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Re: Occidentale habitiats-Oregon

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  • Steve Henning
    Hi Red, Thanks for following up on that. I was really curious what they could have. As you suggested, it was from plantings. I am surprised that the USDA
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 1, 2012
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      Hi Red,

      Thanks for following up on that. I was really curious what they could have. As you suggested, it was from plantings. I am surprised that the USDA didn't distinguish between specimens collected in the wild and those from gardens. That puts all of their range data into question.

      I am going to contact people at the USDA and suggest they correct their range data for R. occidentale. The map that Clarice provided is much better than what the USDA is using.

      Now if we can get Mike to go down to Mexico, we might have the "rest of the story."

      Happy New Year Everyone!

      Steve Henning, Zone 6, Reading, PA USA



      --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, "occidentale" <red@...> wrote:
      >
      > Steve & Clarice suggested that I check out the herbarium specimen at Linfield Collage in Mc Minnville, Oregon. I received the following from John Syring at the college. This, along with the notes Clarice found in "Vascular Plants of the Pacific NW", Vol 4, pretty much confirms our opinion that the R. occidentale in Lincoln, Benton and Yamhill counties of Oregon, referenced on the USDA website, are most likely imported to the area and not native.
      >
      > Bob wonders why R. occidentale didn't migrate farther north after the last ice age. I don't know how the seed would be spread so I can't answer that question. However, he does note that it will self sow from imported plants. With climate change other plants and animals are moving north so maybe R. occidentale will. Mike Oliver and I have discussed, on our long drives, the possibility of collecting quantities of seed and sowing it in suitable areas farther north. We haven't done so but it is a thought.
      >
      > Dick 'Red' Cavender, Red's Rhodies, Sherwood Oregon USA Zone 8
      >
      > Richard--
      >
      > We have a relatively small collection here at Linfield. But I was surprised to see how small our collections were for Rhododendron. We only have two specimens, both from Yamhill county.
      >
      > R. occidentale, collected in 1926, and
      > R. macrophyllum, collected in 1901
      >
      > Both are planted individuals as you suspected. R. occidentale was collected in "City park woods" and R. macrophyllum from a private yard in town.
      >
      > Hope this helps let me know if I can be of further assistance.
      >
      > John Syring
      >
    • Bob Dunning
      It s going to be really tough to find R. occidentale in Mexico. First, there is strong reason based on various authorities to think it is not there. Second,
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 2, 2012
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        It's going to be really tough to find R. occidentale in Mexico.  First, there is strong reason based on various authorities to think it is not there.  Second, even if there are tiny populations in certain unknown remote high altitude wet spots, it would not be my preference to be in those locations with the current problems in Mexico. 
        --
        Bob Dunning

        On 1/1/2012 7:45 AM, Steve Henning wrote:
         

        Hi Red,

        Thanks for following up on that. I was really curious what they could have. As you suggested, it was from plantings. I am surprised that the USDA didn't distinguish between specimens collected in the wild and those from gardens. That puts all of their range data into question.

        I am going to contact people at the USDA and suggest they correct their range data for R. occidentale. The map that Clarice provided is much better than what the USDA is using.

        Now if we can get Mike to go down to Mexico, we might have the "rest of the story."

        Happy New Year Everyone!

        Steve Henning, Zone 6, Reading, PA USA

        --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, "occidentale" <red@...> wrote:
        >
        > Steve & Clarice suggested that I check out the herbarium specimen at Linfield Collage in Mc Minnville, Oregon. I received the following from John Syring at the college. This, along with the notes Clarice found in "Vascular Plants of the Pacific NW", Vol 4, pretty much confirms our opinion that the R. occidentale in Lincoln, Benton and Yamhill counties of Oregon, referenced on the USDA website, are most likely imported to the area and not native.
        >
        > Bob wonders why R. occidentale didn't migrate farther north after the last ice age. I don't know how the seed would be spread so I can't answer that question. However, he does note that it will self sow from imported plants. With climate change other plants and animals are moving north so maybe R. occidentale will. Mike Oliver and I have discussed, on our long drives, the possibility of collecting quantities of seed and sowing it in suitable areas farther north. We haven't done so but it is a thought.
        >
        > Dick 'Red' Cavender, Red's Rhodies, Sherwood Oregon USA Zone 8
        >
        > Richard--
        >
        > We have a relatively small collection here at Linfield. But I was surprised to see how small our collections were for Rhododendron. We only have two specimens, both from Yamhill county.
        >
        > R. occidentale, collected in 1926, and
        > R. macrophyllum, collected in 1901
        >
        > Both are planted individuals as you suspected. R. occidentale was collected in "City park woods" and R. macrophyllum from a private yard in town.
        >
        > Hope this helps let me know if I can be of further assistance.
        >
        > John Syring
        >

      • sjperk5
        Maybe the answer to finding occidentale in Mexico is to support Occupy Tijuana Occupy Ensenada Occupy La Paz Occupy Cabo etc Having a bunch of people camped
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 2, 2012
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          Maybe the answer to finding occidentale in Mexico is to support

          Occupy Tijuana
          Occupy Ensenada
          Occupy La Paz
          Occupy Cabo
          etc

          Having a bunch of people camped out in these various areas during bloom season might be the answer.

          John Perkins
          Salem, NH

          --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, Bob Dunning <bob.dunning@...> wrote:
          >
          > It's going to be really tough to find R. occidentale in Mexico. First, there is strong reason based on various authorities to think
          > it is not there. Second, even if there are tiny populations in certain unknown remote high altitude wet spots, it would not be my
          > preference to be in those locations with the current problems in Mexico.
          > --
          > Bob Dunning
          >
          > On 1/1/2012 7:45 AM, Steve Henning wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi Red,
          > >
          > > Thanks for following up on that. I was really curious what they could have. As you suggested, it was from plantings. I am
          > > surprised that the USDA didn't distinguish between specimens collected in the wild and those from gardens. That puts all of their
          > > range data into question.
          > >
          > > I am going to contact people at the USDA and suggest they correct their range data for R. occidentale. The map that Clarice
          > > provided is much better than what the USDA is using.
          > >
          > > Now if we can get Mike to go down to Mexico, we might have the "rest of the story."
          > >
          > > Happy New Year Everyone!
          > >
          > > Steve Henning, Zone 6, Reading, PA USA
          > >
          > > --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>, "occidentale" <red@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Steve & Clarice suggested that I check out the herbarium specimen at Linfield Collage in Mc Minnville, Oregon. I received the
          > > following from John Syring at the college. This, along with the notes Clarice found in "Vascular Plants of the Pacific NW", Vol 4,
          > > pretty much confirms our opinion that the R. occidentale in Lincoln, Benton and Yamhill counties of Oregon, referenced on the USDA
          > > website, are most likely imported to the area and not native.
          > > >
          > > > Bob wonders why R. occidentale didn't migrate farther north after the last ice age. I don't know how the seed would be spread so
          > > I can't answer that question. However, he does note that it will self sow from imported plants. With climate change other plants
          > > and animals are moving north so maybe R. occidentale will. Mike Oliver and I have discussed, on our long drives, the possibility
          > > of collecting quantities of seed and sowing it in suitable areas farther north. We haven't done so but it is a thought.
          > > >
          > > > Dick 'Red' Cavender, Red's Rhodies, Sherwood Oregon USA Zone 8
          > > >
          > > > Richard--
          > > >
          > > > We have a relatively small collection here at Linfield. But I was surprised to see how small our collections were for
          > > Rhododendron. We only have two specimens, both from Yamhill county.
          > > >
          > > > R. occidentale, collected in 1926, and
          > > > R. macrophyllum, collected in 1901
          > > >
          > > > Both are planted individuals as you suspected. R. occidentale was collected in "City park woods" and R. macrophyllum from a
          > > private yard in town.
          > > >
          > > > Hope this helps let me know if I can be of further assistance.
          > > >
          > > > John Syring
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • Bob Kelly
          Good plan, John. Now: any volunteers? Bob Kelly Aberdeen, MS ... From: sjperk5 To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 7:20 AM Subject: Re:
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 2, 2012
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            Good plan, John.  Now: any volunteers?
             
            Bob Kelly
            Aberdeen, MS
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: sjperk5
            Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 7:20 AM
            Subject: Re: [AZ] Occidentale habitats-Oregon

             

            Maybe the answer to finding occidentale in Mexico is to support

            Occupy Tijuana
            Occupy Ensenada
            Occupy La Paz
            Occupy Cabo
            etc

            Having a bunch of people camped out in these various areas during bloom season might be the answer.

            John Perkins
            Salem, NH

            --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, Bob Dunning <bob.dunning@...> wrote:
            >
            > It's going to be really tough to find R. occidentale in Mexico. First, there is strong reason based on various authorities to think
            > it is not there. Second, even if there are tiny populations in certain unknown remote high altitude wet spots, it would not be my
            > preference to be in those locations with the current problems in Mexico.
            > --
            > Bob Dunning
            >
            > On 1/1/2012 7:45 AM, Steve Henning wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi Red,
            > >
            > > Thanks for following up on that. I was really curious what they could have. As you suggested, it was from plantings. I am
            > > surprised that the USDA didn't distinguish between specimens collected in the wild and those from gardens. That puts all of their
            > > range data into question.
            > >
            > > I am going to contact people at the USDA and suggest they correct their range data for R. occidentale. The map that Clarice
            > > provided is much better than what the USDA is using.
            > >
            > > Now if we can get Mike to go down to Mexico, we might have the "rest of the story."
            > >
            > > Happy New Year Everyone!
            > >
            > > Steve Henning, Zone 6, Reading, PA USA
            > >
            > > --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>, "occidentale" <red@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Steve & Clarice suggested that I check out the herbarium specimen at Linfield Collage in Mc Minnville, Oregon. I received the
            > > following from John Syring at the college. This, along with the notes Clarice found in "Vascular Plants of the Pacific NW", Vol 4,
            > > pretty much confirms our opinion that the R. occidentale in Lincoln, Benton and Yamhill counties of Oregon, referenced on the USDA
            > > website, are most likely imported to the area and not native.
            > > >
            > > > Bob wonders why R. occidentale didn't migrate farther north after the last ice age. I don't know how the seed would be spread so
            > > I can't answer that question. However, he does note that it will self sow from imported plants. With climate change other plants
            > > and animals are moving north so maybe R. occidentale will. Mike Oliver and I have discussed, on our long drives, the possibility
            > > of collecting quantities of seed and sowing it in suitable areas farther north. We haven't done so but it is a thought.
            > > >
            > > > Dick 'Red' Cavender, Red's Rhodies, Sherwood Oregon USA Zone 8
            > > >
            > > > Richard--
            > > >
            > > > We have a relatively small collection here at Linfield. But I was surprised to see how small our collections were for
            > > Rhododendron. We only have two specimens, both from Yamhill county.
            > > >
            > > > R. occidentale, collected in 1926, and
            > > > R. macrophyllum, collected in 1901
            > > >
            > > > Both are planted individuals as you suspected. R. occidentale was collected in "City park woods" and R. macrophyllum from a
            > > private yard in town.
            > > >
            > > > Hope this helps let me know if I can be of further assistance.
            > > >
            > > > John Syring
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            >

          • Larry Wallace
            Kidnappings are now less important. The police have switched from kidnapping the 1% which cause too much political trouble to the middle class. For US
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 2, 2012
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              Kidnappings are now less important.  The police have switched from kidnapping the 1% which cause too much political trouble to the middle class.  

              For US government employees:
              "Travel by vehicle is permitted between Hermosillo and Nogales."  Mexico 15 toll road is allegedly safe.


              -- 


              Larry Wallace
              Cincinnati


            • rick wilmoth
              Hi, a good friend of mine is on the botany staff at the Smithsonian, Dr. Paul M. Peterson. I know he has trveled through many of the remote areas f Mexico
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 2, 2012
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                Hi, a good friend of mine is on the botany staff at the Smithsonian, Dr. Paul M. Peterson. I know he has trveled through many of the remote areas f Mexico collecting plants. He or someone else on their staff might provide you with the information you want. Rick Wilmoth, Monrovia, Ca.  








                To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                From: bob.dunning@...
                Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 01:34:38 -0800
                Subject: Re: [AZ] Occidentale habitats-Oregon

                 
                It's going to be really tough to find R. occidentale in Mexico.  First, there is strong reason based on various authorities to think it is not there.  Second, even if there are tiny populations in certain unknown remote high altitude wet spots, it would not be my preference to be in those locations with the current problems in Mexico. 
                --
                Bob Dunning

                On 1/1/2012 7:45 AM, Steve Henning wrote:
                 
                Hi Red,

                Thanks for following up on that. I was really curious what they could have. As you suggested, it was from plantings. I am surprised that the USDA didn't distinguish between specimens collected in the wild and those from gardens. That puts all of their range data into question.

                I am going to contact people at the USDA and suggest they correct their range data for R. occidentale. The map that Clarice provided is much better than what the USDA is using.

                Now if we can get Mike to go down to Mexico, we might have the "rest of the story."

                Happy New Year Everyone!

                Steve Henning, Zone 6, Reading, PA USA

                --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, "occidentale" <red@...> wrote:
                >
                > Steve & Clarice suggested that I check out the herbarium specimen at Linfield Collage in Mc Minnville, Oregon. I received the following from John Syring at the college. This, along with the notes Clarice found in "Vascular Plants of the Pacific NW", Vol 4, pretty much confirms our opinion that the R. occidentale in Lincoln, Benton and Yamhill counties of Oregon, referenced on the USDA website, are most likely imported to the area and not native.
                >
                > Bob wonders why R. occidentale didn't migrate farther north after the last ice age. I don't know how the seed would be spread so I can't answer that question. However, he does note that it will self sow from imported plants. With climate change other plants and animals are moving north so maybe R. occidentale will. Mike Oliver and I have discussed, on our long drives, the possibility of collecting quantities of seed and sowing it in suitable areas farther north. We haven't done so but it is a thought.
                >
                > Dick 'Red' Cavender, Red's Rhodies, Sherwood Oregon USA Zone 8
                >
                > Richard--
                >
                > We have a relatively small collection here at Linfield. But I was surprised to see how small our collections were for Rhododendron. We only have two specimens, both from Yamhill county.
                >
                > R. occidentale, collected in 1926, and
                > R. macrophyllum, collected in 1901
                >
                > Both are planted individuals as you suspected. R. occidentale was collected in "City park woods" and R. macrophyllum from a private yard in town.
                >
                > Hope this helps let me know if I can be of further assistance.
                >
                > John Syring
                >



              • Mike Creel
                I have been trying to make some botanical contacts, either carnivorous plant hobby growers or botanists with a university, inside Mexico, but no leads or
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 2, 2012
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                  I have been trying to make some botanical contacts, either carnivorous plant hobby growers or botanists with a university, inside Mexico, but no leads or contacts as yet.  I may have to try corresponding with my Creel relatives who became a respeced Mexican family after the US civil war.  There is a little town named for the family, Creel, Mexico, and in recent years a Creel was head of the interior ministry.
                   
                  Shortly the garden range of R. occidentale will be extended to the South Carolina midlands when my ground seeded plants finally come into flower.  Our freezes here are bringing  some nice color in the seedlings in my front yard, which are still holding their leaves.
                   
                  Mike Creel, SC USDA Zone 8a
                  Lexington, South Carolina
                  From: rick wilmoth <wilmo94@...>
                  To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, January 2, 2012 10:51 AM
                  Subject: RE: [AZ] Occidentale habitats-Oregon

                   
                  Hi, a good friend of mine is on the botany staff at the Smithsonian, Dr. Paul M. Peterson. I know he has trveled through many of the remote areas f Mexico collecting plants. He or someone else on their staff might provide you with the information you want. Rick Wilmoth, Monrovia, Ca.  







                  To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                  From: bob.dunning@...
                  Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 01:34:38 -0800
                  Subject: Re: [AZ] Occidentale habitats-Oregon

                   
                  It's going to be really tough to find R. occidentale in Mexico.  First, there is strong reason based on various authorities to think it is not there.  Second, even if there are tiny populations in certain unknown remote high altitude wet spots, it would not be my preference to be in those locations with the current problems in Mexico. 
                  --
                  Bob Dunning

                  On 1/1/2012 7:45 AM, Steve Henning wrote:
                   
                  Hi Red,

                  Thanks for following up on that. I was really curious what they could have. As you suggested, it was from plantings. I am surprised that the USDA didn't distinguish between specimens collected in the wild and those from gardens. That puts all of their range data into question.

                  I am going to contact people at the USDA and suggest they correct their range data for R. occidentale. The map that Clarice provided is much better than what the USDA is using.

                  Now if we can get Mike to go down to Mexico, we might have the "rest of the story."

                  Happy New Year Everyone!

                  Steve Henning, Zone 6, Reading, PA USA

                  --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, "occidentale" <red@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Steve & Clarice suggested that I check out the herbarium specimen at Linfield Collage in Mc Minnville, Oregon. I received the following from John Syring at the college. This, along with the notes Clarice found in "Vascular Plants of the Pacific NW", Vol 4, pretty much confirms our opinion that the R. occidentale in Lincoln, Benton and Yamhill counties of Oregon, referenced on the USDA website, are most likely imported to the area and not native.
                  >
                  > Bob wonders why R. occidentale didn't migrate farther north after the last ice age. I don't know how the seed would be spread so I can't answer that question. However, he does note that it will self sow from imported plants. With climate change other plants and animals are moving north so maybe R. occidentale will. Mike Oliver and I have discussed, on our long drives, the possibility of collecting quantities of seed and sowing it in suitable areas farther north. We haven't done so but it is a thought.
                  >
                  > Dick 'Red' Cavender, Red's Rhodies, Sherwood Oregon USA Zone 8
                  >
                  > Richard--
                  >
                  > We have a relatively small collection here at Linfield. But I was surprised to see how small our collections were for Rhododendron. We only have two specimens, both from Yamhill county.
                  >
                  > R. occidentale, collected in 1926, and
                  > R. macrophyllum, collected in 1901
                  >
                  > Both are planted individuals as you suspected. R. occidentale was collected in "City park woods" and R. macrophyllum from a private yard in town.
                  >
                  > Hope this helps let me know if I can be of further assistance.
                  >
                  > John Syring
                  >





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