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Re: [B5CCG] The Tech

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  • Bruce Mason
    Personally I would allow it as that seems to be the intent of the card in that Fireball has an implicit requirement of requiring at least one techno-mage
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 1, 2009
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      Personally I would allow it as that seems to be the intent of the card in
      that Fireball has an implicit requirement of requiring at least one
      techno-mage character or fleet and The Tech, maybe deliberately reads
      "..event that requires you to control a Techno-mage to play it." i.e. you
      could pick an event that requires a Techno-mage fleet. And yes, you could
      send a 2-pt fireball from orbit with a couple of techno-mage fleets but no
      characters. Ditto if a Techno-mage group or location existed.

      However this is one of those cases where you could argue both ways.

      2009/8/31 Michael English <michael.english@...>

      > For a long time several of us have been retrieving Fireball events using
      > the Tech. Having just read the Tech's text in a bit more detail, I suddenly
      > realised that the Tech can't retrieve fireball. Can anyone confirm, or have
      > I missed something somewhere.
      >
      > The card text:
      >
      > THE TECH
      > Must be sponsored by a Techno-mage. Discard this card if you control no
      > Technomages. Your techno-mage characters and fleets have +1 damage
      > resistance. As an action rotate this card to take from your discard pile a
      > contingency that must target a techno-mage or an event that requires you to
      > control a Techno-mage to play it. Place that card on the bottom of your
      > deck or crusade pile.
      >
      > FIREBALL
      > Target a character controlled by another player. Apply any amount of
      > incluence when you play this event up to the number of Techno-mage
      > characters and/or fleets in your faction. Inflict one point of damage to
      > the target for each point of influence you applied.
      >
      > As I read it, you can play fireball legitimately without any technomage
      > characters; you can even score damage with it if you have a technomage fleet
      > (and fleets aren't mentioned in the Tech); so you can't retrieve it using
      > the Tech. A similar issue exists with A Warning, but other technomage
      > events such as Holo-dragon or Faces In Stone require a techno-mage to rotate
      > to play and therefore can be retrieved by the Tech.
      >
      > Michael
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Babylon 5 CCG Community E-list.
      > Keep it fun, keep it friendly, enjoy.
      > If you have problems with the list contact me at jaxb5ranger@....
      >
      > Also, check out www.epsilonhex.com for more information about the game!
      >
      > To unsubscribe email:
      > b5ccglist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Manuel Tuthill
      When Bruce says intent of the card you know that it means trouble :-) While I agree that it should have been played as per Bruces ruling (and that boldface
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 1, 2009
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        When Bruce says "intent of the card" you know that it means trouble :-)



        While I agree that it should have been played as per Bruces' ruling (and
        that boldface Techo-mage is what it should read) I think that ruling wise I
        would come down with you Michael you're not "required" to have a
        "Techno-mage" so therefore you can't retrieve fireball.



        Manuel

        _____

        From: b5ccglist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:b5ccglist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Bruce Mason
        Sent: 01 September 2009 08:25
        To: b5ccglist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [B5CCG] The Tech





        Personally I would allow it as that seems to be the intent of the card in
        that Fireball has an implicit requirement of requiring at least one
        techno-mage character or fleet and The Tech, maybe deliberately reads
        "..event that requires you to control a Techno-mage to play it." i.e. you
        could pick an event that requires a Techno-mage fleet. And yes, you could
        send a 2-pt fireball from orbit with a couple of techno-mage fleets but no
        characters. Ditto if a Techno-mage group or location existed.

        However this is one of those cases where you could argue both ways.

        2009/8/31 Michael English <michael.english@
        <mailto:michael.english%40menglish.force9.co.uk> menglish.force9.co.uk>

        > For a long time several of us have been retrieving Fireball events using
        > the Tech. Having just read the Tech's text in a bit more detail, I
        suddenly
        > realised that the Tech can't retrieve fireball. Can anyone confirm, or
        have
        > I missed something somewhere.
        >
        > The card text:
        >
        > THE TECH
        > Must be sponsored by a Techno-mage. Discard this card if you control no
        > Technomages. Your techno-mage characters and fleets have +1 damage
        > resistance. As an action rotate this card to take from your discard pile a
        > contingency that must target a techno-mage or an event that requires you
        to
        > control a Techno-mage to play it. Place that card on the bottom of your
        > deck or crusade pile.
        >
        > FIREBALL
        > Target a character controlled by another player. Apply any amount of
        > incluence when you play this event up to the number of Techno-mage
        > characters and/or fleets in your faction. Inflict one point of damage to
        > the target for each point of influence you applied.
        >
        > As I read it, you can play fireball legitimately without any technomage
        > characters; you can even score damage with it if you have a technomage
        fleet
        > (and fleets aren't mentioned in the Tech); so you can't retrieve it using
        > the Tech. A similar issue exists with A Warning, but other technomage
        > events such as Holo-dragon or Faces In Stone require a techno-mage to
        rotate
        > to play and therefore can be retrieved by the Tech.
        >
        > Michael
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Babylon 5 CCG Community E-list.
        > Keep it fun, keep it friendly, enjoy.
        > If you have problems with the list contact me at jaxb5ranger@
        <mailto:jaxb5ranger%40aol.com> aol.com.
        >
        > Also, check out www.epsilonhex.com for more information about the game!
        >
        > To unsubscribe email:
        > b5ccglist-unsubscri <mailto:b5ccglist-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.comYahoo>
        be@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bruce Mason
        Always bad news when you have to refer to the intent of a card. Playing strictly as written, it s hard to justify being able to recycle a Fireball with The
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 1, 2009
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          Always bad news when you have to refer to the intent of a card. Playing
          strictly as written, it's hard to justify being able to recycle a Fireball
          with The Tech however I suspect that almost no-one plays with that level of
          strictness and, generally, when everyone thinks a card does something then
          it probably ought to.

          Technically Fireball has no play requirements. It does though have a
          conditional effect:
          effect 1: you can apply an amount of influence to a maximum equal to the
          number of techno-mage cards you control.
          effect 2 (conditional): You can do an amount of damage equal to the amount
          of influence spent on effect 1.

          So, conceptually, you ought to be able to recycle fireball with The Tech but
          if you play with cards as written you can't.

          2009/9/1 Manuel Tuthill <manuel@...>

          > When Bruce says "intent of the card" you know that it means trouble :-)
          >
          >
          >
          > While I agree that it should have been played as per Bruces' ruling (and
          > that boldface Techo-mage is what it should read) I think that ruling wise I
          > would come down with you Michael you're not "required" to have a
          > "Techno-mage" so therefore you can't retrieve fireball.
          >
          >
          >
          > Manuel
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: b5ccglist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:b5ccglist@yahoogroups.com] On
          > Behalf
          > Of Bruce Mason
          > Sent: 01 September 2009 08:25
          > To: b5ccglist@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [B5CCG] The Tech
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Personally I would allow it as that seems to be the intent of the card in
          > that Fireball has an implicit requirement of requiring at least one
          > techno-mage character or fleet and The Tech, maybe deliberately reads
          > "..event that requires you to control a Techno-mage to play it." i.e. you
          > could pick an event that requires a Techno-mage fleet. And yes, you could
          > send a 2-pt fireball from orbit with a couple of techno-mage fleets but no
          > characters. Ditto if a Techno-mage group or location existed.
          >
          > However this is one of those cases where you could argue both ways.
          >
          > 2009/8/31 Michael English <michael.english@
          > <mailto:michael.english%40menglish.force9.co.uk<michael.english%2540menglish.force9.co.uk>>
          > menglish.force9.co.uk>
          >
          > > For a long time several of us have been retrieving Fireball events using
          > > the Tech. Having just read the Tech's text in a bit more detail, I
          > suddenly
          > > realised that the Tech can't retrieve fireball. Can anyone confirm, or
          > have
          > > I missed something somewhere.
          > >
          > > The card text:
          > >
          > > THE TECH
          > > Must be sponsored by a Techno-mage. Discard this card if you control no
          > > Technomages. Your techno-mage characters and fleets have +1 damage
          > > resistance. As an action rotate this card to take from your discard pile
          > a
          > > contingency that must target a techno-mage or an event that requires you
          > to
          > > control a Techno-mage to play it. Place that card on the bottom of your
          > > deck or crusade pile.
          > >
          > > FIREBALL
          > > Target a character controlled by another player. Apply any amount of
          > > incluence when you play this event up to the number of Techno-mage
          > > characters and/or fleets in your faction. Inflict one point of damage to
          > > the target for each point of influence you applied.
          > >
          > > As I read it, you can play fireball legitimately without any technomage
          > > characters; you can even score damage with it if you have a technomage
          > fleet
          > > (and fleets aren't mentioned in the Tech); so you can't retrieve it using
          > > the Tech. A similar issue exists with A Warning, but other technomage
          > > events such as Holo-dragon or Faces In Stone require a techno-mage to
          > rotate
          > > to play and therefore can be retrieved by the Tech.
          > >
          > > Michael
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > > Babylon 5 CCG Community E-list.
          > > Keep it fun, keep it friendly, enjoy.
          > > If you have problems with the list contact me at jaxb5ranger@
          > <mailto:jaxb5ranger%40aol.com <jaxb5ranger%2540aol.com>> aol.com.
          > >
          > > Also, check out www.epsilonhex.com for more information about the game!
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe email:
          > > b5ccglist-unsubscri <mailto:b5ccglist-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.comYahoo<b5ccglist-unsubscribe%2540yahoogroups.comYahoo>
          > >
          > be@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Babylon 5 CCG Community E-list.
          > Keep it fun, keep it friendly, enjoy.
          > If you have problems with the list contact me at jaxb5ranger@....
          >
          > Also, check out www.epsilonhex.com for more information about the game!
          >
          > To unsubscribe email:
          > b5ccglist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Michael English
          Thanks to all who responded - very helpful. I ll circulate the replies to those in our group who aren t on this list, but unless anyone strenuously objects I
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 1, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Thanks to all who responded - very helpful. I'll circulate the replies to those in our group who aren't on this list, but unless anyone strenuously objects I will propose that our group carry on doing what we've always done and recycle Fireballs and A Warnings with The Tech. I'm not certain it makes a huge difference either way so long as we're consistent. What it does mean is that I will put the Fireballs back in the new deck I'm building ready for next Saturday.

            Michael


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Bruce Mason
            To: b5ccglist@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:17 PM
            Subject: Re: [B5CCG] The Tech


            Always bad news when you have to refer to the intent of a card. Playing
            strictly as written, it's hard to justify being able to recycle a Fireball
            with The Tech however I suspect that almost no-one plays with that level of
            strictness and, generally, when everyone thinks a card does something then
            it probably ought to.

            Technically Fireball has no play requirements. It does though have a
            conditional effect:
            effect 1: you can apply an amount of influence to a maximum equal to the
            number of techno-mage cards you control.
            effect 2 (conditional): You can do an amount of damage equal to the amount
            of influence spent on effect 1.

            So, conceptually, you ought to be able to recycle fireball with The Tech but
            if you play with cards as written you can't.

            2009/9/1 Manuel Tuthill <manuel@...>

            > When Bruce says "intent of the card" you know that it means trouble :-)
            >
            >
            >
            > While I agree that it should have been played as per Bruces' ruling (and
            > that boldface Techo-mage is what it should read) I think that ruling wise I
            > would come down with you Michael you're not "required" to have a
            > "Techno-mage" so therefore you can't retrieve fireball.
            >
            >
            >
            > Manuel
            >
            > _____
            >
            > From: b5ccglist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:b5ccglist@yahoogroups.com] On
            > Behalf
            > Of Bruce Mason
            > Sent: 01 September 2009 08:25
            > To: b5ccglist@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [B5CCG] The Tech
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Personally I would allow it as that seems to be the intent of the card in
            > that Fireball has an implicit requirement of requiring at least one
            > techno-mage character or fleet and The Tech, maybe deliberately reads
            > "..event that requires you to control a Techno-mage to play it." i.e. you
            > could pick an event that requires a Techno-mage fleet. And yes, you could
            > send a 2-pt fireball from orbit with a couple of techno-mage fleets but no
            > characters. Ditto if a Techno-mage group or location existed.
            >
            > However this is one of those cases where you could argue both ways.
            >
            > 2009/8/31 Michael English <michael.english@
            > <mailto:michael.english%40menglish.force9.co.uk<michael.english%2540menglish.force9.co.uk>>
            > menglish.force9.co.uk>
            >
            > > For a long time several of us have been retrieving Fireball events using
            > > the Tech. Having just read the Tech's text in a bit more detail, I
            > suddenly
            > > realised that the Tech can't retrieve fireball. Can anyone confirm, or
            > have
            > > I missed something somewhere.
            > >
            > > The card text:
            > >
            > > THE TECH
            > > Must be sponsored by a Techno-mage. Discard this card if you control no
            > > Technomages. Your techno-mage characters and fleets have +1 damage
            > > resistance. As an action rotate this card to take from your discard pile
            > a
            > > contingency that must target a techno-mage or an event that requires you
            > to
            > > control a Techno-mage to play it. Place that card on the bottom of your
            > > deck or crusade pile.
            > >
            > > FIREBALL
            > > Target a character controlled by another player. Apply any amount of
            > > incluence when you play this event up to the number of Techno-mage
            > > characters and/or fleets in your faction. Inflict one point of damage to
            > > the target for each point of influence you applied.
            > >
            > > As I read it, you can play fireball legitimately without any technomage
            > > characters; you can even score damage with it if you have a technomage
            > fleet
            > > (and fleets aren't mentioned in the Tech); so you can't retrieve it using
            > > the Tech. A similar issue exists with A Warning, but other technomage
            > > events such as Holo-dragon or Faces In Stone require a techno-mage to
            > rotate
            > > to play and therefore can be retrieved by the Tech.
            > >
            > > Michael
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > > Babylon 5 CCG Community E-list.
            > > Keep it fun, keep it friendly, enjoy.
            > > If you have problems with the list contact me at jaxb5ranger@
            > <mailto:jaxb5ranger%40aol.com <jaxb5ranger%2540aol.com>> aol.com.
            > >
            > > Also, check out www.epsilonhex.com for more information about the game!
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe email:
            > > b5ccglist-unsubscri <mailto:b5ccglist-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.comYahoo<b5ccglist-unsubscribe%2540yahoogroups.comYahoo>
            > >
            > be@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Babylon 5 CCG Community E-list.
            > Keep it fun, keep it friendly, enjoy.
            > If you have problems with the list contact me at jaxb5ranger@....
            >
            > Also, check out www.epsilonhex.com for more information about the game!
            >
            > To unsubscribe email:
            > b5ccglist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Mike Eggleton
            I ll just make sure to put my my anti-fireball cards into the deck :) ... From: b5ccglist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:b5ccglist@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 1, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              I'll just make sure to put my my 'anti-fireball' cards into the deck :)


              -----Original Message-----
              From: b5ccglist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:b5ccglist@yahoogroups.com]On
              Behalf Of Michael English
              Sent: 01 September 2009 12:36
              To: b5ccglist@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [B5CCG] The Tech


              Thanks to all who responded - very helpful. I'll circulate the replies
              to those in our group who aren't on this list, but unless anyone strenuously
              objects I will propose that our group carry on doing what we've always done
              and recycle Fireballs and A Warnings with The Tech. I'm not certain it makes
              a huge difference either way so long as we're consistent. What it does mean
              is that I will put the Fireballs back in the new deck I'm building ready for
              next Saturday.

              Michael

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Bruce Mason
              To: b5ccglist@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:17 PM
              Subject: Re: [B5CCG] The Tech

              Always bad news when you have to refer to the intent of a card. Playing
              strictly as written, it's hard to justify being able to recycle a Fireball
              with The Tech however I suspect that almost no-one plays with that level
              of
              strictness and, generally, when everyone thinks a card does something then
              it probably ought to.

              Technically Fireball has no play requirements. It does though have a
              conditional effect:
              effect 1: you can apply an amount of influence to a maximum equal to the
              number of techno-mage cards you control.
              effect 2 (conditional): You can do an amount of damage equal to the amount
              of influence spent on effect 1.

              So, conceptually, you ought to be able to recycle fireball with The Tech
              but
              if you play with cards as written you can't.

              2009/9/1 Manuel Tuthill <manuel@...>

              > When Bruce says "intent of the card" you know that it means trouble :-)
              >
              >
              >
              > While I agree that it should have been played as per Bruces' ruling (and
              > that boldface Techo-mage is what it should read) I think that ruling
              wise I
              > would come down with you Michael you're not "required" to have a
              > "Techno-mage" so therefore you can't retrieve fireball.
              >
              >
              >
              > Manuel
              >
              > _____
              >
              > From: b5ccglist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:b5ccglist@yahoogroups.com] On
              > Behalf
              > Of Bruce Mason
              > Sent: 01 September 2009 08:25
              > To: b5ccglist@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [B5CCG] The Tech
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Personally I would allow it as that seems to be the intent of the card
              in
              > that Fireball has an implicit requirement of requiring at least one
              > techno-mage character or fleet and The Tech, maybe deliberately reads
              > "..event that requires you to control a Techno-mage to play it." i.e.
              you
              > could pick an event that requires a Techno-mage fleet. And yes, you
              could
              > send a 2-pt fireball from orbit with a couple of techno-mage fleets but
              no
              > characters. Ditto if a Techno-mage group or location existed.
              >
              > However this is one of those cases where you could argue both ways.
              >
              > 2009/8/31 Michael English <michael.english@
              >
              <mailto:michael.english%40menglish.force9.co.uk<michael.english%2540menglish
              .force9.co.uk>>
              > menglish.force9.co.uk>
              >
              > > For a long time several of us have been retrieving Fireball events
              using
              > > the Tech. Having just read the Tech's text in a bit more detail, I
              > suddenly
              > > realised that the Tech can't retrieve fireball. Can anyone confirm, or
              > have
              > > I missed something somewhere.
              > >
              > > The card text:
              > >
              > > THE TECH
              > > Must be sponsored by a Techno-mage. Discard this card if you control
              no
              > > Technomages. Your techno-mage characters and fleets have +1 damage
              > > resistance. As an action rotate this card to take from your discard
              pile
              > a
              > > contingency that must target a techno-mage or an event that requires
              you
              > to
              > > control a Techno-mage to play it. Place that card on the bottom of
              your
              > > deck or crusade pile.
              > >
              > > FIREBALL
              > > Target a character controlled by another player. Apply any amount of
              > > incluence when you play this event up to the number of Techno-mage
              > > characters and/or fleets in your faction. Inflict one point of damage
              to
              > > the target for each point of influence you applied.
              > >
              > > As I read it, you can play fireball legitimately without any
              technomage
              > > characters; you can even score damage with it if you have a technomage
              > fleet
              > > (and fleets aren't mentioned in the Tech); so you can't retrieve it
              using
              > > the Tech. A similar issue exists with A Warning, but other technomage
              > > events such as Holo-dragon or Faces In Stone require a techno-mage to
              > rotate
              > > to play and therefore can be retrieved by the Tech.
              > >
              > > Michael
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > Babylon 5 CCG Community E-list.
              > > Keep it fun, keep it friendly, enjoy.
              > > If you have problems with the list contact me at jaxb5ranger@
              > <mailto:jaxb5ranger%40aol.com <jaxb5ranger%2540aol.com>> aol.com.
              > >
              > > Also, check out www.epsilonhex.com for more information about the
              game!
              > >
              > > To unsubscribe email:
              > > b5ccglist-unsubscri
              <mailto:b5ccglist-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.comYahoo<b5ccglist-unsubscribe%2
              540yahoogroups.comYahoo>
              > >
              > be@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Babylon 5 CCG Community E-list.
              > Keep it fun, keep it friendly, enjoy.
              > If you have problems with the list contact me at jaxb5ranger@....
              >
              > Also, check out www.epsilonhex.com for more information about the game!
              >
              > To unsubscribe email:
              > b5ccglist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >

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