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  • lisa_r_from_canada
    Hi, just wanted to let you guys know that we re home and that Erica s doing pretty good. The nurse just comes over once a day to change the dressing. It all
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 1, 2002
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      Hi, just wanted to let you guys know that we're home and that Erica's
      doing pretty good. The nurse just comes over once a day to change the
      dressing. It all looks the same as it did last week, all we're
      waiting for now is for it to start healing. The plastic surgeon said
      she wasn't a candidate for plastic surgery yet so they're not planning
      anything.

      I've found that they don't explain themselves too well...I wonder if
      this could be a malpractice case. Either way, the knee release wasn't
      worth anything at all. We're even worse than what we were before we
      started this whole thing. We're gonna take digital pictures and I'm
      gonna email them to Dr Song in Seattle. I want to see what he has to
      say about this result. What do you guys think?

      Lisa R
    • Beki Disher
      Hey Lisa, Sorry to hear about the trouble. I had to go and look through the archive as Yahoo decided I don t exist anymore (harumph) I would consult a lawyer.
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 1, 2002
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        Hey Lisa,

        Sorry to hear about the trouble. I had to go and look through the
        archive as Yahoo decided I don't exist anymore (harumph)

        I would consult a lawyer. I don't know what personal injury/malpractice
        laws are like in Canada. I know that in the states you usually get the
        initial consult for free. A lawyer will be able to tell you weather or
        not you have a case.

        It sounds to me like they majorly messed up. She shouldn't have an open
        hole in her leg. If they did the release, there would be movement as the
        tendon isn't holding things in contracture. Other folks correct me
        please as Jason hasn't had one of these. I know the open hole sounds
        totally out of line. There is man made skin they could use to cover that
        hole. The docks were thinking of using some on jason if the not quite a
        hernia he has turns into a hernia.

        Dr Song wont tell you to sue them, but he can at least give some ideas
        on how to get this repaired. Possibly, you might make a good enough case
        to have all of her surgeries done at Children's. I don't know how your
        medical system works there. I know you had to go through hoops to get
        here the last time.

        Beki

        lisa_r_from_canada wrote:
        >
        > Hi, just wanted to let you guys know that we're home and that Erica's
        > doing pretty good. The nurse just comes over once a day to change the
        > dressing. It all looks the same as it did last week, all we're
        > waiting for now is for it to start healing. The plastic surgeon said
        > she wasn't a candidate for plastic surgery yet so they're not planning
        > anything.
        >
        > I've found that they don't explain themselves too well...I wonder if
        > this could be a malpractice case. Either way, the knee release wasn't
        > worth anything at all. We're even worse than what we were before we
        > started this whole thing. We're gonna take digital pictures and I'm
        > gonna email them to Dr Song in Seattle. I want to see what he has to
        > say about this result. What do you guys think?
        >
        > Lisa R
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > avenues2-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


        --
        Want to know how Jason is doing? His website is at:
        http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/j/jasontanner/
        Wonder what arthrogryposis is? Check out
        http://www.sonnet.com/avenues/pamphlet.html
        And just because I like the URL:
        http://www.confoozled.com/disabilities/amc.html
      • Anson & Caroline Chamblin
        Hi Lisa, I am sorry to hear about your surgery complications with Erica. Beki is right that one doctor won t tell you to sue another. Still it is worth
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 1, 2002
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          Hi Lisa,
          I am sorry to hear about your surgery complications with Erica. Beki is
          right that one doctor won't tell you to sue another. Still it is worth
          contacting them to find out what to do next to help Erica. Who recommended
          the release be done at this time? Just want you to know that we are
          thinking of you too, William (myson) may need a knee release sometime( he is
          7) as his right leg sticks mostly straight out.
          Caroline Chamblin
        • lisa_r_from_canada
          The reasons I would like to get in contact with Dr Song are as follows: #1 He knows what he s talking about. #2 Maybe he can tell me what the heck went so
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 1, 2002
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            The reasons I would like to get in contact with Dr Song are as
            follows:
            #1 He knows what he's talking about.
            #2 Maybe he can tell me what the heck went so wrong.
            #3 He can tell me what to do about it.
            #4 And by seeing the pictures I will send him, he'll be able to
            confirm that that hole shouldn't be there.

            That's all I need...If I can contact some doctors with experience with
            AMC and they all say that this surgery shouldn't have gone this way,
            I'm guessing I've got my case right there. I'm not quite sure about
            the Canadian laws either but I will look into it.

            I'm not necessarily doing it for the money... I'm doing this because
            Erica is in worst shape than she was before. This is only the second
            surgery, and we've had complications with the stitches before, just
            not as bad because they took care of it before it got worse. But now,
            Erica will need a dressing change on her knee EVERY day for the next
            year or so. The doctors had seen her the week before and said the
            stitches were infected...they just cleaned the incision, wrapped it up
            and sent us home. No anbiotics, nothing. That's when they should
            have done something, not wait until it got worse. And I want them to
            pay for it. Am I being out of line here? Please let me know... I
            don't want to get into this without getting some opinions on what I
            should do.
          • RLISFOLKS@aol.com
            In a message dated 6/1/02 3:52:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, lisa_r_from_canada@yahoo.com writes:
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 1, 2002
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              In a message dated 6/1/02 3:52:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
              lisa_r_from_canada@... writes:

              << Am I being out of line here? Please let me know... I
              don't want to get into this without getting some opinions on what I
              should do. >>

              I honestly don't know if you're being out of line or not. I do know, however,
              that sometimes bad outcomes do happen from procedures. Did your doctors tell
              you about there being a risk of infection prior to the procedure? Dr.
              Rajasich (probably misspelled his name...) here in Tacoma strongly goes over
              the what can go wrongs with us, when we're discussing procedures. Personally,
              I like that. It prepares you for the possibility.

              Dawn
            • Beki Disher
              You are doing the right thing. If he can give you alternatives etc and can convince whomever to get off their asses and send you to Children s for all of
              Message 6 of 14 , Jun 1, 2002
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                You are doing the right thing. If he can give you alternatives etc and
                can convince whomever to get off their asses and send you to Children's
                for all of Erica's surgeries, you will be a lot better off. If it turns
                out you do have a case(I personally think you do) I would sue their
                socks off. It will be a looong and tedious process, but you will be able
                to pay for Jessica's surgeries here instead of there where the doctors
                have proven themselves incompetent.

                I think I would send him a letter asking what can be done to repair the
                damage. Also, I would ask him to refer someone in Canada who has a clue.
                I don't know if your medical folks would let her have everything done
                here, and it would be good to get the name of someone who is more
                competent.

                The info that Dr Song would give you should be taken to a lawyer.
                especially if he gives you answers of what can be done. I am sure the
                lawyers in Canada have their own expert witnesses and what not that
                should be able to tell you the same thing Dr Song will. Your child
                should never be worse off after a surgery.

                Can you tell that this hits one of my hot buttons? :) I am ranting like
                a loon, but the fact that they sent her home without even some
                antibiotic ointment is criminal. I had an IV of antibiotics when I had
                the surgery to put the rod in my arm. I don't remember if we met before
                or after I had my surgery. If I were worse off, I would sue their socks
                off too!

                Lisa_r_from_canada wrote:
                >
                > The reasons I would like to get in contact with Dr Song are as
                > follows:
                > #1 He knows what he's talking about.
                > #2 Maybe he can tell me what the heck went so wrong.
                > #3 He can tell me what to do about it.
                > #4 And by seeing the pictures I will send him, he'll be able to
                > confirm that that hole shouldn't be there.
                >
                > That's all I need...If I can contact some doctors with experience with
                > AMC and they all say that this surgery shouldn't have gone this way,
                > I'm guessing I've got my case right there. I'm not quite sure about
                > the Canadian laws either but I will look into it.
                >
                > I'm not necessarily doing it for the money... I'm doing this because
                > Erica is in worst shape than she was before. This is only the second
                > surgery, and we've had complications with the stitches before, just
                > not as bad because they took care of it before it got worse. But now,
                > Erica will need a dressing change on her knee EVERY day for the next
                > year or so. The doctors had seen her the week before and said the
                > stitches were infected...they just cleaned the incision, wrapped it up
                > and sent us home. No anbiotics, nothing. That's when they should
                > have done something, not wait until it got worse. And I want them to
                > pay for it. Am I being out of line here? Please let me know... I
                > don't want to get into this without getting some opinions on what I
                > should do.
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > avenues2-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


                --
                Want to know how Jason is doing? His website is at:
                http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/j/jasontanner/
                Wonder what arthrogryposis is? Check out
                http://www.sonnet.com/avenues/pamphlet.html
                And just because I like the URL:
                http://www.confoozled.com/disabilities/amc.html
              • RLISFOLKS@aol.com
                In a message dated 6/1/02 5:48:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time, beki@attbi.com writes: As much as I
                Message 7 of 14 , Jun 1, 2002
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                  In a message dated 6/1/02 5:48:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time, beki@...
                  writes:

                  << Your child
                  should never be worse off after a surgery. >>


                  As much as I hate to argue this...medicine is not a perfect science. Even if
                  everyone does everything right, sometimes things go wrong. Not every surgery
                  is going to have a good outcome, it's just not going to happen.

                  Dawn
                • Beki Disher
                  I know that bad things can happen during or after a surgery. I know they call it practicing medicine for a reason. I don t know what happened in Erica s case,
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jun 1, 2002
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                    I know that bad things can happen during or after a surgery. I know they
                    call it practicing medicine for a reason. I don't know what happened in
                    Erica's case, but I cant see why she wasn't given antibiotics after
                    surgery. I have had surgery as has my son. I was told the risks involved
                    with each of us. We had antibiotics afterwards. Jason didn't end up
                    with a big hole where the stitches ripped themselves out.

                    It is my understanding that Erica didn't have antibiotics. The fact that
                    she had problems with stitches and infection before should have pointed
                    the docs to take extra precautions. They apparently did not elect to do
                    that. In my opinion, they were negligent.

                    The docs should have read the charts about previous surgeries. I am not
                    saying that they didn't, but it sure appears that way. Had they given
                    her antibiotics and checked the stitches and done something once they
                    noticed them pulling apart, that would be different. From what I gather
                    from Lisa, it sure sounds like they didn't any of that. Mind you, I
                    haven't read the whole saga as Yahoo has been blacklisted from my ISP
                    for the repeat sends of that worm virus on Avenues. As usual IANAL and
                    IANAD, YMMV, etc etc etc yadda yadda yadda

                    B

                    RLISFOLKS@... wrote:
                    >
                    > In a message dated 6/1/02 5:48:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time, beki@...
                    > writes:
                    >
                    > << Your child
                    > should never be worse off after a surgery. >>
                    >
                    > As much as I hate to argue this...medicine is not a perfect science. Even if
                    > everyone does everything right, sometimes things go wrong. Not every surgery
                    > is going to have a good outcome, it's just not going to happen.
                    >
                    > Dawn
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > avenues2-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


                    --
                    Want to know how Jason is doing? His website is at:
                    http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/j/jasontanner/
                    Wonder what arthrogryposis is? Check out
                    http://www.sonnet.com/avenues/pamphlet.html
                    And just because I like the URL:
                    http://www.confoozled.com/disabilities/amc.html
                  • lisa_r_from_canada
                    I m no expert on surgeries and stuff like that, but I don t think stitches are supposed to undo themselves. And they may have done the surgery the way they
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jun 1, 2002
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                      I'm no expert on surgeries and stuff like that, but I don't think
                      stitches are supposed to undo themselves. And they may have done the
                      surgery the way they were supposed to, but I think they screwed up on
                      the first visit where they told me she had an infection and didn't do
                      anything about it. They should have given her antibiotics or cream or
                      something. We were told beforehand that there was a risk of infection
                      after surgery, as with any surgery... That's it. I was never told,
                      or ever heard of an incision opening up the way Erica's did. Even the
                      stitches on the inside were undone. We can see her knee cap. It is
                      really hard to explain, you almost have to see it to beleive it. When
                      I get pictures, I'll post them on here so you all can see what I mean.
                      Most of my family didn't beleive me until they saw it themselves. Now
                      they know why I want to do something about it. The point is that this
                      surgery was completely worthless because her knee is now in a slab
                      that keeps it bent. The reason for the surgery was to straighten it.
                      Now it will heal in a bent position, which takes about a year. That
                      brings us to square one again...
                    • RLISFOLKS@aol.com
                      In a message dated 6/1/02 7:54:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time, lisa_r_from_canada@yahoo.com writes:
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jun 1, 2002
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                        In a message dated 6/1/02 7:54:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
                        lisa_r_from_canada@... writes:

                        << I was never told,
                        or ever heard of an incision opening up the way Erica's did. Even the
                        stitches on the inside were undone. We can see her knee cap. It is
                        really hard to explain, you almost have to see it to beleive it. >>


                        I am so sorry this happened....I know it's got to be horrible to deal with. I
                        do know, though, that deep wounds opening up or refusing to close when there
                        is a big infection present isn't always the worst thing. It allows the wound
                        to heal from the inside out...and for the infection to be able to drain.

                        Dawn
                      • lisa_r_from_canada
                        I know that, but none of this would have happened if they would have treated the infection the first time they saw her in clinic after her surgery. They told
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jun 2, 2002
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                          I know that, but none of this would have happened if they would have
                          treated the infection the first time they saw her in clinic after her
                          surgery. They told me there was an infection, why didn't they give
                          her anything? Now we're stuck with at least a year of pain and
                          suffering, possibly plastic surgery, a nurse that comes into our home
                          EVERY day so they can change the dressing. That means we won't be
                          able to get away for a weekend for the next year or so because the
                          dressing change has to be done every day. It puts our life on hold...
                          Do you know what I mean?

                          Lisa R
                        • Sandie Dozark
                          Dr. Song at Childrens in Seattle is the best, we have seen him since teja was in infant and she is almost 6yrs now. Sandie and teja lisa_r_from_canada
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jun 2, 2002
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                            Dr. Song at Childrens in Seattle is the best, we have seen him since teja was in infant and she is almost 6yrs now.
                            Sandie and teja
                            lisa_r_from_canada <lisa_r_from_canada@...> wrote: The reasons I would like to get in contact with Dr Song are as
                            follows:
                            #1 He knows what he's talking about.
                            #2 Maybe he can tell me what the heck went so wrong.
                            #3 He can tell me what to do about it.
                            #4 And by seeing the pictures I will send him, he'll be able to
                            confirm that that hole shouldn't be there.

                            That's all I need...If I can contact some doctors with experience with
                            AMC and they all say that this surgery shouldn't have gone this way,
                            I'm guessing I've got my case right there. I'm not quite sure about
                            the Canadian laws either but I will look into it.

                            I'm not necessarily doing it for the money... I'm doing this because
                            Erica is in worst shape than she was before. This is only the second
                            surgery, and we've had complications with the stitches before, just
                            not as bad because they took care of it before it got worse. But now,
                            Erica will need a dressing change on her knee EVERY day for the next
                            year or so. The doctors had seen her the week before and said the
                            stitches were infected...they just cleaned the incision, wrapped it up
                            and sent us home. No anbiotics, nothing. That's when they should
                            have done something, not wait until it got worse. And I want them to
                            pay for it. Am I being out of line here? Please let me know... I
                            don't want to get into this without getting some opinions on what I
                            should do.


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                          • reltectec@aol.com
                            In a message dated 6/1/02 5:55:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, RLISFOLKS@aol.com ... Dawn, you are right! That is the main reason I personally haven t let them do
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jun 3, 2002
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                              In a message dated 6/1/02 5:55:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, RLISFOLKS@...
                              writes:


                              > As much as I hate to argue this...medicine is not a perfect science. Even if
                              >
                              > everyone does everything right, sometimes things go wrong. Not every
                              > surgery
                              > is going to have a good outcome, it's just not going to happen.
                              >
                              > Dawn
                              >

                              Dawn, you are right! That is the main reason I personally haven't let them do
                              all these things to my son! Sure you hear about the great ones and then you
                              hear the nightmares like this.
                              My friends daughter had the same thing happen to her leg at UCLA in Ca. but
                              you know i think it really isn't the doctors fault it has something to do
                              with the skin of the child. I don't know how to explain it but you will
                              notice that some of the kids and adults with amc don't have skin that is as
                              plyable sp? as other peoples so it won't close up the same way... in time it
                              will. Kyra's did and to this day it really don't look to good. It accually
                              looks like a shark took a bite out of her leg. But really what is it that
                              they can do about it? NOTHING! If it don't heal well the first time it isn't
                              going to with the plastic surgery either!!!
                              traci


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • tjohns7147@cs.com
                              Lisa- It sounds to me that possibly there was not enough skin to close up the incision once her knee was straight. they probably should have done this surgery
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jun 3, 2002
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                                Lisa-
                                It sounds to me that possibly there was not enough skin to close up the
                                incision once her knee was straight. they probably should have done this
                                surgery in stages, not all at once. This was a possibility with TJ's foot
                                surgery when they brought his feet up from a straight down position. Our
                                prayers are with you.
                                Sharon and TJ
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