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Re: N50 Magnets-- now windresource in Bullhead City

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  • geezergdad
    Hello,In the city i live in,i m not allowed to have a big turbine.I live in Bullhead City,Arizona.Anyway i dont plan on running a magnet turbine with wind,i m
    Message 1 of 30 , Dec 1, 2012
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      Hello,In the city i live in,i'm not allowed to have a big turbine.I live in Bullhead City,Arizona.Anyway i dont plan on running a magnet turbine with wind,i'm looking at an alterintive method.In winter i average about 15KW a day.I can place a turbine without to my home without the city even seening it.Anyway thank you for responding back to me John.

      --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "John P" <windpower4jp@...> wrote:
      >
      > I am a PROponent of wind energy since the early 1980's, so don't get me wrong. Have you checked what kind of wind speeds you have there? I looked up airport records (which are taken at only about 30 feet altitude usually), but only see the highest listed on that chart as 8 knots ( 9.2 mph ) which will be disappointing.
      > Build your test machine and document your capture before spending a lot, and get it up higher than 50feet.
      > John
      >
      > --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "geezergdad" <geezergdad@> wrote:
      > >
      > > We average 29 KW a day.I added took my electric bill for a year to get the average.Are Electric is high between June-October.The heat temps here in Bullhead City,Arizona are 100-130 in the summer.We have a 240 A/C unit. That's the only thing that runs on 240. & use are wood stove in the winter.If i could run my electric mostly on wind power,that would be great.My electric bill is going up 25%.
      > >
      > > --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, <solar@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > You don't run a house from a wind turbine, you run it from a battery fed inverter. The wind turbine helps
      > > > recharge the battery. The inverter supplies the 4600 watts you mention, but you don't mention for how
      > > > long. A 1000 watt wind turbine with 6 hours of full wind, can produce 6kWh's. How many kWh's does your
      > > > house consume per day?
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Steve Spence, KK4HFJ
      > > > http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
      > > > http://www.essnmag.com
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > > -------Original Message-------
      > > > > From: geezergdad <geezergdad@>
      > > > > To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > Subject: [axialflux] N50 Magnets
      > > > > Sent: Nov 30 '12 12:15
      > > > >
      > > > > Hello,when i look for these N50 Magnets,i find round ones also.Is it
      > > > > important for me to get the these N50 magnets in the shape the instructions
      > > > > call for?Also i see you describe 12 & 24 Volts systems. Depending how many
      > > > > turns the copper wire is.I need 4600 watts to run my home.So could you tell
      > > > > me what i need to make to get this amount of watts.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • KK4HFJ
      Don t keep us guessing, how will you spin the alternator? ... -- Steve, KK4HFJ http://www.green-trust.org http://www.essnmag.com
      Message 2 of 30 , Dec 1, 2012
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        Don't keep us guessing, how will you spin the alternator?


        On 12/1/2012 5:08 AM, geezergdad wrote:
         

        Hello,In the city i live in,i'm not allowed to have a big turbine.I live in Bullhead City,Arizona.Anyway i dont plan on running a magnet turbine with wind,i'm looking at an alterintive method.In winter i average about 15KW a day.I can place a turbine without to my home without the city even seening it.Anyway thank you for responding back to me John.


        -- 
        Steve, KK4HFJ
        
        http://www.green-trust.org
        
        http://www.essnmag.com
        
        http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
      • geezergdad
        Hello,I m sorry if you thought i was going to keep you guessing.The idea we have is to have a magnet turbine lay facing up.Glue a round disk of wood to behind
        Message 3 of 30 , Dec 1, 2012
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          Hello,I'm sorry if you thought i was going to keep you guessing.The idea we have is to have a magnet turbine lay facing up.Glue a round disk of wood to behind the back magnet.Add magnet to the wood.Make sure those magnets don't interfere with the magnets on the steel disk. Have a strong opposing magnet close to the magnets on the disk to cause it to spin.This part of it ,I've been playing with.This magnet would be secured.I'll have it all drawn out later. The city isn't going to let me have a big turbine on my property. What do you think.Jim Lee

          --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, KK4HFJ <solar@...> wrote:
          >
          > Don't keep us guessing, how will you spin the alternator?
          >
          >
          > On 12/1/2012 5:08 AM, geezergdad wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello,In the city i live in,i'm not allowed to have a big turbine.I
          > > live in Bullhead City,Arizona.Anyway i dont plan on running a magnet
          > > turbine with wind,i'm looking at an alterintive method.In winter i
          > > average about 15KW a day.I can place a turbine without to my home
          > > without the city even seening it.Anyway thank you for responding back
          > > to me John.
          > >
          >
          > --
          > Steve, KK4HFJ
          >
          > http://www.green-trust.org
          >
          > http://www.essnmag.com
          >
          > http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
          >
        • KK4HFJ
          Magnets are not a source of energy. You got sucked into a perpetual motion scam. It will not work. ... -- Steve, KK4HFJ http://www.green-trust.org
          Message 4 of 30 , Dec 1, 2012
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            Magnets are not a source of energy. You got sucked into a perpetual motion scam. It will not work.

            On 12/1/2012 7:20 PM, geezergdad wrote:
             

            Hello,I'm sorry if you thought i was going to keep you guessing.The idea we have is to have a magnet turbine lay facing up.Glue a round disk of wood to behind the back magnet.Add magnet to the wood.Make sure those magnets don't interfere with the magnets on the steel disk. Have a strong opposing magnet close to the magnets on the disk to cause it to spin.This part of it ,I've been playing with.This magnet would be secured.I'll have it all drawn out later. The city isn't going to let me have a big turbine on my property. What do you think.Jim Lee

            --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, KK4HFJ <solar@...> wrote:
            >
            > Don't keep us guessing, how will you spin the alternator?
            >
            >
            > On 12/1/2012 5:08 AM, geezergdad wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello,In the city i live in,i'm not allowed to have a big turbine.I
            > > live in Bullhead City,Arizona.Anyway i dont plan on running a magnet
            > > turbine with wind,i'm looking at an alterintive method.In winter i
            > > average about 15KW a day.I can place a turbine without to my home
            > > without the city even seening it.Anyway thank you for responding back
            > > to me John.
            > >
            >
            > --
            > Steve, KK4HFJ
            >
            > http://www.green-trust.org
            >
            > http://www.essnmag.com
            >
            > http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
            >



            -- 
            Steve, KK4HFJ
            
            http://www.green-trust.org
            
            http://www.essnmag.com
            
            http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
          • geezergdad
            Hello John,I haven t been sucked into anything,I haven t bought anything.Why do you think it s a scam.What alternative would you have instead of wind blades?
            Message 5 of 30 , Dec 1, 2012
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              Hello John,I haven't been sucked into anything,I haven't bought anything.Why do you think it's a scam.What alternative would you have instead of wind blades?
              --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, KK4HFJ <solar@...> wrote:
              >
              > Magnets are not a source of energy. You got sucked into a perpetual
              > motion scam. It will not work.
              >
              > On 12/1/2012 7:20 PM, geezergdad wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello,I'm sorry if you thought i was going to keep you guessing.The
              > > idea we have is to have a magnet turbine lay facing up.Glue a round
              > > disk of wood to behind the back magnet.Add magnet to the wood.Make
              > > sure those magnets don't interfere with the magnets on the steel disk.
              > > Have a strong opposing magnet close to the magnets on the disk to
              > > cause it to spin.This part of it ,I've been playing with.This magnet
              > > would be secured.I'll have it all drawn out later. The city isn't
              > > going to let me have a big turbine on my property. What do you
              > > think.Jim Lee
              > >
              > > --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com <mailto:axialflux%40yahoogroups.com>,
              > > KK4HFJ <solar@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Don't keep us guessing, how will you spin the alternator?
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > On 12/1/2012 5:08 AM, geezergdad wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Hello,In the city i live in,i'm not allowed to have a big turbine.I
              > > > > live in Bullhead City,Arizona.Anyway i dont plan on running a magnet
              > > > > turbine with wind,i'm looking at an alterintive method.In winter i
              > > > > average about 15KW a day.I can place a turbine without to my home
              > > > > without the city even seening it.Anyway thank you for responding back
              > > > > to me John.
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > > --
              > > > Steve, KK4HFJ
              > > >
              > > > http://www.green-trust.org
              > > >
              > > > http://www.essnmag.com
              > > >
              > > > http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > --
              > Steve, KK4HFJ
              >
              > http://www.green-trust.org
              >
              > http://www.essnmag.com
              >
              > http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
              >
            • KK4HFJ
              Well, I m not John, but magnets do not power things. things spin magnets or coils past magnets to make electricity. things like engines, wind, water, etc.
              Message 6 of 30 , Dec 1, 2012
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                Well, I'm not John, but magnets do not power things. things spin magnets or coils past magnets to make electricity. things like engines, wind, water, etc. Anyone who promotes magnet power is promoting a scam.

                On 12/1/2012 8:09 PM, geezergdad wrote:
                 


                Hello John,I haven't been sucked into anything,I haven't bought anything.Why do you think it's a scam.What alternative would you have instead of wind blades?
                --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, KK4HFJ <solar@...> wrote:
                >
                > Magnets are not a source of energy. You got sucked into a perpetual
                > motion scam. It will not work.
                >
                > On 12/1/2012 7:20 PM, geezergdad wrote:
                > >
                > > Hello,I'm sorry if you thought i was going to keep you guessing.The
                > > idea we have is to have a magnet turbine lay facing up.Glue a round
                > > disk of wood to behind the back magnet.Add magnet to the wood.Make
                > > sure those magnets don't interfere with the magnets on the steel disk.
                > > Have a strong opposing magnet close to the magnets on the disk to
                > > cause it to spin.This part of it ,I've been playing with.This magnet
                > > would be secured.I'll have it all drawn out later. The city isn't
                > > going to let me have a big turbine on my property. What do you
                > > think.Jim Lee
                > >
                > > --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com <mailto:axialflux%40yahoogroups.com>,
                > > KK4HFJ <solar@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Don't keep us guessing, how will you spin the alternator?
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > On 12/1/2012 5:08 AM, geezergdad wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Hello,In the city i live in,i'm not allowed to have a big turbine.I
                > > > > live in Bullhead City,Arizona.Anyway i dont plan on running a magnet
                > > > > turbine with wind,i'm looking at an alterintive method.In winter i
                > > > > average about 15KW a day.I can place a turbine without to my home
                > > > > without the city even seening it.Anyway thank you for responding back
                > > > > to me John.
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > > --
                > > > Steve, KK4HFJ
                > > >
                > > > http://www.green-trust.org
                > > >
                > > > http://www.essnmag.com
                > > >
                > > > http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > --
                > Steve, KK4HFJ
                >
                > http://www.green-trust.org
                >
                > http://www.essnmag.com
                >
                > http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
                >



                -- 
                Steve, KK4HFJ
                
                http://www.green-trust.org
                
                http://www.essnmag.com
                
                http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
              • dulca@duo-county.com
                Geezergdad Maybe this is - will be a less obtrusive - confrontational way of saying AND explaining why it will not work . I m sure you understand energy is
                Message 7 of 30 , Dec 1, 2012
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                  Geezergdad

                  Maybe this is - will be a less obtrusive - confrontational way of saying
                  AND explaining why it will not 'work'.

                  I'm sure you understand energy is required to overcome the weight of the
                  rotating portion, plus now the added weight of the magnets you propose to
                  use, plus energy to overcome inertia, as well as energy to overcome
                  friction introduced by the bearings etc.

                  Any power source (generator) requires more energy - BTU to produce the
                  electricity than the generator can produce. i.e. a gas/diesel driven
                  engine spinning a generator requires MORE HP to run the fuel powered
                  engine (source of rotation) than the alternator puts out. For example 13
                  HP engine to produce say 9 HP of electric energy.

                  Therefore, the driving (repulsion) magnets HAVE TO BE BIGGER & HEAVIER
                  than those creating the electrical energy so friction - weight - inertia
                  cannot be overcome solely by/with larger magnets repelling equally LARGE
                  magnets on the rotating portion.

                  Wouldn't it be NICE if you could use 9,700 Gauss magnets to drive say
                  smaller-lighter 3,500 Gauss magnets producing say 1,500 W! You'd say /
                  think, shucks I can buy magnets that BIG, but when you add up the minimum
                  load you wish to power, you will, DARN IT, always be producing less than
                  you 'need' and by the time you've found, engineered a sufficiently LARGE
                  magnetic repulsion device to 'power' a sufficiently large alternator to
                  meet your load demand, the WHOLE thing, not even counting electrical
                  switch gear, over current protection, provision to cooling, space, etc.
                  you will have spent MORE than you 'saved'.

                  Thus Steve called it a/the perpetual motion machine. So far no one has
                  come up with a way to use less energy in than the energy being output!
                  Hydroelectric was thought (at first) to be a free source of power. Ask
                  Westinghouse, Edison, and Tesla! They found out for every 1 BTU created,
                  it took at least .5 BTU MORE to produce every single BTU! When the
                  Niagara Generating Facility was created, labor was CHEAP, but even back
                  then to cost to produce the very first watt, not to mention Kilowatt was
                  staggering!

                  GOOD luck and if you can SOLVE/resolve the greater energy in vs. less
                  energy out problem, PLEASE let me know, you might convince me and I might
                  invest! Be WELL 'n ALL be SAFE!

                  Ms. RA


                  > Magnets are not a source of energy. You got sucked into a perpetual
                  > motion scam. It will not work.
                  >
                  > On 12/1/2012 7:20 PM, geezergdad wrote:
                  >>
                  >> Hello,I'm sorry if you thought i was going to keep you guessing.The
                  >> idea we have is to have a magnet turbine lay facing up.Glue a round
                  >> disk of wood to behind the back magnet.Add magnet to the wood.Make
                  >> sure those magnets don't interfere with the magnets on the steel disk.
                  >> Have a strong opposing magnet close to the magnets on the disk to
                  >> cause it to spin.This part of it ,I've been playing with.This magnet
                  >> would be secured.I'll have it all drawn out later. The city isn't
                  >> going to let me have a big turbine on my property. What do you
                  >> think.Jim Lee
                  >>
                  >> --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com <mailto:axialflux%40yahoogroups.com>,
                  >> KK4HFJ <solar@...> wrote:
                  >> >
                  >> > Don't keep us guessing, how will you spin the alternator?
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> > On 12/1/2012 5:08 AM, geezergdad wrote:
                  >> > >
                  >> > > Hello,In the city i live in,i'm not allowed to have a big turbine.I
                  >> > > live in Bullhead City,Arizona.Anyway i dont plan on running a magnet
                  >> > > turbine with wind,i'm looking at an alterintive method.In winter i
                  >> > > average about 15KW a day.I can place a turbine without to my home
                  >> > > without the city even seening it.Anyway thank you for responding
                  >> back
                  >> > > to me John.
                  >> > >
                  >> >
                  >> > --
                  >> > Steve, KK4HFJ
                  >> >
                  >> > http://www.green-trust.org
                  >> >
                  >> > http://www.essnmag.com
                  >> >
                  >> > http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
                  >> >
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Steve, KK4HFJ
                  >
                  > http://www.green-trust.org
                  >
                  > http://www.essnmag.com
                  >
                  > http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
                  >
                  >
                • geezergdad
                  Thank you very much for this article.I m just someone who s getting tired of the high electric bill.It cost more for solar then this homemade magnet
                  Message 8 of 30 , Dec 2, 2012
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                    Thank you very much for this article.I'm just someone who's getting tired of the high electric bill.It cost more for solar then this homemade magnet alternator.Let me know if you have another idea how to spin the turbine without fan blades.The city wont let me put up a big turbine.Jim
                    --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, dulca@... wrote:
                    >
                    > Geezergdad
                    >
                    > Maybe this is - will be a less obtrusive - confrontational way of saying
                    > AND explaining why it will not 'work'.
                    >
                    > I'm sure you understand energy is required to overcome the weight of the
                    > rotating portion, plus now the added weight of the magnets you propose to
                    > use, plus energy to overcome inertia, as well as energy to overcome
                    > friction introduced by the bearings etc.
                    >
                    > Any power source (generator) requires more energy - BTU to produce the
                    > electricity than the generator can produce. i.e. a gas/diesel driven
                    > engine spinning a generator requires MORE HP to run the fuel powered
                    > engine (source of rotation) than the alternator puts out. For example 13
                    > HP engine to produce say 9 HP of electric energy.
                    >
                    > Therefore, the driving (repulsion) magnets HAVE TO BE BIGGER & HEAVIER
                    > than those creating the electrical energy so friction - weight - inertia
                    > cannot be overcome solely by/with larger magnets repelling equally LARGE
                    > magnets on the rotating portion.
                    >
                    > Wouldn't it be NICE if you could use 9,700 Gauss magnets to drive say
                    > smaller-lighter 3,500 Gauss magnets producing say 1,500 W! You'd say /
                    > think, shucks I can buy magnets that BIG, but when you add up the minimum
                    > load you wish to power, you will, DARN IT, always be producing less than
                    > you 'need' and by the time you've found, engineered a sufficiently LARGE
                    > magnetic repulsion device to 'power' a sufficiently large alternator to
                    > meet your load demand, the WHOLE thing, not even counting electrical
                    > switch gear, over current protection, provision to cooling, space, etc.
                    > you will have spent MORE than you 'saved'.
                    >
                    > Thus Steve called it a/the perpetual motion machine. So far no one has
                    > come up with a way to use less energy in than the energy being output!
                    > Hydroelectric was thought (at first) to be a free source of power. Ask
                    > Westinghouse, Edison, and Tesla! They found out for every 1 BTU created,
                    > it took at least .5 BTU MORE to produce every single BTU! When the
                    > Niagara Generating Facility was created, labor was CHEAP, but even back
                    > then to cost to produce the very first watt, not to mention Kilowatt was
                    > staggering!
                    >
                    > GOOD luck and if you can SOLVE/resolve the greater energy in vs. less
                    > energy out problem, PLEASE let me know, you might convince me and I might
                    > invest! Be WELL 'n ALL be SAFE!
                    >
                    > Ms. RA
                    >
                    >
                    > > Magnets are not a source of energy. You got sucked into a perpetual
                    > > motion scam. It will not work.
                    > >
                    > > On 12/1/2012 7:20 PM, geezergdad wrote:
                    > >>
                    > >> Hello,I'm sorry if you thought i was going to keep you guessing.The
                    > >> idea we have is to have a magnet turbine lay facing up.Glue a round
                    > >> disk of wood to behind the back magnet.Add magnet to the wood.Make
                    > >> sure those magnets don't interfere with the magnets on the steel disk.
                    > >> Have a strong opposing magnet close to the magnets on the disk to
                    > >> cause it to spin.This part of it ,I've been playing with.This magnet
                    > >> would be secured.I'll have it all drawn out later. The city isn't
                    > >> going to let me have a big turbine on my property. What do you
                    > >> think.Jim Lee
                    > >>
                    > >> --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com <mailto:axialflux%40yahoogroups.com>,
                    > >> KK4HFJ <solar@> wrote:
                    > >> >
                    > >> > Don't keep us guessing, how will you spin the alternator?
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> > On 12/1/2012 5:08 AM, geezergdad wrote:
                    > >> > >
                    > >> > > Hello,In the city i live in,i'm not allowed to have a big turbine.I
                    > >> > > live in Bullhead City,Arizona.Anyway i dont plan on running a magnet
                    > >> > > turbine with wind,i'm looking at an alterintive method.In winter i
                    > >> > > average about 15KW a day.I can place a turbine without to my home
                    > >> > > without the city even seening it.Anyway thank you for responding
                    > >> back
                    > >> > > to me John.
                    > >> > >
                    > >> >
                    > >> > --
                    > >> > Steve, KK4HFJ
                    > >> >
                    > >> > http://www.green-trust.org
                    > >> >
                    > >> > http://www.essnmag.com
                    > >> >
                    > >> > http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
                    > >> >
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > Steve, KK4HFJ
                    > >
                    > > http://www.green-trust.org
                    > >
                    > > http://www.essnmag.com
                    > >
                    > > http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • geezergdad
                    Also there is where i go my idea. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3427891/free_energy_how_to_build_magnetic_power_generator_for_home/
                    Message 9 of 30 , Dec 2, 2012
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                      Also there is where i go my idea. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3427891/free_energy_how_to_build_magnetic_power_generator_for_home/

                      --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, dulca@... wrote:
                      >
                      > Geezergdad
                      >
                      > Maybe this is - will be a less obtrusive - confrontational way of saying
                      > AND explaining why it will not 'work'.
                      >
                      > I'm sure you understand energy is required to overcome the weight of the
                      > rotating portion, plus now the added weight of the magnets you propose to
                      > use, plus energy to overcome inertia, as well as energy to overcome
                      > friction introduced by the bearings etc.
                      >
                      > Any power source (generator) requires more energy - BTU to produce the
                      > electricity than the generator can produce. i.e. a gas/diesel driven
                      > engine spinning a generator requires MORE HP to run the fuel powered
                      > engine (source of rotation) than the alternator puts out. For example 13
                      > HP engine to produce say 9 HP of electric energy.
                      >
                      > Therefore, the driving (repulsion) magnets HAVE TO BE BIGGER & HEAVIER
                      > than those creating the electrical energy so friction - weight - inertia
                      > cannot be overcome solely by/with larger magnets repelling equally LARGE
                      > magnets on the rotating portion.
                      >
                      > Wouldn't it be NICE if you could use 9,700 Gauss magnets to drive say
                      > smaller-lighter 3,500 Gauss magnets producing say 1,500 W! You'd say /
                      > think, shucks I can buy magnets that BIG, but when you add up the minimum
                      > load you wish to power, you will, DARN IT, always be producing less than
                      > you 'need' and by the time you've found, engineered a sufficiently LARGE
                      > magnetic repulsion device to 'power' a sufficiently large alternator to
                      > meet your load demand, the WHOLE thing, not even counting electrical
                      > switch gear, over current protection, provision to cooling, space, etc.
                      > you will have spent MORE than you 'saved'.
                      >
                      > Thus Steve called it a/the perpetual motion machine. So far no one has
                      > come up with a way to use less energy in than the energy being output!
                      > Hydroelectric was thought (at first) to be a free source of power. Ask
                      > Westinghouse, Edison, and Tesla! They found out for every 1 BTU created,
                      > it took at least .5 BTU MORE to produce every single BTU! When the
                      > Niagara Generating Facility was created, labor was CHEAP, but even back
                      > then to cost to produce the very first watt, not to mention Kilowatt was
                      > staggering!
                      >
                      > GOOD luck and if you can SOLVE/resolve the greater energy in vs. less
                      > energy out problem, PLEASE let me know, you might convince me and I might
                      > invest! Be WELL 'n ALL be SAFE!
                      >
                      > Ms. RA
                      >
                      >
                      > > Magnets are not a source of energy. You got sucked into a perpetual
                      > > motion scam. It will not work.
                      > >
                      > > On 12/1/2012 7:20 PM, geezergdad wrote:
                      > >>
                      > >> Hello,I'm sorry if you thought i was going to keep you guessing.The
                      > >> idea we have is to have a magnet turbine lay facing up.Glue a round
                      > >> disk of wood to behind the back magnet.Add magnet to the wood.Make
                      > >> sure those magnets don't interfere with the magnets on the steel disk.
                      > >> Have a strong opposing magnet close to the magnets on the disk to
                      > >> cause it to spin.This part of it ,I've been playing with.This magnet
                      > >> would be secured.I'll have it all drawn out later. The city isn't
                      > >> going to let me have a big turbine on my property. What do you
                      > >> think.Jim Lee
                      > >>
                      > >> --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com <mailto:axialflux%40yahoogroups.com>,
                      > >> KK4HFJ <solar@> wrote:
                      > >> >
                      > >> > Don't keep us guessing, how will you spin the alternator?
                      > >> >
                      > >> >
                      > >> > On 12/1/2012 5:08 AM, geezergdad wrote:
                      > >> > >
                      > >> > > Hello,In the city i live in,i'm not allowed to have a big turbine.I
                      > >> > > live in Bullhead City,Arizona.Anyway i dont plan on running a magnet
                      > >> > > turbine with wind,i'm looking at an alterintive method.In winter i
                      > >> > > average about 15KW a day.I can place a turbine without to my home
                      > >> > > without the city even seening it.Anyway thank you for responding
                      > >> back
                      > >> > > to me John.
                      > >> > >
                      > >> >
                      > >> > --
                      > >> > Steve, KK4HFJ
                      > >> >
                      > >> > http://www.green-trust.org
                      > >> >
                      > >> > http://www.essnmag.com
                      > >> >
                      > >> > http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
                      > >> >
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --
                      > > Steve, KK4HFJ
                      > >
                      > > http://www.green-trust.org
                      > >
                      > > http://www.essnmag.com
                      > >
                      > > http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • KK4HFJ
                      It s a hoax. ... -- Steve, KK4HFJ http://www.green-trust.org http://www.essnmag.com http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
                      Message 10 of 30 , Dec 2, 2012
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                      • 0 Attachment
                        It's a hoax.

                        On 12/2/2012 10:13 AM, geezergdad wrote:
                         

                        Also there is where i go my idea. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3427891/free_energy_how_to_build_magnetic_power_generator_for_home/

                        --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, dulca@... wrote:
                        >
                        > Geezergdad
                        >
                        > Maybe this is - will be a less obtrusive - confrontational way of saying
                        > AND explaining why it will not 'work'.
                        >
                        > I'm sure you understand energy is required to overcome the weight of the
                        > rotating portion, plus now the added weight of the magnets you propose to
                        > use, plus energy to overcome inertia, as well as energy to overcome
                        > friction introduced by the bearings etc.
                        >
                        > Any power source (generator) requires more energy - BTU to produce the
                        > electricity than the generator can produce. i.e. a gas/diesel driven
                        > engine spinning a generator requires MORE HP to run the fuel powered
                        > engine (source of rotation) than the alternator puts out. For example 13
                        > HP engine to produce say 9 HP of electric energy.
                        >
                        > Therefore, the driving (repulsion) magnets HAVE TO BE BIGGER & HEAVIER
                        > than those creating the electrical energy so friction - weight - inertia
                        > cannot be overcome solely by/with larger magnets repelling equally LARGE
                        > magnets on the rotating portion.
                        >
                        > Wouldn't it be NICE if you could use 9,700 Gauss magnets to drive say
                        > smaller-lighter 3,500 Gauss magnets producing say 1,500 W! You'd say /
                        > think, shucks I can buy magnets that BIG, but when you add up the minimum
                        > load you wish to power, you will, DARN IT, always be producing less than
                        > you 'need' and by the time you've found, engineered a sufficiently LARGE
                        > magnetic repulsion device to 'power' a sufficiently large alternator to
                        > meet your load demand, the WHOLE thing, not even counting electrical
                        > switch gear, over current protection, provision to cooling, space, etc.
                        > you will have spent MORE than you 'saved'.
                        >
                        > Thus Steve called it a/the perpetual motion machine. So far no one has
                        > come up with a way to use less energy in than the energy being output!
                        > Hydroelectric was thought (at first) to be a free source of power. Ask
                        > Westinghouse, Edison, and Tesla! They found out for every 1 BTU created,
                        > it took at least .5 BTU MORE to produce every single BTU! When the
                        > Niagara Generating Facility was created, labor was CHEAP, but even back
                        > then to cost to produce the very first watt, not to mention Kilowatt was
                        > staggering!
                        >
                        > GOOD luck and if you can SOLVE/resolve the greater energy in vs. less
                        > energy out problem, PLEASE let me know, you might convince me and I might
                        > invest! Be WELL 'n ALL be SAFE!
                        >
                        > Ms. RA
                        >
                        >
                        > > Magnets are not a source of energy. You got sucked into a perpetual
                        > > motion scam. It will not work.
                        > >
                        > > On 12/1/2012 7:20 PM, geezergdad wrote:
                        > >>
                        > >> Hello,I'm sorry if you thought i was going to keep you guessing.The
                        > >> idea we have is to have a magnet turbine lay facing up.Glue a round
                        > >> disk of wood to behind the back magnet.Add magnet to the wood.Make
                        > >> sure those magnets don't interfere with the magnets on the steel disk.
                        > >> Have a strong opposing magnet close to the magnets on the disk to
                        > >> cause it to spin.This part of it ,I've been playing with.This magnet
                        > >> would be secured.I'll have it all drawn out later. The city isn't
                        > >> going to let me have a big turbine on my property. What do you
                        > >> think.Jim Lee
                        > >>
                        > >> --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com <mailto:axialflux%40yahoogroups.com>,
                        > >> KK4HFJ <solar@> wrote:
                        > >> >
                        > >> > Don't keep us guessing, how will you spin the alternator?
                        > >> >
                        > >> >
                        > >> > On 12/1/2012 5:08 AM, geezergdad wrote:
                        > >> > >
                        > >> > > Hello,In the city i live in,i'm not allowed to have a big turbine.I
                        > >> > > live in Bullhead City,Arizona.Anyway i dont plan on running a magnet
                        > >> > > turbine with wind,i'm looking at an alterintive method.In winter i
                        > >> > > average about 15KW a day.I can place a turbine without to my home
                        > >> > > without the city even seening it.Anyway thank you for responding
                        > >> back
                        > >> > > to me John.
                        > >> > >
                        > >> >
                        > >> > --
                        > >> > Steve, KK4HFJ
                        > >> >
                        > >> > http://www.green-trust.org
                        > >> >
                        > >> > http://www.essnmag.com
                        > >> >
                        > >> > http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
                        > >> >
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --
                        > > Steve, KK4HFJ
                        > >
                        > > http://www.green-trust.org
                        > >
                        > > http://www.essnmag.com
                        > >
                        > > http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
                        > >
                        > >
                        >



                        -- 
                        Steve, KK4HFJ
                        
                        http://www.green-trust.org
                        
                        http://www.essnmag.com
                        
                        http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
                      • ron ohler
                        Hi, Oh Boy. Total hoax. Hope they didn t get any of your money. There must be power wires to the motor hidden in the putty passing through to battery s under
                        Message 11 of 30 , Dec 2, 2012
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                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi,
                          Oh Boy. Total hoax. Hope they didn't get any of your money.
                          There must be power wires to the motor hidden in the putty passing through to battery's under the white mounting board. Newtons law - equal and opposite reactions. No way for a magnet to pull toward another harder than it repels from it. Or in the opposite - be repelled harder than it is attracted. By the forces of nature the disk will not rotate. In fact - it will be harder to do so.
                          You need to add an external force or energy for there to be motion induced.
                          The nearest thing to what they show is a stepper motor. Try turning one of those and you will feel the cogging effect of the magnetic poles as they pass each other to the next place where the magnetic forces balance.
                          Best,
                          RonO
                          --- On Sun, 12/2/12, geezergdad <geezergdad@...> wrote:

                          From: geezergdad <geezergdad@...>
                          Subject: [axialflux] Re: More energy in for LESS energy out WAS: N50 Magnets-- now windresource in Bullhead City
                          To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Sunday, December 2, 2012, 10:13 AM

                          Also there is where i go my idea. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3427891/free_energy_how_to_build_magnetic_power_generator_for_home/

                          --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, dulca@... wrote:
                          >
                          > Geezergdad
                          >
                          > Maybe this is - will be a less obtrusive - confrontational way of saying
                          > AND explaining why it will not 'work'.
                          >
                          > I'm sure you understand energy is required to overcome the weight of the
                          > rotating portion, plus now the added weight of the magnets you propose to
                          > use, plus energy to overcome inertia, as well as energy to overcome
                          > friction introduced by the bearings etc.
                          >
                          > Any power source (generator) requires more energy - BTU to produce the
                          > electricity than the generator can produce.  i.e. a gas/diesel driven
                          > engine spinning a generator requires MORE HP to run the fuel powered
                          > engine (source of rotation) than the alternator puts out.  For example 13
                          > HP engine to produce say 9 HP of electric energy.
                          >
                          > Therefore, the driving (repulsion) magnets HAVE TO BE BIGGER & HEAVIER
                          > than those creating the electrical energy so friction - weight - inertia
                          > cannot be overcome solely by/with larger magnets repelling equally LARGE
                          > magnets on the rotating portion.
                          >
                          > Wouldn't it be NICE if you could use 9,700 Gauss magnets to drive say
                          > smaller-lighter 3,500 Gauss magnets producing say 1,500 W!  You'd say /
                          > think, shucks I can buy magnets that BIG, but when you add up the minimum
                          > load you wish to power, you will, DARN IT, always be producing less than
                          > you 'need' and by the time you've found, engineered a sufficiently LARGE
                          > magnetic repulsion device to 'power' a sufficiently large alternator to
                          > meet your load demand, the WHOLE thing, not even counting electrical
                          > switch gear, over current protection, provision to cooling, space, etc.
                          > you will have spent MORE than you 'saved'.
                          >
                          > Thus Steve called it a/the perpetual motion machine.  So far no one has
                          > come up with a way to use less energy in than the energy being output!
                          > Hydroelectric was thought (at first) to be a free source of power.  Ask
                          > Westinghouse, Edison, and Tesla!  They found out for every 1 BTU created,
                          > it took at least .5 BTU MORE to produce every single BTU!  When the
                          > Niagara Generating Facility was created, labor was CHEAP, but even back
                          > then to cost to produce the very first watt, not to mention Kilowatt was
                          > staggering!
                          >
                          > GOOD luck and if you can SOLVE/resolve the greater energy in vs. less
                          > energy out problem, PLEASE let me know, you might convince me and I might
                          > invest!  Be WELL 'n ALL be SAFE!
                          >
                          > Ms. RA
                          >
                          >
                          > > Magnets are not a source of energy. You got sucked into a perpetual
                          > > motion scam. It will not work.
                          > >
                          > > On 12/1/2012 7:20 PM, geezergdad wrote:
                          > >>
                          > >> Hello,I'm sorry if you thought i was going to keep you guessing.The
                          > >> idea we have is to have a magnet turbine lay facing up.Glue a round
                          > >> disk of wood to behind the back magnet.Add magnet to the wood.Make
                          > >> sure those magnets don't interfere with the magnets on the steel disk.
                          > >> Have a strong opposing magnet close to the magnets on the disk to
                          > >> cause it to spin.This part of it ,I've been playing with.This magnet
                          > >> would be secured.I'll have it all drawn out later. The city isn't
                          > >> going to let me have a big turbine on my property. What do you
                          > >> think.Jim Lee
                          > >>
                          > >> --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com <mailto:axialflux%40yahoogroups.com>,
                          > >> KK4HFJ <solar@> wrote:
                          > >> >
                          > >> > Don't keep us guessing, how will you spin the alternator?
                          > >> >
                          > >> >
                          > >> > On 12/1/2012 5:08 AM, geezergdad wrote:
                          > >> > >
                          > >> > > Hello,In the city i live in,i'm not allowed to have a big turbine.I
                          > >> > > live in Bullhead City,Arizona.Anyway i dont plan on running a magnet
                          > >> > > turbine with wind,i'm looking at an alterintive method.In winter i
                          > >> > > average about 15KW a day.I can place a turbine without to my home
                          > >> > > without the city even seening it.Anyway thank you for responding
                          > >> back
                          > >> > > to me John.
                          > >> > >
                          > >> >
                          > >> > --
                          > >> > Steve, KK4HFJ
                          > >> >
                          > >> > http://www.green-trust.org
                          > >> >
                          > >> > http://www.essnmag.com
                          > >> >
                          > >> > http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
                          > >> >
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --
                          > > Steve, KK4HFJ
                          > >
                          > > http://www.green-trust.org
                          > >
                          > > http://www.essnmag.com
                          > >
                          > > http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
                          > >
                          > >
                          >




                          ------------------------------------

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                        • geezergdad
                          I never bought anything from them & had no intention to do so.The only thing that caught my interest, was the idea of spinning a disk with a magnet.Not
                          Message 12 of 30 , Dec 2, 2012
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                            I never bought anything from them & had no intention to do so.The only thing that caught my interest, was the idea of spinning a disk with a magnet.Not anything else.Like i said,in Bullhead City,AZ,where i live,I'm not allowed to have a big wind turbine on my property.So i was looking for another way to turn the magnet turbine on this group site without fan blades.Anyone out there have an idea how to.Jim

                            --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, ron ohler <ohler_ron@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi,
                            > Oh Boy. Total hoax. Hope they didn't get any of your money.
                            > There must be power wires to the motor hidden in the putty passing through to battery's under the white mounting board. Newtons law - equal and opposite reactions. No way for a magnet to pull toward another harder than it repels from it. Or in the opposite - be repelled harder than it is attracted. By the forces of nature the disk will not rotate. In fact - it will be harder to do so.
                            > You need to add an external force or energy for there to be motion induced.
                            > The nearest thing to what they show is a stepper motor. Try turning one of those and you will feel the cogging effect of the magnetic poles as they pass each other to the next place where the magnetic forces balance.
                            > Best,
                            > RonO
                            > --- On Sun, 12/2/12, geezergdad <geezergdad@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > From: geezergdad <geezergdad@...>
                            > Subject: [axialflux] Re: More energy in for LESS energy out WAS: N50 Magnets-- now windresource in Bullhead City
                            > To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                            > Date: Sunday, December 2, 2012, 10:13 AM
                            >
                            > Also there is where i go my idea. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3427891/free_energy_how_to_build_magnetic_power_generator_for_home/
                            >
                            > --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, dulca@ wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Geezergdad
                            > >
                            > > Maybe this is - will be a less obtrusive - confrontational way of saying
                            > > AND explaining why it will not 'work'.
                            > >
                            > > I'm sure you understand energy is required to overcome the weight of the
                            > > rotating portion, plus now the added weight of the magnets you propose to
                            > > use, plus energy to overcome inertia, as well as energy to overcome
                            > > friction introduced by the bearings etc.
                            > >
                            > > Any power source (generator) requires more energy - BTU to produce the
                            > > electricity than the generator can produce.  i.e. a gas/diesel driven
                            > > engine spinning a generator requires MORE HP to run the fuel powered
                            > > engine (source of rotation) than the alternator puts out.  For example 13
                            > > HP engine to produce say 9 HP of electric energy.
                            > >
                            > > Therefore, the driving (repulsion) magnets HAVE TO BE BIGGER & HEAVIER
                            > > than those creating the electrical energy so friction - weight - inertia
                            > > cannot be overcome solely by/with larger magnets repelling equally LARGE
                            > > magnets on the rotating portion.
                            > >
                            > > Wouldn't it be NICE if you could use 9,700 Gauss magnets to drive say
                            > > smaller-lighter 3,500 Gauss magnets producing say 1,500 W!  You'd say /
                            > > think, shucks I can buy magnets that BIG, but when you add up the minimum
                            > > load you wish to power, you will, DARN IT, always be producing less than
                            > > you 'need' and by the time you've found, engineered a sufficiently LARGE
                            > > magnetic repulsion device to 'power' a sufficiently large alternator to
                            > > meet your load demand, the WHOLE thing, not even counting electrical
                            > > switch gear, over current protection, provision to cooling, space, etc.
                            > > you will have spent MORE than you 'saved'.
                            > >
                            > > Thus Steve called it a/the perpetual motion machine.  So far no one has
                            > > come up with a way to use less energy in than the energy being output!
                            > > Hydroelectric was thought (at first) to be a free source of power.  Ask
                            > > Westinghouse, Edison, and Tesla!  They found out for every 1 BTU created,
                            > > it took at least .5 BTU MORE to produce every single BTU!  When the
                            > > Niagara Generating Facility was created, labor was CHEAP, but even back
                            > > then to cost to produce the very first watt, not to mention Kilowatt was
                            > > staggering!
                            > >
                            > > GOOD luck and if you can SOLVE/resolve the greater energy in vs. less
                            > > energy out problem, PLEASE let me know, you might convince me and I might
                            > > invest!  Be WELL 'n ALL be SAFE!
                            > >
                            > > Ms. RA
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > > Magnets are not a source of energy. You got sucked into a perpetual
                            > > > motion scam. It will not work.
                            > > >
                            > > > On 12/1/2012 7:20 PM, geezergdad wrote:
                            > > >>
                            > > >> Hello,I'm sorry if you thought i was going to keep you guessing.The
                            > > >> idea we have is to have a magnet turbine lay facing up.Glue a round
                            > > >> disk of wood to behind the back magnet.Add magnet to the wood.Make
                            > > >> sure those magnets don't interfere with the magnets on the steel disk.
                            > > >> Have a strong opposing magnet close to the magnets on the disk to
                            > > >> cause it to spin.This part of it ,I've been playing with.This magnet
                            > > >> would be secured.I'll have it all drawn out later. The city isn't
                            > > >> going to let me have a big turbine on my property. What do you
                            > > >> think.Jim Lee
                            > > >>
                            > > >> --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com <mailto:axialflux%40yahoogroups.com>,
                            > > >> KK4HFJ <solar@> wrote:
                            > > >> >
                            > > >> > Don't keep us guessing, how will you spin the alternator?
                            > > >> >
                            > > >> >
                            > > >> > On 12/1/2012 5:08 AM, geezergdad wrote:
                            > > >> > >
                            > > >> > > Hello,In the city i live in,i'm not allowed to have a big turbine.I
                            > > >> > > live in Bullhead City,Arizona.Anyway i dont plan on running a magnet
                            > > >> > > turbine with wind,i'm looking at an alterintive method.In winter i
                            > > >> > > average about 15KW a day.I can place a turbine without to my home
                            > > >> > > without the city even seening it.Anyway thank you for responding
                            > > >> back
                            > > >> > > to me John.
                            > > >> > >
                            > > >> >
                            > > >> > --
                            > > >> > Steve, KK4HFJ
                            > > >> >
                            > > >> > http://www.green-trust.org
                            > > >> >
                            > > >> > http://www.essnmag.com
                            > > >> >
                            > > >> > http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
                            > > >> >
                            > > >>
                            > > >>
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > --
                            > > > Steve, KK4HFJ
                            > > >
                            > > > http://www.green-trust.org
                            > > >
                            > > > http://www.essnmag.com
                            > > >
                            > > > http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > http://www.motherearthnews.com/subscribe/subscribe.aspx?promocode=EMEAD9Z4Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                          • b_q_davis
                            Yeah that is a fun video. I am not even sure why he used the large magnet. If you look carefully at the video, when he spun it by hand, it accelerated after
                            Message 13 of 30 , Dec 2, 2012
                            View Source
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Yeah that is a fun video. I am not even sure why he used the large magnet. If you look carefully at the video, when he spun it by hand, it accelerated after he let go and he had to stop it with his hand. I think his motor is powered but just needs a push to start.

                              Anyway I think we are getting off topic here. I am sure we would all prefer to use magic magnetic power over wind power if we could, but we cant. But if anyone likes to send money for plans like this, I am sure I could make something even more imaginative using Zero Point Modules or something.

                              Byron

                              --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, ron ohler <ohler_ron@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi,
                              > Oh Boy. Total hoax. Hope they didn't get any of your money.
                              > There must be power wires to the motor hidden in the putty passing through to battery's under the white mounting board. Newtons law - equal and opposite reactions. No way for a magnet to pull toward another harder than it repels from it. Or in the opposite - be repelled harder than it is attracted. By the forces of nature the disk will not rotate. In fact - it will be harder to do so.
                              > You need to add an external force or energy for there to be motion induced.
                              > The nearest thing to what they show is a stepper motor. Try turning one of those and you will feel the cogging effect of the magnetic poles as they pass each other to the next place where the magnetic forces balance.
                              > Best,
                              > RonO
                              > --- On Sun, 12/2/12, geezergdad <geezergdad@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > From: geezergdad <geezergdad@...>
                              > Subject: [axialflux] Re: More energy in for LESS energy out WAS: N50 Magnets-- now windresource in Bullhead City
                              > To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Sunday, December 2, 2012, 10:13 AM
                              >
                              > Also there is where i go my idea. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3427891/free_energy_how_to_build_magnetic_power_generator_for_home/
                              >
                              > --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, dulca@ wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Geezergdad
                              > >
                              > > Maybe this is - will be a less obtrusive - confrontational way of saying
                              > > AND explaining why it will not 'work'.
                              > >
                              > > I'm sure you understand energy is required to overcome the weight of the
                              > > rotating portion, plus now the added weight of the magnets you propose to
                              > > use, plus energy to overcome inertia, as well as energy to overcome
                              > > friction introduced by the bearings etc.
                              > >
                              > > Any power source (generator) requires more energy - BTU to produce the
                              > > electricity than the generator can produce.  i.e. a gas/diesel driven
                              > > engine spinning a generator requires MORE HP to run the fuel powered
                              > > engine (source of rotation) than the alternator puts out.  For example 13
                              > > HP engine to produce say 9 HP of electric energy.
                              > >
                              > > Therefore, the driving (repulsion) magnets HAVE TO BE BIGGER & HEAVIER
                              > > than those creating the electrical energy so friction - weight - inertia
                              > > cannot be overcome solely by/with larger magnets repelling equally LARGE
                              > > magnets on the rotating portion.
                              > >
                              > > Wouldn't it be NICE if you could use 9,700 Gauss magnets to drive say
                              > > smaller-lighter 3,500 Gauss magnets producing say 1,500 W!  You'd say /
                              > > think, shucks I can buy magnets that BIG, but when you add up the minimum
                              > > load you wish to power, you will, DARN IT, always be producing less than
                              > > you 'need' and by the time you've found, engineered a sufficiently LARGE
                              > > magnetic repulsion device to 'power' a sufficiently large alternator to
                              > > meet your load demand, the WHOLE thing, not even counting electrical
                              > > switch gear, over current protection, provision to cooling, space, etc.
                              > > you will have spent MORE than you 'saved'.
                              > >
                              > > Thus Steve called it a/the perpetual motion machine.  So far no one has
                              > > come up with a way to use less energy in than the energy being output!
                              > > Hydroelectric was thought (at first) to be a free source of power.  Ask
                              > > Westinghouse, Edison, and Tesla!  They found out for every 1 BTU created,
                              > > it took at least .5 BTU MORE to produce every single BTU!  When the
                              > > Niagara Generating Facility was created, labor was CHEAP, but even back
                              > > then to cost to produce the very first watt, not to mention Kilowatt was
                              > > staggering!
                              > >
                              > > GOOD luck and if you can SOLVE/resolve the greater energy in vs. less
                              > > energy out problem, PLEASE let me know, you might convince me and I might
                              > > invest!  Be WELL 'n ALL be SAFE!
                              > >
                              > > Ms. RA
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > > Magnets are not a source of energy. You got sucked into a perpetual
                              > > > motion scam. It will not work.
                              > > >
                              > > > On 12/1/2012 7:20 PM, geezergdad wrote:
                              > > >>
                              > > >> Hello,I'm sorry if you thought i was going to keep you guessing.The
                              > > >> idea we have is to have a magnet turbine lay facing up.Glue a round
                              > > >> disk of wood to behind the back magnet.Add magnet to the wood.Make
                              > > >> sure those magnets don't interfere with the magnets on the steel disk.
                              > > >> Have a strong opposing magnet close to the magnets on the disk to
                              > > >> cause it to spin.This part of it ,I've been playing with.This magnet
                              > > >> would be secured.I'll have it all drawn out later. The city isn't
                              > > >> going to let me have a big turbine on my property. What do you
                              > > >> think.Jim Lee
                              > > >>
                              > > >> --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com <mailto:axialflux%40yahoogroups.com>,
                              > > >> KK4HFJ <solar@> wrote:
                              > > >> >
                              > > >> > Don't keep us guessing, how will you spin the alternator?
                              > > >> >
                              > > >> >
                              > > >> > On 12/1/2012 5:08 AM, geezergdad wrote:
                              > > >> > >
                              > > >> > > Hello,In the city i live in,i'm not allowed to have a big turbine.I
                              > > >> > > live in Bullhead City,Arizona.Anyway i dont plan on running a magnet
                              > > >> > > turbine with wind,i'm looking at an alterintive method.In winter i
                              > > >> > > average about 15KW a day.I can place a turbine without to my home
                              > > >> > > without the city even seening it.Anyway thank you for responding
                              > > >> back
                              > > >> > > to me John.
                              > > >> > >
                              > > >> >
                              > > >> > --
                              > > >> > Steve, KK4HFJ
                              > > >> >
                              > > >> > http://www.green-trust.org
                              > > >> >
                              > > >> > http://www.essnmag.com
                              > > >> >
                              > > >> > http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
                              > > >> >
                              > > >>
                              > > >>
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > --
                              > > > Steve, KK4HFJ
                              > > >
                              > > > http://www.green-trust.org
                              > > >
                              > > > http://www.essnmag.com
                              > > >
                              > > > http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > http://www.motherearthnews.com/subscribe/subscribe.aspx?promocode=EMEAD9Z4Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                            • KK4HFJ
                              The main choices are wind, water, engine, pedal, solar stirling (a type of engine). ... -- Steve, KK4HFJ http://www.green-trust.org http://www.essnmag.com
                              Message 14 of 30 , Dec 2, 2012
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                                The main choices are wind, water, engine, pedal, solar stirling (a type of engine).

                                On 12/2/2012 2:23 PM, geezergdad wrote:
                                 

                                I never bought anything from them & had no intention to do so.The only thing that caught my interest, was the idea of spinning a disk with a magnet.Not anything else.Like i said,in Bullhead City,AZ,where i live,I'm not allowed to have a big wind turbine on my property.So i was looking for another way to turn the magnet turbine on this group site without fan blades.Anyone out there have an idea how to.Jim

                                --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, ron ohler <ohler_ron@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi,
                                > Oh Boy. Total hoax. Hope they didn't get any of your money.
                                > There must be power wires to the motor hidden in the putty passing through to battery's under the white mounting board. Newtons law - equal and opposite reactions. No way for a magnet to pull toward another harder than it repels from it. Or in the opposite - be repelled harder than it is attracted. By the forces of nature the disk will not rotate. In fact - it will be harder to do so.
                                > You need to add an external force or energy for there to be motion induced.
                                > The nearest thing to what they show is a stepper motor. Try turning one of those and you will feel the cogging effect of the magnetic poles as they pass each other to the next place where the magnetic forces balance.
                                > Best,
                                > RonO
                                > --- On Sun, 12/2/12, geezergdad <geezergdad@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > From: geezergdad <geezergdad@...>
                                > Subject: [axialflux] Re: More energy in for LESS energy out WAS: N50 Magnets-- now windresource in Bullhead City
                                > To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                                > Date: Sunday, December 2, 2012, 10:13 AM
                                >
                                > Also there is where i go my idea. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3427891/free_energy_how_to_build_magnetic_power_generator_for_home/
                                >
                                > --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, dulca@ wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Geezergdad
                                > >
                                > > Maybe this is - will be a less obtrusive - confrontational way of saying
                                > > AND explaining why it will not 'work'.
                                > >
                                > > I'm sure you understand energy is required to overcome the weight of the
                                > > rotating portion, plus now the added weight of the magnets you propose to
                                > > use, plus energy to overcome inertia, as well as energy to overcome
                                > > friction introduced by the bearings etc.
                                > >
                                > > Any power source (generator) requires more energy - BTU to produce the
                                > > electricity than the generator can produce.  i.e. a gas/diesel driven
                                > > engine spinning a generator requires MORE HP to run the fuel powered
                                > > engine (source of rotation) than the alternator puts out.  For example 13
                                > > HP engine to produce say 9 HP of electric energy.
                                > >
                                > > Therefore, the driving (repulsion) magnets HAVE TO BE BIGGER & HEAVIER
                                > > than those creating the electrical energy so friction - weight - inertia
                                > > cannot be overcome solely by/with larger magnets repelling equally LARGE
                                > > magnets on the rotating portion.
                                > >
                                > > Wouldn't it be NICE if you could use 9,700 Gauss magnets to drive say
                                > > smaller-lighter 3,500 Gauss magnets producing say 1,500 W!  You'd say /
                                > > think, shucks I can buy magnets that BIG, but when you add up the minimum
                                > > load you wish to power, you will, DARN IT, always be producing less than
                                > > you 'need' and by the time you've found, engineered a sufficiently LARGE
                                > > magnetic repulsion device to 'power' a sufficiently large alternator to
                                > > meet your load demand, the WHOLE thing, not even counting electrical
                                > > switch gear, over current protection, provision to cooling, space, etc.
                                > > you will have spent MORE than you 'saved'.
                                > >
                                > > Thus Steve called it a/the perpetual motion machine.  So far no one has
                                > > come up with a way to use less energy in than the energy being output!
                                > > Hydroelectric was thought (at first) to be a free source of power.  Ask
                                > > Westinghouse, Edison, and Tesla!  They found out for every 1 BTU created,
                                > > it took at least .5 BTU MORE to produce every single BTU!  When the
                                > > Niagara Generating Facility was created, labor was CHEAP, but even back
                                > > then to cost to produce the very first watt, not to mention Kilowatt was
                                > > staggering!
                                > >
                                > > GOOD luck and if you can SOLVE/resolve the greater energy in vs. less
                                > > energy out problem, PLEASE let me know, you might convince me and I might
                                > > invest!  Be WELL 'n ALL be SAFE!
                                > >
                                > > Ms. RA
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > > Magnets are not a source of energy. You got sucked into a perpetual
                                > > > motion scam. It will not work.
                                > > >
                                > > > On 12/1/2012 7:20 PM, geezergdad wrote:
                                > > >>
                                > > >> Hello,I'm sorry if you thought i was going to keep you guessing.The
                                > > >> idea we have is to have a magnet turbine lay facing up.Glue a round
                                > > >> disk of wood to behind the back magnet.Add magnet to the wood.Make
                                > > >> sure those magnets don't interfere with the magnets on the steel disk.
                                > > >> Have a strong opposing magnet close to the magnets on the disk to
                                > > >> cause it to spin.This part of it ,I've been playing with.This magnet
                                > > >> would be secured.I'll have it all drawn out later. The city isn't
                                > > >> going to let me have a big turbine on my property. What do you
                                > > >> think.Jim Lee
                                > > >>
                                > > >> --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com <mailto:axialflux%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                > > >> KK4HFJ <solar@> wrote:
                                > > >> >
                                > > >> > Don't keep us guessing, how will you spin the alternator?
                                > > >> >
                                > > >> >
                                > > >> > On 12/1/2012 5:08 AM, geezergdad wrote:
                                > > >> > >
                                > > >> > > Hello,In the city i live in,i'm not allowed to have a big turbine.I
                                > > >> > > live in Bullhead City,Arizona.Anyway i dont plan on running a magnet
                                > > >> > > turbine with wind,i'm looking at an alterintive method.In winter i
                                > > >> > > average about 15KW a day.I can place a turbine without to my home
                                > > >> > > without the city even seening it.Anyway thank you for responding
                                > > >> back
                                > > >> > > to me John.
                                > > >> > >
                                > > >> >
                                > > >> > --
                                > > >> > Steve, KK4HFJ
                                > > >> >
                                > > >> > http://www.green-trust.org
                                > > >> >
                                > > >> > http://www.essnmag.com
                                > > >> >
                                > > >> > http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
                                > > >> >
                                > > >>
                                > > >>
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > --
                                > > > Steve, KK4HFJ
                                > > >
                                > > > http://www.green-trust.org
                                > > >
                                > > > http://www.essnmag.com
                                > > >
                                > > > http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > http://www.motherearthnews.com/subscribe/subscribe.aspx?promocode=EMEAD9Z4Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >



                                -- 
                                Steve, KK4HFJ
                                
                                http://www.green-trust.org
                                
                                http://www.essnmag.com
                                
                                http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
                              • b_q_davis
                                Well if you can t have a big wind turbine, can you have a bunch of little ones? Solar Panels? Geothermal? But to stay on topic how about writing what the
                                Message 15 of 30 , Dec 2, 2012
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                                  Well if you can't have a big wind turbine, can you have a bunch of little ones? Solar Panels? Geothermal? But to stay on topic how about writing what the code or law is that is stopping you from having a turbine. Maybe a way to get around it and still do wind power.

                                  I have yet to see a good solar stirling actually work except for large scale. I would like to see one, I just haven't found one.

                                  Byron

                                  --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, KK4HFJ <solar@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > The main choices are wind, water, engine, pedal, solar stirling (a type
                                  > of engine).
                                  >
                                  > On 12/2/2012 2:23 PM, geezergdad wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > I never bought anything from them & had no intention to do so.The only
                                  > > thing that caught my interest, was the idea of spinning a disk with a
                                  > > magnet.Not anything else.Like i said,in Bullhead City,AZ,where i
                                  > > live,I'm not allowed to have a big wind turbine on my property.So i
                                  > > was looking for another way to turn the magnet turbine on this group
                                  > > site without fan blades.Anyone out there have an idea how to.Jim
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com <mailto:axialflux%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                  > > ron ohler <ohler_ron@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Hi,
                                  > > > Oh Boy. Total hoax. Hope they didn't get any of your money.
                                  > > > There must be power wires to the motor hidden in the putty passing
                                  > > through to battery's under the white mounting board. Newtons law -
                                  > > equal and opposite reactions. No way for a magnet to pull toward
                                  > > another harder than it repels from it. Or in the opposite - be
                                  > > repelled harder than it is attracted. By the forces of nature the disk
                                  > > will not rotate. In fact - it will be harder to do so.
                                  > > > You need to add an external force or energy for there to be motion
                                  > > induced.
                                  > > > The nearest thing to what they show is a stepper motor. Try turning
                                  > > one of those and you will feel the cogging effect of the magnetic
                                  > > poles as they pass each other to the next place where the magnetic
                                  > > forces balance.
                                  > > > Best,
                                  > > > RonO
                                  > > > --- On Sun, 12/2/12, geezergdad <geezergdad@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > From: geezergdad <geezergdad@>
                                  > > > Subject: [axialflux] Re: More energy in for LESS energy out WAS: N50
                                  > > Magnets-- now windresource in Bullhead City
                                  > > > To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com <mailto:axialflux%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > > > Date: Sunday, December 2, 2012, 10:13 AM
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Also there is where i go my idea.
                                  > > http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3427891/free_energy_how_to_build_magnetic_power_generator_for_home/
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > <mailto:axialflux%40yahoogroups.com>, dulca@ wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Geezergdad
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Maybe this is - will be a less obtrusive - confrontational way of
                                  > > saying
                                  > > > > AND explaining why it will not 'work'.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I'm sure you understand energy is required to overcome the weight
                                  > > of the
                                  > > > > rotating portion, plus now the added weight of the magnets you
                                  > > propose to
                                  > > > > use, plus energy to overcome inertia, as well as energy to overcome
                                  > > > > friction introduced by the bearings etc.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Any power source (generator) requires more energy - BTU to produce the
                                  > > > > electricity than the generator can produce. i.e. a gas/diesel driven
                                  > > > > engine spinning a generator requires MORE HP to run the fuel powered
                                  > > > > engine (source of rotation) than the alternator puts out. For
                                  > > example 13
                                  > > > > HP engine to produce say 9 HP of electric energy.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Therefore, the driving (repulsion) magnets HAVE TO BE BIGGER & HEAVIER
                                  > > > > than those creating the electrical energy so friction - weight -
                                  > > inertia
                                  > > > > cannot be overcome solely by/with larger magnets repelling equally
                                  > > LARGE
                                  > > > > magnets on the rotating portion.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Wouldn't it be NICE if you could use 9,700 Gauss magnets to drive say
                                  > > > > smaller-lighter 3,500 Gauss magnets producing say 1,500 W! You'd
                                  > > say /
                                  > > > > think, shucks I can buy magnets that BIG, but when you add up the
                                  > > minimum
                                  > > > > load you wish to power, you will, DARN IT, always be producing
                                  > > less than
                                  > > > > you 'need' and by the time you've found, engineered a sufficiently
                                  > > LARGE
                                  > > > > magnetic repulsion device to 'power' a sufficiently large
                                  > > alternator to
                                  > > > > meet your load demand, the WHOLE thing, not even counting electrical
                                  > > > > switch gear, over current protection, provision to cooling, space,
                                  > > etc.
                                  > > > > you will have spent MORE than you 'saved'.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Thus Steve called it a/the perpetual motion machine. So far no
                                  > > one has
                                  > > > > come up with a way to use less energy in than the energy being
                                  > > output!
                                  > > > > Hydroelectric was thought (at first) to be a free source of
                                  > > power. Ask
                                  > > > > Westinghouse, Edison, and Tesla! They found out for every 1 BTU
                                  > > created,
                                  > > > > it took at least .5 BTU MORE to produce every single BTU! When the
                                  > > > > Niagara Generating Facility was created, labor was CHEAP, but even
                                  > > back
                                  > > > > then to cost to produce the very first watt, not to mention
                                  > > Kilowatt was
                                  > > > > staggering!
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > GOOD luck and if you can SOLVE/resolve the greater energy in vs. less
                                  > > > > energy out problem, PLEASE let me know, you might convince me and
                                  > > I might
                                  > > > > invest! Be WELL 'n ALL be SAFE!
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Ms. RA
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > > Magnets are not a source of energy. You got sucked into a perpetual
                                  > > > > > motion scam. It will not work.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > On 12/1/2012 7:20 PM, geezergdad wrote:
                                  > > > > >>
                                  > > > > >> Hello,I'm sorry if you thought i was going to keep you guessing.The
                                  > > > > >> idea we have is to have a magnet turbine lay facing up.Glue a round
                                  > > > > >> disk of wood to behind the back magnet.Add magnet to the wood.Make
                                  > > > > >> sure those magnets don't interfere with the magnets on the
                                  > > steel disk.
                                  > > > > >> Have a strong opposing magnet close to the magnets on the disk to
                                  > > > > >> cause it to spin.This part of it ,I've been playing with.This
                                  > > magnet
                                  > > > > >> would be secured.I'll have it all drawn out later. The city isn't
                                  > > > > >> going to let me have a big turbine on my property. What do you
                                  > > > > >> think.Jim Lee
                                  > > > > >>
                                  > > > > >> --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > <mailto:axialflux%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:axialflux%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                  > > > > >> KK4HFJ <solar@> wrote:
                                  > > > > >> >
                                  > > > > >> > Don't keep us guessing, how will you spin the alternator?
                                  > > > > >> >
                                  > > > > >> >
                                  > > > > >> > On 12/1/2012 5:08 AM, geezergdad wrote:
                                  > > > > >> > >
                                  > > > > >> > > Hello,In the city i live in,i'm not allowed to have a big
                                  > > turbine.I
                                  > > > > >> > > live in Bullhead City,Arizona.Anyway i dont plan on running
                                  > > a magnet
                                  > > > > >> > > turbine with wind,i'm looking at an alterintive method.In
                                  > > winter i
                                  > > > > >> > > average about 15KW a day.I can place a turbine without to
                                  > > my home
                                  > > > > >> > > without the city even seening it.Anyway thank you for
                                  > > responding
                                  > > > > >> back
                                  > > > > >> > > to me John.
                                  > > > > >> > >
                                  > > > > >> >
                                  > > > > >> > --
                                  > > > > >> > Steve, KK4HFJ
                                  > > > > >> >
                                  > > > > >> > http://www.green-trust.org
                                  > > > > >> >
                                  > > > > >> > http://www.essnmag.com
                                  > > > > >> >
                                  > > > > >> > http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
                                  > > > > >> >
                                  > > > > >>
                                  > > > > >>
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > --
                                  > > > > > Steve, KK4HFJ
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > http://www.green-trust.org
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > http://www.essnmag.com
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > ------------------------------------
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > http://www.motherearthnews.com/subscribe/subscribe.aspx?promocode=EMEAD9Z4Yahoo!
                                  > > Groups Links
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > Steve, KK4HFJ
                                  >
                                  > http://www.green-trust.org
                                  >
                                  > http://www.essnmag.com
                                  >
                                  > http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com
                                  >
                                • myrontokachi
                                  Does your town allow vertical axis turbines? They are used at lower heights and might make your project fall within city guidelines. They create a different
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Dec 2, 2012
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                                    Does your town allow vertical axis turbines? They are used at lower heights and might make your project fall within city guidelines. They create a different set of problems that horizontal axis turbines but they are better than nothing.

                                    example:

                                    http://www.windstuffnow.com/main/vawt.htm

                                    have fun,

                                    Myron Wright
                                  • geezergdad
                                    Looks good,thank you sir.
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Dec 2, 2012
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                                      Looks good,thank you sir.
                                      --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "myrontokachi" <myrontokachi@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Does your town allow vertical axis turbines? They are used at lower heights and might make your project fall within city guidelines. They create a different set of problems that horizontal axis turbines but they are better than nothing.
                                      >
                                      > example:
                                      >
                                      > http://www.windstuffnow.com/main/vawt.htm
                                      >
                                      > have fun,
                                      >
                                      > Myron Wright
                                      >
                                    • geezergdad
                                      What kind of problems would that be.
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Dec 3, 2012
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                                        What kind of problems would that be.
                                        --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "myrontokachi" <myrontokachi@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Does your town allow vertical axis turbines? They are used at lower heights and might make your project fall within city guidelines. They create a different set of problems that horizontal axis turbines but they are better than nothing.
                                        >
                                        > example:
                                        >
                                        > http://www.windstuffnow.com/main/vawt.htm
                                        >
                                        > have fun,
                                        >
                                        > Myron Wright
                                        >
                                      • The Dragon
                                        Whilst serious full-sized wind mills are often regulated, they ve oft times left loop-holes for garden wind-windlers , and hobby sized windmills. Perhaps
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Dec 3, 2012
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                                          Whilst 'serious' 'full-sized' wind mills are often regulated,
                                          they've oft times left loop-holes for garden 'wind-windlers',
                                          and hobby sized windmills. Perhaps those sorta loopholes
                                          can be taken advantage of. Instead of a big windmill,
                                          have a whole flock of little garden & lawn sized ones.
                                          The Dragon



                                          --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "myrontokachi" <myrontokachi@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Does your town allow vertical axis turbines? They are used at lower heights and might make your project fall within city guidelines. They create a different set of problems that horizontal axis turbines but they are better than nothing.
                                          >
                                          > example:
                                          >
                                          > http://www.windstuffnow.com/main/vawt.htm
                                          >
                                          > have fun,
                                          >
                                          > Myron Wright
                                          >
                                        • The Dragon
                                          A good idea! Diversification is NOT just for financial issues! It serves us well when dealing with alternative energy sourcing. As far as getting around the
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Dec 3, 2012
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                                            A good idea!
                                            Diversification is NOT just for financial issues!
                                            It serves us well when dealing with alternative energy sourcing.
                                            As far as getting around the laws...
                                            call it something else.
                                            You can use the tower to mount an antenna,
                                            or to mount bird houses, or bird feeders, or solar panels.
                                            Anything that is acceptable & allowed under the local law is 'game'!
                                            Wiring that can be used to power lights to make the windmill
                                            look pretty at night, can also be used to bring power back
                                            from it suripiciously to charge your batterys.
                                            I seem to remember someone mentioning somewhere...
                                            about making a windmill into a 'prayer-wheel' by adding
                                            the millners prayer to the windmill.
                                            The Dragon



                                            --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "b_q_davis" <bqdavis@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Well if you can't have a big wind turbine, can you have a bunch of little ones? Solar Panels? Geothermal? But to stay on topic how about writing what the code or law is that is stopping you from having a turbine. Maybe a way to get around it and still do wind power.
                                            >
                                            > I have yet to see a good solar stirling actually work except for large scale. I would like to see one, I just haven't found one.
                                            >
                                            > Byron
                                            >
                                          • myrontokachi
                                            ... Vertical axis turbines don t rotate as fast as horizontal machines but they rotate at lower wind speeds. Myron Wright
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Dec 4, 2012
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                                              --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "geezergdad" <geezergdad@...> wrote:
                                              > What kind of problems would that be.
                                              >

                                              Vertical axis turbines don't rotate as fast as horizontal machines but they rotate at lower wind speeds.

                                              Myron Wright
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