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Probar Field Test Deadline will be missed-SteveMiller

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  • Steve
    Re: the reminder about Probar Field Reports due August 15. I m NOT going to make that deadline because I haven t had enough field experience with the bars. -
    Message 1 of 8 , Aug 2 9:29 AM
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      Re: the reminder about Probar Field Reports due August 15.

      I'm NOT going to make that deadline because I haven't had enough field
      experience with the bars.

      -> One trip on my test plan happened before the bars ever arrived.
      (Not my fault)
      -> The second trip got cancelled due to injury. (My fault but I
      couldn't do anything about it)
      -> I've had one trip with the bars, but only car camping. (As planned)

      I am planning a backpack in the days immediately following August 15,
      so I will be filing the report about 2 weeks past the deadline.

      Sorry, but I don't see any other choices.

      Best
      SteveMiller
    • Andrew Priest
      ... Dear Steve While I appreciate that this email is too late to address the issue of your late reports, please note that in future, reporting dates,
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 15 7:32 PM
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        At 12:29 AM 3/08/2006, you wrote:
        >Re: the reminder about Probar Field Reports due August 15.
        >
        >I'm NOT going to make that deadline because I haven't had enough field
        >experience with the bars.
        >
        > -> One trip on my test plan happened before the bars ever arrived.
        >(Not my fault)
        > -> The second trip got cancelled due to injury. (My fault but I
        >couldn't do anything about it)
        > -> I've had one trip with the bars, but only car camping. (As planned)
        >
        >I am planning a backpack in the days immediately following August 15,
        >so I will be filing the report about 2 weeks past the deadline.
        >
        >Sorry, but I don't see any other choices.

        Dear Steve

        While I appreciate that this email is too late to address the issue
        of your late reports, please note that in future, reporting dates,
        extensions etc are NOT at the whim of the Tester. If you have issues
        with meeting your commitments please discuss them with your Test
        Moderator. The Test Moderator and/or Moderator group will then make a
        decision on the best way forward.

        Thanks
        Andrew Priest
      • Steve
        Andrew: a) I did as I was instructed in the first reminder about reports due. I immediately notified my moderator (email dated Aug 1) that I would not be able
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 15 10:20 PM
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          Andrew:

          a) I did as I was instructed in the first reminder about reports due.
          I immediately notified my moderator (email dated Aug 1) that I would
          not be able to file the report on time. I also notified the list.

          b)I would gladly have dicussed this with my moderator if he had
          responded to my email, but he did not. I sent it to him personally.
          when I got no respopnse, I posted it to the list. Yours is the first
          response I've gotten, and it's been two weeks. If you have an issue
          about that, I suggest you take it up with the moderator.

          c) As I think I made clear, this was not a matter of whim, and I do
          not appreciate your characterizing it like that. My trips were
          cancelled for reasons beyond my control.

          d) My "committment" made in the test app was based on the assumption
          that the product would be recieved in a timely manner. The product
          took long enough to arrive that the first trip on my plan had already
          come and gone. Doubtless, I miscalculated because it's my first test.
          However, I indicated clearly in the app when my first trip wss
          planned for, and the moderator who approved my app, or one of the oher
          more experienced folk invovled, might have clued me that the product
          would probably not arrive by then.

          e) As I indicated, it is my intention to honor what I believe is the
          most significant part of the committment, to give the product a fair
          test. I could easily file the field report tomorrow, but it would not
          include enough of the proper kind of field testing. If forced to
          choose (as I am forced), which is the priority: giving the product a
          fair test or making the deadline?

          SteveM


          --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Priest
          <apriest@...> wrote:
          >
          > At 12:29 AM 3/08/2006, you wrote:
          > >Re: the reminder about Probar Field Reports due August 15.
          > >
          > >I'm NOT going to make that deadline because I haven't had enough field
          > >experience with the bars.
          > >
          > > -> One trip on my test plan happened before the bars ever arrived.
          > >(Not my fault)
          > > -> The second trip got cancelled due to injury. (My fault but I
          > >couldn't do anything about it)
          > > -> I've had one trip with the bars, but only car camping. (As
          planned)
          > >
          > >I am planning a backpack in the days immediately following August 15,
          > >so I will be filing the report about 2 weeks past the deadline.
          > >
          > >Sorry, but I don't see any other choices.
          >
          > Dear Steve
          >
          > While I appreciate that this email is too late to address the issue
          > of your late reports, please note that in future, reporting dates,
          > extensions etc are NOT at the whim of the Tester. If you have issues
          > with meeting your commitments please discuss them with your Test
          > Moderator. The Test Moderator and/or Moderator group will then make a
          > decision on the best way forward.
          >
          > Thanks
          > Andrew Priest
          >
        • Steven Miller
          Andrew: 1) Not sure why you re asking for the message number, since it is the message (dated Aug 3) that you just responded to on Aug 15. I would be happy to
          Message 4 of 8 , Aug 16 12:32 PM
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            Andrew:

            1) Not sure why you're asking for the message number, since it is the
            message (dated Aug 3) that you just responded to on Aug 15. I would be
            happy to provide the message number, but I can't seem to pull it up in
            the system. But since you have the message, it seems a trifle
            irrelevant. My original email to the moderator was sen tot his
            personal email address.

            2) Your original reminder said to notify the moderator if I was going
            to miss the deadline. I did that. (Aug 1.) It's not my fault if he
            didn't get it, or didn't respond.

            When 48 hours passed and I got no response, I notified the group. (Aug
            3.)

            In other words, I did exactly what you're saying I should have done. I
            don't like being publicly chided for having followed the proper
            procedure. If there were any failures, they were not on my part. If
            you feel the need to lay blame on someone, I suggest again that I'm not
            the appropriate party.

            3) If you don't want defensive responses, perhaps you should be a bit
            more restrained and respectful in how you characterize other people's
            actions. Your note "informing" me "how things are done around here"
            was offensive in tone. That aspect of your communication was very
            clear. I'm human too, and I respond to that. If you intend to be
            offensive, then don't get so excited when people respond to it, because
            you're not paying me enough for me to swallow that and smile. If you
            don't intend to be offensive, then you need to reconsider your choice
            of words. As you so often remind people, we're all volunteers here,
            myself included, and we deserve some respect for doing what we're
            doing.

            4) What was not clear from your note was whether you are now making the
            decision that I should post the Field Report within 48 hours, or if
            that decision will be made by the moderator. Your note said both.
            Which instruction should I follow?

            SteveM
          • Jerry Goller
            Somehow, Steve, I think you re not going to be happy here.... ;o) Jerry http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and
            Message 5 of 8 , Aug 16 12:38 PM
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              Somehow, Steve, I think you're not going to be happy here.... ;o)

              Jerry


              http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear
              reviews and tests on the planet.


              -----Original Message-----
              From: backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steven Miller
              Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 1:32 PM
              To: backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [backpackgeartesters] Re: Probar Field Test Deadline will be
              missed-SteveMiller

              Andrew:

              1) Not sure why you're asking for the message number, since it is the
              message (dated Aug 3) that you just responded to on Aug 15. I would be
              happy to provide the message number, but I can't seem to pull it up in the
              system. But since you have the message, it seems a trifle irrelevant. My
              original email to the moderator was sen tot his personal email address.

              2) Your original reminder said to notify the moderator if I was going to
              miss the deadline. I did that. (Aug 1.) It's not my fault if he didn't
              get it, or didn't respond.

              When 48 hours passed and I got no response, I notified the group. (Aug
              3.)

              In other words, I did exactly what you're saying I should have done. I
              don't like being publicly chided for having followed the proper procedure.
              If there were any failures, they were not on my part. If you feel the need
              to lay blame on someone, I suggest again that I'm not the appropriate party.

              3) If you don't want defensive responses, perhaps you should be a bit more
              restrained and respectful in how you characterize other people's actions.
              Your note "informing" me "how things are done around here"
              was offensive in tone. That aspect of your communication was very clear.
              I'm human too, and I respond to that. If you intend to be offensive, then
              don't get so excited when people respond to it, because you're not paying me
              enough for me to swallow that and smile. If you don't intend to be
              offensive, then you need to reconsider your choice of words. As you so
              often remind people, we're all volunteers here, myself included, and we
              deserve some respect for doing what we're doing.

              4) What was not clear from your note was whether you are now making the
              decision that I should post the Field Report within 48 hours, or if that
              decision will be made by the moderator. Your note said both.
              Which instruction should I follow?

              SteveM




              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • Andrew Priest
              ... That is the first significant problem. All management emails should go to the list. Your problems are the very reason we require this. I am really unclear
              Message 6 of 8 , Aug 16 5:04 PM
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                At 03:32 AM 17/08/2006, you wrote:
                >Andrew:
                >
                >1) Not sure why you're asking for the message number, since it is the
                >message (dated Aug 3) that you just responded to on Aug 15. I would be
                >happy to provide the message number, but I can't seem to pull it up in
                >the system. But since you have the message, it seems a trifle
                >irrelevant. My original email to the moderator was sen tot his
                >personal email address.

                That is the first significant problem. All management emails should
                go to the list. Your problems are the very reason we require this. I
                am really unclear as to how you expect a response from a Moderator if
                you don't post a message to the list for the Moderators to respond to.

                Furthermore your Test Monitor is Jim. Your Test Moderator is Stephanie.

                Jm may well have been OOP (away) hence the reason he did not respond.
                Again one of the reasons we ask for OOP notices so not only the
                moderators take note (normally me and Stephanie) but also the
                relevant testers. No point emailing them directly if they are OOP for example.


                >2) Your original reminder said to notify the moderator if I was going
                >to miss the deadline. I did that. (Aug 1.) It's not my fault if he
                >didn't get it, or didn't respond.
                >
                >When 48 hours passed and I got no response, I notified the group. (Aug
                >3.)

                With due respect you told us what you are going to do. That is not
                asking if that is okay or asking what should happen. As has been
                explained already, it is NOT your decision, it is the Moderator
                group. If clarifying that with you is a problem so be it.

                BTW the remainder says this "Should you feel that you are not able to
                meet the deadline, please CONTACT your Test Monitor ASAP via the
                group's mailing list Yahoo! This is most important!"

                Again with due respect Steve, you didn't actually do what was asked,
                in that you did not do it via the "group's mailing list Yahoo!" so
                please don't now get upset at me for something you choose to not do.
                We can't help if we don't know.


                >4) What was not clear from your note was whether you are now making the
                >decision that I should post the Field Report within 48 hours, or if
                >that decision will be made by the moderator. Your note said both.
                >Which instruction should I follow?

                Last time I checked I was still the List MODERATOR and the Senior
                Edit MODERATOR and I don't believe I have been sacked yet. Your
                report was due on August 15, 2006 and therefore it should be posted
                ASAP so it can be edited and uploaded. It would be good to have this
                test wrapped ASAP.

                Regards
                Andrew Priest
                LIST MODERATOR
              • Steve
                Jerry: No worries. ;-) SteveM ... gear ... in the ... irrelevant. My ... didn t ... procedure. ... the need ... appropriate party. ... bit more ... actions.
                Message 7 of 8 , Aug 17 8:50 AM
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                  Jerry:

                  No worries. ;-)

                  SteveM


                  --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
                  <ChiefModerator@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Somehow, Steve, I think you're not going to be happy here.... ;o)
                  >
                  > Jerry
                  >
                  >
                  > http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive
                  gear
                  > reviews and tests on the planet.
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steven Miller
                  > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 1:32 PM
                  > To: backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [backpackgeartesters] Re: Probar Field Test Deadline will be
                  > missed-SteveMiller
                  >
                  > Andrew:
                  >
                  > 1) Not sure why you're asking for the message number, since it is the
                  > message (dated Aug 3) that you just responded to on Aug 15. I would be
                  > happy to provide the message number, but I can't seem to pull it up
                  in the
                  > system. But since you have the message, it seems a trifle
                  irrelevant. My
                  > original email to the moderator was sen tot his personal email address.
                  >
                  > 2) Your original reminder said to notify the moderator if I was going to
                  > miss the deadline. I did that. (Aug 1.) It's not my fault if he
                  didn't
                  > get it, or didn't respond.
                  >
                  > When 48 hours passed and I got no response, I notified the group. (Aug
                  > 3.)
                  >
                  > In other words, I did exactly what you're saying I should have done. I
                  > don't like being publicly chided for having followed the proper
                  procedure.
                  > If there were any failures, they were not on my part. If you feel
                  the need
                  > to lay blame on someone, I suggest again that I'm not the
                  appropriate party.
                  >
                  > 3) If you don't want defensive responses, perhaps you should be a
                  bit more
                  > restrained and respectful in how you characterize other people's
                  actions.
                  > Your note "informing" me "how things are done around here"
                  > was offensive in tone. That aspect of your communication was very
                  clear.
                  > I'm human too, and I respond to that. If you intend to be
                  offensive, then
                  > don't get so excited when people respond to it, because you're not
                  paying me
                  > enough for me to swallow that and smile. If you don't intend to be
                  > offensive, then you need to reconsider your choice of words. As you so
                  > often remind people, we're all volunteers here, myself included, and we
                  > deserve some respect for doing what we're doing.
                  >
                  > 4) What was not clear from your note was whether you are now making the
                  > decision that I should post the Field Report within 48 hours, or if that
                  > decision will be made by the moderator. Your note said both.
                  > Which instruction should I follow?
                  >
                  > SteveM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                • Steve
                  Andrew: I definitely made a mistake, in that the first notice I sent was not to the list (and not to the Moderator, as it turns out. I thought it was Michael
                  Message 8 of 8 , Aug 17 9:10 AM
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                    Andrew:

                    I definitely made a mistake, in that the first notice I sent was not
                    to the list (and not to the Moderator, as it turns out. I thought it
                    was Michael Wheiler. I don't know when it was posted that Stephanie
                    was the moderator, but I missed it.) This was a mistake, not a choice.

                    However, I DID send it to the list within 48 hours, on August 3. I
                    think that's what you keep saying I was suspposed to do.

                    My statement was that I would not be able to make the deadline because
                    I would be unable to complete the planned test by then. It was pretty
                    straightforward, but it was not an ultimatum or any sort of refusal to
                    alter the plan. It was a statement of fact. I don't see how I could
                    have communicated the situation any more plainly.

                    If anyone had chosen to respond to me, in a timely manner, that I
                    should abandon the original test plan and just complete the report, I
                    would happily have done so.

                    YOU chose to respond to me nearly two weeks later, and YOU chose to
                    take my statement as a unilateral decision, and get offensive about it.

                    You should also realize that the reporting structures and heirarchy of
                    this list are not abundantly clear to newcomers. There are plenty of
                    important sounding titles, but I don't believe I've come across a
                    straightforward explanation of the distinctions between Moderator,
                    Monitor and Editor.

                    When you said the decision would be made by "the moderator", the
                    context strongly suggested you were referring to the moderator for
                    this test, not the List Moderator or the Senior Edit Moderator.

                    Now that you've clarified it, I will happily post the report.

                    SteveM



                    --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Priest
                    <apriest@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > At 03:32 AM 17/08/2006, you wrote:
                    > >Andrew:
                    > >
                    > >1) Not sure why you're asking for the message number, since it is the
                    > >message (dated Aug 3) that you just responded to on Aug 15. I would be
                    > >happy to provide the message number, but I can't seem to pull it up in
                    > >the system. But since you have the message, it seems a trifle
                    > >irrelevant. My original email to the moderator was sen tot his
                    > >personal email address.
                    >
                    > That is the first significant problem. All management emails should
                    > go to the list. Your problems are the very reason we require this. I
                    > am really unclear as to how you expect a response from a Moderator if
                    > you don't post a message to the list for the Moderators to respond to.
                    >
                    > Furthermore your Test Monitor is Jim. Your Test Moderator is Stephanie.
                    >
                    > Jm may well have been OOP (away) hence the reason he did not respond.
                    > Again one of the reasons we ask for OOP notices so not only the
                    > moderators take note (normally me and Stephanie) but also the
                    > relevant testers. No point emailing them directly if they are OOP
                    for example.
                    >
                    >
                    > >2) Your original reminder said to notify the moderator if I was going
                    > >to miss the deadline. I did that. (Aug 1.) It's not my fault if he
                    > >didn't get it, or didn't respond.
                    > >
                    > >When 48 hours passed and I got no response, I notified the group. (Aug
                    > >3.)
                    >
                    > With due respect you told us what you are going to do. That is not
                    > asking if that is okay or asking what should happen. As has been
                    > explained already, it is NOT your decision, it is the Moderator
                    > group. If clarifying that with you is a problem so be it.
                    >
                    > BTW the remainder says this "Should you feel that you are not able to
                    > meet the deadline, please CONTACT your Test Monitor ASAP via the
                    > group's mailing list Yahoo! This is most important!"
                    >
                    > Again with due respect Steve, you didn't actually do what was asked,
                    > in that you did not do it via the "group's mailing list Yahoo!" so
                    > please don't now get upset at me for something you choose to not do.
                    > We can't help if we don't know.
                    >
                    >
                    > >4) What was not clear from your note was whether you are now making the
                    > >decision that I should post the Field Report within 48 hours, or if
                    > >that decision will be made by the moderator. Your note said both.
                    > >Which instruction should I follow?
                    >
                    > Last time I checked I was still the List MODERATOR and the Senior
                    > Edit MODERATOR and I don't believe I have been sacked yet. Your
                    > report was due on August 15, 2006 and therefore it should be posted
                    > ASAP so it can be edited and uploaded. It would be good to have this
                    > test wrapped ASAP.
                    >
                    > Regards
                    > Andrew Priest
                    > LIST MODERATOR
                    >
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