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Re: [bafuture] Gregory Stock at Foresight gathering …

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  • Walter Truett Anderson
    Stock must be working with a very limited definition of augmentation. After all, what are eyeglasses and hearing aids? Walt
    Message 1 of 3 , May 2, 2002
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      Stock must be working with a very limited definition of augmentation.
      After all, what are eyeglasses and hearing aids?
    • mark finnern
      Hi Walt, I think this is Gregory’s argument: All these devices will get so small, that you won’t need and want any other augmentation, especially no
      Message 2 of 3 , May 3, 2002
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        Hi Walt,

        I think this is Gregory�s argument: All these devices
        will get so small, that you won�t need and want any
        other augmentation, especially no modification to your
        brain. Well, how many people do laser eye surgery
        every year, although very small contact lenses are

        Just a thought, Mark.

        --- Walter Truett Anderson <waltt@...> wrote:
        > Stock must be working with a very limited definition
        > of augmentation.
        > After all, what are eyeglasses and hearing aids?
        > Walt

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      • Joseph Anderson
        The link to fybord definition below, was unplugged , however I found this excerpt: A functional cyborg ( should we call it a fyborg? funorg? fuborg? ) may be
        Message 3 of 3 , May 3, 2002
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          The link to fybord definition below, was "unplugged", however I found this excerpt:

          "A functional cyborg ( should we call it a fyborg? funorg? fuborg? ) may be defined as a biological organism functionally supplemented with technological extensions. If you do not pay attention, the stream of technological supplements may turn you into a functional cyborg before you notice it. "

          Located on the following link:

          So by this definition...Stevie Wonder is extended via keyboard, harmonica and musical notes, not to mention the record contract that got him in prime time.

          Walter Karlos via Moog extending himself with Moog synthesizer & pure sound, however considering his sex change, er, um..... ,well.... I have my limits!

          Then too..Johann Sebastian Bach and Organ, Elie Wiezel extended by Scripture and Ethics...but these folk extend knowlege, species, and understanding, perspective.

          The focus you have here with "fyborgs", "Cyborgs", Brain Implants et other orgasms.. is on "self-ism" and not to extend anything but the vain, purile, overly self-indulgent species, Mr & Ms. Sapiens a la Homo, and extend probably not much further than the illegal block implemented by the US soccer team during the Women's Soccer Playoffs!

          Anyhooo this all seems rather silly..fighting over definitions from side-stage Johnnies..who've never been in an operating room ( from the other side of the scapel, please!) not to mention trying to get silicon integrated with neurons.

          ...not to good for the victim being experimented on or the life form declared by society to be worthy of experimentation on. We'll get back to that next email. ( Via the experiments done on the Chinese by the Japanese during the 40's and some Nazi fun in the labs with P.O.W.'s and the modern day Federalization of Felonies, circa 1997!)

          For the front liners,....read the attached entry from the Journal of Biological Cybernetics (pdf format).
          This gives a SOBER look at where we really are with the integration of Silicon and neurons.

          Moreover, has anyone talked to their local Neurosurgeon, lately? I shamefully admit, I talked to 3 (and worked for one) at Harvard Medical School 12 years ago.
          Extremely high insurance rates. Know why?
          Cause a good neurosurgeon losses 65%+ of his patients!
          Lots leave the field because of these depressing aspects, or so the report went, back in 1990.

          ...No, I didn't say Monkeys
          ...No, I didn't say Snails ( as with the attached article)

          Quotation of Willy Loman: Death of a Salesman:
          "A man isn't a piece of fruit...you don't squeeze out the juice and throw away the peel!"

          Oh..you say by the future we'll have it down to as safe as Laser Eye Surgery.
          Since that last analogy to laser eye surgery...I've found 40 articles on how unsafe it is and the large number of people who can't see well at night, in fog ,suffer glare blinding vision, headaches, migraines and (giggle) need glasses after they have the surgery. So....I'll just say it'll be as safe as all of us THOUGHT laser eye surgery was....?

          As for up-2-date, practical look at interfacing (with the Ethics at least in the last paragraph), which is better than most....

          I cite the same URL mentioned below but truncated up 2 levels:
          I'd suggest reading:



          Last but not least has anyone focused on why a lot of Virtual Reality7 training went down the tube? (Not to mention a certain VR and Computer center that went outta business in downtown Palo Alto?????

          It's called Virtual Reality Sickness:
          U.S. Army Research Institute for the Behavioral and Social Sciences (ARI)
          Link below is a report by the
          I keep having these sardonic visions of walking into a cafe much like the one at the beginning of "A Clockwork Orange", we'll call it Starbucks, for the hell of it.

          Lying around are 45-55 bodies on sensory overload trying to "dry-out" as it were, cause their implants have bombarded their sensory neurons with more information than they could handle and neuronal deterioration is setting in. A sort of Senroy Progeira. Along with a kind of sensory "slow down" due to a "plack" type substance building up on neurons and impeding the chemo-electric flow.

          Starbucks in Conjunction with the FDA now serves, for lack of a better word "downers"..along with the normal caffein fix it serves now to the "Nicofein" crowd!

          Be a goo apparachnik and Peet Meskovich, comrad",
          Daludid with the masses and download, etc.

          Here endeth, j.s.anderson comments...........Mr."I've seen the future and it's yesterdays mistakes with more SnakeOil & Gullibility, is done for the day.............................................................

          --- Jamais Cascio <cascio@...> wrote:
          >> From: Walter Truett Anderson <waltt@...>
          >>Subject: Re: Gregory Stock at Foresight gathering =85
          >>Stock must be working with a very limited definition of augmentation.
          >>After all, what are eyeglasses and hearing aids?
          >He does, although I suspect he'd call it "precise" rather than=20
          >"limited." For Stock, external modification are an example of what he=20
          >calls "fyborgism," as contrasted with internal augmentations (or=20
          >"cyborgism"). Fyborg is apparently a term that's been around for=20
          >almost a decade (see, for example:
          >which dates to 1995), and refers to biological organisms with=20
          >functional upgrades using external devices. Such devices could=20
          >include glasses, hearing aids, Palm pilots, pagers -- anything that=20
          >extends our natural abilities beyond what our biology alone can=20
          >He draws this contrast in order to shoot down the notion that we'll=20
          >be plugging chips into our heads or becoming one with computer=20
          >systems any time soon (contrary to Ray Kurzweil or Rodney Brooks, who=20
          >take very different approaches). He makes the argument that=20
          >regardless of how nifty our computers are, we still know so little=20
          >about the workings of the brain (or even the nervous system, really)=20
          >that the notion that we'll have progressed to the point of brain=20
          >implants in the next 20 years is borderline ludicrous.
          >The example of the remote controlled rat is illustrative. When you=20
          >look at how the system works, you find that it's (a) sending a signal=20
          >down the whisker receptors to give a directional cue, and (b)=20
          >stimulating the pleasure center of the rat's brain when the cue is=20
          >followed. Neither of these neurological methods are breakthroughs --=20
          >they've both been done for years, probably decades by now. The=20
          >difference, in this case, is that the device sending the signal is=20
          >now miniaturized sufficiently to be carried on the rat's back,=20
          >instead of being at the other end of thick cables. The remote control=20
          >rat is interesting, but is not much of an advance over earlier=20
          >knowledge of neurophysiology.
          >I tend to think that this perspective is fairly persuasive, in that=20
          >even rapid advances in nanotechnology-based information systems won't=20
          >make superhuman cyborgs if we still don't understand the complexity=20
          >of brain function. Will we ever? Almost certainly. Will we in the=20
          >next decade or two? There would have to be a fairly significant=20
          >breakthrough in the field to make that possible.
          >Jamais Cascio
          >"If you can talk brilliantly enough about a problem, it can create the
          >consoling illusion that it has been mastered."
          > Stanley Kubrick
          >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=

          --- "markfinnern" <markfinnern@...> wrote:
          >Gregory Stock at Foresight gathering =85
          >Hi everyone,=20
          >So I have been to the Foresight gathering last weekend. (See:=20
          >And big surprise, one of the speakers was Gregory Stock. May be I was=20
          >tired, but to me he's presentation was a bit boring. I am one third=20
          >into his book: "Redesigning Humans: Our Inevitable Genetic Future"=20
          >which we want to talk about at our next Salon and so far it is=20
          >interesting and well written.=20
          >He reiterated that he does not see people getting uploaded (As in our=20
          >brain mapped and then recreated within a computer), because our=20
          >biology is essential to us. He is also questioning whether people=20
          >will augment their body. I guess he has not been to San Francisco=20
          >lately. What body manipulations are happening here already is quite=20
          >amazing. (see: http://larsplace.com/humor/images_humor/piercing.jpg)=20
          >One more story from the `Wow bin': Scientist have found a way to=20
          >control the movement of rats:=20=20
          >See you on the 17th of May, Mark.=20
          >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=

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