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Re: [AZ] azalea culture regions

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  • Don Hyatt
    Bob and others, To me, the first thing we need to do is generate a list of our favorite azaleas. I think that should almost be done chapter by chapter. Some
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 1, 2003
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      Bob and others,
      To me, the first thing we need to do is generate a list of our favorite
      azaleas. I think that should almost be done chapter by chapter. Some
      work can be done by email but also we need to personally contact people
      with large collections who may not be online. We really need their
      input and only local people will know who those growers are. We may
      need to get some chapter volunteers to actually go out and meet with
      local growers since sometimes people do no not reply to mail surveys
      either. About 20 years ago, Frank White conducted an ASA survey to
      identify the top 20 Glenn Dales and I know there was a real effort to
      seek people who had large collections to get their nominations for the
      "eye catchers" and good doers. I think we should do the same with this
      survey but make it more comprehensive this time.

      I agree that we should not try to limit to a specific number of
      favorites but I would suggest that we ask people to not nominate more
      that 10% of the azalea varieties they have grown in their own gardens.
      We have people in Northern Virginia such as Phil and Frances Louer and
      Jane Newman who have huge collections, many thousands of varieties.
      Their top 10% lists will really be valuable for identifying new things
      that many of us have not tried as well as older varieties we may have
      forgotten. Jane Newman does not have email but I would be happy to
      contact her and get her preferences. Incidentally, Jane recently
      provided me slides she has been taking of the Glenn Dales over the past
      decade or so in an effort to help identify the various clones. They are
      wonderful photos and although not all 454 varieties are represented, it
      doesn't seem like most of them are there. So far I have scanned in
      about 350 hi-resolution images and I am not yet halfway done. She has
      really done a monumental service for our society and this will be a
      tremendous resource for us all when it is finished.

      Back to your questions...

      I don't see a need to sort "most favorite" to "least favorite" as long
      as people are giving us just their top 10% lists. We could ask for
      their "super favorites", say the top 10% of the things on their list
      which would be indicating the top one percent of the plants they grow.
      That would be very interesting to see.

      As for location, I think zip code is a great idea. That can be
      converted to almost any other format but we probably already have
      addresses of our local people anyway. The zip code will be essential to
      phase 2 when we see how widely things are grown.

      We should probably record hybrid group on these varieties since we will
      eventually want to subdivide along those lines.

      We do need a time limit but I am not sure what that should be. Maybe we
      should try to complete the first phase by February or March so we give
      ASA Chapters to conduct local surveys, possibly as part of a regular
      meeting. Once we generate the list of "goodies", we will then want to
      conduct a secondary survey to see how widely certain varieties are grown.

      Those are my thoughts so far.

      Don Hyatt

      Bob Stelloh wrote:

      > At 8:43 AM -0500 on 11/30/03, Don Hyatt wrote
      > >I think it would probably help Ken Cox if we in the ASA polled our
      > >members to first identify our favorite plants and best doers rather than
      > >just representative cultivars. We could organize our initial survey
      > >both by geographical region and by hybrid group. Then we can do a more
      > >formal assessment to see how widespread some of these favorite varieties
      > >are in their adaptability.
      >
      > Ah! Wisdom prevails! I think that's a great idea.
      >
      > Can you suggest how it might work? Like, just ask folks to name their
      > favorites and best doers (and where they live) and go from that list?
      > If so, I can send an email to all our members as well as it appearing
      > on the azaleas mail list (the list only has about 100 members; about
      > 550 or so of our members have email addresses).
      >
      > Questions:
      > -how many plants to ask each member to identify? 1? 10? 25? No limit?
      > [I mildly favor "no limit", counting on laziness to serve as a
      > natural limiter.]
      > -if more than 1, ask them to sort by "most favorite . . . least
      > favorite"? [It probably doesn't matter, as the total number of times
      > a name appears on the lists from the different folks will create the
      > "most favorite" anyway.]
      > -how to identify location? [Zip code sounds pretty good - we could
      > easily turn that into almost any other political/geographic
      > subdivision if needed.]
      > -any other info to ask for? [My earlier idea of 1,2,3 for condition
      > isn't needed if we are asking for "best doers", which seems like a
      > much better idea.]
      > -should we have a time limit to reply?
      >
      > Or, better yet, just draft me an email to send to all the ASA members.
      >
      > Regards,
      > Bob Stelloh Hendersonville North Carolina USDA Zone 7
      >
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    • Barry Sperling
      I think that the goal of getting range maps, which currently don t exist ( ? ), can be overwhelmed with the long sequence of steps listed, starting with the
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 1, 2003
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        I think that the goal of getting range maps, which currently don't exist
        ( ? ), can be overwhelmed with the long sequence of steps listed,
        starting with the attempt to replicate the "good doer" list which has
        appeared in Galle, the ARS journal ( covering azaleas, too), and
        probably the Azalean. By the time that we poll everybody by email, get
        feedback from clubs, contact people with large collections, get
        volunteers to meet with local growers, get all of the date collected and
        integrated then ... we have another good-doer list. Nice to have, but a
        lot of work that will not tell us much we don't know and haven't seen
        before. Now, if Jane was to write an article about "My Favorite Glenn
        Dales", that would be an enjoyable read ( with accompanying pics! ).
        But...what don't we have at all? Range maps. They would be
        biologically interesting and a guide to people considering their next
        purchase. What we need first is a feasability study: can we make ONE
        range map? The prior suggestion to use hinodigiri is fine and the prior
        suggestion ( Bob's? ) to use a 1-2-3 ( good-fair-poor ) rating scale
        along with it is good, too. If this works, then we can expand it to
        more plants, more people doing the compilations, etc.
        This list seems smaller than the old list, so not many people may
        contribute. Perhaps it needs a request for data in the Azalean. What
        do you think?
        Barry


        Don Hyatt wrote:

        >Bob and others,
        >To me, the first thing we need to do is generate a list of our favorite
        >azaleas. I think that should almost be done chapter by chapter. Some
        >work can be done by email but also we need to personally contact people
        >with large collections who may not be online. We really need their
        >input and only local people will know who those growers are. We may
        >need to get some chapter volunteers to actually go out and meet with
        >local growers since sometimes people do no not reply to mail surveys
        >either. About 20 years ago, Frank White conducted an ASA survey to
        >identify the top 20 Glenn Dales and I know there was a real effort to
        >seek people who had large collections to get their nominations for the
        >"eye catchers" and good doers. I think we should do the same with this
        >survey but make it more comprehensive this time.
        >
        >I agree that we should not try to limit to a specific number of
        >favorites but I would suggest that we ask people to not nominate more
        >that 10% of the azalea varieties they have grown in their own gardens.
        >We have people in Northern Virginia such as Phil and Frances Louer and
        >Jane Newman who have huge collections, many thousands of varieties.
        >Their top 10% lists will really be valuable for identifying new things
        >that many of us have not tried as well as older varieties we may have
        >forgotten. Jane Newman does not have email but I would be happy to
        >contact her and get her preferences. Incidentally, Jane recently
        >provided me slides she has been taking of the Glenn Dales over the past
        >decade or so in an effort to help identify the various clones. They are
        >wonderful photos and although not all 454 varieties are represented, it
        >doesn't seem like most of them are there. So far I have scanned in
        >about 350 hi-resolution images and I am not yet halfway done. She has
        >really done a monumental service for our society and this will be a
        >tremendous resource for us all when it is finished.
        >
        >Back to your questions...
        >
        >I don't see a need to sort "most favorite" to "least favorite" as long
        >as people are giving us just their top 10% lists. We could ask for
        >their "super favorites", say the top 10% of the things on their list
        >which would be indicating the top one percent of the plants they grow.
        >That would be very interesting to see.
        >
        >As for location, I think zip code is a great idea. That can be
        >converted to almost any other format but we probably already have
        >addresses of our local people anyway. The zip code will be essential to
        >phase 2 when we see how widely things are grown.
        >
        >We should probably record hybrid group on these varieties since we will
        >eventually want to subdivide along those lines.
        >
        >We do need a time limit but I am not sure what that should be. Maybe we
        >should try to complete the first phase by February or March so we give
        >ASA Chapters to conduct local surveys, possibly as part of a regular
        >meeting. Once we generate the list of "goodies", we will then want to
        >conduct a secondary survey to see how widely certain varieties are grown.
        >
        >Those are my thoughts so far.
        >
        >Don Hyatt
        >
        >Bob Stelloh wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >>At 8:43 AM -0500 on 11/30/03, Don Hyatt wrote
        >>
        >>
        >>>I think it would probably help Ken Cox if we in the ASA polled our
        >>>members to first identify our favorite plants and best doers rather than
        >>>just representative cultivars. We could organize our initial survey
        >>>both by geographical region and by hybrid group. Then we can do a more
        >>>formal assessment to see how widespread some of these favorite varieties
        >>>are in their adaptability.
        >>>
        >>>
        >>Ah! Wisdom prevails! I think that's a great idea.
        >>
        >>Can you suggest how it might work? Like, just ask folks to name their
        >>favorites and best doers (and where they live) and go from that list?
        >>If so, I can send an email to all our members as well as it appearing
        >>on the azaleas mail list (the list only has about 100 members; about
        >>550 or so of our members have email addresses).
        >>
        >>Questions:
        >>-how many plants to ask each member to identify? 1? 10? 25? No limit?
        >>[I mildly favor "no limit", counting on laziness to serve as a
        >>natural limiter.]
        >>-if more than 1, ask them to sort by "most favorite . . . least
        >>favorite"? [It probably doesn't matter, as the total number of times
        >>a name appears on the lists from the different folks will create the
        >>"most favorite" anyway.]
        >>-how to identify location? [Zip code sounds pretty good - we could
        >>easily turn that into almost any other political/geographic
        >>subdivision if needed.]
        >>-any other info to ask for? [My earlier idea of 1,2,3 for condition
        >>isn't needed if we are asking for "best doers", which seems like a
        >>much better idea.]
        >>-should we have a time limit to reply?
        >>
        >>Or, better yet, just draft me an email to send to all the ASA members.
        >>
        >>Regards,
        >>Bob Stelloh Hendersonville North Carolina USDA Zone 7
        >>
        >>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        >>ADVERTISEMENT
        >><http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12crjedvj/M=267637.4116730.5333196.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1707632670:HM/EXP=1070343854/A=1853618/R=0/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60178338&partid=4116730>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>When you reply to this email, please quote its relevant part(s) only,
        >>as context, and delete the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo
        >>lines.
        >>
        >>To unsubscribe, send an email to: azaleas-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
        >><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >When you reply to this email, please quote its relevant part(s) only, as context, and delete the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo lines.
        >
        >To unsubscribe, send an email to: azaleas-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Don Hyatt
        I guess there are two goals here: one to establish range maps for familiar azalea cultivars and another to provide Ken Cox with some guidanceon azaleas when he
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 2, 2003
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          I guess there are two goals here: one to establish range maps for
          familiar azalea cultivars and another to provide Ken Cox with some
          guidanceon azaleas when he writes his upcoming book. Both are valid
          areas of investigation and worthy projects for the ASA.

          Most of the "good doer" lists I have seen (Galle, etc.) were done 20
          years ago. None of the newer varieties are even mentioned. From my
          perspective, I would like to know from others which are the best
          Greenwoods, Holly Hills, Schroeders, new Kurumes, Aromis, Sommervilles,
          Beasley hybrids, etc., for our area. I don't have room to grow them all.

          From previous email I have seen, it appears that Ken Cox wants to
          produce a book similar to "Greer's Guidebook to Available Rhododendrons"
          that will include evergreen and deciduous azaleas in addition to the
          newer rhododendrons such as the Delp hybrids. He cannot grow them all
          and in fact, many of the evergreen and deciduous azalea cultivars do not
          grow well in Scotland because their climate is too cool. I think our
          ASA members are in the best position to give him some recommendations
          for the better selections by region.

          Don Hyatt
          McLean, VA
          Don@...


          Barry Sperling wrote:

          > I think that the goal of getting range maps, which currently don't exist
          > ( ? ), can be overwhelmed with the long sequence of steps listed,
          > starting with the attempt to replicate the "good doer" list which has
          > appeared in Galle, the ARS journal ( covering azaleas, too), and
          > probably the Azalean. By the time that we poll everybody by email, get
          > feedback from clubs, contact people with large collections, get
          > volunteers to meet with local growers, get all of the date collected and
          > integrated then ... we have another good-doer list. Nice to have, but a
          > lot of work that will not tell us much we don't know and haven't seen
          > before. Now, if Jane was to write an article about "My Favorite Glenn
          > Dales", that would be an enjoyable read ( with accompanying pics! ).
          > But...what don't we have at all? Range maps. They would be
          > biologically interesting and a guide to people considering their next
          > purchase. What we need first is a feasability study: can we make ONE
          > range map? The prior suggestion to use hinodigiri is fine and the prior
          > suggestion ( Bob's? ) to use a 1-2-3 ( good-fair-poor ) rating scale
          > along with it is good, too. If this works, then we can expand it to
          > more plants, more people doing the compilations, etc.
          > This list seems smaller than the old list, so not many people may
          > contribute. Perhaps it needs a request for data in the Azalean. What
          > do you think?
          > Barry
          >
          >
          >
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