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Furling Tail

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  • Aaron McCoy
    Hello all, I am building a 1kw axial flux turbine and want to know: is a furling tail a necessity? I purchased the 10 diameter, 3 blade fiberglass blades
    Message 1 of 28 , Dec 3, 2008
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      Hello all, I am building a 1kw axial flux turbine and want to know:
      is a furling tail a necessity? I purchased the 10' diameter, 3 blade
      fiberglass blades from magnets4less, so they are very strong and very
      light. It says they can withstand heavy winds. I was going to
      implement a pole that can pivot to lay down in case of real strong
      winds (ie tornadoes [southern illinois]). Would this be enough? I
      have pictures of what I have so far and some google sketchup designs
      if you want to see them, but am trying to decide whether I want to put
      the money into the furling tail system, or if a straight shaft/tail
      will be sufficient.

      Thanks,
      Aaron
    • Steve Spence
      A straight tail will keep the blades in the wind. A furling tail will move the blades out of the wind when the unit overspeeds, preventing coils from from
      Message 2 of 28 , Dec 3, 2008
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        A straight tail will keep the blades in the wind. A furling tail will
        move the blades out of the wind when the unit overspeeds, preventing
        coils from from burning out and blades from shedding.

        Steve Spence
        http://www.green-trust.org

        Aaron McCoy wrote:
        >
        >
        > Hello all, I am building a 1kw axial flux turbine and want to know:
        > is a furling tail a necessity? I purchased the 10' diameter, 3 blade
        > fiberglass blades from magnets4less, so they are very strong and very
        > light. It says they can withstand heavy winds. I was going to
        > implement a pole that can pivot to lay down in case of real strong
        > winds (ie tornadoes [southern illinois]). Would this be enough? I
        > have pictures of what I have so far and some google sketchup designs
        > if you want to see them, but am trying to decide whether I want to put
        > the money into the furling tail system, or if a straight shaft/tail
        > will be sufficient.
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Aaron
        >
        >
      • Michael Vanecek
        And even furled, the mill will still spin - just at more sane speeds. I d not recommend going without furling capability..... Be well, Mike -- Zone 8, Texas
        Message 3 of 28 , Dec 3, 2008
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          And even furled, the mill will still spin - just at more sane speeds.
          I'd not recommend going without furling capability.....

          Be well,
          Mike

          --
          Zone 8, Texas
          http://www.taroandti.com/ Exotic Plant Info and More...



          Steve Spence wrote:
          > A straight tail will keep the blades in the wind. A furling tail will
          > move the blades out of the wind when the unit overspeeds, preventing
          > coils from from burning out and blades from shedding.
          >
          > Steve Spence
          > http://www.green-trust.org
          >
          >
        • ke5fdh
          A furling tail protects at least three things; your tower, your turbine and your blades. Sounds like your blades might be covered. You might want to sacrifice
          Message 4 of 28 , Dec 3, 2008
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            A furling tail protects at least three things; your tower, your turbine
            and your blades. Sounds like your blades might be covered. You might
            want to sacrifice your turbine, but it's not wise considering all of
            the work you'll put into it. I'd say the cost of a stronger tower will
            exceed the cost of a furling tail. I learned the hard way.

            --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron McCoy" <theringoffire67@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Hello all, I am building a 1kw axial flux turbine and want to know:
            > is a furling tail a necessity? I purchased the 10' diameter, 3 blade
            > fiberglass blades from magnets4less, so they are very strong and very
            > light. It says they can withstand heavy winds. I was going to
            > implement a pole that can pivot to lay down in case of real strong
            > winds (ie tornadoes [southern illinois]). Would this be enough? I
            > have pictures of what I have so far and some google sketchup designs
            > if you want to see them, but am trying to decide whether I want to
            put
            > the money into the furling tail system, or if a straight shaft/tail
            > will be sufficient.
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Aaron
            >
          • Aaron McCoy
            Okay, how about the tower then. This may be a bad idea, but I was considering using television antennae towers, with guide wires. I am not sure where to get,
            Message 5 of 28 , Dec 3, 2008
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              Okay, how about the tower then. This may be a bad idea, but I was
              considering using television antennae towers, with guide wires. I am
              not sure where to get, or how much to spend on a descent tower.

              --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "ke5fdh" <dag5267@...> wrote:
              >
              > A furling tail protects at least three things; your tower, your
              turbine
              > and your blades. Sounds like your blades might be covered. You might
              > want to sacrifice your turbine, but it's not wise considering all of
              > the work you'll put into it. I'd say the cost of a stronger tower
              will
              > exceed the cost of a furling tail. I learned the hard way.
              >
            • Steve Spence
              A lattice tower with (or without) guy wires is possible, but needs to be engineered for the size of the wind turbine and the maximum wind speeds your location
              Message 6 of 28 , Dec 3, 2008
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                A lattice tower with (or without) guy wires is possible, but needs to be
                engineered for the size of the wind turbine and the maximum wind speeds
                your location uses. I use 6" schedule 40 steel pipe with guy wires every
                10' on my 7' turbine.


                Steve Spence
                http://www.green-trust.org

                Aaron McCoy wrote:
                >
                >
                > Okay, how about the tower then. This may be a bad idea, but I was
                > considering using television antennae towers, with guide wires. I am
                > not sure where to get, or how much to spend on a descent tower.
                >
                > --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com <mailto:axialflux%40yahoogroups.com>,
                > "ke5fdh" <dag5267@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > A furling tail protects at least three things; your tower, your
                > turbine
                > > and your blades. Sounds like your blades might be covered. You might
                > > want to sacrifice your turbine, but it's not wise considering all of
                > > the work you'll put into it. I'd say the cost of a stronger tower
                > will
                > > exceed the cost of a furling tail. I learned the hard way.
                > >
                >
                >
              • Aaron McCoy
                How do I make a furling tail where the alternator is mounted in the center of the pipe? Most all of the instructions I have found have had the generator and
                Message 7 of 28 , Dec 5, 2008
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                  How do I make a furling tail where the alternator is mounted in the
                  center of the pipe? Most all of the instructions I have found have
                  had the generator and blades offset to the left, and the furling tail
                  on the right, but the instructables.com instruction from sspence has
                  the alternator in the center (as I would like to position mine) here: http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-1000-watt-wind-turbine/

                  and another furling tail here, centered:
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoCQuaPnuLg&feature=related

                  But a comment from this site:
                  http://www.fieldlines.com/?op=displaystory;sid=2003/7/28/121316/288

                  says this:
                  "This will make the gen/alt centered and the furling tail will have no
                  effect"

                  I really want to make this thing work right, since it is my first one,
                  and sort of a proof of concept to give me some respect with the
                  father-in-law. I am working on a, sort of project webpage through
                  microsoft small business with my drawings and pictures, I will post
                  that here for you to see what I have over the weekend, as for now, I
                  am going to sleep.

                  Thanks!
                  Aaron
                • Steve Spence
                  The tail is offset and angled, and gravity makes it work. Due to some comments about our tail, we tried a design modification, and added a T to the tower
                  Message 8 of 28 , Dec 5, 2008
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                    The tail is offset and angled, and gravity makes it work. Due to some
                    comments about our tail, we tried a design modification, and added a "T"
                    to the tower head, offsetting the alternator. With two units flying side
                    by side, saw no changes to the furling affects (needed less tail with
                    the off set alt). At 30 mph, the blades still start rotating out of the
                    wind, and back as they slow.

                    Steve Spence
                    http://www.green-trust.org

                    Aaron McCoy wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > How do I make a furling tail where the alternator is mounted in the
                    > center of the pipe? Most all of the instructions I have found have
                    > had the generator and blades offset to the left, and the furling tail
                    > on the right, but the instructables.com instruction from sspence has
                    > the alternator in the center (as I would like to position mine) here:
                    > http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-1000-watt-wind-turbine/
                    > <http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-1000-watt-wind-turbine/>
                    >
                    > and another furling tail here, centered:
                    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoCQuaPnuLg&feature=related
                    > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoCQuaPnuLg&feature=related>
                    >
                    > But a comment from this site:
                    > http://www.fieldlines.com/?op=displaystory;sid=2003/7/28/121316/288
                    > <http://www.fieldlines.com/?op=displaystory;sid=2003/7/28/121316/288>
                    >
                    > says this:
                    > "This will make the gen/alt centered and the furling tail will have no
                    > effect"
                    >
                    > I really want to make this thing work right, since it is my first one,
                    > and sort of a proof of concept to give me some respect with the
                    > father-in-law. I am working on a, sort of project webpage through
                    > microsoft small business with my drawings and pictures, I will post
                    > that here for you to see what I have over the weekend, as for now, I
                    > am going to sleep.
                    >
                    > Thanks!
                    > Aaron
                    >
                    >
                  • Michael Vanecek
                    Look closer at the http://www.otherpower.com layout. The alternator is off-set and not on the center. Gravity on the tail keeps the mill oriented properly
                    Message 9 of 28 , Dec 5, 2008
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                      Look closer at the http://www.otherpower.com layout. The alternator is
                      off-set and not on the center. Gravity on the tail keeps the mill
                      oriented properly depending on wind-speed.

                      Be well,
                      Mike

                      --
                      Zone 8, Texas
                      http://www.taroandti.com/ Exotic Plant Info and More...



                      Aaron McCoy wrote:
                      > How do I make a furling tail where the alternator is mounted in the
                      > center of the pipe? Most all of the instructions I have found have
                      > had the generator and blades offset to the left, and the furling tail
                      > on the right, but the instructables.com instruction from sspence has
                      > the alternator in the center (as I would like to position mine) here:
                    • Steve Spence
                      Our design however does keep the alt centered and not off-set. we tried offsetting due to some advice we received, and found little difference. The off set
                      Message 10 of 28 , Dec 5, 2008
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                        Our design however does keep the alt centered and not off-set. we tried
                        offsetting due to some advice we received, and found little difference.
                        The off set gravity based furling system works regardless.

                        Steve Spence
                        http://www.green-trust.org

                        Michael Vanecek wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Look closer at the http://www.otherpower.com <http://www.otherpower.com>
                        > layout. The alternator is
                        > off-set and not on the center. Gravity on the tail keeps the mill
                        > oriented properly depending on wind-speed.
                        >
                        > Be well,
                        > Mike
                        >
                        > --
                        > Zone 8, Texas
                        > http://www.taroandti.com/ <http://www.taroandti.com/> Exotic Plant Info
                        > and More...
                        >
                        > Aaron McCoy wrote:
                        > > How do I make a furling tail where the alternator is mounted in the
                        > > center of the pipe? Most all of the instructions I have found have
                        > > had the generator and blades offset to the left, and the furling tail
                        > > on the right, but the instructables.com instruction from sspence has
                        > > the alternator in the center (as I would like to position mine) here:
                        >
                        >
                      • Dan Fink
                        Our design however does keep the alt centered and not off-set. we tried offsetting due to some advice we received, and found little difference. The off set
                        Message 11 of 28 , Dec 7, 2008
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                          Our design however does keep the alt centered and not off-set. we tried
                          offsetting due to some advice we received, and found little difference.
                          The off set gravity based furling system works regardless.

                          Steve Spence
                          http://www.green-trust.org

                          --------

                          I just don't understand, Steve -- no offense.

                          Are you POSITIVE that the turbine is furling out of the wind, and you
                          are not just observing the tail fold up and in? The tail should not be
                          moving at all....it's the *entire turbine* that rotates while yawing,
                          while the tail stays aligned with the wind at all times.

                          From what force does the turbine obtain its yawing moment if there is
                          no offset? I can't see any, unless you have added a pilot vane (see
                          the Wheeler waterpumper design from 100 years ago) and I don't see a
                          pilot vane in your photos.

                          Also please examine in detail all commercial small wind turbines that
                          use a furling tail (Bergey, Southwest Wind Power, ARE, AWP, and
                          more).... In every single one of them, the alternator is offset from
                          the yaw bearing; that's how the yaw moment force is obtained.

                          Both Hugh Piggott's book Wind Power Workshop and Paul Gipe's book
                          "Wind Power" describe the physics of a furling tail in detail.

                          Not trying to bust your chops here, but physics is physics and I want
                          to know where that yaw moment comes from if you have no offset and no
                          pilot vane.

                          DAN FINK
                          http://www.otherpower.com/
                          Co-Author: Homebrew Wind Power
                          ISBN 978-0-9819201-0-8
                          http://buckville.com/
                        • jerry freedomev
                          Hi Aaron and All, While tail furling like they use is ok it s one of many furling schemes. Besides the offset version some use a flat plate in the airstream to
                          Message 12 of 28 , Dec 7, 2008
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                            Hi Aaron and All,

                            While tail furling like they use is ok it's one of many furling schemes. Besides the offset version some use a flat plate in the airstream to power the furling.
                            One I like is the unit tilting up by pivoting it below the gen on it's aft side with a spring on the front side to hold it down.
                            Another is wind brakes like the Windcharger uses.
                            Variable pitch blades is another.
                            Tails really are not much use as they work in the slowed air. I've found units work fairly well even without a tail as the rotor disc area does most of the work.
                            A dowmwind unit only needs this and I find tracks much better than a tail type by a good amount and not as visually problematic in urban areas. It can use tilting up by pivoting the gen from above using a spring or gravity to bring it back down, adjust cut out speed.
                            But your original idea of letting it go faster, no furling can work if done right. While if let connected the coils might burn up but that can be solved by letting the voltage rise or disconnecting the gen altogether. A voltage clamp series power supply type regulator can do this cheaply.
                            My ideal is a downwind rotor with semi variable pitch blades and a voltage rise circuit and no other furling. I lay up fiberglass blades that by design change pitch as the wind speed increases, allowing full power to 50+ mph while keeping low speed performance.
                            Do the Magnatsforless blades really cost only $69 for all 3? That's really cheap, cheaper than I can make them though mine are variable pitch and very quiet. Anyone using them?

                            Jerry Dycus




                            .

                            --- On Wed, 12/3/08, ke5fdh <dag5267@...> wrote:

                            > From: ke5fdh <dag5267@...>
                            > Subject: [axialflux] Re: Furling Tail
                            > To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                            > Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 3:15 PM
                            > A furling tail protects at least three things; your tower,
                            > your turbine
                            > and your blades. Sounds like your blades might be covered.
                            > You might
                            > want to sacrifice your turbine, but it's not wise
                            > considering all of
                            > the work you'll put into it. I'd say the cost of a
                            > stronger tower will
                            > exceed the cost of a furling tail. I learned the hard way.
                            >
                            > --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron McCoy"
                            > <theringoffire67@...>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Hello all, I am building a 1kw axial flux turbine and
                            > want to know:
                            > > is a furling tail a necessity? I purchased the
                            > 10' diameter, 3 blade
                            > > fiberglass blades from magnets4less, so they are very
                            > strong and very
                            > > light. It says they can withstand heavy winds. I was
                            > going to
                            > > implement a pole that can pivot to lay down in case of
                            > real strong
                            > > winds (ie tornadoes [southern illinois]). Would this
                            > be enough? I
                            > > have pictures of what I have so far and some google
                            > sketchup designs
                            > > if you want to see them, but am trying to decide
                            > whether I want to
                            > put
                            > > the money into the furling tail system, or if a
                            > straight shaft/tail
                            > > will be sufficient.
                            > >
                            > > Thanks,
                            > > Aaron
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Group Email Addresses
                            > Related Link:
                            > http://www.green-trust.org/2006/06/axial-flux-permanent-magnet-alternator.html
                            > Post message: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subscribe: axialflux-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > Unsubscribe: axialflux-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > List owner: axialflux-owner@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups
                            > Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Aaron McCoy
                            The windspeed in my area averages around 12mph. It generally keeps pretty tolerable here. The only time it would get out of control is when severe storms are
                            Message 13 of 28 , Dec 7, 2008
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                              The windspeed in my area averages around 12mph. It generally keeps
                              pretty tolerable here. The only time it would get out of control is
                              when severe storms are about, like tornadoes. In those events, I
                              would want to lay down the tower anyway, so I think I may simply go
                              with a straight pole (no furling), and check into the voltage clamp
                              series power supply regulator you mentioned.

                              I got my blades from CMS magnetics:
                              http://www.magnet4sale.com/product.php?productid=16618&cat=0&page=1

                              This is also where I bought all of my magnets.

                              -Aaron


                              --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, jerry freedomev <freedomev@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > Hi Aaron and All,
                              >
                              > While tail furling like they use is ok it's one of
                              many furling schemes. Besides the offset version some use a flat
                              plate in the airstream to power the furling.
                              > One I like is the unit tilting up by pivoting it
                              below the gen on it's aft side with a spring on the front side to
                              hold it down.
                              > Another is wind brakes like the Windcharger uses.
                              > Variable pitch blades is another.
                              > Tails really are not much use as they work in the
                              slowed air. I've found units work fairly well even without a tail as
                              the rotor disc area does most of the work.
                              > A dowmwind unit only needs this and I find tracks
                              much better than a tail type by a good amount and not as visually
                              problematic in urban areas. It can use tilting up by pivoting the gen
                              from above using a spring or gravity to bring it back down, adjust
                              cut out speed.
                              > But your original idea of letting it go faster, no
                              furling can work if done right. While if let connected the coils
                              might burn up but that can be solved by letting the voltage rise or
                              disconnecting the gen altogether. A voltage clamp series power supply
                              type regulator can do this cheaply.
                              > My ideal is a downwind rotor with semi variable
                              pitch blades and a voltage rise circuit and no other furling. I lay
                              up fiberglass blades that by design change pitch as the wind speed
                              increases, allowing full power to 50+ mph while keeping low speed
                              performance.
                              > Do the Magnatsforless blades really cost only $69
                              for all 3? That's really cheap, cheaper than I can make them though
                              mine are variable pitch and very quiet. Anyone using them?
                              >
                              > Jerry Dycus
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > .
                              >
                              > --- On Wed, 12/3/08, ke5fdh <dag5267@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > From: ke5fdh <dag5267@...>
                              > > Subject: [axialflux] Re: Furling Tail
                              > > To: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 3:15 PM
                              > > A furling tail protects at least three things; your tower,
                              > > your turbine
                              > > and your blades. Sounds like your blades might be covered.
                              > > You might
                              > > want to sacrifice your turbine, but it's not wise
                              > > considering all of
                              > > the work you'll put into it. I'd say the cost of a
                              > > stronger tower will
                              > > exceed the cost of a furling tail. I learned the hard way.
                              > >
                              > > --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron McCoy"
                              > > <theringoffire67@>
                              > > wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Hello all, I am building a 1kw axial flux turbine and
                              > > want to know:
                              > > > is a furling tail a necessity? I purchased the
                              > > 10' diameter, 3 blade
                              > > > fiberglass blades from magnets4less, so they are very
                              > > strong and very
                              > > > light. It says they can withstand heavy winds. I was
                              > > going to
                              > > > implement a pole that can pivot to lay down in case of
                              > > real strong
                              > > > winds (ie tornadoes [southern illinois]). Would this
                              > > be enough? I
                              > > > have pictures of what I have so far and some google
                              > > sketchup designs
                              > > > if you want to see them, but am trying to decide
                              > > whether I want to
                              > > put
                              > > > the money into the furling tail system, or if a
                              > > straight shaft/tail
                              > > > will be sufficient.
                              > > >
                              > > > Thanks,
                              > > > Aaron
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ------------------------------------
                              > >
                              > > Group Email Addresses
                              > > Related Link:
                              > > http://www.green-trust.org/2006/06/axial-flux-permanent-
                              magnet-alternator.html
                              > > Post message: axialflux@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Subscribe: axialflux-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Unsubscribe: axialflux-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              > > List owner: axialflux-owner@...! Groups
                              > > Links
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • Wes Jones
                              On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 01:04:23 -0500, Aaron McCoy ... I m not sure messing with a steel tower is the best thing to do with violent storms in the area. Best, wes
                              Message 14 of 28 , Dec 8, 2008
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                                On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 01:04:23 -0500, Aaron McCoy
                                <theringoffire67@...> wrote:

                                > The only time it would get out of control is
                                > when severe storms are about, like tornadoes. In those events, I
                                > would want to lay down the tower anyway, so I think I may simply go
                                > with a straight pole (no furling), and check into the voltage clamp
                                > series power supply regulator you mentioned.

                                I'm not sure messing with a steel tower is the best thing to do with
                                violent storms in the area.

                                Best, wes

                                --
                                Listen to what they DO!
                              • Steve Spence
                                A steel monopole with guy wires, and the ability to crank down the tower if a severe storm is imminent is a typical application. Steve Spence
                                Message 15 of 28 , Dec 8, 2008
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                                  A steel monopole with guy wires, and the ability to crank down the tower
                                  if a severe storm is imminent is a typical application.

                                  Steve Spence
                                  http://www.green-trust.org

                                  Wes Jones wrote:
                                  > On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 01:04:23 -0500, Aaron McCoy
                                  > <theringoffire67@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >> The only time it would get out of control is
                                  >> when severe storms are about, like tornadoes. In those events, I
                                  >> would want to lay down the tower anyway, so I think I may simply go
                                  >> with a straight pole (no furling), and check into the voltage clamp
                                  >> series power supply regulator you mentioned.
                                  >
                                  > I'm not sure messing with a steel tower is the best thing to do with
                                  > violent storms in the area.
                                  >
                                  > Best, wes
                                  >
                                • Michael Vanecek
                                  Be sure to send us pictures when your mill explodes in the unexpected windstorm that can hit anywhere at any time. I m sure it ll be a lesson to the rest of us
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Dec 8, 2008
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                                    Be sure to send us pictures when your mill explodes in the unexpected
                                    windstorm that can hit anywhere at any time. I'm sure it'll be a lesson
                                    to the rest of us on making sure you design furling into your mill for
                                    others considering not using furling. At best, you'll have a short
                                    alternator life as things will tend to heat up, which degrades both
                                    battery and coils. At worst, shrapnel will hurt someone. At between,
                                    it'll just fragment and fall off the tower... In any case, not a good
                                    investment decision.

                                    Be well,
                                    Mike

                                    --
                                    Zone 8, Texas
                                    http://www.taroandti.com/ Exotic Plant Info and More...



                                    Aaron McCoy wrote:
                                    > The windspeed in my area averages around 12mph. It generally keeps
                                    > pretty tolerable here. The only time it would get out of control is
                                    > when severe storms are about, like tornadoes. In those events, I
                                    > would want to lay down the tower anyway, so I think I may simply go
                                    > with a straight pole (no furling), and check into the voltage clamp
                                    > series power supply regulator you mentioned.
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Michael Vanecek
                                    Oops - meant degrades both magnets and coils. Not sure where battery came from. -- Zone 8, Texas http://www.taroandti.com/ Exotic Plant Info and More...
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Dec 8, 2008
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                                      Oops - meant degrades both magnets and coils. Not sure where "battery"
                                      came from.

                                      --
                                      Zone 8, Texas
                                      http://www.taroandti.com/ Exotic Plant Info and More...



                                      Michael Vanecek wrote:
                                      > At best, you'll have a short
                                      > alternator life as things will tend to heat up, which degrades both
                                      > battery and coils.
                                    • Wes Jones
                                      Sure, one needs to protect the investment in time, money and labor. I m just not sure that s something I d want to be doing. But then I know of a guy who was
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Dec 8, 2008
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                                        Sure, one needs to protect the investment in time, money and labor. I'm
                                        just not sure that's something I'd want to be doing. But then I know of a
                                        guy who was struck by lightning in his yard twice several years apart and
                                        survived both times. And both times he was going to get the cow milked
                                        before the storm hit.

                                        Best, wes

                                        On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 10:27:16 -0500, Steve Spence <sspence@...>
                                        wrote:

                                        > A steel monopole with guy wires, and the ability to crank down the tower
                                        > if a severe storm is imminent is a typical application.
                                        >
                                        > Steve Spence
                                        > http://www.green-trust.org
                                        >
                                        > Wes Jones wrote:
                                        >> On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 01:04:23 -0500, Aaron McCoy
                                        >> <theringoffire67@...> wrote:
                                        >>
                                        >>> The only time it would get out of control is
                                        >>> when severe storms are about, like tornadoes. In those events, I
                                        >>> would want to lay down the tower anyway, so I think I may simply go
                                        >>> with a straight pole (no furling), and check into the voltage clamp
                                        >>> series power supply regulator you mentioned.
                                        >>
                                        >> I'm not sure messing with a steel tower is the best thing to do with
                                        >> violent storms in the area.
                                        >>
                                        >> Best, wes

                                        --
                                        Listen to what they DO!
                                      • Steve Spence
                                        So don t crank it down in a lightning storm. This is not a new scenario. Many of us have tilt down towers, but if winds are expected to be over 80 mph, it s
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Dec 8, 2008
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                                          So don't crank it down in a lightning storm. This is not a new scenario.
                                          Many of us have tilt down towers, but if winds are expected to be over
                                          80 mph, it's prudent to lock down the system.

                                          Steve Spence
                                          http://www.green-trust.org

                                          Wes Jones wrote:
                                          > Sure, one needs to protect the investment in time, money and labor. I'm
                                          > just not sure that's something I'd want to be doing. But then I know of a
                                          > guy who was struck by lightning in his yard twice several years apart and
                                          > survived both times. And both times he was going to get the cow milked
                                          > before the storm hit.
                                          >
                                          > Best, wes
                                          >
                                          > On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 10:27:16 -0500, Steve Spence <sspence@...>
                                          > wrote:
                                          >
                                          >> A steel monopole with guy wires, and the ability to crank down the tower
                                          >> if a severe storm is imminent is a typical application.
                                          >>
                                          >> Steve Spence
                                          >> http://www.green-trust.org
                                          >>
                                          >> Wes Jones wrote:
                                          >>> On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 01:04:23 -0500, Aaron McCoy
                                          >>> <theringoffire67@...> wrote:
                                          >>>
                                          >>>> The only time it would get out of control is
                                          >>>> when severe storms are about, like tornadoes. In those events, I
                                          >>>> would want to lay down the tower anyway, so I think I may simply go
                                          >>>> with a straight pole (no furling), and check into the voltage clamp
                                          >>>> series power supply regulator you mentioned.
                                          >>> I'm not sure messing with a steel tower is the best thing to do with
                                          >>> violent storms in the area.
                                          >>>
                                          >>> Best, wes
                                          >
                                        • Aaron McCoy
                                          Okay, okay, you pulled my arm, I ll go with a furling tail. I have a few questions about some of the angles, and the distance the rotor needs to be from the
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Dec 8, 2008
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                                            Okay, okay, you pulled my arm, I'll go with a furling tail. I have a
                                            few questions about some of the angles, and the distance the rotor
                                            needs to be from the pivot point, but I'll give you the link to some
                                            pictures of this when I get home.

                                            Basically, I have the X piece that holds the stator welded to an 8
                                            inch pipe. The rotors may not be as close to the pivot joing as most
                                            designs I've seen. So I could still make the altenator/tail offset,
                                            but it may look like this (if it did not print out proportionately,
                                            disregard, I'll link a pic later as I said):

                                            ||
                                            ||
                                            /|| furling tail
                                            ||
                                            ==[ ]== joint/pivot point
                                            ||
                                            || 8 inch long pipe
                                            ||
                                            /||\ X piece
                                            {====} magnets
                                            (@@@@@@) stator
                                            {====} magnets
                                            // || \\ blades


                                            --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "Wes Jones" <wes@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Sure, one needs to protect the investment in time, money and
                                            labor. I'm
                                            > just not sure that's something I'd want to be doing. But then I
                                            know of a
                                            > guy who was struck by lightning in his yard twice several years
                                            apart and
                                            > survived both times. And both times he was going to get the cow
                                            milked
                                            > before the storm hit.
                                            >
                                            > Best, wes
                                            >
                                            > On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 10:27:16 -0500, Steve Spence <sspence@...>
                                            > wrote:
                                            >
                                            > > A steel monopole with guy wires, and the ability to crank down
                                            the tower
                                            > > if a severe storm is imminent is a typical application.
                                            > >
                                            > > Steve Spence
                                            > > http://www.green-trust.org
                                            > >
                                            > > Wes Jones wrote:
                                            > >> On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 01:04:23 -0500, Aaron McCoy
                                            > >> <theringoffire67@...> wrote:
                                            > >>
                                            > >>> The only time it would get out of control is
                                            > >>> when severe storms are about, like tornadoes. In those events,
                                            I
                                            > >>> would want to lay down the tower anyway, so I think I may
                                            simply go
                                            > >>> with a straight pole (no furling), and check into the voltage
                                            clamp
                                            > >>> series power supply regulator you mentioned.
                                            > >>
                                            > >> I'm not sure messing with a steel tower is the best thing to do
                                            with
                                            > >> violent storms in the area.
                                            > >>
                                            > >> Best, wes
                                            >
                                            > --
                                            > Listen to what they DO!
                                            >
                                          • Wes Jones
                                            ... Best, wes On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 10:53:42 -0500, Steve Spence ... -- Listen to what they DO!
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Dec 8, 2008
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                                              :-)

                                              Best, wes

                                              On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 10:53:42 -0500, Steve Spence <sspence@...>
                                              wrote:

                                              > So don't crank it down in a lightning storm. This is not a new scenario.
                                              > Many of us have tilt down towers, but if winds are expected to be over
                                              > 80 mph, it's prudent to lock down the system.



                                              --
                                              Listen to what they DO!
                                            • David G. LeVine
                                              ... Wes makes a good point, a tall steel structure in a lightning storm will act as a lightning rod. Proper grounding practice is not a bad idea here. ... --
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Dec 8, 2008
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                                                Steve Spence wrote:
                                                > A steel monopole with guy wires, and the ability to crank down the tower
                                                > if a severe storm is imminent is a typical application.
                                                >
                                                > Steve Spence
                                                > http://www.green-trust.org
                                                >

                                                Wes makes a good point, a tall steel structure in a lightning storm will
                                                act as a lightning rod. Proper grounding practice is not a bad idea here.
                                                > Wes Jones wrote:
                                                >
                                                >> On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 01:04:23 -0500, Aaron McCoy
                                                >> <theringoffire67@...> wrote:
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >>> The only time it would get out of control is
                                                >>> when severe storms are about, like tornadoes. In those events, I
                                                >>> would want to lay down the tower anyway, so I think I may simply go
                                                >>> with a straight pole (no furling), and check into the voltage clamp
                                                >>> series power supply regulator you mentioned.
                                                >>>
                                                >> I'm not sure messing with a steel tower is the best thing to do with
                                                >> violent storms in the area.
                                                >>
                                                >> Best, wes


                                                --
                                                David G. LeVine
                                                Nashua, NH 03060
                                              • Steve Spence
                                                Proper grounding is not a good idea, it s a necessity. If you don t, expect a house fire as the current comes into the house and ignites your power room. Steve
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Dec 8, 2008
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                                                  Proper grounding is not a good idea, it's a necessity. If you don't,
                                                  expect a house fire as the current comes into the house and ignites your
                                                  power room.

                                                  Steve Spence
                                                  http://www.green-trust.org

                                                  David G. LeVine wrote:

                                                  > Wes makes a good point, a tall steel structure in a lightning storm will
                                                  > act as a lightning rod. Proper grounding practice is not a bad idea here.
                                                  >> Wes Jones wrote:
                                                  >>
                                                  >>> On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 01:04:23 -0500, Aaron McCoy
                                                  >>> <theringoffire67@...> wrote:
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>>> The only time it would get out of control is
                                                  >>>> when severe storms are about, like tornadoes. In those events, I
                                                  >>>> would want to lay down the tower anyway, so I think I may simply go
                                                  >>>> with a straight pole (no furling), and check into the voltage clamp
                                                  >>>> series power supply regulator you mentioned.
                                                  >>>>
                                                  >>> I'm not sure messing with a steel tower is the best thing to do with
                                                  >>> violent storms in the area.
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>> Best, wes
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                • David G. LeVine
                                                  ... See, improper grounding makes for a mice, warm house, for a little while... ;*P -- David G. LeVine Nashua, NH 03060
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Dec 8, 2008
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                                                    Steve Spence wrote:
                                                    > Proper grounding is not a good idea, it's a necessity. If you don't,
                                                    > expect a house fire as the current comes into the house and ignites your
                                                    > power room.

                                                    See, improper grounding makes for a mice, warm house, for a little
                                                    while... ;*P

                                                    --
                                                    David G. LeVine
                                                    Nashua, NH 03060
                                                  • Steve Spence
                                                    Mice? Fire? Lunch! Steve Spence http://www.green-trust.org
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Dec 9, 2008
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                                                      Mice? Fire? Lunch!

                                                      Steve Spence
                                                      http://www.green-trust.org

                                                      David G. LeVine wrote:
                                                      > Steve Spence wrote:
                                                      >> Proper grounding is not a good idea, it's a necessity. If you don't,
                                                      >> expect a house fire as the current comes into the house and ignites your
                                                      >> power room.
                                                      >
                                                      > See, improper grounding makes for a mice, warm house, for a little
                                                      > while... ;*P
                                                      >
                                                    • hdrackal
                                                      Maybe he should get some chickens instead ;o) Hayden ... know of a ... apart and ... milked ... ...
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Dec 9, 2008
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                                                        Maybe he should get some chickens instead ;o)
                                                        Hayden

                                                        <snip>
                                                        > just not sure that's something I'd want to be doing. But then I
                                                        know of a
                                                        > guy who was struck by lightning in his yard twice several years
                                                        apart and
                                                        > survived both times. And both times he was going to get the cow
                                                        milked
                                                        > before the storm hit.
                                                        <snip>
                                                        > >> I'm not sure messing with a steel tower is the best thing to do with
                                                        > >> violent storms in the area.
                                                        <snip>
                                                      • Wes Jones
                                                        ... On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 13:36:57 -0500, hdrackal ... -- Listen to what they DO!
                                                        Message 27 of 28 , Dec 9, 2008
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                                                          :-)
                                                          On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 13:36:57 -0500, hdrackal <hdrackal@...>
                                                          wrote:

                                                          > Maybe he should get some chickens instead ;o)
                                                          > Hayden
                                                          >
                                                          > <snip>
                                                          >> just not sure that's something I'd want to be doing. But then I
                                                          > know of a
                                                          >> guy who was struck by lightning in his yard twice several years
                                                          > apart and
                                                          >> survived both times. And both times he was going to get the cow
                                                          > milked...


                                                          --
                                                          Listen to what they DO!
                                                        • Aaron McCoy
                                                          Here is a link to my drawings and some pictures of what I have so far: http://aaronmmccoy.web.officelive.com/HP.aspx Please look over this and tell me if you
                                                          Message 28 of 28 , Dec 9, 2008
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                                                            Here is a link to my drawings and some pictures of what I have so far: http://aaronmmccoy.web.officelive.com/HP.aspx

                                                            Please look over this and tell me if you think the joint will work for
                                                            the furling tail even though the rotor is not as close to the joint as
                                                            others I have seen. If you download the google sketchup file (google
                                                            sketchup is a free modeling program) and open it up with sketchup, you
                                                            can see a 3d model of my wind turbine, along with all of the
                                                            measurements (with the tape measure tool).

                                                            Thanks,

                                                            Aaron McCoy.


                                                            --- In axialflux@yahoogroups.com, "hdrackal" <hdrackal@...> wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > Maybe he should get some chickens instead ;o)
                                                            > Hayden
                                                            >
                                                            > <snip>
                                                            > > just not sure that's something I'd want to be doing. But then I
                                                            > know of a
                                                            > > guy who was struck by lightning in his yard twice several years
                                                            > apart and
                                                            > > survived both times. And both times he was going to get the cow
                                                            > milked
                                                            > > before the storm hit.
                                                            > <snip>
                                                            > > >> I'm not sure messing with a steel tower is the best thing to do
                                                            with
                                                            > > >> violent storms in the area.
                                                            > <snip>
                                                            >
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