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RE: Avant or Progressive

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  • fiveknuckle147
    Firstly I would like to say in my defence, that I had just drunk a bottle of Avant-Shiraz before posting my original question. ... I suppose I felt that it was
    Message 1 of 4 , Oct 30, 2005
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      Firstly I would like to say in my defence, that I had just drunk a
      bottle of Avant-Shiraz before posting my original question.

      >What would I consider to be avant-garde music?

      I suppose I felt that it was to some degree music that had very little
      rhythm or "musicality" (for want of a better word!) with a proportion
      of content drawn up from a Graphical Score ie. Music which is written
      or conceived in the form of diagrams, drawings or concepts rather than
      using "conventional" notation (with staves, clefs, notes etc.).
      Having said that (and also halfway through a rather nice Australian
      Merlot) could Biota be written with conventional notation? I am
      ignorant of what music discussed in this group could and couldn't be.

      >Saying "the two" ("Avant" / "Progressive" shows a misunderstanding?

      Yes, Apologies for my ignorance. Of course Steve F's "Avant" wasn't
      aimed towards "Avant-Garde" although it would be interesting to
      discover if any members considered any of the Artists discussed here
      to fall under the "Avant-Garde" umbrella.

      >[MAP] This goes back again to your idiosyncratic usage of the term
      >"avant-garde", but from my perspective a very large portion (maybe
      >about half) of the Cuneiform catalog is avant-garde.

      Surely not! Would this not be considered liberal usage of the term
      "Avant-Garde"? Regardless Mike, I appreciated your comments and agree
      with your much of what you pulled me up on. Apart from the Soft
      Machine comment. :-)

      Steve D
    • Michael Anton Parker
      [SteveD] I suppose I felt that it was to some degree music that had very little rhythm or musicality (for want of a better word!) with a proportion of
      Message 2 of 4 , Oct 31, 2005
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        [SteveD] I suppose I felt that it was to some degree music that had very little
        rhythm or "musicality" (for want of a better word!) with a proportion
        of content drawn up from a Graphical Score ie. Music which is written
        or conceived in the form of diagrams, drawings or concepts rather than
        using "conventional" notation (with staves, clefs, notes etc.).

        [MAP] The bulk of music made currently and the past, avant-garde or
        otherwise, doesn't use any form of notation. Overall, the primary
        methods are oral traditions, improvisation, and, as of recently,
        constructing recordings directly using tape, computers, etc. In the
        relatively minor category of notated music, surely no more than
        .00001% of the music involves graphical scores in any way. So
        graphical scores don't in any way characterize avant-garde music.

        Not sure what you mean about Soft Machine... One of my all-time top
        favorite bands and likewise for most folks around these parts... :-)

        That was pretty funny about the "avant" liquor thing!

        -Mike (no auto sig on this computer...)
      • Pierre Tassone
        Michael, I think you re SO wrong on that. John Cage, just to name one big example made use of untraditional graphic scores calling for diagrams or other
        Message 3 of 4 , Nov 1, 2005
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          Michael, I think you're SO wrong on that. John Cage, just to name one big
          example made use of untraditional graphic scores calling for diagrams or
          other patterns (and so did many others as well). And if you take modern
          avant-garde music from today, what's more graphic than a computer or how
          would you describe the live use of laptops ... huum? Never seen the nice
          waves dancing on a screen? Well the score is just in front of your eyes and
          can be fixed on paper .... if necessary or wished so by the composer.

          Here are a few interesting links that may help to revise your assumptions.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_music

          http://www.users.waitrose.com/~chobbs/hist.html

          http://www.aigany.org/ideas/features/merz.html


          Graphically yours, avant and after,

          Pierre




          -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
          Fra: avant-progressive@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:avant-progressive@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Michael Anton Parker
          Sendt: 1. november 2005 06:04
          Til: avant-progressive@yahoogroups.com
          Emne: Re: [avant-progressive] RE: Avant or Progressive

          [MAP] So graphical scores don't in any way characterize avant-garde music.
        • Greg Newton
          Thanks for the great links, Pierre. Greg Newton NP Natto Quartet - Thousand Oaks ... From: Pierre Tassone To:
          Message 4 of 4 , Nov 1, 2005
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            Thanks for the great links, Pierre.
            Greg Newton
            NP Natto Quartet - Thousand Oaks
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Pierre Tassone" <musbymail@...>
            To: <avant-progressive@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 6:45 AM
            Subject: SV: [avant-progressive] RE: Avant or Progressive


            Michael, I think you're SO wrong on that. John Cage, just to name one big
            example made use of untraditional graphic scores calling for diagrams or
            other patterns (and so did many others as well). And if you take modern
            avant-garde music from today, what's more graphic than a computer or how
            would you describe the live use of laptops ... huum? Never seen the nice
            waves dancing on a screen? Well the score is just in front of your eyes and
            can be fixed on paper .... if necessary or wished so by the composer.

            Here are a few interesting links that may help to revise your assumptions.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_music

            http://www.users.waitrose.com/~chobbs/hist.html

            http://www.aigany.org/ideas/features/merz.html


            Graphically yours, avant and after,

            Pierre




            -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
            Fra: avant-progressive@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:avant-progressive@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Michael Anton Parker
            Sendt: 1. november 2005 06:04
            Til: avant-progressive@yahoogroups.com
            Emne: Re: [avant-progressive] RE: Avant or Progressive

            [MAP] So graphical scores don't in any way characterize avant-garde music.






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