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Generator for My Turbine, where do I start?

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  • Steve
    I m so excited to build my first generator for my turbine! But I have no idea what to expect. I would love to learn as much as I can from all of you bright
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 3, 2010
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      I'm so excited to build my first generator for my turbine! But I have no idea what to expect. I would love to learn as much as I can from all of you bright people!

      Here is my first two turbines.

      http://www.youtube.com/user/scarlejr#p/a/u/0/RtePoy1O9rU

      I'd like to build an axial flux for both ends! The wheels are about 26" in diameter. The blades are about 10' long and are made of 4" PVC cut in half. I will be mounting it up right when I'm done. I'd like to get as much power out as possible. The wind speeds are always high between 10 and 20mph normally (mountain top Oakland MD).

      Could I make the generator with 3 rows of say 12 magnets on the rotor(wheel) and 3 rows of 12 coils on the stator, on both ends?

      Does this generator experience drag under load like others? If i short it out will the turbine stop?

      should I do one row of 18 coils and 24 magnets or 3 rows of 12 coils and 16 magnets?

      What size wire and how many turns would I need for a 48v system? (with 12 coils or 18 coils)

      Are these magnets ok? 2" X 1" X 1/2" Grade 35 NdFeB
      Would you recommend any other kinds or cheaper kinds?
      Where's a cheap place to get magnets and wire?

      I'll try and get you rpms at what mph soon.

      Anyone have pictures/videos/stories of a similar turbine and generator that I could look at?

      I'm so very excited to have found this group!
      Hope you can help me figure out what the heck I'm doing ;)

      Thanks,
      Steve C
    • JP
      Steve, I don t think you have near enough rotor area to turn the amount of alternator(s) capacity you are talking about. You ll need lots larger surfaces and
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 3, 2010
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        Steve, I don't think you have near enough rotor area to turn the amount of alternator(s) capacity you are talking about.
        You'll need lots larger surfaces and much larger diameter .
        Yes, even axialflux takes force to pass the coils through the magnetic flux.
        I'm impressed with your ideas and craftsmanship!  Keep it up!
        I've bought from Magnet4less at Plano, Tex very satisfactorily.  Do a search on the e auction place.
        Best wishes
         
        -----Keep looking up!  JP--
      • Steve Spence
        Not sure what you are talking about. What capacity and rotor size are you referring to? Steve Spence Renewable energy and self sufficiency
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 4, 2010
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          Not sure what you are talking about. What capacity and rotor size are
          you referring to?

          Steve Spence
          Renewable energy and self sufficiency
          http://www.green-trust.org
          http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/




          JP wrote:
          >
          >
          > /Steve, I don't think you have near enough rotor area to turn the amount
          > of alternator(s) capacity you are talking about./
          > /You'll need lots larger surfaces and much larger diameter ./
          > /Yes, even axialflux takes force to pass the coils through the magnetic
          > flux./
          > /I'm impressed with your ideas and craftsmanship! Keep it up!/
          > /I've bought from Magnet4less at Plano, Tex very satisfactorily. Do a
          > search on the e auction place./
          > /Best wishes/
          > /John (windpower4jp@... <mailto:windpower4jp@...>)/
          > /
          > -----Keep looking up! JP--/
          >
        • dccd_tech
          Seems like one of the cheaper places for magnets and wire.. http://www.magnet4less.com ... (clip) ... (clip)
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 4, 2010
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            Seems like one of the cheaper places for magnets and wire..

            http://www.magnet4less.com

            --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <scarlejr@...> wrote:
            >
            (clip)
            > Are these magnets ok? 2" X 1" X 1/2" Grade 35 NdFeB
            > Would you recommend any other kinds or cheaper kinds?
            > Where's a cheap place to get magnets and wire?
            >
            (clip)
          • Steve Spence
            I d suggest you check out http://www.wondermagnet.com as well. Steve Spence Renewable energy and self sufficiency http://www.green-trust.org
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 4, 2010
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              I'd suggest you check out http://www.wondermagnet.com as well.

              Steve Spence
              Renewable energy and self sufficiency
              http://www.green-trust.org
              http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/




              dccd_tech wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > Seems like one of the cheaper places for magnets and wire..
              >
              > http://www.magnet4less.com <http://www.magnet4less.com>
              >
              > --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com <mailto:axialflux%40yahoogroups.com>,
              > "Steve" <scarlejr@...> wrote:
              >>
              > (clip)
              >> Are these magnets ok? 2" X 1" X 1/2" Grade 35 NdFeB
              >> Would you recommend any other kinds or cheaper kinds?
              >> Where's a cheap place to get magnets and wire?
              >>
              > (clip)
              >
              >
            • Steve
              Hey Steve! I think he just meant that i won t be able to have as powerful alternators (capacity) as i would have liked because my diameter of my turbine (rotor
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 4, 2010
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                Hey Steve!

                I think he just meant that i won't be able to have as powerful alternators (capacity) as i would have liked because my diameter of my turbine (rotor size) isn't large enough.


                --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, Steve Spence <sspence@...> wrote:
                >
                > Not sure what you are talking about. What capacity and rotor size are
                > you referring to?
                >
                > Steve Spence
                > Renewable energy and self sufficiency
                > http://www.green-trust.org
                > http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > JP wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > /Steve, I don't think you have near enough rotor area to turn the amount
                > > of alternator(s) capacity you are talking about./
                > > /You'll need lots larger surfaces and much larger diameter ./
                > > /Yes, even axialflux takes force to pass the coils through the magnetic
                > > flux./
                > > /I'm impressed with your ideas and craftsmanship! Keep it up!/
                > > /I've bought from Magnet4less at Plano, Tex very satisfactorily. Do a
                > > search on the e auction place./
                > > /Best wishes/
                > > /John (windpower4jp@... <mailto:windpower4jp@...>)/
                > > /
                > > -----Keep looking up! JP--/
                > >
                >
              • Steve Spence
                ah, other steve ..... Thought he was talking to me. Steve Spence Renewable energy and self sufficiency http://www.green-trust.org
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 4, 2010
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                  ah, other steve .....

                  Thought he was talking to me.


                  Steve Spence
                  Renewable energy and self sufficiency
                  http://www.green-trust.org
                  http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/




                  Steve wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Hey Steve!
                  >
                  > I think he just meant that i won't be able to have as powerful
                  > alternators (capacity) as i would have liked because my diameter of my
                  > turbine (rotor size) isn't large enough.
                  >
                  > --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com <mailto:axialflux%40yahoogroups.com>,
                  > Steve Spence <sspence@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >> Not sure what you are talking about. What capacity and rotor size are
                  >> you referring to?
                  >>
                  >> Steve Spence
                  >> Renewable energy and self sufficiency
                  >> http://www.green-trust.org <http://www.green-trust.org>
                  >> http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/
                  > <http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> JP wrote:
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> > /Steve, I don't think you have near enough rotor area to turn the amount
                  >> > of alternator(s) capacity you are talking about./
                  >> > /You'll need lots larger surfaces and much larger diameter ./
                  >> > /Yes, even axialflux takes force to pass the coils through the magnetic
                  >> > flux./
                  >> > /I'm impressed with your ideas and craftsmanship! Keep it up!/
                  >> > /I've bought from Magnet4less at Plano, Tex very satisfactorily. Do a
                  >> > search on the e auction place./
                  >> > /Best wishes/
                  >> > /John (windpower4jp@... <mailto:windpower4jp@...>)/
                  >> > /
                  >> > -----Keep looking up! JP--/
                  >> >
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                • Charles Evans
                  LOL. Life is so confusing, sometimes, isn t it Steve Spence ? _____ From: axialflux@yahoogroups.com [mailto:axialflux@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 4, 2010
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                    LOL.  Life is so confusing, sometimes, isn’t it Steve “Spence”? 

                     


                    From: axialflux@yahoogroups.com [mailto: axialflux@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Steve Spence
                    Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 1:24 PM
                    To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [axialflux] Re: Generator for My Turbine, where do I start?

                     

                     

                    ah, other steve .....

                    Thought he was talking to me.

                    Steve Spence
                    Renewable energy and self sufficiency
                    http://www.green- trust.org
                    http://makingtheweb work.blogspot. com/

                    Steve wrote:

                    >
                    >
                    > Hey Steve!
                    >
                    > I think he just meant that i won't be able to have as powerful
                    > alternators (capacity) as i would have liked because my diameter of my
                    > turbine (rotor size) isn't large enough.
                    >
                    > --- In axialflux@yahoogrou ps.com
                    <mailto:axialflux% 40yahoogroups. com>,
                    > Steve Spence <sspence@... > wrote:
                    >>
                    >> Not sure what you are talking about. What capacity and rotor size are
                    >> you referring to?
                    >>
                    >> Steve Spence
                    >> Renewable energy and self sufficiency
                    >> http://www.green- trust.org
                    <http://www.green- trust.org>
                    >> http://makingtheweb work.blogspot. com/
                    > <http://makingtheweb work.blogspot. com/>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> JP wrote:
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> > /Steve, I don't think you have near enough rotor area to turn the
                    amount
                    >> > of alternator(s) capacity you are talking about./
                    >> > /You'll need lots larger surfaces and much larger diameter ./
                    >> > /Yes, even axialflux takes force to pass the coils through the
                    magnetic
                    >> > flux./
                    >> > /I'm impressed with your ideas and craftsmanship! Keep it up!/
                    >> > /I've bought from Magnet4less at
                    w:st="on">Plano , Tex very satisfactorily. Do a
                    >> > search on the e auction place./
                    >> > /Best wishes/
                    >> > /John (windpower4jp@ ... <mailto:windpower4j p@...>)/
                    >> > /
                    >> > -----Keep looking up! JP--/
                    >> >
                    >>
                    >
                    >

                    No virus found in this incoming message.
                    Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                    Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2598 - Release Date: 01/04/10 08:24:00

                  • Steve Spence
                    I ll chalk it up to oldtimers disease. Steve Spence Renewable energy and self sufficiency http://www.green-trust.org http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jan 4, 2010
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                      I'll chalk it up to oldtimers disease.

                      Steve Spence
                      Renewable energy and self sufficiency
                      http://www.green-trust.org
                      http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/




                      Charles Evans wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > LOL. Life is so confusing, sometimes, isn’t it Steve “Spence”?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      >
                      > *From:* axialflux@yahoogroups.com [mailto:axialflux@yahoogroups.com] *On
                      > Behalf Of *Steve Spence
                      > *Sent:* Monday, January 04, 2010 1:24 PM
                      > *To:* axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                      > *Subject:* Re: [axialflux] Re: Generator for My Turbine, where do I start?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ah, other steve .....
                      >
                      > Thought he was talking to me.
                      >
                      > Steve Spence
                      > Renewable energy and self sufficiency
                      > http://www.green-trust.org <http://www.green-trust.org>
                      > http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/
                      > <http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/>
                      >
                      > Steve wrote:
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Hey Steve!
                      >>
                      >> I think he just meant that i won't be able to have as powerful
                      >> alternators (capacity) as i would have liked because my diameter of my
                      >> turbine (rotor size) isn't large enough.
                      >>
                      >> --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com <mailto:axialflux%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > <mailto:axialflux%40yahoogroups.com>,
                      >> Steve Spence <sspence@...> wrote:
                      >>>
                      >>> Not sure what you are talking about. What capacity and rotor size are
                      >>> you referring to?
                      >>>
                      >>> Steve Spence
                      >>> Renewable energy and self sufficiency
                      >>> http://www.green-trust.org <http://www.green-trust.org>
                      > <http://www.green-trust.org <http://www.green-trust.org>>
                      >>> http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/
                      > <http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/>
                      >> <http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/
                      > <http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>> JP wrote:
                      >>> >
                      >>> >
                      >>> > /Steve, I don't think you have near enough rotor area to turn the amount
                      >>> > of alternator(s) capacity you are talking about./
                      >>> > /You'll need lots larger surfaces and much larger diameter ./
                      >>> > /Yes, even axialflux takes force to pass the coils through the magnetic
                      >>> > flux./
                      >>> > /I'm impressed with your ideas and craftsmanship! Keep it up!/
                      >>> > /I've bought from Magnet4less at Plano, Tex very satisfactorily. Do a
                      >>> > search on the e auction place./
                      >>> > /Best wishes/
                      >>> > /John (windpower4jp@... <mailto:windpower4jp@...>)/
                      >>> > /
                      >>> > -----Keep looking up! JP--/
                      >>> >
                      >>>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      > No virus found in this incoming message.
                      > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                      > Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2598 - Release Date:
                      > 01/04/10 08:24:00
                      >
                      >
                    • kensmith52
                      HI Steve, I am also working on a vertical wind turbine. I was thinking about the design you did with the 4 plastic pipe for a test only. Let us know how that
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jan 4, 2010
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                        HI Steve,
                        I am also working on a vertical wind turbine. I was thinking about the design you did with the 4" plastic pipe for a test only.
                        Let us know how that came out. I am thinking about one 4' in diameter and 8' tall but fully enclosed with a 4' stator plate.



                        --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <scarlejr@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I'm so excited to build my first generator for my turbine! But I have no idea what to expect. I would love to learn as much as I can from all of you bright people!
                        >
                        > Here is my first two turbines.
                        >
                        > http://www.youtube.com/user/scarlejr#p/a/u/0/RtePoy1O9rU
                        >
                        > I'd like to build an axial flux for both ends! The wheels are about 26" in diameter. The blades are about 10' long and are made of 4" PVC cut in half. I will be mounting it up right when I'm done. I'd like to get as much power out as possible. The wind speeds are always high between 10 and 20mph normally (mountain top Oakland MD).
                        >
                        > Could I make the generator with 3 rows of say 12 magnets on the rotor(wheel) and 3 rows of 12 coils on the stator, on both ends?
                        >
                        > Does this generator experience drag under load like others? If i short it out will the turbine stop?
                        >
                        > should I do one row of 18 coils and 24 magnets or 3 rows of 12 coils and 16 magnets?
                        >
                        > What size wire and how many turns would I need for a 48v system? (with 12 coils or 18 coils)
                        >
                        > Are these magnets ok? 2" X 1" X 1/2" Grade 35 NdFeB
                        > Would you recommend any other kinds or cheaper kinds?
                        > Where's a cheap place to get magnets and wire?
                        >
                        > I'll try and get you rpms at what mph soon.
                        >
                        > Anyone have pictures/videos/stories of a similar turbine and generator that I could look at?
                        >
                        > I'm so very excited to have found this group!
                        > Hope you can help me figure out what the heck I'm doing ;)
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        > Steve C
                        >
                      • jerry freedomev
                        Hi Ken, Steve and All, There really is no reason to make an alt for these VAWT s as they won t make any power worth the trouble. They would need to be 5-8x s
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jan 4, 2010
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                          Hi Ken, Steve and All,

                          There really is no reason to make an alt for these VAWT's as they won't make any power worth the trouble. They would need to be 5-8x's the swept area of a good HAWT to put out the same power.
                          Sorry to burst your bubble but it's plain physics and aerodynamics that says so. Feel free to prove me wrong. A simple belt in a bike rim to a PM motor will show there is no power in it.
                          You need RPM x's torque to get power, both of which these PVC type VAWT's just don't have.
                          Where you need to start is with an eff 2-5 blade HAWT with 3 blades being best as most eff, least vibration.
                          I design, build, sail the only eff linear VAWT, a sailboat, where they work very well. But as a land generator they rather suck.

                          Jerry Dycus

                          --- On Mon, 1/4/10, kensmith52 <kensmith52@...> wrote:

                          > From: kensmith52 <kensmith52@...>
                          > Subject: [axialflux] Re: Generator for My Turbine, where do I start?
                          > To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                          > Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 4:06 PM
                          > HI Steve,
                          > I am also working on a vertical wind turbine. I was
                          > thinking about the design you did with the 4" plastic pipe
                          > for a test only.
                          > Let us know how that came out. I am thinking about one 4'
                          > in diameter and 8' tall but fully enclosed with a 4' stator
                          > plate.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com,
                          > "Steve" <scarlejr@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I'm so excited to build my first generator for my
                          > turbine! But I have no idea what to expect. I would love to
                          > learn as much as I can from all of you bright people!
                          > >
                          > > Here is my first two turbines.
                          > >
                          > > http://www.youtube.com/user/scarlejr#p/a/u/0/RtePoy1O9rU
                          > >
                          > > I'd like to build an axial flux for both ends! The
                          > wheels are about 26" in diameter. The blades are about 10'
                          > long and are made of 4" PVC cut in half. I will be mounting
                          > it up right when I'm done. I'd like to get as much power out
                          > as possible. The wind speeds are always high between 10 and
                          > 20mph normally (mountain top Oakland MD).
                          > >
                          > > Could I make the generator with 3 rows of say 12
                          > magnets on the rotor(wheel) and 3 rows of 12 coils on the
                          > stator, on both ends?
                          > >
                          > > Does this generator experience drag under load like
                          > others? If i short it out will the turbine stop?
                          > >
                          > > should I do one row of 18 coils and 24 magnets or 3
                          > rows of 12 coils and 16 magnets?
                          > >
                          > > What size wire and how many turns would I need for a
                          > 48v system? (with 12 coils or 18 coils)
                          > >
                          > > Are these magnets ok? 2" X 1" X 1/2" Grade 35 NdFeB
                          > > Would you recommend any other kinds or cheaper kinds?
                          > > Where's a cheap place to get magnets and wire?
                          > >
                          > > I'll try and get you rpms at what mph soon.
                          > >
                          > > Anyone have pictures/videos/stories of a similar
                          > turbine and generator that I could look at?
                          > >
                          > > I'm so very excited to have found this group!
                          > > Hope you can help me figure out what the heck I'm
                          > doing ;)
                          > >
                          > > Thanks,
                          > > Steve C
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > http://www.motherearthnews.com/subscribe/subscribe.aspx?promocode=EMEAD9Z4Yahoo!
                          > Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          > axialflux-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Steve
                          Ya, I ve heard a lot of people saying this about VAWTs (Of course, after I built my turbine) I have definitely realized the lack of torque, so sad. I figured
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jan 4, 2010
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                            Ya, I've heard a lot of people saying this about VAWTs (Of course, after I built my turbine) I have definitely realized the lack of torque, so sad. I figured though, i might as well try one of these generators on my VAWT and if it sucks i'll just toss the generator on a nice VAWT. I do have really good wind here, hope it helps.

                            What would happen if you made a VAWT that's like 3' tall but 20' wide? Would it have massive torque? then just gear the crap out of it?



                            --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, jerry freedomev <freedomev@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Hi Ken, Steve and All,
                            >
                            > There really is no reason to make an alt for these VAWT's as they won't make any power worth the trouble. They would need to be 5-8x's the swept area of a good HAWT to put out the same power.
                            > Sorry to burst your bubble but it's plain physics and aerodynamics that says so. Feel free to prove me wrong. A simple belt in a bike rim to a PM motor will show there is no power in it.
                            > You need RPM x's torque to get power, both of which these PVC type VAWT's just don't have.
                            > Where you need to start is with an eff 2-5 blade HAWT with 3 blades being best as most eff, least vibration.
                            > I design, build, sail the only eff linear VAWT, a sailboat, where they work very well. But as a land generator they rather suck.
                            >
                            > Jerry Dycus
                            >
                            > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, kensmith52 <kensmith52@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > From: kensmith52 <kensmith52@...>
                            > > Subject: [axialflux] Re: Generator for My Turbine, where do I start?
                            > > To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 4:06 PM
                            > > HI Steve,
                            > > I am also working on a vertical wind turbine. I was
                            > > thinking about the design you did with the 4" plastic pipe
                            > > for a test only.
                            > > Let us know how that came out. I am thinking about one 4'
                            > > in diameter and 8' tall but fully enclosed with a 4' stator
                            > > plate.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com,
                            > > "Steve" <scarlejr@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > I'm so excited to build my first generator for my
                            > > turbine! But I have no idea what to expect. I would love to
                            > > learn as much as I can from all of you bright people!
                            > > >
                            > > > Here is my first two turbines.
                            > > >
                            > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/scarlejr#p/a/u/0/RtePoy1O9rU
                            > > >
                            > > > I'd like to build an axial flux for both ends! The
                            > > wheels are about 26" in diameter. The blades are about 10'
                            > > long and are made of 4" PVC cut in half. I will be mounting
                            > > it up right when I'm done. I'd like to get as much power out
                            > > as possible. The wind speeds are always high between 10 and
                            > > 20mph normally (mountain top Oakland MD).
                            > > >
                            > > > Could I make the generator with 3 rows of say 12
                            > > magnets on the rotor(wheel) and 3 rows of 12 coils on the
                            > > stator, on both ends?
                            > > >
                            > > > Does this generator experience drag under load like
                            > > others? If i short it out will the turbine stop?
                            > > >
                            > > > should I do one row of 18 coils and 24 magnets or 3
                            > > rows of 12 coils and 16 magnets?
                            > > >
                            > > > What size wire and how many turns would I need for a
                            > > 48v system? (with 12 coils or 18 coils)
                            > > >
                            > > > Are these magnets ok? 2" X 1" X 1/2" Grade 35 NdFeB
                            > > > Would you recommend any other kinds or cheaper kinds?
                            > > > Where's a cheap place to get magnets and wire?
                            > > >
                            > > > I'll try and get you rpms at what mph soon.
                            > > >
                            > > > Anyone have pictures/videos/stories of a similar
                            > > turbine and generator that I could look at?
                            > > >
                            > > > I'm so very excited to have found this group!
                            > > > Hope you can help me figure out what the heck I'm
                            > > doing ;)
                            > > >
                            > > > Thanks,
                            > > > Steve C
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ------------------------------------
                            > >
                            > > http://www.motherearthnews.com/subscribe/subscribe.aspx?promocode=EMEAD9Z4Yahoo!
                            > > Groups Links
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > axialflux-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • jerry freedomev
                            Hi Steve and All, If you must stick to a VAWT then with your winds a split barrel overlapping in the center and another on top of it 90deg out of phase would
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jan 4, 2010
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                              Hi Steve and All,

                              If you must stick to a VAWT then with your winds a split barrel overlapping in the center and another on top of it 90deg out of phase would be far better than your PVC type. But really only somewhat good if you really have a lot of 20 mph winds.

                              You'd do better with a 7' dia HAWT with a 2kw alt on it, putting out 3-5x's the output.

                              Jerry Dycus

                              --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Steve <scarlejr@...> wrote:

                              > From: Steve <scarlejr@...>
                              > Subject: [axialflux] Re: Generator for My Turbine, where do I start?
                              > To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:57 PM
                              > Ya, I've heard a lot of people saying
                              > this about VAWTs (Of course, after I built my turbine) I
                              > have definitely realized the lack of torque, so sad. I
                              > figured though, i might as well try one of these generators
                              > on my VAWT and if it sucks i'll just toss the generator on a
                              > nice VAWT. I do have really good wind here, hope it helps.
                              >
                              > What would happen if you made a VAWT that's like 3' tall
                              > but 20' wide? Would it have massive torque? then just gear
                              > the crap out of it?
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com,
                              > jerry freedomev <freedomev@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Hi
                              > Ken, Steve and All,
                              > >
                              > >
                              > There really is no reason to make an alt
                              > for these VAWT's as they won't make any power worth the
                              > trouble. They would need to be 5-8x's the swept area of a
                              > good HAWT to put out the same power.
                              > >
                              > Sorry to burst your bubble but it's plain
                              > physics and aerodynamics that says so. Feel free to prove me
                              > wrong. A simple belt in a bike rim to a PM motor will show
                              > there is no power in it.
                              > >
                              > You need RPM x's torque to get power, both of which
                              > these PVC type VAWT's just don't have.
                              > >
                              > Where you need to start is with an eff 2-5 blade HAWT
                              > with 3 blades being best as most eff, least vibration.
                              > >
                              > I design, build, sail the only eff linear VAWT, a
                              > sailboat, where they work very well. But as a land generator
                              > they rather suck.
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > Jerry Dycus
                              > >
                              > > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, kensmith52 <kensmith52@...>
                              > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > > From: kensmith52 <kensmith52@...>
                              > > > Subject: [axialflux] Re: Generator for My
                              > Turbine, where do I start?
                              > > > To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 4:06 PM
                              > > > HI Steve,
                              > > > I am also working on a vertical wind turbine. I
                              > was
                              > > > thinking about the design you did with the 4"
                              > plastic pipe
                              > > > for a test only.
                              > > > Let us know how that came out. I am thinking
                              > about one 4'
                              > > > in diameter and 8' tall but fully enclosed with a
                              > 4' stator
                              > > > plate.
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com,
                              > > > "Steve" <scarlejr@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I'm so excited to build my first generator
                              > for my
                              > > > turbine! But I have no idea what to expect. I
                              > would love to
                              > > > learn as much as I can from all of you bright
                              > people!
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Here is my first two turbines.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/scarlejr#p/a/u/0/RtePoy1O9rU
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I'd like to build an axial flux for both
                              > ends! The
                              > > > wheels are about 26" in diameter. The blades are
                              > about 10'
                              > > > long and are made of 4" PVC cut in half. I will
                              > be mounting
                              > > > it up right when I'm done. I'd like to get as
                              > much power out
                              > > > as possible. The wind speeds are always high
                              > between 10 and
                              > > > 20mph normally (mountain top Oakland MD).
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Could I make the generator with 3 rows of
                              > say 12
                              > > > magnets on the rotor(wheel) and 3 rows of 12
                              > coils on the
                              > > > stator, on both ends?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Does this generator experience drag under
                              > load like
                              > > > others? If i short it out will the turbine stop?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > should I do one row of 18 coils and 24
                              > magnets or 3
                              > > > rows of 12 coils and 16 magnets?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > What size wire and how many turns would I
                              > need for a
                              > > > 48v system? (with 12 coils or 18 coils)
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Are these magnets ok? 2" X 1" X 1/2" Grade
                              > 35 NdFeB
                              > > > > Would you recommend any other kinds or
                              > cheaper kinds?
                              > > > > Where's a cheap place to get magnets and
                              > wire?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I'll try and get you rpms at what mph soon.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Anyone have pictures/videos/stories of a
                              > similar
                              > > > turbine and generator that I could look at?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I'm so very excited to have found this
                              > group!
                              > > > > Hope you can help me figure out what the
                              > heck I'm
                              > > > doing ;)
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Thanks,
                              > > > > Steve C
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > ------------------------------------
                              > > >
                              > > > http://www.motherearthnews.com/subscribe/subscribe.aspx?promocode=EMEAD9Z4Yahoo!
                              > > > Groups Links
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > axialflux-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > http://www.motherearthnews.com/subscribe/subscribe.aspx?promocode=EMEAD9Z4Yahoo!
                              > Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              > axialflux-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Steve
                              What magnets, wire, and turns is needed for a 2kw generator?
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jan 4, 2010
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                                What magnets, wire, and turns is needed for a 2kw generator?


                                --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, jerry freedomev <freedomev@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi Steve and All,
                                >
                                > If you must stick to a VAWT then with your winds a split barrel overlapping in the center and another on top of it 90deg out of phase would be far better than your PVC type. But really only somewhat good if you really have a lot of 20 mph winds.
                                >
                                > You'd do better with a 7' dia HAWT with a 2kw alt on it, putting out 3-5x's the output.
                                >
                                > Jerry Dycus
                                >
                                > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Steve <scarlejr@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > From: Steve <scarlejr@...>
                                > > Subject: [axialflux] Re: Generator for My Turbine, where do I start?
                                > > To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:57 PM
                                > > Ya, I've heard a lot of people saying
                                > > this about VAWTs (Of course, after I built my turbine) I
                                > > have definitely realized the lack of torque, so sad. I
                                > > figured though, i might as well try one of these generators
                                > > on my VAWT and if it sucks i'll just toss the generator on a
                                > > nice VAWT. I do have really good wind here, hope it helps.
                                > >
                                > > What would happen if you made a VAWT that's like 3' tall
                                > > but 20' wide? Would it have massive torque? then just gear
                                > > the crap out of it?
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com,
                                > > jerry freedomev <freedomev@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Hi
                                > > Ken, Steve and All,
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > There really is no reason to make an alt
                                > > for these VAWT's as they won't make any power worth the
                                > > trouble. They would need to be 5-8x's the swept area of a
                                > > good HAWT to put out the same power.
                                > > >
                                > > Sorry to burst your bubble but it's plain
                                > > physics and aerodynamics that says so. Feel free to prove me
                                > > wrong. A simple belt in a bike rim to a PM motor will show
                                > > there is no power in it.
                                > > >
                                > > You need RPM x's torque to get power, both of which
                                > > these PVC type VAWT's just don't have.
                                > > >
                                > > Where you need to start is with an eff 2-5 blade HAWT
                                > > with 3 blades being best as most eff, least vibration.
                                > > >
                                > > I design, build, sail the only eff linear VAWT, a
                                > > sailboat, where they work very well. But as a land generator
                                > > they rather suck.
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > > Jerry Dycus
                                > > >
                                > > > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, kensmith52 <kensmith52@>
                                > > wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > > From: kensmith52 <kensmith52@>
                                > > > > Subject: [axialflux] Re: Generator for My
                                > > Turbine, where do I start?
                                > > > > To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 4:06 PM
                                > > > > HI Steve,
                                > > > > I am also working on a vertical wind turbine. I
                                > > was
                                > > > > thinking about the design you did with the 4"
                                > > plastic pipe
                                > > > > for a test only.
                                > > > > Let us know how that came out. I am thinking
                                > > about one 4'
                                > > > > in diameter and 8' tall but fully enclosed with a
                                > > 4' stator
                                > > > > plate.
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com,
                                > > > > "Steve" <scarlejr@> wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > I'm so excited to build my first generator
                                > > for my
                                > > > > turbine! But I have no idea what to expect. I
                                > > would love to
                                > > > > learn as much as I can from all of you bright
                                > > people!
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Here is my first two turbines.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/scarlejr#p/a/u/0/RtePoy1O9rU
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > I'd like to build an axial flux for both
                                > > ends! The
                                > > > > wheels are about 26" in diameter. The blades are
                                > > about 10'
                                > > > > long and are made of 4" PVC cut in half. I will
                                > > be mounting
                                > > > > it up right when I'm done. I'd like to get as
                                > > much power out
                                > > > > as possible. The wind speeds are always high
                                > > between 10 and
                                > > > > 20mph normally (mountain top Oakland MD).
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Could I make the generator with 3 rows of
                                > > say 12
                                > > > > magnets on the rotor(wheel) and 3 rows of 12
                                > > coils on the
                                > > > > stator, on both ends?
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Does this generator experience drag under
                                > > load like
                                > > > > others? If i short it out will the turbine stop?
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > should I do one row of 18 coils and 24
                                > > magnets or 3
                                > > > > rows of 12 coils and 16 magnets?
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > What size wire and how many turns would I
                                > > need for a
                                > > > > 48v system? (with 12 coils or 18 coils)
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Are these magnets ok? 2" X 1" X 1/2" Grade
                                > > 35 NdFeB
                                > > > > > Would you recommend any other kinds or
                                > > cheaper kinds?
                                > > > > > Where's a cheap place to get magnets and
                                > > wire?
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > I'll try and get you rpms at what mph soon.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Anyone have pictures/videos/stories of a
                                > > similar
                                > > > > turbine and generator that I could look at?
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > I'm so very excited to have found this
                                > > group!
                                > > > > > Hope you can help me figure out what the
                                > > heck I'm
                                > > > > doing ;)
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Thanks,
                                > > > > > Steve C
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > ------------------------------------
                                > > > >
                                > > > > http://www.motherearthnews.com/subscribe/subscribe.aspx?promocode=EMEAD9Z4Yahoo!
                                > > > > Groups Links
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > axialflux-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ------------------------------------
                                > >
                                > > http://www.motherearthnews.com/subscribe/subscribe.aspx?promocode=EMEAD9Z4Yahoo!
                                > > Groups Links
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > axialflux-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • kensmith52
                                Hi Jerry, You may be right, however, there are a lot of vertical turbines claiming different. There is a lot on these on youtube. I was also on
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jan 6, 2010
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                                  Hi Jerry,
                                  You may be right, however, there are a lot of vertical turbines claiming different. There is a lot on these on youtube. I was also on windstuffnow.com and Ed Lenz has tested a vertical and he stated that he got almost the same results as a horizontal. I think more testing needs to be done before we say it won't work.

                                  Ken


                                  --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, jerry freedomev <freedomev@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Hi Ken, Steve and All,
                                  >
                                  > There really is no reason to make an alt for these VAWT's as they won't make any power worth the trouble. They would need to be 5-8x's the swept area of a good HAWT to put out the same power.
                                  > Sorry to burst your bubble but it's plain physics and aerodynamics that says so. Feel free to prove me wrong. A simple belt in a bike rim to a PM motor will show there is no power in it.
                                  > You need RPM x's torque to get power, both of which these PVC type VAWT's just don't have.
                                  > Where you need to start is with an eff 2-5 blade HAWT with 3 blades being best as most eff, least vibration.
                                  > I design, build, sail the only eff linear VAWT, a sailboat, where they work very well. But as a land generator they rather suck.
                                  >
                                  > Jerry Dycus
                                  >
                                • jerry freedomev
                                  Hi Ken and All, What can I say? They lie!! It s basic physics that says VAWT s are not eff at converting wind into power. If you want to fight the laws of
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Jan 6, 2010
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                                    Hi Ken and All,

                                    What can I say? They lie!! It's basic physics that says VAWT's are not eff at converting wind into power. If you want to fight the laws of physics go ahead.
                                    Air is very thin so to get any power from it you need serious speed only a HAWT can get from it's rpm. Next most VAWT's only work from 1/2 it's swept area, the other half being drag. If you want to fight against that feel free but you have been warned.
                                    I'm extremely good at getting power, designing, building, using from the wind both V and H but V ones only work well in linear apps like sailboats, my cruising designs go 25mph under sail, and then require large areas in lower wind speeds.
                                    I never said it won't work, just not worth it in time, money when for the same you can get 5-10's the power doing it right in a HAWT. I even suggested the best way, a split overlapped barrel style, about 10% eff done right vs 40% for a HAWT so don't say things I've never said, that's rude.
                                    And it already has been studied to death. Prove me wrong!!

                                    Jerry Dycus



                                    --- On Wed, 1/6/10, kensmith52 <kensmith52@...> wrote:

                                    > From: kensmith52 <kensmith52@...>
                                    > Subject: [axialflux] Re: Generator for My Turbine, where do I start?
                                    > To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 7:55 AM
                                    > Hi Jerry,
                                    > You may be right, however, there are a lot of vertical
                                    > turbines claiming different. There is a lot on these on
                                    > youtube. I was also on windstuffnow.com and Ed Lenz has
                                    > tested a vertical and he stated that he got almost the same
                                    > results as a horizontal. I think more testing needs to be
                                    > done before we say it won't work.
                                    >
                                    > Ken
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com,
                                    > jerry freedomev <freedomev@...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Hi
                                    > Ken, Steve and All,
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > There really is no reason to make an alt
                                    > for these VAWT's as they won't make any power worth the
                                    > trouble. They would need to be 5-8x's the swept area of a
                                    > good HAWT to put out the same power.
                                    > >
                                    > Sorry to burst your bubble but it's plain
                                    > physics and aerodynamics that says so. Feel free to prove me
                                    > wrong. A simple belt in a bike rim to a PM motor will show
                                    > there is no power in it.
                                    > >
                                    > You need RPM x's torque to get power, both of which
                                    > these PVC type VAWT's just don't have.
                                    > >
                                    > Where you need to start is with an eff 2-5 blade HAWT
                                    > with 3 blades being best as most eff, least vibration.
                                    > >
                                    > I design, build, sail the only eff linear VAWT, a
                                    > sailboat, where they work very well. But as a land generator
                                    > they rather suck.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > Jerry Dycus
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > http://www.motherearthnews.com/subscribe/subscribe.aspx?promocode=EMEAD9Z4Yahoo!
                                    > Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > axialflux-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • jerry freedomev
                                    Hi Steve and All, That depends on what you are using to drive it. If you are doing a high wind speed, smaller rotor design then using a 8 dia rotor in
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Jan 6, 2010
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                                      Hi Steve and All,

                                      That depends on what you are using to drive it.
                                      If you are doing a high wind speed, smaller rotor design then using a 8' dia rotor in 16-20mph winds then you can just use a regular 1kw AF and get 2x's the voltage out of it since you are about 2x's it's rpm.

                                      If for a VAWT then rpm, etc is needed but that is going to be a damn large machine, 20' high and wide.

                                      Jerry Dycus

                                      --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Steve <scarlejr@...> wrote:

                                      > From: Steve <scarlejr@...>
                                      > Subject: [axialflux] Re: Generator for My Turbine, where do I start?
                                      > To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 2:16 AM
                                      > What magnets, wire, and turns is
                                      > needed for a 2kw generator?
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com,
                                      > jerry freedomev <freedomev@...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Hi Steve and All,
                                      > >
                                      > > If you must
                                      > stick to a VAWT then with your winds a split barrel
                                      > overlapping in the center and another on top of it 90deg out
                                      > of phase would be far better than your PVC type. But really
                                      > only somewhat good if you really have a lot of 20 mph
                                      > winds.
                                      > >
                                      > > You'd do better
                                      > with a 7' dia HAWT with a 2kw alt on it, putting out 3-5x's
                                      > the output.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > Jerry
                                      > Dycus
                                      > >
                                      > > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Steve <scarlejr@...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > > From: Steve <scarlejr@...>
                                      > > > Subject: [axialflux] Re: Generator for My
                                      > Turbine, where do I start?
                                      > > > To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:57 PM
                                      > > > Ya, I've heard a lot of people saying
                                      > > > this about VAWTs (Of course, after I built my
                                      > turbine) I
                                      > > > have definitely realized the lack of torque, so
                                      > sad. I
                                      > > > figured though, i might as well try one of these
                                      > generators
                                      > > > on my VAWT and if it sucks i'll just toss the
                                      > generator on a
                                      > > > nice VAWT. I do have really good wind here, hope
                                      > it helps.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > What would happen if you made a VAWT that's like
                                      > 3' tall
                                      > > > but 20' wide? Would it have massive torque? then
                                      > just gear
                                      > > > the crap out of it?
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com,
                                      > > > jerry freedomev <freedomev@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > Hi
                                      > > > Ken, Steve and All,
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      >
                                      > > > There really is no reason to make an
                                      > alt
                                      > > > for these VAWT's as they won't make any power
                                      > worth the
                                      > > > trouble. They would need to be 5-8x's the swept
                                      > area of a
                                      > > > good HAWT to put out the same power.
                                      > > > >
                                      >
                                      > > > Sorry to burst your bubble but it's
                                      > plain
                                      > > > physics and aerodynamics that says so. Feel free
                                      > to prove me
                                      > > > wrong. A simple belt in a bike rim to a PM motor
                                      > will show
                                      > > > there is no power in it.
                                      > > > >
                                      >
                                      > > > You need RPM x's torque to get
                                      > power, both of which
                                      > > > these PVC type VAWT's just don't have.
                                      > > > >
                                      >
                                      > > > Where you need to start is with
                                      > an eff 2-5 blade HAWT
                                      > > > with 3 blades being best as most eff, least
                                      > vibration.
                                      > > > >
                                      >
                                      > > > I design, build, sail the only
                                      > eff linear VAWT, a
                                      > > > sailboat, where they work very well. But as a
                                      > land generator
                                      > > > they rather suck.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      >
                                      > > >
                                      >
                                      > > > Jerry Dycus
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
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