Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Update on Atlanticum X Pryored seedlings, in ground since April 2011

Expand Messages
  • sjperk5
    Mark How do you know the evergreen azaleas you have are tetraploids? John
    Message 1 of 15 , Jul 1, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Mark

      How do you know the evergreen azaleas you have are tetraploids?

      John

      --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, Mark <prometheus4096@...> wrote:
      >
      > Following this deciduous x evergreen azalea stuff is always very interesting to me. Yellow would be nice. But I as an evergreen person am often impressed by the flowers of some deciduous azalea flowers. They are very flashy and buff and brightly coloured. Also very fleshy looking flowers. Also they have different flowe colour patterns than evergreens.
      > As a satsuki person I am really more interested in flashy interesting flowers on individual plants than on azalea that excel as landscape plants.
      > But still I really prefer the evergreeness.
      >
      > I have some white satsuki that have tetraploid so I really want to try that with some deciduous ones. Is a tetraploid x tetraploid needed? I will probably be buying one to hybridize with. I really like the idea of adding many new different genes and innovating.
      > But I always got the idea it was too problematic to be worthwhile to try an evergreen x deciduous cross.
      >
      >
      >
      > Mark Nijland
      >
    • sjperk5
      Mike We need to get these 2 seedlings ploidy tested. John Perkins Salem, NH
      Message 2 of 15 , Jul 1, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Mike

        We need to get these 2 seedlings ploidy tested.

        John Perkins
        Salem, NH

        --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, Mike Creel <mikeacreel@...> wrote:
        >
        > Ron, at what point should I notice flower bud formation in a unique cross like this one?  The absence, so far, of lateral branching is curious to me. All growth has been on straight upright shoots coming from the plant base at the soil level.  I have never seen this trait in an evergreen, but it is common in stoloniferous native azaleas species like atlanticum, periclymenoides, viscosum and canadense.
        >
        >
        > Mike Creel, SC USDA Zone 8a
        > Lexington, South Carolina
        >
        >
        > >________________________________
        > >From: Ron Rabideau <rhodyrex@...>
        > >To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
        > >Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 10:25 PM
        > >Subject: Re: [AZ] Update on Atlanticum X Pryored seedlings, in ground since April 2011
        > >
        > >Hi Mike,
        > >Thanks for those photos. The larger plant looks like it might be of 
        > >adequate maturity to make flower buds this season, keep your fingers 
        > >crossed!  It will be very interesting to see what colors you get.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 17:25:44 -0400, Mike Creel <mikeacreel@...> 
        > >wrote:
        > >
        > >> Ron Rabideau asked me recently for an update on two deciduous X 
        > >> evergreen azalea seedlings that came from Spring 2004 hand pollination. 
        > >> The larger of the two plants has had a very dwarf congested, 
        > >> non-branching habit, a cluster of upright 3 inch red stemmed shoots 
        > >> growing in a container 2005-2011, with planting in the ground in April 
        > >> 2011.  This season something new is showing, three or more new 6 inch 
        > >> tall arising from the short mound of  stems, still no evidence of 
        > >> branching.  Attached are three photos, 2 of the larger seedling and one 
        > >> of its much smaller sibling. I have seen no evidence of flower bud 
        > >> formation and wonder whether the buds will be like the decidous parent 
        > >> or the evergreen one.  The plants have  remained evergreen down to 13 
        > >> degrees F, grown their entire lives outdoors.  They are apparentlly 
        > >> quite heat hardy.
        > >>  The deciduous X evergreen crosses are two evergreen seedlings that came 
        > >> from hand pollination of a white-pale pink large flowered atlanticum 
        > >> from Washington County, NC, with pollen from Pryored, a strong red 
        > >> evergreen that has a Yellow deciduous mollis azalea in its lineage, a 
        > >> strong dose of prunifolium and Indica.  I found a label in the seedling 
        > >> pot with the pollination date of May 3, 2004.  The seeds were planted in 
        > >> fall-winter 2005.  I planted out two surviving seedlings from the pot 
        > >> this spring on April 6 into a soil bed mulched with pine bark. Both are 
        > >> evergreen, one plant much larger than the other. The root structure, 
        > >> multiple stems from underground branching, and whorled evergreen leaves 
        > >> were significant indicators of parentage involving the atlanticum.  The 
        > >> evergeen leaves resemble the Pryored, which has plumleaf azalea strongly 
        > >> in its parentage.
        > >>
        > >> Mike Creel, SC USDA Zone 8a
        > >> Lexington, South Carolina
        > >
        > >
        > >--
        > >Ron Rabideau
        > >Camden, NJ
        > >Zone 7b
        > >
        > >
        > >------------------------------------
        > >
        > >When you reply to an email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s) only, as context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo lines.  And PLEASE tell us your city, state and/or USDA zone.
        > >
        > >We welcome attached images RESIZED to be under 100KB in size - 640 x 480 pixel JPEG images at 50% or 1:40 compression are ideal. By attaching them you agree that, without giving up your rights to them, they may be shown on Azalea Society websites.
        > >
        > >To unsubscribe, send an email to: azaleas-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >
        > >Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Mark
        I googled for all satsuki studies I could find a year or so back. Found this one: https://qir.kyushu-u.ac.jp/dspace/bitstream/2324/4713/1/p073.pdf They did
        Message 3 of 15 , Jul 1, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          I googled for all satsuki studies I could find a year or so back.
          Found this one:
          https://qir.kyushu-u.ac.jp/dspace/bitstream/2324/4713/1/p073.pdf

          They did flow cytometric analysis. Then they tested the effect of polyploidy on the viability of different combinations.



          Mark
        • Mike Creel
          I assume that flower buds are necessary for ploidy testing, is that correct?  I have no flower buds YET, but more than anxiously await their formation for
          Message 4 of 15 , Jul 1, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            I assume that flower buds are necessary for ploidy testing, is that correct?  I have no flower buds YET, but more than anxiously await their formation for hopefully the 2013 blooming season.  I have to know what color and form the flowers will take, also whether the bloom bud resembles the atlanticum or the Pryored.
             
            My priorities at this point is to keep the two seedlings thriving within my yard watering system, yet not overwater.  Temperatures up to 113 degrees have been recorded in the past few days on the university grounds downtown and up to 110 in our yard. 
             
            Also I plan to root a duplicate copy of the larger seedling as insurance against plant loss.  I may already have a duplicate but I did a mixed pot with cuttings of the seedling and both parents.  The leaves look very much like Pryored.  All it would take to lose this plant is one squirrel planting nuts and a short period of 100 plus weather.
             
            Yesterday at dusk and into early night we were intertained by 4 screech owls in the back yard flitting, talking to each other and perching around our bird feeders (particularly a dish of meal worms), our large bog, garden pond and bird bath.  They perched on chairs, the bird feeders, the bird bath and a large iron heron in the edge of the pond.
             
            Mike Creel, SC USDA Zone 8a
            Lexington, South Carolina
            From: sjperk5 <sjperk5@...>
            To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2012 10:45 AM
            Subject: Re: [AZ] Update on Atlanticum X Pryored seedlings, in ground since April 2011

             
            Mike

            We need to get these 2 seedlings ploidy tested.

            John Perkins
            Salem, NH

            --- In mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com, Mike Creel <mikeacreel@...> wrote:
            >
            > Ron, at what point should I notice flower bud formation in a unique cross like this one?  The absence, so far, of lateral branching is curious to me. All growth has been on straight upright shoots coming from the plant base at the soil level.  I have never seen this trait in an evergreen, but it is common in stoloniferous native azaleas species like atlanticum, periclymenoides, viscosum and canadense.
            >
            >
            > Mike Creel, SC USDA Zone 8a
            > Lexington, South Carolina
            >
            >
            > >________________________________
            > >From: Ron Rabideau <rhodyrex@...>
            > >To: mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com
            > >Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 10:25 PM
            > >Subject: Re: [AZ] Update on Atlanticum X Pryored seedlings, in ground since April 2011
            > >
            > >Hi Mike,
            > >Thanks for those photos. The larger plant looks like it might be of 
            > >adequate maturity to make flower buds this season, keep your fingers 
            > >crossed!  It will be very interesting to see what colors you get.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 17:25:44 -0400, Mike Creel <mikeacreel@...> 
            > >wrote:
            > >
            > >> Ron Rabideau asked me recently for an update on two deciduous X 
            > >> evergreen azalea seedlings that came from Spring 2004 hand pollination. 
            > >> The larger of the two plants has had a very dwarf congested, 
            > >> non-branching habit, a cluster of upright 3 inch red stemmed shoots 
            > >> growing in a container 2005-2011, with planting in the ground in April 
            > >> 2011.  This season something new is showing, three or more new 6 inch 
            > >> tall arising from the short mound of  stems, still no evidence of 
            > >> branching.  Attached are three photos, 2 of the larger seedling and one 
            > >> of its much smaller sibling. I have seen no evidence of flower bud 
            > >> formation and wonder whether the buds will be like the decidous parent 
            > >> or the evergreen one.  The plants have  remained evergreen down to 13 
            > >> degrees F, grown their entire lives outdoors.  They are apparentlly 
            > >> quite heat hardy.
            > >>  The deciduous X evergreen crosses are two evergreen seedlings that came 
            > >> from hand pollination of a white-pale pink large flowered atlanticum 
            > >> from Washington County, NC, with pollen from Pryored, a strong red 
            > >> evergreen that has a Yellow deciduous mollis azalea in its lineage, a 
            > >> strong dose of prunifolium and Indica.  I found a label in the seedling 
            > >> pot with the pollination date of May 3, 2004.  The seeds were planted in 
            > >> fall-winter 2005.  I planted out two surviving seedlings from the pot 
            > >> this spring on April 6 into a soil bed mulched with pine bark. Both are 
            > >> evergreen, one plant much larger than the other. The root structure, 
            > >> multiple stems from underground branching, and whorled evergreen leaves 
            > >> were significant indicators of parentage involving the atlanticum.  The 
            > >> evergeen leaves resemble the Pryored, which has plumleaf azalea strongly 
            > >> in its parentage.
            > >>
            > >> Mike Creel, SC USDA Zone 8a
            > >> Lexington, South Carolina
            > >
            > >
            > >--
            > >Ron Rabideau
            > >Camden, NJ
            > >Zone 7b
            > >
            > >
            > >------------------------------------
            > >
            > >When you reply to an email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s) only, as context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo lines.  And PLEASE tell us your city, state and/or USDA zone.
            > >
            > >We welcome attached images RESIZED to be under 100KB in size - 640 x 480 pixel JPEG images at 50% or 1:40 compression are ideal. By attaching them you agree that, without giving up your rights to them, they may be shown on Azalea Society websites.
            > >
            > >To unsubscribe, send an email to: mailto:azaleas-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > >Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >



          • sjperk5
            Mike Flower buds are very much preferred but leaves do work for ploidy testing. Flower buds ship betterm cheaper,a dn produce cleaner results but 99.9
            Message 5 of 15 , Jul 1, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              Mike

              Flower buds are very much preferred but leaves do work for ploidy testing.

              Flower buds ship betterm cheaper,a dn produce "cleaner" results but 99.9 percentage of the time a good reading for a leaf is identical ploidy level wise as from the flower bud.

              John Perkins
              Salem, NH

              --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, Mike Creel <mikeacreel@...> wrote:
              >
              > I assume that flower buds are necessary for ploidy testing, is that correct?  I have no flower buds YET, but more than anxiously await their formation for hopefully the 2013 blooming season.  I have to know what color and form the flowers will take, also whether the bloom bud resembles the atlanticum or the Pryored.
              >  
              > My priorities at this point is to keep the two seedlings thriving within my yard watering system, yet not overwater.  Temperatures up to 113 degrees have been recorded in the past few days on the university grounds downtown and up to 110 in our yard. 
              >  
              > Also I plan to root a duplicate copy of the larger seedling as insurance against plant loss.  I may already have a duplicate but I did a mixed pot with cuttings of the seedling and both parents.  The leaves look very much like Pryored.  All it would take to lose this plant is one squirrel planting nuts and a short period of 100 plus weather.
              >  
              > Yesterday at dusk and into early night we were intertained by 4 screech owls in the back yard flitting, talking to each other and perching around our bird feeders (particularly a dish of meal worms), our large bog, garden pond and bird bath.  They perched on chairs, the bird feeders, the bird bath and a large iron heron in the edge of the pond.
              >
              > Mike Creel, SC USDA Zone 8a
              > Lexington, South Carolina
              >
              >
              > >________________________________
              > >From: sjperk5 <sjperk5@...>
              > >To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
              > >Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2012 10:45 AM
              > >Subject: Re: [AZ] Update on Atlanticum X Pryored seedlings, in ground since April 2011
              > >
              > >
              > > 
              > >Mike
              > >
              > >We need to get these 2 seedlings ploidy tested.
              > >
              > >John Perkins
              > >Salem, NH
              > >
              > >--- In mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com, Mike Creel <mikeacreel@> wrote:
              > >>
              > >> Ron, at what point should I notice flower bud formation in a unique cross like this one?  The absence, so far, of lateral branching is curious to me. All growth has been on straight upright shoots coming from the plant base at the soil level.  I have never seen this trait in an evergreen, but it is common in stoloniferous native azaleas species like atlanticum, periclymenoides, viscosum and canadense.
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> Mike Creel, SC USDA Zone 8a
              > >> Lexington, South Carolina
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> >________________________________
              > >> >From: Ron Rabideau <rhodyrex@>
              > >> >To: mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com
              > >> >Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 10:25 PM
              > >> >Subject: Re: [AZ] Update on Atlanticum X Pryored seedlings, in ground since April 2011
              > >> >
              > >> >Hi Mike,
              > >> >Thanks for those photos. The larger plant looks like it might be of 
              > >> >adequate maturity to make flower buds this season, keep your fingers 
              > >> >crossed!  It will be very interesting to see what colors you get.
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >> >On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 17:25:44 -0400, Mike Creel <mikeacreel@> 
              > >> >wrote:
              > >> >
              > >> >> Ron Rabideau asked me recently for an update on two deciduous X 
              > >> >> evergreen azalea seedlings that came from Spring 2004 hand pollination. 
              > >> >> The larger of the two plants has had a very dwarf congested, 
              > >> >> non-branching habit, a cluster of upright 3 inch red stemmed shoots 
              > >> >> growing in a container 2005-2011, with planting in the ground in April 
              > >> >> 2011.  This season something new is showing, three or more new 6 inch 
              > >> >> tall arising from the short mound of  stems, still no evidence of 
              > >> >> branching.  Attached are three photos, 2 of the larger seedling and one 
              > >> >> of its much smaller sibling. I have seen no evidence of flower bud 
              > >> >> formation and wonder whether the buds will be like the decidous parent 
              > >> >> or the evergreen one.  The plants have  remained evergreen down to 13 
              > >> >> degrees F, grown their entire lives outdoors.  They are apparentlly 
              > >> >> quite heat hardy.
              > >> >>  The deciduous X evergreen crosses are two evergreen seedlings that came 
              > >> >> from hand pollination of a white-pale pink large flowered atlanticum 
              > >> >> from Washington County, NC, with pollen from Pryored, a strong red 
              > >> >> evergreen that has a Yellow deciduous mollis azalea in its lineage, a 
              > >> >> strong dose of prunifolium and Indica.  I found a label in the seedling 
              > >> >> pot with the pollination date of May 3, 2004.  The seeds were planted in 
              > >> >> fall-winter 2005.  I planted out two surviving seedlings from the pot 
              > >> >> this spring on April 6 into a soil bed mulched with pine bark. Both are 
              > >> >> evergreen, one plant much larger than the other. The root structure, 
              > >> >> multiple stems from underground branching, and whorled evergreen leaves 
              > >> >> were significant indicators of parentage involving the atlanticum.  The 
              > >> >> evergeen leaves resemble the Pryored, which has plumleaf azalea strongly 
              > >> >> in its parentage.
              > >> >>
              > >> >> Mike Creel, SC USDA Zone 8a
              > >> >> Lexington, South Carolina
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >> >--
              > >> >Ron Rabideau
              > >> >Camden, NJ
              > >> >Zone 7b
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >> >------------------------------------
              > >> >
              > >> >When you reply to an email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s) only, as context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo lines.  And PLEASE tell us your city, state and/or USDA zone.
              > >> >
              > >> >We welcome attached images RESIZED to be under 100KB in size - 640 x 480 pixel JPEG images at 50% or 1:40 compression are ideal. By attaching them you agree that, without giving up your rights to them, they may be shown on Azalea Society websites.
              > >> >
              > >> >To unsubscribe, send an email to: mailto:azaleas-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com
              > >> >
              > >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
            • sjperk5
              Mark Thanks, I never been able to get this pdf to work correctly when I open it (I seen the paper before) but the small portions of this paper I have read are
              Message 6 of 15 , Jul 1, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                Mark

                Thanks, I never been able to get this pdf to work correctly when I open it (I seen the paper before) but the small portions of this paper I have read are very intersting.

                If you have any of the ployploid evergreen azaleas mentioned in this paper I would love to test them.

                John Perkins
                Salem, Nh

                --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, Mark <prometheus4096@...> wrote:
                >
                > I googled for all satsuki studies I could find a year or so back.
                >
                > Found this one:
                > https://qir.kyushu-u.ac.jp/dspace/bitstream/2324/4713/1/p073.pdf
                >
                > They did flow cytometric analysis. Then they tested the effect of polyploidy on the viability of different combinations.
                >
                >
                >
                > Mark
                >
              • Mark
                I am in Europe and there are US satsuki people here that have many more and larger satsuki than I have. So I can t really help you with that. Good luck with
                Message 7 of 15 , Jul 1, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  I am in Europe and there are US satsuki people here that have many more and larger satsuki than I have.
                  So I can't really help you with that. Good luck with any testing you might do.

                  Mark
                • sjperk5
                  Mark We do our testing in Portugal so people in Europe can provide samples. We arrange for the samples to be sent directly to the testers. John Perkins Salem,
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jul 2, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Mark

                    We do our testing in Portugal so people in Europe can provide samples.

                    We arrange for the samples to be sent directly to the testers.

                    John Perkins
                    Salem, NH

                    --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, Mark <prometheus4096@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I am in Europe and there are US satsuki people here that have many more and larger satsuki than I have.
                    > So I can't really help you with that. Good luck with any testing you might do.
                    >
                    >
                    > Mark
                    >
                  • Mark
                    Ill remember that if I ever want some azalea tested. I think someone mentioned you use flower buds for testing. Let me note that Suisen and it s sports are
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jul 2, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Ill remember that if I ever want some azalea tested.

                      I think someone mentioned you use flower buds for testing. Let me note that 'Suisen' and it's sports are mixoploid of 2n and 4n. If I remember correct, the roots were plain 2n while other parts of the plants were mixed and the gametes were tetraploid gametes (so 2n).
                      In Japan 'Suisen' has been a very popular cultivar to hybridize with the last two decades or so. The thick petals are a really nice feature.

                      Mark
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.