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families of soldiers demand their return

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  • thekoba@aztecfreenet.org
    Some interesting developments are hidden inside this article, attributed to Niko Price of the Associated Press, which appeared on page A15 of the Wendesday,
    Message 1 of 8 , Aug 13, 2003
      Some interesting developments are hidden inside this article, attributed to
      Niko Price of the Associated Press, which appeared on page A15 of the
      Wendesday, August 13, 2003 edition of The Arizona Republic.

      --Kevin Walsh

      U.S. TROOPS IN IRAQ TO SERVE ONE YEAR; THAT'S NEWS TO SOME

      Baghdad--All troops in Iraq should expect to serve for at least a year, with
      brief rest breaks in the region and possibly a few days at home, the
      commander of U.S. forces said Tuesday. That came as news to some soldiers.

      "It's a one-year rotation," Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez told the
      Associated Press in an interview. "Every soldier has been told that they'll
      be deployed for a year, and then at the end of the year we'll be working to
      send them home."

      But some of the 148,000 soldiers in Iraq said nobody told them how long they
      would remain in the country, where guerrillas attack Americans daily and
      high temperatures often top 120 degrees [49 C].

      Private First Class Deacon Finkle, 20, of Dallas, screwed up his face, red
      from the heat, when asked how long he would be in Iraq.

      "Don't know. No idea," he said.

      Specialist Jeff Ross, perched atop a bridge overlooking Baghdad's dangerous
      Airport Highway, knew he was scheduled to be in Iraq for a year, saying, "We
      really don't have a choice."

      The issue of soldiers' tours has been contentious, with troops and their
      families posting missives on the Internet criticizing their government for
      keeping U.S. forces in Iraq.

      "They need to come home!" Kimberly, the wife of a reservist deployed in
      February, wrote on the Web site of the support organization Military
      Families Speak Out.

      "Our unit has not redeployment date in sight, and we are constantly told
      that they may even be extended."

      Sanchez said commanders are working hard to make soldiers' lives more
      bearable, and many soldiers said they are getting new creature comforts
      such as better food, more air-conditioning and access to television and
      the Internet.

      "We've been doing a tremendous amount for them," Sanchez said in his office
      in Saddam Hussein's former palace, a copy of former New York City Mayor
      Rudolph Giuliani's "Leadership" displayed on the bookshelf.

      "They get pulled off-line for two or three days, and they get to rest in an
      environment that is essentially stress-free, as much as you can be inside of
      Iraq," he said.

      "They've got Internet, they'll get TV, they'll have air-conditioned space,
      they'll get hot meals. In some places they have swimming pools, so we kind
      of get them to relax."

      But on the Web site, some soldiers' families criticized the vacations, saying
      commanders should instead work on getting the soldiers home for good.

      "My son-in-law has been in Iraq since March...He has been given orders that
      extend his stay until JULY 2004," reads a message signed "Bette" on the Web
      site of Military Families Speak Out.

      "His company just had a two-day vacation(?!) in Qatar. President Bush has
      just left for his MONTHLONG vacation on his ranch in Crawford, Texas. Let's
      send all of the troops to President Bush's ranch."

      [Better yet, send President Bush to Iraq :-) --Kevin]
    • mike ross
      just like vietnam. the newspapers are printing a summary each days of the number of americans killed and a summary of how many of them we killed. just like
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 14, 2003
        just like vietnam. the newspapers are printing
        a summary each days of the number of americans
        killed and a summary of how many of them
        we killed.

        just like vietnam. serve for a year and go home.

        just like vietnam a stupid senseless war!



        ---- Begin Original Message ----
        From: thekoba@...
        Sent: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 22:21:09 -0700 (MST)
        To: azsecularhumanists@yahoogroups.com
        CC: alloush44@..., cbpeek@...,
        deadnextdoor@...,proton@..., abikani@...,
        nebukhadhnasar@...,llnicol@..., nsubufa@...,
        lilyasirah@...
        Subject: [azsecularhumanists] families of soldiers demand their return



        Some interesting developments are hidden inside this article, attributed to
        Niko Price of the Associated Press, which appeared on page A15 of the
        Wendesday, August 13, 2003 edition of The Arizona Republic.

        --Kevin Walsh

        U.S. TROOPS IN IRAQ TO SERVE ONE YEAR; THAT'S NEWS TO SOME

        Baghdad--All troops in Iraq should expect to serve for at least a year, with
        brief rest breaks in the region and possibly a few days at home, the
        commander of U.S. forces said Tuesday.  That came as news to some soldiers.

        "It's a one-year rotation," Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez told the
        Associated Press in an interview.  "Every soldier has been told that they'll
        be deployed for a year, and then at the end of the year we'll be working to
        send them home."

        But some of the 148,000 soldiers in Iraq said nobody told them how long they
        would remain in the country, where guerrillas attack Americans daily and
        high temperatures often top 120 degrees [49 C].

        Private First Class Deacon Finkle, 20, of Dallas, screwed up his face, red
        from the heat, when asked how long he would be in Iraq.

        "Don't know.  No idea," he said.

        Specialist Jeff Ross, perched atop a bridge overlooking Baghdad's dangerous
        Airport Highway, knew he was scheduled to be in Iraq for a year, saying, "We
        really don't have a choice."

        The issue of soldiers' tours has been contentious, with troops and their
        families posting missives on the Internet criticizing their government for
        keeping U.S. forces in Iraq.

        "They need to come home!" Kimberly, the wife of a reservist deployed in
        February, wrote on the Web site of the support organization Military
        Families Speak Out.

        "Our unit has not redeployment date in sight, and we are constantly told
        that they may even be extended."

        Sanchez said commanders are working hard to make soldiers' lives more
        bearable, and many soldiers said they are getting new creature comforts
        such as better food, more air-conditioning and access to television and
        the Internet.

        "We've been doing a tremendous amount for them," Sanchez said in his office
        in Saddam Hussein's former palace, a copy of former New York City Mayor
        Rudolph Giuliani's "Leadership" displayed on the bookshelf.

        "They get pulled off-line for two or three days, and they get to rest in an
        environment that is essentially stress-free, as much as you can be inside of
        Iraq," he said.

        "They've got Internet, they'll get TV, they'll have air-conditioned space,
        they'll get hot meals.  In some places they have swimming pools, so we kind
        of get them to relax."

        But on the Web site, some soldiers' families criticized the vacations, saying
        commanders should instead work on getting the soldiers home for good.

        "My son-in-law has been in Iraq since March...He has been given orders that
        extend his stay until JULY 2004," reads a message signed "Bette" on the Web
        site of Military Families Speak Out.

        "His company just had a two-day vacation(?!) in Qatar.  President Bush has
        just left for his MONTHLONG vacation on his ranch in Crawford, Texas.  Let's
        send all of the troops to President Bush's ranch."

        [Better yet, send President Bush to Iraq :-) --Kevin]



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        ---- End Original Message ----



        When the government fears the people,
        that is LIBERTY. When people fear the
        government, that is TYRANNY.

        Thomas Jefferson
        Premium Accounts for Legal Professionals
        http://1stcounsel.com/
      • thekoba@aztecfreenet.org
        ... Yes, Mike, it seems hard to believe the American people have forgotten that lesson and need to learn it again. I was only an infant at the time of the
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 14, 2003
          >
          >just like vietnam. the newspapers are printing
          >a summary each days of the number of americans
          >killed and a summary of how many of them
          >we killed.
          >
          >just like vietnam. serve for a year and go home.
          >
          >just like vietnam a stupid senseless war!

          Yes, Mike, it seems hard to believe the American people have
          forgotten that lesson and need to learn it again. I was only
          an infant at the time of the Vietnam War, but one of my
          summer camp counselors taught me a satirical song about
          it that you will probably remember. For some reason my parents
          were not pleased that I had learned that song.

          --Kevin

          One two three, what are we fighting for
          I don't know, I don't give a damn
          Next stop is Vietnam
          Five six seven, open up the Pearly Gates
          Ain't no time to question why
          Whoopee! We're all gonna die.

          --Country Joe and the Fish
        • thekoba@aztecfreenet.org
          Dear Eric, Thank you for this commentary and the commentary on the Dallas newspaper article on President Castro. ... I think it s Daley. ... I m sure this
          Message 4 of 8 , Aug 14, 2003
            Dear Eric,

            Thank you for this commentary and the commentary on
            the Dallas newspaper article on President Castro.

            >Dear Kevin,
            >
            >Yes I remember that song.
            >
            >It seems to me, though, that there was much more
            >publicity given to the US casualties in Viet Nam than
            >is being given to US casualties in Iraq. Of course it
            >took a long time for the mood in the US (that is, for
            >the liberal press) to turn against the war. This it
            >did in the summer of 1968 if not before (that was when
            >demonstrators and TV crews were clubbed down violently
            >at the Democratic National Convention in Chicago by
            >Mayor Richard Dailey (spelling?)'s Chicago police.

            I think it's Daley.

            >Today the media are either violently in favor or
            >mildly in favour of US aggression in Iraq. Obviously
            >the Jewish element in the media were often hostile to
            >the Viet Nam war which was of no use to them, while a
            >war to decimate Iraq IS of use to the Zionist colony
            >in Palestine. This is a reason why the media will
            >probably be slow to turn against the Iraq occupation.
            >Add to that the economic involvement of big finance
            >capital and oil as well as the strategic nature of the
            >Arab region in general and it all makes it very
            >unlikely that the media will ever take a firmly
            >anti-war stance.
            >
            >More likely it will criticise details about the
            >"handling" of the war. An example of that was the
            >recent New York Times article that once again told of
            >the US using vast sums of money to corrup and buy off
            >Iraqi commanders, including allegedly the Defense
            >Minister Sultan Hashem Ahmad. The article went on to
            >say that more and more people in the Washington think
            >it was a mistake for Bush not to try to use these
            >bought-off generals to keep peace and order in Iraq.
            >
            >I think it most unlikely that any Iraqis would accept
            >a puppet government of bought off traitors any more
            >than they accept the current Council of No-Accounts
            >under Bremer. Still, that is the kind of "criticism"
            >that we can expect from the "independent media" and
            >that the Democrats are likely to level at Bush, the
            >war is not Wrong, they'll say, but he's handling it
            >badly.
            >
            >I was pleased yesterday to hear of an organization
            >being formed calling for the return of the troops.
            >The woman who apparently leads it said that letters
            >from her soldier son in Iraq indicated that "dozens of
            >daily attacks on US troops" go unreported.
            >
            >I know that there was a colossal "credibility gap"
            >between what Washington said and what the reality on
            >the ground in Viet Nam was, and I know that the US
            >regularly grossly exaggerated the effectiveness of its
            >bombing and destruction in the Democratic Republic of
            >Viet Nam (as North Viet Nam was then called). I am
            >not aware that the US tried to cover up the deaths of
            >Americans in Viet Nam, however. This effort in Iraq
            >seems to be a new "wrinkle."
            >
            >In other Iraqi news, apparently Saddam Hussein sent a
            >letter in which he praised the Shi'ite shaykh Sistani
            >for some mild opposition of his to the occupation and
            >urged him and the Shi'ite Hawza or council to declare
            >a jihad against the occupation and thereby unite the
            >people of Iraq against the occupation.
            >
            >Sistani and the Shiite council responded by rejecting
            >Saddam's call for jihad and said that Saddam should
            >recall the "pain" he inflicted on the Shi'a. Aside
            >from the fact that most such "pain" was inflicted on
            >the Shi'i religious leaders who often had an
            >anti-government agenda, the call to jihad in defense
            >of the nation is not related to the issue of past
            >regimes. It is related to the occupation. period.
            >Therefore Sistani and the Shiite religious leaders
            >are, in my humble opinion, acting as traitors.
            >
            >Incidentally the head of the Da'wah party that is
            >linked with the Shiite "opposition" that supposedly
            >raised the rebellion in 1991 is now first head of
            >Bremer's council. That should give further evidence
            >of what kind of "rebellion" that was in 1991 - in fact
            >it was transparently Iranian backed.
            >
            >Iran might think it will get brownie points for
            >keeping the lid on the Shi'a of Iraq. This is poor
            >strategy, as well as immoral, however. In tomorrow's
            >al-Quds al-Arabi they quote the Washington Post to the
            >effect that the Bush administration is worried that
            >"Israel" might take unilateral bombing action against
            >the Iranian nuclear facilities.
            >
            >That is a good cop-bad cop scenario if you ask me: the
            >US warns the Iranians that "Israel" might come after
            >them if they don't cooperate with the US. It might be
            >true, but cooperating with the US amounts to virtually
            >the same thing.
            >
            >Comradely,
            >
            >Eric

            I'm sure this Shi'a misleadership is not representative
            of the bulk of the Shi'a population of Iraq, which,
            whatever their theological differences with President
            Hussein, must know that maintaining an imperialist
            Zionist occupation is not in their national interest.
            It is certainly to President Hussein's credit that he
            is reaching out even to those who have been his deadly
            enemies in the past.

            Comradely,

            Kevin
          • mike ross
            yea i used to know the fixing to die rag by heart. mike ... From: thekoba@aztecfreenet.org Sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 19:41:08 -0700 (MST) To:
            Message 5 of 8 , Aug 15, 2003
              yea i used to know the fixing
              to die rag by heart.

              mike
              ---- Begin Original Message ----

              From: thekoba@...
              Sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 19:41:08 -0700 (MST)
              To: azsecularhumanists@yahoogroups.com
              CC: nebukhadhnasar@..., llnicol@...,
              alloush44@...,cbpeek@...
              Subject: Re: [azsecularhumanists] families of
              soldiers demand their return




              >
              >just like vietnam. the newspapers are printing
              >a summary each days of the number of americans
              >killed and a summary of how many of them
              >we killed.
              >
              >just like vietnam. serve for a year and go home.
              >
              >just like vietnam a stupid senseless war!

              Yes, Mike, it seems hard to believe the American
              people have
              forgotten that lesson and need to learn it
              again.  I was only
              an infant at the time of the Vietnam War, but
              one of my
              summer camp counselors taught me a satirical
              song about
              it that you will probably remember.  For some
              reason my parents
              were not pleased that I had learned that song.

              --Kevin

              One two three, what are we fighting for
              I don't know, I don't give a damn
              Next stop is Vietnam
              Five six seven, open up the Pearly Gates
              Ain't no time to question why
              Whoopee!  We're all gonna die.

              --Country Joe and the Fish


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              ---- End Original Message ----




              When the government fears the people,
              that is LIBERTY. When people fear the
              government, that is TYRANNY.

              Thomas Jefferson
              Premium Accounts for Legal Professionals
              http://1stcounsel.com/
            • mike ross
              i wasnt a good loyal government loving american in those days either. when i registered for the draft i dont remember the details but i wrote something to the
              Message 6 of 8 , Aug 15, 2003
                i wasnt a good loyal government loving
                american in those days either.

                when i registered for the draft
                i dont remember the details but
                i wrote something to the effect
                that if they drafted me i would
                fuck with them badly. i put notes
                on it that i knew how to pick locks
                and make explosives and i would be
                nothing but trouble for them if
                i was drafted.

                it worked many months later i
                got a letter in the mail which
                i thought was my draft notice.

                after opening it i discovered
                they had classified me as 1Y
                which means they would have
                drafted me at the same time
                they started dragging people
                out of mental institutions
                and prisons to ship off to
                vietnam. luckly the war didnt
                get that bad.

                and then when they had the
                drawing for numbers i lucked
                out and my number was something
                like 360.


                ---- Begin Original Message ----

                From: thekoba@...
                Sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 19:41:08 -0700 (MST)
                To: azsecularhumanists@yahoogroups.com
                CC: nebukhadhnasar@..., llnicol@...,
                alloush44@...,cbpeek@...
                Subject: Re: [azsecularhumanists] families of
                soldiers demand their return




                >
                >just like vietnam. the newspapers are printing
                >a summary each days of the number of americans
                >killed and a summary of how many of them
                >we killed.
                >
                >just like vietnam. serve for a year and go home.
                >
                >just like vietnam a stupid senseless war!

                Yes, Mike, it seems hard to believe the American
                people have
                forgotten that lesson and need to learn it
                again.  I was only
                an infant at the time of the Vietnam War, but
                one of my
                summer camp counselors taught me a satirical
                song about
                it that you will probably remember.  For some
                reason my parents
                were not pleased that I had learned that song.

                --Kevin

                One two three, what are we fighting for
                I don't know, I don't give a damn
                Next stop is Vietnam
                Five six seven, open up the Pearly Gates
                Ain't no time to question why
                Whoopee!  We're all gonna die.

                --Country Joe and the Fish


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                Community email addresses:
                 Post message: azsecularhumanists@onelist.com
                 Subscribe:    azsecularhumanists-
                subscribe@onelist.com
                 Unsubscribe:  azsecularhumanists-
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                 List owner:   azsecularhumanists-
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                ists

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                ---- End Original Message ----




                When the government fears the people,
                that is LIBERTY. When people fear the
                government, that is TYRANNY.

                Thomas Jefferson
                Premium Accounts for Legal Professionals
                http://1stcounsel.com/
              • thekoba@aztecfreenet.org
                ... Good for you, Mike! We can t dismiss the possiblity that there may be an attempt to reintroduce conscription as this war drags on. Convincing the
                Message 7 of 8 , Aug 15, 2003
                  >
                  >i wasnt a good loyal government loving
                  >american in those days either.
                  >
                  >when i registered for the draft
                  >i dont remember the details but
                  >i wrote something to the effect
                  >that if they drafted me i would
                  >fuck with them badly. i put notes
                  >on it that i knew how to pick locks
                  >and make explosives and i would be
                  >nothing but trouble for them if
                  >i was drafted.
                  >
                  >it worked many months later i
                  >got a letter in the mail which
                  >i thought was my draft notice.
                  >
                  >after opening it i discovered
                  >they had classified me as 1Y
                  >which means they would have
                  >drafted me at the same time
                  >they started dragging people
                  >out of mental institutions
                  >and prisons to ship off to
                  >vietnam. luckly the war didnt
                  >get that bad.
                  >
                  >and then when they had the
                  >drawing for numbers i lucked
                  >out and my number was something
                  >like 360.

                  Good for you, Mike!

                  We can't dismiss the possiblity that there may be an attempt to
                  reintroduce conscription as this war drags on. Convincing the
                  authorities that one is more trouble than one is worth is a good
                  way to get out of it, as you illustrated. Another good response
                  would be, "You want to have your officers fragged and your troops
                  shot in the back, by all means draft me. I'd be happy to serve
                  the Iraqi people that way." :-)

                  --Kevin
                • thekoba@aztecfreenet.org
                  ================= Begin forwarded message ================= Dear Kevin, I still remember my draft lottery number was 254 and they didn t get that far so they
                  Message 8 of 8 , Aug 17, 2003
                    ================= Begin forwarded message =================

                    Dear Kevin,

                    I still remember my draft "lottery" number was 254 and
                    they didn't get that far so they never had to deal
                    with me.

                    Actually I was ready to just leave the country.

                    I confined my protests, though to raising all sorts of
                    irritating questions during the registration
                    procedure. These days the young guys go online and
                    fill in some online form or go to the post office and
                    fill in a card. But then (at least in my case in
                    Chicago) you had to go to the Selective Service
                    office, pick a number and sit, under the portrait of
                    Richard Nixon, and wait to talk with some clerk who
                    would ask you questions and fill in a form (I guess
                    that way you couldn't write nasty notes to them).

                    I remember in particular that the woman asked me for
                    the name, address, and phone number of someone who
                    would know where to reach me 24 hours a day. I asked
                    her if that person had to be a US citizen. That was
                    another question she had to ask her supervisor, so she
                    disappeared and mustn't have come back for 15 minutes.
                    I realize I prolonged the process for myself, but it
                    was some sort of retaliation.

                    Comradely,

                    Eric
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