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Re: Hi guys..

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  • mgrogg51
    It could be done, but it would be complex, and prone to inefficiency or failure. Depending on how many phases your try to run, you would need a slip ring
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 1, 2008
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      It 'could' be done, but it would be complex, and prone to
      inefficiency or failure. Depending on how many phases your try to
      run, you would need a slip ring and brush set for each phase. 3
      phase would be complex, 5 or 7 phase could be absurd.

      As a consolation, the extra mass of the accepted set up with
      rotating magnets acts as a flywheel and helps smooth out the
      rotation.

      A few days ago some members were discussing whether contra-rotating
      blade sets could be managed, with one blade driving the magnets, and
      the second driving the coils. Similar problem.

      Another couple of things to consider with the contra-rotating props
      would be 1) You will need to space the two blade sets quite a
      distance apart in order to not have potential blade strikes. In a
      gusty or variable wind direction situation, the yawing of the wind
      turbine will cause the two blade sets to flex in opposite
      directions, so that a blade strike could (if not properly spaced)
      occur. The extra long shafts required would require much stiffer
      and heavier shafts, which increase the cost, the wieght, the cost of
      the tower etc.etc.

      ( Look up gyroscopic procession, it will explain it better than I
      can here, but basically a force applied to a rotating object will
      cause the plane of rotation to move at a location 90 degrees away
      from the location where the force is applied. This how helicopter
      rotor systems are controlled).

      2) The downwind blade system will likely need to be about 15%
      larger diameter than the upwind blade system, since the upwind
      system will take away some of the energy, and also disrupt the
      airflow (turbulence) to the down wind system. This would have the
      advantage of having the blade tips of the two systems far enough
      apart so they do not cause aerodynamic problems if the blade tips
      approach or exceed the speed of sound.

      Since the tower cost of many systems exceeds the cost of the wind
      turbine/generator set, a contra set up might make sense if you have
      space for only one tower, but the extra cost of the dual set up plus
      increased maintenence costs might or might not be made up by the
      additional energy harvested.

      The whole idea of the Axial Flux generator is to be simple and low
      cost, I don't see the need to overly complicate a simple system.

      My .02, all standard disclaimers apply.

      Michael Grogg





      --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "mart85" <halemart@...> wrote:
      >
      > I am trying to build a generator, and I have downloaded the files
      that
      > you have for a windmill design here and I see the sandwich of the
      coil
      > between two sets of opposite magnets.
      >
      > I had an idea, but not sure if anyone had tried it, has anyone
      tried
      > to rotate the coil instead of rotating the magnets? It seems to
      me
      > that there would be less force needed to turn only the coil verses
      > turning both sets of magnets.
      >
      > Thanks for you input.
      >
      > Mart.
      >
      >
      > To get an idea of my application you may visit my video :->
      >
      > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxu1vP_l_7c
      >
      > thanks again.
      >
    • Mart Hale
      Ok, If you look at my video, I am not building a windmill, but rather something simpler. I will use multiple phases, and I will put the bridge rectifiers
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 1, 2008
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        Ok,

         

        If you look at my video, I am not building a windmill, but rather something simpler.

         

        I will use multiple phases, and I will put the bridge rectifiers inside the PVC and then I will use each hard drive bearing on each side to output the current.  ( I tested putting current thru the bearings and it worked for me.

         

        I am thinking one could do the same with your windmill as you could put the bridge rectifiers inside the resin and then have two outputs.  In your case, it may be more difficult, but I think it will work for me.

         

        Thanks for your input.

         

        Mart

         


        From: axialflux@yahoogroups.com [mailto:axialflux@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mgrogg51
        Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 10:26 AM
        To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [axialflux] Re: Hi guys..

         

        It 'could' be done, but it would be complex, and prone to
        inefficiency or failure. Depending on how many phases your try to
        run, you would need a slip ring and brush set for each phase. 3
        phase would be complex, 5 or 7 phase could be absurd.

        As a consolation, the extra mass of the accepted set up with
        rotating magnets acts as a flywheel and helps smooth out the
        rotation.

        A few days ago some members were discussing whether contra-rotating
        blade sets could be managed, with one blade driving the magnets, and
        the second driving the coils. Similar problem.

        Another couple of things to consider with the contra-rotating props
        would be 1) You will need to space the two blade sets quite a
        distance apart in order to not have potential blade strikes. In a
        gusty or variable wind direction situation, the yawing of the wind
        turbine will cause the two blade sets to flex in opposite
        directions, so that a blade strike could (if not properly spaced)
        occur. The extra long shafts required would require much stiffer
        and heavier shafts, which increase the cost, the wieght, the cost of
        the tower etc.etc.

        ( Look up gyroscopic procession, it will explain it better than I
        can here, but basically a force applied to a rotating object will
        cause the plane of rotation to move at a location 90 degrees away
        from the location where the force is applied. This how helicopter
        rotor systems are controlled).

        2) The downwind blade system will likely need to be about 15%
        larger diameter than the upwind blade system, since the upwind
        system will take away some of the energy, and also disrupt the
        airflow (turbulence) to the down wind system. This would have the
        advantage of having the blade tips of the two systems far enough
        apart so they do not cause aerodynamic problems if the blade tips
        approach or exceed the speed of sound.

        Since the tower cost of many systems exceeds the cost of the wind
        turbine/generator set, a contra set up might make sense if you have
        space for only one tower, but the extra cost of the dual set up plus
        increased maintenence costs might or might not be made up by the
        additional energy harvested.

        The whole idea of the Axial Flux generator is to be simple and low
        cost, I don't see the need to overly complicate a simple system.

        My .02, all standard disclaimers apply.

        Michael Grogg

        --- In axialflux@yahoogrou ps.com, "mart85" <halemart@.. .> wrote:

        >
        > I am trying to build a generator, and I have downloaded the files
        that
        > you have for a windmill design here and I see the sandwich of the
        coil
        > between two sets of opposite magnets.
        >
        > I had an idea, but not sure if anyone had tried it, has anyone
        tried
        > to rotate the coil instead of rotating the magnets? It seems to
        me
        > that there would be less force needed to turn only the coil verses
        > turning both sets of magnets.
        >
        > Thanks for you input.
        >
        > Mart.
        >
        >
        > To get an idea of my application you may visit my video :->
        >
        > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=jxu1vP_ l_7c
        >
        > thanks again.
        >

      • David LeVine
        ... Mart, Slip rings and commutators all are maintenance prone. At high current they wear out and are not easy to repair on a 100 tower. So how do you plan
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 3, 2008
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          mart85 wrote:
          > I am trying to build a generator, and I have downloaded the files that
          > you have for a windmill design here and I see the sandwich of the coil
          > between two sets of opposite magnets.
          >
          > I had an idea, but not sure if anyone had tried it, has anyone tried
          > to rotate the coil instead of rotating the magnets? It seems to me
          > that there would be less force needed to turn only the coil verses
          > turning both sets of magnets.
          >
          Mart,

          Slip rings and commutators all are maintenance prone. At high current
          they wear out and are not easy to repair on a 100' tower.

          So how do you plan to get the power from the coils to the outside world?

          --
          David G. LeVine
          Nashua, NH 03060
        • Sir Dave
          ... You really are a glutton for maintenance! Bearings, which are not designed for current flows, have two problems as brush systems. 1.) DC current through
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 3, 2008
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            Mart Hale wrote:

            Ok,

             

            If you look at my video, I am not building a windmill, but rather something simpler.

             

            I will use multiple phases, and I will put the bridge rectifiers inside the PVC and then I will use each hard drive bearing on each side to output the current.  ( I tested putting current thru the bearings and it worked for me.

             

            I am thinking one could do the same with your windmill as you could put the bridge rectifiers inside the resin and then have two outputs.  In your case, it may be more difficult, but I think it will work for me.

             

            Thanks for your input.

             

            Mart


            You really are a glutton for maintenance!  Bearings, which are not designed for current flows, have two problems as brush systems.

            1.) DC current through bearings results in metal transfer from the (-) negative side to the (+) positive side as well as significant heat loads ()which reduces life.)

            2.) Bearings tend to be hydrostatic devices which "fly" on a microscopic film of oil unless preloaded, oil is nonconductive.  Preloaded bearing sets are pretty easy to buy, but they are expensive and difficult to use.

            Why look for trouble?

            -- 
            David G. LeVine
            Nashua, NH  03060
          • Mart Hale
            Thank you for your insights. Again, I am thinking outside of the box, so to do so, I have to build my own box :-) I am using hard drive bearings, so they are
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 3, 2008
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              Thank you for your insights.

               

              Again, I am thinking outside of the box, so to do so, I have to build my own box J

               

              I am using hard drive bearings, so they are free for me, so nothing on the cost, and they last a LONG time.

               

              The reason I am going thru such trouble is my device does not have much torque, this being said, I have run this device off of two batteries

              for well over 2 weeks time without recharging.    All I am attempting to do is to take advantage of the mechanical force the device gives.

               

              Right now, I have it setup with the electricity flowing thru the hard drive bearings.    ( Took me all day Saturday to make the coils, make a delta setup with the coils

              and make all of the connections within the PVC with the bridge diodes inside.   I cannot yet say how well this is working, as I need to work out a few bugs..

               

              If this does not work, I figure, it is very easy to go back to the other way,   I have so far turned the wheel a few times and it did indeed get current thru the bearings, but much more work I will need to do in order to clean up my setup, and see if I can improve it to have less work involved in setting up.

               

              It just seems to me that the shaft will be easier to turn, if there is less weight of the magnets to turn, and I am willing to put extra effort to explore this possibility.

               

              My setup will stay indoors and has to be monitored anyway,  I do think in time, I will find better methods of getting the electricity out ( perhaps transmit wirelessly a Tesla coil  or a spark gap?   ( I guess I love thinking outside of the box, even it it does mean I do get very lost at times.

               

              I want to thank you for pointing out the systems problems.   It is not practical for a windmill ( something you have to pull down out of the air everyday ) , but I think it is good for a hobby.

               

               

              I do want to say a BIG THANK YOU to whoever put together the directions in the PDF found on this group of building the coils.    They are very very well done and even I can follow them J

               

               

               

               

               

               

              ------------------------
              You really are a glutton for maintenance!  Bearings, which are not designed for current flows, have two problems as brush systems.

              1.) DC current through bearings results in metal transfer from the (-) negative side to the (+) positive side as well as significant heat loads ()which reduces life.)

              2.) Bearings tend to be hydrostatic devices which "fly" on a microscopic film of oil unless preloaded, oil is nonconductive.  Preloaded bearing sets are pretty easy to buy, but they are expensive and difficult to use.

              Why look for trouble?


              -- 
              David G. LeVine
              Nashua , NH  
               03060
            • rem3win
              hi, my name is joe and this is my first post here, i am a machine repairmen at a large forge... and one of the first things drilled into us is if you weld
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 3, 2008
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                hi,
                my name is joe and this is my first post here, i am a machine
                repairmen at a large forge... and one of the first things drilled into
                us is if you weld something, the ground and rod HAVE to be on the same
                side of a bearing... this is the same thing you are planning on doing.
                The reason for this is as David said, the bearings are not solid to
                the races, so the electricity has to 'arc' across the gap... this,

                1)destroys the balls, or
                2) welds them in place

                joe


                --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "Mart Hale" <halemart@...> wrote:
                >
                > Thank you for your insights.
                >
                >
                >
                > Again, I am thinking outside of the box, so to do so, I have to
                build my own
                > box :-)
                >
                >
                >
                > I am using hard drive bearings, so they are free for me, so nothing
                on the
                > cost, and they last a LONG time.
                >
                >
                >
                > The reason I am going thru such trouble is my device does not have much
                > torque, this being said, I have run this device off of two batteries
                >
                > for well over 2 weeks time without recharging. All I am
                attempting to do
                > is to take advantage of the mechanical force the device gives.
                >
                >
                >
                > Right now, I have it setup with the electricity flowing thru the
                hard drive
                > bearings. ( Took me all day Saturday to make the coils, make a delta
                > setup with the coils
                >
                > and make all of the connections within the PVC with the bridge diodes
                > inside. I cannot yet say how well this is working, as I need to
                work out a
                > few bugs..
                >
                >
                >
                > If this does not work, I figure, it is very easy to go back to the other
                > way, I have so far turned the wheel a few times and it did indeed get
                > current thru the bearings, but much more work I will need to do in
                order to
                > clean up my setup, and see if I can improve it to have less work
                involved in
                > setting up.
                >
                >
                >
                > It just seems to me that the shaft will be easier to turn, if there
                is less
                > weight of the magnets to turn, and I am willing to put extra effort to
                > explore this possibility.
                >
                >
                >
                > My setup will stay indoors and has to be monitored anyway, I do
                think in
                > time, I will find better methods of getting the electricity out (
                perhaps
                > transmit wirelessly a Tesla coil or a spark gap? ( I guess I love
                > thinking outside of the box, even it it does mean I do get very lost at
                > times.
                >
                >
                >
                > I want to thank you for pointing out the systems problems. It is not
                > practical for a windmill ( something you have to pull down out of
                the air
                > everyday ) , but I think it is good for a hobby.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > I do want to say a BIG THANK YOU to whoever put together the
                directions in
                > the PDF found on this group of building the coils. They are very very
                > well done and even I can follow them :-)
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------
                > You really are a glutton for maintenance! Bearings, which are not
                designed
                > for current flows, have two problems as brush systems.
                >
                > 1.) DC current through bearings results in metal transfer from the (-)
                > negative side to the (+) positive side as well as significant heat loads
                > ()which reduces life.)
                >
                > 2.) Bearings tend to be hydrostatic devices which "fly" on a microscopic
                > film of oil unless preloaded, oil is nonconductive. Preloaded
                bearing sets
                > are pretty easy to buy, but they are expensive and difficult to use.
                >
                > Why look for trouble?
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --
                > David G. LeVine
                > Nashua, NH 03060
                >
              • Mart Hale
                Hi, Thanks duly noted, Mart _____ From: axialflux@yahoogroups.com [mailto:axialflux@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rem3win Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 9:14
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 3, 2008
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                  Hi,

                   

                  Thanks duly noted,

                   

                  Mart

                   


                  From: axialflux@yahoogroups.com [mailto: axialflux@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of rem3win
                  Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 9:14 PM
                  To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [axialflux] Re: Turning the coils instead of the magnets in the generator.

                   

                  hi,
                  my name is joe and this is my first post here, i am a machine
                  repairmen at a large forge... and one of the first things drilled into
                  us is if you weld something, the ground and rod HAVE to be on the same
                  side of a bearing... this is the same thing you are planning on doing.
                  The reason for this is as David said, the bearings are not solid to
                  the races, so the electricity has to 'arc' across the gap... this,

                  1)destroys the balls, or
                  2) welds them in place

                  joe

                  --- In axialflux@yahoogrou ps.com, " Mart Hale " <halemart@.. .> wrote:

                  >
                  > Thank you for your insights.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Again, I am thinking outside of the box, so to do so, I have to
                  build my own
                  > box :-)
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I am using hard drive bearings, so they are free for me, so nothing
                  on the
                  > cost, and they last a LONG time.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > The reason I am going thru such trouble is my device does not have much
                  > torque, this being said, I have run this device off of two batteries
                  >
                  > for well over 2 weeks time without recharging. All I am
                  attempting to do
                  > is to take advantage of the mechanical force the device gives.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Right now, I have it setup with the electricity flowing thru the
                  hard drive
                  > bearings. ( Took me all day Saturday to make the coils, make a delta
                  > setup with the coils
                  >
                  > and make all of the connections within the PVC with the bridge diodes
                  > inside. I cannot yet say how well this is working, as I need to
                  work out a
                  > few bugs..
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > If this does not work, I figure, it is very easy to go back to the other
                  > way, I have so far turned the wheel a few times and it did indeed get
                  > current thru the bearings, but much more work I will need to do in
                  order to
                  > clean up my setup, and see if I can improve it to have less work
                  involved in
                  > setting up.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > It just seems to me that the shaft will be easier to turn, if there
                  is less
                  > weight of the magnets to turn, and I am willing to put extra effort to
                  > explore this possibility.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > My setup will stay indoors and has to be monitored anyway, I do
                  think in
                  > time, I will find better methods of getting the electricity out (
                  perhaps
                  > transmit wirelessly a Tesla coil or a spark gap? ( I guess I love
                  > thinking outside of the box, even it it does mean I do get very lost at
                  > times.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I want to thank you for pointing out the systems problems. It is not
                  > practical for a windmill ( something you have to pull down out of
                  the air
                  > everyday ) , but I think it is good for a hobby.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I do want to say a BIG THANK YOU to whoever put together the
                  directions in
                  > the PDF found on this group of building the coils. They are very very
                  > well done and even I can follow them :-)
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------ --------- ---
                  > You really are a glutton for maintenance! Bearings, which are not
                  designed
                  > for current flows, have two problems as brush systems.
                  >
                  > 1.) DC current through bearings results in metal transfer from the (-)
                  > negative side to the (+) positive side as well as significant heat loads
                  > ()which reduces life.)
                  >
                  > 2.) Bearings tend to be hydrostatic devices which "fly" on a
                  microscopic
                  > film of oil unless preloaded, oil is nonconductive. Preloaded
                  bearing sets
                  > are pretty easy to buy, but they are expensive and difficult to use.
                  >
                  > Why look for trouble?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > David G. LeVine
                  > Nashua ,
                  w:st="on">NH 03060
                  >

                • Kirk McLoren
                  http://www.vibanalysis.co.uk/technical/electric/electric.html rem3win wrote: hi, my name is joe and this is my first post here, i am a
                  Message 8 of 12 , Feb 3, 2008
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                    http://www.vibanalysis.co.uk/technical/electric/electric.html

                    rem3win <rem3win@...> wrote:
                    hi,
                    my name is joe and this is my first post here, i am a machine
                    repairmen at a large forge... and one of the first things drilled into
                    us is if you weld something, the ground and rod HAVE to be on the same
                    side of a bearing... this is the same thing you are planning on doing.
                    The reason for this is as David said, the bearings are not solid to
                    the races, so the electricity has to 'arc' across the gap... this,

                    1)destroys the balls, or
                    2) welds them in place

                    joe


                    --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "Mart Hale" wrote:
                    >
                    > Thank you for your insights.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Again, I am thinking outside of the box, so to do so, I have to
                    build my own
                    > box :-)
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I am using hard drive bearings, so they are free for me, so nothing
                    on the
                    > cost, and they last a LONG time.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > The reason I am going thru such trouble is my device does not have much
                    > torque, this being said, I have run this device off of two batteries
                    >
                    > for well over 2 weeks time without recharging. All I am
                    attempting to do
                    > is to take advantage of the mechanical force the device gives.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Right now, I have it setup with the electricity flowing thru the
                    hard drive
                    > bearings. ( Took me all day Saturday to make the coils, make a delta
                    > setup with the coils
                    >
                    > and make all of the connections within the PVC with the bridge diodes
                    > inside. I cannot yet say how well this is working, as I need to
                    work out a
                    > few bugs..
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > If this does not work, I figure, it is very easy to go back to the other
                    > way, I have so far turned the wheel a few times and it did indeed get
                    > current thru the bearings, but much more work I will need to do in
                    order to
                    > clean up my setup, and see if I can improve it to have less work
                    involved in
                    > setting up.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > It just seems to me that the shaft will be easier to turn, if there
                    is less
                    > weight of the magnets to turn, and I am willing to put extra effort to
                    > explore this possibility.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > My setup will stay indoors and has to be monitored anyway, I do
                    think in
                    > time, I will find better methods of getting the electricity out (
                    perhaps
                    > transmit wirelessly a Tesla coil or a spark gap? ( I guess I love
                    > thinking outside of the box, even it it does mean I do get very lost at
                    > times.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I want to thank you for pointing out the systems problems. It is not
                    > practical for a windmill ( something you have to pull down out of
                    the air
                    > everyday ) , but I think it is good for a hobby.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I do want to say a BIG THANK YOU to whoever put together the
                    directions in
                    > the PDF found on this group of building the coils. They are very very
                    > well done and even I can follow them :-)
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------
                    > You really are a glutton for maintenance! Bearings, which are not
                    designed
                    > for current flows, have two problems as brush systems.
                    >
                    > 1.) DC current through bearings results in metal transfer from the (-)
                    > negative side to the (+) positive side as well as significant heat loads
                    > ()which reduces life.)
                    >
                    > 2.) Bearings tend to be hydrostatic devices which "fly" on a microscopic
                    > film of oil unless preloaded, oil is nonconductive. Preloaded
                    bearing sets
                    > are pretty easy to buy, but they are expensive and difficult to use.
                    >
                    > Why look for trouble?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > David G. LeVine
                    > Nashua, NH 03060
                    >




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                  • Dan Bartmann
                    Yikes. is this overunity/perpetual motion stuff you re talking? If so good luck and I feel sorry for you. If not forgive me.. Lots of folks wanting to think
                    Message 9 of 12 , Feb 3, 2008
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                      Yikes. is this overunity/perpetual motion stuff you're talking? If
                      so good luck and I feel sorry for you. If not forgive me..

                      Lots of folks wanting to think 'outside the box' these days. Not too
                      many willing to do the research to find out whats actually in it to
                      begin with though. Damned shame.

                      --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "Mart Hale" <halemart@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Thank you for your insights.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Again, I am thinking outside of the box, so to do so, I have to
                      build my own
                      > box :-)
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I am using hard drive bearings, so they are free for me, so nothing
                      on the
                      > cost, and they last a LONG time.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > The reason I am going thru such trouble is my device does not have much
                      > torque, this being said, I have run this device off of two batteries
                      >
                      > for well over 2 weeks time without recharging. All I am
                      attempting to do
                      > is to take advantage of the mechanical force the device gives.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Right now, I have it setup with the electricity flowing thru the
                      hard drive
                      > bearings. ( Took me all day Saturday to make the coils, make a delta
                      > setup with the coils
                      >
                      > and make all of the connections within the PVC with the bridge diodes
                      > inside. I cannot yet say how well this is working, as I need to
                      work out a
                      > few bugs..
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > If this does not work, I figure, it is very easy to go back to the other
                      > way, I have so far turned the wheel a few times and it did indeed get
                      > current thru the bearings, but much more work I will need to do in
                      order to
                      > clean up my setup, and see if I can improve it to have less work
                      involved in
                      > setting up.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > It just seems to me that the shaft will be easier to turn, if there
                      is less
                      > weight of the magnets to turn, and I am willing to put extra effort to
                      > explore this possibility.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > My setup will stay indoors and has to be monitored anyway, I do
                      think in
                      > time, I will find better methods of getting the electricity out (
                      perhaps
                      > transmit wirelessly a Tesla coil or a spark gap? ( I guess I love
                      > thinking outside of the box, even it it does mean I do get very lost at
                      > times.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I want to thank you for pointing out the systems problems. It is not
                      > practical for a windmill ( something you have to pull down out of
                      the air
                      > everyday ) , but I think it is good for a hobby.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I do want to say a BIG THANK YOU to whoever put together the
                      directions in
                      > the PDF found on this group of building the coils. They are very very
                      > well done and even I can follow them :-)
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------
                      > You really are a glutton for maintenance! Bearings, which are not
                      designed
                      > for current flows, have two problems as brush systems.
                      >
                      > 1.) DC current through bearings results in metal transfer from the (-)
                      > negative side to the (+) positive side as well as significant heat loads
                      > ()which reduces life.)
                      >
                      > 2.) Bearings tend to be hydrostatic devices which "fly" on a microscopic
                      > film of oil unless preloaded, oil is nonconductive. Preloaded
                      bearing sets
                      > are pretty easy to buy, but they are expensive and difficult to use.
                      >
                      > Why look for trouble?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > David G. LeVine
                      > Nashua, NH 03060
                      >
                    • David G. LeVine
                      ... You are welcome. ... Not a bad way to go. ... They may not do so with large currents running through them, but I can t figure a cheaper dollars per watt
                      Message 10 of 12 , Feb 28, 2008
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                        Mart Hale wrote:
                        >
                        > Thank you for your insights.
                        >
                        You are welcome.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Again, I am thinking outside of the box, so to do so, I have to build
                        > my own box J
                        >

                        Not a bad way to go.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I am using hard drive bearings, so they are free for me, so nothing on
                        > the cost, and they last a LONG time.
                        >

                        They may not do so with large currents running through them, but I can't
                        figure a cheaper dollars per watt approach.

                        Just as a thought, a "cup" core looks like a can with a post in the
                        middle. The coil is wound around the middle post. Put two together,
                        open face to open face, with a small gap and it becomes a transformer.
                        You can send AC through it with no maintenance as long as the gap
                        remains clean.

                        --
                        David G. LeVine
                        Nashua, NH 03060
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