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Re: [backpackgeartesters] Re: New Question on modifying product or test

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  • hiking@westernpa.us
    Past comments have always been to use the product as it is made (unless a safety issue), in this case without the sternum strap. We are suppose to evaluate the
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 3, 2006
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      Past comments have always been to use the product as it is made (unless a
      safety issue), in this case without the sternum strap. We are suppose to
      evaluate the product as the manufacturer sells it, to evaluate it with
      modifications isn't a fair evalutation to either the manufacturer or the
      consumer.

      just my 1/2-cent's worth.

      mike



      > my gut says this is good info and more importantly, needed info. my
      > other gut (not sure if it's the upper or lower intestine) say no.
      > Maybe a Mod with a cast iorn stomach can answer more precisly...
      >
      > Coy Boy
      >
      > --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Rad" <aisrad@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> Question in relation to modifying the product or test.
      >>
      >> Is the subsequent paragraph of my FR acceptable for the Six Moons
      >> Essence Pack? I intend on continuing to try the pack without the
      >> sternum strap in the field, as my pack weight varies and on how I
      >> pack it. Thus far I find the Sternum strap as advantageous.
      >>
      >>
      >> FR PARAGRAPH IN QUESTION:
      >> My first trip was 25 lbs (11 kg) in the Snake River Canyon, and I
      >> found that my shoulders were carrying more weight than I desired,
      >> thus making the pack feel heavy. By making up a sternum strap with
      >> some cord, it felt as though more weight shifted to my hips. Upon
      >> returning home I made up a sternum strap from nylon webbing and a
      >> buckle. Since the shoulder straps already have a vertical nylon web
      >> spot stitched over the padding, improvising was easy. I tried going
      >> without the sternum strap on a subsequent trip into Central Idaho
      >> Mountains with 23 lbs (10.5 kg), and again found I prefer the
      >> strap. I would recommend that Six Moons install a sternum strap,
      >> because the customer can always remove it if they prefer to go
      >> without.
      >>
      >> Andy Rad
      >>
      >
      >
      >
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      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
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    • Emma Eyeball
      i m not a mod, either, but this is information that IMO absolutely should be included in a report. this is a case where a tester has clearly identified an
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 3, 2006
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        i'm not a mod, either, but this is information that IMO absolutely
        should be included in a report. this is a case where a tester has
        clearly identified an area that they feel can be improved with a very
        simple (and optional for the user) solution. if the pack wasn't
        working optimally for Andy, then sure he could just say "dang, this
        pack isn't comfortable above 20 pounds," and offer no solution to
        that, or he could do as he has done here. i think it makes BGT much
        more useful (to both readers and manufacturers) to include this kind
        of information.

        -colleen

        --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, "Coy" <starnescr@...> wrote:
        >
        > my gut says this is good info and more importantly, needed info. my
        > other gut (not sure if it's the upper or lower intestine) say no.
        > Maybe a Mod with a cast iorn stomach can answer more precisly...
        >
        > Coy Boy
        >
        > --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Rad" <aisrad@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Question in relation to modifying the product or test.
        > >
        > > Is the subsequent paragraph of my FR acceptable for the Six Moons
        > > Essence Pack? I intend on continuing to try the pack without the
        > > sternum strap in the field, as my pack weight varies and on how I
        > > pack it. Thus far I find the Sternum strap as advantageous.
        > >
        > >
        > > FR PARAGRAPH IN QUESTION:
        > > My first trip was 25 lbs (11 kg) in the Snake River Canyon, and I
        > > found that my shoulders were carrying more weight than I desired,
        > > thus making the pack feel heavy. By making up a sternum strap with
        > > some cord, it felt as though more weight shifted to my hips. Upon
        > > returning home I made up a sternum strap from nylon webbing and a
        > > buckle. Since the shoulder straps already have a vertical nylon web
        > > spot stitched over the padding, improvising was easy. I tried going
        > > without the sternum strap on a subsequent trip into Central Idaho
        > > Mountains with 23 lbs (10.5 kg), and again found I prefer the
        > > strap. I would recommend that Six Moons install a sternum strap,
        > > because the customer can always remove it if they prefer to go
        > > without.
        > >
        > > Andy Rad
        > >
        >
      • Andy Rad
        I m posting the original question again, as I didn t receive any official feedback. I figured it probably got lost during the holiday. Question in relation to
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 6, 2006
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          I'm posting the original question again, as I didn't receive any
          official feedback. I figured it probably got lost during the
          holiday.


          Question in relation to modifying the product or test

          Is the subsequent paragraph of my FR acceptable for the Six Moons
          Essence Pack? I intend on continuing to try the pack without the
          sternum strap in the field, as my pack weight varies and on how I
          pack it. Thus far I find the Sternum strap as advantageous.


          FR PARAGRAPH IN QUESTION:
          My first trip was 25 lbs (11 kg) in the Snake River Canyon, and I
          found that my shoulders were carrying more weight than I desired,
          thus making the pack feel heavy. By making up a sternum strap with
          some cord, it felt as though more weight shifted to my hips. Upon
          returning home I made up a sternum strap from nylon webbing and a
          buckle. Since the shoulder straps already have a vertical nylon web
          spot stitched over the padding, improvising was easy. I tried going
          without the sternum strap on a subsequent trip into Central Idaho
          Mountains with 23 lbs (10.5 kg), and again found I prefer the
          strap. I would recommend that Six Moons install a sternum strap,
          because the customer can always remove it if they prefer to go
          without.

          Andy Rad
        • JimSabis@aol.com
          In a message dated 7/6/2006 1:32:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, aisrad@cableone.net writes: Is the subsequent paragraph of my FR acceptable for the Six Moons
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 6, 2006
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            In a message dated 7/6/2006 1:32:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
            aisrad@... writes:

            Is the subsequent paragraph of my FR acceptable for the Six Moons
            Essence Pack? I intend on continuing to try the pack without the
            sternum strap in the field, as my pack weight varies and on how I
            pack it. Thus far I find the Sternum strap as advantageous.


            FR PARAGRAPH IN QUESTION:
            My first trip was 25 lbs (11 kg) in the Snake River Canyon, and I
            found that my shoulders were carrying more weight than I desired,
            thus making the pack feel heavy. By making up a sternum strap with
            some cord, it felt as though more weight shifted to my hips. Upon
            returning home I made up a sternum strap from nylon webbing and a
            buckle. Since the shoulder straps already have a vertical nylon web
            spot stitched over the padding, improvising was easy. I tried going
            without the sternum strap on a subsequent trip into Central Idaho
            Mountains with 23 lbs (10.5 kg), and again found I prefer the
            strap. I would recommend that Six Moons install a sternum strap,
            because the customer can always remove it if they prefer to go
            without.

            Andy Rad



            ###############

            Andy,

            I'll take a shot at your question, as the other mods seem to be otherwise
            occupied at the moment. I saw your initial post, but it is a gray enough area
            that I thought I'd pass!

            Here we go:

            I think your comments and use of the add-on sternum strap are fine. You have
            not 'modified' the pack, but rather added what is an aftermarket option to
            it. Removable sternum straps are an inexpensive item. I ordered one from
            Campmor several years ago for an older pack that did not come with one. I find that
            I strongly prefer the strap on all my packs, even small ones.

            That said, your report should focus on the use of the pack without the
            sternum strap add-on. If you feel that the pack is uncomfortable without the
            sternum strap, by all means say so. Explain why. Mention if the level of
            discomfort changes with pack weight, etc. I would also mention that you found an easy
            fix with your own sternum strap add-on (whether home-made or store bought).
            Feel free to suggest that, in your opinion, a sternum strap should be either
            standard or an ordering option.

            Watch for possible further comment from Andrew when he returns from his hike.

            Jim S.

            Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of
            the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • pamwyant
            I m obviously not a moderator, but in my opinion that information is really useful. As long as you use it both ways and report on the differences, I would
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 6, 2006
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              I'm obviously not a moderator, but in my opinion that information is
              really useful. As long as you use it both ways and report on the
              differences, I would think it should be acceptable. You aren't
              really "modifying" the pack itself, or changing it on a permanent
              basis. Sternum straps are commonly sold separately as an add-on
              item by outfitters, so I look at it in rather the same manner as if
              you added a pocket to the shoulder strap to add a cell phone, or a
              water bottle holder to the hip-belt. Of course, a moderator may see
              it differently...

              Pam Wyant

              --- In backpackgeartesters@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Rad" <aisrad@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > I'm posting the original question again, as I didn't receive any
              > official feedback. I figured it probably got lost during the
              > holiday.
              >
              >
              > Question in relation to modifying the product or test
              >
              > Is the subsequent paragraph of my FR acceptable for the Six Moons
              > Essence Pack? I intend on continuing to try the pack without the
              > sternum strap in the field, as my pack weight varies and on how I
              > pack it. Thus far I find the Sternum strap as advantageous.
              >
              >
              > FR PARAGRAPH IN QUESTION:
              > My first trip was 25 lbs (11 kg) in the Snake River Canyon, and I
              > found that my shoulders were carrying more weight than I desired,
              > thus making the pack feel heavy. By making up a sternum strap
              with
              > some cord, it felt as though more weight shifted to my hips. Upon
              > returning home I made up a sternum strap from nylon webbing and a
              > buckle. Since the shoulder straps already have a vertical nylon
              web
              > spot stitched over the padding, improvising was easy. I tried
              going
              > without the sternum strap on a subsequent trip into Central Idaho
              > Mountains with 23 lbs (10.5 kg), and again found I prefer the
              > strap. I would recommend that Six Moons install a sternum strap,
              > because the customer can always remove it if they prefer to go
              > without.
              >
              > Andy Rad
              >
            • Andrew Priest
              ... Dear Andy and Jim I think Jim s answer covers things well. The focus should be on how the pack was shipped but I understand the comfort issue. Sir Andrew
              Message 6 of 8 , Jul 8, 2006
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                At 02:13 AM 7/07/2006, you wrote:

                >Andy,
                >
                >I'll take a shot at your question, as the other mods seem to be otherwise
                >occupied at the moment. I saw your initial post, but it is a gray
                >enough area
                >that I thought I'd pass!
                >
                >Here we go:
                >
                >I think your comments and use of the add-on sternum strap are fine. You have
                >not 'modified' the pack, but rather added what is an aftermarket option to
                >it. Removable sternum straps are an inexpensive item. I ordered one from
                >Campmor several years ago for an older pack that did not come with
                >one. I find that
                >I strongly prefer the strap on all my packs, even small ones.
                >
                >That said, your report should focus on the use of the pack without the
                >sternum strap add-on. If you feel that the pack is uncomfortable without the
                >sternum strap, by all means say so. Explain why. Mention if the level of
                >discomfort changes with pack weight, etc. I would also mention that
                >you found an easy
                >fix with your own sternum strap add-on (whether home-made or store bought).
                >Feel free to suggest that, in your opinion, a sternum strap should be either
                >standard or an ordering option.
                >
                >Watch for possible further comment from Andrew when he returns from his hike.
                >

                Dear Andy and Jim

                I think Jim's answer covers things well. The focus should be on how
                the pack was shipped but I understand the comfort issue.

                Sir Andrew
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