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Re: more on Christian Identity

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  • thekoba@aztecfreenet.org
    ... Dear Eric, Definitely it is characteristic of the remnants and descendants of the peasant class, such as it is in the USA, and this class has been
    Message 1 of 3 , Nov 11, 2003
      >Dear Kevin,
      >I guess I just assumed that Butler was a southerner
      >because in my personal experience strong devotion to
      >Old Testament lore seems to be more prevalent in the
      >South. In fact, however, it might be characteristic
      >of most of rural America.

      Dear Eric,

      Definitely it is characteristic of the remnants and
      descendants of the peasant class, such as it is in the
      USA, and this class has been strongest in the South.

      >As regards McManus' enthusiasm for bar fights,
      >apparently they are not inclined to follow Hitler and
      >abstain from alcohol. Hitler never made his personal
      >dietary habits a required or even recommended practice
      >for Germans as a whole, yet in this case, one would
      >think that reason coupled with Hitler's example might
      >encouraged the Aryan Nation group to channel their
      >energy in other directions.

      I'm sure Hitler was practical enough to understand that
      he was not going to convert the German people to
      vegetarianism :-) It's also interesting that, as much as
      Hitler hated hunting and hunters, he signed into law
      the 1938 revision of the gun law that made it easier for
      Germans to obtain hunting weapons and that made a hunting
      license function as a de facto concealed weapons permit.

      >But then, I suppose, this is less a rational strategic
      >response to repression and other social pressures, and
      >more of an "instinctive," or "knee jerk" reaction.

      Yes, and it's definitely the wrong reaction. I'm sure
      the Jews would much rather have us spend our free time
      acting like drunken fools in bars than soberly opposing

      >It's too bad that Butler didn't raise the Iraq war
      >issue, though. That is a vitally important issue now
      >and also one on which they could probably make some
      >points since there is a growing sense that Bush duped
      >the nation into getting into Iraq.
      >On the Mormons, perhaps they don't think they are
      >descendants of the 12 tribes, but they all seem to go
      >in for genealogy, and those whom I know to have
      >"succeeded in tracing their ancestry" all seem to
      >trace their ancestry back to some Biblical patriarch.
      >Again, that's based on my personal experience of some
      >Mormons, though. Perhaps not all do.
      >The Christian identity stuff and Islamic
      >fundamentalism are indeed parallels, I think. Of
      >course the US is an imperialist nation, so that throws
      >an element of confusion into the mix right away, since
      >for many people "identity" is equated with aggressive
      >wars against "others."

      Yes, that is definitely a factor I should have
      included. Another important difference is that
      you don't have the racial animosity among Islamic
      fundamentalists. Imperialism definitely adds that
      to the mix.

      >But for those willing or interested in resistance,
      >Christian identity is one vehicle for it. Are you
      >familiar with the new Mel Gibson film in the making.

      Yes, I thought I sent you my comments on that

      >A great hullaballoo is being raised about it simply
      >because Gibson is trying to follow the accounts in the
      >New Testament which, I believe, basically blame the
      >Jews for Christ's conviction. Jewish groups are
      >saying that this is anti-Semitic.

      As I said, I feel silly discussing questions of fact
      about events two millenia ago, but if we assume that
      the depiction in the Bible is correct, I fail to see
      how it would apply to Jews today. I'm sure our Aryan
      ancestors 2000 years ago in northern Europe did some
      things that we would think extremely uncouth at best,
      but no one would say it reflects upon us (except the
      occasional Jew who likes to gloat at how much older
      his "civilisation" is than ours).

      >In Cincinnati there were several Catholics of, I
      >guess, the old line or whatever it's called who
      >denounce the creeping "Free Masonry" in Catholic
      >church architecture and liturgy, etc.

      I hadn't heard about this, but it's definitely true
      that before the Second Vatican Council, Catholics
      were forbidden from having anything to do with the
      Freemasons. I do remember attending Tom Ceranski's
      wedding in a Catholic Church in central Phoenix
      (St. Mary's Basilica). I was struck by the lack of
      graven images. Whoever heard of a Catholic church
      without graven images?! Maybe that's one of the
      reasons for this group's complaints.

      >A variant on that was those people who analyzed the
      >symbols on the back of the dollar bill, pointing to
      >the pyramid and eye as Masonic symbols and maintaining
      >that the eagle is in fact a Masonic phoenix. Just
      >what difference it makes for us masses whether the
      >dollar bill features Masonic, patriotic, or other
      >symbols is not clear to me, except that I suppose if
      >they are Masonic symbols it indicates the presence of
      >a lot of Masons in positions of power when the bill
      >was designed.

      Well it's no secret that many of the founding fathers
      were Masons, including both George Washington and
      Alexander Hamilton. The Masons have a policy of making
      every United States President a 33rd degree Mason (the
      highest degree). Naturally, as a Catholic, Kennedy
      had to refuse the honour. Some conspiracy buffs say
      that was a fatal mistake on his part :-)

      >To me much of this seems nonsensical in if looked at
      >abstractly in philosophical terms. But socially all
      >these theories and ideas reflect intense suspicion and
      >rejection of liberalism and Zionism and the
      >established governmental bureaucracy, so it has
      >progressive significance, objectively. I found it
      >interesting that their hostililty to the Free Masons
      >is mirrored in the same sort of concern among Islamic

      Well the Masons tried to infiltrate the Arab world
      around 1940, but I think this was exposed as some
      kind of Zionist and imperialist front, and that was
      what angered many Arabs and Muslims.

      >In both cases of Christian identity and Islamic
      >fundamentalism the believers are apt to shoot
      >themselves in the foot too.
      >The Christian identity people can fall into hostility
      >to non-Christian groups and the Islamic
      >fundamentalists set out to purify Muslim societies of
      >"un-Islamic" practices, and so they often denounce
      >normal citizens who are not ultra religious as
      >"apostates", that in addition to a tendency to regard
      >all non-Muslims as legal targets regardless of their
      >political roles. The result is spectacular attacks on
      >night clubs that kill tourists but don't harm the US,
      >or bloody attacks on Russians that tend to push Moscow
      >closer to Tel Aviv and Washington, and now possibly
      >attacks in Saudi Arabia where the targets seem to be
      >poorly chosen.
      >But it's important in both cases to look at these
      >groups not in an abstract, laboratory sort of way, but
      >in their social context. Only such Marxists as are
      >able to see the spontaneous revolutionary features of
      >such groups will be able to offer a more scientific
      >outlook. The "Marxists" who prefer to stand with
      >imperialism deserve to fall with it too.

      Yes, and it's strange that I find more sense in the
      far right in the USA than the far "left".


    • thekoba@aztecfreenet.org
      ... Dear Eric, Many thanks for this reference and the report on the bombing in Riyadh. Comradely, Kevin
      Message 2 of 3 , Nov 12, 2003
        >Dear Kevin,
        >Now that you mention it, yes we did discuss The
        >Passion and Mel Gibson. Paranoia seems to be a Jewish
        >trait these days such that any portrayal of any Jew in
        >a bad light upsets them.
        >As to the architectural matters in the Catholic
        >Church, check out:
        >There is a link on that home page (scroll down and
        >it's on the right hand side of the page as you look at
        >it) to a story about "who is changing the architecture
        >of Catholic Churches" or something like that.
        >Like many rightist sites, this one mixes the very good
        >with the absurd. An example of the latter is their
        >"vindication of Senator Joe McCarthy" who was both
        >anti-Communist and Catholic, I suppose. (McCarthy
        >actually had two very zealous Jewish aids, whose names
        >I can't remember. I think maybe Cohen and Stern, but
        >I'm not sure. So for those who like to denounce
        >"Communism, the Jewish conspiracy" that fact about
        >McCarthy might be "confusing."
        >I don't know much about Masons in the Arab and Islamic
        >world. I think there was some Masonic activity
        >already around 1900, but I know very little about

        Dear Eric,

        Many thanks for this reference and the report on the bombing
        in Riyadh.


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