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Re: [atlas_craftsman] Tap & die sets

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  • jmartin957
    In a message dated 10/4/13 10:08:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... Absolutely so, and sometimes even the brittleness is a plus. Have a horizontal mill in which
    Message 1 of 21 , Oct 7, 2013
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      In a message dated 10/4/13 10:08:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jerdal@... writes:


      Oh, yeah, IGNORE the folks who say how horrible and useless "carbon steel" taps and dies are..... They cut fine if sharp, like any tap/die, their only problem is really with being a bit more brittle, and also being harder to re-sharpen if that is needed.

       
      JT


      Absolutely so, and sometimes even the brittleness is a plus.

      Have a horizontal mill in which someone had broken off the tightening screw in the double overarm support.  It was way down deep.  Tried a drill, which didn't want to cut.  Hmmm,  maybe it's not a screw.  Nope, it's a tap.  Can't drill it.  Maybe it's a carbon steel tap.  A couple of hits on a long pin punch and it shattered, and it fell out in pieces.  A HSS tap would have been in there until I found someone with an EDM setup.

      They are harder to sharpen only if one waits so long that they are really dull and need a lot of metal ground off.  Until then, using a slipstone or a few light passes on the wheel, they are easier.

      A tap is one tool that will cut even when quite dull.  And that's a mistake, because you have to use extra force and that's when it snaps.

      John
    • Doc
      learned 50 yrs ago to use carbon steel taps for 6X48 screws mounting target scope blocks & sights ......in the event that one snapped , it COULD
      Message 2 of 21 , Oct 7, 2013
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        learned  50  yrs  ago to use  carbon steel  taps  for 6X48 screws mounting target  scope  blocks & sights ......in  the  event  that  one  snapped  , it COULD BE  REMOVED ....dont know  when  EDM was  around , but i never  heard of it  then
        FWIW ...heating to hardening state &  quenching  n mercury  (& the  fumes  WERE bad  news) ,made carbon taps GLASS hard  & near as  brittle...spot  annealiing generally  took care  of  case  hardening
         
        little  off topic , but  for  those  not  familiar  w/ removing hardened items  that  are  frozen  in  place , it  may be  of  value...
             the  M head  on  the  throwaway (literally ) bridge port  mill had the  head  PINNED w/ a  dowel in the  vertical  position ...troublel  was  it  WASNT  vertical...ground off flush , ....no threads  to  draw  out &..blind  hole.....gave  up  trying  to  move it  w/ a  chisel  biting the  circumference & took the  oxy /actylene to  it heating  to a cherry  red, planning on drilling it out since  i assumed it was carbon steel &  wud  anneal ....started  drilling & it spun  right  out ...i had totally  fortgotten  how  i  removed  the  remains  of  a rear  axle  bearing  in the  axle  housing years  before......just  heat it  up to  red  heat or buxx box  a  bead  on it ...& it MUST expand , so it  does in the only  direction it can  ...as it cools it shrinks in  size EVERYWHERE (  cirecumference & length ...& they  drop  out ..
         best  wishes
        doc
        -----Original Message-----
        From: jmartin957 <jmartin957@...>
        To: atlas_craftsman <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Mon, Oct 7, 2013 9:28 am
        Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Tap & die sets

         
        In a message dated 10/4/13 10:08:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jerdal@... writes:


        Oh, yeah, IGNORE the folks who say how horrible and useless "carbon steel" taps and dies are..... They cut fine if sharp, like any tap/die, their only problem is really with being a bit more brittle, and also being harder to re-sharpen if that is needed.

         
        JT


        Absolutely so, and sometimes even the brittleness is a plus.

        Have a horizontal mill in which someone had broken off the tightening screw in the double overarm support.  It was way down deep.  Tried a drill, which didn't want to cut.  Hmmm,  maybe it's not a screw.  Nope, it's a tap.  Can't drill it.  Maybe it's a carbon steel tap.  A couple of hits on a long pin punch and it shattered, and it fell out in pieces.  A HSS tap would have been in there until I found someone with an EDM setup.

        They are harder to sharpen only if one waits so long that they are really dull and need a lot of metal ground off.  Until then, using a slipstone or a few light passes on the wheel, they are easier.

        A tap is one tool that will cut even when quite dull.  And that's a mistake, because you have to use extra force and that's when it snaps.

        John
      • James Irwin
        I, too have had the ³pleasure(?) of breaking out a 6-48 tap. Brownells said it would work,, and it did w/o much trouble. Heating will make it expand. It¹s
        Message 3 of 21 , Oct 7, 2013
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          Re: [atlas_craftsman] Tap & die sets I, too have had the “pleasure(?) of breaking out a 6-48 tap. Brownells said it would work,, and it did w/o much trouble.

          Heating will make it expand. It’s confined so it will compress against the hole it’s in. When it all cools, clearance will be there. Good tip!

          Jim


          On 10/7/13 4:47 PM, "Doc" wrote:

          learned  50  yrs  ago to use  carbon steel  taps  for 6X48 screws mounting target  scope  blocks & sights ......in  the  event  that  one  snapped  , it COULD BE  REMOVED ....dont know  when  EDM was  around , but i never  heard of it  then
          FWIW ...heating to hardening state &  quenching  n mercury  (& the  fumes  WERE bad  news) ,made carbon taps GLASS hard  & near as  brittle...spot  annealiing generally  took care  of  case  hardening
           
          little  off topic , but  for  those  not  familiar  w/ removing hardened items  that  are  frozen  in  place , it  may be  of  value...
               the  M head  on  the  throwaway (literally ) bridge port  mill had the  head  PINNED w/ a  dowel in the  vertical  position ...troublel  was  it  WASNT  vertical...ground off flush , ....no threads  to  draw  out &..blind  hole.....gave  up  trying  to  move it  w/ a  chisel  biting the  circumference & took the  oxy /actylene to  it heating  to a cherry  red, planning on drilling it out since  i assumed it was carbon steel &  wud  anneal ....started  drilling & it spun  right  out ...i had totally  fortgotten  how  i  removed  the  remains  of  a rear  axle  bearing  in the  axle  housing years  before......just  heat it  up to  red  heat or buxx box  a  bead  on it ...& it MUST expand , so it  does in the only  direction it can  ...as it cools it shrinks in  size EVERYWHERE (  cirecumference & length ...& they  drop  out ..
           best  wishes
        • Gary Bruder
          good advice on removing hardened items, thanks
          Message 4 of 21 , Oct 7, 2013
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            good advice on removing hardened items, thanks
            On 10/7/2013 2:47 PM, Doc wrote:
             

            learned  50  yrs  ago to use  carbon steel  taps  for 6X48 screws mounting target  scope  blocks & sights ......in  the  event  that  one  snapped  , it COULD BE  REMOVED ....dont know  when  EDM was  around , but i never  heard of it  then
            FWIW ...heating to hardening state &  quenching  n mercury  (& the  fumes  WERE bad  news) ,made carbon taps GLASS hard  & near as  brittle...spot  annealiing generally  took care  of  case  hardening
             
            little  off topic , but  for  those  not  familiar  w/ removing hardened items  that  are  frozen  in  place , it  may be  of  value...
                 the  M head  on  the  throwaway (literally ) bridge port  mill had the  head  PINNED w/ a  dowel in the  vertical  position ...troublel  was  it  WASNT  vertical...ground off flush , ....no threads  to  draw  out &..blind  hole.....gave  up  trying  to  move it  w/ a  chisel  biting the  circumference & took the  oxy /actylene to  it heating  to a cherry  red, planning on drilling it out since  i assumed it was carbon steel &  wud  anneal ....started  drilling & it spun  right  out ...i had totally  fortgotten  how  i  removed  the  remains  of  a rear  axle  bearing  in the  axle  housing years  before......just  heat it  up to  red  heat or buxx box  a  bead  on it ...& it MUST expand , so it  does in the only  direction it can  ...as it cools it shrinks in  size EVERYWHERE (  cirecumference & length ...& they  drop  out ..
             best  wishes
            doc
            -----Original Message-----
            From: jmartin957 <jmartin957@...>
            To: atlas_craftsman <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Mon, Oct 7, 2013 9:28 am
            Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Tap & die sets

             
            In a message dated 10/4/13 10:08:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jerdal@... writes:


            Oh, yeah, IGNORE the folks who say how horrible and useless "carbon steel" taps and dies are..... They cut fine if sharp, like any tap/die, their only problem is really with being a bit more brittle, and also being harder to re-sharpen if that is needed.

             
            JT


            Absolutely so, and sometimes even the brittleness is a plus.

            Have a horizontal mill in which someone had broken off the tightening screw in the double overarm support.  It was way down deep.  Tried a drill, which didn't want to cut.  Hmmm,  maybe it's not a screw.  Nope, it's a tap.  Can't drill it.  Maybe it's a carbon steel tap.  A couple of hits on a long pin punch and it shattered, and it fell out in pieces.  A HSS tap would have been in there until I found someone with an EDM setup.

            They are harder to sharpen only if one waits so long that they are really dull and need a lot of metal ground off.  Until then, using a slipstone or a few light passes on the wheel, they are easier.

            A tap is one tool that will cut even when quite dull.  And that's a mistake, because you have to use extra force and that's when it snaps.

            John

          • jtiers
            The difficulty of sharpening is mostly from needing to make sure you do not overheat it in the process. It s easy to do that with glass-hard carbon steel, even
            Message 5 of 21 , Oct 7, 2013
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              In a message dated 10/4/13 10:08:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jerdal@... writes:


              Oh, yeah, IGNORE the folks who say how horrible and useless "carbon steel" taps and dies are..... They cut fine if sharp, like any tap/die, their only problem is really with being a bit more brittle, and also being harder to re-sharpen if that is needed.

               
              JT


              Absolutely so, and sometimes even the brittleness is a plus.

              Have a horizontal mill in which someone had broken off the tightening screw in the double overarm support.  It was way down deep.  Tried a drill, which didn't want to cut.  Hmmm,  maybe it's not a screw.  Nope, it's a tap.  Can't drill it.  Maybe it's a carbon steel tap.  A couple of hits on a long pin punch and it shattered, and it fell out in pieces.  A HSS tap would have been in there until I found someone with an EDM setup.

              They are harder to sharpen only if one waits so long that they are really dull and need a lot of metal ground off.  Until then, using a slipstone or a few light passes on the wheel, they are easier.

              A tap is one tool that will cut even when quite dull.  And that's a mistake, because you have to use extra force and that's when it snaps.

              John


            • jtiers
              The difficulty of sharpening is mostly from needing to make sure you do not overheat it in the process. It s easy to do that with glass-hard carbon steel, even
              Message 6 of 21 , Oct 7, 2013
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                The difficulty of sharpening is mostly from needing to make sure you do not overheat it in the process. It's easy to do that with glass-hard carbon steel, even if you do not "soften" it, it may be locally less than "glass-hard" afterwards.
                 
                Glass-hard" may not be always great, but if it starts that way, it should stay that way.     Drawn to "straw" color, which is still reasonably hard, and considerably tougher, will wear faster.
                 
                JT
                 
                This was another "poisoned message", that would not properly add the message when replied to.... everything appeared except the reply...   Apparently w5acab... is not the only one whose replies are "poisoned" so that regular email cannot use them.
                 
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 9:28 AM
                Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Tap & die sets



                In a message dated 10/4/13 10:08:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jerdal@... writes:


                Oh, yeah, IGNORE the folks who say how horrible and useless "carbon steel" taps and dies are..... They cut fine if sharp, like any tap/die, their only problem is really with being a bit more brittle, and also being harder to re-sharpen if that is needed.

                 
                JT


                Absolutely so, and sometimes even the brittleness is a plus.

                Have a horizontal mill in which someone had broken off the tightening screw in the double overarm support.  It was way down deep.  Tried a drill, which didn't want to cut.  Hmmm,  maybe it's not a screw.  Nope, it's a tap.  Can't drill it.  Maybe it's a carbon steel tap.  A couple of hits on a long pin punch and it shattered, and it fell out in pieces.  A HSS tap would have been in there until I found someone with an EDM setup.

                They are harder to sharpen only if one waits so long that they are really dull and need a lot of metal ground off.  Until then, using a slipstone or a few light passes on the wheel, they are easier.

                A tap is one tool that will cut even when quite dull.  And that's a mistake, because you have to use extra force and that's when it snaps.

                John

              • James Rice
                Lowe s Kobalt tools are either made by unknown sources in China (the cheaper ones) for LG Sourcing (Lowe s in house importer) or Great Neck which is no longer
                Message 7 of 21 , Oct 7, 2013
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                  Lowe's Kobalt tools are either made by unknown sources in China (the cheaper ones) for LG Sourcing (Lowe's in house importer) or Great Neck which is no longer an American company but is an importer located in Taiwan who sources most of the manufacturing in China.  Lowe's pretty much ended the supplier relationship with Danaher.  Lowe's and SnapOn/Williams parted ways several years ago after Lowe's associates were telling people that the Kobalt line was made by Snap-On.  Lowe's got sued over that incident.

                  James (an ex-Lowe's associate)


                  On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 8:59 PM, Dan Buchanan <db45acp@...> wrote:
                   


                  Lowe's better (USA MADE) tools are made by JH Williams/ Danaher/ SnapOn which helps explain the higher cost. 

                  You might want to check out ZORO Tools online, too.
                  They usually have free shipping on orders over $50

                  Good luck,
                  -Dan





                • Dan Buchanan
                  Thanks for the update & enlightenment on the matter, James. -Dan ________________________________ From: James Rice To:
                  Message 8 of 21 , Oct 8, 2013
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                    Thanks for the update & enlightenment on the matter, James.
                    -Dan


                    From: James Rice <james.rice@...>
                    To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, October 7, 2013 7:46 PM
                    Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Tap & die sets

                     
                    Lowe's Kobalt tools are either made by unknown sources in China (the cheaper ones) for LG Sourcing (Lowe's in house importer) or Great Neck which is no longer an American company but is an importer located in Taiwan who sources most of the manufacturing in China.  Lowe's pretty much ended the supplier relationship with Danaher.  Lowe's and SnapOn/Williams parted ways several years ago after Lowe's associates were telling people that the Kobalt line was made by Snap-On.  Lowe's got sued over that incident.

                    James (an ex-Lowe's associate)


                    On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 8:59 PM, Dan Buchanan <db45acp@...> wrote:
                     

                    Lowe's better (USA MADE) tools are made by JH Williams/ Danaher/ SnapOn which helps explain the higher cost. 

                    You might want to check out ZORO Tools online, too.
                    They usually have free shipping on orders over $50

                    Good luck,
                    -Dan







                  • nynjjoe
                    I was looking for a 1/4-20 tap and die at my local Lowe s and the associate told me they no longer carry taps and dies at all. In a message dated 10/7/2013
                    Message 9 of 21 , Oct 8, 2013
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                      I was looking for a 1/4-20 tap and die at my local Lowe's and the associate told me they no longer carry taps and dies at all.
                       
                      In a message dated 10/7/2013 10:46:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, james.rice@... writes:
                       

                      Lowe's Kobalt tools are either made by unknown sources in China (the cheaper ones) for LG Sourcing (Lowe's in house importer) or Great Neck which is no longer an American company but is an importer located in Taiwan who sources most of the manufacturing in China.  Lowe's pretty much ended the supplier relationship with Danaher.  Lowe's and SnapOn/Williams parted ways several years ago after Lowe's associates were telling people that the Kobalt line was made by Snap-On.  Lowe's got sued over that incident.

                      James (an ex-Lowe's associate)


                      On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 8:59 PM, Dan Buchanan <db45acp@...> wrote:
                       


                      Lowe's better (USA MADE) tools are made by JH Williams/ Danaher/ SnapOn which helps explain the higher cost. 

                      You might want to check out ZORO Tools online, too.
                      They usually have free shipping on orders over $50

                      Good luck,
                      -Dan





                    • Guenther Paul
                      When i invest or buy tooling i buy the brand that i know is a good product that does not include Lowe s or Home depot or any chain stores Buy good tools and
                      Message 10 of 21 , Oct 8, 2013
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                        When i invest or buy tooling i buy the brand that i know is a good product that does not include Lowe's or Home depot or any chain stores
                        Buy good tools and they last buy cheap and you buy over and over and spend a lot more money for junk
                         
                        GP

                        From: "nynjjoe@..." <nynjjoe@...>
                        To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2013 9:12 AM
                        Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Tap & die sets
                         
                        I was looking for a 1/4-20 tap and die at my local Lowe's and the associate told me they no longer carry taps and dies at all.
                         
                        In a message dated 10/7/2013 10:46:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, james.rice@... writes:
                         
                        Lowe's Kobalt tools are either made by unknown sources in China (the cheaper ones) for LG Sourcing (Lowe's in house importer) or Great Neck which is no longer an American company but is an importer located in Taiwan who sources most of the manufacturing in China.  Lowe's pretty much ended the supplier relationship with Danaher.  Lowe's and SnapOn/Williams parted ways several years ago after Lowe's associates were telling people that the Kobalt line was made by Snap-On.  Lowe's got sued over that incident.

                        James (an ex-Lowe's associate)
                        On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 8:59 PM, Dan Buchanan <db45acp@...> wrote:
                         

                        Lowe's better (USA MADE) tools are made by JH Williams/ Danaher/ SnapOn which helps explain the higher cost. 

                        You might want to check out ZORO Tools online, too.
                        They usually have free shipping on orders over $50

                        Good luck,
                        -Dan



                      • Charlie Gallo
                        ... Here is a place we totally agree There are 2 exceptions I ve made to this: 1)I m away from home, need to buy a tool, and I can t GET a good one ASAP (ever
                        Message 11 of 21 , Oct 8, 2013
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                          On 10/8/2013 Guenther Paul wrote:

                          > When i invest or buy tooling i buy the brand that i know is a good
                          > product that does not include Lowe's or Home depot or any chain stores
                          > Buy good tools and they last buy cheap and you buy over and over
                          > and spend a lot more money for junk

                          > GP

                          Here is a place we totally agree

                          There are 2 exceptions I've made to this:

                          1)I'm away from home, need to buy a tool, and I can't GET a good one ASAP (ever try and buy a good tap on Sunday morning, out in rural America? You take what the local hardware store has, and hope it is a good one)

                          2)Give aways for kids. I mentor a bunch of kids building robots. The CHRONIC shortage is tape measures. Not long ones, but most of the work is done to +- 1/16, if not 1/8, and is less than 3 ft long. Probably the most common use is similar to "Go get a piece of 1" tube, and cut, deburr and prep a piece 28 1/4" long". Some of these kids have no access to tools, and a few (very few, but they are there) dont have the MONEY for any tools (they are lucky to have money for lunch - a few we politely don't ask to kick in, as we know they can't - we kick in their share). Last year, I bought 50 8ft tape measures (Horrid Freight specials - on sale, 99 cents), and gave EVERY kid on the team their own

                          Between graduation (told the kids 'keep them, they are YOURS') and loss/breakage, we're down to 25 or so. Guess what? I'll buy another 25 to hand out. Am I buying top of the line tapes? Nope! And when I'm working with them, I deliberately using the same tapes, to show what can be done

                          Trying to figure out what tool/tools I'm going to add to the shop this year. I added 1/2 dozen files, file cards, a few boxes of hardware, scribes, etc last year as well as the give aways, probably spent about $500 or so on 'gifts' for the shop

                          --

                          --
                          Charlie
                          www.baysidephoto.com
                          www.thegallos.com
                        • Clem Wixted
                          Good for you Charlie. You are true American. It s people like you that have made our country great. Thank you. Clem
                          Message 12 of 21 , Oct 8, 2013
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                            Good for you Charlie. You are true American. It's people like you that have made our country great. Thank you.

                            Clem 


                            On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 9:09 AM, Charlie Gallo <Charlie@...> wrote:
                             


                            On 10/8/2013 Guenther Paul wrote:

                            > When i invest or buy tooling i buy the brand that i know is a good
                            > product that does not include Lowe's or Home depot or any chain stores
                            > Buy good tools and they last buy cheap and you buy over and over
                            > and spend a lot more money for junk

                            > GP

                            Here is a place we totally agree

                            There are 2 exceptions I've made to this:

                            1)I'm away from home, need to buy a tool, and I can't GET a good one ASAP (ever try and buy a good tap on Sunday morning, out in rural America? You take what the local hardware store has, and hope it is a good one)

                            2)Give aways for kids. I mentor a bunch of kids building robots. The CHRONIC shortage is tape measures. Not long ones, but most of the work is done to +- 1/16, if not 1/8, and is less than 3 ft long. Probably the most common use is similar to "Go get a piece of 1" tube, and cut, deburr and prep a piece 28 1/4" long". Some of these kids have no access to tools, and a few (very few, but they are there) dont have the MONEY for any tools (they are lucky to have money for lunch - a few we politely don't ask to kick in, as we know they can't - we kick in their share). Last year, I bought 50 8ft tape measures (Horrid Freight specials - on sale, 99 cents), and gave EVERY kid on the team their own

                            Between graduation (told the kids 'keep them, they are YOURS') and loss/breakage, we're down to 25 or so. Guess what? I'll buy another 25 to hand out. Am I buying top of the line tapes? Nope! And when I'm working with them, I deliberately using the same tapes, to show what can be done

                            Trying to figure out what tool/tools I'm going to add to the shop this year. I added 1/2 dozen files, file cards, a few boxes of hardware, scribes, etc last year as well as the give aways, probably spent about $500 or so on 'gifts' for the shop

                            --

                            --
                            Charlie
                            www.baysidephoto.com
                            www.thegallos.com


                          • EdwinB
                            If you live in a city of any size, check to see if you have a Fastenal distributor. I ve bought a number of taps & bits from them and have been quite pleased
                            Message 13 of 21 , Oct 9, 2013
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                              If you live in a city of any size, check to see if you have a Fastenal distributor. I've bought a number of taps & bits from them and have been quite pleased with the quality.

                              Regards,
                              Ed

                              --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, Guenther Paul <paulguenter@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > When i invest or buy tooling i buy the brand that i know is a good product that does not include Lowe's or Home depot or any chain stores
                              > Buy good tools and they last buy cheap and you buy over and over and spend a lot more money for junk
                              >
                              > GP
                              >
                              >
                            • Charles Gallo
                              As travers tool is about two miles from home....
                              Message 14 of 21 , Oct 9, 2013
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                                As travers tool is about two miles from home....

                                > On Oct 9, 2013, at 10:38 AM, "EdwinB" <n5kzw@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > If you live in a city of any size, check to see if you have a Fastenal distributor. I've bought a number of taps & bits from them and have been quite pleased with the quality.
                                >
                                > Regards,
                                > Ed
                                >
                                > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, Guenther Paul <paulguenter@...> wrote:
                                >>
                                >> When i invest or buy tooling i buy the brand that i know is a good product that does not include Lowe's or Home depot or any chain stores
                                >> Buy good tools and they last buy cheap and you buy over and over and spend a lot more money for junk
                                >>
                                >> GP
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
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                              • oldstudentmsgt
                                I bought the cheap (less than $10) chinese sets of metric & SAE, carbon steel dies. (Said so, right there on the package!!! REALLY!) and have been replacing
                                Message 15 of 21 , Oct 9, 2013
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                                  I bought the cheap (less than $10) chinese sets of metric & SAE, carbon steel dies. (Said so, right there on the package!!! REALLY!) and have been replacing them as I destroy them with Vermont American taps and dies. The case and organizer fittings are good quality, anyway. I did not expect to use the original taps more than once, just got them to have a place to put the VA stuff as I got it, on a when needed/as needed basis.

                                  A local distributor, Steve's Wholesale Tools, carries the VA taps and dies individually, and in sets. I think I've got about $60 invested in good taps and dies, and $20 in the cases (with about half the original cheap taps and dies still in there). The larger taps and dies seem to work fine as seldom as I use them. The smaller ones were generally the crap everyone seems to think they would be.

                                  My workshop area has always been long on stuff, and short on stuff to keep stuff organized. After 17 years here, I'm trying to remedy that situation.

                                  Bill in OKC



                                  --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, Guenther Paul <paulguenter@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > When i invest or buy tooling i buy the brand that i know is a good product that does not include Lowe's or Home depot or any chain stores
                                  > Buy good tools and they last buy cheap and you buy over and over and spend a lot more money for junk
                                  >
                                  > GP
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ________________________________
                                  > From: "nynjjoe@..." <nynjjoe@...>
                                  > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2013 9:12 AM
                                  > Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Tap & die sets
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  >
                                  > I was looking for a 1/4-20 tap and die at my local Lowe's and the associate
                                  > told me they no longer carry taps and dies at all.
                                  >
                                  > In a message dated 10/7/2013 10:46:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                  > james.rice@... writes:
                                  >  
                                  > >Lowe's Kobalt tools are either made by unknown sources in China (the cheaper ones) for LG Sourcing (Lowe's in house importer) or Great Neck which is no longer an American company but is an importer located in Taiwan who sources most of the manufacturing in China.  Lowe's pretty much ended the supplier relationship with Danaher.  Lowe's and SnapOn/Williams parted ways several years ago after Lowe's associates were telling people that the Kobalt line was made by Snap-On.  Lowe's got sued over that incident.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >James (an ex-Lowe's associate)
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 8:59 PM, Dan Buchanan <db45acp@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >> 
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>Lowe's better (USA MADE) tools are made by JH Williams/ Danaher/ SnapOn which helps explain the higher cost. 
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>You might want to check out ZORO Tools online, too.
                                  > >>They usually have free shipping on orders over $50
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>Good luck,
                                  > >>-Dan
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  >
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