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Re: Deer Fence

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  • Steve Henning
    I am in the same situation. We used to get by with mesh bags of male hair and mesh bags of soap. The in 94 & 96, deer would just yank these off the plant
    Message 1 of 29 , Mar 31 9:08 PM
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      I am in the same situation. We used to get by with mesh bags of male hair and mesh bags of soap. The in '94 & '96, deer would just yank these off the plant and munch away. Starting after the winters of '94 & '96 we used deer netting, similar to bird netting used on blue berries, etc. It worked for 13 years great. Deer didn't challenge the netting and the squirrels would bounce off of it since they couldn't see it. 

      Then comes the winter of '09-'10. The deer ate every leaf off any rhododendron they wanted to. The avoided some, even some that were not protected. But some have every leaf gone even under the netting. The either ripped holes in the netting or got their snouts under the netting. I am not sure how they did it, but netting is not an option any more in my garden. We have several beds with Benner plastic mesh fencing. However the deer have found out how to poke holes in this now.

      I have decided to use wire fencing. We have a 1000' perimeter to our yard. It is woods on 2 sides, a neighbor on one side, and a road along the front. Lucky for us, the garage and barn are outside this perimeter. We will need several gates for mowers, people, etc.At this time I am planning on putting on a 2" x 2" wire mesh farm fence on the 3 sides. It will probably be 8' with the bottom 6" folded flat on the ground and a cable 12" above the fencing, about 8.5 ft in the air. The cable will be black so they can't see it. They are more intimidated by barriers they can't see.

      The front is the problem. We want a barrier that is esthetically pleasant, but effective. I am leaning toward a split rail fence with an electric wire in front of it and a solar battery high-tensile wire Penn State barrier behind it. Fortunately the deer pressure is mainly from the woods and not from the road. However once the farm fence is built, the pressure on the front will increase.I am open to any ideas for the front fence.

      8' Woven Wire Deer Fence http://sfr.psu.edu/facilities/fmo/deer/woven-wire?searchterm=Woven%2520Wire%2520Deer%2520Fence 


      --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, "David Nanney" <dnanney@...> wrote:>> We are getting to the point where deer fence may be our only way to survive> these four legged pests. Does anyone have a recommendation on brands,> types, heights, etc. We are probably looking at 4-5 doors as we have> several adjoining neighbors. Ideas?> > Dave Nanney

    • Larry Wallace
      There is a commodity known as putrescent egg solids . It is good for all large mammals, including us. One of the brands is Deer Away . Factory eggs have
      Message 2 of 29 , Apr 1, 2010
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        There is a commodity known as "putrescent egg solids".  It is good for all large mammals, including us.  One of the brands is 'Deer Away'. 

        Factory eggs have the outer layer washed off, then cooled causing the contents to shrink sucking in whatever.  You could leave a few around where coons and possums can't get them.  In time they will explode.

        --
        Larry Wallace
        Cincinnati
      • John Migas
        Hello David,   I feel your pain when you mention the deer problems. Most folks comment that they are cute.   After investing in a garden, watching it grow,
        Message 3 of 29 , Apr 2, 2010
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          Hello David,
           
          I feel your pain when you mention the deer problems. Most folks comment that they are cute.
           
          After investing in a garden, watching it grow, anticipating the next seasons blooms. Only to be disappointed when suddenly the deer, in one night leave you with a nightmare. Wow, I thought these activities only happened to me. I love hearing about the cute little deer stories from others.
           
          My good friend, after vitisting you and Leslie last year, you do have a major issue in protecting the garden, especially the size of your property. I have a few solutions to the problem.
           
          #1 Michael Campbell may have the right intentions but I don't think in your neighborhood
               it is allowed to hunt. Lead is the best solution.
           
          #2 Deer netting, not cheap but a great solution.
           
           
          #4 My brother decided to feed the few he was having problems with, and it does work.
               Unfortunately one evening, the deer took the liberty to invite their cousins over for
               dinner. I will end this story now since it is too painful to tell the "rest of the story".
           
          I personally have only used lead. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. IT WORKS.
          Good Luck......John Migas
           
           
           

          --- On Wed, 3/31/10, David Nanney <dnanney@...> wrote:

          From: David Nanney <dnanney@...>
          Subject: [AZ] Deer Fence
          To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Wednesday, March 31, 2010, 9:51 PM

           

          We are getting to the point where deer fence may be our only way to survive these four legged pests.  Does anyone have a recommendation on brands, types, heights, etc.  We are probably looking at 4-5 doors as we have several adjoining neighbors.  Ideas?

           

           

          Dave Nanney

           

          FFF is Buddy’s Autumn Amethyst, first in three different gardens. 

          High of 75 degrees today in Springfield, Virginia.

           


        • sjperk5
          My plan for deer control in the event we ever have this problem is pretty simple. The spring after the damage I will put out a call saying that every woody
          Message 4 of 29 , Apr 2, 2010
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            My plan for deer control in the event we ever have this problem is pretty simple. The spring after the damage I will put out a call saying that every woody plant in the yard is available free to whoever wishes to dig them.

            My yard is simply not shaped right to justify fencing it.

            Take a way the food and there will be no deer.

            John Perkins
            Salem, NH



            --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, John Migas <azaleajohn@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hello David,
            >  
            > I feel your pain when you mention the deer problems. Most folks comment that they are cute.
            >  
            > After investing in a garden, watching it grow, anticipating the next seasons blooms. Only to be disappointed when suddenly the deer, in one night leave you with a nightmare. Wow, I thought these activities only happened to me. I love hearing about the cute little deer stories from others.
            >  
            > My good friend, after vitisting you and Leslie last year, you do have a major issue in protecting the garden, especially the size of your property. I have a few solutions to the problem.
            >  
            > #1 Michael Campbell may have the right intentions but I don't think in your neighborhood
            >      it is allowed to hunt. Lead is the best solution.
            >  
            > #2 Deer netting, not cheap but a great solution.
            >      http://www.growerssupply.com/farm/supplies/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10001&langId=-1&division=GrowersSupply&productId=15969
            >  
            > #3 Chemicals
            >    http://search.store.yahoo.net/cgi-bin/nsearch?catalog=btgrowersupply&query=deer&.autodone=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.growersupply.com%2F%3FOVRAW%3Dgrowerssupply.com%26OVKEY%3Dnursery%2520supply%26OVMTC%3Dadvanced%26OVADID%3D857159521%26OVKWID%3D5130145521%26OVCAMPGID%3D77014021%26OVADGRPID%3D362550909%26OVNDID%3DND1
            >  
            > #4 My brother decided to feed the few he was having problems with, and it does work.
            >      Unfortunately one evening, the deer took the liberty to invite their cousins over for
            >      dinner. I will end this story now since it is too painful to tell the "rest of the story".
            >  
            > I personally have only used lead. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. IT WORKS.
            > Good Luck......John Migas
            >  
            >  
            >  
            >
            > --- On Wed, 3/31/10, David Nanney <dnanney@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > From: David Nanney <dnanney@...>
            > Subject: [AZ] Deer Fence
            > To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Wednesday, March 31, 2010, 9:51 PM
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > We are getting to the point where deer fence may be our only way to survive these four legged pests.  Does anyone have a recommendation on brands, types, heights, etc.  We are probably looking at 4-5 doors as we have several adjoining neighbors.  Ideas?
            >  
            >  
            > Dave Nanney
            >  
            > FFF is Buddy’s Autumn Amethyst, first in three different gardens. 
            > High of 75 degrees today in Springfield, Virginia.
            >  
            >
          • Mark R. Wright
            Here in rural N Florida it s truly a crap shoot and depends on where the deer can find the most food. It s gotten to where it s nearly impossible to have a
            Message 5 of 29 , Apr 2, 2010
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              Here in rural N Florida it's truly a crap shoot and depends on where the deer can find the most food. It's gotten to where it's nearly impossible to have a vegetable garden especially peas or beans. It's funny, when I was a kid growing up here and houses were far and few between it was fairly rare to see deer. Now they're everywhere and a danger to motorists especially at night. I raise Christmas trees and they do thousands of dollars in damage each year when the bucks rub their horns on the younger trees in the fall. I've found no solutions on a large scale, but maybe someone who's trying to protect a small area might use some of the alternatives to lead. I quite like the idea when in season and needing to fill the freezer.
              Happy Easter weekend to all,
              Mark Wright
              Temps in the mid 80's here in N Florida


              -----Original Message-----
              From: sjperk5
              Sent: Apr 2, 2010 8:19 PM
              To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [AZ] Deer Fence

               

              My plan for deer control in the event we ever have this problem is pretty simple. The spring after the damage I will put out a call saying that every woody plant in the yard is available free to whoever wishes to dig them.

              My yard is simply not shaped right to justify fencing it.

              Take a way the food and there will be no deer.

              John Perkins
              Salem, NH

              --- In azaleas@yahoogroups .com, John Migas <azaleajohn@ ...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Hello David,
              >  
              > I feel your pain when you mention the deer problems. Most folks comment that they are cute.
              >  
              > After investing in a garden, watching it grow, anticipating the next seasons blooms. Only to be disappointed when suddenly the deer, in one night leave you with a nightmare. Wow, I thought these activities only happened to me. I love hearing about the cute little deer stories from others.
              >  
              > My good friend, after vitisting you and Leslie last year, you do have a major issue in protecting the garden, especially the size of your property. I have a few solutions to the problem.
              >  
              > #1 Michael Campbell may have the right intentions but I don't think in your neighborhood
              >      it is allowed to hunt. Lead is the best solution.
              >  
              > #2 Deer netting, not cheap but a great solution.
              >      http://www.growerss upply.com/ farm/supplies/ ProductDisplay? catalogId= 10551&storeId= 10001&langId= -1&division= GrowersSupply& productId= 15969
              >  
              > #3 Chemicals
              >    http://search. store.yahoo. net/cgi-bin/ nsearch?catalog= btgrowersupply& query=deer& .autodone= http%3A%2F% 2Fwww.growersupp ly.com%2F% 3FOVRAW%3Dgrower ssupply.com% 26OVKEY%3Dnurser y%2520supply% 26OVMTC%3Dadvanc ed%26OVADID% 3D857159521% 26OVKWID% 3D5130145521% 26OVCAMPGID% 3D77014021% 26OVADGRPID% 3D362550909% 26OVNDID% 3DND1
              >  
              > #4 My brother decided to feed the few he was having problems with, and it does work.
              >      Unfortunately one evening, the deer took the liberty to invite their cousins over for
              >      dinner. I will end this story now since it is too painful to tell the "rest of the story".
              >  
              > I personally have only used lead. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. IT WORKS.
              > Good Luck......John Migas
              >  
              >  
              >  
              >
              > --- On Wed, 3/31/10, David Nanney <dnanney@... > wrote:
              >
              >
              > From: David Nanney <dnanney@... >
              > Subject: [AZ] Deer Fence
              > To: azaleas@yahoogroups .com
              > Date: Wednesday, March 31, 2010, 9:51 PM
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > We are getting to the point where deer fence may be our only way to survive these four legged pests.  Does anyone have a recommendation on brands, types, heights, etc.  We are probably looking at 4-5 doors as we have several adjoining neighbors.  Ideas?
              >  
              >  
              > Dave Nanney
              >  
              > FFF is Buddy’s Autumn Amethyst, first in three different gardens. 
              > High of 75 degrees today in Springfield, Virginia.
              >  
              >

            • Steve Henning
              Hi John, It is not only woody plants, it is annuals, perennials, and grass also. Deer only have biting teeth on their lower jaw, so they don t bite, they rip
              Message 6 of 29 , Apr 3, 2010
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                Hi John,

                It is not only woody plants, it is annuals, perennials, and grass also. Deer only have biting teeth on their lower jaw, so they don't bite, they rip plants apart. I don't think anyone would want to take the effort to dig up our leafless twigs.

                The fence man came out yesterday to give me an estimate. He uses an 8-foot hi-tensile black wire mesh fencing stretched between wood posts that are 24' apart except adjacent to corners and gates where they are typically 12' apart. We don't want the fence in front of our house, so we will run the fence from the sides of the house and then out around our 1.5 acre landscaped area. The 70' front of our house will be exposed. If necessary we can use netting or sprays there.

                Along the short side in front we will use a split rail facade and on the long side paint the wood posts black.

                A neighbor has this type of fence around a 2 acre organic produce farm.

                Some people here are putting deer fencing around small plots to see what native plants have disappeared from the landscape. Amazingly, many native plants that are no longer seen in the wild do come back. There must be seeds still coming from areas that the deer don't take the effort to get to.

                Hopefully, in 2 weeks we will be able to sit back and enjoy our rhododendrons as they try to grow back a leaf or 2. Who knows, we may even get a truss or two.

                In college we had a freezer locker and kept it full of venison. We lived on venison. I don't relish going back to those days. The best venison tastes just like beef. The worst doesn't. Brush fed venison doesn't. That is why they have books of recipes on how to kill the taste.

                Steve in Southeastern PA

                --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, "sjperk5" <sjperk5@...> wrote:
                >
                > My plan for deer control in the event we ever have this problem is pretty simple. The spring after the damage I will put out a call saying that every woody plant in the yard is available free to whoever wishes to dig them.
                >
                > My yard is simply not shaped right to justify fencing it.
                >
                > Take a way the food and there will be no deer.
                >
                > John Perkins
                > Salem, NH
              • michael.campbell3@comcast.net
                meat is meat Good a good recipe for deer salami or deer braughts and you re set. ... From: Steve Henning To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 29 , Apr 3, 2010
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                  meat is meat
                  Good a good recipe for deer salami or deer braughts and you're set.
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Steve Henning" <rhodyman@...>
                  To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, April 3, 2010 7:50:20 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
                  Subject: Re: [AZ] Deer Fence

                   

                  Hi John,

                  It is not only woody plants, it is annuals, perennials, and grass also. Deer only have biting teeth on their lower jaw, so they don't bite, they rip plants apart. I don't think anyone would want to take the effort to dig up our leafless twigs.

                  The fence man came out yesterday to give me an estimate. He uses an 8-foot hi-tensile black wire mesh fencing stretched between wood posts that are 24' apart except adjacent to corners and gates where they are typically 12' apart. We don't want the fence in front of our house, so we will run the fence from the sides of the house and then out around our 1.5 acre landscaped area. The 70' front of our house will be exposed. If necessary we can use netting or sprays there.

                  Along the short side in front we will use a split rail facade and on the long side paint the wood posts black.

                  A neighbor has this type of fence around a 2 acre organic produce farm.

                  Some people here are putting deer fencing around small plots to see what native plants have disappeared from the landscape. Amazingly, many native plants that are no longer seen in the wild do come back. There must be seeds still coming from areas that the deer don't take the effort to get to.

                  Hopefully, in 2 weeks we will be able to sit back and enjoy our rhododendrons as they try to grow back a leaf or 2. Who knows, we may even get a truss or two.

                  In college we had a freezer locker and kept it full of venison. We lived on venison. I don't relish going back to those days. The best venison tastes just like beef. The worst doesn't. Brush fed venison doesn't. That is why they have books of recipes on how to kill the taste.

                  Steve in Southeastern PA

                  --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, "sjperk5" <sjperk5@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > My plan for deer control in the event we ever have this problem is pretty simple. The spring after the damage I will put out a call saying that every woody plant in the yard is available free to whoever wishes to dig them.
                  >
                  > My yard is simply not shaped right to justify fencing it.
                  >
                  > Take a way the food and there will be no deer.
                  >
                  > John Perkins
                  > Salem, NH

                • sjperk5
                  Steve Put in simple terms if we had deer we would stop gardening and work at removing their food supply. Then I would see a lawyer and start a class action
                  Message 8 of 29 , Apr 3, 2010
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                    Steve

                    Put in simple terms if we had deer we would stop gardening and work at removing their food supply.

                    Then I would see a lawyer and start a class action suit against Disney.

                    John Perkins
                    Salem,NH

                    --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Henning" <rhodyman@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi John,
                    >
                    > It is not only woody plants, it is annuals, perennials, and grass also. Deer only have biting teeth on their lower jaw, so they don't bite, they rip plants apart. I don't think anyone would want to take the effort to dig up our leafless twigs.
                    >
                    > The fence man came out yesterday to give me an estimate. He uses an 8-foot hi-tensile black wire mesh fencing stretched between wood posts that are 24' apart except adjacent to corners and gates where they are typically 12' apart. We don't want the fence in front of our house, so we will run the fence from the sides of the house and then out around our 1.5 acre landscaped area. The 70' front of our house will be exposed. If necessary we can use netting or sprays there.
                    >
                    > Along the short side in front we will use a split rail facade and on the long side paint the wood posts black.
                    >
                    > A neighbor has this type of fence around a 2 acre organic produce farm.
                    >
                    > Some people here are putting deer fencing around small plots to see what native plants have disappeared from the landscape. Amazingly, many native plants that are no longer seen in the wild do come back. There must be seeds still coming from areas that the deer don't take the effort to get to.
                    >
                    > Hopefully, in 2 weeks we will be able to sit back and enjoy our rhododendrons as they try to grow back a leaf or 2. Who knows, we may even get a truss or two.
                    >
                    > In college we had a freezer locker and kept it full of venison. We lived on venison. I don't relish going back to those days. The best venison tastes just like beef. The worst doesn't. Brush fed venison doesn't. That is why they have books of recipes on how to kill the taste.
                    >
                    > Steve in Southeastern PA
                    >
                    > --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, "sjperk5" <sjperk5@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > My plan for deer control in the event we ever have this problem is pretty simple. The spring after the damage I will put out a call saying that every woody plant in the yard is available free to whoever wishes to dig them.
                    > >
                    > > My yard is simply not shaped right to justify fencing it.
                    > >
                    > > Take a way the food and there will be no deer.
                    > >
                    > > John Perkins
                    > > Salem, NH
                    >
                  • Jim Willhite
                    BAck at my old place, which was loaded w deer, I used fencing for my core collection, and protected the outliers w 2 dogs and archers. Here at my new place,
                    Message 9 of 29 , Apr 3, 2010
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                      BAck at my old place, which was loaded w deer, I used fencing for my
                      core collection, and protected the outliers w 2 dogs and archers. Here
                      at my new place, there is less pressure and I am able to control them
                      (but not completely eliminate their damage) using only Don Hyatt's
                      famous deer spray, which I think he should patent and sell for
                      $40/bottle, like those other gardens store elixirs.
                      jim willhite
                      west chester, pa


                      On Friday, April 2, 2010, at 08:05 PM, Mark R. Wright wrote:

                      >  
                      > Here in rural N Florida it's truly a crap shoot and depends on where
                      > the deer can find the most food. It's gotten to where it's nearly
                      > impossible to have a vegetable garden especially peas or beans. It's
                      > funny, when I was a kid growing up here and houses were far and few
                      > between it was fairly rare to see deer. Now they're everywhere and a
                      > danger to motorists especially at night. I raise Christmas trees and
                      > they do thousands of dollars in damage each year when the bucks rub
                      > their horns on the younger trees in the fall. I've found no solutions
                      > on a large scale, but maybe someone who's trying to protect a small
                      > area might use some of the alternatives to lead. I quite like the idea
                      > when in season and needing to fill the freezer.
                      > Happy Easter weekend to all,
                      > Mark Wright
                      > Temps in the mid 80's here in N Florida
                      >
                    • sjperk5
                      Steve I would be willing to fight the deer but I would not be willing to go to the effort of fighting our multiple levels of nanny state government to do so.
                      Message 10 of 29 , Apr 3, 2010
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                        Steve

                        I would be willing to fight the deer but I would not be willing to go to the effort of fighting our multiple levels of nanny state government to do so.

                        Being an Indiana farmboy at heart my position is animals that destroy your property have to be taken care of no questions asked.

                        You put up fences to keep your animals in not to keep other animals out.

                        John Perkins
                        Salem, NH

                        --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, "sjperk5" <sjperk5@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Steve
                        >
                        > Put in simple terms if we had deer we would stop gardening and work at removing their food supply.
                        >
                        > Then I would see a lawyer and start a class action suit against Disney.
                        >
                        > John Perkins
                        > Salem,NH
                        >
                        > --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Henning" <rhodyman@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hi John,
                        > >
                        > > It is not only woody plants, it is annuals, perennials, and grass also. Deer only have biting teeth on their lower jaw, so they don't bite, they rip plants apart. I don't think anyone would want to take the effort to dig up our leafless twigs.
                        > >
                        > > The fence man came out yesterday to give me an estimate. He uses an 8-foot hi-tensile black wire mesh fencing stretched between wood posts that are 24' apart except adjacent to corners and gates where they are typically 12' apart. We don't want the fence in front of our house, so we will run the fence from the sides of the house and then out around our 1.5 acre landscaped area. The 70' front of our house will be exposed. If necessary we can use netting or sprays there.
                        > >
                        > > Along the short side in front we will use a split rail facade and on the long side paint the wood posts black.
                        > >
                        > > A neighbor has this type of fence around a 2 acre organic produce farm.
                        > >
                        > > Some people here are putting deer fencing around small plots to see what native plants have disappeared from the landscape. Amazingly, many native plants that are no longer seen in the wild do come back. There must be seeds still coming from areas that the deer don't take the effort to get to.
                        > >
                        > > Hopefully, in 2 weeks we will be able to sit back and enjoy our rhododendrons as they try to grow back a leaf or 2. Who knows, we may even get a truss or two.
                        > >
                        > > In college we had a freezer locker and kept it full of venison. We lived on venison. I don't relish going back to those days. The best venison tastes just like beef. The worst doesn't. Brush fed venison doesn't. That is why they have books of recipes on how to kill the taste.
                        > >
                        > > Steve in Southeastern PA
                        > >
                        > > --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, "sjperk5" <sjperk5@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > My plan for deer control in the event we ever have this problem is pretty simple. The spring after the damage I will put out a call saying that every woody plant in the yard is available free to whoever wishes to dig them.
                        > > >
                        > > > My yard is simply not shaped right to justify fencing it.
                        > > >
                        > > > Take a way the food and there will be no deer.
                        > > >
                        > > > John Perkins
                        > > > Salem, NH
                        > >
                        >
                      • Larry Wallace
                        You put up fences to keep your animals in not to keep other animals out. John Perkins You obviously don t live in a free range state. It is just the
                        Message 11 of 29 , Apr 3, 2010
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                          "You put up fences to keep your animals in not to keep other animals out."

                          John Perkins

                          You obviously don't live in a 'free range' state.  It is just the opposite.

                          A few years ago Baby Bush, who does live in a free range state, ordered cattleman to remove their cattle from federal property.  It makes no sense.


                          --
                          Larry Wallace
                          Cincinnati
                        • sjperk5
                          Larry Point taken. Federal land is becoming to mean land that is owned by the government for the purpose of making certain it can be used by no one except the
                          Message 12 of 29 , Apr 3, 2010
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                            Larry

                            Point taken.

                            Federal land is becoming to mean land that is owned by the government for the purpose of making certain it can be used by no one except the elite for a photo op.

                            John Perkins
                            Salem, NH

                            --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, Larry Wallace <UUallace@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > "You put up fences to keep your animals in not to keep other animals out."
                            >
                            > John Perkins
                            >
                            > You obviously don't live in a 'free range' state. It is just the opposite.
                            >
                            > A few years ago Baby Bush, who does live in a free range state, ordered
                            > cattleman to remove their cattle from federal property. It makes no sense.
                            >
                            >
                            > --
                            > Larry Wallace
                            > Cincinnati
                            >
                          • George Klump
                            3 April 2010 I didn t really want to get into this discussion about deer fences. However, experience here has given at least one possible solution and the
                            Message 13 of 29 , Apr 3, 2010
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                              3 April 2010

                              I didn't really want to get into this discussion about deer fences.  However, experience here has given at least one possible solution and the forestry boys evidently back it up. 

                              Deer need some take-off room to jump any fence.  Many people here are losing azaleas, roses and anything deer love to eat, since we're all close to the mountains where the deer roam freely.  The only real solution which for most people is not really practical is to build two fences within, say, 8 feet of each other, e.g. concentric style.  If the distance between the two fences is 8 feet or less and the fences are equally high, the deer will not jump them.  Why?  Because according to some of the forestry boys who have apparently done this, the deer cannot jump over two fences spread apart like this.  They will land in between the two fences which traps them, since they cannot jump over two fences spread out in this manner and they do not have enough take-off room to make it over the second fence, if they did jump the first one.  Being trapped between two fences with no way out panics the be-junior out of deer, since their basic theme song is the old popular classic "Don't Fence Me In".  I suspect this works with any fence, chain-link, wood, log, etc.  It is in any event humane, so the government can do nothing about it.  Anyway, it was an idea which I got from the forestry boys.

                              George Klump
                              Southern California Chapter, ARS/ASA 








                              On 4/3/2010 12:23 PM, sjperk5 wrote:
                               

                              Steve

                              I would be willing to fight the deer but I would not be willing to go to the effort of fighting our multiple levels of nanny state government to do so.

                              Being an Indiana farmboy at heart my position is animals that destroy your property have to be taken care of no questions asked.

                              You put up fences to keep your animals in not to keep other animals out.

                              John Perkins
                              Salem, NH

                              --- In azaleas@yahoogroups .com, "sjperk5" <sjperk5@... > wrote:
                              >
                              > Steve
                              >
                              > Put in simple terms if we had deer we would stop gardening and work at removing their food supply.
                              >
                              > Then I would see a lawyer and start a class action suit against Disney.
                              >
                              > John Perkins
                              > Salem,NH
                              >
                              > --- In azaleas@yahoogroups .com, "Steve Henning" <rhodyman@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Hi John,
                              > >
                              > > It is not only woody plants, it is annuals, perennials, and grass also. Deer only have biting teeth on their lower jaw, so they don't bite, they rip plants apart. I don't think anyone would want to take the effort to dig up our leafless twigs.
                              > >
                              > > The fence man came out yesterday to give me an estimate. He uses an 8-foot hi-tensile black wire mesh fencing stretched between wood posts that are 24' apart except adjacent to corners and gates where they are typically 12' apart. We don't want the fence in front of our house, so we will run the fence from the sides of the house and then out around our 1.5 acre landscaped area. The 70' front of our house will be exposed. If necessary we can use netting or sprays there.
                              > >
                              > > Along the short side in front we will use a split rail facade and on the long side paint the wood posts black.
                              > >
                              > > A neighbor has this type of fence around a 2 acre organic produce farm.
                              > >
                              > > Some people here are putting deer fencing around small plots to see what native plants have disappeared from the landscape. Amazingly, many native plants that are no longer seen in the wild do come back. There must be seeds still coming from areas that the deer don't take the effort to get to.
                              > >
                              > > Hopefully, in 2 weeks we will be able to sit back and enjoy our rhododendrons as they try to grow back a leaf or 2. Who knows, we may even get a truss or two.
                              > >
                              > > In college we had a freezer locker and kept it full of venison. We lived on venison. I don't relish going back to those days. The best venison tastes just like beef. The worst doesn't. Brush fed venison doesn't. That is why they have books of recipes on how to kill the taste.
                              > >
                              > > Steve in Southeastern PA
                              > >
                              > > --- In azaleas@yahoogroups .com, "sjperk5" <sjperk5@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > My plan for deer control in the event we ever have this problem is pretty simple. The spring after the damage I will put out a call saying that every woody plant in the yard is available free to whoever wishes to dig them.
                              > > >
                              > > > My yard is simply not shaped right to justify fencing it.
                              > > >
                              > > > Take a way the food and there will be no deer.
                              > > >
                              > > > John Perkins
                              > > > Salem, NH
                              > >
                              >


                            • Steve Henning
                              We use a similar concept in the East with our white-tail deer, except the fences are closer together and the reason is not that they can t but that they won t.
                              Message 14 of 29 , Apr 3, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                We use a similar concept in the East with our white-tail deer, except the fences are closer together and the reason is not that they can't but that they won't. I have seem them jump a 6' fence effortlessly just standing next to the fence. They don't run, they just spring over like a standing high jump. But if they don't see a clear place to land, they won't try the jump. The most effective fences are slanted at a 45 degree angle up and out toward the deer. The deer don't do running broad jumps, just simple up and overs unless the are frightened. The lateral distance of the slant fences stops them cold.

                                I personally don't want a slant fence because I don't want to have to take care of the area under such a fence. Typically they use something like roundup or stronger.

                                White-tail deer will try to go under first. Jumping is their last resort. They are much better jumpers than they realize, fortunately. Most deer fences are black because deer won't jump a fence unless they can see the top. With the black fence it is much harder to see the top, especially at night when they do the most damage.

                                steve

                                --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, George Klump <mixturev@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > 3 April 2010
                                >
                                > I didn't really want to get into this discussion about deer fences.
                                > However, experience here has given at least one possible solution and
                                > the forestry boys evidently back it up.
                                >
                                > Deer need some take-off room to jump any fence. Many people here are
                                > losing azaleas, roses and anything deer love to eat, since we're all
                                > close to the mountains where the deer roam freely. The only real
                                > solution which for most people is not really practical is to build two
                                > fences within, say, 8 feet of each other, e.g. concentric style. If the
                                > distance between the two fences is 8 feet or less and the fences are
                                > equally high, the deer will not jump them. Why? Because according to
                                > some of the forestry boys who have apparently done this, the deer cannot
                                > jump over two fences spread apart like this. They will land in between
                                > the two fences which traps them, since they cannot jump over two fences
                                > spread out in this manner and they do not have enough take-off room to
                                > make it over the second fence, if they did jump the first one. Being
                                > trapped between two fences with no way out panics the be-junior out of
                                > deer, since their basic theme song is the old popular classic "Don't
                                > Fence Me In". I suspect this works with any fence, chain-link, wood,
                                > log, etc. It is in any event humane, so the government can do nothing
                                > about it. Anyway, it was an idea which I got from the forestry boys.
                                >
                                > George Klump
                                > Southern California Chapter, ARS/ASA
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > On 4/3/2010 12:23 PM, sjperk5 wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Steve
                                > >
                                > > I would be willing to fight the deer but I would not be willing to go
                                > > to the effort of fighting our multiple levels of nanny state
                                > > government to do so.
                                > >
                                > > Being an Indiana farmboy at heart my position is animals that destroy
                                > > your property have to be taken care of no questions asked.
                                > >
                                > > You put up fences to keep your animals in not to keep other animals out.
                                > >
                                > > John Perkins
                                > > Salem, NH
                                > >
                                > > --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                > > "sjperk5" <sjperk5@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Steve
                                > > >
                                > > > Put in simple terms if we had deer we would stop gardening and work
                                > > at removing their food supply.
                                > > >
                                > > > Then I would see a lawyer and start a class action suit against Disney.
                                > > >
                                > > > John Perkins
                                > > > Salem,NH
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                > > "Steve Henning" <rhodyman@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Hi John,
                                > > > >
                                > > > > It is not only woody plants, it is annuals, perennials, and grass
                                > > also. Deer only have biting teeth on their lower jaw, so they don't
                                > > bite, they rip plants apart. I don't think anyone would want to take
                                > > the effort to dig up our leafless twigs.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > The fence man came out yesterday to give me an estimate. He uses
                                > > an 8-foot hi-tensile black wire mesh fencing stretched between wood
                                > > posts that are 24' apart except adjacent to corners and gates where
                                > > they are typically 12' apart. We don't want the fence in front of our
                                > > house, so we will run the fence from the sides of the house and then
                                > > out around our 1.5 acre landscaped area. The 70' front of our house
                                > > will be exposed. If necessary we can use netting or sprays there.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Along the short side in front we will use a split rail facade and
                                > > on the long side paint the wood posts black.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > A neighbor has this type of fence around a 2 acre organic produce
                                > > farm.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Some people here are putting deer fencing around small plots to
                                > > see what native plants have disappeared from the landscape. Amazingly,
                                > > many native plants that are no longer seen in the wild do come back.
                                > > There must be seeds still coming from areas that the deer don't take
                                > > the effort to get to.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Hopefully, in 2 weeks we will be able to sit back and enjoy our
                                > > rhododendrons as they try to grow back a leaf or 2. Who knows, we may
                                > > even get a truss or two.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > In college we had a freezer locker and kept it full of venison. We
                                > > lived on venison. I don't relish going back to those days. The best
                                > > venison tastes just like beef. The worst doesn't. Brush fed venison
                                > > doesn't. That is why they have books of recipes on how to kill the taste.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Steve in Southeastern PA
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                > > "sjperk5" <sjperk5@> wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > My plan for deer control in the event we ever have this problem
                                > > is pretty simple. The spring after the damage I will put out a call
                                > > saying that every woody plant in the yard is available free to whoever
                                > > wishes to dig them.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > My yard is simply not shaped right to justify fencing it.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Take a way the food and there will be no deer.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > John Perkins
                                > > > > > Salem, NH
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • Whipple, Andy
                                This is an intriguing discussion as it suggests there may actually be a fairly simple way to deter deer from eating all our precious plants. Can anyone
                                Message 15 of 29 , Apr 4, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  This is an intriguing discussion as it suggests there may actually be a fairly simple way to deter deer from eating all our precious plants. Can anyone provide some actual experience beyond the previous emails? That is, how low can two fences be (and how far apart) to be effective? Does the outward slant reduce the necessary height? I'm seeking (as we all are!) the greatest effect for the least expenditure of time and money. My situation is out in the woods, with no grass to tend to, so the slant idea may be just fine if it's effective.

                                  Who has some actual experience beyond what Steve and George have reported?

                                  Thanks to all.

                                  Andy Whipple

                                  in Indiana but may be in the mountains in a bit.


                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: azaleas@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Steve Henning
                                  Sent: Sat 4/3/2010 10:50 PM
                                  To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [AZ] Deer Fence

                                  We use a similar concept in the East with our white-tail deer, except the fences are closer together and the reason is not that they can't but that they won't. I have seem them jump a 6' fence effortlessly just standing next to the fence. They don't run, they just spring over like a standing high jump. But if they don't see a clear place to land, they won't try the jump. The most effective fences are slanted at a 45 degree angle up and out toward the deer. The deer don't do running broad jumps, just simple up and overs unless the are frightened. The lateral distance of the slant fences stops them cold.

                                  I personally don't want a slant fence because I don't want to have to take care of the area under such a fence. Typically they use something like roundup or stronger.

                                  White-tail deer will try to go under first. Jumping is their last resort. They are much better jumpers than they realize, fortunately. Most deer fences are black because deer won't jump a fence unless they can see the top. With the black fence it is much harder to see the top, especially at night when they do the most damage.

                                  steve

                                  --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, George Klump <mixturev@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > 3 April 2010
                                  >
                                  > I didn't really want to get into this discussion about deer fences.
                                  > However, experience here has given at least one possible solution and
                                  > the forestry boys evidently back it up.
                                  >
                                  > Deer need some take-off room to jump any fence. Many people here are
                                  > losing azaleas, roses and anything deer love to eat, since we're all
                                  > close to the mountains where the deer roam freely. The only real
                                  > solution which for most people is not really practical is to build two
                                  > fences within, say, 8 feet of each other, e.g. concentric style. If the
                                  > distance between the two fences is 8 feet or less and the fences are
                                  > equally high, the deer will not jump them. Why? Because according to
                                  > some of the forestry boys who have apparently done this, the deer cannot
                                  > jump over two fences spread apart like this. They will land in between
                                  > the two fences which traps them, since they cannot jump over two fences
                                  > spread out in this manner and they do not have enough take-off room to
                                  > make it over the second fence, if they did jump the first one. Being
                                  > trapped between two fences with no way out panics the be-junior out of
                                  > deer, since their basic theme song is the old popular classic "Don't
                                  > Fence Me In". I suspect this works with any fence, chain-link, wood,
                                  > log, etc. It is in any event humane, so the government can do nothing
                                  > about it. Anyway, it was an idea which I got from the forestry boys.
                                  >
                                  > George Klump
                                  > Southern California Chapter, ARS/ASA
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On 4/3/2010 12:23 PM, sjperk5 wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Steve
                                  > >
                                  > > I would be willing to fight the deer but I would not be willing to go
                                  > > to the effort of fighting our multiple levels of nanny state
                                  > > government to do so.
                                  > >
                                  > > Being an Indiana farmboy at heart my position is animals that destroy
                                  > > your property have to be taken care of no questions asked.
                                  > >
                                  > > You put up fences to keep your animals in not to keep other animals out.
                                  > >
                                  > > John Perkins
                                  > > Salem, NH
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                  > > "sjperk5" <sjperk5@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Steve
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Put in simple terms if we had deer we would stop gardening and work
                                  > > at removing their food supply.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Then I would see a lawyer and start a class action suit against Disney.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > John Perkins
                                  > > > Salem,NH
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                  > > "Steve Henning" <rhodyman@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Hi John,
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > It is not only woody plants, it is annuals, perennials, and grass
                                  > > also. Deer only have biting teeth on their lower jaw, so they don't
                                  > > bite, they rip plants apart. I don't think anyone would want to take
                                  > > the effort to dig up our leafless twigs.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > The fence man came out yesterday to give me an estimate. He uses
                                  > > an 8-foot hi-tensile black wire mesh fencing stretched between wood
                                  > > posts that are 24' apart except adjacent to corners and gates where
                                  > > they are typically 12' apart. We don't want the fence in front of our
                                  > > house, so we will run the fence from the sides of the house and then
                                  > > out around our 1.5 acre landscaped area. The 70' front of our house
                                  > > will be exposed. If necessary we can use netting or sprays there.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Along the short side in front we will use a split rail facade and
                                  > > on the long side paint the wood posts black.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > A neighbor has this type of fence around a 2 acre organic produce
                                  > > farm.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Some people here are putting deer fencing around small plots to
                                  > > see what native plants have disappeared from the landscape. Amazingly,
                                  > > many native plants that are no longer seen in the wild do come back.
                                  > > There must be seeds still coming from areas that the deer don't take
                                  > > the effort to get to.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Hopefully, in 2 weeks we will be able to sit back and enjoy our
                                  > > rhododendrons as they try to grow back a leaf or 2. Who knows, we may
                                  > > even get a truss or two.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > In college we had a freezer locker and kept it full of venison. We
                                  > > lived on venison. I don't relish going back to those days. The best
                                  > > venison tastes just like beef. The worst doesn't. Brush fed venison
                                  > > doesn't. That is why they have books of recipes on how to kill the taste.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Steve in Southeastern PA
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                  > > "sjperk5" <sjperk5@> wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > My plan for deer control in the event we ever have this problem
                                  > > is pretty simple. The spring after the damage I will put out a call
                                  > > saying that every woody plant in the yard is available free to whoever
                                  > > wishes to dig them.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > My yard is simply not shaped right to justify fencing it.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Take a way the food and there will be no deer.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > John Perkins
                                  > > > > > Salem, NH
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • Barry Sperling
                                  My county (Fairfax, VA) limits fence heights to 6 ft. Could 2 6 fences, say 3 or 4 apart, be effective? Barry
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Apr 4, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    My county (Fairfax, VA) limits fence heights to 6 ft. Could 2 6' fences,
                                    say 3' or 4' apart, be effective?
                                    Barry

                                    Whipple, Andy wrote:
                                    >
                                    > This is an intriguing discussion as it suggests there may actually be
                                    > a fairly simple way to deter deer from eating all our precious plants.
                                    > Can anyone provide some actual experience beyond the previous emails?
                                    > That is, how low can two fences be (and how far apart) to be
                                    > effective? Does the outward slant reduce the necessary height? I'm
                                    > seeking (as we all are!) the greatest effect for the least expenditure
                                    > of time and money. My situation is out in the woods, with no grass to
                                    > tend to, so the slant idea may be just fine if it's effective.
                                    >
                                    > Who has some actual experience beyond what Steve and George have reported?
                                    >
                                    > Thanks to all.
                                    >
                                    > Andy Whipple
                                    >
                                    > in Indiana but may be in the mountains in a bit.
                                    >
                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com> on
                                    > behalf of Steve Henning
                                    > Sent: Sat 4/3/2010 10:50 PM
                                    > To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > Subject: Re: [AZ] Deer Fence
                                    >
                                    > We use a similar concept in the East with our white-tail deer, except
                                    > the fences are closer together and the reason is not that they can't
                                    > but that they won't. I have seem them jump a 6' fence effortlessly
                                    > just standing next to the fence. They don't run, they just spring over
                                    > like a standing high jump. But if they don't see a clear place to
                                    > land, they won't try the jump. The most effective fences are slanted
                                    > at a 45 degree angle up and out toward the deer. The deer don't do
                                    > running broad jumps, just simple up and overs unless the are
                                    > frightened. The lateral distance of the slant fences stops them cold.
                                    >
                                    > I personally don't want a slant fence because I don't want to have to
                                    > take care of the area under such a fence. Typically they use something
                                    > like roundup or stronger.
                                    >
                                    > White-tail deer will try to go under first. Jumping is their last
                                    > resort. They are much better jumpers than they realize, fortunately.
                                    > Most deer fences are black because deer won't jump a fence unless they
                                    > can see the top. With the black fence it is much harder to see the
                                    > top, especially at night when they do the most damage.
                                    >
                                    > steve
                                    >
                                    > --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                    > George Klump <mixturev@...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > 3 April 2010
                                    > >
                                    > > I didn't really want to get into this discussion about deer fences.
                                    > > However, experience here has given at least one possible solution and
                                    > > the forestry boys evidently back it up.
                                    > >
                                    > > Deer need some take-off room to jump any fence. Many people here are
                                    > > losing azaleas, roses and anything deer love to eat, since we're all
                                    > > close to the mountains where the deer roam freely. The only real
                                    > > solution which for most people is not really practical is to build two
                                    > > fences within, say, 8 feet of each other, e.g. concentric style. If the
                                    > > distance between the two fences is 8 feet or less and the fences are
                                    > > equally high, the deer will not jump them. Why? Because according to
                                    > > some of the forestry boys who have apparently done this, the deer
                                    > cannot
                                    > > jump over two fences spread apart like this. They will land in between
                                    > > the two fences which traps them, since they cannot jump over two fences
                                    > > spread out in this manner and they do not have enough take-off room to
                                    > > make it over the second fence, if they did jump the first one. Being
                                    > > trapped between two fences with no way out panics the be-junior out of
                                    > > deer, since their basic theme song is the old popular classic "Don't
                                    > > Fence Me In". I suspect this works with any fence, chain-link, wood,
                                    > > log, etc. It is in any event humane, so the government can do nothing
                                    > > about it. Anyway, it was an idea which I got from the forestry boys.
                                    > >
                                    > > George Klump
                                    > > Southern California Chapter, ARS/ASA
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > On 4/3/2010 12:23 PM, sjperk5 wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Steve
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I would be willing to fight the deer but I would not be willing to go
                                    > > > to the effort of fighting our multiple levels of nanny state
                                    > > > government to do so.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Being an Indiana farmboy at heart my position is animals that destroy
                                    > > > your property have to be taken care of no questions asked.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > You put up fences to keep your animals in not to keep other
                                    > animals out.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > John Perkins
                                    > > > Salem, NH
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                    > > > "sjperk5" <sjperk5@> wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Steve
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Put in simple terms if we had deer we would stop gardening and work
                                    > > > at removing their food supply.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Then I would see a lawyer and start a class action suit against
                                    > Disney.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > John Perkins
                                    > > > > Salem,NH
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                                    > <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                    > > > "Steve Henning" <rhodyman@> wrote:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Hi John,
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > It is not only woody plants, it is annuals, perennials, and grass
                                    > > > also. Deer only have biting teeth on their lower jaw, so they don't
                                    > > > bite, they rip plants apart. I don't think anyone would want to take
                                    > > > the effort to dig up our leafless twigs.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > The fence man came out yesterday to give me an estimate. He uses
                                    > > > an 8-foot hi-tensile black wire mesh fencing stretched between wood
                                    > > > posts that are 24' apart except adjacent to corners and gates where
                                    > > > they are typically 12' apart. We don't want the fence in front of our
                                    > > > house, so we will run the fence from the sides of the house and then
                                    > > > out around our 1.5 acre landscaped area. The 70' front of our house
                                    > > > will be exposed. If necessary we can use netting or sprays there.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Along the short side in front we will use a split rail facade and
                                    > > > on the long side paint the wood posts black.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > A neighbor has this type of fence around a 2 acre organic produce
                                    > > > farm.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Some people here are putting deer fencing around small plots to
                                    > > > see what native plants have disappeared from the landscape.
                                    > Amazingly,
                                    > > > many native plants that are no longer seen in the wild do come back.
                                    > > > There must be seeds still coming from areas that the deer don't take
                                    > > > the effort to get to.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Hopefully, in 2 weeks we will be able to sit back and enjoy our
                                    > > > rhododendrons as they try to grow back a leaf or 2. Who knows, we may
                                    > > > even get a truss or two.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > In college we had a freezer locker and kept it full of
                                    > venison. We
                                    > > > lived on venison. I don't relish going back to those days. The best
                                    > > > venison tastes just like beef. The worst doesn't. Brush fed venison
                                    > > > doesn't. That is why they have books of recipes on how to kill the
                                    > taste.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Steve in Southeastern PA
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                                    > <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                    > > > "sjperk5" <sjperk5@> wrote:
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > My plan for deer control in the event we ever have this problem
                                    > > > is pretty simple. The spring after the damage I will put out a call
                                    > > > saying that every woody plant in the yard is available free to
                                    > whoever
                                    > > > wishes to dig them.
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > My yard is simply not shaped right to justify fencing it.
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > Take a way the food and there will be no deer.
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > John Perkins
                                    > > > > > > Salem, NH
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • michael.campbell3@comcast.net
                                    The typical method is tall fence (8= ) but I ve seen fence that is 6 tall with another 4 slanted at a 45 degree angle. I ve seen deer do the standing jump
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Apr 4, 2010
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      The typical method is tall fence (8=') but I've seen fence that is 6' tall with another 4' slanted at a 45 degree angle.  I've seen deer do the standing jump before and the 2 fence does sound good. 
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "Andy Whipple" <anwhipple@...>
                                      To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Sunday, April 4, 2010 9:56:12 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
                                      Subject: RE: [AZ] Deer Fence

                                       

                                      This is an intriguing discussion as it suggests there may actually be a fairly simple way to deter deer from eating all our precious plants. Can anyone provide some actual experience beyond the previous emails? That is, how low can two fences be (and how far apart) to be effective? Does the outward slant reduce the necessary height? I'm seeking (as we all are!) the greatest effect for the least expenditure of time and money. My situation is out in the woods, with no grass to tend to, so the slant idea may be just fine if it's effective.

                                      Who has some actual experience beyond what Steve and George have reported?

                                      Thanks to all.

                                      Andy Whipple

                                      in Indiana but may be in the mountains in a bit.

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: azaleas@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Steve Henning
                                      Sent: Sat 4/3/2010 10:50 PM
                                      To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [AZ] Deer Fence

                                      We use a similar concept in the East with our white-tail deer, except the fences are closer together and the reason is not that they can't but that they won't. I have seem them jump a 6' fence effortlessly just standing next to the fence. They don't run, they just spring over like a standing high jump. But if they don't see a clear place to land, they won't try the jump. The most effective fences are slanted at a 45 degree angle up and out toward the deer. The deer don't do running broad jumps, just simple up and overs unless the are frightened. The lateral distance of the slant fences stops them cold.

                                      I personally don't want a slant fence because I don't want to have to take care of the area under such a fence. Typically they use something like roundup or stronger.

                                      White-tail deer will try to go under first. Jumping is their last resort. They are much better jumpers than they realize, fortunately. Most deer fences are black because deer won't jump a fence unless they can see the top. With the black fence it is much harder to see the top, especially at night when they do the most damage.

                                      steve

                                      --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, George Klump <mixturev@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > 3 April 2010
                                      >
                                      > I didn't really want to get into this discussion about deer fences.
                                      > However, experience here has given at least one possible solution and
                                      > the forestry boys evidently back it up.
                                      >
                                      > Deer need some take-off room to jump any fence. Many people here are
                                      > losing azaleas, roses and anything deer love to eat, since we're all
                                      > close to the mountains where the deer roam freely. The only real
                                      > solution which for most people is not really practical is to build two
                                      > fences within, say, 8 feet of each other, e.g. concentric style. If the
                                      > distance between the two fences is 8 feet or less and the fences are
                                      > equally high, the deer will not jump them. Why? Because according to
                                      > some of the forestry boys who have apparently done this, the deer cannot
                                      > jump over two fences spread apart like this. They will land in between
                                      > the two fences which traps them, since they cannot jump over two fences
                                      > spread out in this manner and they do not have enough take-off room to
                                      > make it over the second fence, if they did jump the first one. Being
                                      > trapped between two fences with no way out panics the be-junior out of
                                      > deer, since their basic theme song is the old popular classic "Don't
                                      > Fence Me In". I suspect this works with any fence, chain-link, wood,
                                      > log, etc. It is in any event humane, so the government can do nothing
                                      > about it. Anyway, it was an idea which I got from the forestry boys.
                                      >
                                      > George Klump
                                      > Southern California Chapter, ARS/ASA
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > On 4/3/2010 12:23 PM, sjperk5 wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Steve
                                      > >
                                      > > I would be willing to fight the deer but I would not be willing to go
                                      > > to the effort of fighting our multiple levels of nanny state
                                      > > government to do so.
                                      > >
                                      > > Being an Indiana farmboy at heart my position is animals that destroy
                                      > > your property have to be taken care of no questions asked.
                                      > >
                                      > > You put up fences to keep your animals in not to keep other animals out.
                                      > >
                                      > > John Perkins
                                      > > Salem, NH
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                      > > "sjperk5" <sjperk5@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Steve
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Put in simple terms if we had deer we would stop gardening and work
                                      > > at removing their food supply.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Then I would see a lawyer and start a class action suit against Disney.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > John Perkins
                                      > > > Salem,NH
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                      > > "Steve Henning" <rhodyman@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Hi John,
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > It is not only woody plants, it is annuals, perennials, and grass
                                      > > also. Deer only have biting teeth on their lower jaw, so they don't
                                      > > bite, they rip plants apart. I don't think anyone would want to take
                                      > > the effort to dig up our leafless twigs.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > The fence man came out yesterday to give me an estimate. He uses
                                      > > an 8-foot hi-tensile black wire mesh fencing stretched between wood
                                      > > posts that are 24' apart except adjacent to corners and gates where
                                      > > they are typically 12' apart. We don't want the fence in front of our
                                      > > house, so we will run the fence from the sides of the house and then
                                      > > out around our 1.5 acre landscaped area. The 70' front of our house
                                      > > will be exposed. If necessary we can use netting or sprays there.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Along the short side in front we will use a split rail facade and
                                      > > on the long side paint the wood posts black.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > A neighbor has this type of fence around a 2 acre organic produce
                                      > > farm.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Some people here are putting deer fencing around small plots to
                                      > > see what native plants have disappeared from the landscape. Amazingly,
                                      > > many native plants that are no longer seen in the wild do come back.
                                      > > There must be seeds still coming from areas that the deer don't take
                                      > > the effort to get to.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Hopefully, in 2 weeks we will be able to sit back and enjoy our
                                      > > rhododendrons as they try to grow back a leaf or 2. Who knows, we may
                                      > > even get a truss or two.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > In college we had a freezer locker and kept it full of venison. We
                                      > > lived on venison. I don't relish going back to those days. The best
                                      > > venison tastes just like beef. The worst doesn't. Brush fed venison
                                      > > doesn't. That is why they have books of recipes on how to kill the taste.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Steve in Southeastern PA
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                      > > "sjperk5" <sjperk5@> wrote:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > My plan for deer control in the event we ever have this problem
                                      > > is pretty simple. The spring after the damage I will put out a call
                                      > > saying that every woody plant in the yard is available free to whoever
                                      > > wishes to dig them.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > My yard is simply not shaped right to justify fencing it.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Take a way the food and there will be no deer.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > John Perkins
                                      > > > > > Salem, NH
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >

                                    • George Klump
                                      4 April 2010 You re right, Steve, about a deer being able to jump with little or no effort. However, we have the extra added attraction here of coyotes and
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Apr 4, 2010
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        4 April 2010

                                        You're right, Steve, about a deer being able to jump with little or no effort.  However, we have the extra added attraction here of coyotes and mountain lions.  The coyotes have a den down in the check dam across the street behind some homes.  They have regular parties there during the warm summer nights.  I witnessed 8 or 9 having a seance on the corner in front of our house one night about midnight.  A local dog mistook them for friends of his.  Deer tend to give them wide berth.  The neighborhood immediately northwest of us has signs posted in some areas of it where mountain lions have been seen around homes.  Deer won't come near that area unless they're sure no predators are around.  I've seen a buck jump nearly straight up the side of a granite outcropping here: it was absolutely amazing.  However, his leaps were on the order of 3' to 6' each.  Nevertheless!  :-P

                                        Most of the "deer" fences are at least 8' in height.  The concept of the two fences parallel close together is that the deer don't see the second fence, as you have noted and, if the fenced area is set up right, there is really no way out.  My father could not put up fences of this kind on the granite slab where his house was.  However, he did put heavy chicken wire around his roses and that was successful.  Two or three deer would come walking through just as if they owned the place.  They could look at the roses, but not eat them!

                                        George Klump
                                        Southern California Chapter, ARS/ASA






                                        On 4/3/2010 8:50 PM, Steve Henning wrote:
                                         

                                        We use a similar concept in the East with our white-tail deer, except the fences are closer together and the reason is not that they can't but that they won't. I have seem them jump a 6' fence effortlessly just standing next to the fence. They don't run, they just spring over like a standing high jump. But if they don't see a clear place to land, they won't try the jump. The most effective fences are slanted at a 45 degree angle up and out toward the deer. The deer don't do running broad jumps, just simple up and overs unless the are frightened. The lateral distance of the slant fences stops them cold.

                                        I personally don't want a slant fence because I don't want to have to take care of the area under such a fence. Typically they use something like roundup or stronger.

                                        White-tail deer will try to go under first. Jumping is their last resort. They are much better jumpers than they realize, fortunately. Most deer fences are black because deer won't jump a fence unless they can see the top. With the black fence it is much harder to see the top, especially at night when they do the most damage.

                                        steve

                                        --- In azaleas@yahoogroups .com, George Klump <mixturev@.. .> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > 3 April 2010
                                        >
                                        > I didn't really want to get into this discussion about deer fences.
                                        > However, experience here has given at least one possible solution and
                                        > the forestry boys evidently back it up.
                                        >
                                        > Deer need some take-off room to jump any fence. Many people here are
                                        > losing azaleas, roses and anything deer love to eat, since we're all
                                        > close to the mountains where the deer roam freely. The only real
                                        > solution which for most people is not really practical is to build two
                                        > fences within, say, 8 feet of each other, e.g. concentric style. If the
                                        > distance between the two fences is 8 feet or less and the fences are
                                        > equally high, the deer will not jump them. Why? Because according to
                                        > some of the forestry boys who have apparently done this, the deer cannot
                                        > jump over two fences spread apart like this. They will land in between
                                        > the two fences which traps them, since they cannot jump over two fences
                                        > spread out in this manner and they do not have enough take-off room to
                                        > make it over the second fence, if they did jump the first one. Being
                                        > trapped between two fences with no way out panics the be-junior out of
                                        > deer, since their basic theme song is the old popular classic "Don't
                                        > Fence Me In". I suspect this works with any fence, chain-link, wood,
                                        > log, etc. It is in any event humane, so the government can do nothing
                                        > about it. Anyway, it was an idea which I got from the forestry boys.
                                        >
                                        > George Klump
                                        > Southern California Chapter, ARS/ASA
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > On 4/3/2010 12:23 PM, sjperk5 wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Steve
                                        > >
                                        > > I would be willing to fight the deer but I would not be willing to go
                                        > > to the effort of fighting our multiple levels of nanny state
                                        > > government to do so.
                                        > >
                                        > > Being an Indiana farmboy at heart my position is animals that destroy
                                        > > your property have to be taken care of no questions asked.
                                        > >
                                        > > You put up fences to keep your animals in not to keep other animals out.
                                        > >
                                        > > John Perkins
                                        > > Salem, NH
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In azaleas@yahoogroups .com <mailto:azaleas% 40yahoogroups. com>,
                                        > > "sjperk5" <sjperk5@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Steve
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Put in simple terms if we had deer we would stop gardening and work
                                        > > at removing their food supply.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Then I would see a lawyer and start a class action suit against Disney.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > John Perkins
                                        > > > Salem,NH
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In azaleas@yahoogroups .com <mailto:azaleas% 40yahoogroups. com>,
                                        > > "Steve Henning" <rhodyman@> wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Hi John,
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > It is not only woody plants, it is annuals, perennials, and grass
                                        > > also. Deer only have biting teeth on their lower jaw, so they don't
                                        > > bite, they rip plants apart. I don't think anyone would want to take
                                        > > the effort to dig up our leafless twigs.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > The fence man came out yesterday to give me an estimate. He uses
                                        > > an 8-foot hi-tensile black wire mesh fencing stretched between wood
                                        > > posts that are 24' apart except adjacent to corners and gates where
                                        > > they are typically 12' apart. We don't want the fence in front of our
                                        > > house, so we will run the fence from the sides of the house and then
                                        > > out around our 1.5 acre landscaped area. The 70' front of our house
                                        > > will be exposed. If necessary we can use netting or sprays there.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Along the short side in front we will use a split rail facade and
                                        > > on the long side paint the wood posts black.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > A neighbor has this type of fence around a 2 acre organic produce
                                        > > farm.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Some people here are putting deer fencing around small plots to
                                        > > see what native plants have disappeared from the landscape. Amazingly,
                                        > > many native plants that are no longer seen in the wild do come back.
                                        > > There must be seeds still coming from areas that the deer don't take
                                        > > the effort to get to.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Hopefully, in 2 weeks we will be able to sit back and enjoy our
                                        > > rhododendrons as they try to grow back a leaf or 2. Who knows, we may
                                        > > even get a truss or two.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > In college we had a freezer locker and kept it full of venison. We
                                        > > lived on venison. I don't relish going back to those days. The best
                                        > > venison tastes just like beef. The worst doesn't. Brush fed venison
                                        > > doesn't. That is why they have books of recipes on how to kill the taste.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Steve in Southeastern PA
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > --- In azaleas@yahoogroups .com <mailto:azaleas% 40yahoogroups. com>,
                                        > > "sjperk5" <sjperk5@> wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > My plan for deer control in the event we ever have this problem
                                        > > is pretty simple. The spring after the damage I will put out a call
                                        > > saying that every woody plant in the yard is available free to whoever
                                        > > wishes to dig them.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > My yard is simply not shaped right to justify fencing it.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Take a way the food and there will be no deer.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > John Perkins
                                        > > > > > Salem, NH
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >


                                      • George Klump
                                        I would think so, Andy. But Steve has a good idea, too, about slanting the second fence. Why not slant the second fence at about 45 degrees? I would slant it
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Apr 4, 2010
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I would think so, Andy.  But Steve has a good idea, too, about slanting the second fence.  Why not slant the second fence at about 45 degrees?  I would slant it so that the top edge is at your 6-ft. limit and probably a few feet back from the vertical fence.  And, again, as Steve suggested, paint the fences black to confuse the deer, especially at night.  The only problem with all of this, as I suggested earlier, is that it takes some room to pull this off.  Not everyone wishes to spare that much property.  However, I would think, too, that sloping the second fence away from the first one may make it more confusing for the deer, since it would be a wider area and it would prevent the deer from seeing landing lights.  They do not like to jump blind in the dark!

                                          George Klump
                                          Southern California Chapter, ARS/ASA





                                          On 4/4/2010 9:41 AM, Barry Sperling wrote:
                                          My county (Fairfax, VA) limits fence heights to 6 ft. Could 2 6' fences, 
                                          say 3' or 4' apart, be effective?
                                          Barry
                                          
                                          Whipple, Andy wrote:
                                            
                                          This is an intriguing discussion as it suggests there may actually be 
                                          a fairly simple way to deter deer from eating all our precious plants. 
                                          Can anyone provide some actual experience beyond the previous emails? 
                                          That is, how low can two fences be (and how far apart) to be 
                                          effective? Does the outward slant reduce the necessary height? I'm 
                                          seeking (as we all are!) the greatest effect for the least expenditure 
                                          of time and money. My situation is out in the woods, with no grass to 
                                          tend to, so the slant idea may be just fine if it's effective.
                                          
                                          Who has some actual experience beyond what Steve and George have reported?
                                          
                                          Thanks to all.
                                          
                                          Andy Whipple
                                          
                                          in Indiana but may be in the mountains in a bit.
                                          
                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com> on 
                                          behalf of Steve Henning
                                          Sent: Sat 4/3/2010 10:50 PM
                                          To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>
                                          Subject: Re: [AZ] Deer Fence
                                          
                                          We use a similar concept in the East with our white-tail deer, except 
                                          the fences are closer together and the reason is not that they can't 
                                          but that they won't. I have seem them jump a 6' fence effortlessly 
                                          just standing next to the fence. They don't run, they just spring over 
                                          like a standing high jump. But if they don't see a clear place to 
                                          land, they won't try the jump. The most effective fences are slanted 
                                          at a 45 degree angle up and out toward the deer. The deer don't do 
                                          running broad jumps, just simple up and overs unless the are 
                                          frightened. The lateral distance of the slant fences stops them cold.
                                          
                                          I personally don't want a slant fence because I don't want to have to 
                                          take care of the area under such a fence. Typically they use something 
                                          like roundup or stronger.
                                          
                                          White-tail deer will try to go under first. Jumping is their last 
                                          resort. They are much better jumpers than they realize, fortunately. 
                                          Most deer fences are black because deer won't jump a fence unless they 
                                          can see the top. With the black fence it is much harder to see the 
                                          top, especially at night when they do the most damage.
                                          
                                          steve
                                          
                                          --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>, 
                                          George Klump <mixturev@...> wrote:
                                              
                                          3 April 2010
                                          
                                          I didn't really want to get into this discussion about deer fences.
                                          However, experience here has given at least one possible solution and
                                          the forestry boys evidently back it up.
                                          
                                          Deer need some take-off room to jump any fence. Many people here are
                                          losing azaleas, roses and anything deer love to eat, since we're all
                                          close to the mountains where the deer roam freely. The only real
                                          solution which for most people is not really practical is to build two
                                          fences within, say, 8 feet of each other, e.g. concentric style. If the
                                          distance between the two fences is 8 feet or less and the fences are
                                          equally high, the deer will not jump them. Why? Because according to
                                          some of the forestry boys who have apparently done this, the deer 
                                                
                                          cannot
                                              
                                          jump over two fences spread apart like this. They will land in between
                                          the two fences which traps them, since they cannot jump over two fences
                                          spread out in this manner and they do not have enough take-off room to
                                          make it over the second fence, if they did jump the first one. Being
                                          trapped between two fences with no way out panics the be-junior out of
                                          deer, since their basic theme song is the old popular classic "Don't
                                          Fence Me In". I suspect this works with any fence, chain-link, wood,
                                          log, etc. It is in any event humane, so the government can do nothing
                                          about it. Anyway, it was an idea which I got from the forestry boys.
                                          
                                          George Klump
                                          Southern California Chapter, ARS/ASA
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          On 4/3/2010 12:23 PM, sjperk5 wrote:
                                                
                                          Steve
                                          
                                          I would be willing to fight the deer but I would not be willing to go
                                          to the effort of fighting our multiple levels of nanny state
                                          government to do so.
                                          
                                          Being an Indiana farmboy at heart my position is animals that destroy
                                          your property have to be taken care of no questions asked.
                                          
                                          You put up fences to keep your animals in not to keep other 
                                                  
                                          animals out.
                                              
                                          John Perkins
                                          Salem, NH
                                          
                                          --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com> 
                                                  
                                          <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                              
                                          "sjperk5" <sjperk5@> wrote:
                                                  
                                          Steve
                                          
                                          Put in simple terms if we had deer we would stop gardening and work
                                                    
                                          at removing their food supply.
                                                  
                                          Then I would see a lawyer and start a class action suit against 
                                                    
                                          Disney.
                                              
                                          John Perkins
                                          Salem,NH
                                          
                                          --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com 
                                                    
                                          <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                              
                                          "Steve Henning" <rhodyman@> wrote:
                                                  
                                          Hi John,
                                          
                                          It is not only woody plants, it is annuals, perennials, and grass
                                                      
                                          also. Deer only have biting teeth on their lower jaw, so they don't
                                          bite, they rip plants apart. I don't think anyone would want to take
                                          the effort to dig up our leafless twigs.
                                                  
                                          The fence man came out yesterday to give me an estimate. He uses
                                                      
                                          an 8-foot hi-tensile black wire mesh fencing stretched between wood
                                          posts that are 24' apart except adjacent to corners and gates where
                                          they are typically 12' apart. We don't want the fence in front of our
                                          house, so we will run the fence from the sides of the house and then
                                          out around our 1.5 acre landscaped area. The 70' front of our house
                                          will be exposed. If necessary we can use netting or sprays there.
                                                  
                                          Along the short side in front we will use a split rail facade and
                                                      
                                          on the long side paint the wood posts black.
                                                  
                                          A neighbor has this type of fence around a 2 acre organic produce
                                                      
                                          farm.
                                                  
                                          Some people here are putting deer fencing around small plots to
                                                      
                                          see what native plants have disappeared from the landscape. 
                                                  
                                          Amazingly,
                                              
                                          many native plants that are no longer seen in the wild do come back.
                                          There must be seeds still coming from areas that the deer don't take
                                          the effort to get to.
                                                  
                                          Hopefully, in 2 weeks we will be able to sit back and enjoy our
                                                      
                                          rhododendrons as they try to grow back a leaf or 2. Who knows, we may
                                          even get a truss or two.
                                                  
                                          In college we had a freezer locker and kept it full of 
                                                      
                                          venison. We
                                              
                                          lived on venison. I don't relish going back to those days. The best
                                          venison tastes just like beef. The worst doesn't. Brush fed venison
                                          doesn't. That is why they have books of recipes on how to kill the 
                                                  
                                          taste.
                                              
                                          Steve in Southeastern PA
                                          
                                          --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com 
                                                      
                                          <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                              
                                          "sjperk5" <sjperk5@> wrote:
                                                  
                                          My plan for deer control in the event we ever have this problem
                                                        
                                          is pretty simple. The spring after the damage I will put out a call
                                          saying that every woody plant in the yard is available free to 
                                                  
                                          whoever
                                              
                                          wishes to dig them.
                                                  
                                          My yard is simply not shaped right to justify fencing it.
                                          
                                          Take a way the food and there will be no deer.
                                          
                                          John Perkins
                                          Salem, NH
                                                        
                                                      
                                                    
                                          
                                                  
                                                
                                          
                                              
                                          
                                          ------------------------------------
                                          
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                                        • Jim Willhite
                                          A single 6 fence was effective for me. jim willhite west chester, pa ... Jim Willhite West Chester, PA
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Apr 5, 2010
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            A single 6' fence was effective for me.
                                            jim willhite
                                            west chester, pa


                                            On Sunday, April 4, 2010, at 12:41 PM, Barry Sperling wrote:

                                            > My county (Fairfax, VA) limits fence heights to 6 ft. Could 2 6'
                                            > fences,
                                            > say 3' or 4' apart, be effective?
                                            > Barry
                                            >
                                            > Whipple, Andy wrote:
                                            >>
                                            >> This is an intriguing discussion as it suggests there may actually be
                                            >> a fairly simple way to deter deer from eating all our precious plants.
                                            >> Can anyone provide some actual experience beyond the previous emails?
                                            >> That is, how low can two fences be (and how far apart) to be
                                            >> effective? Does the outward slant reduce the necessary height? I'm
                                            >> seeking (as we all are!) the greatest effect for the least expenditure
                                            >> of time and money. My situation is out in the woods, with no grass to
                                            >> tend to, so the slant idea may be just fine if it's effective.
                                            >>
                                            >> Who has some actual experience beyond what Steve and George have
                                            >> reported?
                                            >>
                                            >> Thanks to all.
                                            >>
                                            >> Andy Whipple
                                            >>
                                            >> in Indiana but may be in the mountains in a bit.
                                            >>
                                            >> -----Original Message-----
                                            >> From: azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com> on
                                            >> behalf of Steve Henning
                                            >> Sent: Sat 4/3/2010 10:50 PM
                                            >> To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>
                                            >> Subject: Re: [AZ] Deer Fence
                                            >>
                                            >> We use a similar concept in the East with our white-tail deer, except
                                            >> the fences are closer together and the reason is not that they can't
                                            >> but that they won't. I have seem them jump a 6' fence effortlessly
                                            >> just standing next to the fence. They don't run, they just spring over
                                            >> like a standing high jump. But if they don't see a clear place to
                                            >> land, they won't try the jump. The most effective fences are slanted
                                            >> at a 45 degree angle up and out toward the deer. The deer don't do
                                            >> running broad jumps, just simple up and overs unless the are
                                            >> frightened. The lateral distance of the slant fences stops them cold.
                                            >>
                                            >> I personally don't want a slant fence because I don't want to have to
                                            >> take care of the area under such a fence. Typically they use something
                                            >> like roundup or stronger.
                                            >>
                                            >> White-tail deer will try to go under first. Jumping is their last
                                            >> resort. They are much better jumpers than they realize, fortunately.
                                            >> Most deer fences are black because deer won't jump a fence unless they
                                            >> can see the top. With the black fence it is much harder to see the
                                            >> top, especially at night when they do the most damage.
                                            >>
                                            >> steve
                                            >>
                                            >> --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                            >> George Klump <mixturev@...> wrote:
                                            >>>
                                            >>> 3 April 2010
                                            >>>
                                            >>> I didn't really want to get into this discussion about deer fences.
                                            >>> However, experience here has given at least one possible solution and
                                            >>> the forestry boys evidently back it up.
                                            >>>
                                            >>> Deer need some take-off room to jump any fence. Many people here are
                                            >>> losing azaleas, roses and anything deer love to eat, since we're all
                                            >>> close to the mountains where the deer roam freely. The only real
                                            >>> solution which for most people is not really practical is to build
                                            >>> two
                                            >>> fences within, say, 8 feet of each other, e.g. concentric style. If
                                            >>> the
                                            >>> distance between the two fences is 8 feet or less and the fences are
                                            >>> equally high, the deer will not jump them. Why? Because according to
                                            >>> some of the forestry boys who have apparently done this, the deer
                                            >> cannot
                                            >>> jump over two fences spread apart like this. They will land in
                                            >>> between
                                            >>> the two fences which traps them, since they cannot jump over two
                                            >>> fences
                                            >>> spread out in this manner and they do not have enough take-off room
                                            >>> to
                                            >>> make it over the second fence, if they did jump the first one. Being
                                            >>> trapped between two fences with no way out panics the be-junior out
                                            >>> of
                                            >>> deer, since their basic theme song is the old popular classic "Don't
                                            >>> Fence Me In". I suspect this works with any fence, chain-link, wood,
                                            >>> log, etc. It is in any event humane, so the government can do nothing
                                            >>> about it. Anyway, it was an idea which I got from the forestry boys.
                                            >>>
                                            >>> George Klump
                                            >>> Southern California Chapter, ARS/ASA
                                            >>>
                                            >>>
                                            >>>
                                            >>>
                                            >>>
                                            >>>
                                            >>>
                                            >>>
                                            >>> On 4/3/2010 12:23 PM, sjperk5 wrote:
                                            >>>>
                                            >>>> Steve
                                            >>>>
                                            >>>> I would be willing to fight the deer but I would not be willing to
                                            >>>> go
                                            >>>> to the effort of fighting our multiple levels of nanny state
                                            >>>> government to do so.
                                            >>>>
                                            >>>> Being an Indiana farmboy at heart my position is animals that
                                            >>>> destroy
                                            >>>> your property have to be taken care of no questions asked.
                                            >>>>
                                            >>>> You put up fences to keep your animals in not to keep other
                                            >> animals out.
                                            >>>>
                                            >>>> John Perkins
                                            >>>> Salem, NH
                                            >>>>
                                            >>>> --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>
                                            >> <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                            >>>> "sjperk5" <sjperk5@> wrote:
                                            >>>>>
                                            >>>>> Steve
                                            >>>>>
                                            >>>>> Put in simple terms if we had deer we would stop gardening and work
                                            >>>> at removing their food supply.
                                            >>>>>
                                            >>>>> Then I would see a lawyer and start a class action suit against
                                            >> Disney.
                                            >>>>>
                                            >>>>> John Perkins
                                            >>>>> Salem,NH
                                            >>>>>
                                            >>>>> --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                                            >> <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                            >>>> "Steve Henning" <rhodyman@> wrote:
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>> Hi John,
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>> It is not only woody plants, it is annuals, perennials, and grass
                                            >>>> also. Deer only have biting teeth on their lower jaw, so they don't
                                            >>>> bite, they rip plants apart. I don't think anyone would want to take
                                            >>>> the effort to dig up our leafless twigs.
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>> The fence man came out yesterday to give me an estimate. He uses
                                            >>>> an 8-foot hi-tensile black wire mesh fencing stretched between wood
                                            >>>> posts that are 24' apart except adjacent to corners and gates where
                                            >>>> they are typically 12' apart. We don't want the fence in front of
                                            >>>> our
                                            >>>> house, so we will run the fence from the sides of the house and then
                                            >>>> out around our 1.5 acre landscaped area. The 70' front of our house
                                            >>>> will be exposed. If necessary we can use netting or sprays there.
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>> Along the short side in front we will use a split rail facade and
                                            >>>> on the long side paint the wood posts black.
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>> A neighbor has this type of fence around a 2 acre organic produce
                                            >>>> farm.
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>> Some people here are putting deer fencing around small plots to
                                            >>>> see what native plants have disappeared from the landscape.
                                            >> Amazingly,
                                            >>>> many native plants that are no longer seen in the wild do come back.
                                            >>>> There must be seeds still coming from areas that the deer don't take
                                            >>>> the effort to get to.
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>> Hopefully, in 2 weeks we will be able to sit back and enjoy our
                                            >>>> rhododendrons as they try to grow back a leaf or 2. Who knows, we
                                            >>>> may
                                            >>>> even get a truss or two.
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>> In college we had a freezer locker and kept it full of
                                            >> venison. We
                                            >>>> lived on venison. I don't relish going back to those days. The best
                                            >>>> venison tastes just like beef. The worst doesn't. Brush fed venison
                                            >>>> doesn't. That is why they have books of recipes on how to kill the
                                            >> taste.
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>> Steve in Southeastern PA
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>> --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                                            >> <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                            >>>> "sjperk5" <sjperk5@> wrote:
                                            >>>>>>>
                                            >>>>>>> My plan for deer control in the event we ever have this problem
                                            >>>> is pretty simple. The spring after the damage I will put out a call
                                            >>>> saying that every woody plant in the yard is available free to
                                            >> whoever
                                            >>>> wishes to dig them.
                                            >>>>>>>
                                            >>>>>>> My yard is simply not shaped right to justify fencing it.
                                            >>>>>>>
                                            >>>>>>> Take a way the food and there will be no deer.
                                            >>>>>>>
                                            >>>>>>> John Perkins
                                            >>>>>>> Salem, NH
                                            >>>>>>
                                            >>>>>
                                            >>>>
                                            >>>>
                                            >>>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ------------------------------------
                                            >
                                            > When you reply to an email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s) only, as
                                            > context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo
                                            > lines. And PLEASE tell us your city, state and/or USDA zone.
                                            >
                                            > We welcome attached images RESIZED to be under 100KB in size - 640 x
                                            > 480 pixel JPEG images at 50% or 1:40 compression are ideal. By
                                            > attaching them you agree that, without giving up your rights to them,
                                            > they may be shown on Azalea Society websites.
                                            >
                                            > To unsubscribe, send an email to: azaleas-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                            >
                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            Jim Willhite
                                            West Chester, PA
                                          • Steve Henning
                                            Hi Jim, Unfortunately, lots of things are effective until the deer get hungry. First soap and hair were effective for me until the winter of 96. Then deer
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Apr 5, 2010
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Hi Jim,

                                              Unfortunately, lots of things are effective until the deer get hungry. First soap and hair were effective for me until the winter of '96. Then deer netting and a 5' fence were effective were effective for me until the winter of '10. Now I am looking for complete effectiveness with an 8' black steel deer fence.

                                              Steve

                                              --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, Jim Willhite <jwillhite@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > A single 6' fence was effective for me.
                                              > jim willhite
                                              > west chester, pa
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > On Sunday, April 4, 2010, at 12:41 PM, Barry Sperling wrote:
                                              >
                                              > > My county (Fairfax, VA) limits fence heights to 6 ft. Could 2 6'
                                              > > fences,
                                              > > say 3' or 4' apart, be effective?
                                              > > Barry
                                              > >
                                              > > Whipple, Andy wrote:
                                              > >>
                                              > >> This is an intriguing discussion as it suggests there may actually be
                                              > >> a fairly simple way to deter deer from eating all our precious plants.
                                              > >> Can anyone provide some actual experience beyond the previous emails?
                                              > >> That is, how low can two fences be (and how far apart) to be
                                              > >> effective? Does the outward slant reduce the necessary height? I'm
                                              > >> seeking (as we all are!) the greatest effect for the least expenditure
                                              > >> of time and money. My situation is out in the woods, with no grass to
                                              > >> tend to, so the slant idea may be just fine if it's effective.
                                              > >>
                                              > >> Who has some actual experience beyond what Steve and George have
                                              > >> reported?
                                              > >>
                                              > >> Thanks to all.
                                              > >>
                                              > >> Andy Whipple
                                              > >>
                                              > >> in Indiana but may be in the mountains in a bit.
                                              > >>
                                              > >> -----Original Message-----
                                              > >> From: azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com> on
                                              > >> behalf of Steve Henning
                                              > >> Sent: Sat 4/3/2010 10:50 PM
                                              > >> To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>
                                              > >> Subject: Re: [AZ] Deer Fence
                                              > >>
                                              > >> We use a similar concept in the East with our white-tail deer, except
                                              > >> the fences are closer together and the reason is not that they can't
                                              > >> but that they won't. I have seem them jump a 6' fence effortlessly
                                              > >> just standing next to the fence. They don't run, they just spring over
                                              > >> like a standing high jump. But if they don't see a clear place to
                                              > >> land, they won't try the jump. The most effective fences are slanted
                                              > >> at a 45 degree angle up and out toward the deer. The deer don't do
                                              > >> running broad jumps, just simple up and overs unless the are
                                              > >> frightened. The lateral distance of the slant fences stops them cold.
                                              > >>
                                              > >> I personally don't want a slant fence because I don't want to have to
                                              > >> take care of the area under such a fence. Typically they use something
                                              > >> like roundup or stronger.
                                              > >>
                                              > >> White-tail deer will try to go under first. Jumping is their last
                                              > >> resort. They are much better jumpers than they realize, fortunately.
                                              > >> Most deer fences are black because deer won't jump a fence unless they
                                              > >> can see the top. With the black fence it is much harder to see the
                                              > >> top, especially at night when they do the most damage.
                                              > >>
                                              > >> steve
                                              > >>
                                              > >> --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                              > >> George Klump <mixturev@> wrote:
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> 3 April 2010
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> I didn't really want to get into this discussion about deer fences.
                                              > >>> However, experience here has given at least one possible solution and
                                              > >>> the forestry boys evidently back it up.
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> Deer need some take-off room to jump any fence. Many people here are
                                              > >>> losing azaleas, roses and anything deer love to eat, since we're all
                                              > >>> close to the mountains where the deer roam freely. The only real
                                              > >>> solution which for most people is not really practical is to build
                                              > >>> two
                                              > >>> fences within, say, 8 feet of each other, e.g. concentric style. If
                                              > >>> the
                                              > >>> distance between the two fences is 8 feet or less and the fences are
                                              > >>> equally high, the deer will not jump them. Why? Because according to
                                              > >>> some of the forestry boys who have apparently done this, the deer
                                              > >> cannot
                                              > >>> jump over two fences spread apart like this. They will land in
                                              > >>> between
                                              > >>> the two fences which traps them, since they cannot jump over two
                                              > >>> fences
                                              > >>> spread out in this manner and they do not have enough take-off room
                                              > >>> to
                                              > >>> make it over the second fence, if they did jump the first one. Being
                                              > >>> trapped between two fences with no way out panics the be-junior out
                                              > >>> of
                                              > >>> deer, since their basic theme song is the old popular classic "Don't
                                              > >>> Fence Me In". I suspect this works with any fence, chain-link, wood,
                                              > >>> log, etc. It is in any event humane, so the government can do nothing
                                              > >>> about it. Anyway, it was an idea which I got from the forestry boys.
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> George Klump
                                              > >>> Southern California Chapter, ARS/ASA
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> On 4/3/2010 12:23 PM, sjperk5 wrote:
                                              > >>>>
                                              > >>>> Steve
                                              > >>>>
                                              > >>>> I would be willing to fight the deer but I would not be willing to
                                              > >>>> go
                                              > >>>> to the effort of fighting our multiple levels of nanny state
                                              > >>>> government to do so.
                                              > >>>>
                                              > >>>> Being an Indiana farmboy at heart my position is animals that
                                              > >>>> destroy
                                              > >>>> your property have to be taken care of no questions asked.
                                              > >>>>
                                              > >>>> You put up fences to keep your animals in not to keep other
                                              > >> animals out.
                                              > >>>>
                                              > >>>> John Perkins
                                              > >>>> Salem, NH
                                              > >>>>
                                              > >>>> --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>
                                              > >> <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                              > >>>> "sjperk5" <sjperk5@> wrote:
                                              > >>>>>
                                              > >>>>> Steve
                                              > >>>>>
                                              > >>>>> Put in simple terms if we had deer we would stop gardening and work
                                              > >>>> at removing their food supply.
                                              > >>>>>
                                              > >>>>> Then I would see a lawyer and start a class action suit against
                                              > >> Disney.
                                              > >>>>>
                                              > >>>>> John Perkins
                                              > >>>>> Salem,NH
                                              > >>>>>
                                              > >>>>> --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >> <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                              > >>>> "Steve Henning" <rhodyman@> wrote:
                                              > >>>>>>
                                              > >>>>>> Hi John,
                                              > >>>>>>
                                              > >>>>>> It is not only woody plants, it is annuals, perennials, and grass
                                              > >>>> also. Deer only have biting teeth on their lower jaw, so they don't
                                              > >>>> bite, they rip plants apart. I don't think anyone would want to take
                                              > >>>> the effort to dig up our leafless twigs.
                                              > >>>>>>
                                              > >>>>>> The fence man came out yesterday to give me an estimate. He uses
                                              > >>>> an 8-foot hi-tensile black wire mesh fencing stretched between wood
                                              > >>>> posts that are 24' apart except adjacent to corners and gates where
                                              > >>>> they are typically 12' apart. We don't want the fence in front of
                                              > >>>> our
                                              > >>>> house, so we will run the fence from the sides of the house and then
                                              > >>>> out around our 1.5 acre landscaped area. The 70' front of our house
                                              > >>>> will be exposed. If necessary we can use netting or sprays there.
                                              > >>>>>>
                                              > >>>>>> Along the short side in front we will use a split rail facade and
                                              > >>>> on the long side paint the wood posts black.
                                              > >>>>>>
                                              > >>>>>> A neighbor has this type of fence around a 2 acre organic produce
                                              > >>>> farm.
                                              > >>>>>>
                                              > >>>>>> Some people here are putting deer fencing around small plots to
                                              > >>>> see what native plants have disappeared from the landscape.
                                              > >> Amazingly,
                                              > >>>> many native plants that are no longer seen in the wild do come back.
                                              > >>>> There must be seeds still coming from areas that the deer don't take
                                              > >>>> the effort to get to.
                                              > >>>>>>
                                              > >>>>>> Hopefully, in 2 weeks we will be able to sit back and enjoy our
                                              > >>>> rhododendrons as they try to grow back a leaf or 2. Who knows, we
                                              > >>>> may
                                              > >>>> even get a truss or two.
                                              > >>>>>>
                                              > >>>>>> In college we had a freezer locker and kept it full of
                                              > >> venison. We
                                              > >>>> lived on venison. I don't relish going back to those days. The best
                                              > >>>> venison tastes just like beef. The worst doesn't. Brush fed venison
                                              > >>>> doesn't. That is why they have books of recipes on how to kill the
                                              > >> taste.
                                              > >>>>>>
                                              > >>>>>> Steve in Southeastern PA
                                              > >>>>>>
                                              > >>>>>> --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >> <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                              > >>>> "sjperk5" <sjperk5@> wrote:
                                              > >>>>>>>
                                              > >>>>>>> My plan for deer control in the event we ever have this problem
                                              > >>>> is pretty simple. The spring after the damage I will put out a call
                                              > >>>> saying that every woody plant in the yard is available free to
                                              > >> whoever
                                              > >>>> wishes to dig them.
                                              > >>>>>>>
                                              > >>>>>>> My yard is simply not shaped right to justify fencing it.
                                              > >>>>>>>
                                              > >>>>>>> Take a way the food and there will be no deer.
                                              > >>>>>>>
                                              > >>>>>>> John Perkins
                                              > >>>>>>> Salem, NH
                                              > >>>>>>
                                              > >>>>>
                                              > >>>>
                                              > >>>>
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>
                                              > >>
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > ------------------------------------
                                              > >
                                              > > When you reply to an email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s) only, as
                                              > > context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo
                                              > > lines. And PLEASE tell us your city, state and/or USDA zone.
                                              > >
                                              > > We welcome attached images RESIZED to be under 100KB in size - 640 x
                                              > > 480 pixel JPEG images at 50% or 1:40 compression are ideal. By
                                              > > attaching them you agree that, without giving up your rights to them,
                                              > > they may be shown on Azalea Society websites.
                                              > >
                                              > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: azaleas-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >
                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > Jim Willhite
                                              > West Chester, PA
                                              >
                                            • jtkarpen
                                              ... Hi Barry, In Montgomery Co., MD, there is an exception for deer fences - they can be up to 8 ft. Have you checked the local regulations? We just put
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Apr 5, 2010
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, Barry Sperling <barrysperling@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > My county (Fairfax, VA) limits fence heights to 6 ft. Could 2 6' fences,
                                                > say 3' or 4' apart, be effective?
                                                > Barry
                                                >
                                                <snip>

                                                Hi Barry,
                                                In Montgomery Co., MD, there is an exception for deer fences - they can be up to 8 ft. Have you checked the local regulations? We just put up such a fence around the back yard (which had a useless 3ft chain link fence around it), using thick bamboo canes from Freecycle and the heavier black netting from Home Depot. The bamboo is very unobtrusive and easy to work with; we strapped it to the existing fence posts. Obviously our property is alot smaller than many of those being discussed, but for smaller yards it is worth considering. Now if I could only keep the neighborhood dogs from pooping on the unfenced part of the yard <sigh>....

                                                regards, Judy
                                              • Steve Henning
                                                Hi Barry and Andy, Here is online documentation on the various scenarios mentioned: For the 55 high slant fence see:1)
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Apr 5, 2010
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Hi Barry and Andy,
                                                   
                                                  Here is online documentation on the various scenarios mentioned:

                                                  For the 55" high slant fence see:
                                                  1) http://www.gallagherusa.com/electric-fencing/types/deer_8WSlant.aspx 

                                                  2) http://anr.ext.wvu.edu/r/download/51663 

                                                  3) http://www.cnr.vt.edu/EXTENSION/FIW/wildlife/damage/deer_fencing.pdf 

                                                  4) http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/pdf/ec/ec1557.pdf 

                                                  5) http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/nreos/wild/pdf/wildlife/DEER.PDF 

                                                  For the two 5' fences 4' apart see:
                                                  page 4 of reference 4) above

                                                  page D-30 of reference 5) above
                                                  Steve Henning

                                                  --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, Barry Sperling <barrysperling@...> wrote:>> My county (Fairfax, VA) limits fence heights to 6 ft. Could 2 6' fences, > say 3' or 4' apart, be effective?> Barry> > Whipple, Andy wrote:> >> > This is an intriguing discussion as it suggests there may actually be > > a fairly simple way to deter deer from eating all our precious plants. > > Can anyone provide some actual experience beyond the previous emails? > > That is, how low can two fences be (and how far apart) to be > > effective? Does the outward slant reduce the necessary height? I'm > > seeking (as we all are!) the greatest effect for the least expenditure > > of time and money. My situation is out in the woods, with no grass to > > tend to, so the slant idea may be just fine if it's effective.> >> > Who has some actual experience beyond what Steve and George have reported?> >> > Thanks to all.> >> > Andy Whipple> >> > in Indiana but may be in the mountains in a bit.> >

                                                • Bob Stelloh
                                                  Steve nailed it. I had researched deer and wrote an article on deterrents many years ago for the Azalean, and it all revolved around deer pressure -- how
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Apr 5, 2010
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Steve nailed it. I had researched deer and wrote an article on
                                                    deterrents many years ago for the Azalean, and it all revolved around
                                                    "deer pressure" -- how many and how hungry. Almost anything works
                                                    for a few deer who are not very hungry, and almost nothing works for
                                                    a lot of very hungry deer.

                                                    Bob Stelloh Hendersonville NC USDA Zone 7


                                                    On Apr 5, 2010, at 9:41 AM, Steve Henning wrote:

                                                    > Hi Jim,
                                                    >
                                                    > Unfortunately, lots of things are effective until the deer get
                                                    > hungry. First soap and hair were effective for me until the winter
                                                    > of '96. Then deer netting and a 5' fence were effective were
                                                    > effective for me until the winter of '10. Now I am looking for
                                                    > complete effectiveness with an 8' black steel deer fence.
                                                    >
                                                    > Steve
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, Jim Willhite <jwillhite@...> wrote:
                                                    >>
                                                    >> A single 6' fence was effective for me.
                                                    >> jim willhite
                                                    >> west chester, pa
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >> On Sunday, April 4, 2010, at 12:41 PM, Barry Sperling wrote:
                                                    >>
                                                    >>> My county (Fairfax, VA) limits fence heights to 6 ft. Could 2 6'
                                                    >>> fences,
                                                    >>> say 3' or 4' apart, be effective?
                                                    >>> Barry
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>> Whipple, Andy wrote:
                                                    >>>>
                                                    >>>> This is an intriguing discussion as it suggests there may
                                                    >>>> actually be
                                                    >>>> a fairly simple way to deter deer from eating all our precious
                                                    >>>> plants.
                                                    >>>> Can anyone provide some actual experience beyond the previous
                                                    >>>> emails?
                                                    >>>> That is, how low can two fences be (and how far apart) to be
                                                    >>>> effective? Does the outward slant reduce the necessary height? I'm
                                                    >>>> seeking (as we all are!) the greatest effect for the least
                                                    >>>> expenditure
                                                    >>>> of time and money. My situation is out in the woods, with no
                                                    >>>> grass to
                                                    >>>> tend to, so the slant idea may be just fine if it's effective.
                                                    >>>>
                                                    >>>> Who has some actual experience beyond what Steve and George have
                                                    >>>> reported?
                                                    >>>>
                                                    >>>> Thanks to all.
                                                    >>>>
                                                    >>>> Andy Whipple
                                                    >>>>
                                                    >>>> in Indiana but may be in the mountains in a bit.
                                                    >>>>
                                                    >>>> -----Original Message-----
                                                    >>>> From: azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com> on
                                                    >>>> behalf of Steve Henning
                                                    >>>> Sent: Sat 4/3/2010 10:50 PM
                                                    >>>> To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                    >>>> Subject: Re: [AZ] Deer Fence
                                                    >>>>
                                                    >>>> We use a similar concept in the East with our white-tail deer,
                                                    >>>> except
                                                    >>>> the fences are closer together and the reason is not that they
                                                    >>>> can't
                                                    >>>> but that they won't. I have seem them jump a 6' fence effortlessly
                                                    >>>> just standing next to the fence. They don't run, they just
                                                    >>>> spring over
                                                    >>>> like a standing high jump. But if they don't see a clear place to
                                                    >>>> land, they won't try the jump. The most effective fences are
                                                    >>>> slanted
                                                    >>>> at a 45 degree angle up and out toward the deer. The deer don't do
                                                    >>>> running broad jumps, just simple up and overs unless the are
                                                    >>>> frightened. The lateral distance of the slant fences stops them
                                                    >>>> cold.
                                                    >>>>
                                                    >>>> I personally don't want a slant fence because I don't want to
                                                    >>>> have to
                                                    >>>> take care of the area under such a fence. Typically they use
                                                    >>>> something
                                                    >>>> like roundup or stronger.
                                                    >>>>
                                                    >>>> White-tail deer will try to go under first. Jumping is their last
                                                    >>>> resort. They are much better jumpers than they realize,
                                                    >>>> fortunately.
                                                    >>>> Most deer fences are black because deer won't jump a fence
                                                    >>>> unless they
                                                    >>>> can see the top. With the black fence it is much harder to see the
                                                    >>>> top, especially at night when they do the most damage.
                                                    >>>>
                                                    >>>> steve
                                                    >>>>
                                                    >>>> --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                                    >>>> George Klump <mixturev@> wrote:
                                                    >>>>>
                                                    >>>>> 3 April 2010
                                                    >>>>>
                                                    >>>>> I didn't really want to get into this discussion about deer
                                                    >>>>> fences.
                                                    >>>>> However, experience here has given at least one possible
                                                    >>>>> solution and
                                                    >>>>> the forestry boys evidently back it up.
                                                    >>>>>
                                                    >>>>> Deer need some take-off room to jump any fence. Many people
                                                    >>>>> here are
                                                    >>>>> losing azaleas, roses and anything deer love to eat, since
                                                    >>>>> we're all
                                                    >>>>> close to the mountains where the deer roam freely. The only real
                                                    >>>>> solution which for most people is not really practical is to build
                                                    >>>>> two
                                                    >>>>> fences within, say, 8 feet of each other, e.g. concentric
                                                    >>>>> style. If
                                                    >>>>> the
                                                    >>>>> distance between the two fences is 8 feet or less and the
                                                    >>>>> fences are
                                                    >>>>> equally high, the deer will not jump them. Why? Because
                                                    >>>>> according to
                                                    >>>>> some of the forestry boys who have apparently done this, the deer
                                                    >>>> cannot
                                                    >>>>> jump over two fences spread apart like this. They will land in
                                                    >>>>> between
                                                    >>>>> the two fences which traps them, since they cannot jump over two
                                                    >>>>> fences
                                                    >>>>> spread out in this manner and they do not have enough take-off
                                                    >>>>> room
                                                    >>>>> to
                                                    >>>>> make it over the second fence, if they did jump the first one.
                                                    >>>>> Being
                                                    >>>>> trapped between two fences with no way out panics the be-junior
                                                    >>>>> out
                                                    >>>>> of
                                                    >>>>> deer, since their basic theme song is the old popular classic
                                                    >>>>> "Don't
                                                    >>>>> Fence Me In". I suspect this works with any fence, chain-link,
                                                    >>>>> wood,
                                                    >>>>> log, etc. It is in any event humane, so the government can do
                                                    >>>>> nothing
                                                    >>>>> about it. Anyway, it was an idea which I got from the forestry
                                                    >>>>> boys.
                                                    >>>>>
                                                    >>>>> George Klump
                                                    >>>>> Southern California Chapter, ARS/ASA
                                                    >>>>>
                                                    >>>>>
                                                    >>>>>
                                                    >>>>>
                                                    >>>>>
                                                    >>>>>
                                                    >>>>>
                                                    >>>>>
                                                    >>>>> On 4/3/2010 12:23 PM, sjperk5 wrote:
                                                    >>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>> Steve
                                                    >>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>> I would be willing to fight the deer but I would not be
                                                    >>>>>> willing to
                                                    >>>>>> go
                                                    >>>>>> to the effort of fighting our multiple levels of nanny state
                                                    >>>>>> government to do so.
                                                    >>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>> Being an Indiana farmboy at heart my position is animals that
                                                    >>>>>> destroy
                                                    >>>>>> your property have to be taken care of no questions asked.
                                                    >>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>> You put up fences to keep your animals in not to keep other
                                                    >>>> animals out.
                                                    >>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>> John Perkins
                                                    >>>>>> Salem, NH
                                                    >>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>> --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                    >>>> <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                                    >>>>>> "sjperk5" <sjperk5@> wrote:
                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>> Steve
                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>> Put in simple terms if we had deer we would stop gardening
                                                    >>>>>>> and work
                                                    >>>>>> at removing their food supply.
                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>> Then I would see a lawyer and start a class action suit against
                                                    >>>> Disney.
                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>> John Perkins
                                                    >>>>>>> Salem,NH
                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>> --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                                                    >>>> <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:azaleas%
                                                    >>>> 40yahoogroups.com>,
                                                    >>>>>> "Steve Henning" <rhodyman@> wrote:
                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>>> Hi John,
                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>>> It is not only woody plants, it is annuals, perennials, and
                                                    >>>>>>>> grass
                                                    >>>>>> also. Deer only have biting teeth on their lower jaw, so they
                                                    >>>>>> don't
                                                    >>>>>> bite, they rip plants apart. I don't think anyone would want
                                                    >>>>>> to take
                                                    >>>>>> the effort to dig up our leafless twigs.
                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>>> The fence man came out yesterday to give me an estimate. He
                                                    >>>>>>>> uses
                                                    >>>>>> an 8-foot hi-tensile black wire mesh fencing stretched between
                                                    >>>>>> wood
                                                    >>>>>> posts that are 24' apart except adjacent to corners and gates
                                                    >>>>>> where
                                                    >>>>>> they are typically 12' apart. We don't want the fence in front of
                                                    >>>>>> our
                                                    >>>>>> house, so we will run the fence from the sides of the house
                                                    >>>>>> and then
                                                    >>>>>> out around our 1.5 acre landscaped area. The 70' front of our
                                                    >>>>>> house
                                                    >>>>>> will be exposed. If necessary we can use netting or sprays there.
                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>>> Along the short side in front we will use a split rail
                                                    >>>>>>>> facade and
                                                    >>>>>> on the long side paint the wood posts black.
                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>>> A neighbor has this type of fence around a 2 acre organic
                                                    >>>>>>>> produce
                                                    >>>>>> farm.
                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>>> Some people here are putting deer fencing around small plots to
                                                    >>>>>> see what native plants have disappeared from the landscape.
                                                    >>>> Amazingly,
                                                    >>>>>> many native plants that are no longer seen in the wild do come
                                                    >>>>>> back.
                                                    >>>>>> There must be seeds still coming from areas that the deer
                                                    >>>>>> don't take
                                                    >>>>>> the effort to get to.
                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>>> Hopefully, in 2 weeks we will be able to sit back and enjoy our
                                                    >>>>>> rhododendrons as they try to grow back a leaf or 2. Who knows, we
                                                    >>>>>> may
                                                    >>>>>> even get a truss or two.
                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>>> In college we had a freezer locker and kept it full of
                                                    >>>> venison. We
                                                    >>>>>> lived on venison. I don't relish going back to those days. The
                                                    >>>>>> best
                                                    >>>>>> venison tastes just like beef. The worst doesn't. Brush fed
                                                    >>>>>> venison
                                                    >>>>>> doesn't. That is why they have books of recipes on how to kill
                                                    >>>>>> the
                                                    >>>> taste.
                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>>> Steve in Southeastern PA
                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>>> --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                                                    >>>> <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:azaleas%
                                                    >>>> 40yahoogroups.com>,
                                                    >>>>>> "sjperk5" <sjperk5@> wrote:
                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>>>> My plan for deer control in the event we ever have this
                                                    >>>>>>>>> problem
                                                    >>>>>> is pretty simple. The spring after the damage I will put out a
                                                    >>>>>> call
                                                    >>>>>> saying that every woody plant in the yard is available free to
                                                    >>>> whoever
                                                    >>>>>> wishes to dig them.
                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>>>> My yard is simply not shaped right to justify fencing it.
                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>>>> Take a way the food and there will be no deer.
                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>>>> John Perkins
                                                    >>>>>>>>> Salem, NH
                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>>
                                                    >>>>>
                                                    >>>>
                                                    >>>>
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>> ------------------------------------
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>> When you reply to an email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s)
                                                    >>> only, as
                                                    >>> context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo
                                                    >>> lines. And PLEASE tell us your city, state and/or USDA zone.
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>> We welcome attached images RESIZED to be under 100KB in size - 640 x
                                                    >>> 480 pixel JPEG images at 50% or 1:40 compression are ideal. By
                                                    >>> attaching them you agree that, without giving up your rights to
                                                    >>> them,
                                                    >>> they may be shown on Azalea Society websites.
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>> To unsubscribe, send an email to: azaleas-
                                                    >>> unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>>
                                                    >> Jim Willhite
                                                    >> West Chester, PA
                                                    >>
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > ------------------------------------
                                                    >
                                                    > When you reply to an email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s) only,
                                                    > as context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the
                                                    > Yahoo lines. And PLEASE tell us your city, state and/or USDA zone.
                                                    >
                                                    > We welcome attached images RESIZED to be under 100KB in size - 640
                                                    > x 480 pixel JPEG images at 50% or 1:40 compression are ideal. By
                                                    > attaching them you agree that, without giving up your rights to
                                                    > them, they may be shown on Azalea Society websites.
                                                    >
                                                    > To unsubscribe, send an email to: azaleas-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                    >
                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                  • sjperk5
                                                    Bob Now late Joe Parks once stated the more information you have on the hardiness of rhododendrons the less you can conclude about the hardiness of
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Apr 5, 2010
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Bob

                                                      Now late Joe Parks once stated the more information you have on the hardiness of rhododendrons the less you can conclude about the hardiness of rhododendrons.

                                                      My guess is the same is true for deer controls such as fencing.

                                                      John Perkins
                                                      Salem, NH

                                                      --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, Bob Stelloh <bstelloh@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Steve nailed it. I had researched deer and wrote an article on
                                                      > deterrents many years ago for the Azalean, and it all revolved around
                                                      > "deer pressure" -- how many and how hungry. Almost anything works
                                                      > for a few deer who are not very hungry, and almost nothing works for
                                                      > a lot of very hungry deer.
                                                      >
                                                      > Bob Stelloh Hendersonville NC USDA Zone 7
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > On Apr 5, 2010, at 9:41 AM, Steve Henning wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > > Hi Jim,
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Unfortunately, lots of things are effective until the deer get
                                                      > > hungry. First soap and hair were effective for me until the winter
                                                      > > of '96. Then deer netting and a 5' fence were effective were
                                                      > > effective for me until the winter of '10. Now I am looking for
                                                      > > complete effectiveness with an 8' black steel deer fence.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Steve
                                                      > >
                                                      > > --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com, Jim Willhite <jwillhite@> wrote:
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >> A single 6' fence was effective for me.
                                                      > >> jim willhite
                                                      > >> west chester, pa
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >> On Sunday, April 4, 2010, at 12:41 PM, Barry Sperling wrote:
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >>> My county (Fairfax, VA) limits fence heights to 6 ft. Could 2 6'
                                                      > >>> fences,
                                                      > >>> say 3' or 4' apart, be effective?
                                                      > >>> Barry
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>> Whipple, Andy wrote:
                                                      > >>>>
                                                      > >>>> This is an intriguing discussion as it suggests there may
                                                      > >>>> actually be
                                                      > >>>> a fairly simple way to deter deer from eating all our precious
                                                      > >>>> plants.
                                                      > >>>> Can anyone provide some actual experience beyond the previous
                                                      > >>>> emails?
                                                      > >>>> That is, how low can two fences be (and how far apart) to be
                                                      > >>>> effective? Does the outward slant reduce the necessary height? I'm
                                                      > >>>> seeking (as we all are!) the greatest effect for the least
                                                      > >>>> expenditure
                                                      > >>>> of time and money. My situation is out in the woods, with no
                                                      > >>>> grass to
                                                      > >>>> tend to, so the slant idea may be just fine if it's effective.
                                                      > >>>>
                                                      > >>>> Who has some actual experience beyond what Steve and George have
                                                      > >>>> reported?
                                                      > >>>>
                                                      > >>>> Thanks to all.
                                                      > >>>>
                                                      > >>>> Andy Whipple
                                                      > >>>>
                                                      > >>>> in Indiana but may be in the mountains in a bit.
                                                      > >>>>
                                                      > >>>> -----Original Message-----
                                                      > >>>> From: azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com> on
                                                      > >>>> behalf of Steve Henning
                                                      > >>>> Sent: Sat 4/3/2010 10:50 PM
                                                      > >>>> To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                      > >>>> Subject: Re: [AZ] Deer Fence
                                                      > >>>>
                                                      > >>>> We use a similar concept in the East with our white-tail deer,
                                                      > >>>> except
                                                      > >>>> the fences are closer together and the reason is not that they
                                                      > >>>> can't
                                                      > >>>> but that they won't. I have seem them jump a 6' fence effortlessly
                                                      > >>>> just standing next to the fence. They don't run, they just
                                                      > >>>> spring over
                                                      > >>>> like a standing high jump. But if they don't see a clear place to
                                                      > >>>> land, they won't try the jump. The most effective fences are
                                                      > >>>> slanted
                                                      > >>>> at a 45 degree angle up and out toward the deer. The deer don't do
                                                      > >>>> running broad jumps, just simple up and overs unless the are
                                                      > >>>> frightened. The lateral distance of the slant fences stops them
                                                      > >>>> cold.
                                                      > >>>>
                                                      > >>>> I personally don't want a slant fence because I don't want to
                                                      > >>>> have to
                                                      > >>>> take care of the area under such a fence. Typically they use
                                                      > >>>> something
                                                      > >>>> like roundup or stronger.
                                                      > >>>>
                                                      > >>>> White-tail deer will try to go under first. Jumping is their last
                                                      > >>>> resort. They are much better jumpers than they realize,
                                                      > >>>> fortunately.
                                                      > >>>> Most deer fences are black because deer won't jump a fence
                                                      > >>>> unless they
                                                      > >>>> can see the top. With the black fence it is much harder to see the
                                                      > >>>> top, especially at night when they do the most damage.
                                                      > >>>>
                                                      > >>>> steve
                                                      > >>>>
                                                      > >>>> --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                                      > >>>> George Klump <mixturev@> wrote:
                                                      > >>>>>
                                                      > >>>>> 3 April 2010
                                                      > >>>>>
                                                      > >>>>> I didn't really want to get into this discussion about deer
                                                      > >>>>> fences.
                                                      > >>>>> However, experience here has given at least one possible
                                                      > >>>>> solution and
                                                      > >>>>> the forestry boys evidently back it up.
                                                      > >>>>>
                                                      > >>>>> Deer need some take-off room to jump any fence. Many people
                                                      > >>>>> here are
                                                      > >>>>> losing azaleas, roses and anything deer love to eat, since
                                                      > >>>>> we're all
                                                      > >>>>> close to the mountains where the deer roam freely. The only real
                                                      > >>>>> solution which for most people is not really practical is to build
                                                      > >>>>> two
                                                      > >>>>> fences within, say, 8 feet of each other, e.g. concentric
                                                      > >>>>> style. If
                                                      > >>>>> the
                                                      > >>>>> distance between the two fences is 8 feet or less and the
                                                      > >>>>> fences are
                                                      > >>>>> equally high, the deer will not jump them. Why? Because
                                                      > >>>>> according to
                                                      > >>>>> some of the forestry boys who have apparently done this, the deer
                                                      > >>>> cannot
                                                      > >>>>> jump over two fences spread apart like this. They will land in
                                                      > >>>>> between
                                                      > >>>>> the two fences which traps them, since they cannot jump over two
                                                      > >>>>> fences
                                                      > >>>>> spread out in this manner and they do not have enough take-off
                                                      > >>>>> room
                                                      > >>>>> to
                                                      > >>>>> make it over the second fence, if they did jump the first one.
                                                      > >>>>> Being
                                                      > >>>>> trapped between two fences with no way out panics the be-junior
                                                      > >>>>> out
                                                      > >>>>> of
                                                      > >>>>> deer, since their basic theme song is the old popular classic
                                                      > >>>>> "Don't
                                                      > >>>>> Fence Me In". I suspect this works with any fence, chain-link,
                                                      > >>>>> wood,
                                                      > >>>>> log, etc. It is in any event humane, so the government can do
                                                      > >>>>> nothing
                                                      > >>>>> about it. Anyway, it was an idea which I got from the forestry
                                                      > >>>>> boys.
                                                      > >>>>>
                                                      > >>>>> George Klump
                                                      > >>>>> Southern California Chapter, ARS/ASA
                                                      > >>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>
                                                      > >>>>> On 4/3/2010 12:23 PM, sjperk5 wrote:
                                                      > >>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>> Steve
                                                      > >>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>> I would be willing to fight the deer but I would not be
                                                      > >>>>>> willing to
                                                      > >>>>>> go
                                                      > >>>>>> to the effort of fighting our multiple levels of nanny state
                                                      > >>>>>> government to do so.
                                                      > >>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>> Being an Indiana farmboy at heart my position is animals that
                                                      > >>>>>> destroy
                                                      > >>>>>> your property have to be taken care of no questions asked.
                                                      > >>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>> You put up fences to keep your animals in not to keep other
                                                      > >>>> animals out.
                                                      > >>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>> John Perkins
                                                      > >>>>>> Salem, NH
                                                      > >>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>> --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                      > >>>> <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                                      > >>>>>> "sjperk5" <sjperk5@> wrote:
                                                      > >>>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>>> Steve
                                                      > >>>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>>> Put in simple terms if we had deer we would stop gardening
                                                      > >>>>>>> and work
                                                      > >>>>>> at removing their food supply.
                                                      > >>>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>>> Then I would see a lawyer and start a class action suit against
                                                      > >>>> Disney.
                                                      > >>>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>>> John Perkins
                                                      > >>>>>>> Salem,NH
                                                      > >>>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>>> --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > >>>> <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:azaleas%
                                                      > >>>> 40yahoogroups.com>,
                                                      > >>>>>> "Steve Henning" <rhodyman@> wrote:
                                                      > >>>>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>>>> Hi John,
                                                      > >>>>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>>>> It is not only woody plants, it is annuals, perennials, and
                                                      > >>>>>>>> grass
                                                      > >>>>>> also. Deer only have biting teeth on their lower jaw, so they
                                                      > >>>>>> don't
                                                      > >>>>>> bite, they rip plants apart. I don't think anyone would want
                                                      > >>>>>> to take
                                                      > >>>>>> the effort to dig up our leafless twigs.
                                                      > >>>>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>>>> The fence man came out yesterday to give me an estimate. He
                                                      > >>>>>>>> uses
                                                      > >>>>>> an 8-foot hi-tensile black wire mesh fencing stretched between
                                                      > >>>>>> wood
                                                      > >>>>>> posts that are 24' apart except adjacent to corners and gates
                                                      > >>>>>> where
                                                      > >>>>>> they are typically 12' apart. We don't want the fence in front of
                                                      > >>>>>> our
                                                      > >>>>>> house, so we will run the fence from the sides of the house
                                                      > >>>>>> and then
                                                      > >>>>>> out around our 1.5 acre landscaped area. The 70' front of our
                                                      > >>>>>> house
                                                      > >>>>>> will be exposed. If necessary we can use netting or sprays there.
                                                      > >>>>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>>>> Along the short side in front we will use a split rail
                                                      > >>>>>>>> facade and
                                                      > >>>>>> on the long side paint the wood posts black.
                                                      > >>>>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>>>> A neighbor has this type of fence around a 2 acre organic
                                                      > >>>>>>>> produce
                                                      > >>>>>> farm.
                                                      > >>>>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>>>> Some people here are putting deer fencing around small plots to
                                                      > >>>>>> see what native plants have disappeared from the landscape.
                                                      > >>>> Amazingly,
                                                      > >>>>>> many native plants that are no longer seen in the wild do come
                                                      > >>>>>> back.
                                                      > >>>>>> There must be seeds still coming from areas that the deer
                                                      > >>>>>> don't take
                                                      > >>>>>> the effort to get to.
                                                      > >>>>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>>>> Hopefully, in 2 weeks we will be able to sit back and enjoy our
                                                      > >>>>>> rhododendrons as they try to grow back a leaf or 2. Who knows, we
                                                      > >>>>>> may
                                                      > >>>>>> even get a truss or two.
                                                      > >>>>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>>>> In college we had a freezer locker and kept it full of
                                                      > >>>> venison. We
                                                      > >>>>>> lived on venison. I don't relish going back to those days. The
                                                      > >>>>>> best
                                                      > >>>>>> venison tastes just like beef. The worst doesn't. Brush fed
                                                      > >>>>>> venison
                                                      > >>>>>> doesn't. That is why they have books of recipes on how to kill
                                                      > >>>>>> the
                                                      > >>>> taste.
                                                      > >>>>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>>>> Steve in Southeastern PA
                                                      > >>>>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>>>> --- In azaleas@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > >>>> <mailto:azaleas%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:azaleas%
                                                      > >>>> 40yahoogroups.com>,
                                                      > >>>>>> "sjperk5" <sjperk5@> wrote:
                                                      > >>>>>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>>>>> My plan for deer control in the event we ever have this
                                                      > >>>>>>>>> problem
                                                      > >>>>>> is pretty simple. The spring after the damage I will put out a
                                                      > >>>>>> call
                                                      > >>>>>> saying that every woody plant in the yard is available free to
                                                      > >>>> whoever
                                                      > >>>>>> wishes to dig them.
                                                      > >>>>>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>>>>> My yard is simply not shaped right to justify fencing it.
                                                      > >>>>>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>>>>> Take a way the food and there will be no deer.
                                                      > >>>>>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>>>>> John Perkins
                                                      > >>>>>>>>> Salem, NH
                                                      > >>>>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>>
                                                      > >>>>>
                                                      > >>>>
                                                      > >>>>
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>>
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                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >>>
                                                      > >> Jim Willhite
                                                      > >> West Chester, PA
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
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