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Multiple stator design

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  • borrellimd
    I was wondering if there has been any testing of a multiple stator and rotor Axial Flux machine. Basicly just double stacking so you would have a rotor then a
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 11, 2010
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      I was wondering if there has been any testing of a multiple stator and rotor Axial Flux machine. Basicly just double stacking so you would have a rotor then a stator then the second rotor, this disk would have magnets on both sides, then another stator and another rotor. I would expect you would need more power in to get more out, but just thinking.

      I wonder how it would compare to other designs for more power like just a bigger diameter with more magnets and more coils. With this design your diameter could stay small, that would be one advantage.

      I wish I had a lab, and money, to experiment.

      Any comments?
    • bbgmnn@aol.com
      I am in the process of building my first geneator so I m no expert LOL but I think you will get more power but not twice the power because you essentially have
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 12, 2010
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        I am in the process of building my first geneator so I'm no expert LOL but I think you will get more power but not twice the power because you essentially have 1 1/2 generators. you would need another rotor on the other side of the stator. The bigger diameter generator is dual rotors for all coils.



        -----Original Message-----
        From: borrellimd <annrkey2012@...>
        To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sun, Jul 11, 2010 11:32 pm
        Subject: [axialflux] Multiple stator design

         
        I was wondering if there has been any testing of a multiple stator and rotor Axial Flux machine. Basicly just double stacking so you would have a rotor then a stator then the second rotor, this disk would have magnets on both sides, then another stator and another rotor. I would expect you would need more power in to get more out, but just thinking.

        I wonder how it would compare to other designs for more power like just a bigger diameter with more magnets and more coils. With this design your diameter could stay small, that would be one advantage.

        I wish I had a lab, and money, to experiment.

        Any comments?

      • john.p.sherman@att.net
        Multiple rotor/stators works to keep diameter down but a more efficient use of your magnets is to keep to two rotors and one stator. Let the diameter increase
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 12, 2010
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          Multiple rotor/stators works to keep diameter down but a more efficient use of your magnets is to keep to two rotors and one stator.  Let the diameter increase to give you greater speed of the magnet pairs past each coil.  With greater diameter you get greater magnet speed at the same rpm and greater power out.  Of course diameter is a major issue with a windgen.

           

          John Sherman

        • sanjeev rao
          Greetings team in a factory where i am working, there is a 25hp motor runs for 8 hours continously, my thoughts are if we connect a extra drive and connect the
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 12, 2010
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            Greetings team

            in a factory where i am working, there is a 25hp motor runs for 8 hours continously, my thoughts are if we connect a extra drive and connect the axial flux generator to produce some amount of electricity (say 5hp output) will it cause more load to the device? i am not able to figure out the loss occuring because of doing this, can someone out help me howto go about?



          • bbgmnn@aol.com
            Unfortunatly you would get a net loss due to inefficiency of the motor and generator. The axial flux generator is more efficient than tradiditional generators
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 13, 2010
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              Unfortunatly you would get a net loss due to inefficiency of the motor and generator. The axial flux generator is more efficient than tradiditional generators but there is an inherent loss of power in all machines Hopefully there is enough wind to generate our electricity in spite of the losses. There are many people trying to produce more power than consumed.
              Most think they are crazy but with the availability of rare earth magnets and ultra capacitors and the exchange of ideas on the internet, We are getting closer. BTW electrical power is measured in Watts not Hp
              good luck
               


              -----Original Message-----
              From: sanjeev rao <sosweet_san@...>
              To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Mon, Jul 12, 2010 11:52 pm
              Subject: [axialflux] 20 thousand rpm 25 hp motor

               
              Greetings team

              in a factory where i am working, there is a 25hp motor runs for 8 hours continously, my thoughts are if we connect a extra drive and connect the axial flux generator to produce some amount of electricity (say 5hp output) will it cause more load to the device? i am not able to figure out the loss occuring because of doing this, can someone out help me howto go about?



            • Dan Fink
              It would be a poor use of your magnet and copper dollar. For example, if you doubled up with 2 stators, twice the magnets, and 3 magnet rotors, you d get twice
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 13, 2010
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                It would be a poor use of your magnet and copper dollar.

                For example, if you doubled up with 2 stators, twice the magnets, and 3 magnet rotors, you'd get twice the power (and of course would need to double the swept area of the turbine).

                If you instead used those same extra magnets and copper to build a larger diameter alternator, you'd get *four* times the power at any given RPM, because each coil would be producing twice a much power since twice as many magnets would be going by twice as many coils each revolution.

                DAN FINK
                co-author, "Homebrew Wind Power"



                I was wondering if there has been any testing of a multiple stator and rotor Axial Flux machine. Basicly just double stacking so you would have a rotor then a stator then the second rotor, this disk would have magnets on both sides, then another stator and another rotor. I would expect you would need more power in to get more out, but just thinking.

                I wonder how it would compare to other designs for more power like just a bigger diameter with more magnets and more coils. With this design your diameter could stay small, that would be one advantage.

                I wish I had a lab, and money, to experiment.

                Any comments?
              • sanjeev rao
                just curious to know how they might have done things here? http://www.cleanenergytechnologies.net/industrial/industrial_500kw.html ... From: Dan Fink
                Message 7 of 17 , Jul 13, 2010
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                  just curious to know

                  how they might have done things here?

                  http://www.cleanenergytechnologies.net/industrial/industrial_500kw.html



                  --- On Tue, 7/13/10, Dan Fink <danbob88@...> wrote:

                  From: Dan Fink <danbob88@...>
                  Subject: [axialflux] Re: Multiple stator design
                  To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Tuesday, July 13, 2010, 11:03 PM

                   

                  It would be a poor use of your magnet and copper dollar.

                  For example, if you doubled up with 2 stators, twice the magnets, and 3 magnet rotors, you'd get twice the power (and of course would need to double the swept area of the turbine).

                  If you instead used those same extra magnets and copper to build a larger diameter alternator, you'd get *four* times the power at any given RPM, because each coil would be producing twice a much power since twice as many magnets would be going by twice as many coils each revolution.

                  DAN FINK
                  co-author, "Homebrew Wind Power"



                  I was wondering if there has been any testing of a multiple stator and rotor Axial Flux machine. Basicly just double stacking so you would have a rotor then a stator then the second rotor, this disk would have magnets on both sides, then another stator and another rotor. I would expect you would need more power in to get more out, but just thinking.

                  I wonder how it would compare to other designs for more power like just a bigger diameter with more magnets and more coils. With this design your diameter could stay small, that would be one advantage.

                  I wish I had a lab, and money, to experiment.

                  Any comments?


                • Steve Spence
                  Yes you will add additional load to the 25hp motor. Figure whatever load you are powering with the axial flux, plus 30% that should cover it. Why not use the
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jul 13, 2010
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                    Yes you will add additional load to the 25hp motor. Figure whatever load
                    you are powering with the axial flux, plus 30% that should cover it. Why
                    not use the electricity directly?
                    Why not use the electricity directly? You will gain 20% efficiency that
                    way. There's no gain to converting electric into mechanical and back
                    into electrical.


                    Steve Spence
                    Renewable energy and self sufficiency
                    http://www.green-trust.org
                    http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/



                    On 07/12/2010 11:52 PM, sanjeev rao wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Greetings team
                    >
                    > in a factory where i am working, there is a 25hp motor runs for 8 hours
                    > continously, my thoughts are if we connect a extra drive and connect the
                    > axial flux generator to produce some amount of electricity (say 5hp
                    > output) will it cause more load to the device? i am not able to figure
                    > out the loss occuring because of doing this, can someone out help me
                    > howto go about?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • borrellimd
                    Thanks Dan, That makes sense.
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jul 13, 2010
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                      Thanks Dan, That makes sense.

                      --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, Dan Fink <danbob88@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > It would be a poor use of your magnet and copper dollar.
                      >
                      > For example, if you doubled up with 2 stators, twice the magnets, and 3
                      > magnet rotors, you'd get twice the power (and of course would need to double
                      > the swept area of the turbine).
                      >
                      > If you instead used those same extra magnets and copper to build a larger
                      > diameter alternator, you'd get *four* times the power at any given RPM,
                      > because each coil would be producing twice a much power since twice as many
                      > magnets would be going by twice as many coils each revolution.
                      >
                      > DAN FINK
                      > co-author, "Homebrew Wind Power"
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I was wondering if there has been any testing of a multiple stator and rotor
                      > Axial Flux machine. Basicly just double stacking so you would have a rotor
                      > then a stator then the second rotor, this disk would have magnets on both
                      > sides, then another stator and another rotor. I would expect you would need
                      > more power in to get more out, but just thinking.
                      >
                      > I wonder how it would compare to other designs for more power like just a
                      > bigger diameter with more magnets and more coils. With this design your
                      > diameter could stay small, that would be one advantage.
                      >
                      > I wish I had a lab, and money, to experiment.
                      >
                      > Any comments?
                      >
                    • John Roberson
                      Well I cant stand it any longer Are you related to Christ Fink that worked for Honeywell? John Roberson ... From: Dan Fink Subject:
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jul 13, 2010
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                        Well I cant' stand it any longer
                        Are you related to Christ Fink that worked for Honeywell?
                        John Roberson

                        --- On Tue, 7/13/10, Dan Fink <danbob88@...> wrote:

                        From: Dan Fink <danbob88@...>
                        Subject: [axialflux] Re: Multiple stator design
                        To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Tuesday, July 13, 2010, 12:33 PM

                         

                        It would be a poor use of your magnet and copper dollar.

                        For example, if you doubled up with 2 stators, twice the magnets, and 3 magnet rotors, you'd get twice the power (and of course would need to double the swept area of the turbine).

                        If you instead used those same extra magnets and copper to build a larger diameter alternator, you'd get *four* times the power at any given RPM, because each coil would be producing twice a much power since twice as many magnets would be going by twice as many coils each revolution.

                        DAN FINK
                        co-author, "Homebrew Wind Power"



                        I was wondering if there has been any testing of a multiple stator and rotor Axial Flux machine. Basicly just double stacking so you would have a rotor then a stator then the second rotor, this disk would have magnets on both sides, then another stator and another rotor. I would expect you would need more power in to get more out, but just thinking.

                        I wonder how it would compare to other designs for more power like just a bigger diameter with more magnets and more coils. With this design your diameter could stay small, that would be one advantage.

                        I wish I had a lab, and money, to experiment.

                        Any comments?


                      • sanjeev rao
                        thnkx for the info steve but i am sorry if i didnt make it clear, already the shaft will be running and handling few devices to do its regular jobs. along with
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jul 14, 2010
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                          thnkx for the info steve

                          but i am sorry if i didnt make it clear, already the shaft will be running and handling few devices to do its regular jobs. along with that i thought of adding another drive and make this pmg to run



                          --- On Wed, 7/14/10, Steve Spence <sspence@...> wrote:

                          From: Steve Spence <sspence@...>
                          Subject: Re: [axialflux] 20 thousand rpm 25 hp motor
                          To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Wednesday, July 14, 2010, 3:46 AM

                          Yes you will add additional load to the 25hp motor. Figure whatever load
                          you are powering with the axial flux, plus 30% that should cover it. Why
                          not use the electricity directly?
                          Why not use the electricity directly? You will gain 20% efficiency that
                          way. There's no gain to converting electric into mechanical and back
                          into electrical.


                          Steve Spence
                          Renewable energy and self sufficiency
                          http://www.green-trust.org
                          http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/



                          On 07/12/2010 11:52 PM, sanjeev rao wrote:

                          >
                          > Greetings team
                          >
                          > in a factory where i am working, there is a 25hp motor runs for 8 hours
                          > continously, my thoughts are if we connect a extra drive and connect the
                          > axial flux generator to produce some amount of electricity (say 5hp
                          > output) will it cause more load to the device? i am not able to figure
                          > out the loss occuring because of doing this, can someone out help me
                          > howto go about?
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >


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                        • Steve Spence
                          That doesn t matter. You are still adding additional lods, and that energy has to be added. There s no unused capacity. Steve Spence Renewable energy and
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jul 14, 2010
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                            That doesn't matter. You are still adding additional lods, and that
                            energy has to be added. There's no "unused" capacity.

                            Steve Spence
                            Renewable energy and self sufficiency
                            http://www.green-trust.org
                            http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/



                            On 07/14/2010 05:13 AM, sanjeev rao wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > thnkx for the info steve
                            >
                            > but i am sorry if i didnt make it clear, already the shaft will be
                            > running and handling few devices to do its regular jobs. along with that
                            > i thought of adding another drive and make this pmg to run
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- On *Wed, 7/14/10, Steve Spence /<sspence@...>/* wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > From: Steve Spence <sspence@...>
                            > Subject: Re: [axialflux] 20 thousand rpm 25 hp motor
                            > To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                            > Date: Wednesday, July 14, 2010, 3:46 AM
                            >
                            > Yes you will add additional load to the 25hp motor. Figure whatever load
                            > you are powering with the axial flux, plus 30% that should cover it. Why
                            > not use the electricity directly?
                            > Why not use the electricity directly? You will gain 20% efficiency that
                            > way. There's no gain to converting electric into mechanical and back
                            > into electrical.
                            >
                            >
                            > Steve Spence
                            > Renewable energy and self sufficiency
                            > http://www.green-trust.org <http://www.green-trust.org>
                            > http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/
                            > <http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/>
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > On 07/12/2010 11:52 PM, sanjeev rao wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Greetings team
                            > >
                            > > in a factory where i am working, there is a 25hp motor runs for 8
                            > hours
                            > > continously, my thoughts are if we connect a extra drive and
                            > connect the
                            > > axial flux generator to produce some amount of electricity (say 5hp
                            > > output) will it cause more load to the device? i am not able to figure
                            > > out the loss occuring because of doing this, can someone out help me
                            > > howto go about?
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
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                          • sanjeev rao
                            fine, let me not proceed on this idea. i will have to figure out different methods on saving energy :D instead of 12,24,48DCV if there is a constant RPM would
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jul 16, 2010
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                              fine, let me not proceed on this idea.


                              i will have to figure out different methods on saving energy :D

                              instead of 12,24,48DCV if there is a constant RPM would it be possible for 240ACV (i raised this request pretty long back, but still could not figure out howto achieve it)



                              --- On Thu, 7/15/10, Steve Spence <sspence@...> wrote:

                              From: Steve Spence <sspence@...>
                              Subject: Re: [axialflux] 20 thousand rpm 25 hp motor
                              To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Thursday, July 15, 2010, 7:59 AM

                              That doesn't matter. You are still adding additional lods, and that
                              energy has to be added. There's no "unused" capacity.

                              Steve Spence
                              Renewable energy and self sufficiency
                              http://www.green-trust.org
                              http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/



                              On 07/14/2010 05:13 AM, sanjeev rao wrote:

                              >
                              > thnkx for the info steve
                              >
                              > but i am sorry if i didnt make it clear, already the shaft will be
                              > running and handling few devices to do its regular jobs. along with that
                              > i thought of adding another drive and make this pmg to run
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- On *Wed, 7/14/10, Steve Spence /<sspence@...>/* wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >     From: Steve Spence <sspence@...>
                              >     Subject: Re: [axialflux] 20 thousand rpm 25 hp motor
                              >     To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                              >     Date: Wednesday, July 14, 2010, 3:46 AM
                              >
                              >     Yes you will add additional load to the 25hp motor. Figure whatever load
                              >     you are powering with the axial flux, plus 30% that should cover it. Why
                              >     not use the electricity directly?
                              >     Why not use the electricity directly? You will gain 20% efficiency that
                              >     way. There's no gain to converting electric into mechanical and back
                              >     into electrical.
                              >
                              >
                              >     Steve Spence
                              >     Renewable energy and self sufficiency
                              >     http://www.green-trust.org <http://www.green-trust.org>
                              >     http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/
                              >     <http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >     On 07/12/2010 11:52 PM, sanjeev rao wrote:
                              >     >
                              >     >
                              >     > Greetings team
                              >     >
                              >     > in a factory where i am working, there is a 25hp motor runs for 8
                              >     hours
                              >     > continously, my thoughts are if we connect a extra drive and
                              >     connect the
                              >     > axial flux generator to produce some amount of electricity (say 5hp
                              >     > output) will it cause more load to the device? i am not able to figure
                              >     > out the loss occuring because of doing this, can someone out help me
                              >     > howto go about?
                              >     >
                              >     >
                              >     >
                              >     >
                              >
                              >
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                            • jerry freedomev
                                Hi Sanjev and All,           Yes you can make any voltage that way with the correct gen/alternator. It would be called a rotary converter if you
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jul 17, 2010
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                                  Hi Sanjev and All,

                                          Yes you can make any voltage that way with the correct gen/alternator. It would be called a rotary converter if you want to look it up.

                                 One can make single ph from 3ph too or replace an electronic inverter this way at an eff cost of 2-20% depending on motor/gen/alt quality. Best in larger sizes or if one needs the other voltage/phase for a short time.

                                Can be used to convert DC to grid power too.

                                           One way you might make the motor run my eff if it doesn't already have it is correcting the power factor/PF. You can use capacitors to do it. Ask your local big motor company or look up electric motor power factor online. Only a few % but over a yr can add up.

                                                                             Jerry Dycus

                                --- On Fri, 7/16/10, sanjeev rao <sosweet_san@...> wrote:

                                From: sanjeev rao <sosweet_san@...>
                                Subject: Re: [axialflux] 20 thousand rpm 25 hp motor
                                To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Friday, July 16, 2010, 10:56 PM



                                fine, let me not proceed on this idea.


                                i will have to figure out different methods on saving energy :D

                                instead of 12,24,48DCV if there is a constant RPM would it be possible for 240ACV (i raised this request pretty long back, but still could not figure out howto achieve it)




                              • Joe mijdtr
                                so DF says ... are we talking about coils and magnets a further distance from the shaft, thus perhaps needing more power or strength to fight lenz because of
                                Message 15 of 17 , Oct 11, 2010
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                                  so DF says
                                  > If you instead used those same extra magnets and copper to build a
                                  > larger diameter alternator,,,,,,


                                  are we talking about coils and magnets a further distance from the shaft, thus perhaps needing more power or strength to fight lenz because of leverage is extended?

                                  if so, will it require thicker steel disks for less flex (wobble)/ truer tracking of the rotor disks?

                                  i have thought of this only to have space for more windings, bigger coils, for 110v or more,

                                  my planned application of these generators: powered via hydro (water "fall" ect.) or powered via steam boiler to steam turbine or engine, fueled by hydrogen ( from alum/lye combination). then connect to the grid, thus eliminating the need for batteries. then receiving money from extra electricity produced.,

                                  hi,
                                  joe here, a new member of the group. good job steve,and the rest, on keeping the group going, and keeping your head while doing so. i have been reading the messages from the beginning and got to about message 100 or so to avoid asking any questions that have already been asked and answered.

                                  well i can see it will take a long time to catch up with 3000 posts.

                                  thinking perhaps any delay in getting my thoughts in on the forum might delay others from the benefit of another point of view, along with the possibility that i just cant keep my mouth shut i decided to post.

                                  so now doing some backtracking from newest mesgs, to oldest i hadda put some 2 pennys worth of jomama in to see ifn i get slapped. lol



                                  --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, John Roberson <jgroberson56@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Well I cant' stand it any longer
                                  >
                                  > Are you related to Christ Fink that worked for Honeywell?
                                  >
                                  > John Roberson
                                  >
                                  > --- On Tue, 7/13/10, Dan Fink <danbob88@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > From: Dan Fink <danbob88@...>
                                  > Subject: [axialflux] Re: Multiple stator design
                                  > To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Date: Tuesday, July 13, 2010, 12:33 PM
                                  >
                                  > It would be a poor use of your magnet and copper dollar.
                                  >
                                  > For
                                  > example, if you doubled up with 2 stators, twice the magnets, and 3
                                  > magnet rotors, you'd get twice the power (and of course would need to
                                  > double the swept area of the turbine).
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > If you instead used those same extra magnets and copper to build a
                                  > larger diameter alternator, you'd get *four* times the power at any
                                  > given RPM, because each coil would be producing twice a much power
                                  > since twice as many magnets would be going by twice as many coils each
                                  > revolution.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > DAN FINK
                                  > co-author, "Homebrew Wind Power"
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I was wondering if there has been any testing of a multiple stator and
                                  > rotor Axial Flux machine. Basicly just double stacking so you would
                                  > have a rotor then a stator then the second rotor, this disk would have
                                  > magnets on both sides, then another stator and another rotor. I would
                                  > expect you would need more power in to get more out, but just thinking.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I wonder how it would compare to other designs for more power like just
                                  > a bigger diameter with more magnets and more coils. With this design
                                  > your diameter could stay small, that would be one advantage.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I wish I had a lab, and money, to experiment.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Any comments?
                                  >
                                • Dan Fink
                                  Hi Joe; More info pasted in below...DAN FINK so DF says ... are we talking about coils and magnets a further distance from the shaft, thus perhaps needing more
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Oct 13, 2010
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                                    Hi Joe;

                                    More info pasted in below...DAN FINK

                                    so DF says
                                    > If you instead used those same extra magnets and copper to build a
                                    > larger diameter alternator,,,,,,

                                    are we talking about coils and magnets a further distance from the
                                    shaft, thus perhaps needing more power or strength to fight lenz
                                    because of leverage is extended?

                                    ------The larger diameter lets you use both more and larger magnets
                                    and coils. Leverage is not an issue, you simply need more power at the
                                    shaft to make more electrical output.

                                    if so, will it require thicker steel disks for less flex (wobble)/
                                    truer tracking of the rotor disks?

                                    -------Yes, though not so much because of wobble, just because more
                                    power input and output is involved.

                                    i have thought of this only to have space for more windings, bigger
                                    coils, for 110v or more,
                                    my planned application of these generators: powered via hydro (water
                                    "fall" ect.) or powered via steam boiler to steam turbine or engine,
                                    fueled by hydrogen ( from alum/lye combination). then connect to the
                                    grid, thus eliminating the need for batteries. then receiving money
                                    from extra electricity produced.,

                                    ------If you want to wind for a higher voltage (to use a direct
                                    grid-tie inverter and no battery bank, for example), the size of
                                    everything stays the same. You just wind each coil with more turns of
                                    smaller diameter wire, keeping the coil exactly the same size. Adding
                                    more magnets and more copper gives you more power output (assuming you
                                    have the extra power at the shaft to drive it), and also lets you get
                                    a lower cut-in RPM for whatever voltage you wind for.

                                    ---Have fun!
                                  • Joe mijdtr
                                    thank you, dan. you saved me from alot of self induced confusion. peace out, joe
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Oct 13, 2010
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                                      thank you, dan. you saved me from alot of self induced confusion.

                                      peace out,
                                      joe


                                      --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, Dan Fink <danbob88@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hi Joe;
                                      >
                                      > More info pasted in below...DAN FINK
                                      >
                                      > so DF says
                                      > > If you instead used those same extra magnets and copper to build a
                                      > > larger diameter alternator,,,,,,
                                      >
                                      > are we talking about coils and magnets a further distance from the
                                      > shaft, thus perhaps needing more power or strength to fight lenz
                                      > because of leverage is extended?
                                      >
                                      > ------The larger diameter lets you use both more and larger magnets
                                      > and coils. Leverage is not an issue, you simply need more power at the
                                      > shaft to make more electrical output.
                                      >
                                      > if so, will it require thicker steel disks for less flex (wobble)/
                                      > truer tracking of the rotor disks?
                                      >
                                      > -------Yes, though not so much because of wobble, just because more
                                      > power input and output is involved.
                                      >
                                      > i have thought of this only to have space for more windings, bigger
                                      > coils, for 110v or more,
                                      > my planned application of these generators: powered via hydro (water
                                      > "fall" ect.) or powered via steam boiler to steam turbine or engine,
                                      > fueled by hydrogen ( from alum/lye combination). then connect to the
                                      > grid, thus eliminating the need for batteries. then receiving money
                                      > from extra electricity produced.,
                                      >
                                      > ------If you want to wind for a higher voltage (to use a direct
                                      > grid-tie inverter and no battery bank, for example), the size of
                                      > everything stays the same. You just wind each coil with more turns of
                                      > smaller diameter wire, keeping the coil exactly the same size. Adding
                                      > more magnets and more copper gives you more power output (assuming you
                                      > have the extra power at the shaft to drive it), and also lets you get
                                      > a lower cut-in RPM for whatever voltage you wind for.
                                      >
                                      > ---Have fun!
                                      >
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