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RE: [AZ] Ward's Ruby

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  • Harold Greer
    Well Nick, the picture is dated October 1957 and all the cars in the picture are of that vintage. So who in that picture might still be alive? My father on
    Message 1 of 32 , Apr 2, 2011
    • 0 Attachment

      Well Nick, the picture is dated October 1957 and all the cars in the picture are of that vintage.   So who in that picture might still be alive?  My father on the left facing the camera is 50 years older than I am, so I if were him, I would be 115.   I would like to live that long and still be able to react and name plants as I do, though I doubt I will at that age!

       

      Harold Greer

       

      From: azaleas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:azaleas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nicholas Yarmoshuk
      Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 4:31 PM
      To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [AZ] Ward's Ruby

       

       

      For the rest of us . . .  which is Harold . . .?   The kid?

      Nick Yarmoshuk
      Out of the loop wannabee.

      On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Harold Greer <hgreer@...> wrote:

       

      [Attachment(s) from Harold Greer included below]

      Ok Elaine, you asked for it!

       

      Harold

       

      From: azaleas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:azaleas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Elaine Sedlack
      Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 1:36 PM
      To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com


      Subject: Re: [AZ] Ward's Ruby

       

       

      Ask Harold to post the one of him and his dad with the Buick.

       

      Elaine

       


      From: William C. Miller III <bill@...>
      To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sat, April 2, 2011 12:56:43 PM


      Subject: Re: [AZ] Ward's Ruby


       

      Dave,

      It wouldn't have to be sophisticated.  Most browsers will do a character-string search.  While I'm dreaming, it would be nice to have an index to photographs as well.  I don't have a good image of Harold Greer, but I bet there is a respectable one in JARS somewhere.


      William C. Miller III (Bill)
      Bethesda, Maryland --- Zone 7
      www.theazaleaworks.com


      David Banks wrote:

       

      Which brings up the question: why do we not approach the subject of an on-line index to JARS--preferably by author as well as subject?

      Dave Banks

      On 4/2/11 2:18 PM, Elaine Sedlack wrote:

       

      Wow, Thanks, Bill,

       

      I'm glad I asked!  This is a very thoughtful, thorough response, and great infomation.  I was just trying to get an accurate label on a plant, and had only an inkling of this convoluted provenance.  I was confused because I was surfing the Web and found two references to it being a Wilson plant, under different numbers.  The descriptions under these numbers in the article in the Journal ARS, Fall 2010, by Akihide Okamoto, didn't tally with the plant as we know it..  I will go with the IRRC-unregistered Kurume.  I figured it might be a historic Japanese plant.  I doubt that it had anything to do with Kingdon-Ward, but wonder who Ward was.  I met Toichi Domoto; he was a consumate plantsman, and must have had Japanese nursery connections.  His nursery was filled with treasures.

       

      Elaine

       


      From: William C. Miller III <bill@...>
      To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sat, April 2, 2011 6:19:33 AM
      Subject: Re: [AZ] Ward's Ruby

       

      Hi Elaine,

      What are the conflicting accounts?

       

      'Ward's Ruby' is in the IRRC, but it states parentage unknown.  The RHS gave it an AM (award of merit) in 1986.  If I understand the shorthand in the IRRC, it was raised in Japan before 1920, named in the USA, but never registered.  The IRRC considers it a Kurume.  Perhaps the RHS folks have more information.  I don't have Dr. Leslie's E-mail.

      Harold's reference to Galle is useful since Galle suggests that 'Ward's Ruby' was associated with the Domoto Brothers (California nurserymen) who preceded E. H. Wilson in introducing the Kurume azaleas into the US. I skimmed Wilson's account in A Monograph of Azaleas (1921) and didn't see any mention of the Domoto Brother's efforts.  I looked in Rhododendrons and Azaleas (1936) by Clement Gray Bowers and found nothing relevant there.  I looked in Lee where at least they have a section on Domoto introductions, but 'Ward's Ruby' is not mentioned.  There is only a brief mention in Azaleas in Kurume (1989) where John Creech mentions the Pan-Pacific Exposition in San Francisco (1915) and a collaboration between Akashi and the Domoto Brothers.

      This is probably a California story, and I have no idea who Ward was.  Francis Kingdon Ward was an accident prone plant explorer, but I don't believe Japan was his beat.  Perhaps there are articles in the early JARS that might have information.  I don't suppose there is an on-line index of JARS articles that could be searched electronically?  Someone --- somewhere --- probably knows about the history of 'Ward's Ruby'.  The trick is finding them.
       

      William C. Miller III (Bill)
      Bethesda, Maryland --- Zone 7
      www.theazaleaworks.com


      Elaine Sedlack wrote:

       

      OK, Thanks.  Is there any other information about parentage or registration?

       

      Elaine

       


      From: Harold Greer <hgreer@...>
      To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 8:37:15 PM
      Subject: RE: [AZ] Ward's Ruby

       

      Elaine,

       

      According to Galle, it is not one of the Wilson’s 50.

       

      Harold

       

      From: azaleas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:azaleas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Elaine Sedlack
      Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 7:57 PM
      To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [AZ] Ward's Ruby

       

       

      Hello All,

       

      I have a question: Is 'Ward's Ruby' one of Ernest Wilson's 50 introductions from Japan?

       

      If so, which number is it?  If not, what is the derivation?

       

      Thanks, I've been confused by conflicting accounts.

       

      Elaine

       

    • William C. Miller III
      Elaine, Photos would be very helpful if there were morphological differences --- if one was hose-in-hose and the other wasn t. I don t believe either is
      Message 32 of 32 , Apr 4, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Elaine,

        Photos would be very helpful if there were morphological differences --- if one was hose-in-hose and the other wasn't.  I don't believe either is  hose-in-hose.  Color is tricky to communicate or to compare in photos. See Dr. Yamaguchi's  image at:

        http://web.agr.ehime-u.ac.jp/~dr.yamaguchi/virtualazalea/hinodenotaka.jpg

        Do you see crimson in Dr. Yamaguchi's image?  I looked up RHS 46C and it isn't what I think of as crimson or a dark ruby red for that matter. 

        Our best bet would be to find someone who has both plants, and that may be impossible


        Bill

        Elaine Sedlack wrote:
         
        I also noticed the name 'Ruby' with Wilson no. 48.  I wonder if we can ask Akihide Okamoto about this.  Maybe to compare a photo ? 
         
        Elaine 


        From: William C. Miller III <bill@...>
        To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sun, April 3, 2011 3:02:50 PM
        Subject: Re: [AZ] Ward's Ruby- Charles Ward

         

        Elaine,

        It looks like we have a problem again.  With Harold's revelation about "renaming" going on at Cottage Gardens, 'Hinode-no-taka', Wilson's No. 48, was also called 'Ruby'.  Lee describes 'Ruby' as crimson.   The IRRC describes
        'Hinode-no-taka' as vivid red (46C) with red anthers.  The IRRC just says "dark ruby red" when describing 'Ward's Ruby'.  I guess the remaining question is --- was 'Hinode-no-taka' renamed 'Ward's Ruby'?


        William C. Miller III (Bill)
        Bethesda, Maryland --- Zone 7
        www.theazaleaworks.com

        Harold Greer wrote:
         

        I would imagine that would be the case.  Cottage Gardens in Eureka would be a great climate to grow ‘Ward’s Ruby’.  Cottage Gardens also often renamed rhododendrons to fit something to do with their nursery, such as Cottage Gardens Pride, which was ‘Mrs. G. W. Leak.  It may have been Ward that I met there in the 1950’s.  He was a bit inebriated at the time, and went on about how they always renamed plants to fit their nursery.

         

        Harold Greer

         

        From: azaleas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:azaleas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tadeusz Dauksza
        Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 8:28 PM
        To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [AZ] Ward's Ruby- Charles Ward

         

         

        Ward's Ruby---  Mr.Charles W.Ward -Prezident of Cottage Gardens Nursery In Long Island ,NY-  bussiness partner of Toichi Domoto's dad who imported Kurumes into USA and then they were introduced by  his partner Charles Ward onto the East Coast then when Cottage Gardens opened a Nursery in Eureka the west coast got them.  Most of Toichi father's correspondence, catalog's , etc wer donated to Filoli.

         

         Do u think that this Kurume azalea was named for this person ???   I do.

         

        Tadeusz-Lake Michigan Chapter ASA.

         


        From: George Klump <mixturev@...>
        To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
        Cc: E White <bovees@...>
        Sent: Sat, April 2, 2011 8:28:01 PM
        Subject: Re: [AZ] Ward's Ruby

         

        2 April 2011

        White,

        Nick Milfeld presented our program earlier in March.  [It was a good one, too!]  The subject of "Ward's Ruby" came up just in passing.  Nick mentioned that this plant also goes under the name of "Ruby Glow", that it and "Ward's Ruby" are probably one and the same plant.  I believe I'm recalling that accurately.  I had one of these plants for several years under the name of "Ward's Ruby".  We are agreed here that it is probably the darkest of the reds.  There is a sport of it which goes under the name of "Ruby Nugget".  Like "Ward's Ruby" it has the small dark green foliage with a very dark, almost blood red, flower.  The flowers are not large but are spectacular.  I've always associated those with the Kurume group.  "Captain Blood" is another of similar color but, I think, it is a hybrid of some kind, not a straight Kurume.  "Red Poppy" is yet another dark red which I happen to have.  It blooms nearly all year, spot blooms anyway, but is a much larger flower and not in the Kurume family so far as I know.  I lost my "Ward's Ruby" due basically to stupidity beyond my control! :-( :-(   One of these days I've got to get a new one. 

        George E, Klump
        Southern California Chapter,. ARS/ASA









        On 4/2/2011 2:55 PM, E White wrote:

         

        I wonder if Pacific Horticulture mag has some info about Wards Ruby.  Think I remember it being in there way back in time.

         

        E White Smith
        Bovees Nursery
        Portland, Oregon
        www.bovees.com

         

        Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 11:40 AM

        Subject: Re: [AZ] Ward's Ruby [1 Attachment]

         

         

        David/Group:
        Attached is a Ten Year Index—1991 to 2000 for JARS. It's by author and subject. I think I've had this since 2000; can't remember where I got it from. Since it's a PDF, it's searchable.
        I would think there are others also?

        Bruce Clyburn
        New Waterford, NS


        On 02/04/2011 3:26 PM, David Banks wrote:

         

        Which brings up the question: why do we not approach the subject of an on-line index to JARS--preferably by author as well as subject?

        Dave Banks

        On 4/2/11 2:18 PM, Elaine Sedlack wrote:

         

        Wow, Thanks, Bill,

         

        I'm glad I asked!  This is a very thoughtful, thorough response, and great infomation.  I was just trying to get an accurate label on a plant, and had only an inkling of this convoluted provenance.  I was confused because I was surfing the Web and found two references to it being a Wilson plant, under different numbers.  The descriptions under these numbers in the article in the Journal ARS, Fall 2010, by Akihide Okamoto, didn't tally with the plant as we know it..  I will go with the IRRC-unregistered Kurume.  I figured it might be a historic Japanese plant.  I doubt that it had anything to do with Kingdon-Ward, but wonder who Ward was.  I met Toichi Domoto; he was a consumate plantsman, and must have had Japanese nursery connections.  His nursery was filled with treasures.

         

        Elaine

         


        From: William C. Miller III mailto:bill@...
        To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sat, April 2, 2011 6:19:33 AM
        Subject: Re: [AZ] Ward's Ruby

         

        Hi Elaine,

        What are the conflicting accounts?

         

        'Ward's Ruby' is in the IRRC, but it states parentage unknown.  The RHS gave it an AM (award of merit) in 1986.  If I understand the shorthand in the IRRC, it was raised in Japan before 1920, named in the USA, but never registered.  The IRRC considers it a Kurume.  Perhaps the RHS folks have more information.  I don't have Dr. Leslie's E-mail.

        Harold's reference to Galle is useful since Galle suggests that 'Ward's Ruby' was associated with the Domoto Brothers (California nurserymen) who preceded E. H. Wilson in introducing the Kurume azaleas into the US. I skimmed Wilson's account in A Monograph of Azaleas (1921) and didn't see any mention of the Domoto Brother's efforts.  I looked in Rhododendrons and Azaleas (1936) by Clement Gray Bowers and found nothing relevant there.  I looked in Lee where at least they have a section on Domoto introductions, but 'Ward's Ruby' is not mentioned.  There is only a brief mention in Azaleas in Kurume (1989) where John Creech mentions the Pan-Pacific Exposition in San Francisco (1915) and a collaboration between Akashi and the Domoto Brothers.

        This is probably a California story, and I have no idea who Ward was.  Francis Kingdon Ward was an accident prone plant explorer, but I don't believe Japan was his beat.  Perhaps there are articles in the early JARS that might have information.  I don't suppose there is an on-line index of JARS articles that could be searched electronically?  Someone --- somewhere --- probably knows about the history of 'Ward's Ruby'.  The trick is finding them.
         

        William C. Miller III (Bill)
        Bethesda, Maryland --- Zone 7
        www.theazaleaworks.com


        Elaine Sedlack wrote:

         

        OK, Thanks.  Is there any other information about parentage or registration?

         

        Elaine

         


        From: Harold Greer mailto:hgreer@...
        To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 8:37:15 PM
        Subject: RE: [AZ] Ward's Ruby

         

        Elaine,

         

        According to Galle, it is not one of the Wilson’s 50.

         

        Harold

         

        From: azaleas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:azaleas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Elaine Sedlack
        Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 7:57 PM
        To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [AZ] Ward's Ruby

         

        Hello All,

         

        I have a question: Is 'Ward's Ruby' one of Ernest Wilson's 50 introductions from Japan?

         

        If so, which number is it?  If not, what is the derivation?

         

        Thanks, I've been confused by conflicting accounts.

         

        Elaine

         

         

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