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RE: [AZ] Glenn Dale Hybrids Stability

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  • Krabill, Daniel
    Joe, I am intrigued by your question regarding the stability of various of the Glenn Dales and the impact of that instability on.their attractiveness to the
    Message 1 of 3 , Jun 1, 2005
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      Joe,
          I am intrigued by your question regarding the stability of various of the Glenn Dales and the impact of that instability on.their attractiveness to the "green trade."  I am growing the majority of the Glenn Dales, some for as long as 20 years and a few beginning this year.
          In my view, one drawback to the Glenn Dales is the existence of 454 varieties from the outset, many of which are quite similar to each other.  To begin to answer your question, I had to reduce the list of Glenn Dales to a more manageable number.  Galle's book makes reference to a survey of "eye-catcher/good-doer" Glenn Dales performed by the Ben Morrison Chapter of the ASA and published in the April 1981 issue of the Azalean.  Respondents to that survey were supposed to have at least 10 years of experience in growing Glenn Dales and to have grown and tested at least 100 varieties of Glenn Dales.  It was not totally clear what criteria the respondents used in ranking the Glenn Dales.  In any event, their responses identified 29 Glenn Dales that they considered to be particularly desirable, presumably based on some combination of attractive flowers and hardiness, and I assume other factors.to varying degrees.  I would use the results of the survey as a starting point for identifying azaleas with characteristics for consideration by professional growers, if they are reasonably stable.
          Those 29 Glenn Dales, in the order of ranking in the 1981 survey, are as follows, with my comments on stability.
      1.    Martha Hitchcock -- some variance regarding having white center or not
      2.    Glacier -- stable
      3.    Buccaneer -- stable
      4.    Dayspring -- stable
      5-18.
          Ambrosia -- stable
          Boldface -- I am pretty sure my plant is wrong, so I have obtained it from other sources recently but do not have much experience with the new plants
          Copperman -- stable
          Delos -- stable -- I would not put it on any list of favorites, stems are too weak to hold the flowers
          Dream -- stable
          Fashion -- stable
          Festive -- has some solid sports
          Gaiety -- stable
          Geisha -- has some solid sports
          Glamour -- stable
          Helen Close -- stable -- I would not include it on my list of favorites
          Refrain -- has a sport that is grown under the name Mary Sidden, and is also quite attractive
          Sagittarius -- stable -- I have heard from 2 different sources that it is not cold hardy -- also, I do not find it to be attractive
          Treasure -- stable
      19-29.
          Aphrodite -- stable
          Ben Morrison -- stable -- not a Glenn Dale
          Campfire -- I am not sure that I have the correct plant -- often confused with the Gable Campfire -- probably should not be on the list
          Fawn -- stable
          Gorgeous -- stable
          Grace Freeman -- has a bordered sport, Grace Freeman #2, that I have never seen on my plant, but that I believe Harris used in his hybridizing
          Greeting -- stable
          Louise Dowdle -- I have two different plants under this name and am not sure which, if either, is correct --have not had a lot of experience with either
          Moonbeam -- stable
          Surprise -- stable
          Zulu -- stable
       
          Others will have different favorites among the Glenn Dales, as I do.  In particular, my view is that earlier-blooming varieties may be most attractive to non-ASA buyers for a number of reasons, including the brilliant colors of azaleas at a time when there are fewer alternatives for color in the garden, and the longer-lasting blooms than on mid- and late bloomers due to milder weather and less problem with petal blight.  Others may have different experience with some of the above varieties.  I hope that they will respond.
          If you cannot track down the April 1981 Azalean, I can EMail it to you.  It may take a while for you to bring it up depending on what type of service you have, since it is in pdf form and I don't know how to do anything but send the whole issue.
       
              Dan Krabill
              McLean, Virginia.   
      -----Original Message-----
      From: azaleas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:azaleas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Schild
      Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 1:29 PM
      To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [AZ] Glenn Dale Hybrids Stability

      Folks,
      With all the discussion on the various Glenn Dale named cultivars that are
      so unstable with their sporting nature, from a grower's perspective, how
      many named cultivars of the GD's are stable and would make excellent
      introductions to the green trade?

      I can see how a commercial grower would hesitate to invest in time and
      money propagating any of the unstable cultivars.
       
      This message may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message, including any attachments, without retaining a copy.

      Please note that internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure; we therefore do not accept responsibility for any corruption of this message or any attachments, which may have occurred during the internet transmission of the message.
    • Joe Schild
      Dan, Thank you so much for the list of Glenn Dales that are apparent good introductions to the trade from our members, ie. the Ben Morrison Chapter. In the
      Message 2 of 3 , Jun 1, 2005
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        Dan,
        Thank you so much for the list of Glenn Dales that are apparent good introductions to the trade from our members, ie. the Ben Morrison Chapter. In the list, I noted a number I have seen in the trade, but a lot more not seen. I will contact John Brown for a copy of the back issue that has the evaluation. If, for any reason he does not have it, I will request your pdf copy.
         
        I really enjoyed meeting you at the convention and can place a face beside the name. Thanks again and best regards.
         
        Joe Schild-Hixson, TN USDA Zone 7a
        Ask a friend to join the Azalea Society of America!
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: 6/1/05 6:46:52 PM
        Subject: RE: [AZ] Glenn Dale Hybrids Stability

        Joe,
            I am intrigued by your question regarding the stability of various of the Glenn Dales and the impact of that instability on.their attractiveness to the "green trade."  I am growing the majority of the Glenn Dales, some for as long as 20 years and a few beginning this year.
            In my view, one drawback to the Glenn Dales is the existence of 454 varieties from the outset, many of which are quite similar to each other.  To begin to answer your question, I had to reduce the list of Glenn Dales to a more manageable number.  Galle's book makes reference to a survey of "eye-catcher/good-doer" Glenn Dales performed by the Ben Morrison Chapter of the ASA and published in the April 1981 issue of the Azalean.  Respondents to that survey were supposed to have at least 10 years of experience in growing Glenn Dales and to have grown and tested at least 100 varieties of Glenn Dales.  It was not totally clear what criteria the respondents used in ranking the Glenn Dales.  In any event, their responses identified 29 Glenn Dales that they considered to be particularly desirable, presumably based on some combination of attractive flowers and hardiness, and I assume other factors.to varying degrees.  I would use the results of the survey as a starting point for identifying azaleas with characteristics for consideration by professional growers, if they are reasonably stable.
            Those 29 Glenn Dales, in the order of ranking in the 1981 survey, are as follows, with my comments on stability.
        1.    Martha Hitchcock -- some variance regarding having white center or not
        2.    Glacier -- stable
        3.    Buccaneer -- stable
        4.    Dayspring -- stable
        5-18.
            Ambrosia -- stable
            Boldface -- I am pretty sure my plant is wrong, so I have obtained it from other sources recently but do not have much experience with the new plants
            Copperman -- stable
            Delos -- stable -- I would not put it on any list of favorites, stems are too weak to hold the flowers
            Dream -- stable
            Fashion -- stable
            Festive -- has some solid sports
            Gaiety -- stable
            Geisha -- has some solid sports
            Glamour -- stable
            Helen Close -- stable -- I would not include it on my list of favorites
            Refrain -- has a sport that is grown under the name Mary Sidden, and is also quite attractive
            Sagittarius -- stable -- I have heard from 2 different sources that it is not cold hardy -- also, I do not find it to be attractive
            Treasure -- stable
        19-29.
            Aphrodite -- stable
            Ben Morrison -- stable -- not a Glenn Dale
            Campfire -- I am not sure that I have the correct plant -- often confused with the Gable Campfire -- probably should not be on the list
            Fawn -- stable
            Gorgeous -- stable
            Grace Freeman -- has a bordered sport, Grace Freeman #2, that I have never seen on my plant, but that I believe Harris used in his hybridizing
            Greeting -- stable
            Louise Dowdle -- I have two different plants under this name and am not sure which, if either, is correct --have not had a lot of experience with either
            Moonbeam -- stable
            Surprise -- stable
            Zulu -- stable
         
            Others will have different favorites among the Glenn Dales, as I do.  In particular, my view is that earlier-blooming varieties may be most attractive to non-ASA buyers for a number of reasons, including the brilliant colors of azaleas at a time when there are fewer alternatives for color in the garden, and the longer-lasting blooms than on mid- and late bloomers due to milder weather and less problem with petal blight.  Others may have different experience with some of the above varieties.  I hope that they will respond.
            If you cannot track down the April 1981 Azalean, I can EMail it to you.  It may take a while for you to bring it up depending on what type of service you have, since it is in pdf form and I don't know how to do anything but send the whole issue.
         
                Dan Krabill
                McLean, Virginia.   
        -----Original Message-----
        From: azaleas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:azaleas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Schild
        Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 1:29 PM
        To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [AZ] Glenn Dale Hybrids Stability

        Folks,
        With all the discussion on the various Glenn Dale named cultivars that are
        so unstable with their sporting nature, from a grower's perspective, how
        many named cultivars of the GD's are stable and would make excellent
        introductions to the green trade?

        I can see how a commercial grower would hesitate to invest in time and
        money propagating any of the unstable cultivars.
         
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      • Joe Schild
        OH, one more point to make on the similarity of a number of the Glenn Dales. While posting the entire list, 454, to my computer database, I made room for
        Message 3 of 3 , Jun 1, 2005
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          OH, one more point to make on the similarity of a number of the Glenn Dales. While posting the entire list, 454, to my computer database, I made room for columns on bloom time, growth habit, flower color (s), and other factors. When I sorted by color, I saw an interesting factor. Though there were many of similar flower colors, there was a definitive break when it came to bloom time and growth habit, therefore, similar flower colors may not be a deterrent to the trade as long as there is a difference in growth habit and bloom time. In fact, that may be a plus allowing for a single color to begin flowering early and continuing on through mid-season to late, perhaps giving the illusion of a longer bloom period in a landscape.
           
          Though I have not used most the Glenn Dales for color extension, I do have a large drift of azaleas on a sloping bank that start with 'Fielder's White', then 'Del Valley White', and end with 'Galcier'. This gives the illusion of white that slowly drifts down the bank over an extended time frame of nearly five weeks. All of the plants are over six feet in height and give a nice bright white in deep shade. Once the single flowers fall off, the slope is hardly recognized because of the mass of green.
           
          Joe Schild-Hixson, TN USDA Zone 7a
          Ask a friend to join the Azalea Society of America!
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: 6/1/05 6:46:52 PM
          Subject: RE: [AZ] Glenn Dale Hybrids Stability

          Joe,
              I am intrigued by your question regarding the stability of various of the Glenn Dales and the impact of that instability on.their attractiveness to the "green trade."  I am growing the majority of the Glenn Dales, some for as long as 20 years and a few beginning this year.
              In my view, one drawback to the Glenn Dales is the existence of 454 varieties from the outset, many of which are quite similar to each other.  To begin to answer your question, I had to reduce the list of Glenn Dales to a more manageable number.  Galle's book makes reference to a survey of "eye-catcher/good-doer" Glenn Dales performed by the Ben Morrison Chapter of the ASA and published in the April 1981 issue of the Azalean.  Respondents to that survey were supposed to have at least 10 years of experience in growing Glenn Dales and to have grown and tested at least 100 varieties of Glenn Dales.  It was not totally clear what criteria the respondents used in ranking the Glenn Dales.  In any event, their responses identified 29 Glenn Dales that they considered to be particularly desirable, presumably based on some combination of attractive flowers and hardiness, and I assume other factors.to varying degrees.  I would use the results of the survey as a starting point for identifying azaleas with characteristics for consideration by professional growers, if they are reasonably stable.
              Those 29 Glenn Dales, in the order of ranking in the 1981 survey, are as follows, with my comments on stability.
          1.    Martha Hitchcock -- some variance regarding having white center or not
          2.    Glacier -- stable
          3.    Buccaneer -- stable
          4.    Dayspring -- stable
          5-18.
              Ambrosia -- stable
              Boldface -- I am pretty sure my plant is wrong, so I have obtained it from other sources recently but do not have much experience with the new plants
              Copperman -- stable
              Delos -- stable -- I would not put it on any list of favorites, stems are too weak to hold the flowers
              Dream -- stable
              Fashion -- stable
              Festive -- has some solid sports
              Gaiety -- stable
              Geisha -- has some solid sports
              Glamour -- stable
              Helen Close -- stable -- I would not include it on my list of favorites
              Refrain -- has a sport that is grown under the name Mary Sidden, and is also quite attractive
              Sagittarius -- stable -- I have heard from 2 different sources that it is not cold hardy -- also, I do not find it to be attractive
              Treasure -- stable
          19-29.
              Aphrodite -- stable
              Ben Morrison -- stable -- not a Glenn Dale
              Campfire -- I am not sure that I have the correct plant -- often confused with the Gable Campfire -- probably should not be on the list
              Fawn -- stable
              Gorgeous -- stable
              Grace Freeman -- has a bordered sport, Grace Freeman #2, that I have never seen on my plant, but that I believe Harris used in his hybridizing
              Greeting -- stable
              Louise Dowdle -- I have two different plants under this name and am not sure which, if either, is correct --have not had a lot of experience with either
              Moonbeam -- stable
              Surprise -- stable
              Zulu -- stable
           
              Others will have different favorites among the Glenn Dales, as I do.  In particular, my view is that earlier-blooming varieties may be most attractive to non-ASA buyers for a number of reasons, including the brilliant colors of azaleas at a time when there are fewer alternatives for color in the garden, and the longer-lasting blooms than on mid- and late bloomers due to milder weather and less problem with petal blight.  Others may have different experience with some of the above varieties.  I hope that they will respond.
              If you cannot track down the April 1981 Azalean, I can EMail it to you.  It may take a while for you to bring it up depending on what type of service you have, since it is in pdf form and I don't know how to do anything but send the whole issue.
           
                  Dan Krabill
                  McLean, Virginia.   
          -----Original Message-----
          From: azaleas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:azaleas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Schild
          Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 1:29 PM
          To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [AZ] Glenn Dale Hybrids Stability

          Folks,
          With all the discussion on the various Glenn Dale named cultivars that are
          so unstable with their sporting nature, from a grower's perspective, how
          many named cultivars of the GD's are stable and would make excellent
          introductions to the green trade?

          I can see how a commercial grower would hesitate to invest in time and
          money propagating any of the unstable cultivars.
           
          This message may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message, including any attachments, without retaining a copy.

          Please note that internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure; we therefore do not accept responsibility for any corruption of this message or any attachments, which may have occurred during the internet transmission of the message.


          When you reply to this email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s) only, as context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo lines.  Also PLEASE tell us where you garden (city, state or at least your USDA zone).

          We welcome images RESIZED to be under 100KB in size - 640 x 480 pixel .jpg images at 50% or 1:40 compression are ideal.

          To unsubscribe, send an email to: azaleas-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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