Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [backpackgeartesters] Attn: Double Rainbow Monitor/Moderator - Major Problem

Expand Messages
  • Jerry Goller
    Hmmm......I m not sure how many of my tents would take that much wind. That is just under a class 1 hurricane. On the Beaufort scale most buildings should get
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 3, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Hmmm......I'm not sure how many of my tents would take that much wind. That
      is just under a class 1 hurricane. On the Beaufort scale most buildings
      should get some damage. The Beaufort scale doesn't mention tents.... ;o)

      Personally, I wouldn't have put it back up the second time. With the pole
      already bent from the wind what did you expect to find out?

      I guess you could put in your report that the Double Rainbow should not be
      put up in near hurricane winds..... =o)

      I don't see how it could be a warranty issue as I'm pretty sure Henry
      doesn't certify it for those wind speeds but only he can address that.

      No tent should be tested in conditions obviously beyond its design intent.
      We normally try for non-destructive testing.... ;o)

      The tests really shouldn't have been run this late in the season but I would
      also expect Henry to understand that.

      Run all this by Henry and see what he has to say about repairing it and if
      he feels this is a fair test of the tent.

      Keep us posted on what Henry has to say. Tell him I'll be happy to talk to
      him about it.

      Jerry


      http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear
      reviews and tests on the planet.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pamwyant
      Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 9:38 PM
      To: backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [backpackgeartesters] Attn: Double Rainbow Monitor/Moderator -
      Major Problem

      Attn: Double Rainbow Monitor/Moderator - Major Problem

      The Double Rainbow Tarptent I am testing got a real wind test this
      weekend as we experienced severe wind gusts as a storm moved through
      the area on Friday. I set the tent up in a fairly stiff breeze with
      some strongish gust (maybe 30 mph gusts) in the early afternoon at
      Girl Scout camp in preparation for sleeping in it that night, having
      some trouble getting the main pole up in the wind. (Important part
      of testing, right?) I was working inside the camp lodge getting
      things ready for campers coming in, when the wind grew much
      stronger, and I got to witness the tent being repeatedly buffeted by
      the gusts, blown completely to the ground on one end, and popping
      back up. The main pole became obviously bent as the wind kept
      striking the tent end on. I took the tent down, verified the pole
      was bent, and set it up again with the beaks facing the wind to see
      if the tent might withstand the wind better that way, but found it
      was worse. This time the tent went down and stayed down, with the
      main pole breaking just at the end of one of the joints. The broken
      pole end ripped through the pole sleeve.

      I had no pole repair kit with me, and due to other problems at camp
      (losing power and having to change plans and make emergency
      preparations) I abandoned plans to sleep in the tent over the
      weekend. I later learned wind gusts up to 68 mph were reported in
      the near area, so I guess the stronger gusts were at least 50-60 mph
      where I was.

      I've uploaded some photos showing the series of wind gusts and the
      results to the test folder, here:

      http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/test/TESTS/Double%20Rainbow%
      20wind%20problems%20-%20Pam/

      OR: http://tinyurl.com/y5ksld

      Obviously the test should not proceed with a tent with a broken pole
      and probably not with a ripped pole sleeve, since even though the
      tear is relatively small it could possibly affect the tension of the
      tent when it is set up. I will need to contact Tarptent about
      repair/replacement to continue the test. Should I ask for it to be
      handled as a warranty issue due to the tent not standing up to the
      wind or should I approach it from being responsible myself due to
      the wind being unusually strong, since it is not really a four
      season tent?

      Which also brings up a couple more questions -
      How much of this should be included in my field report?
      How much 'winter' testing is fair with this tent? Unfortunately due
      to delays between test selection and shipping of the product, we are
      now in the winter testing season with what is more of a 3-season
      tent. Once I have it repaired, should I avoid using when wind
      and/or snow storms are predicted, or take a chance on having
      additional failures?

      Henry Shires seems to be an outstanding gear manufacturer from what
      I've read online. Should I go ahead and share the URL for my photo
      upload with him and let him see it? Or send him some photos? Or do
      neither?

      Pam Wyant






      Yahoo! Groups Links
    • chcoa
      Hi Pam, Shame about the weekend and the tent. I hope it all works out. One of your questions/comments struck me as odd, which is the reason for my post. I
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 3, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Pam,

        Shame about the weekend and the tent. I hope it all works out. One
        of your questions/comments struck me as odd, which is the reason for
        my post.
        I would not consider wind a 4 season issue. Here in AZ our strongest
        winds are most likely going to come on in the summer during the
        monsoon season.

        Jamie
      • pamwyant
        ... strongest ... Here In WV our strongest winds are usually in the winter or early spring, although there are always those occasional exceptions. Just goes
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 3, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, "chcoa" <jdeben@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Pam,
          >
          > Shame about the weekend and the tent. I hope it all works out. One
          > of your questions/comments struck me as odd, which is the reason for
          > my post.
          > I would not consider wind a 4 season issue. Here in AZ our
          strongest
          > winds are most likely going to come on in the summer during the
          > monsoon season.
          >
          > Jamie
          >

          Here In WV our strongest winds are usually in the winter or early
          spring, although there are always those occasional exceptions. Just
          goes to show once again why we choose testers from different areas,
          huh?

          Pam
        • pamwyant
          ... wind. That ... buildings ... tents.... ;o) ### I didn t think to mention it, but the lodge nearby did loose a few shingles from the roof. ... the pole ...
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 3, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
            <ChiefModerator@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hmmm......I'm not sure how many of my tents would take that much
            wind. That
            > is just under a class 1 hurricane. On the Beaufort scale most
            buildings
            > should get some damage. The Beaufort scale doesn't mention
            tents.... ;o)

            ### I didn't think to mention it, but the lodge nearby did loose a
            few shingles from the roof.

            >
            > Personally, I wouldn't have put it back up the second time. With
            the pole
            > already bent from the wind what did you expect to find out?

            ### I was curious as to what would happen with the wind coming from
            a different angle - whether the tent would bow to the ground as it
            did when hit from the end or whether it might better withstand the
            wind. Guess I found out didn't I? Obviously not a good move in
            hindsight, but my thinking was what if I were miles from other
            shelter and I really needed my tent for shelter - would it work
            better set up with the beaks facing the wind instead of the ends?

            >
            > I guess you could put in your report that the Double Rainbow
            should not be
            > put up in near hurricane winds..... =o)

            ### Or when near hurricane gusts might occur!

            >
            > I don't see how it could be a warranty issue as I'm pretty sure
            Henry
            > doesn't certify it for those wind speeds but only he can address
            that.
            >
            > No tent should be tested in conditions obviously beyond its design
            intent.
            > We normally try for non-destructive testing.... ;o)
            >
            > The tests really shouldn't have been run this late in the season
            but I would
            > also expect Henry to understand that.
            >
            > Run all this by Henry and see what he has to say about repairing
            it and if
            > he feels this is a fair test of the tent.
            >
            > Keep us posted on what Henry has to say. Tell him I'll be happy to
            talk to
            > him about it.

            ### Thanks - I just wanted to make sure to approach it correctly.
            Your answers are pretty much what I expected. I didn't expect the
            wind to get as strong as it did and figured 25-30 mph as I estimate
            the wind was when I set the Tarptent up would be a good test.
            Testing destructively wasn't really planned, it was an accidental by-
            product when the wind got much stronger. Well, I guess we live and
            learn. I'll contact Henry tomorrow and see what he has to say and
            report back.

            Pam
          • Rosaleen Sullivan
            As this issue is pondered- Consider this from the perspective of a long-distance hiker being caught on the trail as a nasty storm front comes through. She
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 4, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              As this issue is pondered-

              Consider this from the perspective of a long-distance hiker being caught on the trail as a nasty storm front comes through. She well may not know that the storm coming is a hurricane. I've been out in high winds and later heard that a small plane went down nearby as it crossed mountains overnight. Stuff happens in real life.

              Rosaleen


              Re: Attn: Double Rainbow Monitor/Moderator - Major Problem
              Posted by: "pamwyant" pamwyant@...<mailto:pamwyant@...> pamwyant
              Date: Sun Dec 3, 2006 10:42 pm ((PST))

              --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com<mailto:backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com>, "Jerry Goller"
              <ChiefModerator@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hmmm......I'm not sure how many of my tents would take that much
              wind. That
              > is just under a class 1 hurricane. On the Beaufort scale most
              buildings
              > should get some damage. The Beaufort scale doesn't mention
              tents.... ;o)

              ### I didn't think to mention it, but the lodge nearby did loose a
              few shingles from the roof.

              >
              > Personally, I wouldn't have put it back up the second time. With
              the pole
              > already bent from the wind what did you expect to find out?


              >
              > I guess you could put in your report that the Double Rainbow
              should not be
              > put up in near hurricane winds..... =o)

              ### Or when near hurricane gusts might occur!



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • rayestrella1
              ... caught on the trail as a nasty storm front comes through. She well may not know that the storm coming is a hurricane. I ve been out in high winds and
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 4, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, "Rosaleen Sullivan"
                <rosaleen43@...> wrote:
                >
                > As this issue is pondered-
                >
                > Consider this from the perspective of a long-distance hiker being
                caught on the trail as a nasty storm front comes through. She well may
                not know that the storm coming is a hurricane. I've been out in high
                winds and later heard that a small plane went down nearby as it crossed
                mountains overnight. Stuff happens in real life.

                I agree. Last November I had winds come up in the middle of the night
                that were blowing so hard it kept pulling the three stakes out on the
                windward side, and collapsing the side onto me. I was using a Seedhouse.

                Ray
              • Jerry Goller
                Oh, no question. But that doesn t mean we should subject gear to it in our reports. In those circumstances we know the gear is going to fail to some degree.
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 4, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Oh, no question. But that doesn't mean we should subject gear to it in our
                  reports. In those circumstances we know the gear is going to fail to some
                  degree. The "test" will only tell us how badly it failed.

                  And what are our readers going to do with that information? Oh, no problem
                  with the weather forecast for very high winds.....the Double Rainbow will
                  probably survive it.... ;o)

                  I just want to keep our reports both comprehensive but still fair to the
                  manufacturers.

                  If Pam handles it the way Roger suggested, with the wind speed details
                  included, I think we'll probably be OK.

                  Jerry

                  http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear
                  reviews and tests on the planet.

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rosaleen Sullivan
                  Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 4:33 AM
                  To: backpackgeartesters
                  Subject: [backpackgeartesters] Re: Attn: Double Rainbow Monitor/Moderator -
                  Major Problem

                  As this issue is pondered-

                  Consider this from the perspective of a long-distance hiker being caught on
                  the trail as a nasty storm front comes through. She well may not know that
                  the storm coming is a hurricane. I've been out in high winds and later
                  heard that a small plane went down nearby as it crossed mountains overnight.
                  Stuff happens in real life.

                  Rosaleen


                  Re: Attn: Double Rainbow Monitor/Moderator - Major Problem
                  Posted by: "pamwyant" pamwyant@...<mailto:pamwyant@...>
                  pamwyant
                  Date: Sun Dec 3, 2006 10:42 pm ((PST))

                  --- In
                  backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com<mailto:backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.c
                  om>, "Jerry Goller"
                  <ChiefModerator@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hmmm......I'm not sure how many of my tents would take that much
                  wind. That
                  > is just under a class 1 hurricane. On the Beaufort scale most
                  buildings
                  > should get some damage. The Beaufort scale doesn't mention
                  tents.... ;o)

                  ### I didn't think to mention it, but the lodge nearby did loose a
                  few shingles from the roof.

                  >
                  > Personally, I wouldn't have put it back up the second time. With
                  the pole
                  > already bent from the wind what did you expect to find out?


                  >
                  > I guess you could put in your report that the Double Rainbow
                  should not be
                  > put up in near hurricane winds..... =o)

                  ### Or when near hurricane gusts might occur!



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • Jerry Goller
                  And, had you read a report similar to Pam s except about the Seedhouse, how would this have benefited you in the situation you gave? I m just curious. Jerry
                  Message 8 of 16 , Dec 4, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    And, had you read a report similar to Pam's except about the Seedhouse, how
                    would this have benefited you in the situation you gave?

                    I'm just curious.

                    Jerry

                    http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear
                    reviews and tests on the planet.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rayestrella1
                    Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 7:00 AM
                    To: backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [backpackgeartesters] Re: Attn: Double Rainbow Monitor/Moderator -
                    Major Problem

                    --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, "Rosaleen Sullivan"
                    <rosaleen43@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > As this issue is pondered-
                    >
                    > Consider this from the perspective of a long-distance hiker being
                    caught on the trail as a nasty storm front comes through. She well may
                    not know that the storm coming is a hurricane. I've been out in high
                    winds and later heard that a small plane went down nearby as it crossed
                    mountains overnight. Stuff happens in real life.

                    I agree. Last November I had winds come up in the middle of the night
                    that were blowing so hard it kept pulling the three stakes out on the
                    windward side, and collapsing the side onto me. I was using a Seedhouse.

                    Ray




                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                  • edwardripleyduggan
                    I have responded to Pam (and the list) by e-mail on this issue, as I am also testing the tent. One of the very first things that I noted was the lack of any
                    Message 9 of 16 , Dec 4, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I have responded to Pam (and the list) by e-mail on this issue, as I
                      am also testing the tent.

                      One of the very first things that I noted was the lack of any
                      provision of additional tie-down loops along the ridgeline of the
                      tent, and I was concerned that the only lateral support to the main
                      pole is through the beaks, which are Velcroed together (you can see
                      them gaping in one of Pam's pictures). These clearly don't supply good
                      support in a high wind, a concern that has now been demonstrated valid.

                      I have got whomped by heavy and unexpected winds on many occasions. As
                      Rosaleen and Jamie point out, this is part of the condition of being
                      outdoors. If I'm concerned for the integrity of the tent, I usually
                      throw on additional guylines (and usually carry four extra stakes,
                      plus line, for the purpose). The inability to do this with the DR
                      appears to be the likely cause of Pam's collapsed tent. Guy loops at
                      the midpoint of each side of the arc would probably have prevented the
                      deformation to the pole which caused the collapse (always assuming
                      they didn't pull out)! The downside of the long, flexible pole is that
                      (by its nature) it easily deforms unless well supported. I love this
                      tent, but this is an issue.

                      While I will make note of the lack of tie-down points (I may already
                      have done in my IR), she will be able to speak with real authority to
                      the issue! I think Pam's misadventure is what the testing process is
                      all about. Not destroying gear, naturally--that is a most unfortunate
                      side effect in this case--but demonstrating potential improvements, in
                      this case the addition of points of attachment for guylines.

                      Ted.






                      --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
                      <ChiefModerator@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > And, had you read a report similar to Pam's except about the
                      Seedhouse, how
                      > would this have benefited you in the situation you gave?
                      >
                      > I'm just curious.
                      >
                      > Jerry
                      >
                      > http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive
                      gear
                      > reviews and tests on the planet.
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com
                      > [mailto:backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rayestrella1
                      > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 7:00 AM
                      > To: backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [backpackgeartesters] Re: Attn: Double Rainbow
                      Monitor/Moderator -
                      > Major Problem
                      >
                      > --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, "Rosaleen Sullivan"
                      > <rosaleen43@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > As this issue is pondered-
                      > >
                      > > Consider this from the perspective of a long-distance hiker being
                      > caught on the trail as a nasty storm front comes through. She well may
                      > not know that the storm coming is a hurricane. I've been out in high
                      > winds and later heard that a small plane went down nearby as it crossed
                      > mountains overnight. Stuff happens in real life.
                      >
                      > I agree. Last November I had winds come up in the middle of the night
                      > that were blowing so hard it kept pulling the three stakes out on the
                      > windward side, and collapsing the side onto me. I was using a Seedhouse.
                      >
                      > Ray
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                    • Edward Ripley-Duggan
                      Having e-mail problems with BGT. Testing...
                      Message 10 of 16 , Dec 4, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Having e-mail problems with BGT. Testing...
                      • rayestrella1
                        ... Henry is the nicest and most approachable and helpful manufacturer I have ever dealt with. I think he would want you to write him, and trust me you will
                        Message 11 of 16 , Dec 4, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, "pamwyant" <pamwyant@...>
                          wrote:
                          > Henry Shires seems to be an outstanding gear manufacturer from what
                          > I've read online. Should I go ahead and share the URL for my photo
                          > upload with him and let him see it? Or send him some photos?

                          Henry is the nicest and most approachable and helpful "manufacturer" I
                          have ever dealt with. I think he would want you to write him, and trust
                          me you will be talking to him, not a C.S. rep. You will be pleasantly
                          surprised Pam.

                          Ray
                        • hiking@westernpa.us
                          ... Sorry, the one thing we can t do is ignore tests...that s why we re here! mike
                          Message 12 of 16 , Dec 4, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            > Having e-mail problems with BGT. Testing...

                            Sorry, the one thing we can't do is ignore tests...that's why we're here!

                            mike
                          • nazdarovye
                            That s how I d handle it...definitely share the photos and the data with Henry. Describe the situation and see what he recommends. I d also look at how he
                            Message 13 of 16 , Dec 4, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              That's how I'd handle it...definitely share the photos and the data
                              with Henry. Describe the situation and see what he recommends.

                              I'd also look at how he markets the tent for some clues to your other
                              questions; if he claims it can be used in high winds and "3+" or 4
                              seasons, then it's fair to take the tent there. If not, then your
                              experience is a cautionary tale (don't leave the tent pitched in high
                              winds, or whatever else you want to conclude).

                              Either way, definitely get a hold of Henry and ask to be treated like
                              any other customer in this situation. (As you probably know, he's one
                              of the best in the business for customer service).

                              - Steve


                              --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, "rayestrella1"
                              <rayestrella@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, "pamwyant" <pamwyant@>
                              > wrote:
                              > > Henry Shires seems to be an outstanding gear manufacturer from what
                              > > I've read online. Should I go ahead and share the URL for my photo
                              > > upload with him and let him see it? Or send him some photos?
                              >
                              > Henry is the nicest and most approachable and helpful "manufacturer" I
                              > have ever dealt with. I think he would want you to write him, and trust
                              > me you will be talking to him, not a C.S. rep. You will be pleasantly
                              > surprised Pam.
                              >
                              > Ray
                              >
                            • nazdarovye
                              ... Agreed. I had a pole snap and guy lines pull out on my Evolution 2P in late spring on the Lost Coast in northern California due to very powerful winds.
                              Message 14 of 16 , Dec 4, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, "chcoa" <jdeben@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi Pam,
                                >
                                > Shame about the weekend and the tent. I hope it all works out. One
                                > of your questions/comments struck me as odd, which is the reason for
                                > my post.
                                > I would not consider wind a 4 season issue. Here in AZ our strongest
                                > winds are most likely going to come on in the summer during the
                                > monsoon season.
                                >
                                > Jamie


                                Agreed. I had a pole snap and guy lines pull out on my Evolution 2P in
                                late spring on the Lost Coast in northern California due to very
                                powerful winds. Snow loading and spindrift (and to a lesser extent,
                                the effect of extreme cold and icing on materials and components) are
                                the only things that are truly mainly Winter issues.
                              • pamwyant
                                Thanks to all who have responded. There were some excellent points made, and I appreciate them all. I have composed an e-mail to Henry Shires, ran in by Jerry
                                Message 15 of 16 , Dec 4, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Thanks to all who have responded. There were some excellent points
                                  made, and I appreciate them all.

                                  I have composed an e-mail to Henry Shires, ran in by Jerry to make
                                  sure I was being fair and complete about the conditions, and have sent
                                  it to Henry.

                                  We'll see what happens now, and I'll post an update when I know how he
                                  wants to handle the replacement and repair.

                                  Pam Wyant
                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.