Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

STE (squelch tail elimination) explained

Expand Messages
  • Tom ND5Y
    There seems to be some misunderstanding about STE (Squelch Tail Elimination) as implemented in the UV-5R. I have done some testing and experimenting and
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 30, 2014
    • 0 Attachment
      There seems to be some misunderstanding about STE (Squelch Tail
      Elimination) as implemented in the UV-5R.

      I have done some testing and experimenting and figured out exactly what
      Menu 35 STE actually does. Some people believe it is the same PL/CTCSS
      reverse burst as implemented by Motorola, GE, Kenwood, and other
      commercial radios and repeaters. This is not true (except when using
      DCS/CDCSS. See #2 below). Some people believe it is just a short
      duration dead carrier with no tone. This is also not true. Baofeng STE
      is actually a form of anti-PL (or anti-CTCSS) using a tone of
      approximately 55 Hz.

      Here is what is actually happening:

      1. If you are using PL/CTCSS encode or carrier squelch (Menu 13 T-CTCS
      set to any tone or OFF), and Menu 35 STE ON, the radio sends a 55 Hz
      tone for about 1/4 second when you release the PTT key. Setting Menu 35
      STE OFF disables this function.

      2. If you are using DCS/CDCSS encode (Menu 12 T-DCS set to any code)
      and Menu 35 STE ON, the radio sends a 134.4 Hz tone, for about 1/4
      second when you release the PTT key. This is the standard CDCSS turnoff
      code and should be compatible with any system that uses DCS/CDCSS.
      Setting Menu 35 STE OFF disables this function.

      3. The important part:
      The UV-5R receiver responds to the 55 Hz STE tone by muting the receive
      audio (also known as anti-PL or anti-CTCSS). This happens even in
      carrier squelch mode (Menu 10 R-DCS and Menu 11 R-CTCS both OFF). This
      is the important part. Whenever the receiver detects a 55 Hz tone, it
      mutes the audio for as long as the tone is present and for about 1/2 to
      3/4 second after the tone and/or carrier drops. However, it appears that
      if the 55 Hz tone is sent while a CTCSS tone is present, the receiver
      doesn't seem to detect the 55 Hz tone and doesn't mute. This might be
      because of something in my test setup.

      Here is the cool part. If your radio PL/CTCSS encoder or repeater
      controller is capable of custom non-standard tones and you transmit a 55
      Hz tone, then Baofeng radio users will not be able to hear anything at
      all, even if you turn all tones off and have the squelch wide open (set
      to 0) the 55 Hz tone still mutes the receiver. The only way around it is
      to continuously hold down the Monitor (MONI) key. It might be a neat
      thing to do on April 1.

      I don't know how many other manufacturers use this STE method. All of
      the above also applies to a Wouxun KG-UV2D. The only difference is that
      the Wouxun doesn't have a menu option to turn STE off. Maybe it is a
      Chinese industry standard; possibly a relatively new one. I know that
      none of the Alinco, Icom, Kenwood or Yaesu amateur radios I have owned
      in the past had this and I don't think the current ones do or it would
      be advertized.

      Repeaters and commercial receivers with tone decode will mute the
      receiver when they lose the tone; that is if the tone stops or the
      transmitter stops without making a reverse burst. Apparently on some
      systems this happens quickly enough that it fools people into believing
      that Baofeng radios have real PL reverse burst.

      I still have not been able to determine what Menu 36 RP-STE and Menu 37
      RPT-RL do. They don't seem to have any effect at all in any combination
      with Menu 35 STE or in any combination of PL, STE tone or dead carrier.


      Tom ND5Y
    • Scott, KB3JQQ
      3.  The important part: The UV-5R receiver responds to the 55 Hz STE tone by muting the receive audio (also known as anti-PL or anti-CTCSS). This happens
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 30, 2014
      • 0 Attachment
        "3.  The important part:
        The UV-5R receiver responds to the 55 Hz STE tone by muting the receive
        audio (also known as anti-PL or anti-CTCSS). This happens even in
        carrier squelch mode (Menu 10 R-DCS and Menu 11 R-CTCS both OFF). This
        is the important part. Whenever the receiver detects a 55 Hz tone, it
        mutes the audio for as long as the tone is present and for about 1/2 to
        3/4 second after the tone and/or carrier drops. However, it appears that
        if the 55 Hz tone is sent while a CTCSS tone is present, the receiver
        doesn't seem to detect the 55 Hz tone and doesn't mute. This might be
        because of something in my test setup."


        This would explain the temporary dropouts
        myself and others get while using out UV-5Rs.
        My scanner doesn't drop out like my Baofeng.

      • Tom ND5Y
        That s what I think too. Apparently voice audio below 300 Hz can screw with tone decoding. I have a Yaesu FT-7800R with a PC interface that I use for EchoLink.
        Message 3 of 12 , Mar 30, 2014
        • 0 Attachment
          That's what I think too. Apparently voice audio below 300 Hz can screw
          with tone decoding.

          I have a Yaesu FT-7800R with a PC interface that I use for EchoLink. If
          you use the data jack on the 7800 it doesn't filter out transmit or
          receive audio below 300 Hz.

          I have noticed occasional dropouts on both the Baofeng and Wouxun when
          receiving my EchoLink node but not on any of the local ham, commercial,
          or public safety repeaters.

          Tom ND5Y

          > This would explain the temporary dropouts
          > myself and others get while using out UV-5Rs.
          > My scanner doesn't drop out like my Baofeng.
        • Jim Unroe
          ... +1 Thanks Tom. I will try to update the Reference for UV-5R Menus accordingly. Would you give John permission to use some or all of this post on the
          Message 4 of 12 , Mar 30, 2014
          • 0 Attachment
            On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Tom ND5Y <nd5y@...> wrote:
             

            There seems to be some misunderstanding about STE (Squelch Tail
            Elimination) as implemented in the UV-5R.

            I have done some testing and experimenting and figured out exactly what
            Menu 35 STE actually does. Some people believe it is the same PL/CTCSS
            reverse burst as implemented by Motorola, GE, Kenwood, and other
            commercial radios and repeaters. This is not true (except when using
            DCS/CDCSS. See #2 below). Some people believe it is just a short
            duration dead carrier with no tone. This is also not true. Baofeng STE
            is actually a form of anti-PL (or anti-CTCSS) using a tone of
            approximately 55 Hz.

            Here is what is actually happening:

            1. If you are using PL/CTCSS encode or carrier squelch (Menu 13 T-CTCS
            set to any tone or OFF), and Menu 35 STE ON, the radio sends a 55 Hz
            tone for about 1/4 second when you release the PTT key. Setting Menu 35
            STE OFF disables this function.

            2. If you are using DCS/CDCSS encode (Menu 12 T-DCS set to any code)
            and Menu 35 STE ON, the radio sends a 134.4 Hz tone, for about 1/4
            second when you release the PTT key. This is the standard CDCSS turnoff
            code and should be compatible with any system that uses DCS/CDCSS.
            Setting Menu 35 STE OFF disables this function.

            3. The important part:
            The UV-5R receiver responds to the 55 Hz STE tone by muting the receive
            audio (also known as anti-PL or anti-CTCSS). This happens even in
            carrier squelch mode (Menu 10 R-DCS and Menu 11 R-CTCS both OFF). This
            is the important part. Whenever the receiver detects a 55 Hz tone, it
            mutes the audio for as long as the tone is present and for about 1/2 to
            3/4 second after the tone and/or carrier drops. However, it appears that
            if the 55 Hz tone is sent while a CTCSS tone is present, the receiver
            doesn't seem to detect the 55 Hz tone and doesn't mute. This might be
            because of something in my test setup.

            Here is the cool part. If your radio PL/CTCSS encoder or repeater
            controller is capable of custom non-standard tones and you transmit a 55
            Hz tone, then Baofeng radio users will not be able to hear anything at
            all, even if you turn all tones off and have the squelch wide open (set
            to 0) the 55 Hz tone still mutes the receiver. The only way around it is
            to continuously hold down the Monitor (MONI) key. It might be a neat
            thing to do on April 1.

            I don't know how many other manufacturers use this STE method. All of
            the above also applies to a Wouxun KG-UV2D. The only difference is that
            the Wouxun doesn't have a menu option to turn STE off. Maybe it is a
            Chinese industry standard; possibly a relatively new one. I know that
            none of the Alinco, Icom, Kenwood or Yaesu amateur radios I have owned
            in the past had this and I don't think the current ones do or it would
            be advertized.

            Repeaters and commercial receivers with tone decode will mute the
            receiver when they lose the tone; that is if the tone stops or the
            transmitter stops without making a reverse burst. Apparently on some
            systems this happens quickly enough that it fools people into believing
            that Baofeng radios have real PL reverse burst.

            I still have not been able to determine what Menu 36 RP-STE and Menu 37
            RPT-RL do. They don't seem to have any effect at all in any combination
            with Menu 35 STE or in any combination of PL, STE tone or dead carrier.

            Tom ND5Y



            +1

            Thanks Tom. I will try to update the "Reference for UV-5R Menus" accordingly. Would you give John permission to use some or all of this post on the miklor.com website? Good stuff.

            Jim KC9HI
          • Jim Unroe
            ... It is probably also why the Baofeng User s Manual says to only use this feature handheld to handheld and never through a repeater. Jim KC9HI
            Message 5 of 12 , Mar 30, 2014
            • 0 Attachment
              On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Scott, KB3JQQ <kb3jqq@...> wrote:
               

              "3.  The important part:
              The UV-5R receiver responds to the 55 Hz STE tone by muting the receive
              audio (also known as anti-PL or anti-CTCSS). This happens even in
              carrier squelch mode (Menu 10 R-DCS and Menu 11 R-CTCS both OFF). This
              is the important part. Whenever the receiver detects a 55 Hz tone, it
              mutes the audio for as long as the tone is present and for about 1/2 to
              3/4 second after the tone and/or carrier drops. However, it appears that
              if the 55 Hz tone is sent while a CTCSS tone is present, the receiver
              doesn't seem to detect the 55 Hz tone and doesn't mute. This might be
              because of something in my test setup."


              This would explain the temporary dropouts
              myself and others get while using out UV-5Rs.
              My scanner doesn't drop out like my Baofeng.

              It is probably also why the Baofeng User's Manual says to only use this feature handheld to handheld and never through a repeater.

              Jim KC9HI
            • Tom ND5Y
              Yes, but it would be best if other people with service monitors or real test equipment can verify my results. I used PC software (Audacity or GoldWave) to
              Message 6 of 12 , Mar 30, 2014
              • 0 Attachment
                Yes, but it would be best if other people with service monitors or real
                test equipment can verify my results.

                I used PC software (Audacity or GoldWave) to record unfiltered
                un-de-emphasized baseband audio to look at and measure the waveforms and
                to generate .wav files of tones and play them over the radio with EchoLink.

                EchoLink can only use 8 bit 8000 Hz sample rate .wav files and I don't
                know if that is really as good as generating tones with a service monitor.

                Tom ND5Y

                > +1
                >
                > Thanks Tom. I will try to update the "Reference for UV-5R Menus"
                > accordingly. Would you give John permission to use some or all of this
                > post on the miklor.com <http://miklor.com> website? Good stuff.
                >
                > Jim KC9HI
              • Scott, KB3JQQ
                EchoLink can only use 8 bit 8000 Hz sample rate .wav files and I don t know if that is really as good as generating tones with a service monitor. You can play
                Message 7 of 12 , Mar 30, 2014
                • 0 Attachment
                  EchoLink can only use 8 bit 8000 Hz sample rate .wav files and I don't
                  know if that is really as good as generating tones with a service monitor.



                  You can play any wave file through a SignaLink USB.
                  You have to change your output device to USB Audio Codec
                  as the system default or in your media player.

                • R Pryor MAEd CETsr
                  Very Good info Thanks From: Tom ND5Y Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 9:41 AM To: baofeng_uv5r@yahoogroups.com Subject: [baofeng_uv5r] STE (squelch tail
                  Message 8 of 12 , Mar 30, 2014
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Very Good info
                     
                    Thanks
                     
                     
                     
                    From: Tom ND5Y
                    Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 9:41 AM
                    Subject: [baofeng_uv5r] STE (squelch tail elimination) explained
                     
                     

                    There seems to be some misunderstanding about STE (Squelch Tail
                    Elimination) as implemented in the UV-5R.

                    I have done some testing and experimenting and figured out exactly what
                    Menu 35 STE actually does. Some people believe it is the same PL/CTCSS
                    reverse burst as implemented by Motorola, GE, Kenwood, and other
                    commercial radios and repeaters. This is not true (except when using
                    DCS/CDCSS. See #2 below). Some people believe it is just a short
                    duration dead carrier with no tone. This is also not true. Baofeng STE
                    is actually a form of anti-PL (or anti-CTCSS) using a tone of
                    approximately 55 Hz.

                    Here is what is actually happening:

                    1. If you are using PL/CTCSS encode or carrier squelch (Menu 13 T-CTCS
                    set to any tone or OFF), and Menu 35 STE ON, the radio sends a 55 Hz
                    tone for about 1/4 second when you release the PTT key. Setting Menu 35
                    STE OFF disables this function.

                    2. If you are using DCS/CDCSS encode (Menu 12 T-DCS set to any code)
                    and Menu 35 STE ON, the radio sends a 134.4 Hz tone, for about 1/4
                    second when you release the PTT key. This is the standard CDCSS turnoff
                    code and should be compatible with any system that uses DCS/CDCSS.
                    Setting Menu 35 STE OFF disables this function.

                    3. The important part:
                    The UV-5R receiver responds to the 55 Hz STE tone by muting the receive
                    audio (also known as anti-PL or anti-CTCSS). This happens even in
                    carrier squelch mode (Menu 10 R-DCS and Menu 11 R-CTCS both OFF). This
                    is the important part. Whenever the receiver detects a 55 Hz tone, it
                    mutes the audio for as long as the tone is present and for about 1/2 to
                    3/4 second after the tone and/or carrier drops. However, it appears that
                    if the 55 Hz tone is sent while a CTCSS tone is present, the receiver
                    doesn't seem to detect the 55 Hz tone and doesn't mute. This might be
                    because of something in my test setup.

                    Here is the cool part. If your radio PL/CTCSS encoder or repeater
                    controller is capable of custom non-standard tones and you transmit a 55
                    Hz tone, then Baofeng radio users will not be able to hear anything at
                    all, even if you turn all tones off and have the squelch wide open (set
                    to 0) the 55 Hz tone still mutes the receiver. The only way around it is
                    to continuously hold down the Monitor (MONI) key. It might be a neat
                    thing to do on April 1.

                    I don't know how many other manufacturers use this STE method. All of
                    the above also applies to a Wouxun KG-UV2D. The only difference is that
                    the Wouxun doesn't have a menu option to turn STE off. Maybe it is a
                    Chinese industry standard; possibly a relatively new one. I know that
                    none of the Alinco, Icom, Kenwood or Yaesu amateur radios I have owned
                    in the past had this and I don't think the current ones do or it would
                    be advertized.

                    Repeaters and commercial receivers with tone decode will mute the
                    receiver when they lose the tone; that is if the tone stops or the
                    transmitter stops without making a reverse burst. Apparently on some
                    systems this happens quickly enough that it fools people into believing
                    that Baofeng radios have real PL reverse burst.

                    I still have not been able to determine what Menu 36 RP-STE and Menu 37
                    RPT-RL do. They don't seem to have any effect at all in any combination
                    with Menu 35 STE or in any combination of PL, STE tone or dead carrier.

                    Tom ND5Y

                  • nd5y
                    I finally figured out what Menu 36 RP-STE and 37 RPT-RL actually do. Menu 36 RP-STE keeps the receiver off or muted for up to ~1 second after PTT release or in
                    Message 9 of 12 , Nov 6, 2014
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I finally figured out what Menu 36 RP-STE and 37 RPT-RL actually do.

                       Menu 36 RP-STE keeps the receiver off or muted for up to ~1 second after PTT release or in other words it increases transmit to receive turnaround time.

                      Menu 37 RPT-RL disables CTCSS or DCS decoding for up to ~1 second after the delay time set by Menu 36 RP-STE. If no receive tone is set then Menu 36 has no effect.

                      The settings are OFF and 1-10 (approximately 100 millisecond increments)
                    • nd5y
                      Correction. ... It should have been more like: Menu 37 RPT-RL disables CTCSS or DCS decoding for up to ~1 second after the delay time set by Menu 36 RP-STE. If
                      Message 10 of 12 , Nov 7, 2014
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Correction.
                        Yesterday I posted the following:
                        > Menu 37 RPT-RL disables CTCSS or DCS decoding for up to ~1 second after
                        the delay time set by Menu 36 RP-STE.
                        > If no receive tone is set then
                        Menu 36 has no effect.
                        > The settings are OFF and 1-10 (approximately 100 millisecond increments)

                        It should have been more like:
                        Menu 37 RPT-RL disables CTCSS or DCS decoding for up to ~1 second after the delay time set by Menu 36 RP-STE.
                        If no receive tone is set then Menu 37 has no effect.
                        Menu 37 Settings 1 and 2 appear to be the same as OFF and have no effect. Settings 3 to 10 increase the decoder disable time from ~50 mS to ~1 S.

                        Tom
                      • Jim Unroe
                        Thanks Tom. I was out of town when I read the first post and thought it might have had a typo. I was going to ask about it when I got back. I ll try to find
                        Message 11 of 12 , Nov 7, 2014
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Thanks Tom. I was out of town when I read the first post and thought it might have had a typo. I was going to ask about it when I got back. I'll try to find time to incorporate this info into the Reference for UV-5R/UV-82/BF-F8HP Menus

                          Thanks again,
                          Jim KC9HI

                          On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 1:45 PM, nd5y@... [baofeng_uv5r] <baofeng_uv5r@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                           

                          Correction.
                          Yesterday I posted the following:
                          > Menu 37 RPT-RL disables CTCSS or DCS decoding for up to ~1 second after the delay time set by Menu 36 RP-STE.
                          > If no receive tone is set then Menu 36 has no effect.
                          > The settings are OFF and 1-10 (approximately 100 millisecond increments)

                          It should have been more like:
                          Menu 37 RPT-RL disables CTCSS or DCS decoding for up to ~1 second after the delay time set by Menu 36 RP-STE.
                          If no receive tone is set then Menu 37 has no effect.
                          Menu 37 Settings 1 and 2 appear to be the same as OFF and have no effect. Settings 3 to 10 increase the decoder disable time from ~50 mS to ~1 S.

                          Tom


                        • Tom Consodine ND5Y
                          You re welcome. I might add that those appeared to be the same on both a UV-5R with BFS311 firmware and UV-82 with B82S25 so it is probably the same for all of
                          Message 12 of 12 , Nov 7, 2014
                          • 0 Attachment
                            You're welcome. I might add that those appeared to be the same on both a
                            UV-5R with BFS311 firmware and UV-82 with B82S25 so it is probably the
                            same for all of them.

                            Tom

                            On 11/07/2014 18:31, Jim Unroe rock.unroe@... [baofeng_uv5r] wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Thanks Tom. I was out of town when I read the first post and thought it
                            > might have had a typo. I was going to ask about it when I got back. I'll
                            > try to find time to incorporate this info into the Reference for
                            > UV-5R/UV-82/BF-F8HP Menus
                            >
                            > Thanks again,
                            > Jim KC9HI
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.