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Re: [atlas_craftsman] Surplus Center Treadmill Motors

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  • dswr@webtv.net
    Skip, The reason Root Mean Square value is used is... Twice in every cycle the Voltage is 0! No matter what the Current value would be, the Power would be 0!
    Message 1 of 28 , Feb 2, 2001
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      Skip,

      The reason Root Mean Square value is used is...

      Twice in every cycle the Voltage is 0! No matter what the Current value
      would be, the Power would be 0!

      Twice in every cycle the Voltage is 1.414 times the stated value. At
      other points in the cycle, the value is somewhere in between.

      Half the time the Voltage is negative. That's why the instantaneous
      values are squared, so as to eliminate the negative component. The root
      of the mean value of these squares are extracted to give the Effective
      value of the Voltage supplied.

      As the current is result of electrons trying to equalize the difference
      in the potential of the conductors (Voltage), it follows that the
      Amperes will also vary like the Voltage.

      Since the Watts is the product of the above values, it will also vary in
      a like manner.

      Leo (squared and rooted)
    • Stanley Johnson
      Leo You are right on the nail head in your RMS explaination. You might have also said it was the power under the curve. When you plot the
      Message 2 of 28 , Feb 2, 2001
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        Leo
        You are right on the nail head in your RMS explaination. You might have
        also said it was the power under the curve. When you plot the
        instantainous(spelling) voltsxamps and any and all points of the sine wave
        for both positive and negitive parts of the cycle. And I think we have
        beat this one until all the temper is hardened. ( the horse was dead long
        time a go.) Getting back to the motors, you need to find out the type of
        motor, in order to see what torque it will produce under load. You can have
        a 2 HP constant volosity motor and it will not turn your lathe under load.
        RPM is a componet of the formula. 2pi fl or 2 x 3.414 x frequencyx
        inductance. Or other wise stated if you slow down the rmps the current goes
        up and will burn the motor out. I promise this is my last word on this
        thread.
        Stan tired and retired
        --
      • SLEYKIN@aol.com
        In a message dated 02/02/2001 9:36:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, ... Excellent! I put one on a 6 Atlas and was quite pleased. ... Yes. You have to cut the
        Message 3 of 28 , Feb 2, 2001
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          In a message dated 02/02/2001 9:36:46 AM Pacific Standard Time,
          rharms1@... writes:


          > To bring this back to the subject of utility.
          >
          > Are these motors any good for use on a small lathe ?

          Excellent! I put one on a 6" Atlas and was quite pleased.

          > Can they be made to reverse ?

          Yes. You have to cut the leads to the brushes and bring them out to a
          croswired DPDT switch. The brushes are biased so plan on running it the
          direction it comes for the primary direction.

          >
          > What is the size of the output shaft ?

          5/8"

          >
          > The idea of a variable speed motor to use on my AA109 (or even 9" SB) is
          > very appealing.

          I have three now. One mounted on the drillpress and two others to mount on
          the 12" Atlas lathe and the wood lathe. The 2.5 HP rating is what you could
          get about 1 microsecond before the motor gernades so plan on a real world
          power of about 3/4 HP. This was much discussed in RCM and opinions abound
          but I felt the motor has more power than the 1HP motor I took off the
          drillpress.

          There are some mods you will want to do to the control board. As is the
          board gives a slow ramp up to set speed and you have to start it with the
          speed pot turned to 0. The mods are simple and instruction are in the RCM
          drop box or the files section of the atlas/craftsman e-group.

          >
          > Thanks for any data
          >
          > Doc
          >
          >

          I can probably answer most of your questions so feel frr to ask.
          Regards
          Glenn Neff
          Medford, OR



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • SLEYKIN@aol.com
          I agree to some extent, however I did tests and found that lock rotor 90 VDC gave a little over 17 amp draw. The circuit board is fused for 10 amps @125VAC so
          Message 4 of 28 , Feb 2, 2001
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            I agree to some extent, however I did tests and found that lock rotor 90 VDC
            gave a little over 17 amp draw. The circuit board is fused for 10 amps
            @125VAC so the max you could get with 100% eff would b about 1.6 HP with the
            supplied control board. Thes motors have incredibal torque for their size
            and the mechanical advantage gained by their high top speed makes for a very
            nice machinery motor ... after you do the mods.

            Glenn Neff
            Medford, OR

            In a message dated 02/02/2001 7:21:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
            jmreid@... writes:


            > A word of caution. If you multiply the amps X volts on these motors you
            > come up with much less than 2.5 HP !!!!
            > The original "2 HP" ones were about 1/2 HP.
            >
            > J. M. Reid
            > Issaquah WA
            >




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • A. G. Eckstein
            My .02 cents worth 1. Yes, they are good on a small lathe. 2. Yes, they can reverse if you switch the leads on EITHER the field or the armature. 3. don t
            Message 5 of 28 , Feb 2, 2001
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              My .02 cents worth
              1. Yes, they are good on a small lathe.
              2. Yes, they can reverse if you switch the leads on EITHER the field or
              the armature.
              3. don't remember, either 1/2 or 5/8.
              4. I had one set up on my 9" SB and thought it was fine. Now have a 12"
              Atlas and haven't even tried YET. May do so in the near future.

              At 10:59 AM 2/2/01, you wrote:
              >To bring this back to the subject of utility.
              >
              >Are these motors any good for use on a small lathe ?
              >
              >Can they be made to reverse ?
              >
              >What is the size of the output shaft ?
              >
              >The idea of a variable speed motor to use on my AA109 (or even 9" SB) is
              >very appealing.
              >
              >Thanks for any data
              >
              >Doc

              Bubba

              OLDER THAN DIRT
              Country Bubba
              (Actually the inventor of Country and Bubba)

              axtein@...
              LaGrange, GA

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Gt6steve@aol.com
              Greetings all, I think I missed the pertinent points in the Treadmill Motor discussion. Where can I request a surplus center Catalog And what is the RCM source
              Message 6 of 28 , Feb 2, 2001
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                Greetings all,
                I think I missed the pertinent points in the Treadmill Motor discussion.
                Where can I request a surplus center Catalog And what is the RCM source for
                details on using them? Thanx, Steve


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • M K (Skip)Campbell Jr.
                I believe someone said the current supply of these motors at Surplus Center are PM motors and a little different controller. The mods for the old motor
                Message 7 of 28 , Feb 2, 2001
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                  I believe someone said the current supply of these
                  motors at Surplus Center are PM motors and a little
                  different controller. The mods for the old motor
                  controllers probably won't work. Someone will undoubtedly
                  come up with mods for the new ones.
                  -Skip Campbell
                  Ft. Worth, TEXAS
                • Dave Engels
                  could someone give me the contact data for how to reach the surplus center ? phone/email/web? thanks Dave Engels ... From: M K (Skip)Campbell Jr.
                  Message 8 of 28 , Feb 2, 2001
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                    could someone give me the contact data for how to reach the 'surplus
                    center'? phone/email/web?

                    thanks

                    Dave Engels

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: M K (Skip)Campbell Jr. [mailto:mkcent@...]
                    Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 6:36 PM
                    To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Surplus Center Treadmill Motors


                    I believe someone said the current supply of these
                    motors at Surplus Center are PM motors and a little
                    different controller. The mods for the old motor
                    controllers probably won't work. Someone will undoubtedly
                    come up with mods for the new ones.
                    -Skip Campbell
                    Ft. Worth, TEXAS

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                  • J. Reid
                    Glenn, how about powering the motors with a 15 amp dimmer rated for inductive load-and a Radio Shack rectifier? Would avoid messing with the circuit board and
                    Message 9 of 28 , Feb 3, 2001
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                      Glenn, how about powering the motors with a 15 amp dimmer rated for
                      inductive load-and a Radio Shack rectifier? Would avoid messing with the
                      circuit board and its' tendency to burn out.

                      Jack Reid
                      Issaquah WA

                      On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 SLEYKIN@... wrote:

                      > I agree to some extent, however I did tests and found that lock rotor 90 VDC
                      > gave a little over 17 amp draw. The circuit board is fused for 10 amps
                      > @125VAC so the max you could get with 100% eff would b about 1.6 HP with the
                      > supplied control board. Thes motors have incredibal torque for their size
                      > and the mechanical advantage gained by their high top speed makes for a very
                      > nice machinery motor ... after you do the mods.
                      >
                      > Glenn Neff
                      > Medford, OR
                      >
                      > In a message dated 02/02/2001 7:21:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                      > jmreid@... writes:
                      >
                      >
                      > > A word of caution. If you multiply the amps X volts on these motors you
                      > > come up with much less than 2.5 HP !!!!
                      > > The original "2 HP" ones were about 1/2 HP.
                      > >
                      > > J. M. Reid
                      > > Issaquah WA
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                      > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                      > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • jdege@jdege.visi.com
                      ... I ordered one. They said the motor alone was part #10-1783-A. The motor+power supply was part #10-1806. The operator said they had received 3600, and
                      Message 10 of 28 , Feb 3, 2001
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                        --- In atlas_craftsman@y..., Mike Biondo <mbiondo@w...> wrote:
                        > The Surplus Center (800-488-3407) has the Treadmill Motors back in
                        > stock. Price is up to $49.99 now, but comes with a 2.5hp permanent magnet
                        > motor and beefier power supply. Noticed in their sales flyer that they are
                        > selling the motor alone for $19.99.
                        >
                        > Mike-

                        I ordered one. They said the motor alone was part #10-1783-A.
                        The motor+power supply was part #10-1806.

                        The operator said they had received 3600, and didn't think they'd
                        last very long.
                      • Roger V. Petrella Jr.
                        I called and ordered one yesterday. When I talked to the sales guy, he confirmed that the controllers are heavier duty. He also checked stock level. Of the
                        Message 11 of 28 , Feb 3, 2001
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                          I called and ordered one yesterday. When I talked to the sales guy, he confirmed
                          that the controllers are heavier duty. He also checked stock level. Of the
                          original 3600, there were less than 1700 left. He expects they won't last long
                          as they just released advertising for them. New catalog is due out in March.

                          Roger Petrella
                          Franktown, CO


                          jdege@... wrote:

                          > --- In atlas_craftsman@y..., Mike Biondo <mbiondo@w...> wrote:
                          > > The Surplus Center (800-488-3407) has the Treadmill Motors back in
                          > > stock. Price is up to $49.99 now, but comes with a 2.5hp permanent magnet
                          > > motor and beefier power supply. Noticed in their sales flyer that they are
                          > > selling the motor alone for $19.99.
                          > >
                          > > Mike-
                          >
                          > I ordered one. They said the motor alone was part #10-1783-A.
                          > The motor+power supply was part #10-1806.
                          >
                          > The operator said they had received 3600, and didn't think they'd
                          > last very long.
                          >
                          > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                          > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                          > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                        • Jon Elson
                          ... 800-488-3407 Lincoln, NE Still no web site, as far as I know. Jon
                          Message 12 of 28 , Feb 3, 2001
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                            Dave Engels wrote:

                            > could someone give me the contact data for how to reach the 'surplus
                            > center'? phone/email/web?

                            800-488-3407
                            Lincoln, NE

                            Still no web site, as far as I know.

                            Jon
                          • Don Murray
                            Jack, I don t think that would work very well. The 2hp motors that surplus center previously had had a tachometer on one end that fed back to the controller to
                            Message 13 of 28 , Feb 3, 2001
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                              Jack,

                              I don't think that would work very well. The 2hp motors that surplus
                              center previously had had a tachometer on one end that fed back to the
                              controller to maintain rpms under load. I don't know about the new 2 1/2
                              hp ones they now have.

                              Don Murray

                              "J. Reid" wrote:
                              >
                              > Glenn, how about powering the motors with a 15 amp dimmer rated for
                              > inductive load-and a Radio Shack rectifier? Would avoid messing with the
                              > circuit board and its' tendency to burn out.
                              >
                              > Jack Reid
                              > Issaquah WA
                              >
                              > On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 SLEYKIN@... wrote:
                              >
                              > > I agree to some extent, however I did tests and found that lock rotor 90 VDC
                              > > gave a little over 17 amp draw. The circuit board is fused for 10 amps
                              > > @125VAC so the max you could get with 100% eff would b about 1.6 HP with the
                              > > supplied control board. Thes motors have incredibal torque for their size
                              > > and the mechanical advantage gained by their high top speed makes for a very
                              > > nice machinery motor ... after you do the mods.
                              > >
                              > > Glenn Neff
                              > > Medford, OR
                              > >
                              > > In a message dated 02/02/2001 7:21:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                              > > jmreid@... writes:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > > A word of caution. If you multiply the amps X volts on these motors you
                              > > > come up with much less than 2.5 HP !!!!
                              > > > The original "2 HP" ones were about 1/2 HP.
                              > > >
                              > > > J. M. Reid
                              > > > Issaquah WA
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                              > > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                              > > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                              > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                              > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                            • SLEYKIN@aol.com
                              In a message dated 02/03/2001 9:14:35 AM Pacific Standard Time, ... The circuit board has tach feedback that maintains constant speed over variable load. Low
                              Message 14 of 28 , Feb 3, 2001
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                                In a message dated 02/03/2001 9:14:35 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                                jmreid@... writes:


                                > Glenn, how about powering the motors with a 15 amp dimmer rated for
                                > inductive load-and a Radio Shack rectifier? Would avoid messing with the
                                > circuit board and its' tendency to burn out.
                                >

                                The circuit board has tach feedback that maintains constant speed over
                                variable load. Low speed performance would be seriously hampered without the
                                feedback. You would probably get more power in the high end though. I have
                                not had any trouble with the boards actually burnining up but have had to
                                re-solder some connections that were designed a bit light. On the 6" lathe
                                there was plenty of power to cut anything I tried with it. I believe there
                                are some variations on the motors as the ones I have seem to work much better
                                than others have reported. The drilpress handles a 1" bit in steel with no
                                problem. Really makes it nice as you can speed it up for the pilot and slow
                                it down for the big bit.

                                I used a 25 amp variac and a big bridge rectifier just to run tests on the
                                motor and decided that the motor was capable of more than the controler could
                                put out.

                                Glenn


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Buckshot
                                Dave and John, It is a mis-spelled quote from the science fiction world. It should be TANSTAAFL, which stands for There Ain t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.
                                Message 15 of 28 , Feb 3, 2001
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                                  Dave and John,

                                  It is a mis-spelled quote from the science fiction world.

                                  It should be TANSTAAFL, which stands for There Ain't No Such
                                  Thing As A Free Lunch.

                                  This theme runs all through science fiction, but is a quote
                                  from Robert A. Heinlein out of (I think, going from memory)
                                  The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress.

                                  Buckshot

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Dave Engels" <engelsda@...>
                                  To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 12:02 PM
                                  Subject: RE: [atlas_craftsman] Surplus Center Treadmill
                                  Motors


                                  > John,
                                  >
                                  > TISNSTAAFL???? Ok, I give up, what is TISNSTAAFL???
                                  >
                                  > Thanks,
                                  > Dave
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: catboat15@... [mailto:catboat15@...]
                                  > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 10:44 PM
                                  > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Surplus Center Treadmill
                                  Motors
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > In a message dated 2/2/01 10:20:17 PM Pacific Standard
                                  Time,
                                  > Don@... writes:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > > I was telling someone about the 69KV going into a
                                  substation
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > I finally got this explaned to my wife (she is no dummy,
                                  has a BS in psych)
                                  > when I asked her if she ever wondered how come that little
                                  skinny wire on
                                  > the
                                  > steel poles can feed her pottery kiln (#6 AWG) great big
                                  wires. Even went
                                  > through a bit of ohms law and now she knows TISNSTAAFL
                                  Even was able to
                                  > show
                                  > the three laws of thermodymanics: 1. You can't win. 2:
                                  You can't break
                                  > even.
                                  > 3: You can't get out of the game. Belted a small steam
                                  engine (3/4 inch X
                                  > 3/4 inch) to a small motor and with about 30 PSI was able
                                  to light a flash
                                  > light bulb (torch bulb for our buddies over in the isles)
                                  When I made the
                                  > electrical connection she could hear the engine load up
                                  and slow down a bit.
                                  > In return with her education and experience in psych work
                                  she did agree that
                                  > any guy that plays with "toys" such as mine is crazy.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > John Meacham
                                  > High Desert of California, Palmdale, Littlerock.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
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                                  >
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