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RE: [australianherps] Urgent help with frog...

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  • Richard Francis
    Tonya, If it is a wild animal it really should be left to do what wild things do. This is not a situation where an animal has been accidentally injured or
    Message 1 of 6 , May 31, 2006
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      Tonya,

      If it is a wild animal it really should be left to do what wild things
      do. This is not a situation where an animal has been accidentally
      injured or harmed as a result of human activities.

      I am not sure what the route cause of the abnormality is (frog husbandry
      is not my area) but interference with survivorship of an individual that
      may have heritable characteristics potentially harmful to the local
      population is to be avoided.

      Regards,


      Richard Francis

      richardfrancis@...
      Mob: 0414 475 654

      Abzeco Pty Ltd
      Ph: 03 9456 9922 Fax: 03 9456 9087
      5 Glover Street, Heidelberg Heights VIC 3081
      www.abzeco.com.au
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      -----Original Message-----
      From: australianherps@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:australianherps@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tonya
      Sent: Thursday, 1 June 2006 12:59 PM
      To: australianherps@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [australianherps] Urgent help with frog...

      Hi, I have a pond in my garden that is home to green tree frogs, and
      several months ago they had tadpoes. They have been turning to little
      green froglets over the last 3 months, but there is atleast one that is
      not fully a frog yet. I caught him today by accident while removing
      some plants and adding a bit of water due to lack of rain. This little
      Tadpole/froglet is maybe 3-5 days from leaving the water according to
      size and develpment, and I thought his head looked a bit funny. I
      looked closer and it is his head and front right arm. His right arm
      looks fully deveoped but is actually inside the skin on his head... you
      can see through the skin a bit on the underside, so that is how I can
      tell...
      I know that if I take him to the vet they will just want to put him
      down, but I am wondering if he has a chance at survival. He looks to be
      healthy otherwise, and is active. Do I just wait and see what happens
      in the next few days? Please if you have any advise let me know.

      Tonya.











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    • stephen.weir@csiro.au
      Tonya, It sounds normal. The limb develops inside the body cavity then emerges. Leave it be for the next few days or a week and see what happens. I m a bit
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 1, 2006
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        Tonya,

        It sounds normal. The limb develops inside the body cavity then
        emerges. Leave it be for the next few days or a week and see what
        happens.

        I'm a bit surprised they're still metamorphing this late. It was a late start to the breeding season, but they should be metamorphosed within three-four months.

        Steve

        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: australianherps@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:australianherps@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tonya
        > Sent: Thursday, 1 June 2006 12:59 PM
        > To: australianherps@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [australianherps] Urgent help with frog...
        >
        >
        > Hi, I have a pond in my garden that is home to green tree frogs, and
        > several months ago they had tadpoes. They have been turning to little
        > green froglets over the last 3 months, but there is atleast
        > one that is
        > not fully a frog yet. I caught him today by accident while removing
        > some plants and adding a bit of water due to lack of rain.
        > This little
        > Tadpole/froglet is maybe 3-5 days from leaving the water according to
        > size and develpment, and I thought his head looked a bit funny. I
        > looked closer and it is his head and front right arm. His right arm
        > looks fully deveoped but is actually inside the skin on his
        > head... you
        > can see through the skin a bit on the underside, so that is how I can
        > tell...
        > I know that if I take him to the vet they will just want to put him
        > down, but I am wondering if he has a chance at survival. He
        > looks to be
        > healthy otherwise, and is active. Do I just wait and see what happens
        > in the next few days? Please if you have any advise let me know.
        >
        > Tonya.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • Shane
        I had several green tree frog spawns in my backyard pond this season and still have quite a few tadpoles at different stages.. I noticed that rocket frogs
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 1, 2006
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          I had several green tree frog spawns in my backyard pond this season and still have quite a few tadpoles at different stages.. I noticed that rocket frogs spawned there about 2 weeks ago which suprised me somewhat.

          Shane
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: stephen.weir@...
          To: australianherps@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 5:11 PM
          Subject: RE: [australianherps] Urgent help with frog...


          Tonya,

          It sounds normal. The limb develops inside the body cavity then
          emerges. Leave it be for the next few days or a week and see what
          happens.

          I'm a bit surprised they're still metamorphing this late. It was a late start to the breeding season, but they should be metamorphosed within three-four months.

          Steve

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: australianherps@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:australianherps@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tonya
          > Sent: Thursday, 1 June 2006 12:59 PM
          > To: australianherps@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [australianherps] Urgent help with frog...
          >
          >
          > Hi, I have a pond in my garden that is home to green tree frogs, and
          > several months ago they had tadpoes. They have been turning to little
          > green froglets over the last 3 months, but there is atleast
          > one that is
          > not fully a frog yet. I caught him today by accident while removing
          > some plants and adding a bit of water due to lack of rain.
          > This little
          > Tadpole/froglet is maybe 3-5 days from leaving the water according to
          > size and develpment, and I thought his head looked a bit funny. I
          > looked closer and it is his head and front right arm. His right arm
          > looks fully deveoped but is actually inside the skin on his
          > head... you
          > can see through the skin a bit on the underside, so that is how I can
          > tell...
          > I know that if I take him to the vet they will just want to put him
          > down, but I am wondering if he has a chance at survival. He
          > looks to be
          > healthy otherwise, and is active. Do I just wait and see what happens
          > in the next few days? Please if you have any advise let me know.
          >
          > Tonya.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > --------------------~-->
          > You can search right from your browser? It's easy and it's
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          > --------------------------------------------------------------
          > ------~->
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          >
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          >
          >
          >
          >
          >




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        • stephen.weir@csiro.au
          Shane, Please keep the list updated as to the fate of the rocket frog spawn. It will be interesting to see what happens. I assume you mean Litoria nasuta,
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 1, 2006
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            Shane,

            Please keep the list updated as to the fate of the rocket frog spawn.
            It will be interesting to see what happens. I assume you mean Litoria
            nasuta, which would usually only breed as late as February or maybe
            April. Most Australian treefrogs are opportunistic breeders, so the
            decision to breed may have been influenced dry conditions over the
            spring/summer in your area, or perhaps a warmer autumn?

            In my experience there are usually a few of every spawn who don't quite
            metamorph. It may be a genetic thing, or perhaps they just can't
            compete for food initially and the water gets too cold for further
            growth, so they die. Considering the number of eggs in a spawn some
            attrition is expected.

            Most treefrogs don't overwinter, or though there are autumn-winter
            breeders who are the exception. Treefrogs usually spawn and then
            metamorph in the warmer spring/summer months, over a period of a few
            months, although some do it in six weeks. It depends on climate, which
            influences water temperature, which influences growth rate.

            If you could record the temperature of the water where the tadpoles are
            every few days (or once a week) it would certainly add to the knowledge
            of the species and be interesting if they did survive the winter.

            FWIW, I keep several GTF's outdoors in Newcastle, and mine stopped
            feeding about six to eight weeks ago, and I haven't seen them for the
            past month. Nighttime low's are around the 5-10 mark now, with daytimes
            high teens to low twenties. Typically I won't see them again until
            September. I'm not sure if a frog who metamorphed in the last few weeks
            would have the body reserves to survive a "hibernation". Once again
            anything you can add about any metamorphing GTF's and their survival
            would be much appreciated. I can't imagine them eating or going far
            from their pond.

            Thanks for some interesting info.

            Steve

            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: australianherps@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:australianherps@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shane
            > Sent: Thursday, 1 June 2006 6:28 PM
            > To: australianherps@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [australianherps] Urgent help with frog...
            >
            >
            > I had several green tree frog spawns in my backyard pond this
            > season and still have quite a few tadpoles at different
            > stages.. I noticed that rocket frogs spawned there about 2
            > weeks ago which surprised me somewhat.
            >
            > Shane
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: stephen.weir@...
            > To: australianherps@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 5:11 PM
            > Subject: RE: [australianherps] Urgent help with frog...
            >
            >
            > Tonya,
            >
            > It sounds normal. The limb develops inside the body cavity then
            > emerges. Leave it be for the next few days or a week and see what
            > happens.
            >
            > I'm a bit surprised they're still metamorphing this late.
            > It was a late start to the breeding season, but they should
            > be metamorphosed within three-four months.
            >
            > Steve
            >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: australianherps@yahoogroups.com
            > > [mailto:australianherps@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tonya
            > > Sent: Thursday, 1 June 2006 12:59 PM
            > > To: australianherps@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [australianherps] Urgent help with frog...
            > >
            > >
            > > Hi, I have a pond in my garden that is home to green tree
            > frogs, and
            > > several months ago they had tadpoes. They have been
            > turning to little
            > > green froglets over the last 3 months, but there is atleast
            > > one that is
            > > not fully a frog yet. I caught him today by accident
            > while removing
            > > some plants and adding a bit of water due to lack of rain.
            > > This little
            > > Tadpole/froglet is maybe 3-5 days from leaving the water
            > according to
            > > size and develpment, and I thought his head looked a bit funny. I
            > > looked closer and it is his head and front right arm. His
            > right arm
            > > looks fully deveoped but is actually inside the skin on his
            > > head... you
            > > can see through the skin a bit on the underside, so that
            > is how I can
            > > tell...
            > > I know that if I take him to the vet they will just want
            > to put him
            > > down, but I am wondering if he has a chance at survival. He
            > > looks to be
            > > healthy otherwise, and is active. Do I just wait and see
            > what happens
            > > in the next few days? Please if you have any advise let me know.
            > >
            > > Tonya.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > > --------------------~-->
            > > You can search right from your browser? It's easy and it's
            > > free. See how.
            > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/_7bhrC/NGxNAA/yQLSAA/APOolB/TM
            > > --------------------------------------------------------------
            > > ------~->
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > SPONSORED LINKS Australian florist Australian visa
            > Reptile supplies
            > Australian tourist visa Australian business visa
            > Australian hat
            >
            >
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            > a.. Visit your group "australianherps" on the web.
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          • Tonya Ball
            Thank you everyone! I brought it inside for the night as it was very cold, and it seems very happy and to my surprise this morning its arm had popped out! Its
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 2, 2006
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              Thank you everyone! I brought it inside for the night as it was very cold,
              and it seems very happy and to my surprise this morning its arm had popped
              out! Its tail is a bit shorter today and it is more of a brighter green. It
              seems to be acting normal, and hopping around a bit and clinging to the
              wall.
              Stephen said "I'm not sure if a frog who metamorphed in the last few weeks
              would have the body reserves to survive a "hibernation". Is there any way I
              could keep this little guy until it warms up in september to fatten him up
              so he can survive? I checked the pond thouroghly and there are no more
              tadpoles in there. It is getting down to 1-0c at night already, and I don't
              feel like I can evict him and "let him die". When I was younger I used to
              raise thadpoles to frogs as a child, and I know how to take care of them
              temporarily, have done so for 2 weeks. Do you think at this age it'd
              survive, and if so, would he be well enough to release again when it gets
              warmer or too dependant?
              Thank you for your help, and I am so happy he was able to get that arm out.
              :) I didn't know that the arm developed inside its head.
              Tonya


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