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flammeun / canescens

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  • sjperk5
    Has anyone on this forum visited the natural hybrids between flammeum and canesens that occur near Stone Mountain? Do you have images? How about visited the
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 18, 2009
      Has anyone on this forum visited the natural hybrids between flammeum and canesens that occur near Stone Mountain?

      Do you have images?

      How about visited the calendulaceum on Nantahala Mountains in Macon County North Carolina?

      John Perkins
      Salem, NH
    • Donald Hyatt
      John, Wayah Bald is in the center of Macon County in North Carolina and it is in the Nantahala National Forest. We go there almost every year. When you and
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 18, 2009
      John,
      Wayah Bald is in the center of Macon County in North Carolina and it is in the Nantahala National Forest.  We go there almost every year.  When you and Sally went with us in 2007, there must not have been much calendulaceum bloom on Wayah since I didn't see a single flame azalea picture but I did have a few photos of kalmia forms and arborescens, especially that yellow arborescens.  Incidentally, Tom Ranney checked the ploidy on one of the yellow arborescens plants from Wayah and it turned out diploid and not triploid as I had anticipated.  My thought that it was that those yellow arb plants were hybrids of arborescens and calendulaceum and thus sterile since they don't seem to set seed but apparently not.  Mother nature keeps her secrets well hidden!
       
      This past year was excellent for calendulcaeum bloom everywhere and I'll attach two images to show some of the variation... large flowers to small, and everything from light yellow to deep red.  We always wonder if there may be some cumberlandense and arborescens mixed up in those plants, too, but it is hard to tell without some ploidy tests.  In most cases, the calendulaceum had great seed set but not so much on cumberlandense, arborescens, or vaseyi. Heavy rains hit when they were in bloom.
       
      I'll attach two pictures from Wayah / Wine Spring Bald area in Macon County.  One shows the range of flower color in calendulaceum.  The other is a comparison of large flowered calendulaceum we refer to as "Mike's Find" with a rather standard form. Mike Stewart, past ARS President and 2009 Gold Medal recipient and his wife Maria went with us on our trek this past June. Mike is the one holding the flowers.  Mike spied that large flowered calendulaceum in an area we had not investigated before.  If you notice, "Mike's Find" has significant pink in the flower and the blossoms are larger than typical, measuring 2.5 to almost 3 inches across.  We wondered if it might be a natural hybrid of some kind with arborescens or cumberlandense which do grow nearby.  There was a large flowered pink arborescens type in that same area that Mike and John Brown found, too.  We were sure that was a natural arborescens-calendulaceum hybrid.  We went back to collect seed from those plants this fall but unfortunately, there was no seed on either one. 
       
      We also go to Hooper Bald which is in the Nantahala National Forest but in nearby Graham County.   I don't think we got there in 2007.  There is so much to see and so little time!  It has some excellent variations, and exceptionally large flowered forms of calendulaceum, one measuring 3.5 inches across.   I should mention that there is a joint project with the ARS, the Southern Highlands Reserve, and the U.S. Forest Service where we are trying to preserve some of that native azalea diversity.  Great project that was mentioned in a prior Azalean and there may be more articles coming out in there as well as the ARS Journal, too.
       
      We should have lots of calendulaceum seed from different populations and possibly from specific plants in both the ARS and ASA seed exchanges this year. Not much bud set for next year, though, so load up this season if you want seed from the eastern flame azlea populations collected in the wild.  Every year is different, so maybe we'll have better luck on vaseyi and other native azalea seed next year.
       
      Don Hyatt
      McLean, VA
       
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: sjperk5
      Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 10:33 AM
      Subject: [AZ] flammeun / canescens

       

      Has anyone on this forum visited the natural hybrids between flammeum and canesens that occur near Stone Mountain?

      Do you have images?

      How about visited the calendulaceum on Nantahala Mountains in Macon County North Carolina?

      John Perkins
      Salem, NH

    • SJPERK5
      Don, I did not get many images of calendulaceum from Wayah in 2007 but I was able to put together a collage of 9 different plants from there. Because of the
      Message 3 of 9 , Oct 18, 2009

      Don,

       

      I did not get many images of calendulaceum from Wayah in 2007 but I was able to put together a collage of 9 different plants from there. Because of the drought the best specimens were not in the exposed areas (i.e. the balds). Most were taken just walking along the road from Wine Spring. I just felt like I had to get a few shots of the plants along that road. That caused us to be a little behind you when we pulled off the road for the purple minus. ;-)

       

      Its snowing here.

       

       

      Sally Perkins


      From: azaleas@yahoogroups.com [mailto: azaleas@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Donald Hyatt
      Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 12:26 PM
      To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [AZ] flammeun / canescens [2 Attachments]

       

      [Attachment(s) from Donald Hyatt included below]


      John,

      Wayah Bald is in the center of Macon County in North Carolina and it is in the Nantahala National Forest .  We go there almost every year.  When you and Sally went with us in 2007, there must not have been much calendulaceum bloom on Wayah since I didn't see a single flame azalea picture but I did have a few photos of kalmia forms and arborescens, especially that yellow arborescens.  Incidentally, Tom Ranney checked the ploidy on one of the yellow arborescens plants from Wayah and it turned out diploid and not triploid as I had anticipated.  My thought that it was that those yellow arb plants were hybrids of arborescens and calendulaceum and thus sterile since they don't seem to set seed but apparently not.  Mother nature keeps her secrets well hidden!

       

      This past year was excellent for calendulcaeum bloom everywhere and I'll attach two images to show some of the variation... large flowers to small, and everything from light yellow to deep red.  We always wonder if there may be some cumberlandense and arborescens mixed up in those plants, too, but it is hard to tell without some ploidy tests.  In most cases, the calendulaceum had great seed set but not so much on cumberlandense, arborescens, or vaseyi. Heavy rains hit when they were in bloom.

       

      I'll attach two pictures from Wayah / Wine Spring Bald area in Macon County .  One shows the range of flower color in calendulaceum.  The other is a comparison of large flowered calendulaceum we refer to as "Mike's Find" with a rather standard form. Mike Stewart, past ARS President and 2009 Gold Medal recipient and his wife Maria went with us on our trek this past June. Mike is the one holding the flowers.  Mike spied that large flowered calendulaceum in an area we had not investigated before.  If you notice, "Mike's Find" has significant pink in the flower and the blossoms are larger than typical, measuring 2.5 to almost 3 inches across.  We wondered if it might be a natural hybrid of some kind with arborescens or cumberlandense which do grow nearby.  There was a large flowered pink arborescens type in that same area that Mike and John Brown found, too.  We were sure that was a natural arborescens-calendulaceum hybrid.  We went back to collect seed from those plants this fall but unfortunately, there was no seed on either one. 

       

      We also go to Hooper Bald which is in the Nantahala National Forest but in nearby Graham County .   I don't think we got there in 2007.  There is so much to see and so little time!  It has some excellent variations, and exceptionally large flowered forms of calendulaceum, one measuring 3.5 inches across.   I should mention that there is a joint project with the ARS, the Southern Highlands Reserve, and the U.S. Forest Service where we are trying to preserve some of that native azalea diversity.  Great project that was mentioned in a prior Azalean and there may be more articles coming out in there as well as the ARS Journal, too.

       

      We should have lots of calendulaceum seed from different populations and possibly from specific plants in both the ARS and ASA seed exchanges this year. Not much bud set for next year, though, so load up this season if you want seed from the eastern flame azlea populations collected in the wild.  Every year is different, so maybe we'll have better luck on vaseyi and other native azalea seed next year.

       

      Don Hyatt

      McLean , VA

       

      ----- Original Message ----- 

      From: sjperk5

      Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 10:33 AM

      Subject: [AZ] flammeun / canescens

       

       

      Has anyone on this forum visited the natural hybrids between flammeum and canesens that occur near Stone Mountain ?

      Do you have images?

      How about visited the calendulaceum on Nantahala Mountains in Macon County North Carolina?

      John Perkins
      Salem , NH

       

    • SJPERK5
      _____ And this is what you get when you throw in prinophyllum and a maybe a little japonicum, into the calendulaceum/cumberlandense/arborescens complex in a
      Message 4 of 9 , Oct 18, 2009

      And this is what you get when you throw in prinophyllum and a maybe a little japonicum, into the calendulaceum/cumberlandense/arborescens complex in a hybridizers’ garden in Vermont.

       

      Sally Perkins

      PS The original image is 3 MB.

       

    • Mtnroseranch@aol.com
      Hi Sally wow that is a beautiful swarm. were you able to get any cuttings from Margaret Abbott last year ? I do believe I know where at least one plant is
      Message 5 of 9 , Oct 19, 2009
        Hi Sally
         
             wow that is a beautiful swarm. were you able to get any cuttings from Margaret Abbott last year ? I do believe  I know where at least one plant is located.  Dr. John Abbott



        -----Original Message-----
        From: SJPERK5 <sjperk5@...>
        To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sun, Oct 18, 2009 1:33 pm
        Subject: [AZ] Frank Abbott swarm [1 Attachment]

         
        [Attachment(s) from SJPERK5 included below]


        And this is what you get when you throw in prinophyllum and a maybe a little japonicum, into the calendulaceum/ cumberlandense/ arborescens complex in a hybridizers’ garden in Vermont.
         
        Sally Perkins
        PS The original image is 3 MB.
         
      • SJPERK5
        The real Margaret Abbott..so very special. _____ From: azaleas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:azaleas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mtnroseranch@aol.com Sent: Monday,
        Message 6 of 9 , Oct 20, 2009

        The real Margaret Abbott….so very special.

         


        From: azaleas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:azaleas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mtnroseranch@...
        Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 12:14 PM
        To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [AZ] Frank Abbott swarm [1 Attachment

         




        Hi Sally

         

             wow that is a beautiful swarm. were you able to get any cuttings from Margaret Abbott last year ? I do believe  I know where at least one plant is located.  Dr. John Abbott




        -----Original Message-----
        From: SJPERK5 <sjperk5@...>
        To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sun, Oct 18, 2009 1:33 pm
        Subject: [AZ] Frank Abbott swarm [1 Attachment]

         

        [Attachment(s) from SJPERK5 included below]


        And this is what you get when you throw in prinophyllum and a maybe a little japonicum, into the calendulaceum/ cumberlandense/ arborescens complex in a hybridizers’ garden in Vermont .

         

        Sally Perkins

        PS The original image is 3 MB.

         


      • SJPERK5
        This image comes from the Beaudry s garden as you can see the flower is white, occasionally with sectors, occasionally throwing all purple and not on this
        Message 7 of 9 , Oct 26, 2009

        This image comes from the Beaudry’s garden as you can see the flower is white, occasionally with sectors, occasionally throwing all purple and not on this image but occasionally a pale pink having a red spotted flare. This was taken 10/27/07.

         

        Thank you Jean and Norm

         

        Sally Perkins

         


         

      • Mike Creel
        Sally, is the purple/lavendar flower shown below the white one, the other form? If you root the variant colors, does that stabilize that color or is August
        Message 8 of 9 , Oct 27, 2009
          Sally, is the purple/lavendar flower shown below the white one, the other form? If you root the variant colors, does that stabilize that color or is August to Frost always variable..  It is beautiful in full flower in October.
           
          Mike Creel, SC USDA Zone 8a
          Lexington County, South Carolina



          From: SJPERK5 <sjperk5@...>
          To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Mon, October 26, 2009 9:19:46 PM
          Subject: [AZ] August to frost [1 Attachment]

           

          This image comes from the Beaudry’s garden as you can see the flower is white, occasionally with sectors, occasionally throwing all purple and not on this image but occasionally a pale pink having a red spotted flare. This was taken 10/27/07.

           

          Thank you Jean and Norm

           

          Sally Perkins

           

          When you reply to an email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s) only, as context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo lines.  And PLEASE tell us your city, state and/or USDA zone.

          We welcome attached images RESIZED to be under 100KB in size - 640 x 480 pixel JPEG images at 50% or 1:40 compression are ideal. By attaching them you agree that, without giving up your rights to them, they may be shown on Azalea Society websites.

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          • SJPERK5
            The same plant in the Boudrey s garden has the purple flowers, pure white, sectored purple and the pale pink with the red flecked flare. Its fairly typical of
            Message 9 of 9 , Oct 27, 2009

              The same plant in the Boudrey’s garden has the purple flowers, pure white, sectored purple and the pale pink with the red flecked flare. Its fairly typical of a lot of evergreen azaleas that are not hardy in Salem , NH .

              Sally Perkins

               


              From: azaleas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:azaleas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Creel
              Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:23 AM
              To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [AZ] August to frost

               




              Sally, is the purple/lavendar flower shown below the white one, the other form? If you root the variant colors, does that stabilize that color or is August to Frost always variable..  It is beautiful in full flower in October.
               

              Mike Creel, SC USDA Zone 8a
              Lexington County , South Carolina

               

               


              From: SJPERK5 <sjperk5@...>
              To: azaleas@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Mon, October 26, 2009 9:19:46 PM
              Subject: [AZ] August to frost [1 Attachment]

               

              This image comes from the Beaudry’s garden as you can see the flower is white, occasionally with sectors, occasionally throwing all purple and not on this image but occasionally a pale pink having a red spotted flare. This was taken 10/27/07.

               

              Thank you Jean and Norm

               

              Sally Perkins

               

              When you reply to an email, PLEASE quote its relevant part(s) only, as context, and DELETE the rest - especially this line and the Yahoo lines.  And PLEASE tell us your city, state and/or USDA zone.

              We welcome attached images RESIZED to be under 100KB in size - 640 x 480 pixel JPEG images at 50% or 1:40 compression are ideal. By attaching them you agree that, without giving up your rights to them, they may be shown on Azalea Society websites.

              To unsubscribe, send an email to: azaleas-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

              Recent Activity

              Visit Your Group

              Give Back

              Yahoo! for Good

              Get inspired

              by a good cause.

              Y! Toolbar

              Get it Free!

              easy 1-click access

              to your groups.

              Yahoo! Groups

              Start a group

              in 3 easy steps.

              Connect with others.

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