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Re: [AZ] Re:How to view photos?

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  • Dave Banks
    Mike, You really should downsize your photos, otherwise people with dial-up will take long periods to download and message size will be huge. Taking the
    Message 1 of 28 , Aug 14, 2007
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      Mike,

      You really should downsize your photos, otherwise people with dial-up will take long periods to download and message size will be huge. Taking the photos at full resolution is ideal. Sending them on the net is another thing. IF they are to be viewed on the screen, max screen resolution is 72 dpi (vs 300-600 for the camera, or for printers). I usually try to reduce things to 400 x 400 pixels, or even 600 x 600 pixels, to put them on a web site for instance.

      IF you are sending them for publication (hard copy) however, then by all means send them at max resolution.... The above applies strictly to posting on e-lists, posting to websites, etc.

      Dave Banks

      -----Original Message-----
      >From: Mike Creel <mikeacreel@...>
      >Sent: Aug 14, 2007 9:20 PM
      >To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Re: [AZ] Re:How to view photos?
      >
      >Since I take all my digital photos at peak resolution
      >with a 5 megapixel camera, will inserting the photo
      >within the email message area automatically reduce the
      >memory size to a proportional size so it doesn't
      >overwhelm the message, OR do I need to greatly
      >downsize photos that I insert (paste) into the
      >message?Mike Creel, SC
      >
      >--- Chris Klapwijk <ChrisK@...> wrote:
      >
      >> Mike, check your settings: on the Outlook Express
      >> menu bar go to Tools > Options > Send > Mail Sending
      >> Format: make sure it is set to HTML.
      >>
      >> From there, for any new message, go to the new
      >> message menu bar Insert > Picture
      >>
      >> Chris Klapwijk
      >> Surrey, BC
      >>
      >>
      >> ----- Original Message -----
      >> From: "Mike Creel" <mikeacreel@...>
      >> To: <azaleas@yahoogroups.com>
      >> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 3:14 PM
      >> Subject: RE: [AZ] Re:How to view photos?
      >>
      >>
      >> How about photos pasted into the message area? I
      >> cannot do it with my current email (Outlook
      >> Express6) but other people can.
      >>
      >> Mike Creel, SC
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
    • Bob Stelloh
      Steve, For the record, it is Yahoo that doesn t keep images in the daily digest nor in the archives -- the list owner has no control over that. The idea of
      Message 2 of 28 , Aug 14, 2007
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        Steve,

        For the record, it is Yahoo that doesn't keep images in the daily
        digest nor in the archives -- the list owner has no control over that.

        The idea of putting the images online somewhere and putting a link to
        them in your email to the azaleas mail list is good. It takes more
        effort than attaching an image to an email, but not much more effort.
        It can be done with flickr, and it can also be done in the azaleas
        mail list Photos section with possibly less effort --
        - click the Visit Your Group link or the
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/azaleas/ link at the bottom of any
        message to get to our home page
        - click the Photos link along the left margin
        - click Add Photo or Create Album, and
        -follow the prompts from then on.

        We already have some pictures there, including some you put there,
        eg, a gorgeous picture of 'Purple Splendor' at
        http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/azaleas/photos/view/78f0?b=3&m=f&o=0
        . Note we have a 100MB total file space limit there, so it would be
        good to follow the same guidelines shown on the bottom of every
        email, of resizing and compressing the images to around 640x480
        pixels and less than 100KB.

        Regards,
        Bob Stelloh Hendersonville NC USDA Zone 7


        At 2:09 PM -0400 on 8/14/07, S. M. Henning wrote
        Hi Eddie,

        You have hit on a sore point with me. The people that send photos in
        posting are people who read each posting as an individual email. For
        those with spam guards and other security measures that prohibit the
        receiving of email from unknown sources can't do this, must use the
        daily digest form. Many of us just plain like the daily digest and
        don't want email trickling in. Unfortunately the Azalea Group does
        not send those of us using the daily digest the photos, nor for that
        matter do they save any of these photos. They are lost. They are
        not available anywhere. There are many services that will post
        photos for free, but most people are too lazy to use them. Here is an
        excellent one for anyone who want to use it. It is
        <http://www.flickr.com> which is part of Yahoo and uses the same
        password and login as the Azalea Group. Here is an example of
        posting a clickable link of a photo (Az. Fairfax):

        <http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1060/1117056443_b307779690.jpg?v=0>

        For those that want a user friendly site, please post clickable
        links, not photos.

        Thank you.
        --
        Cheers, Steve Henning, Valley Forge Chapter, ARS; PA, USA Zone 6

        http://rhodyman.net/rasite.html

        http://rhodyman.net/VFARSHistory.html
      • Harold Greer
        Hello All, To be very honest, if I can t attach an occasional photo when called for, I just won t use photos at all. This link business while not hard, but
        Message 3 of 28 , Aug 14, 2007
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          Hello All,

           

          To be very honest, if I can’t attach an occasional photo when called for, I just won’t use photos at all.  This link business while not hard, but often requires you to log in as in the link below you are referred to the ‘Purple Splendor’ photo.  It is just not worth the effort.  If some people can’t get the photo, so be it.  If they wish the photos they can change how they receive messages.  The photos sent on this group are not spam.

           

          Harold Greer

           

           


          From: azaleas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:azaleas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Stelloh
          Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 10:51 PM
          To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [AZ] Re:How to view photos?

           

          Steve,

          For the record, it is Yahoo that doesn't keep images in the daily
          digest nor in the archives -- the list owner has no control over that.

          The idea of putting the images online somewhere and putting a link to
          them in your email to the azaleas mail list is good. It takes more
          effort than attaching an image to an email, but not much more effort.
          It can be done with flickr, and it can also be done in the azaleas
          mail list Photos section with possibly less effort --
          - click the Visit Your Group link or the
          http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/azaleas/ link at the bottom of any
          message to get to our home page
          - click the Photos link along the left margin
          - click Add Photo or Create Album, and
          -follow the prompts from then on.

          We already have some pictures there, including some you put there,
          eg, a gorgeous picture of 'Purple Splendor' at
          http://tech. ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/azaleas/ photos/view/ 78f0?b=3& m=f&o=0
          . Note we have a 100MB total file space limit there, so it would be
          good to follow the same guidelines shown on the bottom of every
          email, of resizing and compressing the images to around 640x480
          pixels and less than 100KB.

          Regards,
          Bob Stelloh Hendersonville NC USDA Zone 7

          At 2:09 PM -0400 on 8/14/07, S. M. Henning wrote
          Hi Eddie,

          You have hit on a sore point with me. The people that send photos in
          posting are people who read each posting as an individual email. For
          those with spam guards and other security measures that prohibit the
          receiving of email from unknown sources can't do this, must use the
          daily digest form. Many of us just plain like the daily digest and
          don't want email trickling in. Unfortunately the Azalea Group does
          not send those of us using the daily digest the photos, nor for that
          matter do they save any of these photos. They are lost. They are
          not available anywhere. There are many services that will post
          photos for free, but most people are too lazy to use them. Here is an
          excellent one for anyone who want to use it. It is
          <http://www.flickr. com> which is part of Yahoo and uses the same
          password and login as the Azalea Group. Here is an example of
          posting a clickable link of a photo (Az. Fairfax):

          <http://farm2. static.flickr. com/1060/ 1117056443_ b307779690. jpg?v=0>

          For those that want a user friendly site, please post clickable
          links, not photos.

          Thank you.
          --
          Cheers, Steve Henning, Valley Forge Chapter, ARS; PA, USA Zone 6

          http://rhodyman. net/rasite. html

          http://rhodyman. net/VFARSHistory .html

        • Nicholas Yarmoshuk
          It can also be done very easily in Picasas under Google. Besides . . that allows you to archive photos. Granted this archiving is not at full size. Nick
          Message 4 of 28 , Aug 15, 2007
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            It can also be done very easily in Picasas under Google. Besides . . that allows you to archive photos.  Granted this archiving is not at full size. 
            Nick Yarmoshuk

             
            On 8/15/07, Bob Stelloh <bstelloh@...> wrote:

            Steve,

            For the record, it is Yahoo that doesn't keep images in the daily
            digest nor in the archives -- the list owner has no control over that.

            The idea of putting the images online somewhere and putting a link to
            them in your email to the azaleas mail list is good. It takes more
            effort than attaching an image to an email, but not much more effort.
            It can be done with flickr, and it can also be done in the azaleas
            mail list Photos section with possibly less effort --
            - click the Visit Your Group link or the
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/azaleas/ link at the bottom of any
            message to get to our home page
            - click the Photos link along the left margin
            - click Add Photo or Create Album, and
            -follow the prompts from then on.

            We already have some pictures there, including some you put there,
            eg, a gorgeous picture of 'Purple Splendor' at
            http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/azaleas/photos/view/78f0?b=3&m=f&o=0
            . Note we have a 100MB total file space limit there, so it would be
            good to follow the same guidelines shown on the bottom of every
            email, of resizing and compressing the images to around 640x480
            pixels and less than 100KB.

            Regards,
            Bob Stelloh Hendersonville NC USDA Zone 7

            At 2:09 PM -0400 on 8/14/07, S. M. Henning wrote


            Hi Eddie,

            You have hit on a sore point with me. The people that send photos in
            posting are people who read each posting as an individual email. For
            those with spam guards and other security measures that prohibit the
            receiving of email from unknown sources can't do this, must use the
            daily digest form. Many of us just plain like the daily digest and
            don't want email trickling in. Unfortunately the Azalea Group does
            not send those of us using the daily digest the photos, nor for that
            matter do they save any of these photos. They are lost. They are
            not available anywhere. There are many services that will post
            photos for free, but most people are too lazy to use them. Here is an
            excellent one for anyone who want to use it. It is
            <http://www.flickr.com> which is part of Yahoo and uses the same
            password and login as the Azalea Group. Here is an example of
            posting a clickable link of a photo (Az. Fairfax):

            < http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1060/1117056443_b307779690.jpg?v=0>

            For those that want a user friendly site, please post clickable
            links, not photos.

            Thank you.
            --
            Cheers, Steve Henning, Valley Forge Chapter, ARS; PA, USA Zone 6

            http://rhodyman.net/rasite.html

            http://rhodyman.net/VFARSHistory.html


          • Nicholas Yarmoshuk
            No it won t. Depending upon the recipient s service, it could become a download problem unles the person has a HiSpeed connection. Besides when viewed this
            Message 5 of 28 , Aug 15, 2007
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              No it won't. Depending upon the recipient's service, it could become a download problem unles the person has a HiSpeed connection.  Besides when viewed this size of insert will be impossibly large on the screen.
              Nick Yarmoshuk

               
              On 8/14/07, Mike Creel <mikeacreel@...> wrote:

              Since I take all my digital photos at peak resolution
              with a 5 megapixel camera, will inserting the photo
              within the email message area automatically reduce the
              memory size to a proportional size so it doesn't
              overwhelm the message, OR do I need to greatly
              downsize photos that I insert (paste) into the
              message?Mike Creel, SC



              --- Chris Klapwijk <ChrisK@...> wrote:

              > Mike, check your settings: on the Outlook Express
              > menu bar go to Tools > Options > Send > Mail Sending
              > Format: make sure it is set to HTML.
              >
              > From there, for any new message, go to the new
              > message menu bar Insert > Picture
              >
              > Chris Klapwijk
              > Surrey, BC
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Mike Creel" < mikeacreel@...>
              > To: <azaleas@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 3:14 PM
              > Subject: RE: [AZ] Re:How to view photos?
              >
              >
              > How about photos pasted into the message area? I
              > cannot do it with my current email (Outlook
              > Express6) but other people can.
              >
              > Mike Creel, SC
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >


            • Mike Creel
              Thank you Dave. I just recently found a pretty easy way in PhotoShop to downsize photos to a stark minimum. I recentlly sent some images to the azalea group
              Message 6 of 28 , Aug 15, 2007
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                Thank you Dave. I just recently found a pretty easy
                way in PhotoShop to downsize photos to a stark
                minimum. I recentlly sent some images to the azalea
                group that were around 20 KB each, and still looked
                okay. I am a pretty fair photographer, but a novice
                in photo editing.
                Thanks again.
                Mike Creel

                --- Dave Banks <dfbanks@...> wrote:

                > Mike,
                >
                > You really should downsize your photos, otherwise
                > people with dial-up will take long periods to
                > download and message size will be huge. Taking the
                > photos at full resolution is ideal. Sending them on
                > the net is another thing. IF they are to be viewed
                > on the screen, max screen resolution is 72 dpi (vs
                > 300-600 for the camera, or for printers). I usually
                > try to reduce things to 400 x 400 pixels, or even
                > 600 x 600 pixels, to put them on a web site for
                > instance.
                >
                > IF you are sending them for publication (hard copy)
                > however, then by all means send them at max
                > resolution.... The above applies strictly to posting
                > on e-lists, posting to websites, etc.
                >
                > Dave Banks
              • S. M. Henning
                ... Hi Mike, They won t make it through. Rather than downsize, just log onto http://www.flickr.com and upload it. Then post a link
                Message 7 of 28 , Aug 15, 2007
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                  Mike Creel, SC wrote:

                  >Since I take all my digital photos at peak resolution
                  >with a 5 megapixel camera, will inserting the photo
                  >within the email message area automatically reduce the
                  >memory size to a proportional size so it doesn't
                  >overwhelm the message, OR do I need to greatly
                  >downsize photos that I insert (paste) into the
                  >message?

                  Hi Mike,

                  They won't make it through. Rather than downsize, just log onto
                  <<http://www.flickr.com>http://www.flickr.com> and upload it. Then
                  post a link to it. The photo is already downsized to four different
                  sizes. Most people would probably like Medium.

                  Thumbnail (100 x 82)
                  Small (240 x 197)
                  Medium (500 x 411)
                  Large (1024 x 841)

                  It is free, fast and easy. No fuss and no muss and user friendly.

                  It is there if a new group member wants to go back and look at it
                  later or one of us accidently erases our email. It is a win-win
                  situation. Posting temporary photographs doesn't make sense.

                  --
                  Cheers, Steve Henning, Valley Forge Chapter, ARS; PA, USA Zone 6

                  http://rhodyman.net/rasite.html

                  http://rhodyman.net/VFARSHistory.html
                • Sally/John Perkins
                  Mike Picasa can reduce photos. I use Irfanview. Sally uses Outlook to reduce photos when she is emailing them. Having created web sites, web albums, and added
                  Message 8 of 28 , Aug 15, 2007
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                    Mike

                    Picasa can reduce photos. I use Irfanview. Sally uses Outlook to reduce
                    photos when she is emailing them.

                    Having created web sites, web albums, and added images to blogs I can say
                    that attaching images to emails is by far the easiest way to send images.
                    The other ways may not be hard but it involves more steps. Even if you
                    already have them in a tool like Picasa, creating a web album and creating a
                    link to the album in the email is much more involved than merely emailing
                    them especially if the email program supports image reduction which many do.

                    In general, making it harder for someone to email an image is a choice.
                    Telling the sender to work harder so the receiver can be in their comfort
                    zone is in my opinion expecting a lot.

                    John Perkins
                    Salem, NH

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: azaleas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:azaleas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                    S. M. Henning
                    Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 12:26 PM
                    To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [AZ] Re: How to view photos?

                    Mike Creel, SC wrote:

                    >Since I take all my digital photos at peak resolution
                    >with a 5 megapixel camera, will inserting the photo
                    >within the email message area automatically reduce the
                    >memory size to a proportional size so it doesn't
                    >overwhelm the message, OR do I need to greatly
                    >downsize photos that I insert (paste) into the
                    >message?

                    Hi Mike,

                    They won't make it through. Rather than downsize, just log onto
                    <<http://www.flickr.com>http://www.flickr.com> and upload it. Then
                    post a link to it. The photo is already downsized to four different
                    sizes. Most people would probably like Medium.

                    Thumbnail (100 x 82)
                    Small (240 x 197)
                    Medium (500 x 411)
                    Large (1024 x 841)

                    It is free, fast and easy. No fuss and no muss and user friendly.

                    It is there if a new group member wants to go back and look at it
                    later or one of us accidently erases our email. It is a win-win
                    situation. Posting temporary photographs doesn't make sense.

                    --
                    Cheers, Steve Henning, Valley Forge Chapter, ARS; PA, USA Zone 6

                    http://rhodyman.net/rasite.html

                    http://rhodyman.net/VFARSHistory.html


                    When you reply to an email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s) only, as
                    context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo lines.
                    And PLEASE tell us your city, state and/or USDA zone.

                    We welcome attached images RESIZED to be under 100KB in size - 640 x 480
                    pixel JPEG images at 50% or 1:40 compression are ideal. By attaching them
                    you agree that, without giving up your rights to them, they may be shown on
                    Azalea Society websites.

                    To unsubscribe, send an email to: azaleas-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                  • Mike Creel
                    John: I greatly enjoy taking digital photos around my yard, woods and garden pond. Close-ups and macro zooms are the most intriguing. In macro setting my
                    Message 9 of 28 , Aug 15, 2007
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                      John:
                      I greatly enjoy taking digital photos around my yard,
                      woods and garden pond. Close-ups and macro zooms are
                      the most intriguing. In macro setting my Canon S2
                      will focus sharply from 3.9 inches out to around 10
                      feet. The supermacro setting will focus from 0 to 3.9
                      inches, but for best results that requires a tripod.

                      Reducing photos for email transpot is quite time
                      consuming the way I do it in PhotoShop, so mostly I
                      have just let Windows and Outlook Express
                      automatically downsize them after I select the photo
                      files and select Send to Email. But that does not
                      reduce the files enough from the original large size I
                      shoot them at.

                      What is the process in Irfanview for reducing photo
                      size? Isn't that a free program. Can you reduce
                      several files together, rather than one at a time?

                      I have tried Picasa but don't like it because it seems
                      to take over, doing more than I want it to.

                      Mike Creel, SC

                      --- Sally/John Perkins <sjperk5@...> wrote:
                      > Mike
                      >
                      > Picasa can reduce photos. I use Irfanview. Sally
                      > uses Outlook to reduce
                      > photos when she is emailing them.
                      >
                      > Having created web sites, web albums, and added
                      > images to blogs I can say
                      > that attaching images to emails is by far the
                      > easiest way to send images.
                      > The other ways may not be hard but it involves more
                      > steps. Even if you
                      > already have them in a tool like Picasa, creating a
                      > web album and creating a
                      > link to the album in the email is much more involved
                      > than merely emailing
                      > them especially if the email program supports image
                      > reduction which many do.
                      >
                      > In general, making it harder for someone to email an
                      > image is a choice.
                      > Telling the sender to work harder so the receiver
                      > can be in their comfort
                      > zone is in my opinion expecting a lot.
                      >
                      > John Perkins
                      > Salem, NH
                    • sjperk5
                      Irfanview is free. You can download it at http://www.irfanview.net/ You can batch the resizing of images. It is fast. It does minor editing tasks with relative
                      Message 10 of 28 , Aug 16, 2007
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                        Irfanview is free. You can download it at

                        http://www.irfanview.net/

                        You can batch the resizing of images. It is fast. It does minor
                        editing tasks with relative ease but is not well suited for the kind
                        of major editing supported by photoshop.

                        In my opinion it is the best, most useful free piece of software
                        outside of your browser. If you are going to have only one image
                        editing tool this is the one I would recommend for Windows users.

                        Picasa is good for organizing images primarily because of the
                        virtual folders. It is also good at quick fix and collages. Ok for
                        captioning images. Passable for slide shows. Great for web albums.
                        Passable for searching. All imaging organizing tools fall short and
                        are frustrating to use but this free one is useful.

                        Irfanview is great for viewing, resizing, renaming, creating slide
                        shows, and adding IPTC information to your images. There are many
                        tools like this one but I find this one to be the best free one but
                        then I have been using it for many years and know pretty much what
                        it can do well, what it can do but with much effort, and what it
                        cannot do. Other than email and the browser there is most likely no
                        free software program I have used more times for more reasons.

                        Jpeg Cropper (I never get this name completely correct) is great for
                        cropping images. This free tool does one thing and it does it very
                        well. In fact other than performance which is acceptable I really do
                        not know how it could be improved unless you are really picky about
                        placement of menus and such.

                        If you cannot do it to an image with these three tools you are most
                        likely kidding yourself or the image needs some major editing.

                        Movie making now that is a whole other bag.

                        Question: Are you sure you cannot make the email program make the
                        images even smaller in file size by varying the compression ratio on
                        the reduction. Jpeg image reduction involves reducing resolution and
                        reducing quality. Merely reducing the dimension of a jpeg does not
                        reduce the file size much unless you reduce the quality factor to
                        below 100. I usually use 80.

                        John Perkins
                        Salem, NH




                        --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, Mike Creel <mikeacreel@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > John:
                        > I greatly enjoy taking digital photos around my yard,
                        > woods and garden pond. Close-ups and macro zooms are
                        > the most intriguing. In macro setting my Canon S2
                        > will focus sharply from 3.9 inches out to around 10
                        > feet. The supermacro setting will focus from 0 to 3.9
                        > inches, but for best results that requires a tripod.
                        >
                        > Reducing photos for email transpot is quite time
                        > consuming the way I do it in PhotoShop, so mostly I
                        > have just let Windows and Outlook Express
                        > automatically downsize them after I select the photo
                        > files and select Send to Email. But that does not
                        > reduce the files enough from the original large size I
                        > shoot them at.
                        >
                        > What is the process in Irfanview for reducing photo
                        > size? Isn't that a free program. Can you reduce
                        > several files together, rather than one at a time?
                        >
                        > I have tried Picasa but don't like it because it seems
                        > to take over, doing more than I want it to.
                        >
                        > Mike Creel, SC
                        >
                        > --- Sally/John Perkins <sjperk5@...> wrote:
                        > > Mike
                        > >
                        > > Picasa can reduce photos. I use Irfanview. Sally
                        > > uses Outlook to reduce
                        > > photos when she is emailing them.
                        > >
                        > > Having created web sites, web albums, and added
                        > > images to blogs I can say
                        > > that attaching images to emails is by far the
                        > > easiest way to send images.
                        > > The other ways may not be hard but it involves more
                        > > steps. Even if you
                        > > already have them in a tool like Picasa, creating a
                        > > web album and creating a
                        > > link to the album in the email is much more involved
                        > > than merely emailing
                        > > them especially if the email program supports image
                        > > reduction which many do.
                        > >
                        > > In general, making it harder for someone to email an
                        > > image is a choice.
                        > > Telling the sender to work harder so the receiver
                        > > can be in their comfort
                        > > zone is in my opinion expecting a lot.
                        > >
                        > > John Perkins
                        > > Salem, NH
                        >
                      • sjperk5
                        Just so my position is clear. I think it is the duty of the sender to send reasonable sized images when sending images. I think it is the duty of the receiver
                        Message 11 of 28 , Aug 16, 2007
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                          Just so my position is clear. I think it is the duty of the sender
                          to send reasonable sized images when sending images. I think it is
                          the duty of the receiver to decide whether they what to receive
                          images as attachments and whether they want to receive non plain
                          text based emails.

                          I prefer text based emails where images and documents are included
                          as attachments but respect the freedom of others to send nonmalicous
                          emails in whatever format they consider most desireable for their
                          purposes. In this instance, freedom of association is a 2 way street
                          where the cost of the association and the rules of engagement are
                          dictated by neither party but instead accepted by both when
                          benefitual to both.

                          If the monitor of this forum wishes to exclude the attachment or
                          insertion of images, then I would respect such a decreed but until
                          then I think both the producers and consumers should handle images
                          as they deem fit.

                          John Perkins
                          Salem, NH

                          --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, "Sally/John Perkins" <sjperk5@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Mike
                          >
                          > Picasa can reduce photos. I use Irfanview. Sally uses Outlook to
                          reduce
                          > photos when she is emailing them.
                          >
                          > Having created web sites, web albums, and added images to blogs I
                          can say
                          > that attaching images to emails is by far the easiest way to send
                          images.
                          > The other ways may not be hard but it involves more steps. Even if
                          you
                          > already have them in a tool like Picasa, creating a web album and
                          creating a
                          > link to the album in the email is much more involved than merely
                          emailing
                          > them especially if the email program supports image reduction
                          which many do.
                          >
                          > In general, making it harder for someone to email an image is a
                          choice.
                          > Telling the sender to work harder so the receiver can be in their
                          comfort
                          > zone is in my opinion expecting a lot.
                          >
                          > John Perkins
                          > Salem, NH
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: azaleas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:azaleas@yahoogroups.com] On
                          Behalf Of
                          > S. M. Henning
                          > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 12:26 PM
                          > To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [AZ] Re: How to view photos?
                          >
                          > Mike Creel, SC wrote:
                          >
                          > >Since I take all my digital photos at peak resolution
                          > >with a 5 megapixel camera, will inserting the photo
                          > >within the email message area automatically reduce the
                          > >memory size to a proportional size so it doesn't
                          > >overwhelm the message, OR do I need to greatly
                          > >downsize photos that I insert (paste) into the
                          > >message?
                          >
                          > Hi Mike,
                          >
                          > They won't make it through. Rather than downsize, just log onto
                          > <<http://www.flickr.com>http://www.flickr.com> and upload it.
                          Then
                          > post a link to it. The photo is already downsized to four
                          different
                          > sizes. Most people would probably like Medium.
                          >
                          > Thumbnail (100 x 82)
                          > Small (240 x 197)
                          > Medium (500 x 411)
                          > Large (1024 x 841)
                          >
                          > It is free, fast and easy. No fuss and no muss and user friendly.
                          >
                          > It is there if a new group member wants to go back and look at it
                          > later or one of us accidently erases our email. It is a win-win
                          > situation. Posting temporary photographs doesn't make sense.
                          >
                          > --
                          > Cheers, Steve Henning, Valley Forge Chapter, ARS; PA, USA Zone
                          6
                          >
                          > http://rhodyman.net/rasite.html
                          >
                          > http://rhodyman.net/VFARSHistory.html
                          >
                          >
                          > When you reply to an email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s)
                          only, as
                          > context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo
                          lines.
                          > And PLEASE tell us your city, state and/or USDA zone.
                          >
                          > We welcome attached images RESIZED to be under 100KB in size - 640
                          x 480
                          > pixel JPEG images at 50% or 1:40 compression are ideal. By
                          attaching them
                          > you agree that, without giving up your rights to them, they may be
                          shown on
                          > Azalea Society websites.
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe, send an email to: azaleas-
                          unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                        • sjperk5
                          Mike To be more specific you will find batch conversion under the file menu in Irfanview. Click this and a new menu will appear in a separate window. OPTION
                          Message 12 of 28 , Aug 16, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Mike

                            To be more specific you will find batch conversion under the file
                            menu in Irfanview. Click this and a new menu will appear in a
                            separate window. OPTION and Advanced OPTION buttons allow you to
                            choose format and image size respectively. In this batch window you
                            can select the images you want to batch convert and add them to the
                            list on the left. Hit start to do the conversion.

                            There are many options available in the batch window and you can do
                            renaming, resizing, and add text to images while using the IPTC
                            imformation as a basis for your action but simple batch resizing
                            requires very little beyond what is outlined in paragraph 1.

                            Irfanview like most software has its quirks but the power available
                            in the batch window is well worth the price of admission.

                            The slide show window is also powerful and very very useful if you
                            make digital presentations. Thumbnails window is also powerful but
                            in general I do not use it much.

                            Also a good tool for adding IPTC information.

                            Note: The only real big short coming of Irfanview is the authors
                            love affair with plain text. I would prefer it to be more XML based
                            but the author has made a real effort to produce a powerful tool
                            while keeping it as simple as possible. This tool inputs and exports
                            information well within the kind of information it uses which is a
                            big big plus.

                            The author simply is not into supporting XML and XSLT but then other
                            than me none of his millions of users seem to care.

                            Note: If you download Irfanview also download all the plugins. You
                            will never use most of them but they are often needed went you start
                            doing more advanced tasks.

                            John Perkins
                            Salem, NH





                            --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, "sjperk5" <sjperk5@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Irfanview is free. You can download it at
                            >
                            > http://www.irfanview.net/
                            >
                            > You can batch the resizing of images. It is fast. It does minor
                            > editing tasks with relative ease but is not well suited for the
                            kind
                            > of major editing supported by photoshop.
                            >
                            > In my opinion it is the best, most useful free piece of software
                            > outside of your browser. If you are going to have only one image
                            > editing tool this is the one I would recommend for Windows users.
                            >
                            > Picasa is good for organizing images primarily because of the
                            > virtual folders. It is also good at quick fix and collages. Ok for
                            > captioning images. Passable for slide shows. Great for web albums.
                            > Passable for searching. All imaging organizing tools fall short
                            and
                            > are frustrating to use but this free one is useful.
                            >
                            > Irfanview is great for viewing, resizing, renaming, creating slide
                            > shows, and adding IPTC information to your images. There are many
                            > tools like this one but I find this one to be the best free one
                            but
                            > then I have been using it for many years and know pretty much what
                            > it can do well, what it can do but with much effort, and what it
                            > cannot do. Other than email and the browser there is most likely
                            no
                            > free software program I have used more times for more reasons.
                            >
                            > Jpeg Cropper (I never get this name completely correct) is great
                            for
                            > cropping images. This free tool does one thing and it does it very
                            > well. In fact other than performance which is acceptable I really
                            do
                            > not know how it could be improved unless you are really picky
                            about
                            > placement of menus and such.
                            >
                            > If you cannot do it to an image with these three tools you are
                            most
                            > likely kidding yourself or the image needs some major editing.
                            >
                            > Movie making now that is a whole other bag.
                            >
                            > Question: Are you sure you cannot make the email program make the
                            > images even smaller in file size by varying the compression ratio
                            on
                            > the reduction. Jpeg image reduction involves reducing resolution
                            and
                            > reducing quality. Merely reducing the dimension of a jpeg does not
                            > reduce the file size much unless you reduce the quality factor to
                            > below 100. I usually use 80.
                            >
                            > John Perkins
                            > Salem, NH
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, Mike Creel <mikeacreel@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > John:
                            > > I greatly enjoy taking digital photos around my yard,
                            > > woods and garden pond. Close-ups and macro zooms are
                            > > the most intriguing. In macro setting my Canon S2
                            > > will focus sharply from 3.9 inches out to around 10
                            > > feet. The supermacro setting will focus from 0 to 3.9
                            > > inches, but for best results that requires a tripod.
                            > >
                            > > Reducing photos for email transpot is quite time
                            > > consuming the way I do it in PhotoShop, so mostly I
                            > > have just let Windows and Outlook Express
                            > > automatically downsize them after I select the photo
                            > > files and select Send to Email. But that does not
                            > > reduce the files enough from the original large size I
                            > > shoot them at.
                            > >
                            > > What is the process in Irfanview for reducing photo
                            > > size? Isn't that a free program. Can you reduce
                            > > several files together, rather than one at a time?
                            > >
                            > > I have tried Picasa but don't like it because it seems
                            > > to take over, doing more than I want it to.
                            > >
                            > > Mike Creel, SC
                            > >
                            > > --- Sally/John Perkins <sjperk5@> wrote:
                            > > > Mike
                            > > >
                            > > > Picasa can reduce photos. I use Irfanview. Sally
                            > > > uses Outlook to reduce
                            > > > photos when she is emailing them.
                            > > >
                            > > > Having created web sites, web albums, and added
                            > > > images to blogs I can say
                            > > > that attaching images to emails is by far the
                            > > > easiest way to send images.
                            > > > The other ways may not be hard but it involves more
                            > > > steps. Even if you
                            > > > already have them in a tool like Picasa, creating a
                            > > > web album and creating a
                            > > > link to the album in the email is much more involved
                            > > > than merely emailing
                            > > > them especially if the email program supports image
                            > > > reduction which many do.
                            > > >
                            > > > In general, making it harder for someone to email an
                            > > > image is a choice.
                            > > > Telling the sender to work harder so the receiver
                            > > > can be in their comfort
                            > > > zone is in my opinion expecting a lot.
                            > > >
                            > > > John Perkins
                            > > > Salem, NH
                            > >
                            >
                          • S. M. Henning
                            ... Hi John, I hope you didn t think I was telling anyone to do anything. I was trying to state the pros and cons as you were doing. I think you are grossly
                            Message 13 of 28 , Aug 16, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              John Wrote:

                              >In general, making it harder for someone to email an image is a choice.
                              >Telling the sender to work harder so the receiver can be in their comfort
                              >zone is in my opinion expecting a lot.

                              Hi John,

                              I hope you didn't think I was telling anyone to do anything. I was
                              trying to state the pros and cons as you were doing. I think you are
                              grossly exaggerating the difficulty. Here is how hard it is for me
                              to use flickr.com.

                              1) I go to: <http://flickr.com/photos/shenning>
                              2) SIGN IN using my Azalea Group/Yahoo password (The first time click
                              on SIGN UP first)
                              3) Click UPLOAD PHOTOS
                              4) BROWSE to select photo(s) to upload (up to 5 MB each) & click UPLOAD
                              5) Right Click on Image (COPY LINK to CLIPBOARD)

                              That is all there is to it. Then, I just go to my Azalea Group email
                              and past the link. It will look like this:

                              <http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1215/1137846286_fa7dd284e0.jpg?v=0>
                              (Rcv. Lapwing, Knaphill deciduous azalea)

                              If I want a larger image, just double click on the small image and
                              copy the link for the larger image that appears.

                              No Resizing, No Photoshop, Picasa or Irfanview, No Albums, No
                              Navigating, and only one click to view the photo. It is very
                              intuitive. The big advantages:

                              1) the photo is automatically resized
                              2) the photo is archived and available to everyone in the future
                              3) the viewer can select to download a (1024 x 841) resolution
                              version suitable for electronic projection in PowerPoint or
                              electronic slide shows.
                              4) people aren't forced to download photos they aren't interested in.

                              These are 4 advantages I don't get if I put photos in an email..

                              One can almost do the same thing on the Azalea Group Photos site by
                              using <http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/azaleas/photos/> rather
                              than the flickr.com address. You must select an album here.

                              The link looks like:

                              <http://f9g.yahoofs.com/groups/g_11205563/78f0/__sr_/4167.jpg?grAPJxGBsd7odnNg>
                              (Rcv. Lapwing, Knaphill deciduous azalea)

                              The Azalea Group photo site on Yahoo does not have the ability to
                              download a (1024 x 841) resolution version that flickr.com has.
                              Both the Azalea Group Photos site and flickr.com are Yahoo products.

                              One thing I like about posting links is that I am not forcing people
                              to download my photos before they know what they are. To me it is
                              presumptuous to post photos in email, thinking people are interested.
                              I want people to have the option of knowing what the image is before
                              they download it.

                              I think this is a lot easier than using Picasa and I don't have to
                              store a bunch of low res photos in my email or anywhere else on my
                              computer.

                              Also with flickr.com, I can use the albums feature to share family
                              photos or trip photos with friends and family. The slide shows it
                              has for albums are tremendous. It is a good tool to have available
                              and simple to use. Besides being easy to use, it is entirely free.

                              I hope others find flickr.com as useful as I do.

                              --
                              Cheers, Steve Henning;

                              Secretary, Kutztown, PA Rotary Club, USA
                              Vice President, Valley Forge Chapter, American Rhododendron Society
                              Membership Chair, MacPower Macintosh Users Group
                              Member at Large, Hawk Mountain Council, Boy Scouts of America

                              Webmaster for the following:
                              http://kutztownrotary.org - Rotary Club site
                              http://scouters.us - Boy Scout site
                              http://rhodyman.net - Personal site
                              http://rhodyman.net/rasite.html - Rhododendron & Azalea site
                              http://macpower.us - Macintosh User Group site
                            • Sally/John Perkins
                              Steve I agree that it is not hard but it is clearly harder. If you have just taken an image with your digital camera, you have to upload it. Most people do
                              Message 14 of 28 , Aug 16, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Steve

                                I agree that it is not hard but it is clearly harder.

                                If you have just taken an image with your digital camera, you have to upload
                                it. Most people do this to their hard drive on their own computer.

                                To attach it to an email all I have to do is locate on the hard drive,
                                attach it to the email which I have set to auto reduce attached images.

                                When I know I have a image on a web site I add a link to the site, when I
                                know I have an image in a web album I link to the web album, and when I have
                                an image only on my hard drive I attach it to the email. Most people have
                                most if not all their images on their personal computers.

                                Your approach makes sense but is more work than I want to go to when I am
                                merely intending to show an image to the yahoo rhodie or azalea group.

                                John Perkins
                                Salem, Nh

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: azaleas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:azaleas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                S. M. Henning
                                Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 2:15 PM
                                To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [AZ] Re: How to view photos?

                                John Wrote:

                                >In general, making it harder for someone to email an image is a choice.
                                >Telling the sender to work harder so the receiver can be in their comfort
                                >zone is in my opinion expecting a lot.

                                Hi John,

                                I hope you didn't think I was telling anyone to do anything. I was
                                trying to state the pros and cons as you were doing. I think you are
                                grossly exaggerating the difficulty. Here is how hard it is for me
                                to use flickr.com.

                                1) I go to: <http://flickr.com/photos/shenning>
                                2) SIGN IN using my Azalea Group/Yahoo password (The first time click
                                on SIGN UP first)
                                3) Click UPLOAD PHOTOS
                                4) BROWSE to select photo(s) to upload (up to 5 MB each) & click UPLOAD
                                5) Right Click on Image (COPY LINK to CLIPBOARD)

                                That is all there is to it. Then, I just go to my Azalea Group email
                                and past the link. It will look like this:

                                <http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1215/1137846286_fa7dd284e0.jpg?v=0>
                                (Rcv. Lapwing, Knaphill deciduous azalea)

                                If I want a larger image, just double click on the small image and
                                copy the link for the larger image that appears.

                                No Resizing, No Photoshop, Picasa or Irfanview, No Albums, No
                                Navigating, and only one click to view the photo. It is very
                                intuitive. The big advantages:

                                1) the photo is automatically resized
                                2) the photo is archived and available to everyone in the future
                                3) the viewer can select to download a (1024 x 841) resolution
                                version suitable for electronic projection in PowerPoint or
                                electronic slide shows.
                                4) people aren't forced to download photos they aren't interested in.

                                These are 4 advantages I don't get if I put photos in an email..

                                One can almost do the same thing on the Azalea Group Photos site by
                                using <http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/azaleas/photos/> rather
                                than the flickr.com address. You must select an album here.

                                The link looks like:

                                <http://f9g.yahoofs.com/groups/g_11205563/78f0/__sr_/4167.jpg?grAPJxGBsd7odn
                                Ng>
                                (Rcv. Lapwing, Knaphill deciduous azalea)

                                The Azalea Group photo site on Yahoo does not have the ability to
                                download a (1024 x 841) resolution version that flickr.com has.
                                Both the Azalea Group Photos site and flickr.com are Yahoo products.

                                One thing I like about posting links is that I am not forcing people
                                to download my photos before they know what they are. To me it is
                                presumptuous to post photos in email, thinking people are interested.
                                I want people to have the option of knowing what the image is before
                                they download it.

                                I think this is a lot easier than using Picasa and I don't have to
                                store a bunch of low res photos in my email or anywhere else on my
                                computer.

                                Also with flickr.com, I can use the albums feature to share family
                                photos or trip photos with friends and family. The slide shows it
                                has for albums are tremendous. It is a good tool to have available
                                and simple to use. Besides being easy to use, it is entirely free.

                                I hope others find flickr.com as useful as I do.

                                --
                                Cheers, Steve Henning;

                                Secretary, Kutztown, PA Rotary Club, USA
                                Vice President, Valley Forge Chapter, American Rhododendron Society
                                Membership Chair, MacPower Macintosh Users Group
                                Member at Large, Hawk Mountain Council, Boy Scouts of America

                                Webmaster for the following:
                                http://kutztownrotary.org - Rotary Club site
                                http://scouters.us - Boy Scout site
                                http://rhodyman.net - Personal site
                                http://rhodyman.net/rasite.html - Rhododendron & Azalea site
                                http://macpower.us - Macintosh User Group site


                                When you reply to an email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s) only, as
                                context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo lines.
                                And PLEASE tell us your city, state and/or USDA zone.

                                We welcome attached images RESIZED to be under 100KB in size - 640 x 480
                                pixel JPEG images at 50% or 1:40 compression are ideal. By attaching them
                                you agree that, without giving up your rights to them, they may be shown on
                                Azalea Society websites.

                                To unsubscribe, send an email to: azaleas-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                              • Mike Creel
                                I sure wish there were a way to adjust the auto down-sizing of photo attachments in Outlook Express. I cannot find it if there is. I will have to wait until I
                                Message 15 of 28 , Aug 16, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I sure wish there were a way to adjust the auto
                                  down-sizing of photo attachments in Outlook Express.
                                  I cannot find it if there is. I will have to wait
                                  until I switch over to a different email program.
                                  Mike Creel, SC

                                  --- Sally/John Perkins <sjperk5@...> wrote:

                                  > Steve
                                  >
                                  > I agree that it is not hard but it is clearly
                                  > harder.
                                  >
                                  > If you have just taken an image with your digital
                                  > camera, you have to upload
                                  > it. Most people do this to their hard drive on their
                                  > own computer.
                                  >
                                  > To attach it to an email all I have to do is locate
                                  > on the hard drive,
                                  > attach it to the email which I have set to auto
                                  > reduce attached images.
                                  >
                                  > When I know I have a image on a web site I add a
                                  > link to the site, when I
                                  > know I have an image in a web album I link to the
                                  > web album, and when I have
                                  > an image only on my hard drive I attach it to the
                                  > email. Most people have
                                  > most if not all their images on their personal
                                  > computers.
                                  >
                                  > Your approach makes sense but is more work than I
                                  > want to go to when I am
                                  > merely intending to show an image to the yahoo
                                  > rhodie or azalea group.
                                  >
                                  > John Perkins
                                  > Salem, Nh
                                • Bob Stelloh
                                  At 5:55 PM -0400 on 8/15/07, Sally/John Perkins wrote ... This is an interesting philosophical question. I would more-or-less agree if it was a
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Aug 16, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    At 5:55 PM -0400 on 8/15/07, Sally/John Perkins wrote
                                    <snip>

                                    >In general, making it harder for someone to email an image is a choice.
                                    >Telling the sender to work harder so the receiver can be in their comfort
                                    >zone is in my opinion expecting a lot.
                                    >
                                    >John Perkins
                                    >Salem, NH

                                    This is an interesting philosophical question. I would more-or-less
                                    agree if it was a one-to-one message.

                                    But . . . since
                                    - communication is an act of the recipient (ie, the sender has only
                                    communicated if the receiver understands what was sent), and
                                    - we have around 250 potential recipients, then
                                    - I would assert it is worth some extra effort by a sender to improve
                                    their probability of communicating with those 250 recipients.

                                    Would I advocate spending 250 times more effort? No! Would I advocate
                                    spending 2 or 3 times more effort to improve my chances of
                                    communicating with 250 readers? Sure! Is it a question for each
                                    sender to ask/answer for themselves? I think so.

                                    And for another interesting philosophical question,
                                    At 2:15 PM -0400 8/16/07, S. M. Henning wrote:

                                    <snip>
                                    >One thing I like about posting links is that I am not forcing people
                                    >to download my photos before they know what they are. To me it is
                                    >presumptuous to post photos in email, thinking people are interested.
                                    >I want people to have the option of knowing what the image is before
                                    >they download it.
                                    <snip>

                                    I can recall feeling pretty irritated several years ago when I got a
                                    3 or 4MB image of someone's garden, unasked. I remember it took
                                    forever to download because I had dialup at the time, and of course
                                    it was way too big to see more than a tiny bit at a time, and at the
                                    time I didn't know how to change that, so it was a totally unpleasant
                                    experience.

                                    Now, with a cable modem and a little more knowledge, and with most
                                    folks now downsizing their emailed images to some degree, it doesn't
                                    bother me to get images attached to an email. But I certainly
                                    understand both sides of the question.

                                    When we had complete control of our mail list, the sender attached
                                    the image, the server stripped it off, stored it in our archives and
                                    replaced it with a link. We did that primarily to reduce the load on
                                    the server by not having to send out hundreds of copies of the image
                                    at once. That was a lot more clever than Yahoo doing just the
                                    opposite, and it (perhaps inadvertently) satisfied the concerns
                                    quoted above.

                                    At least this attached images question is amenable to an informal vote:
                                    - would you like to outlaw attached images on our azaleas mail list, or
                                    - would you like to keep on having attached images as we currently do, or
                                    - do you not care?

                                    Regards,
                                    Bob Stelloh Hendersonville NC USDA Zone 7
                                  • Sally/John Perkins
                                    Bob I agree if you are the speaker to a passive audience but in this case the receivers are all active parties or at least they can chose to be. Downsizing
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Aug 16, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Bob

                                      I agree if you are the speaker to a passive audience but in this case the
                                      receivers are all active parties or at least they can chose to be.

                                      Downsizing allows the receiver not to be inconvenienced by slow download.

                                      I see the forum as a group discussion rather than a series of short
                                      presentations by a series of speakers.

                                      In short the more I have to prepare the less likely I am to contribute.
                                      (Granted many might consider this an advantage) In fact I see less prepared
                                      by more people better than better prepared by far fewer.

                                      In short if I as a receiver decide not to listen by turning off images this
                                      is not the fault of the preparer. No more than it is the preparer fault if I
                                      decide not to read the email at all or follow the link.

                                      Moreover, if you are preparing for a passive audience one should attempt to
                                      inform and entertain a large percentage of the audience but in this forum I
                                      see nothing wrong with adding an item than one knows is going to be of
                                      interest to only a small percentage of the audience, In this case, the
                                      subject should clearly identify the content.

                                      John Perkins
                                      Salem, NH



                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: azaleas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:azaleas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                      Bob Stelloh
                                      Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 8:02 PM
                                      To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: RE: [AZ] Re: How to view photos?

                                      At 5:55 PM -0400 on 8/15/07, Sally/John Perkins wrote
                                      <snip>

                                      >In general, making it harder for someone to email an image is a choice.
                                      >Telling the sender to work harder so the receiver can be in their comfort
                                      >zone is in my opinion expecting a lot.
                                      >
                                      >John Perkins
                                      >Salem, NH

                                      This is an interesting philosophical question. I would more-or-less
                                      agree if it was a one-to-one message.

                                      But . . . since
                                      - communication is an act of the recipient (ie, the sender has only
                                      communicated if the receiver understands what was sent), and
                                      - we have around 250 potential recipients, then
                                      - I would assert it is worth some extra effort by a sender to improve
                                      their probability of communicating with those 250 recipients.

                                      Would I advocate spending 250 times more effort? No! Would I advocate
                                      spending 2 or 3 times more effort to improve my chances of
                                      communicating with 250 readers? Sure! Is it a question for each
                                      sender to ask/answer for themselves? I think so.

                                      And for another interesting philosophical question,
                                      At 2:15 PM -0400 8/16/07, S. M. Henning wrote:

                                      <snip>
                                      >One thing I like about posting links is that I am not forcing people
                                      >to download my photos before they know what they are. To me it is
                                      >presumptuous to post photos in email, thinking people are interested.
                                      >I want people to have the option of knowing what the image is before
                                      >they download it.
                                      <snip>

                                      I can recall feeling pretty irritated several years ago when I got a
                                      3 or 4MB image of someone's garden, unasked. I remember it took
                                      forever to download because I had dialup at the time, and of course
                                      it was way too big to see more than a tiny bit at a time, and at the
                                      time I didn't know how to change that, so it was a totally unpleasant
                                      experience.

                                      Now, with a cable modem and a little more knowledge, and with most
                                      folks now downsizing their emailed images to some degree, it doesn't
                                      bother me to get images attached to an email. But I certainly
                                      understand both sides of the question.

                                      When we had complete control of our mail list, the sender attached
                                      the image, the server stripped it off, stored it in our archives and
                                      replaced it with a link. We did that primarily to reduce the load on
                                      the server by not having to send out hundreds of copies of the image
                                      at once. That was a lot more clever than Yahoo doing just the
                                      opposite, and it (perhaps inadvertently) satisfied the concerns
                                      quoted above.

                                      At least this attached images question is amenable to an informal vote:
                                      - would you like to outlaw attached images on our azaleas mail list, or
                                      - would you like to keep on having attached images as we currently do, or
                                      - do you not care?

                                      Regards,
                                      Bob Stelloh Hendersonville NC USDA Zone 7


                                      When you reply to an email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s) only, as
                                      context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo lines.
                                      And PLEASE tell us your city, state and/or USDA zone.

                                      We welcome attached images RESIZED to be under 100KB in size - 640 x 480
                                      pixel JPEG images at 50% or 1:40 compression are ideal. By attaching them
                                      you agree that, without giving up your rights to them, they may be shown on
                                      Azalea Society websites.

                                      To unsubscribe, send an email to: azaleas-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


                                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    • Chris Klapwijk
                                      would like to keep on having attached images as we currently do Chris Klapwijk Surrey BC ... From: Bob Stelloh To:
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Aug 16, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        would like to keep on having attached images as we currently do

                                        Chris Klapwijk
                                        Surrey BC


                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "Bob Stelloh" <bstelloh@...>
                                        To: <azaleas@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 5:01 PM
                                        Subject: RE: [AZ] Re: How to view photos?


                                        At 5:55 PM -0400 on 8/15/07, Sally/John Perkins wrote
                                        <snip>
                                        ....an informal vote:
                                        - would you like to outlaw attached images on our azaleas mail list, or
                                        - would you like to keep on having attached images as we currently do, or
                                        - do you not care?

                                        Bob Stelloh
                                      • Vivian Abney
                                        I vote to keep attachments in our messages, downsized to speed things up for us with dial-up. I do not want to have to follow a link to see a picture. Just
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Aug 16, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I vote to keep attachments in our messages, downsized to speed things up for us with dial-up.  I do not want to have to follow a link to see a picture.  Just don't have time for that. 
                                           
                                          Vivian Abney
                                           
                                           
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 8:01 PM
                                          Subject: RE: [AZ] Re: How to view photos?

                                          At 5:55 PM -0400 on 8/15/07, Sally/John Perkins wrote
                                          <snip>

                                          >In general, making it harder for someone to email an image is a choice.
                                          >Telling the sender to work harder so the receiver can be in their comfort
                                          >zone is in my opinion expecting a lot.
                                          >
                                          >John Perkins
                                          >Salem, NH

                                          This is an interesting philosophical question. I would more-or-less
                                          agree if it was a one-to-one message.

                                          But . . . since
                                          - communication is an act of the recipient (ie, the sender has only
                                          communicated if the receiver understands what was sent), and
                                          - we have around 250 potential recipients, then
                                          - I would assert it is worth some extra effort by a sender to improve
                                          their probability of communicating with those 250 recipients.

                                          Would I advocate spending 250 times more effort? No! Would I advocate
                                          spending 2 or 3 times more effort to improve my chances of
                                          communicating with 250 readers? Sure! Is it a question for each
                                          sender to ask/answer for themselves? I think so.

                                          And for another interesting philosophical question,
                                          At 2:15 PM -0400 8/16/07, S. M. Henning wrote:

                                          <snip>
                                          >One thing I like about posting links is that I am not forcing people
                                          >to download my photos before they know what they are. To me it is
                                          >presumptuous to post photos in email, thinking people are interested.
                                          >I want people to have the option of knowing what the image is before
                                          >they download it.
                                          <snip>

                                          I can recall feeling pretty irritated several years ago when I got a
                                          3 or 4MB image of someone's garden, unasked. I remember it took
                                          forever to download because I had dialup at the time, and of course
                                          it was way too big to see more than a tiny bit at a time, and at the
                                          time I didn't know how to change that, so it was a totally unpleasant
                                          experience.

                                          Now, with a cable modem and a little more knowledge, and with most
                                          folks now downsizing their emailed images to some degree, it doesn't
                                          bother me to get images attached to an email. But I certainly
                                          understand both sides of the question.

                                          When we had complete control of our mail list, the sender attached
                                          the image, the server stripped it off, stored it in our archives and
                                          replaced it with a link. We did that primarily to reduce the load on
                                          the server by not having to send out hundreds of copies of the image
                                          at once. That was a lot more clever than Yahoo doing just the
                                          opposite, and it (perhaps inadvertently) satisfied the concerns
                                          quoted above.

                                          At least this attached images question is amenable to an informal vote:
                                          - would you like to outlaw attached images on our azaleas mail list, or
                                          - would you like to keep on having attached images as we currently do, or
                                          - do you not care?

                                          Regards,
                                          Bob Stelloh Hendersonville NC USDA Zone 7

                                        • Jean Pace
                                          We agree with Vivian. I am on dial up and it will be that way for several years to come. Leon and Jean Pace ... From: Vivian Abney To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Aug 16, 2007
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            We agree with Vivian. I am on dial up and it will be that way for several years to come.
                                            Leon and Jean Pace
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:35 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [AZ] Re: How to view photos?

                                            I vote to keep attachments in our messages, downsized to speed things up for us with dial-up.  I do not want to have to follow a link to see a picture.  Just don't have time for that. 
                                             
                                            Vivian Abney
                                             
                                             
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 8:01 PM
                                            Subject: RE: [AZ] Re: How to view photos?

                                            At 5:55 PM -0400 on 8/15/07, Sally/John Perkins wrote
                                            <snip>

                                            >In general, making it harder for someone to email an image is a choice.
                                            >Telling the sender to work harder so the receiver can be in their comfort
                                            >zone is in my opinion expecting a lot.
                                            >
                                            >John Perkins
                                            >Salem, NH

                                            This is an interesting philosophical question. I would more-or-less
                                            agree if it was a one-to-one message.

                                            But . . . since
                                            - communication is an act of the recipient (ie, the sender has only
                                            communicated if the receiver understands what was sent), and
                                            - we have around 250 potential recipients, then
                                            - I would assert it is worth some extra effort by a sender to improve
                                            their probability of communicating with those 250 recipients.

                                            Would I advocate spending 250 times more effort? No! Would I advocate
                                            spending 2 or 3 times more effort to improve my chances of
                                            communicating with 250 readers? Sure! Is it a question for each
                                            sender to ask/answer for themselves? I think so.

                                            And for another interesting philosophical question,
                                            At 2:15 PM -0400 8/16/07, S. M. Henning wrote:

                                            <snip>
                                            >One thing I like about posting links is that I am not forcing people
                                            >to download my photos before they know what they are. To me it is
                                            >presumptuous to post photos in email, thinking people are interested.
                                            >I want people to have the option of knowing what the image is before
                                            >they download it.
                                            <snip>

                                            I can recall feeling pretty irritated several years ago when I got a
                                            3 or 4MB image of someone's garden, unasked. I remember it took
                                            forever to download because I had dialup at the time, and of course
                                            it was way too big to see more than a tiny bit at a time, and at the
                                            time I didn't know how to change that, so it was a totally unpleasant
                                            experience.

                                            snip

                                          • sjperk5
                                            Although I knew that many people prefer attached images over embedded and many prefer embedded to attached, it had not occurred to me that some might actually
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Aug 17, 2007
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Although I knew that many people prefer attached images over
                                              embedded and many prefer embedded to attached, it had not occurred
                                              to me that some might actually prefer attached to linked.

                                              Yet this makes sense. Although clicking is involved in each, going
                                              to a link feels like a wondering away whereas going to an
                                              attachments feels more like a going home.

                                              I know I personally avoid web sites that have a fixed size magazine
                                              look. I like web sites that fill my screen when I am viewing them at
                                              high resolution such as 1600 by 1200. In general I want as much on
                                              the screen as reasonable at one time where of course I get to define
                                              reasonable. In other words you cannot please everyone.

                                              In short despite having been involved in presenting information in a
                                              web like environment since the early 70's

                                              [Note: You might well want to skip this part and skip to the closing
                                              comma.

                                              Back then we called it Plato which I think meant something like
                                              programmed learning and teaching online. My 2 year college project
                                              was to write 17 online teaching programs (1 each for kindergarden
                                              through college senior) in support of Mathematics education. My
                                              first program helped young children learn how to count. I remember
                                              getting much grief from formal educators because my program started
                                              children off learning to start counting from 0 rather than 1 which
                                              by the way I still believe is the right thing to do. I quickly
                                              learned the only thing young children cared about was the choice,
                                              color, and moment of the visual objects. My 17th program illustrated
                                              the math behind knots. One program meant for students being
                                              reintroduced to operators in Algebra and univerally panned by both
                                              educators and users illustrated how addition of numbers was the same
                                              as string concatenation and multiplication of numbers was really
                                              nothing more than a finite series of string copies (Yes I even
                                              covered substraction and division in relationship to string
                                              operations and I am pretty certain I am the only person in the world
                                              that learned anything from that program. Note: If you carefully
                                              examine almost any elementary school math book they hint at this
                                              without really saying anything formally where it is illustrated in
                                              some set of diagrams showing something like *** plus **** is
                                              *******. For whatever reason we do not like to discuss formally the
                                              importance of base 1 in the foundation and understanding of basic
                                              arithmetic. We emphasize how to do arithmetic rather than what it
                                              is.). By the way for those who like useless pieces of information
                                              the programming langauge we used to write education software for
                                              PLATO was called Tutor. Note: This was a college project and nothing
                                              more.]
                                              ,

                                              I am still amazed how much little things about the format effect the
                                              use of the information by others.

                                              I vote to allow attached images as well as embedded and linked.

                                              John Perkins
                                              Salem, NH





                                              --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, "Vivian Abney" <efnur@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > I vote to keep attachments in our messages, downsized to speed
                                              things up for us with dial-up. I do not want to have to follow a
                                              link to see a picture. Just don't have time for that.
                                              >
                                              > Vivian Abney
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > From: Bob Stelloh
                                              > To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 8:01 PM
                                              > Subject: RE: [AZ] Re: How to view photos?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > At 5:55 PM -0400 on 8/15/07, Sally/John Perkins wrote
                                              > <snip>
                                              >
                                              > >In general, making it harder for someone to email an image is a
                                              choice.
                                              > >Telling the sender to work harder so the receiver can be in
                                              their comfort
                                              > >zone is in my opinion expecting a lot.
                                              > >
                                              > >John Perkins
                                              > >Salem, NH
                                              >
                                              > This is an interesting philosophical question. I would more-or-
                                              less
                                              > agree if it was a one-to-one message.
                                              >
                                              > But . . . since
                                              > - communication is an act of the recipient (ie, the sender has
                                              only
                                              > communicated if the receiver understands what was sent), and
                                              > - we have around 250 potential recipients, then
                                              > - I would assert it is worth some extra effort by a sender to
                                              improve
                                              > their probability of communicating with those 250 recipients.
                                              >
                                              > Would I advocate spending 250 times more effort? No! Would I
                                              advocate
                                              > spending 2 or 3 times more effort to improve my chances of
                                              > communicating with 250 readers? Sure! Is it a question for each
                                              > sender to ask/answer for themselves? I think so.
                                              >
                                              > And for another interesting philosophical question,
                                              > At 2:15 PM -0400 8/16/07, S. M. Henning wrote:
                                              >
                                              > <snip>
                                              > >One thing I like about posting links is that I am not forcing
                                              people
                                              > >to download my photos before they know what they are. To me it
                                              is
                                              > >presumptuous to post photos in email, thinking people are
                                              interested.
                                              > >I want people to have the option of knowing what the image is
                                              before
                                              > >they download it.
                                              > <snip>
                                              >
                                              > I can recall feeling pretty irritated several years ago when I
                                              got a
                                              > 3 or 4MB image of someone's garden, unasked. I remember it took
                                              > forever to download because I had dialup at the time, and of
                                              course
                                              > it was way too big to see more than a tiny bit at a time, and at
                                              the
                                              > time I didn't know how to change that, so it was a totally
                                              unpleasant
                                              > experience.
                                              >
                                              > Now, with a cable modem and a little more knowledge, and with
                                              most
                                              > folks now downsizing their emailed images to some degree, it
                                              doesn't
                                              > bother me to get images attached to an email. But I certainly
                                              > understand both sides of the question.
                                              >
                                              > When we had complete control of our mail list, the sender
                                              attached
                                              > the image, the server stripped it off, stored it in our archives
                                              and
                                              > replaced it with a link. We did that primarily to reduce the
                                              load on
                                              > the server by not having to send out hundreds of copies of the
                                              image
                                              > at once. That was a lot more clever than Yahoo doing just the
                                              > opposite, and it (perhaps inadvertently) satisfied the concerns
                                              > quoted above.
                                              >
                                              > At least this attached images question is amenable to an
                                              informal vote:
                                              > - would you like to outlaw attached images on our azaleas mail
                                              list, or
                                              > - would you like to keep on having attached images as we
                                              currently do, or
                                              > - do you not care?
                                              >
                                              > Regards,
                                              > Bob Stelloh Hendersonville NC USDA Zone 7
                                              >
                                            • Sally/John Perkins
                                              Bob As I see it there are at least the three possible tradeoffs. 1) Some producers of information prefer simple text and attached images because it is the
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Aug 18, 2007
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Bob

                                                As I see it there are at least the three possible tradeoffs.

                                                1) Some producers of information prefer simple text and attached images
                                                because it is the simplest in terms of steps and technology. A different
                                                method may result in them supplying less or no images.

                                                2) Some phone consumers prefer simple text and attached images because it
                                                allows them to connect download emails and disconnect. Links force a
                                                reconnect. Big images cause slow download.

                                                3) Digest consumers prefer batched reads and then can only see the images if
                                                the images are linked. Attached images are not able to be seen.

                                                4) Some consumers with fast connections would prefer large resolution images
                                                and often prefer links so they do not have the store the images at all.

                                                This is a classic case of chose your poison.

                                                John Perkins
                                                Salem, NH

                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: azaleas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:azaleas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                                sjperk5
                                                Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 8:19 AM
                                                To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: [AZ] Re: How to view photos? - Mostly Way Off Topic

                                                Although I knew that many people prefer attached images over
                                                embedded and many prefer embedded to attached, it had not occurred
                                                to me that some might actually prefer attached to linked.

                                                Yet this makes sense. Although clicking is involved in each, going
                                                to a link feels like a wondering away whereas going to an
                                                attachments feels more like a going home.

                                                I know I personally avoid web sites that have a fixed size magazine
                                                look. I like web sites that fill my screen when I am viewing them at
                                                high resolution such as 1600 by 1200. In general I want as much on
                                                the screen as reasonable at one time where of course I get to define
                                                reasonable. In other words you cannot please everyone.

                                                In short despite having been involved in presenting information in a
                                                web like environment since the early 70's

                                                [Note: You might well want to skip this part and skip to the closing
                                                comma.

                                                Back then we called it Plato which I think meant something like
                                                programmed learning and teaching online. My 2 year college project
                                                was to write 17 online teaching programs (1 each for kindergarden
                                                through college senior) in support of Mathematics education. My
                                                first program helped young children learn how to count. I remember
                                                getting much grief from formal educators because my program started
                                                children off learning to start counting from 0 rather than 1 which
                                                by the way I still believe is the right thing to do. I quickly
                                                learned the only thing young children cared about was the choice,
                                                color, and moment of the visual objects. My 17th program illustrated
                                                the math behind knots. One program meant for students being
                                                reintroduced to operators in Algebra and univerally panned by both
                                                educators and users illustrated how addition of numbers was the same
                                                as string concatenation and multiplication of numbers was really
                                                nothing more than a finite series of string copies (Yes I even
                                                covered substraction and division in relationship to string
                                                operations and I am pretty certain I am the only person in the world
                                                that learned anything from that program. Note: If you carefully
                                                examine almost any elementary school math book they hint at this
                                                without really saying anything formally where it is illustrated in
                                                some set of diagrams showing something like *** plus **** is
                                                *******. For whatever reason we do not like to discuss formally the
                                                importance of base 1 in the foundation and understanding of basic
                                                arithmetic. We emphasize how to do arithmetic rather than what it
                                                is.). By the way for those who like useless pieces of information
                                                the programming langauge we used to write education software for
                                                PLATO was called Tutor. Note: This was a college project and nothing
                                                more.]
                                                ,

                                                I am still amazed how much little things about the format effect the
                                                use of the information by others.

                                                I vote to allow attached images as well as embedded and linked.

                                                John Perkins
                                                Salem, NH





                                                --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, "Vivian Abney" <efnur@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > I vote to keep attachments in our messages, downsized to speed
                                                things up for us with dial-up. I do not want to have to follow a
                                                link to see a picture. Just don't have time for that.
                                                >
                                                > Vivian Abney
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > From: Bob Stelloh
                                                > To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 8:01 PM
                                                > Subject: RE: [AZ] Re: How to view photos?
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > At 5:55 PM -0400 on 8/15/07, Sally/John Perkins wrote
                                                > <snip>
                                                >
                                                > >In general, making it harder for someone to email an image is a
                                                choice.
                                                > >Telling the sender to work harder so the receiver can be in
                                                their comfort
                                                > >zone is in my opinion expecting a lot.
                                                > >
                                                > >John Perkins
                                                > >Salem, NH
                                                >
                                                > This is an interesting philosophical question. I would more-or-
                                                less
                                                > agree if it was a one-to-one message.
                                                >
                                                > But . . . since
                                                > - communication is an act of the recipient (ie, the sender has
                                                only
                                                > communicated if the receiver understands what was sent), and
                                                > - we have around 250 potential recipients, then
                                                > - I would assert it is worth some extra effort by a sender to
                                                improve
                                                > their probability of communicating with those 250 recipients.
                                                >
                                                > Would I advocate spending 250 times more effort? No! Would I
                                                advocate
                                                > spending 2 or 3 times more effort to improve my chances of
                                                > communicating with 250 readers? Sure! Is it a question for each
                                                > sender to ask/answer for themselves? I think so.
                                                >
                                                > And for another interesting philosophical question,
                                                > At 2:15 PM -0400 8/16/07, S. M. Henning wrote:
                                                >
                                                > <snip>
                                                > >One thing I like about posting links is that I am not forcing
                                                people
                                                > >to download my photos before they know what they are. To me it
                                                is
                                                > >presumptuous to post photos in email, thinking people are
                                                interested.
                                                > >I want people to have the option of knowing what the image is
                                                before
                                                > >they download it.
                                                > <snip>
                                                >
                                                > I can recall feeling pretty irritated several years ago when I
                                                got a
                                                > 3 or 4MB image of someone's garden, unasked. I remember it took
                                                > forever to download because I had dialup at the time, and of
                                                course
                                                > it was way too big to see more than a tiny bit at a time, and at
                                                the
                                                > time I didn't know how to change that, so it was a totally
                                                unpleasant
                                                > experience.
                                                >
                                                > Now, with a cable modem and a little more knowledge, and with
                                                most
                                                > folks now downsizing their emailed images to some degree, it
                                                doesn't
                                                > bother me to get images attached to an email. But I certainly
                                                > understand both sides of the question.
                                                >
                                                > When we had complete control of our mail list, the sender
                                                attached
                                                > the image, the server stripped it off, stored it in our archives
                                                and
                                                > replaced it with a link. We did that primarily to reduce the
                                                load on
                                                > the server by not having to send out hundreds of copies of the
                                                image
                                                > at once. That was a lot more clever than Yahoo doing just the
                                                > opposite, and it (perhaps inadvertently) satisfied the concerns
                                                > quoted above.
                                                >
                                                > At least this attached images question is amenable to an
                                                informal vote:
                                                > - would you like to outlaw attached images on our azaleas mail
                                                list, or
                                                > - would you like to keep on having attached images as we
                                                currently do, or
                                                > - do you not care?
                                                >
                                                > Regards,
                                                > Bob Stelloh Hendersonville NC USDA Zone 7
                                                >




                                                When you reply to an email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s) only, as
                                                context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo lines.
                                                And PLEASE tell us your city, state and/or USDA zone.

                                                We welcome attached images RESIZED to be under 100KB in size - 640 x 480
                                                pixel JPEG images at 50% or 1:40 compression are ideal. By attaching them
                                                you agree that, without giving up your rights to them, they may be shown on
                                                Azalea Society websites.

                                                To unsubscribe, send an email to: azaleas-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


                                                Yahoo! Groups Links
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