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Re: [AZ] Otakumii?

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  • kawikasc
    Bob, How d you do that. I couldn t figure out how to attach a photo to this group message board. Are you folks hiding the attach file button from me as some
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 7, 2005
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      Bob,
      How'd you do that. I couldn't figure out how to attach a photo to
      this group message board. Are you folks hiding the attach file button
      from me as some sort of joke for the new member? Do I do my postings
      and replies through the mail center or the message board? Mike
      responded to my previous question about attaching a photo. Didn't
      understand it at all...zoom over my head. Ratio this, compress that,
      pixel my what? Will it require a special lubricant?
      David Groff
      Columbia, SC zone 8


      --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, Bob Stelloh <bstelloh@M...> wrote:
      > At 3:24 PM +0000 on 8/6/05, kawikasc wrote
      > >I recently added an image to the photo section.
      >
      > Although that works, consider just attaching your image to your
      > email, as I have done here. That lets the reader see your picture
      > without having to go to our email website. In either case I will
      > probably eventually snag it, and put it on our picture website and
      > link it to our index of azalea names.
      >
      > >I ran across this
      > >unusual azalea last year and am hoping someone will confirm its
      > >identity. I believe it to be Rhododendron Otakumii Yamazaki. The
      > >specifics match Galles' description(page 134). The leaves are
      quite
      > >small 3/16-1/4 inch wide, serrated, length up to 1 inch. The
      flowers
      > >resemble Polypetalum but are a pale orange. I was unable to locate
      any
      > >web sources for comparision.
      >
      > This spring I got an R. otakumii with impeccable provenance. It was
      a
      > gift from Mal Clark, a past-president of the ASA. He got it as a
      gift
      > from Polly Hill about 35 years ago, and it was a gift to her from
      Dr.
      > Tsuneshige Rokujo of Japan, who worked with her on her North
      Tisbury
      > hybrids. Mal thought it was one of the very few, and possibly the
      > oldest, such plants in the US.
      >
      > The plant, which lived in a pot all its life, is strongly upright,
      > about 5' x 3', with very few flowers this spring. I recently
      planted
      > it out, and we will see what it does in the landscape.
      >
      > The attached closeups of the flower and foliage appear similar to
      > your picture, and also appear to match the Galle description.
      >
      > As shown in Galle on p 134, "Yamazaki" is the name of the person
      who
      > originally gave R. otakumii its name -- the "author" of the name R.
      > otakumii. By convention, the name of the author follows the name of
      > the plant in formal descriptions, and is usually ignored in
      informal
      > usage.
      >
      > Regards,
      > Bob Stelloh Hendersonville NC USDA Zone 7
    • kawikasc
      Bob, Thanks for the confirmation and for educating me on the wording used in Galle s book. My Otakumii are also upright growers, the tallest being a sheared 4
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 7, 2005
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        Bob,

        Thanks for the confirmation and for educating me on the wording used
        in Galle's book. My Otakumii are also upright growers, the tallest
        being a sheared 4 footer. I'll have to ask the owner of the nursery
        if she is familiar with any of the names in your reply.
        David Groff
        Columbia, SC zone 8


        > At 3:24 PM +0000 on 8/6/05, kawikasc wrote
        > >I recently added an image to the photo section.
        >
        > Although that works, consider just attaching your image to your
        > email, as I have done here. That lets the reader see your picture
        > without having to go to our email website. In either case I will
        > probably eventually snag it, and put it on our picture website and
        > link it to our index of azalea names.
        >
        > >I ran across this
        > >unusual azalea last year and am hoping someone will confirm its
        > >identity. I believe it to be Rhododendron Otakumii Yamazaki. The
        > >specifics match Galles' description(page 134). The leaves are
        quite
        > >small 3/16-1/4 inch wide, serrated, length up to 1 inch. The
        flowers
        > >resemble Polypetalum but are a pale orange. I was unable to locate
        any
        > >web sources for comparision.
        >
        > This spring I got an R. otakumii with impeccable provenance. It was
        a
        > gift from Mal Clark, a past-president of the ASA. He got it as a
        gift
        > from Polly Hill about 35 years ago, and it was a gift to her from
        Dr.
        > Tsuneshige Rokujo of Japan, who worked with her on her North
        Tisbury
        > hybrids. Mal thought it was one of the very few, and possibly the
        > oldest, such plants in the US.
        >
        > The plant, which lived in a pot all its life, is strongly upright,
        > about 5' x 3', with very few flowers this spring. I recently
        planted
        > it out, and we will see what it does in the landscape.
        >
        > The attached closeups of the flower and foliage appear similar to
        > your picture, and also appear to match the Galle description.
        >
        > As shown in Galle on p 134, "Yamazaki" is the name of the person
        who
        > originally gave R. otakumii its name -- the "author" of the name R.
        > otakumii. By convention, the name of the author follows the name of
        > the plant in formal descriptions, and is usually ignored in
        informal
        > usage.
        >
        > Regards,
        > Bob Stelloh Hendersonville NC USDA Zone 7
      • William C. Miller III
        David, After reviewing the two images that Bob Stelloh posted, I m satisfied that what you have is not Seigai . Most noteworthy...the foliage on Seigai is
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 7, 2005
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          David,

          After reviewing the two images that Bob Stelloh posted, I'm satisfied that what you have is not 'Seigai'.  Most noteworthy...the foliage on 'Seigai' is not shiny and the 'Seigai' petals are more narrow. It is curious however that the 'Otakumi' photo on page 132 of the Satsuki dictionary has very narrow petals compared to Bob's image which shows petals that flair.

          According to Galle, we have Dr. Rokujo, by way of Polly Hill, to thank for 'Seigai' as well.

          The International Rhododendron Register and Checklist (IRRC) lists the cultivar as 'Otakumi' with only one i.   The hiragana (the Japanese writing) on page 132 of the Satsuki dictionary reads Otakumi. 

          Bob confirmed my suspicion about Yamazaki.  It turns out that there are two Yamazaki.

          Points to ponder?

          1. The binomial nomenclature is a problem.   How can it be a newly identified species if it is a "form" of R. indicum?  The previously mentioned 2004 abstract (much more current than Galle) characterizes it as a form of indicum and not a distinct species.

          2.  According to Don Voss, the Otakumi River (one i) is found on the island of Yakushima.  I did a little investigating with Google and Yakushima is about 40 minutes by air from Kagoshima.  The river did not appear as a physical feature on the map provided by the Japan National Tourist Organization.. 

          It isn't clear where the extra "i" came from.  Undoubtedly it has something to do with Yamazaki.

          Bill




          kawikasc wrote:
          Hi Bill,
               I found what little information I have on the azalea in Galle's 
          book, 2nd printing page 134.  It states that "it is a relatively 
          newly identified species from the banks of the Otakumii River.." I've 
          had a few of the small twisted/curled leaf azaleas before and this is 
          unlike any of them.  Galle describes the "spring foliage as being 
          narrow linear 1/2-1 inch long, 3/16-1/4 wide"..with summer leaves 
          generally smaller to 1/2 inch.  "Winter coloration is reddish" 
          Everything in Galle's description seems to match what I have with the 
          exception of the serrated edging to the leaves.  I've searched all of 
          my Japanese Azalea books and have found nothing similiar, they mostly 
          display Satsuki and Kurume azaleas.
             I bought the azalea from a mom and pop nursery outside of 
          Columbia, SC.  I've lived here for thirty years and only found out 
          about it last year.  It is simply known as "Azaleas For Sale" on 
          their sign.  No advertising, no name, no listing in the phone book.  
          As best I can recall the nursery started over 30 years ago with 
          plants sent to them from a family member at either the National 
          Arboretum or one in PA.  I have been fortunate in that owner/wife has 
          taken a liking to me and allowed me to buy any of her original old 
          stock plants, something not done before, due to family illness.  We 
          both were going throught the same thing, her with her husband and me 
          with my late mother.  As far as I am concerened it's the Holy Grail 
          of azalea nurseries.  Many of the names are missing, tags faded or 
          simply crumble when touched.  At one time well over 500 varieties, 
          many known only by number or hybridizer...is that a word?.  If I 
          wasn't so old and fat I'd be digging more up today...okay okay mostly 
          fat.  I nearly dropped to my knees upon finding this place in May of 
          last year with thousands of 4 foot sheared azaleas under an ocean of 
          flowers...row upon row of beauty, yup I teared up.  Viagra couldn't 
          have worked as well as my excitement was that day.  I plan to ask if 
          she is willing to share/sell her old stock with members of the 
          Society.  These azaleas need to be shared and distributed.  Her son 
          will soon be taking over the nursery and I fear many of the unique 
          varieties will be destroyed.  
             David Groff
          Columbia SC zone 8 
             
                     
          
            
          Hi "kawikasc",
          
          'Otakumi', listed as a Wada hybrid (one i and in single quotes to 
          indicate a cultivar name as listed in the IRRC), is pictured in one 
              
          of 
            
          the Satsuki books.  Based on the photo, it bears a strong 
              
          similarity to 
            
          'Seigai'.
          
          I don't recognize the name "Yamazaki" as related to the azalea and 
              
          saw 
            
          no reference to it in Galle (first edition).  Yamazaki was the site 
              
          of a 
            
          famous battle in Japan.  However, given the format...."Rhododendron 
          Otakumii Yamazaki",  the Yamazaki could be a reference to a 
              
          Japanese 
            
          botanist.
          
          As a general rule, it is desirable to include information on where 
              
          you 
            
          obtained your azalea. The original source often is the best source 
              
          for 
            
          additional information.
          
          I located an abstract where the name otakumi is used as a form 
              
          name  and 
            
          thus appears in italics.  It also mentions the term "rheophyte" 
              
          which 
            
          was new to me.....  plants that are found along streams and river 
          banks.   Take a look at the URL:
          
          wwwsoc.nii.ac.jp/jsps/APG/abstracts/APG55-1_abstracts.html
          
          Bill Miller
          Bethesda, Maryland
          
          
          
          kawikasc wrote:
          
              
          I recently added an image to the photo section. I ran across this 
          unusual azalea last year and am hoping someone will confirm its 
          identity. I believe it to be Rhododendron Otakumii Yamazaki.  The 
          specifics match Galles' description(page 134).  The leaves are 
                
          quite 
            
          small 3/16-1/4 inch wide, serrated, length up to 1 inch.  The 
                
          flowers 
            
          resemble Polypetalum but are a pale orange. I was unable to locate 
                
          any 
            
          web sources for comparision.  
          Thanks,
          kawikasc zone 8 
          
           
          
                
          
          
          
          
          When you reply to an email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s) only, as context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo lines.  And PLEASE tell us your city, state and/or USDA zone.
          
          We welcome attached images RESIZED to be under 100KB in size - 640 x 480 pixel JPEG images at 50% or 1:40 compression are ideal. By attaching them you agree that, without giving up your rights to them, they may be shown on Azalea Society websites.
          
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        • Bob Stelloh
          At 6:03 PM +0000 on 8/7/05, kawikasc wrote ... You ve posed two questions: - 1) How you attach a photo to an email depends on the email program you use. If
          Message 4 of 17 , Aug 7, 2005
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            At 6:03 PM +0000 on 8/7/05, kawikasc wrote
            >Bob,
            > How'd you do that. I couldn't figure out how to attach a photo to
            >this group message board. Are you folks hiding the attach file button
            >from me as some sort of joke for the new member? Do I do my postings
            >and replies through the mail center or the message board? Mike
            >responded to my previous question about attaching a photo. Didn't
            >understand it at all...zoom over my head. Ratio this, compress that,
            >pixel my what? Will it require a special lubricant?
            >David Groff
            >Columbia, SC zone 8

            You've posed two questions:
            - 1) How you attach a photo to an email depends on the email program
            you use. If your email program has a "help" facility that will tell
            you how. I use Eudora for the Macintosh, with an "Attach Document"
            button to click, which presents me with a file selection dialog box
            to navigate to the document to be attached, and success is shown by
            an icon and the file name at the top of the email.

            -2) In general, before attaching a picture file, you take the picture
            from your camera and scrunch it down to size, so you don't bog all
            the subcribers down by sending them huge files to download. The three
            main factors are
            - resizing it down to 640x480 pixels or so (so people with small
            monitors can see it all without having to scroll up/down/left/right)
            - resampling it to 72 pixels per inch, down from whatever your camera
            uses, which is probably at least several hundred pixels per inch
            (because monitors can't display more than 72 pixels per inch, there's
            no point in sending them more than 72 pixels per inch)
            - JPEG compressing it a lot -- see
            http://www.pbase.com/azaleasociety/compression (this saves a lot of
            file space by describing and deleting repetitive pixels, in such a
            way that the viewing software can put most of those pixels back when
            you open the file)

            How you do that depends on what image processing software you use --
            I use GraphicConverter for the Macintosh, and how it works is pretty
            well documented at http://www.azaleas.org/graphicconverter.html -- I
            read that IrfanView is similar for the PC. Expect to spend a while to
            learn the lingo and figure it all out, but after that it is fast and
            simple.

            Regards,
            Bob Stelloh Hendersonville NC USDA Zone 7

            >
            >--- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, Bob Stelloh <bstelloh@M...> wrote:
            >> At 3:24 PM +0000 on 8/6/05, kawikasc wrote
            >> >I recently added an image to the photo section.
            >>
            >> Although that works, consider just attaching your image to your
            >> email, as I have done here. That lets the reader see your picture
            >> without having to go to our email website. In either case I will
            >> probably eventually snag it, and put it on our picture website and
            > > link it to our index of azalea names.
            >>
          • Bob Stelloh
            At 3:41 PM -0400 on 8/7/05, William C. Miller III wrote ... The scope of the IRRC excludes species. It is probable that the species R. otakumii and the
            Message 5 of 17 , Aug 7, 2005
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              At 3:41 PM -0400 on 8/7/05, William C. Miller III wrote
              >David,
              >
              >After reviewing the two images that Bob Stelloh posted, I'm
              >satisfied that what you have is not 'Seigai'. Most noteworthy...the
              >foliage on 'Seigai' is not shiny and the 'Seigai' petals are more
              >narrow. It is curious however that the 'Otakumi' photo on page 132
              >of the Satsuki dictionary has very narrow petals compared to Bob's
              >image which shows petals that flair.
              >
              >According to Galle, we have Dr. Rokujo, by way of Polly Hill, to
              >thank for 'Seigai' as well.
              >
              >The International Rhododendron Register and Checklist (IRRC) lists
              >the cultivar as 'Otakumi' with only one i. The hiragana (the
              >Japanese writing) on page 132 of the Satsuki dictionary reads
              >Otakumi.

              The scope of the IRRC excludes species. It is probable that the
              species R. otakumii and the cultivar R. indicum 'Otakumi' are
              different plants, which would explain the different leaves and petal
              shapes.

              >
              >Bob confirmed my suspicion about Yamazaki. It turns out that there
              >are two Yamazaki.
              >
              >Points to ponder?
              >
              >1. The binomial nomenclature is a problem. How can it be a newly
              >identified species if it is a "form" of R. indicum? The previously
              >mentioned 2004 abstract (much more current than Galle) characterizes
              >it as a form of indicum and not a distinct species.

              See the above.

              >
              >2. According to Don Voss, the Otakumi River (one i) is found on the
              >island of Yakushima. I did a little investigating with Google and
              >Yakushima is about 40 minutes by air from Kagoshima. The river did
              >not appear as a physical feature on the map provided by the Japan
              >National Tourist Organization..
              >
              >It isn't clear where the extra "i" came from. Undoubtedly it has
              >something to do with Yamazaki.

              According to "Botanical Latin" by Stearns, p 287, the International
              Code for Botanical Nomenclature recommends that when a specific
              epithet is taken from the name of a man and that name ends in a
              vowel, the letter "i" is added. Although we're dealing here with a
              river rather than a man, applying that rule to "Otakumi" would
              explain "otakumii".

              Regards,
              Bob Stelloh Hendersonville NC USDA Zone 7

              >
              >Bill
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >kawikasc wrote:
              >
              >>Hi Bill,
              >> I found what little information I have on the azalea in Galle's
              >>book, 2nd printing page 134. It states that "it is a relatively
              >>newly identified species from the banks of the Otakumii River.." I've
              >>had a few of the small twisted/curled leaf azaleas before and this is
              >>unlike any of them. Galle describes the "spring foliage as being
              >>narrow linear 1/2-1 inch long, 3/16-1/4 wide"..with summer leaves
              >>generally smaller to 1/2 inch. "Winter coloration is reddish"
              >>Everything in Galle's description seems to match what I have with the
              >>exception of the serrated edging to the leaves. I've searched all of
              >>my Japanese Azalea books and have found nothing similiar, they mostly
              >>display Satsuki and Kurume azaleas.
              >> I bought the azalea from a mom and pop nursery outside of
              >>Columbia, SC. I've lived here for thirty years and only found out
              >>about it last year. It is simply known as "Azaleas For Sale" on
              >>their sign. No advertising, no name, no listing in the phone book.
              >>As best I can recall the nursery started over 30 years ago with
              >>plants sent to them from a family member at either the National
              >>Arboretum or one in PA. I have been fortunate in that owner/wife has
              >>taken a liking to me and allowed me to buy any of her original old
              >>stock plants, something not done before, due to family illness. We
              >>both were going throught the same thing, her with her husband and me
              >>with my late mother. As far as I am concerened it's the Holy Grail
              >>of azalea nurseries. Many of the names are missing, tags faded or
              >>simply crumble when touched. At one time well over 500 varieties,
              >>many known only by number or hybridizer...is that a word?. If I
              >>wasn't so old and fat I'd be digging more up today...okay okay mostly
              >>fat. I nearly dropped to my knees upon finding this place in May of
              >>last year with thousands of 4 foot sheared azaleas under an ocean of
              >>flowers...row upon row of beauty, yup I teared up. Viagra couldn't
              >>have worked as well as my excitement was that day. I plan to ask if
              >>she is willing to share/sell her old stock with members of the
              >>Society. These azaleas need to be shared and distributed. Her son
              >>will soon be taking over the nursery and I fear many of the unique
              >>varieties will be destroyed.
              >> David Groff
              >>Columbia SC zone 8
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>>Hi "kawikasc",
              >>>
              >>>'Otakumi', listed as a Wada hybrid (one i and in single quotes to
              >>>indicate a cultivar name as listed in the IRRC), is pictured in one
              >>>
              >>>
              >>of
              >>
              >>
              >>>the Satsuki books. Based on the photo, it bears a strong
              >>>
              >>>
              >>similarity to
              >>
              >>
              >>>'Seigai'.
              >>>
              >>>I don't recognize the name "Yamazaki" as related to the azalea and
              >>>
              >>>
              >>saw
              >>
              >>
              >>>no reference to it in Galle (first edition). Yamazaki was the site
              >>>
              >>>
              >>of a
              >>
              >>
              >>>famous battle in Japan. However, given the format...."Rhododendron
              >>>Otakumii Yamazaki", the Yamazaki could be a reference to a
              >>>
              >>>
              >>Japanese
              >>
              >>
              >>>botanist.
              >>>
              >>>As a general rule, it is desirable to include information on where
              >>>
              >>>
              >>you
              >>
              >>
              >>>obtained your azalea. The original source often is the best source
              >>>
              >>>
              >>for
              >>
              >>
              >>>additional information.
              >>>
              >>>I located an abstract where the name otakumi is used as a form
              >>>
              >>>
              >>name and
              >>
              >>
              >>>thus appears in italics. It also mentions the term "rheophyte"
              >>>
              >>>
              >>which
              >>
              >>
              >>>was new to me..... plants that are found along streams and river
              >>>banks. Take a look at the URL:
              >>>
              >>>wwwsoc.nii.ac.jp/jsps/APG/abstracts/APG55-1_abstracts.html
              >>>
              >>>Bill Miller
              >>>Bethesda, Maryland
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>kawikasc wrote:
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>>I recently added an image to the photo section. I ran across this
              >>>>unusual azalea last year and am hoping someone will confirm its
              >>>>identity. I believe it to be Rhododendron Otakumii Yamazaki. The
              >>>>specifics match Galles' description(page 134). The leaves are
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>quite
              >>
              >>
              >>>>small 3/16-1/4 inch wide, serrated, length up to 1 inch. The
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>flowers
              >>
              >>
              >>>>resemble Polypetalum but are a pale orange. I was unable to locate
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>any
              >>
              >>
              >>>>web sources for comparision.
              >>>>Thanks,
              >>>>kawikasc zone 8
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>When you reply to an email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s) only,
              >>as context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the
              >>Yahoo lines. And PLEASE tell us your city, state and/or USDA zone.
              >>
              >>We welcome attached images RESIZED to be under 100KB in size - 640
              >>x 480 pixel JPEG images at 50% or 1:40 compression are ideal. By
              >>attaching them you agree that, without giving up your rights to
              >>them, they may be shown on Azalea Society websites.
              >>
              >>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
              >><mailto:azaleas-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>azaleas-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >>
              >>
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              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              >When you reply to an email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s) only,
              >as context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo
              >lines. And PLEASE tell us your city, state and/or USDA zone.
              >
              >We welcome attached images RESIZED to be under 100KB in size - 640 x
              >480 pixel JPEG images at 50% or 1:40 compression are ideal. By
              >attaching them you agree that, without giving up your rights to
              >them, they may be shown on Azalea Society websites.
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            • Mary & Bill McDavit
              David, Could these folks be named Margie & Judd Wingard? There s is a Mom-and-Pop nursery in Lexington, SC, just out of Columbia very near a huge lake. We
              Message 6 of 17 , Aug 8, 2005
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                David,

                Could these folks be named Margie & Judd Wingard? There's is a
                Mom-and-Pop nursery in Lexington, SC, just out of Columbia very near a huge
                lake. We got our four plants from them around about 1989. They have done
                fantastically well, even though a huge pine tree fell in their midst. I'll
                attach a photo or two of what we have. My guess is that the plant is a
                cross between 'Chinzan' and 'Polypetalum', although I've got no proof of
                that.

                Warm Regards,

                Bill McDavit - Sunset Lakes, NC - Zone 8
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "kawikasc" <kawikasc@...>; "kawikasc" <kawikasc@...>
                To: <osprey1@...>
                Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 1:09 PM
                Subject: [AZ] Re: Otakumii?


                >
                > Hi Bill,
                > I found what little information I have on the azalea in Galle's
                > book, 2nd printing page 134. It states that "it is a relatively
                > newly identified species from the banks of the Otakumii River.." I've
                > had a few of the small twisted/curled leaf azaleas before and this is
                > unlike any of them. Galle describes the "spring foliage as being
                > narrow linear 1/2-1 inch long, 3/16-1/4 wide"..with summer leaves
                > generally smaller to 1/2 inch. "Winter coloration is reddish"
                > Everything in Galle's description seems to match what I have with the
                > exception of the serrated edging to the leaves. I've searched all of
                > my Japanese Azalea books and have found nothing similiar, they mostly
                > display Satsuki and Kurume azaleas.
                > I bought the azalea from a mom and pop nursery outside of
                > Columbia, SC. I've lived here for thirty years and only found out
                > about it last year. It is simply known as "Azaleas For Sale" on
                > their sign. No advertising, no name, no listing in the phone book.
                > As best I can recall the nursery started over 30 years ago with
                > plants sent to them from a family member at either the National
                > Arboretum or one in PA. I have been fortunate in that owner/wife has
                > taken a liking to me and allowed me to buy any of her original old
                > stock plants, something not done before, due to family illness. We
                > both were going throught the same thing, her with her husband and me
                > with my late mother. As far as I am concerened it's the Holy Grail
                > of azalea nurseries. Many of the names are missing, tags faded or
                > simply crumble when touched. At one time well over 500 varieties,
                > many known only by number or hybridizer...is that a word?. If I
                > wasn't so old and fat I'd be digging more up today...okay okay mostly
                > fat. I nearly dropped to my knees upon finding this place in May of
                > last year with thousands of 4 foot sheared azaleas under an ocean of
                > flowers...row upon row of beauty, yup I teared up. Viagra couldn't
                > have worked as well as my excitement was that day. I plan to ask if
                > she is willing to share/sell her old stock with members of the
                > Society. These azaleas need to be shared and distributed. Her son
                > will soon be taking over the nursery and I fear many of the unique
                > varieties will be destroyed.
                > David Groff
                > Columbia SC zone 8
                >
                >
                >
                >> Hi "kawikasc",
                >>
                >> 'Otakumi', listed as a Wada hybrid (one i and in single quotes to
                >> indicate a cultivar name as listed in the IRRC), is pictured in one
                > of
                >> the Satsuki books. Based on the photo, it bears a strong
                > similarity to
                >> 'Seigai'.
                >>
                >> I don't recognize the name "Yamazaki" as related to the azalea and
                > saw
                >> no reference to it in Galle (first edition). Yamazaki was the site
                > of a
                >> famous battle in Japan. However, given the format...."Rhododendron
                >> Otakumii Yamazaki", the Yamazaki could be a reference to a
                > Japanese
                >> botanist.
                >>
                >> As a general rule, it is desirable to include information on where
                > you
                >> obtained your azalea. The original source often is the best source
                > for
                >> additional information.
                >>
                >> I located an abstract where the name otakumi is used as a form
                > name and
                >> thus appears in italics. It also mentions the term "rheophyte"
                > which
                >> was new to me..... plants that are found along streams and river
                >> banks. Take a look at the URL:
                >>
                >> wwwsoc.nii.ac.jp/jsps/APG/abstracts/APG55-1_abstracts.html
                >>
                >> Bill Miller
                >> Bethesda, Maryland
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> kawikasc wrote:
                >>
                >> >I recently added an image to the photo section. I ran across this
                >> >unusual azalea last year and am hoping someone will confirm its
                >> >identity. I believe it to be Rhododendron Otakumii Yamazaki. The
                >> >specifics match Galles' description(page 134). The leaves are
                > quite
                >> >small 3/16-1/4 inch wide, serrated, length up to 1 inch. The
                > flowers
                >> >resemble Polypetalum but are a pale orange. I was unable to locate
                > any
                >> >web sources for comparision.
                >> >Thanks,
                >> >kawikasc zone 8
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > When you reply to an email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s) only, as
                > context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo lines.
                > And PLEASE tell us your city, state and/or USDA zone.
                >
                > We welcome attached images RESIZED to be under 100KB in size - 640 x 480
                > pixel JPEG images at 50% or 1:40 compression are ideal. By attaching them
                > you agree that, without giving up your rights to them, they may be shown
                > on Azalea Society websites.
                >
                > To unsubscribe, send an email to: azaleas-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • David Groff
                Mary and Bill, I ve bought from the Wingard s for years and that was my original source for the Noozminikari . A couple of other area nurseries also have
                Message 7 of 17 , Aug 8, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Mary and Bill,
                       I've bought from the Wingard's for years and that was my original source for the "Noozminikari".  A couple of other area nurseries also have carried it.  I was never able to find out anything about the azalea either on the web or azalea books(English or Japanese) until I found a single flip flop named photo in a recently acquired Japanese book or magazine.  I've looked through a dozen or so of the books today and haven't relocated it yet.  The only english in the books is by the picture so I have to search them page by page.  As soon as I find the info I'll post it.  I have another 40 Japanese Satsuki magazines being shipped by sea that I should receive shortly maybe they will have more examples. 
                  David Groff
                  Columbia SC zone 8     
                   
                   
                   
                   
                  Mary & Bill McDavit <osprey1@...> wrote:
                  David,

                      Could these folks be named Margie & Judd Wingard?  There's is a
                  Mom-and-Pop nursery in Lexington, SC, just out of Columbia very near a huge
                  lake.  We got our four plants from them around about 1989.  They have done
                  fantastically well, even though a huge pine tree fell in their midst.  I'll
                  attach a photo or two of what we have.  My guess is that the plant is a
                  cross between 'Chinzan' and 'Polypetalum', although I've got no proof of
                  that.

                  Warm Regards,

                  Bill McDavit - Sunset Lakes, NC - Zone 8
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "kawikasc" <kawikasc@...>; "kawikasc" <kawikasc@...>
                  To: <osprey1@...>
                  Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 1:09 PM
                  Subject: [AZ] Re: Otakumii?


                  >
                  > Hi Bill,
                  >     I found what little information I have on the azalea in Galle's
                  > book, 2nd printing page 134.  It states that "it is a relatively
                  > newly identified species from the banks of the Otakumii River.." I've
                  > had a few of the small twisted/curled leaf azaleas before and this is
                  > unlike any of them.  Galle describes the "spring foliage as being
                  > narrow linear 1/2-1 inch long, 3/16-1/4 wide"..with summer leaves
                  > generally smaller to 1/2 inch.  "Winter coloration is reddish"
                  > Everything in Galle's description seems to match what I have with the
                  > exception of the serrated edging to the leaves.  I've searched all of
                  > my Japanese Azalea books and have found nothing similiar, they mostly
                  > display Satsuki and Kurume azaleas.
                  >   I bought the azalea from a mom and pop nursery outside of
                  > Columbia, SC.  I've lived here for thirty years and only found out
                  > about it last year.  It is simply known as "Azaleas For Sale" on
                  > their sign.  No advertising, no name, no listing in the phone book.
                  > As best I can recall the nursery started over 30 years ago with
                  > plants sent to them from a family member at either the National
                  > Arboretum or one in PA.  I have been fortunate in that owner/wife has
                  > taken a liking to me and allowed me to buy any of her original old
                  > stock plants, something not done before, due to family illness.  We
                  > both were going throught the same thing, her with her husband and me
                  > with my late mother.  As far as I am concerened it's the Holy Grail
                  > of azalea nurseries.  Many of the names are missing, tags faded or
                  > simply crumble when touched.  At one time well over 500 varieties,
                  > many known only by number or hybridizer...is that a word?.  If I
                  > wasn't so old and fat I'd be digging more up today...okay okay mostly
                  > fat.  I nearly dropped to my knees upon finding this place in May of
                  > last year with thousands of 4 foot sheared azaleas under an ocean of
                  > flowers...row upon row of beauty, yup I teared up.  Viagra couldn't
                  > have worked as well as my excitement was that day.  I plan to ask if
                  > she is willing to share/sell her old stock with members of the
                  > Society.  These azaleas need to be shared and distributed.  Her son
                  > will soon be taking over the nursery and I fear many of the unique
                  > varieties will be destroyed.
                  >   David Groff
                  > Columbia SC zone 8
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >> Hi "kawikasc",
                  >>
                  >> 'Otakumi', listed as a Wada hybrid (one i and in single quotes to
                  >> indicate a cultivar name as listed in the IRRC), is pictured in one
                  > of
                  >> the Satsuki books.  Based on the photo, it bears a strong
                  > similarity to
                  >> 'Seigai'.
                  >>
                  >> I don't recognize the name "Yamazaki" as related to the azalea and
                  > saw
                  >> no reference to it in Galle (first edition).  Yamazaki was the site
                  > of a
                  >> famous battle in Japan.  However, given the format...."Rhododendron
                  >> Otakumii Yamazaki",  the Yamazaki could be a reference to a
                  > Japanese
                  >> botanist.
                  >>
                  >> As a general rule, it is desirable to include information on where
                  > you
                  >> obtained your azalea. The original source often is the best source
                  > for
                  >> additional information.
                  >>
                  >> I located an abstract where the name otakumi is used as a form
                  > name  and
                  >> thus appears in italics.  It also mentions the term "rheophyte"
                  > which
                  >> was new to me.....  plants that are found along streams and river
                  >> banks.   Take a look at the URL:
                  >>
                  >> wwwsoc.nii.ac.jp/jsps/APG/abstracts/APG55-1_abstracts.html
                  >>
                  >> Bill Miller
                  >> Bethesda, Maryland
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> kawikasc wrote:
                  >>
                  >> >I recently added an image to the photo section. I ran across this
                  >> >unusual azalea last year and am hoping someone will confirm its
                  >> >identity. I believe it to be Rhododendron Otakumii Yamazaki.  The
                  >> >specifics match Galles' description(page 134).  The leaves are
                  > quite
                  >> >small 3/16-1/4 inch wide, serrated, length up to 1 inch.  The
                  > flowers
                  >> >resemble Polypetalum but are a pale orange. I was unable to locate
                  > any
                  >> >web sources for comparision.
                  >> >Thanks,
                  >> >kawikasc zone 8
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > When you reply to an email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s) only, as
                  > context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo lines.
                  > And PLEASE tell us your city, state and/or USDA zone.
                  >
                  > We welcome attached images RESIZED to be under 100KB in size - 640 x 480
                  > pixel JPEG images at 50% or 1:40 compression are ideal. By attaching them
                  > you agree that, without giving up your rights to them, they may be shown
                  > on Azalea Society websites.
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe, send an email to: azaleas-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

                • David Groff
                  Mary and Bill, One last thing. Did you also get their Myuki satsuki....the ve had a couple of different spellings over the years? If so add an i to the
                  Message 8 of 17 , Aug 8, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Mary and Bill,
                    One last thing. Did you also get their "Myuki" satsuki....the've
                    had a couple of different spellings over the years? If so add an "i"
                    to the name for the correct spelling Miyuki. I have the named picture
                    in my hands from a Japanese magazine so I'm positive on this one. I
                    only hope I wasn't on a gin induced binge and imagined the
                    Noozminikari/Mininoozkari.
                    David Groff
                    Columbia SC zone 8
                    >
                    > Could these folks be named Margie & Judd Wingard? There's is a
                    > Mom-and-Pop nursery in Lexington, SC, just out of Columbia very
                    near a huge
                    > lake. We got our four plants from them around about 1989. They
                    have done
                    > fantastically well, even though a huge pine tree fell in their
                    midst. I'll
                    > attach a photo or two of what we have. My guess is that the plant
                    is a
                    > cross between 'Chinzan' and 'Polypetalum', although I've got no
                    proof of
                    > that.
                    >
                    > Warm Regards,
                    >
                    > Bill McDavit - Sunset Lakes, NC - Zone 8
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "kawikasc" <kawikasc@y...>; "kawikasc" <kawikasc@y...>
                    > To: <osprey1@a...>
                    > Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 1:09 PM
                    > Subject: [AZ] Re: Otakumii?
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > > Hi Bill,
                    > > I found what little information I have on the azalea in
                    Galle's
                    > > book, 2nd printing page 134. It states that "it is a relatively
                    > > newly identified species from the banks of the Otakumii River.."
                    I've
                    > > had a few of the small twisted/curled leaf azaleas before and
                    this is
                    > > unlike any of them. Galle describes the "spring foliage as being
                    > > narrow linear 1/2-1 inch long, 3/16-1/4 wide"..with summer leaves
                    > > generally smaller to 1/2 inch. "Winter coloration is reddish"
                    > > Everything in Galle's description seems to match what I have with
                    the
                    > > exception of the serrated edging to the leaves. I've searched
                    all of
                    > > my Japanese Azalea books and have found nothing similiar, they
                    mostly
                    > > display Satsuki and Kurume azaleas.
                    > > I bought the azalea from a mom and pop nursery outside of
                    > > Columbia, SC. I've lived here for thirty years and only found out
                    > > about it last year. It is simply known as "Azaleas For Sale" on
                    > > their sign. No advertising, no name, no listing in the phone
                    book.
                    > > As best I can recall the nursery started over 30 years ago with
                    > > plants sent to them from a family member at either the National
                    > > Arboretum or one in PA. I have been fortunate in that owner/wife
                    has
                    > > taken a liking to me and allowed me to buy any of her original old
                    > > stock plants, something not done before, due to family illness.
                    We
                    > > both were going throught the same thing, her with her husband and
                    me
                    > > with my late mother. As far as I am concerened it's the Holy
                    Grail
                    > > of azalea nurseries. Many of the names are missing, tags faded or
                    > > simply crumble when touched. At one time well over 500 varieties,
                    > > many known only by number or hybridizer...is that a word?. If I
                    > > wasn't so old and fat I'd be digging more up today...okay okay
                    mostly
                    > > fat. I nearly dropped to my knees upon finding this place in May
                    of
                    > > last year with thousands of 4 foot sheared azaleas under an ocean
                    of
                    > > flowers...row upon row of beauty, yup I teared up. Viagra
                    couldn't
                    > > have worked as well as my excitement was that day. I plan to ask
                    if
                    > > she is willing to share/sell her old stock with members of the
                    > > Society. These azaleas need to be shared and distributed. Her
                    son
                    > > will soon be taking over the nursery and I fear many of the unique
                    > > varieties will be destroyed.
                    > > David Groff
                    > > Columbia SC zone 8
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >> Hi "kawikasc",
                    > >>
                    > >> 'Otakumi', listed as a Wada hybrid (one i and in single quotes to
                    > >> indicate a cultivar name as listed in the IRRC), is pictured in
                    one
                    > > of
                    > >> the Satsuki books. Based on the photo, it bears a strong
                    > > similarity to
                    > >> 'Seigai'.
                    > >>
                    > >> I don't recognize the name "Yamazaki" as related to the azalea
                    and
                    > > saw
                    > >> no reference to it in Galle (first edition). Yamazaki was the
                    site
                    > > of a
                    > >> famous battle in Japan. However, given the
                    format...."Rhododendron
                    > >> Otakumii Yamazaki", the Yamazaki could be a reference to a
                    > > Japanese
                    > >> botanist.
                    > >>
                    > >> As a general rule, it is desirable to include information on
                    where
                    > > you
                    > >> obtained your azalea. The original source often is the best
                    source
                    > > for
                    > >> additional information.
                    > >>
                    > >> I located an abstract where the name otakumi is used as a form
                    > > name and
                    > >> thus appears in italics. It also mentions the term "rheophyte"
                    > > which
                    > >> was new to me..... plants that are found along streams and river
                    > >> banks. Take a look at the URL:
                    > >>
                    > >> wwwsoc.nii.ac.jp/jsps/APG/abstracts/APG55-1_abstracts.html
                    > >>
                    > >> Bill Miller
                    > >> Bethesda, Maryland
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> kawikasc wrote:
                    > >>
                    > >> >I recently added an image to the photo section. I ran across
                    this
                    > >> >unusual azalea last year and am hoping someone will confirm its
                    > >> >identity. I believe it to be Rhododendron Otakumii Yamazaki.
                    The
                    > >> >specifics match Galles' description(page 134). The leaves are
                    > > quite
                    > >> >small 3/16-1/4 inch wide, serrated, length up to 1 inch. The
                    > > flowers
                    > >> >resemble Polypetalum but are a pale orange. I was unable to
                    locate
                    > > any
                    > >> >web sources for comparision.
                    > >> >Thanks,
                    > >> >kawikasc zone 8
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > When you reply to an email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s)
                    only, as
                    > > context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo
                    lines.
                    > > And PLEASE tell us your city, state and/or USDA zone.
                    > >
                    > > We welcome attached images RESIZED to be under 100KB in size -
                    640 x 480
                    > > pixel JPEG images at 50% or 1:40 compression are ideal. By
                    attaching them
                    > > you agree that, without giving up your rights to them, they may
                    be shown
                    > > on Azalea Society websites.
                    > >
                    > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: azaleas-
                    unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                  • Mary & Bill McDavit
                    David, Early on, Margie Wingard told me that the azalea had come from a Japanese hybridizer in your area, but he had since died. She had no other news than
                    Message 9 of 17 , Aug 8, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      David,
                       
                          Early on, Margie Wingard told me that the azalea had come from a Japanese hybridizer in your area, but he had since died.  She had no other news than that, so perhaps the azalea had originated in this country by that gentleman.  Too bad we can't afford DNA testing!!  Then again, perhaps the subject gentleman brought the azalea in from Japan.
                          I'm still of the opinion that 'Chinzan' and 'Polypetalum' blood is in 'Noozminikari'.  All three bloom at the same time, and the commonality is striking.
                       
                          Good Luck,
                       
                      Bill McDavit - Sunset Lakes, NC - Zone 8
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 7:12 PM
                      Subject: Re: [AZ] Re: Otakumii?

                      Mary and Bill,
                           I've bought from the Wingard's for years and that was my original source for the "Noozminikari".  A couple of other area nurseries also have carried it.  I was never able to find out anything about the azalea either on the web or azalea books(English or Japanese) until I found a single flip flop named photo in a recently acquired Japanese book or magazine.  I've looked through a dozen or so of the books today and haven't relocated it yet.  The only english in the books is by the picture so I have to search them page by page.  As soon as I find the info I'll post it.  I have another 40 Japanese Satsuki magazines being shipped by sea that I should receive shortly maybe they will have more examples. 
                      David Groff
                      Columbia SC zone 8     
                       
                       
                       
                       
                      Mary & Bill McDavit <osprey1@...> wrote:
                      David,

                          Could these folks be named Margie & Judd Wingard?  There's is a
                      Mom-and-Pop nursery in Lexington, SC, just out of Columbia very near a huge
                      lake.  We got our four plants from them around about 1989.  They have done
                      fantastically well, even though a huge pine tree fell in their midst.  I'll
                      attach a photo or two of what we have.  My guess is that the plant is a
                      cross between 'Chinzan' and 'Polypetalum', although I've got no proof of
                      that.

                      Warm Regards,

                      Bill McDavit - Sunset Lakes, NC - Zone 8
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "kawikasc" <kawikasc@...>; "kawikasc" <kawikasc@...>
                      To: <osprey1@...>
                      Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 1:09 PM
                      Subject: [AZ] Re: Otakumii?


                      >
                      > Hi Bill,
                      >    ! I found what little information I have on the azalea in Galle's
                      > book, 2nd printing page 134.  It states that "it is a relatively
                      > newly identified species from the banks of the Otakumii River.." I've
                      > had a few of the small twisted/curled leaf azaleas before and this is
                      > unlike any of them.  Galle describes the "spring foliage as being
                      > narrow linear 1/2-1 inch long, 3/16-1/4 wide"..with summer leaves
                      > generally smaller to 1/2 inch.  "Winter coloration is reddish"
                      > Everything in Galle's description seems to match what I have with the
                      > exception of the serrated edging to the leaves.  I've searched all of
                      > my Japanese Azalea books and have found nothing similiar, they mostly
                      > display Satsuki and Kurume azaleas.
                      >   I bought the azalea from a mom and pop nursery outside of
                      > Columbia, SC.  I've lived here for thirty years and only found out
                      > about it last year.&! nbsp; It is simply known as "Azaleas For Sale" on
                      > their sign.  No advertising, no name, no listing in the phone book.
                      > As best I can recall the nursery started over 30 years ago with
                      > plants sent to them from a family member at either the National
                      > Arboretum or one in PA.  I have been fortunate in that owner/wife has
                      > taken a liking to me and allowed me to buy any of her original old
                      > stock plants, something not done before, due to family illness.  We
                      > both were going throught the same thing, her with her husband and me
                      > with my late mother.  As far as I am concerened it's the Holy Grail
                      > of azalea nurseries.  Many of the names are missing, tags faded or
                      > simply crumble when touched.  At one time well over 500 varieties,
                      > many known only by number or hybridizer...is that a word?.  If I
                      > wasn't so old and fat I'd be digging more up today...okay okay mostly
                      > f! at.  I nearly dropped to my knees upon finding this place in May of
                      > last year with thousands of 4 foot sheared azaleas under an ocean of
                      > flowers...row upon row of beauty, yup I teared up.  Viagra couldn't
                      > have worked as well as my excitement was that day.  I plan to ask if
                      > she is willing to share/sell her old stock with members of the
                      > Society.  These azaleas need to be shared and distributed.  Her son
                      > will soon be taking over the nursery and I fear many of the unique
                      > varieties will be destroyed.
                      >   David Groff
                      > Columbia SC zone 8
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >> Hi "kawikasc",
                      >>
                      >> 'Otakumi', listed as a Wada hybrid (one i and in single quotes to
                      >> indicate a cultivar name as listed in the IRRC), is pictured in one
                      > of
                      >> the Satsuki books.  Based on the photo, it bears a strong
                      > similarity to
                      >> 'Seigai'.
                      >>
                      >> I don't recognize the name "Yamazaki" as related to the azalea and
                      > saw
                      >> no reference to it in Galle (first edition).  Yamazaki was the site
                      > of a
                      >> famous battle in Japan.  However, given the format...."Rhododendron
                      >> Otakumii Yamazaki",  the Yamazaki could be a reference to a
                      > Japanese
                      >> botanist.
                      >>
                      >> As a general rule, it is desirable to include information on where
                      > you
                      >> obtained your azalea. The original source often is the best source
                      > for
                      >> additional information.
                      >>
                      >> I located an abstract where the name otakumi is used as a form
                      > name  and
                      >> thus appears in italics.  It also mentions the term "rheophyte"
                      > which
                      >> was new to me.....  plants that are found along streams and river
                      >> banks.   Take a look at the URL:
                      >>
                      >> wwwsoc.nii.ac.jp/jsps/APG/abstracts/APG55-1_abstracts.html
                      >>
                      >> Bill Miller
                      >> Bethesda, Maryland
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> kawikasc wrote:
                      >>
                      >> >I recently added an image to the photo section. I ran across this
                      >> >unusual azalea last year and am hoping someone will confirm its
                      >> >identity. I believe it to be Rhododendron Otakumii Yamazaki.  The
                      >> >specifics match Galles' description(page 134).  The leaves are
                      > quite
                      >> >small 3/16-1/4 inch wide, serrated, length up to 1 inch.  The
                      > flowers
                      >> >resemble Polypetalum but are a pale orange. I was unable to locate
                      > any
                      >> >web sources for comparision.
                      >> >Thanks,
                      >> >kawikasc zone 8
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > When you reply t! o an email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s) only, as
                      > context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo lines.
                      > And PLEASE tell us your city, state and/or USDA zone.
                      >
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                    • Mike Creel
                      Very recently Mrs. Margie told me that the source of the Nooz-Minikari was a gentleman from Chapin, SC who specialized in bonsai and obtained his first plant,
                      Message 10 of 17 , Aug 8, 2005
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                        Very recently Mrs. Margie told me that the source of
                        the Nooz-Minikari was a gentleman from Chapin, SC who
                        specialized in bonsai and obtained his first plant,
                        among other azaleas, directly from Japan. He has
                        since died.
                        Mike Creel, Lexington, SC

                        --- Mary & Bill McDavit <osprey1@...> wrote:

                        > David,
                        >
                        > Early on, Margie Wingard told me that the azalea
                        > had come from a Japanese hybridizer in your area,
                        > but he had since died. She had no other news than
                        > that, so perhaps the azalea had originated in this
                        > country by that gentleman. Too bad we can't afford
                        > DNA testing!! Then again, perhaps the subject
                        > gentleman brought the azalea in from Japan.
                        > I'm still of the opinion that 'Chinzan' and
                        > 'Polypetalum' blood is in 'Noozminikari'. All three
                        > bloom at the same time, and the commonality is
                        > striking.
                        >
                        > Good Luck,
                        >
                        > Bill McDavit - Sunset Lakes, NC - Zone 8
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: David Groff
                        > To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 7:12 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [AZ] Re: Otakumii?
                        >
                        >
                        > Mary and Bill,
                        > I've bought from the Wingard's for years and
                        > that was my original source for the "Noozminikari".
                        > A couple of other area nurseries also have carried
                        > it. I was never able to find out anything about the
                        > azalea either on the web or azalea books(English or
                        > Japanese) until I found a single flip flop named
                        > photo in a recently acquired Japanese book or
                        > magazine. I've looked through a dozen or so of the
                        > books today and haven't relocated it yet. The only
                        > english in the books is by the picture so I have to
                        > search them page by page. As soon as I find the
                        > info I'll post it. I have another 40 Japanese
                        > Satsuki magazines being shipped by sea that I should
                        > receive shortly maybe they will have more examples.
                        > David Groff
                        > Columbia SC zone 8
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Mary & Bill McDavit <osprey1@...> wrote:
                        > David,
                        >
                        > Could these folks be named Margie & Judd
                        > Wingard? There's is a
                        > Mom-and-Pop nursery in Lexington, SC, just out
                        > of Columbia very near a huge
                        > lake. We got our four plants from them around
                        > about 1989. They have done
                        > fantastically well, even though a huge pine tree
                        > fell in their midst. I'll
                        > attach a photo or two of what we have. My guess
                        > is that the plant is a
                        > cross between 'Chinzan' and 'Polypetalum',
                        > although I've got no proof of
                        > that.
                        >
                        > Warm Regards,
                        >
                        > Bill McDavit - Sunset Lakes, NC - Zone 8
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: "kawikasc" <kawikasc@...>;
                        > "kawikasc" <kawikasc@...>
                        > To: <osprey1@...>
                        > Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 1:09 PM
                        > Subject: [AZ] Re: Otakumii?
                        >
                        >
                        > >
                        > > Hi Bill,
                        > > ! I found what little information I have on
                        > the azalea in Galle's
                        > > book, 2nd printing page 134. It states that
                        > "it is a relatively
                        > > newly identified species from the banks of the
                        > Otakumii River.." I've
                        > > had a few of the small twisted/curled leaf
                        > azaleas before and this is
                        > > unlike any of them. Galle describes the
                        > "spring foliage as being
                        > > narrow linear 1/2-1 inch long, 3/16-1/4
                        > wide"..with summer leaves
                        > > generally smaller to 1/2 inch. "Winter
                        > coloration is reddish"
                        > > Everything in Galle's description seems to
                        > match what I have with the
                        > > exception of the serrated edging to the
                        > leaves. I've searched all of
                        > > my Japanese Azalea books and have found
                        > nothing similiar, they mostly
                        > > display Satsuki and Kurume azaleas.
                        > > I bought the azalea from a mom and pop
                        > nursery outside of
                        > > Columbia, SC. I've lived here for thirty
                        > years and only found out
                        > > about it last year.&! nbsp; It is simply known
                        > as "Azaleas For Sale" on
                        > > their sign. No advertising, no name, no
                        > listing in the phone book.
                        > > As best I can recall the nursery started over
                        > 30 years ago with
                        > > plants sent to them from a family member at
                        > either the National
                        > > Arboretum or one in PA. I have been fortunate
                        > in that owner/wife has
                        > > taken a liking to me and allowed me to buy any
                        > of her original old
                        > > stock plants, something not done before, due
                        > to family illness. We
                        > > both were going throught the same thing, her
                        > with her husband and me
                        > > with my late mother. As far as I am
                        > concerened it's the Holy Grail
                        > > of azalea nurseries. Many of the names are
                        > missing, tags faded or
                        > > simply crumble when touched. At one time well
                        > over 500 varieties,
                        > > many known only by number or hybridizer...is
                        > that a word?. If I
                        > > wasn't so old and fat I'd be digging more up
                        > today...okay okay mostly
                        > > f! at. I nearly dropped to my knees upon
                        > finding this place in May of
                        > > last year with thousands of 4 foot sheared
                        > azaleas under an ocean of
                        > > flowers...row upon row of beauty, yup I teared
                        > up. Viagra couldn't
                        > > have worked as well as my excitement was that
                        > day. I plan to ask if
                        > > she is willing to share/sell her old stock
                        > with members of the
                        > > Society. These azaleas need to be shared and
                        > distributed. Her son
                        > > will soon be taking over the nursery and I
                        > fear many of the unique
                        > > varieties will be destroyed.
                        > > David Groff
                        > > Columbia SC zone 8
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >> Hi "kawikasc",
                        > >>
                        > >> 'Otakumi', listed as a Wada hybrid (one i and
                        > in single quotes to
                        > >> indicate a cultivar name as listed in the
                        > IRRC), is pictured in one
                        > > of
                        > >> the Satsuki books. Based on the photo, it
                        > bears a strong
                        > > similarity to
                        > >> 'Seigai'.
                        > >>
                        > >> I don't recognize the name "Yamazaki" as
                        > related to the azalea and
                        > > saw
                        > >> no reference to it in Galle (first edition).
                        > Yamazaki was the site
                        > > of a
                        > >> famous battle in Japan. However, given the
                        > format...."Rhododendron
                        > >> Otakumii Yamazaki", the Yamazaki could be a
                        > reference to a
                        > > Japanese
                        > >> botanist.
                        > >>
                        > >> As a general rule, it is desirable to include
                        > information on where
                        > > you
                        > >> obtained your azalea. The original source
                        > often is the best source
                        > > for
                        > >> additional information.
                        > >>
                        > >> I located an abstract where the name otakumi
                        > is used as a form
                        > > name and
                        > >> thus appears in italics. It also mentions
                        > the term "rheophyte"
                        > > which
                        > >> was new to me..... plants that are found
                        > along streams and river
                        > >> banks. Take a look at the URL:
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        >
                        wwwsoc.nii.ac.jp/jsps/APG/abstracts/APG55-1_abstracts.html
                        > >>
                        > >> Bill Miller
                        > >> Bethesda, Maryland
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> kawikasc wrote:
                        > >>
                        > >> >I recently added an image to the photo
                        > section. I ran across this
                        >
                        === message truncated ===


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                      • Mary & Bill McDavit
                        David, Thank you. I ll change our data base asap. The LFSB had the correct spelling.......... naturally!! Bill McDavit - Sunset Lakes, NC - Zone 8 ... From:
                        Message 11 of 17 , Aug 9, 2005
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                          David,

                          Thank you. I'll change our data base asap. The LFSB had the correct
                          spelling.......... naturally!!

                          Bill McDavit - Sunset Lakes, NC - Zone 8



                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "David Groff" <kawikasc@...>
                          To: <azaleas@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 7:37 PM
                          Subject: [AZ] Re: Otakumii?


                          > Mary and Bill,
                          > One last thing. Did you also get their "Myuki" satsuki....the've
                          > had a couple of different spellings over the years? If so add an "i"
                          > to the name for the correct spelling Miyuki. I have the named picture
                          > in my hands from a Japanese magazine so I'm positive on this one. I
                          > only hope I wasn't on a gin induced binge and imagined the
                          > Noozminikari/Mininoozkari.
                          > David Groff
                          > Columbia SC zone 8
                        • Mary & Bill McDavit
                          Mike, Wow, thanks for the info!! I ll log all this for future reference. If Margie ever told me that, I d forgotten. At my age CRS is a common disease, you
                          Message 12 of 17 , Aug 9, 2005
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                            Mike,

                            Wow, thanks for the info!! I'll log all this for future reference. If
                            Margie ever told me that, I'd forgotten. At my age CRS is a common disease,
                            you know.

                            Bill McDavit - Sunset Lakes, NC - Zone 8





                            > Very recently Mrs. Margie told me that the source of
                            > the Nooz-Minikari was a gentleman from Chapin, SC who
                            > specialized in bonsai and obtained his first plant,
                            > among other azaleas, directly from Japan. He has
                            > since died.
                            > Mike Creel, Lexington, SC
                            >
                            > --- Mary & Bill McDavit <osprey1@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >> David,
                            >>
                            >> Early on, Margie Wingard told me that the azalea
                            >> had come from a Japanese hybridizer in your area,
                            >> but he had since died. She had no other news than
                            >> that, so perhaps the azalea had originated in this
                            >> country by that gentleman. Too bad we can't afford
                            >> DNA testing!! Then again, perhaps the subject
                            >> gentleman brought the azalea in from Japan.
                            >> I'm still of the opinion that 'Chinzan' and
                            >> 'Polypetalum' blood is in 'Noozminikari'. All three
                            >> bloom at the same time, and the commonality is
                            >> striking.
                            >>
                            >> Good Luck,
                          • Mike Creel
                            On June 17, 2005 I visited Wingards Nurwry just outside of Lexington, SC on SC 6 (road to Lake Murray dam) and compared their azaleas with ones blooming in my
                            Message 13 of 17 , Aug 9, 2005
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                              On June 17, 2005 I visited Wingards Nurwry just
                              outside of Lexington, SC on SC 6 (road to Lake Murray
                              dam) and compared their azaleas with ones blooming in
                              my yard. The small-leaved, small-flowered pink we
                              have been discussing was labelled exactly
                              "Nooz-Minikari." I have been unable to find a
                              cultivar anywhere with a description or name close to
                              this. We often "interpret" Japanese names too freely.

                              I did find a cultivar listed named Nikuna No Hikari,
                              Light of Japan, white with few flakes of light pink
                              andyellow-green blotch with overlapping lobes, 2 1/2
                              inches. This description matches my UnkEver azalea.

                              Just fiqured out the CRS syndrome. I usally encounter
                              it after opening the refrigerator or going to the
                              grocery store. Maybe it's the cold air.
                              Mike Creel, SC, Zone 8a

                              --- Mary & Bill McDavit <osprey1@...> wrote:

                              > Mike,
                              >
                              > Wow, thanks for the info!! I'll log all this
                              > for future reference. If
                              > Margie ever told me that, I'd forgotten. At my age
                              > CRS is a common disease,
                              > you know.
                              >
                              > Bill McDavit - Sunset Lakes, NC - Zone 8
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > > Very recently Mrs. Margie told me that the source
                              > of
                              > > the Nooz-Minikari was a gentleman from Chapin, SC
                              > who
                              > > specialized in bonsai and obtained his first
                              > plant,
                              > > among other azaleas, directly from Japan. He has
                              > > since died.
                              > > Mike Creel, Lexington, SC
                              > >
                              > > --- Mary & Bill McDavit <osprey1@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > >> David,
                              > >>
                              > >> Early on, Margie Wingard told me that the
                              > azalea
                              > >> had come from a Japanese hybridizer in your area,
                              > >> but he had since died. She had no other news
                              > than
                              > >> that, so perhaps the azalea had originated in
                              > this
                              > >> country by that gentleman. Too bad we can't
                              > afford
                              > >> DNA testing!! Then again, perhaps the subject
                              > >> gentleman brought the azalea in from Japan.
                              > >> I'm still of the opinion that 'Chinzan' and
                              > >> 'Polypetalum' blood is in 'Noozminikari'. All
                              > three
                              > >> bloom at the same time, and the commonality is
                              > >> striking.
                              > >>
                              > >> Good Luck,
                              >
                              >
                              >


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