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FR - Big Agnes Clearview Air Pad - Sheila

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  • S
    Hi Mark, Here s my FR for the Clearview Air Pad. I see on the admin page that the due dates are messed up. This test is supposed to be done together with the
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 23, 2008
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      Hi Mark,

      Here's my FR for the Clearview Air Pad. I see on the admin page that the due dates are
      messed up. This test is supposed to be done together with the Elbert bag. I'll write a note
      to Leesa after this.

      Sheila


      http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/test/TESTS/FR%20-
      %20Big%20Agnes%20Clearview%20pad%20-%20Sheila/

      http://tinyurl.com/3favb8


      Field Report: August 23, 2008
      FIELD CONDITIONS
      I have so far used the Big Agnes Clearview Air Pad for a total of five nights, including one
      night at home, one night near a trailhead and three nights on a trail. The pad only held air
      on the first four of these five nights.

      I would never normally include a night at home in my report, but since this product was so
      short-lived, I'll throw that extra day in here for Big Agnes' benefit. That night there was a
      big wildfire nearby, so the house was all closed up and it was too hot upstairs to sleep. I
      used this pad with my Big Agnes Elbert sleeping bag on the carpeted floor. The
      temperature was about 70 F (21 C).

      I used the Clearview for one night at a walk-in campground and three nights of
      backpacking on California's Lost Coast. I paired the Clearview with a Big Agnes Elbert
      sleeping bag and slept inside a tent. The elevation was near sea level and the overnight
      low temperature was about 50 F (10 C).

      FIELD RESULTS
      I thought the Clearview pad fit perfectly with my Elbert sleeping bag. Afterall, they were
      designed for that purpose. When I put them together for my Initial Report, I noticed that
      one channel of the nine air channels making up the Clearview was popping up. I just
      assumed that wouldn't happen when I laid down on the pad overnight. Instead, what
      happened was that one or two of the channels along the side popped up, rolling me off
      the pad. I don't know whether the pad is too wide or the pocket on the sleeping bag is too
      narrow, but they don't fit together well, making it hard to sleep on this pad. The thickness
      of the pad did mean I got some good sleep for the moments when I was able to stay on
      the pad without rolling off. In order to keep the pad from rolling me off of it, I tried not
      inflating it all the way one night, but then I could feel my hips digging into the ground, so
      that wasn't comfortable either.

      The rolling problem was nothing compared with the atrocious durability of this pad. All
      that worrying about popping this pad was for naught. It lasted exactly four nights before
      the welded seams just slipped apart. No, I didn't tug on the seams hoping to find potato
      chips inside. And no, I don't weigh several tons. I also didn't jump on the pad. But I did
      have an absolutely terrible night trying to sleep on the cold, hard ground. Because of this, I
      refuse to ever take this pad backpacking again. Even at just 12.8 oz (363 g), it's a waste of
      pack weight and space because it doesn't work. Also, at US $10.74 per usable night, this is
      an incredibly overpriced sleeping pad.


      Here's the hole where the welded seams pulled apart.

      I went back to the Big Agnes website to see what I should do about this busted pad. The
      website has a blurb about how every pad comes with a repair kit. That's a lie. This pad
      doesn't have a repair kit. Besides, it looks as thought the seams are loosening around
      other parts of the pad, so I cannot trust that this pad won't come apart again if I did try to
      glue the hole shut.


      The seams are coming apart all around the pad. The hole is on the upper left corner, but
      the seams are also pulling apart across the top and side of the pad as shown in this photo.

      I contacted Big Agnes customer service by email and was told that their lifetime warranty
      covers anything not caused by wear and tear or damage. Certainly four nights of careful
      use should be fine under their warranty. However, I'm very angry at having to mail this pad
      back to Big Agnes on my dime. I had been extremely careful with this pad and the hole
      that developed was entirely Big Agnes' (not my) fault. What a waste of shipping expenses
      and hydrocarbons!

      It has been two weeks since I mailed back the pad, but I haven't heard anything from Big
      Agnes yet. I will tell you what happened in my next report.

      SUMMARY
      I would most definitely not recommend this pad. Backpacking with the Big Agnes
      Clearview Air Pad was a HUGE mistake. I spent an absolutely miserable night on the hard
      ground and still had to carry the useless 13.4 oz (380 g) of materials on my back. Big
      Agnes' craftsmanship is deplorable. My Clearview busted along the seams after four nights
      of use. When it did hold air, it didn't fit properly with a sleeping bag it was designed to be
      used with. It's time for Big Agnes to drop the Clearview Air Pad or make some major
      manufacturing and design changes.

      PROS
      None!
      CONS
      Doesn't fit well with Big Agnes Elbert sleeping bag (designed to be used together), makes
      me roll off of it
      Fell apart at the seams after four nights of use
      Not worth the money, weight or pack space
      REMARKS
      This concludes my Field Report. My Long-Term Report will be available in November
      2008. Big Agnes and BackpackGearTest.org are providing me with the opportunity to test
      the Clearview Air Pad.
    • Leesa J
      Just want to clarify - the dates are not the same for the two Big Agnes tests. Leesa ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 28, 2008
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        Just want to clarify - the dates are not the same for the two Big Agnes
        tests.

        Leesa

        On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 3:02 PM, S <geosheila@...> wrote:

        > Hi Mark,
        >
        > Here's my FR for the Clearview Air Pad. I see on the admin page that the
        > due dates are
        > messed up. This test is supposed to be done together with the Elbert bag.
        > I'll write a note
        > to Leesa after this.
        >
        > Sheila
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • mwood_bgt@markandkc.net
        Sheila, It appears that your FR for the Big Agnes Clearview Air Pad has been removed from the Test area. Could you please re-upload it and I ll complete your
        Message 3 of 15 , Sep 1, 2008
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          Sheila,

          It appears that your FR for the Big Agnes Clearview Air Pad has been
          removed from the Test area.

          Could you please re-upload it and I'll complete your edits!

          Thanks,

          Mark Wood
        • S
          Hi Mark, It seems that they d like these two Big Agnes reports at different times. I will only be using the products together, but the report will be sitting
          Message 4 of 15 , Sep 1, 2008
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            Hi Mark,

            It seems that they'd like these two Big Agnes reports at different times. I will only be using
            the products together, but the report will be sitting on my computer for another couple of
            weeks. Sorry for the confusion, I didn't realize the dates were so distant for the two
            reports. I'll upload this one again in a couple of weeks.

            Sheila


            --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, mwood_bgt@... wrote:
            >
            > Sheila,
            >
            > It appears that your FR for the Big Agnes Clearview Air Pad has been
            > removed from the Test area.
            >
            > Could you please re-upload it and I'll complete your edits!
            >
            > Thanks,
            >
            > Mark Wood
            >
          • Mark Wood
            Works for me Sheila! I ll look for it! ... From: S To: Backpackgeartesters ReplyTo: Backpackgeartesters Subject: [backpackgeartesters] Re: Attn Sheila: FR -
            Message 5 of 15 , Sep 1, 2008
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              Works for me Sheila! I'll look for it!


              ------Original Message------
              From: S
              To: Backpackgeartesters
              ReplyTo: Backpackgeartesters
              Subject: [backpackgeartesters] Re: Attn Sheila: FR - Big Agnes Clearview Air Pad - Sheila
              Sent: Sep 1, 2008 11:15 AM

              Hi Mark,

              It seems that they'd like these two Big Agnes reports at different times. I will only be using
              the products together, but the report will be sitting on my computer for another couple of
              weeks. Sorry for the confusion, I didn't realize the dates were so distant for the two
              reports. I'll upload this one again in a couple of weeks.

              Sheila


              --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, mwood_bgt@... wrote:
              >
              > Sheila,
              >
              > It appears that your FR for the Big Agnes Clearview Air Pad has been
              > removed from the Test area.
              >
              > Could you please re-upload it and I'll complete your edits!
              >
              > Thanks,
              >
              > Mark Wood
              >




              ------------------------------------

              Yahoo! Groups Links





              Mark Wood
              -------------
              Sent via BlackBerry
            • S
              Hi Mark, Here s my FR for the Big Agnes Clearview Air Pad. Sheila http://tinyurl.com/3re669 Field Report: September 9, 2008 FIELD CONDITIONS I have so far used
              Message 6 of 15 , Sep 11, 2008
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                Hi Mark,

                Here's my FR for the Big Agnes Clearview Air Pad.

                Sheila



                http://tinyurl.com/3re669


                Field Report: September 9, 2008
                FIELD CONDITIONS
                I have so far used the Big Agnes Clearview Air Pad for a total of five nights, including one
                night at home, one night near a trailhead and three nights on a trail. The pad only held air
                on the first four of these five nights.

                I would never normally include a night at home in my report, but since this product was so
                short-lived, I'll throw that extra day in here for Big Agnes' benefit. That night there was a
                big wildfire nearby, so I slept downstairs. I used this pad with my Big Agnes Elbert sleeping
                bag on the carpeted floor. The temperature was about 70 F (21 C).

                I used the Clearview for one night at a walk-in campground and three nights of
                backpacking on California's Lost Coast. I paired the Clearview with a Big Agnes Elbert
                sleeping bag and slept inside a tent. The elevation was near sea level and the overnight
                low temperature was about 50 F (10 C).

                FIELD RESULTS
                I thought the Clearview pad fit perfectly with my Elbert sleeping bag. Afterall, they were
                designed for that purpose. When I put them together for my Initial Report, I noticed that
                one channel of the eight air channels making up the Clearview was popping up. I just
                assumed that wouldn't happen when I laid down on the pad overnight. Instead, what
                happened was that one or two of the channels along the side popped up, rolling me off
                the pad. I don't know whether the pad is too wide or the pocket on the sleeping bag is too
                narrow, but they don't fit together well, making it hard to sleep on this pad. The thickness
                of the pad did mean I got some good sleep for the moments when I was able to stay on
                the pad without rolling off. In order to keep the pad from rolling me off of it, I tried not
                inflating it all the way one night, but then I could feel my hips digging into the ground, so
                that wasn't comfortable either.

                The rolling problem was nothing compared with the atrocious durability of this pad. All
                that worrying about popping this pad was for naught. It lasted exactly four nights before
                the welded seams just slipped apart. No, I didn't tug on the seams hoping to find potato
                chips inside. And no, I don't weigh several tons. I also didn't jump on the pad. But I did
                have an absolutely terrible night trying to sleep on the cold, hard ground. Because of this, I
                refuse to ever take this pad backpacking again. Even at just 12.8 oz (363 g), it's a waste of
                pack weight and space because it doesn't work. Also, at US $10.74 per usable night, this is
                an incredibly overpriced sleeping pad.


                Here's the hole where the welded seams pulled apart.

                I went back to the Big Agnes website to see what I should do about this busted pad. The
                website has a blurb about how every pad comes with a repair kit. That's a lie. This pad
                doesn't have a repair kit. Besides, it looks as thought the seams are loosening around
                other parts of the pad, so I cannot trust that this pad won't come apart again if I did try to
                glue the hole shut.


                The seams are coming apart all around the pad. The hole is on the upper left corner, but
                the seams are also pulling apart across the top and side of the pad as shown in this photo.

                I contacted Big Agnes customer service by email and was told that their lifetime warranty
                covers anything not caused by wear and tear or damage. Certainly four nights of careful
                use should be fine under their warranty. However, I'm very angry at having to mail this pad
                back to Big Agnes on my dime. I had been extremely careful with this pad and the hole
                that developed was entirely Big Agnes' (not my) fault. What a waste of shipping expenses
                and hydrocarbons!

                Two weeks after I sent the pad back to Big Agnes, they mailed me a new one with a note
                that they "haven't seen any other Clearview Pads come back with a defect like this so in
                terms of durability [I] shouldn't have any issues with [my] new pad." I can't say I trust that
                statement.

                SUMMARY
                I would most definitely not recommend this pad. Backpacking with the Big Agnes
                Clearview Air Pad was a HUGE mistake. I spent an absolutely miserable night on the hard
                ground and still had to carry the useless 13.4 oz (380 g) of materials on my back. Big
                Agnes' craftsmanship is deplorable. My Clearview busted along the seams after four nights
                of use. When it did hold air, it didn't fit properly with a sleeping bag it was designed to be
                used with. It's time for Big Agnes to drop the Clearview Air Pad or make some major
                manufacturing and design changes.

                PROS
                None!!!
                CONS
                Doesn't fit well with Big Agnes Elbert sleeping bag (designed to be used together), makes
                me roll off of it
                Fell apart at the seams after four nights of use
                Not worth the money, weight or pack space
                REMARKS
                This concludes my Field Report. My Long-Term Report will be available in November
                2008. Big Agnes and BackpackGearTest.org are providing me with the opportunity to test
                the Clearview Air Pad.
              • S
                Hi Mark, Just a reminder that my Clearview FR needs edits. Message # 48608. Thanks, Sheila
                Message 7 of 15 , Sep 22, 2008
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                  Hi Mark,

                  Just a reminder that my Clearview FR needs edits. Message # 48608.

                  Thanks,

                  Sheila

                  --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, "S" <geosheila@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Mark,
                  >
                  > Here's my FR for the Big Agnes Clearview Air Pad.
                  >
                  > Sheila
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > http://tinyurl.com/3re669
                • Mark Wood
                  Sheila, Doesn t sound like you had too much fun with this bag... Sorry to hear it. The edits can be found below in the standard format. I am glad we are
                  Message 8 of 15 , Sep 23, 2008
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                    Sheila,

                    Doesn't sound like you had too much fun with this bag... Sorry to
                    hear it.

                    The edits can be found below in the standard format.

                    I am glad we are willing to report on both the good and bad here at
                    BGT. I just want to ensure that you've thought through your review
                    (it sounds like you have) and are using facts to back up your
                    reasoning for statements such as "Because of this, I refuse to ever
                    take this pad backpacking again.".

                    I'm not trying to imply that you're being hasty here. I just want to
                    make sure that we're attempting to be as objective as possible.

                    Good luck with the LTR!

                    Mark

                    ----------------> Begin Edits


                    > Field Report: September 9, 2008
                    > FIELD CONDITIONS
                    > I have so far used the Big Agnes Clearview Air Pad for a total of
                    five nights, including one
                    > night at home, one night near a trailhead and three nights on a
                    trail. The pad only held air
                    > on the first four of these five nights.
                    >
                    > I would never normally include a night at home in my report, but
                    since this product was so
                    > short-lived, I'll throw that extra day in here for Big Agnes'
                    benefit. That night there was a
                    > big wildfire nearby, so I slept downstairs. I used this pad with my
                    Big Agnes Elbert sleeping
                    > bag on the carpeted floor. The temperature was about 70 F (21 C).
                    >
                    > I used the Clearview for one night at a walk-in campground and three
                    nights of
                    > backpacking on California's Lost Coast. I paired the Clearview with
                    a Big Agnes Elbert
                    > sleeping bag and slept inside a tent. The elevation was near sea
                    level and the overnight
                    > low temperature was about 50 F (10 C).
                    >
                    > FIELD RESULTS
                    > I thought the Clearview pad fit perfectly with my Elbert sleeping
                    bag. Afterall, they were
                    > designed for that purpose. When I put them together for my Initial
                    Report, I noticed that
                    > one channel of the eight air channels making up the Clearview was
                    popping up. I just
                    > assumed that wouldn't happen when I laid down on the pad overnight.
                    Instead, what
                    > happened was that one or two of the channels along the side popped
                    up, rolling me off
                    > the pad. I don't know whether the pad is too wide or the pocket on
                    the sleeping bag is too
                    > narrow, but they don't fit together well, making it hard to sleep on
                    this pad. The thickness
                    > of the pad did mean I got some good sleep for the moments when I was
                    able to stay on
                    > the pad without rolling off. In order to keep the pad from rolling
                    me off of it, I tried not
                    > inflating it all the way one night, but then I could feel my hips
                    digging into the ground, so
                    > that wasn't comfortable either.

                    Edit> My spell checker things "afterall" is two words.

                    > The rolling problem was nothing compared with the atrocious
                    durability of this pad. All
                    > that worrying about popping this pad was for naught. It lasted
                    exactly four nights before
                    > the welded seams just slipped apart. No, I didn't tug on the seams
                    hoping to find potato
                    > chips inside. And no, I don't weigh several tons. I also didn't jump
                    on the pad. But I did
                    > have an absolutely terrible night trying to sleep on the cold, hard
                    ground. Because of this, I
                    > refuse to ever take this pad backpacking again. Even at just 12.8 oz
                    (363 g), it's a waste of
                    > pack weight and space because it doesn't work. Also, at US $10.74
                    per usable night, this is
                    > an incredibly overpriced sleeping pad.

                    Comment> "Even at just 12.8 oz..." be sure we're not projecting here.
                    I might add a "...I feel it's a waste of pack weight and space..."
                    just to be safe.

                    >
                    > Here's the hole where the welded seams pulled apart.
                    >
                    > I went back to the Big Agnes website to see what I should do about
                    this busted pad. The
                    > website has a blurb about how every pad comes with a repair kit.
                    That's a lie. This pad
                    > doesn't have a repair kit. Besides, it looks as thought the seams
                    are loosening around
                    > other parts of the pad, so I cannot trust that this pad won't come
                    apart again if I did try to
                    > glue the hole shut.
                    >
                    >
                    > The seams are coming apart all around the pad. The hole is on the
                    upper left corner, but
                    > the seams are also pulling apart across the top and side of the pad
                    as shown in this photo.
                    >
                    > I contacted Big Agnes customer service by email and was told that
                    their lifetime warranty
                    > covers anything not caused by wear and tear or damage. Certainly
                    four nights of careful
                    > use should be fine under their warranty. However, I'm very angry at
                    having to mail this pad
                    > back to Big Agnes on my dime. I had been extremely careful with this
                    pad and the hole
                    > that developed was entirely Big Agnes' (not my) fault. What a waste
                    of shipping expenses
                    > and hydrocarbons!
                    >
                    > Two weeks after I sent the pad back to Big Agnes, they mailed me a
                    new one with a note
                    > that they "haven't seen any other Clearview Pads come back with a
                    defect like this so in
                    > terms of durability [I] shouldn't have any issues with [my] new
                    pad." I can't say I trust that
                    > statement.
                    >
                    > SUMMARY
                    > I would most definitely not recommend this pad. Backpacking with the
                    Big Agnes
                    > Clearview Air Pad was a HUGE mistake. I spent an absolutely
                    miserable night on the hard
                    > ground and still had to carry the useless 13.4 oz (380 g) of
                    materials on my back. Big
                    > Agnes' craftsmanship is deplorable. My Clearview busted along the
                    seams after four nights
                    > of use. When it did hold air, it didn't fit properly with a sleeping
                    bag it was designed to be
                    > used with. It's time for Big Agnes to drop the Clearview Air Pad or
                    make some major
                    > manufacturing and design changes.
                    >
                    > PROS
                    > None!!!
                    > CONS
                    > Doesn't fit well with Big Agnes Elbert sleeping bag (designed to be
                    used together), makes
                    > me roll off of it
                    > Fell apart at the seams after four nights of use
                    > Not worth the money, weight or pack space
                    > REMARKS
                    > This concludes my Field Report. My Long-Term Report will be
                    available in November
                    > 2008. Big Agnes and BackpackGearTest.org are providing me with the
                    opportunity to test
                    > the Clearview Air Pad.
                    >
                  • S
                    Thanks for your edits, Mark. Yeah, this is definitely the worst backpacking item I ve ever tested. Anyway, the report is uploaded and I will now delete the
                    Message 9 of 15 , Sep 23, 2008
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                      Thanks for your edits, Mark. Yeah, this is definitely the worst backpacking item I've ever
                      tested. Anyway, the report is uploaded and I will now delete the test report. Thank you for
                      your help.

                      Sheila



                      --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Wood" <mwood_bgt@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Sheila,
                      >
                      > Doesn't sound like you had too much fun with this bag... Sorry to
                      > hear it.
                      >
                      > The edits can be found below in the standard format.
                      >
                      > I am glad we are willing to report on both the good and bad here at
                      > BGT. I just want to ensure that you've thought through your review
                      > (it sounds like you have) and are using facts to back up your
                      > reasoning for statements such as "Because of this, I refuse to ever
                      > take this pad backpacking again.".
                      >
                      > I'm not trying to imply that you're being hasty here. I just want to
                      > make sure that we're attempting to be as objective as possible.
                      >
                      > Good luck with the LTR!
                      >
                      > Mark
                    • pamwyant
                      Sheila, Sorry to read that you had such problems with the Clearview. As Mark pointed out, we report on both good and bad, but I have some real concerns about
                      Message 10 of 15 , Sep 23, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Sheila,

                        Sorry to read that you had such problems with the Clearview. As Mark
                        pointed out, we report on both good and bad, but I have some real
                        concerns about the way you wrote a couple of things in particular.

                        > > I went back to the Big Agnes website to see what I should do about
                        > this busted pad. The
                        > > website has a blurb about how every pad comes with a repair kit.
                        > That's a lie.

                        I'm not sure where you saw that every pad comes with a repair kit,
                        but the Sleep Pad Spec Chart on this page states that the Clearview
                        only comes with a stuff sack. No repair kit mentioned.

                        http://www.bigagnes.com/pad_chart.php

                        In view of this, my suggestion is to avoid saying Big Agnes lied.



                        > > Two weeks after I sent the pad back to Big Agnes, they mailed me a
                        > new one with a note
                        > > that they "haven't seen any other Clearview Pads come back with a
                        > defect like this so in
                        > > terms of durability [I] shouldn't have any issues with [my] new
                        > pad." I can't say I trust that
                        > > statement.


                        Just wondering if you have reason not to trust that statement. I've
                        read a few reviews of the Clearview, and haven't heard of what you
                        experienced happening. Here is one:

                        http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-
                        bin/backpackinglight/big_agnes_clearview_air_pad_review.html

                        They did experience problems in other areas if you read the review,
                        but not what happened to you. Our other testers didn't seem to have
                        the same type of issues.

                        There is another problem that has been mentioned here in the valve
                        body area, but again not what you experienced.

                        http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-
                        bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=15867

                        I think it's pretty serious to say "I can't say I trust that
                        statement" without evidence to support why you don't trust it.

                        Given the experience of our other testers, and the pretty thorough
                        test by BackpackingLight (done by folks that are testers here too), I
                        would hope that you could give Big Agnes the benefit of the doubt
                        that perhaps yours was a random bad pad in regards to the type of
                        failure you experienced until further testing would prove otherwise.

                        While I know a defective item can be a real bummer, I think our
                        objectivity and thorough testing is what sets us apart from every
                        other site. So many are filled with reviews from folks that just use
                        an item once or twice and either love it or hate it. Defective
                        products and dealing with replacing them can be a pain, but reporting
                        on what happens next is an important part of our 'jobs' here, in my
                        opinion, and in so many cases, we've had the manufacturer go back and
                        make design changes to improve the product based on our input as
                        testers, which I think says a lot for our program.

                        Pam
                      • Leesa J
                        Pam, Thanks for your thoughts. Chuck is the Moderator on this and will address it if needed. It would be better if the discussion take place between tester,
                        Message 11 of 15 , Sep 23, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Pam,

                          Thanks for your thoughts. Chuck is the Moderator on this and will address
                          it if needed. It would be better if the discussion take place between
                          tester, monitor and moderator, instead of the list as a whole.

                          Thanks,
                          Leesa

                          On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 6:23 PM, pamwyant <pamwyant@...> wrote:

                          > Sheila,
                          >
                          > Sorry to read that you had such problems with the Clearview. As Mark
                          > pointed out, we report on both good and bad, but I have some real
                          > concerns about the way you wrote a couple of things in particular.
                          >
                          > > > I went back to the Big Agnes website to see what I should do about
                          > > this busted pad. The
                          > > > website has a blurb about how every pad comes with a repair kit.
                          > > That's a lie.
                          >
                          > I'm not sure where you saw that every pad comes with a repair kit,
                          > but the Sleep Pad Spec Chart on this page states that the Clearview
                          > only comes with a stuff sack. No repair kit mentioned.
                          >
                          > http://www.bigagnes.com/pad_chart.php
                          >
                          > In view of this, my suggestion is to avoid saying Big Agnes lied.
                          >
                          > > > Two weeks after I sent the pad back to Big Agnes, they mailed me a
                          > > new one with a note
                          > > > that they "haven't seen any other Clearview Pads come back with a
                          > > defect like this so in
                          > > > terms of durability [I] shouldn't have any issues with [my] new
                          > > pad." I can't say I trust that
                          > > > statement.
                          >
                          > Just wondering if you have reason not to trust that statement. I've
                          > read a few reviews of the Clearview, and haven't heard of what you
                          > experienced happening. Here is one:
                          >
                          > http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-
                          > bin/backpackinglight/big_agnes_clearview_air_pad_review.html
                          >
                          > They did experience problems in other areas if you read the review,
                          > but not what happened to you. Our other testers didn't seem to have
                          > the same type of issues.
                          >
                          > There is another problem that has been mentioned here in the valve
                          > body area, but again not what you experienced.
                          >
                          > http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-
                          > bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=15867
                          >
                          > I think it's pretty serious to say "I can't say I trust that
                          > statement" without evidence to support why you don't trust it.
                          >
                          > Given the experience of our other testers, and the pretty thorough
                          > test by BackpackingLight (done by folks that are testers here too), I
                          > would hope that you could give Big Agnes the benefit of the doubt
                          > that perhaps yours was a random bad pad in regards to the type of
                          > failure you experienced until further testing would prove otherwise.
                          >
                          > While I know a defective item can be a real bummer, I think our
                          > objectivity and thorough testing is what sets us apart from every
                          > other site. So many are filled with reviews from folks that just use
                          > an item once or twice and either love it or hate it. Defective
                          > products and dealing with replacing them can be a pain, but reporting
                          > on what happens next is an important part of our 'jobs' here, in my
                          > opinion, and in so many cases, we've had the manufacturer go back and
                          > make design changes to improve the product based on our input as
                          > testers, which I think says a lot for our program.
                          >
                          > Pam
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • S
                          ... It is here: http://www.bigagnes.com/service.php ... This is based on my personal experiences and I prefer not to read others reviews while I am testing.
                          Message 12 of 15 , Sep 23, 2008
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                            > I'm not sure where you saw that every pad comes with a repair kit,
                            > but the Sleep Pad Spec Chart on this page states that the Clearview
                            > only comes with a stuff sack. No repair kit mentioned.
                            >
                            > http://www.bigagnes.com/pad_chart.php
                            >
                            > In view of this, my suggestion is to avoid saying Big Agnes lied.

                            It is here:
                            http://www.bigagnes.com/service.php



                            > Just wondering if you have reason not to trust that statement. I've
                            > read a few reviews of the Clearview, and haven't heard of what you
                            > experienced happening. Here is one:
                            >
                            > http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-
                            > bin/backpackinglight/big_agnes_clearview_air_pad_review.html

                            This is based on my personal experiences and I prefer not to read others' reviews while I
                            am testing. The reason I don't trust it is because I only used the pad on one trip and,
                            although it worked the first few nights, it then broke. Additionally, there were multiple
                            places along the seams that were coming apart.



                            > I think it's pretty serious to say "I can't say I trust that
                            > statement" without evidence to support why you don't trust it.

                            I agree. I included photos of how and where the pad broke.



                            > Given the experience of our other testers, and the pretty thorough
                            > test by BackpackingLight (done by folks that are testers here too), I
                            > would hope that you could give Big Agnes the benefit of the doubt
                            > that perhaps yours was a random bad pad in regards to the type of
                            > failure you experienced until further testing would prove otherwise.

                            I would like to have written a more positive review, but I had a bad experience with this
                            pad. They did send me a new pad for the Long-Term testing period.



                            > While I know a defective item can be a real bummer, I think our
                            > objectivity and thorough testing is what sets us apart from every
                            > other site. So many are filled with reviews from folks that just use
                            > an item once or twice and either love it or hate it. Defective
                            > products and dealing with replacing them can be a pain, but reporting
                            > on what happens next is an important part of our 'jobs' here, in my
                            > opinion, and in so many cases, we've had the manufacturer go back and
                            > make design changes to improve the product based on our input as
                            > testers, which I think says a lot for our program.

                            I have so far used the pad 5 nights (which, by the way, is BGTs overall minimum, though
                            I'll of course be trying it again in the long-term testing period). Had I used this pad just a
                            night or two, I might have mistakenly written a positive review. I certainly hope they do go
                            and make changes to the product. If I had tested, say, waterproof shoes that didn't hold
                            water, then I could comment on how well they worked in dry situations. However, there is
                            only one use for a sleeping pad and I absolutely stick by the fact that it must hold air if it
                            is to be of any use to me!

                            Sheila
                          • edwardripleyduggan
                            Sheila, There is absolutely nothing wrong with a negative review--indeed I have written my fair share of them. Still, I have some very serious issues with
                            Message 13 of 15 , Sep 23, 2008
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                              Sheila,

                              There is absolutely nothing wrong with a negative review--indeed I
                              have written my fair share of them. Still, I have some very serious
                              issues with yours.

                              First, your Field Review makes judgments best reserved for the Long
                              Term review. Perhaps you simply received a defective unit. Such things
                              happen, even with the best manufacturers. Before using such very
                              strong language to condemn the pad, please try the replacement in the
                              field first, and see if you experience the same problems.

                              Second, negative reviews need to be neutral and analytical in tone,
                              and heavily fact-based. Your review is about as far from neutral as
                              anything I have ever read on BGT. Phrases and sentences such as

                              "atrocious durability"

                              "That's a lie."

                              "I can't say I trust that statement."

                              are subjective comments have ABSOLUTELY NO PLACE IN A BGT REPORT. Not
                              under any circumstances, at any time.

                              I sympathize that you had a bad time sleeping on uncomfortable
                              terrain. Unfortunately, equipment failures happen when you are testing
                              gear. I remember when Colleen (no longer with BGT, I think) hiked in a
                              pair of sandals that rendered her feet into something resembling raw
                              hamburger. She wrote an admirably balanced report, without labeling
                              the manufacturer a liar.

                              Your report is entirely unacceptable in its present form. Please
                              rewrite immediately it in a simple fact-based, non-editorializing
                              fashion, and continue with the test. Alternatively, contact the test
                              moderator, and make arrangements to forward the replacement pad you
                              were sent (and, presumably, the accompanying sleeping bag) to another
                              tester. Thank you.

                              Edward Ripley-Duggan

                              Senior Edit Moderator




                              --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Wood"
                              <mwood_bgt@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Sheila,
                              >
                              > Doesn't sound like you had too much fun with this bag... Sorry to
                              > hear it.
                              >
                              > The edits can be found below in the standard format.
                              >
                              > I am glad we are willing to report on both the good and bad here at
                              > BGT. I just want to ensure that you've thought through your review
                              > (it sounds like you have) and are using facts to back up your
                              > reasoning for statements such as "Because of this, I refuse to ever
                              > take this pad backpacking again.".
                              >
                              > I'm not trying to imply that you're being hasty here. I just want to
                              > make sure that we're attempting to be as objective as possible.
                              >
                              > Good luck with the LTR!
                              >
                              > Mark
                              >
                              > ----------------> Begin Edits
                              >
                              >
                              > > Field Report: September 9, 2008
                              > > FIELD CONDITIONS
                              > > I have so far used the Big Agnes Clearview Air Pad for a total of
                              > five nights, including one
                              > > night at home, one night near a trailhead and three nights on a
                              > trail. The pad only held air
                              > > on the first four of these five nights.
                              > >
                              > > I would never normally include a night at home in my report, but
                              > since this product was so
                              > > short-lived, I'll throw that extra day in here for Big Agnes'
                              > benefit. That night there was a
                              > > big wildfire nearby, so I slept downstairs. I used this pad with my
                              > Big Agnes Elbert sleeping
                              > > bag on the carpeted floor. The temperature was about 70 F (21 C).
                              > >
                              > > I used the Clearview for one night at a walk-in campground and three
                              > nights of
                              > > backpacking on California's Lost Coast. I paired the Clearview with
                              > a Big Agnes Elbert
                              > > sleeping bag and slept inside a tent. The elevation was near sea
                              > level and the overnight
                              > > low temperature was about 50 F (10 C).
                              > >
                              > > FIELD RESULTS
                              > > I thought the Clearview pad fit perfectly with my Elbert sleeping
                              > bag. Afterall, they were
                              > > designed for that purpose. When I put them together for my Initial
                              > Report, I noticed that
                              > > one channel of the eight air channels making up the Clearview was
                              > popping up. I just
                              > > assumed that wouldn't happen when I laid down on the pad overnight.
                              > Instead, what
                              > > happened was that one or two of the channels along the side popped
                              > up, rolling me off
                              > > the pad. I don't know whether the pad is too wide or the pocket on
                              > the sleeping bag is too
                              > > narrow, but they don't fit together well, making it hard to sleep on
                              > this pad. The thickness
                              > > of the pad did mean I got some good sleep for the moments when I was
                              > able to stay on
                              > > the pad without rolling off. In order to keep the pad from rolling
                              > me off of it, I tried not
                              > > inflating it all the way one night, but then I could feel my hips
                              > digging into the ground, so
                              > > that wasn't comfortable either.
                              >
                              > Edit> My spell checker things "afterall" is two words.
                              >
                              > > The rolling problem was nothing compared with the atrocious
                              > durability of this pad. All
                              > > that worrying about popping this pad was for naught. It lasted
                              > exactly four nights before
                              > > the welded seams just slipped apart. No, I didn't tug on the seams
                              > hoping to find potato
                              > > chips inside. And no, I don't weigh several tons. I also didn't jump
                              > on the pad. But I did
                              > > have an absolutely terrible night trying to sleep on the cold, hard
                              > ground. Because of this, I
                              > > refuse to ever take this pad backpacking again. Even at just 12.8 oz
                              > (363 g), it's a waste of
                              > > pack weight and space because it doesn't work. Also, at US $10.74
                              > per usable night, this is
                              > > an incredibly overpriced sleeping pad.
                              >
                              > Comment> "Even at just 12.8 oz..." be sure we're not projecting here.
                              > I might add a "...I feel it's a waste of pack weight and space..."
                              > just to be safe.
                              >
                              > >
                              > > Here's the hole where the welded seams pulled apart.
                              > >
                              > > I went back to the Big Agnes website to see what I should do about
                              > this busted pad. The
                              > > website has a blurb about how every pad comes with a repair kit.
                              > That's a lie. This pad
                              > > doesn't have a repair kit. Besides, it looks as thought the seams
                              > are loosening around
                              > > other parts of the pad, so I cannot trust that this pad won't come
                              > apart again if I did try to
                              > > glue the hole shut.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > The seams are coming apart all around the pad. The hole is on the
                              > upper left corner, but
                              > > the seams are also pulling apart across the top and side of the pad
                              > as shown in this photo.
                              > >
                              > > I contacted Big Agnes customer service by email and was told that
                              > their lifetime warranty
                              > > covers anything not caused by wear and tear or damage. Certainly
                              > four nights of careful
                              > > use should be fine under their warranty. However, I'm very angry at
                              > having to mail this pad
                              > > back to Big Agnes on my dime. I had been extremely careful with this
                              > pad and the hole
                              > > that developed was entirely Big Agnes' (not my) fault. What a waste
                              > of shipping expenses
                              > > and hydrocarbons!
                              > >
                              > > Two weeks after I sent the pad back to Big Agnes, they mailed me a
                              > new one with a note
                              > > that they "haven't seen any other Clearview Pads come back with a
                              > defect like this so in
                              > > terms of durability [I] shouldn't have any issues with [my] new
                              > pad." I can't say I trust that
                              > > statement.
                              > >
                              > > SUMMARY
                              > > I would most definitely not recommend this pad. Backpacking with the
                              > Big Agnes
                              > > Clearview Air Pad was a HUGE mistake. I spent an absolutely
                              > miserable night on the hard
                              > > ground and still had to carry the useless 13.4 oz (380 g) of
                              > materials on my back. Big
                              > > Agnes' craftsmanship is deplorable. My Clearview busted along the
                              > seams after four nights
                              > > of use. When it did hold air, it didn't fit properly with a sleeping
                              > bag it was designed to be
                              > > used with. It's time for Big Agnes to drop the Clearview Air Pad or
                              > make some major
                              > > manufacturing and design changes.
                              > >
                              > > PROS
                              > > None!!!
                              > > CONS
                              > > Doesn't fit well with Big Agnes Elbert sleeping bag (designed to be
                              > used together), makes
                              > > me roll off of it
                              > > Fell apart at the seams after four nights of use
                              > > Not worth the money, weight or pack space
                              > > REMARKS
                              > > This concludes my Field Report. My Long-Term Report will be
                              > available in November
                              > > 2008. Big Agnes and BackpackGearTest.org are providing me with the
                              > opportunity to test
                              > > the Clearview Air Pad.
                              > >
                              >
                            • S
                              Edward, I have addressed your concerns and re-uploaded the report. Like I stated, I will use the replacement in the long-term testing period. However, I cannot
                              Message 14 of 15 , Sep 23, 2008
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                                Edward,

                                I have addressed your concerns and re-uploaded the report. Like I stated, I will use the
                                replacement in the long-term testing period. However, I cannot use it in the field for the
                                FR.

                                Sheila

                                --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, "edwardripleyduggan" <erd@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Sheila,
                                >
                                > There is absolutely nothing wrong with a negative review--indeed I
                                > have written my fair share of them. Still, I have some very serious
                                > issues with yours.
                                >
                                > First, your Field Review makes judgments best reserved for the Long
                                > Term review. Perhaps you simply received a defective unit. Such things
                                > happen, even with the best manufacturers. Before using such very
                                > strong language to condemn the pad, please try the replacement in the
                                > field first, and see if you experience the same problems.
                                >
                                > Second, negative reviews need to be neutral and analytical in tone,
                                > and heavily fact-based. Your review is about as far from neutral as
                                > anything I have ever read on BGT. Phrases and sentences such as
                                >
                                > "atrocious durability"
                                >
                                > "That's a lie."
                                >
                                > "I can't say I trust that statement."
                                >
                                > are subjective comments have ABSOLUTELY NO PLACE IN A BGT REPORT. Not
                                > under any circumstances, at any time.
                                >
                                > I sympathize that you had a bad time sleeping on uncomfortable
                                > terrain. Unfortunately, equipment failures happen when you are testing
                                > gear. I remember when Colleen (no longer with BGT, I think) hiked in a
                                > pair of sandals that rendered her feet into something resembling raw
                                > hamburger. She wrote an admirably balanced report, without labeling
                                > the manufacturer a liar.
                                >
                                > Your report is entirely unacceptable in its present form. Please
                                > rewrite immediately it in a simple fact-based, non-editorializing
                                > fashion, and continue with the test. Alternatively, contact the test
                                > moderator, and make arrangements to forward the replacement pad you
                                > were sent (and, presumably, the accompanying sleeping bag) to another
                                > tester. Thank you.
                                >
                                > Edward Ripley-Duggan
                                >
                                > Senior Edit Moderator
                              • edwardripleyduggan
                                [Posted personally and to list] Sheila, I m sorry, but you are still not quite there with your field report. It has been extensively discussed by the mods, and
                                Message 15 of 15 , Sep 26, 2008
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                                  [Posted personally and to list]

                                  Sheila,

                                  I'm sorry, but you are still not quite there with your field report.
                                  It has been extensively discussed by the mods, and they are in full
                                  agreement with me that your comments are premature, in that they
                                  effectively anticipate the long-term results.

                                  The two lines that are causing most concern are: "I would most
                                  definitely not recommend this pad" and "I suggest it's time for Big
                                  Agnes to drop the Clearview Air Pad or make some major manufacturing
                                  and design changes."

                                  Neither of these lines is an issue in and of itself, but these are
                                  conclusions for the LTR, not the FR, a point I made in my initial
                                  posting to you on this matter. Yes, this pad failed, and if you have a
                                  similar issue with the replacement (tested perhaps somewhere where
                                  failure is less of an issue than the Lost Coast) you will be entirely
                                  justified in making these statements in the Long Term report.

                                  The grumble about the shipping, while I agree it's a pain you had to
                                  pay, seems a bit picayune too, to be frank, but the quarrel that I
                                  (and the mods) have with your language at this point is primarily
                                  summarized in my second paragraph above. Please make the changes, and
                                  continue with the LTR testing.

                                  Again, should you feel so strongly about the matter that you would
                                  prefer not to go with any further testing, contact Chuck and we will
                                  arrange for the test to be transferred.

                                  Thanks,

                                  Edward

                                  Senior edit moderator
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