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  • bafuture@attbi.com
    Little post from Robert: Fellow Futurists As I mentioned to some of you at the last BAFuturist meeting, I am now in possession of the future of automobiles
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 13, 2002
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      Little post from Robert:

      Fellow Futurists

      As I mentioned to some of you at the last BAFuturist meeting, I am now in possession of the future of automobiles (well, the near future. They wouldn't sell me a fuel-cell-powered car) As of a week ago, I am the proud owner of a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid. I am deeply impressed by the technology and enjoy telling everybody about it. As my friends are now starting to avoid me for this reason, I figure I'll have to cast my net wider and will be bringing it along to the next BAFuturist meeting, where it will be available for show and tell and test rides and the like. Hope to see you there!

      Robert

      Here Edmunds raves about the car. [1]

      (I can hardly wait for the ride to the Futurist Salon next Friday :-)

      [1] http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/49260/article.html
    • Chris Phoenix
      Futurists should note that the Toyota Prius has been sold in the US for a couple of years now (and in Japan for several years before that). The Edmunds
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 13, 2002
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        Futurists should note that the Toyota Prius has been sold in the US for
        a couple of years now (and in Japan for several years before that). The
        Edmunds article doesn't mention the Prius at all. I have not seen the
        Civic, but I was not at all impressed by the Honda Insight. The Insight
        is built way too light, and is only a two-seater and is cramped even
        so. Unlike either Honda car, the Prius engine actually shuts off *while
        you are driving* if it can save fuel that way. Also, the Prius is a
        *Super* Ultra Low Emission Vehicle, which the Civic is not. I've been
        quite happy with my Prius. I tell people, "The Insight is a toy; the
        Prius is a car." And, "The Insight is a gas car with an electric torque
        boost; the Prius is an electric car with a gas recharge."

        At this point, I don't think either car is futuristic; I agree with
        Robert that real futurism at this point requires fuel cells. So if
        Robert wants to defend his car, he should probably have the last word.

        Chris

        bafuture@... wrote:
        >
        > Little post from Robert:
        >
        > Fellow Futurists
        >
        > As I mentioned to some of you at the last BAFuturist meeting, I am now in possession of the future of automobiles (well, the near future. They wouldn't sell me a fuel-cell-powered car) As of a week ago, I am the proud owner of a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid. I am deeply impressed by the technology and enjoy telling everybody about it. As my friends are now starting to avoid me for this reason, I figure I'll have to cast my net wider and will be bringing it along to the next BAFuturist meeting, where it will be available for show and tell and test rides and the like. Hope to see you there!
        >
        > Robert
        >
        > Here Edmunds raves about the car. [1]
        >
        > (I can hardly wait for the ride to the Futurist Salon next Friday :-)
        >
        > [1] http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/49260/article.html
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > bafuture-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

        --
        Chris Phoenix cphoenix@... http://www.best.com/~cphoenix
        Interests: nanotechnology, dyslexia, caving, filk, SF, patent
        reform, stained glass, hang gliding
      • markfinnern
        Hi Chris, If you bring your Prius to the Salon next Friday, we can duke it out once and for all right there in the parking lot of the Hillsdale shopping
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 14, 2002
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          Hi Chris,

          If you bring your Prius to the Salon next Friday, we can duke it out
          once and for all right there in the parking lot of the Hillsdale
          shopping center.

          Come gassed up and we do 10 rounds each, measure how long it took and
          also top off your tanks to find out, which one was less thirsty :-)

          The only bummer is, that I can't organize the VW one liter car for
          that competition:
          http://www.news24.com/News24/Wheels24/News/0,3999,2-15-
          47_1168834,00.html

          One liter per 100km, I leave that up to you as a little calculation
          exercise how many miles per gallon that is, but it beats the Prius as
          well as the Civic hands down with a conventional diesel engine. Given
          it is not a 'real' car.

          One interesting side note is that the concept of two passengers
          sitting behind each other in a car is not new. In the late forties
          early fifties there was the Messerschmitt Kabinenroller (Cabin
          scooter)doing exactly that:
          http://www.pcsystems.com/messerschmitt/mess.html

          Here a link to another story of the 1 liter car. (There it is
          mentioned how many miles per gallon that is. Check, whether your
          calculation was right.)
          http://www.vwvortex.com/news/04_02/04_16/index.shtml

          All the best and see you all on Friday, Mark.

          --- In bafuture@y..., Chris Phoenix <cphoenix@b...> wrote:
          > Futurists should note that the Toyota Prius has been sold in the US
          for
          > a couple of years now (and in Japan for several years before
          that). The
          > Edmunds article doesn't mention the Prius at all. I have not seen
          the
          > Civic, but I was not at all impressed by the Honda Insight. The
          Insight
          > is built way too light, and is only a two-seater and is cramped even
          > so. Unlike either Honda car, the Prius engine actually shuts off
          *while
          > you are driving* if it can save fuel that way. Also, the Prius is a
          > *Super* Ultra Low Emission Vehicle, which the Civic is not. I've
          been
          > quite happy with my Prius. I tell people, "The Insight is a toy;
          the
          > Prius is a car." And, "The Insight is a gas car with an electric
          torque
          > boost; the Prius is an electric car with a gas recharge."
          >
          > At this point, I don't think either car is futuristic; I agree with
          > Robert that real futurism at this point requires fuel cells. So if
          > Robert wants to defend his car, he should probably have the last
          word.
          >
          > Chris
          >
          > bafuture@a... wrote:
          > >
          > > Little post from Robert:
          > >
          > > Fellow Futurists
          > >
          > > As I mentioned to some of you at the last BAFuturist meeting, I
          am now in possession of the future of automobiles (well, the near
          future. They wouldn't sell me a fuel-cell-powered car) As of a week
          ago, I am the proud owner of a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid. I am deeply
          impressed by the technology and enjoy telling everybody about it. As
          my friends are now starting to avoid me for this reason, I figure
          I'll have to cast my net wider and will be bringing it along to the
          next BAFuturist meeting, where it will be available for show and tell
          and test rides and the like. Hope to see you there!
          > >
          > > Robert
          > >
          > > Here Edmunds raves about the car. [1]
          > >
          > > (I can hardly wait for the ride to the Futurist Salon next
          Friday :-)
          > >
          > > [1]
          http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/49260/article.html
          > >
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > bafuture-unsubscribe@y...
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          > --
          > Chris Phoenix cphoenix@b... http://www.best.com/~cphoenix
          > Interests: nanotechnology, dyslexia, caving, filk, SF, patent
          > reform, stained glass, hang gliding
        • Troy Gardner
          ... Though later, many recumbant motorcycle designs had dual passengers inline with each other, one still being produced is the very cool ecomobile. Averages
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 14, 2002
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            > One interesting side note is that the concept of two passengers
            > sitting behind each other in a car is not new. In the late forties
            > early fifties there was the Messerschmitt Kabinenroller (Cabin
            > scooter)doing exactly that:
            > http://www.pcsystems.com/messerschmitt/mess.html

            Though later, many recumbant motorcycle designs had dual passengers inline with
            each other, one still being produced is the very cool ecomobile. Averages
            around 50-60mpg, and has acceleration characteristics similar to many road
            sportscars. Which along with the ability to lay it all the way over and
            recover, I would wager is more fun to drive than any of the aforementioned.
            http://www.peraves.ch/ndexe.htm




            __________________________________________________
            Do You Yahoo!?
            Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
            http://autos.yahoo.com
          • c Wildin
            ... You really want to drive the Prius? . . . is this a joke for the next meeting? RSVP Ceis
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 15, 2002
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              on 7/14/02 10:55 PM, markfinnern at markfinnern@... wrote:

              > Hi Chris,
              >
              > If you bring your Prius to the Salon next Friday, we can duke it out
              > once and for all right there in the parking lot of the Hillsdale
              > shopping center.
              >
              > Come gassed up and we do 10 rounds each, measure how long it took and
              > also top off your tanks to find out, which one was less thirsty :-)
              >
              > The only bummer is, that I can't organize the VW one liter car for
              > that competition:
              > http://www.news24.com/News24/Wheels24/News/0,3999,2-15-
              > 47_1168834,00.html
              >
              > One liter per 100km, I leave that up to you as a little calculation
              > exercise how many miles per gallon that is, but it beats the Prius as
              > well as the Civic hands down with a conventional diesel engine. Given
              > it is not a 'real' car.
              >
              > One interesting side note is that the concept of two passengers
              > sitting behind each other in a car is not new. In the late forties
              > early fifties there was the Messerschmitt Kabinenroller (Cabin
              > scooter)doing exactly that:
              > http://www.pcsystems.com/messerschmitt/mess.html
              >
              > Here a link to another story of the 1 liter car. (There it is
              > mentioned how many miles per gallon that is. Check, whether your
              > calculation was right.)
              > http://www.vwvortex.com/news/04_02/04_16/index.shtml
              >
              > All the best and see you all on Friday, Mark.
              >
              > --- In bafuture@y..., Chris Phoenix <cphoenix@b...> wrote:
              >> Futurists should note that the Toyota Prius has been sold in the US
              > for
              >> a couple of years now (and in Japan for several years before
              > that). The
              >> Edmunds article doesn't mention the Prius at all. I have not seen
              > the
              >> Civic, but I was not at all impressed by the Honda Insight. The
              > Insight
              >> is built way too light, and is only a two-seater and is cramped even
              >> so. Unlike either Honda car, the Prius engine actually shuts off
              > *while
              >> you are driving* if it can save fuel that way. Also, the Prius is a
              >> *Super* Ultra Low Emission Vehicle, which the Civic is not. I've
              > been
              >> quite happy with my Prius. I tell people, "The Insight is a toy;
              > the
              >> Prius is a car." And, "The Insight is a gas car with an electric
              > torque
              >> boost; the Prius is an electric car with a gas recharge."
              >>
              >> At this point, I don't think either car is futuristic; I agree with
              >> Robert that real futurism at this point requires fuel cells. So if
              >> Robert wants to defend his car, he should probably have the last
              > word.
              >>
              >> Chris
              >>
              >> bafuture@a... wrote:
              >>>
              >>> Little post from Robert:
              >>>
              >>> Fellow Futurists
              >>>
              >>> As I mentioned to some of you at the last BAFuturist meeting, I
              > am now in possession of the future of automobiles (well, the near
              > future. They wouldn't sell me a fuel-cell-powered car) As of a week
              > ago, I am the proud owner of a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid. I am deeply
              > impressed by the technology and enjoy telling everybody about it. As
              > my friends are now starting to avoid me for this reason, I figure
              > I'll have to cast my net wider and will be bringing it along to the
              > next BAFuturist meeting, where it will be available for show and tell
              > and test rides and the like. Hope to see you there!
              >>>
              >>> Robert
              >>>
              >>> Here Edmunds raves about the car. [1]
              >>>
              >>> (I can hardly wait for the ride to the Futurist Salon next
              > Friday :-)
              >>>
              >>> [1]
              > http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/49260/article.html
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              >>> bafuture-unsubscribe@y...
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >>
              >> --
              >> Chris Phoenix cphoenix@b... http://www.best.com/~cphoenix
              >> Interests: nanotechnology, dyslexia, caving, filk, SF, patent
              >> reform, stained glass, hang gliding
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > bafuture-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              You really want to drive the Prius? . . . is this a joke for the next
              meeting? RSVP Ceis
            • Ooo0001@aol.com
              ... Or get yourself a motorcycle. A fraction of the price of a high end sports car, much better gas mileage, and nearly twice the acceleration. And leaning
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 15, 2002
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                In a message dated Mon, 15 Jul 2002 1:27:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, Troy Gardner <thegreyman@...> writes:

                >> One interesting side note is that the concept of two passengers
                >> sitting behind each other in a car is not new. In the late forties
                >> early fifties there was the Messerschmitt Kabinenroller (Cabin
                >> scooter)doing exactly that:
                >> http://www.pcsystems.com/messerschmitt/mess.html
                >
                >Though later, many recumbant motorcycle designs had dual passengers inline with
                >each other, one still being produced is the very cool ecomobile. Averages
                >around 50-60mpg, and has acceleration characteristics similar to many road
                >sportscars.  Which along with the ability to lay it all the way over and
                >recover, I would wager is more fun to drive than any of the aforementioned.
                >http://www.peraves.ch/ndexe.htm

                Or get yourself a motorcycle. A fraction of the price of a high end sports car, much better gas mileage, and nearly twice the acceleration. And leaning over is de riguer! B-) Okay, cargo capacity and weather protection aren't great, but...

                Derek
              • bafuture@attbi.com
                US planning to recruit one in 24 Americans as citizen spies [1]. This article scares me. It reminds me not only of the East German Stasi, but also of the
                Message 7 of 12 , Jul 16, 2002
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                  US planning to recruit one in 24 Americans as citizen spies [1].

                  This article scares me. It reminds me not only of the East German Stasi, but also of the Blockwarts, (neighborhood watch dogs usually in brown shirts) during the Third Reich, my mother told me about.

                  "It was a time when everyone was scared, no one would trust anybody, and in the night they would come and take people out of their houses ... "

                  One of my experiences in East Germany also come to my mind: On one of my few visits to East Berlin. I was not very far from the wall and I asked a couple in my age if and were there is a place to go dancing that evening. We talked for a bit and the guy goes behind a house to take a leak. All in a sudden a car drives up three men jump out one running behind the house to check what is happening there.

                  They examined our papers and let us go after a while. I never forget the poor couple, they were very disturbed by the fact that this incident would end up in their file and that they shouldn't have been so close to the wall and that they should not have contacted/spoken with someone from the West ...

                  Scary stuff and food for thought for our 'Transparent Society' theme this Friday at the Futurist Salon [2].

                  [1] http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/14/1026185141232.html
                  [2] http://finnern.com/future
                • bafuture@attbi.com
                  Why privacy is a good thing ... [1]. Another little piece as a preparation for this Friday s Salon from Brian Templeton, about why privacy is something to
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jul 17, 2002
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                    Why privacy is a good thing ... [1].

                    Another little piece as a preparation for this Friday's Salon from Brian Templeton, about why privacy is something to treasure [2].

                    [1] http://www.templetons.com/brad/watched.html
                    [2] http://www.templetons.com/brad/watched.html
                  • wayne radinsky
                    Maybe I am missing something, but it appears to me like [1] and [2] are the same link... ? ... __________________________________________________ Do You
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jul 17, 2002
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                      Maybe I am missing something, but it appears to me like
                      [1] and [2] are the same link... ?

                      --- bafuture@... wrote:
                      > Why privacy is a good thing ... [1].
                      >
                      > Another little piece as a preparation for this Friday's Salon
                      > from Brian Templeton, about why privacy is something to
                      > treasure [2].
                      >
                      > [1] http://www.templetons.com/brad/watched.html
                      > [2] http://www.templetons.com/brad/watched.html
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      __________________________________________________
                      Do You Yahoo!?
                      Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
                      http://autos.yahoo.com
                    • mark finnern
                      Hi Wayne and other Futurists, You are not missing anything, the links are identical. As I wrote in my post last Saturday [1], the mails with the Subject: New
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jul 17, 2002
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                        Hi Wayne and other Futurists,

                        You are not missing anything, the links are identical.


                        As I wrote in my post last Saturday [1], the mails
                        with the Subject:
                        "New post at http://finnern.com/future ..." are
                        generated from an entry at that website.

                        If you check the post there: [2] you will find, that
                        the title as well as some part of the text is a link.

                        Both of these links point to the same story, which is
                        good at the website, but the transfer to email program
                        does not recognize that the links are identical and
                        therefore puts them both at the end.

                        Sorry for the confusion. Also my apologies for the
                        post from yesterday that got sent out again today. Not
                        sure as of yet why that happened.

                        Hope this clears things up, Mark.

                        [1] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bafuture/message/119
                        [2] http://finnern.com/future/2002/07/17.html#a121

                        --- wayne radinsky <spodware@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Maybe I am missing something, but it appears to me
                        > like
                        > [1] and [2] are the same link... ?
                        >
                        > --- bafuture@... wrote:
                        > > Why privacy is a good thing ... [1].
                        > >
                        > > Another little piece as a preparation for this
                        > Friday's Salon
                        > > from Brian Templeton, about why privacy is
                        > something to
                        > > treasure [2].
                        > >
                        > > [1] http://www.templetons.com/brad/watched.html
                        > > [2] http://www.templetons.com/brad/watched.html
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        > __________________________________________________
                        > Do You Yahoo!?
                        > Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
                        > http://autos.yahoo.com
                        >


                        __________________________________________________
                        Do You Yahoo!?
                        Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
                        http://autos.yahoo.com
                      • c Wildin
                        ... I know that this is an new reply to an old post but I ve had two Toyota Prius s in the past 2 years. The demise of the lst because I was broadsided by a
                        Message 11 of 12 , Aug 27, 2002
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                          on 7/13/02 1:25 PM, bafuture@... at bafuture@... wrote:

                          > Little post from Robert:
                          >
                          > Fellow Futurists
                          >
                          > As I mentioned to some of you at the last BAFuturist meeting, I am now in
                          > possession of the future of automobiles (well, the near future. They wouldn't
                          > sell me a fuel-cell-powered car) As of a week ago, I am the proud owner of a
                          > 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid. I am deeply impressed by the technology and enjoy
                          > telling everybody about it. As my friends are now starting to avoid me for
                          > this reason, I figure I'll have to cast my net wider and will be bringing it
                          > along to the next BAFuturist meeting, where it will be available for show and
                          > tell and test rides and the like. Hope to see you there!
                          >
                          > Robert
                          >
                          > Here Edmunds raves about the car. [1]
                          >
                          > (I can hardly wait for the ride to the Futurist Salon next Friday :-)
                          >
                          > [1] http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/49260/article.html
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > bafuture-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                          >
                          I know that this is an new reply to an old post but I've had two Toyota
                          Prius's in the past 2 years. The demise of the lst because I was broadsided
                          by a nut running a red light. . . I suffered very little damage but the car
                          was totaled. I was so impressed that I waited (for the other insur. co to
                          pay and buy me a new Toyota Prius (2001). I love it, especially the mileage
                          and the trunk space! I now realize that the new Toyota Rav 4 (4 wheel
                          drive) is all electric. . . I think I'll have to see because I'm looking
                          down the road for an alternative vehicle that's a mini RV so I can go
                          traveling!
                          cheers, Ceis
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