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Something to mull over

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  • thirtyinchfan
    Here is something to mull over while munching your hot cross buns. Most are famillier with the QR class 9-1/2 Fowler 0-6-2. (If not look here:
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 1, 2010
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      Here is something to mull over while munching your hot cross buns.

      Most are famillier with the QR class 9-1/2 Fowler 0-6-2. (If not look here: http://www.zelmeroz.com/album_rail/qld/jf72/jf_i10.jpg ). There is an On30 kit available, and I can work a small 0-6-2 into the history of my C&BFT.

      The problem is that I'd need to do a bit of work to make it look as if it fits. Specifically I'd have to convert a 1920's loco built for tropical Queensland to look like one built in the early 1890's for a southern Victorian line, and further model it as it might have appeared, given reasonable maintainance, in the mid 1920's. So what should I do? Any thoughts?

      Cheers,

      Michael
    • David R Axup
      G day Michael, Assuming that one of your principal concerns is the openness of the cab that is not really a problem for a loco built in the 1890 s. A quick
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 1, 2010
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        G'day Michael,

        Assuming that one of your principal concerns is the openness of the cab that
        is not really a problem for a loco built in the 1890's. A quick scan
        through my ancient copy of Power Parade shows that a large number of VR
        locos from that period had pretty open cabs. A screen across the front of
        the cab with two rectangular or circular windows and a small square or
        curvilinear "wing" coming back from the screen on both sides and you would
        have a cab that would be right at home on an 1890's built loco.

        As an alternative to the small wing [I haven't a clue what the technical
        term for it is] you could make the sides with either one or two windows and
        that would be just as faithful to the period.

        A photo of the 2-4-2 E Class [built 1888 to 1894] shows round windows in the
        front and wing coming half way back to the entry/exit to the cab.

        I don't think crew comfort was high on their list of priorities back then.

        If you like I can bring my copy of Power Parade to Nobelius for you to have
        a look through and then I can scan any photos you want for reference.

        I had a good look at a complete and painted example of this kit at Berg's
        Hobbies in Parramatta a couple of weeks ago and it is a lovely little loco.
        I can't solder for nuts so I dismissed the idea of buying one immediately
        before temptation got the better of me.

        Cheers,

        David
        -----Original Message-----
        From: ausnarrowgauge@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ausnarrowgauge@yahoogroups.com]
        On Behalf Of thirtyinchfan
        Sent: Friday, 2 April 2010 1:20 PM
        To: ausnarrowgauge@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [ausnarrowgauge] Something to mull over

        Here is something to mull over while munching your hot cross buns.

        Most are famillier with the QR class 9-1/2 Fowler 0-6-2. (If not look here:
        http://www.zelmeroz.com/album_rail/qld/jf72/jf_i10.jpg ). There is an On30
        kit available, and I can work a small 0-6-2 into the history of my C&BFT.

        The problem is that I'd need to do a bit of work to make it look as if it
        fits. Specifically I'd have to convert a 1920's loco built for tropical
        Queensland to look like one built in the early 1890's for a southern
        Victorian line, and further model it as it might have appeared, given
        reasonable maintainance, in the mid 1920's. So what should I do? Any
        thoughts?

        Cheers,

        Michael



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      • Mike Bickford
        Hi Michael, An interesting idea, back dating the Innisfail Fowler tender loco. At least the tender looks old style already Using some of the 1890 s cane
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 1, 2010
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          Hi Michael,

          An interesting idea, back dating the Innisfail Fowler tender loco. At least
          the tender looks old style already
          Using some of the 1890's cane Fowler tank locos for ideas - no domes, a
          raised top firebox and a very open cab on posts, without the turndown edges.
          To give some indication of updating, maybe some sort of 'homebuilt' cab
          enclosure to improve conditions for the driver and fireman, plus some form
          of improved sanding gear.
          The Burrinjuck Dam line in southern NSW had a Fowler 0-6-0T 'Kate', with a
          typical open cab. It did have a canvas front sheet fitted, complete with
          circular porthole openings.
          Many of the older cane Fowlers ended up as tank and tender, however a tender
          only loco has a bit more 'class' to my eyes.
          http://www.australiansteam.com/sugarframe.htm can help with ideas for what
          earlier Fowlers looked like.

          cheers,
          Mike Bickford
          Berowra & Nalya Tramway
          Sydney, Australia
          www.ritginc.org


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "thirtyinchfan" <michaelhome@...>
          To: <ausnarrowgauge@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 1:19 PM
          Subject: [ausnarrowgauge] Something to mull over


          > Here is something to mull over while munching your hot cross buns.
          >
          > Most are famillier with the QR class 9-1/2 Fowler 0-6-2. (If not look
          > here: http://www.zelmeroz.com/album_rail/qld/jf72/jf_i10.jpg ). There is
          > an On30 kit available, and I can work a small 0-6-2 into the history of my
          > C&BFT.
          >
          > The problem is that I'd need to do a bit of work to make it look as if it
          > fits. Specifically I'd have to convert a 1920's loco built for tropical
          > Queensland to look like one built in the early 1890's for a southern
          > Victorian line, and further model it as it might have appeared, given
          > reasonable maintainance, in the mid 1920's. So what should I do? Any
          > thoughts?
          >
          > Cheers,
          >
          > Michael
        • ianj0trains
          Hi Michael, I think if you re worried about making it look correct there is a bigger issue than items like the cab front sheet etc. I understand the B 9&1/2
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 2, 2010
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            Hi Michael,

            I think if you're worried about making it look correct there is a bigger issue than items like the cab front sheet etc. I understand the B 9&1/2 was chosen by the manufacturer to release as a kit as it uses the same mechanism as the Bundy Fowler, specifically it has Walschaerts valve gear. Walshaerts although invented in 1840, was not commonly used until locomotives go larger, and really only became standard in the 20th century.

            The vast majority of narrow gauge engines built in the 19th century had Stephensons, or for some American built locos, Bakers. While I'm sure there will have been exceptions, a quick look through some of my reference books from various manufacturers failed to come up with any 19th century 2' or 2'6" locos with Walshaerts. I think having that valve gear on it would make it a tad difficult to pass off as a 19th century built loco.

            It was possibly the WW1 use of light railways that encouraged the change over on smaller locos to Walshaerts, as it meant the valve gear could all be accessed and oiled with the loco standing anywhere, they didn't need a pit, something that really is essential for decent access to oil the motion on a 2' or 2'6" loco with Stephensons.

            See you on the 18th, cheers

            Ian J




            --- In ausnarrowgauge@yahoogroups.com, "thirtyinchfan" <michaelhome@...> wrote:
            >
            > Here is something to mull over while munching your hot cross buns.
            >
            > Most are famillier with the QR class 9-1/2 Fowler 0-6-2. (If not look here: http://www.zelmeroz.com/album_rail/qld/jf72/jf_i10.jpg ). There is an On30 kit available, and I can work a small 0-6-2 into the history of my C&BFT.
            >
            > The problem is that I'd need to do a bit of work to make it look as if it fits. Specifically I'd have to convert a 1920's loco built for tropical Queensland to look like one built in the early 1890's for a southern Victorian line, and further model it as it might have appeared, given reasonable maintainance, in the mid 1920's. So what should I do? Any thoughts?
            >
            > Cheers,
            >
            > Michael
            >
          • Mike Bickford
            Good point Ian J, Luckily, most Fowlers used outside Joy valve gear at that time, which looks similar visually to Walshaerts. Fowler adopted Walshaerts gear
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 2, 2010
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              Good point Ian J,

              Luckily, most Fowlers used outside Joy valve gear at that time, which looks
              similar visually to Walshaerts. Fowler adopted Walshaerts gear in the
              1920's (ie after WW1)
              Alternatively, the outside valve gear could be left off completely and
              inside Stephensons assumed to be there instead. This would need some
              indication of the means to actuate the outside valve rods though.

              cheers,
              Mike Bickford
              Berowra & Nalya Tramway
              Sydney, Australia
              www.ritginc.org

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "ianj0trains" <ianaj@...>
              To: <ausnarrowgauge@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 12:05 PM
              Subject: [ausnarrowgauge] Re: Something to mull over


              > Hi Michael,
              >
              > I think if you're worried about making it look correct there is a bigger
              > issue than items like the cab front sheet etc. I understand the B 9&1/2
              > was chosen by the manufacturer to release as a kit as it uses the same
              > mechanism as the Bundy Fowler, specifically it has Walschaerts valve gear.
              > Walshaerts although invented in 1840, was not commonly used until
              > locomotives go larger, and really only became standard in the 20th
              > century.
              >
              > The vast majority of narrow gauge engines built in the 19th century had
              > Stephensons, or for some American built locos, Bakers. While I'm sure
              > there will have been exceptions, a quick look through some of my reference
              > books from various manufacturers failed to come up with any 19th century
              > 2' or 2'6" locos with Walshaerts. I think having that valve gear on it
              > would make it a tad difficult to pass off as a 19th century built loco.
              >
              > It was possibly the WW1 use of light railways that encouraged the change
              > over on smaller locos to Walshaerts, as it meant the valve gear could all
              > be accessed and oiled with the loco standing anywhere, they didn't need a
              > pit, something that really is essential for decent access to oil the
              > motion on a 2' or 2'6" loco with Stephensons.
              >
              > See you on the 18th, cheers
              >
              > Ian J
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In ausnarrowgauge@yahoogroups.com, "thirtyinchfan" <michaelhome@...>
              > wrote:
              >>
              >> Here is something to mull over while munching your hot cross buns.
              >>
              >> Most are famillier with the QR class 9-1/2 Fowler 0-6-2. (If not look
              >> here: http://www.zelmeroz.com/album_rail/qld/jf72/jf_i10.jpg ). There is
              >> an On30 kit available, and I can work a small 0-6-2 into the history of
              >> my C&BFT.
              >>
              >> The problem is that I'd need to do a bit of work to make it look as if it
              >> fits. Specifically I'd have to convert a 1920's loco built for tropical
              >> Queensland to look like one built in the early 1890's for a southern
              >> Victorian line, and further model it as it might have appeared, given
              >> reasonable maintainance, in the mid 1920's. So what should I do? Any
              >> thoughts?
              >>
              >> Cheers,
              >>
              >> Michael
            • Mike Bickford
              Back again, A version of a backdated Fowler can be seen at http://www.atlanticpublishers.com/gr/EditorBlog.php This a coal fired 16mm scale loco that is made
              Message 6 of 6 , Apr 2, 2010
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                Back again,

                A version of a 'backdated' Fowler can be seen at
                http://www.atlanticpublishers.com/gr/EditorBlog.php
                This a coal fired 16mm scale loco that is made from a commercially available
                gas fired version.
                The lack of domes, partially enclosed cab and footboards all help to
                backdate the appearance.

                cheers,
                Mike Bickford
                Berowra & Nalya Tramway
                Sydney, Australia
                www.ritginc.org
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