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"HOME" shops... was "an experimental measuring system"

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  • jtiers
    I was absolutely certain that sooner or later someone would attack the discussion and talk about HOME shops..... And here it is..... Some people CANNOT
    Message 1 of 19 , Sep 24, 2013
       
      I was absolutely certain that sooner or later someone would attack the discussion and talk about "HOME" shops.....  And here it is.....
       
      Some people CANNOT STAND anything they think is "trying to be better".... Everyone has to come to their level, and if that is a low level, well, anyone that wants to improve is "gitting uppity", or "trying to make themselves out to be better than us", and needs to be clawed back down..
       
      Folks, a "home" shop can be a drill press and a chisel, or it can look like a corporate toolroom.  Totally depends on the person.
       
      All the stuff at this link was made in "HOME" shops...... 
       
       
      Now, remind me again about how all home shops are hack outfits with totally worn-out equipment, making things to tolerances of +- 50 thous....?
       
      JT
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 10:37 PM
      Subject: [atlas_craftsman] RE: new article: An Experimental Measurement System

      As the old man that taught me the machinist trade nearly 40yrs ago use to say, "If it has to be that close, it ain't go'an work anyway."


      Once, a place where I worked about ten of us where setting around at lunch time talking about measurements. Someone got the idea of all of us using the same set of mic's to measure the same standard.  Out of all of us in the group. Only two people came up with exactly the same reading.  Why, way too many variables came into play for everyone to read the same.  How each person held the mic's, How long they held them. How tight or loose they measured at.  Just to mention a few. 


      That's why ALL prints or spec's I've ever seen have a thing called "Tolerance of +/- a given value."  


      Just say'in guys, we are talking about HOME MACHINIST and HOME MADE or very old, well worn and abused equipment in most cases.


      jim b in wv

    • Jon Elson
      ... Yup, the guys who make model jet engines do it in home shops , and that is some very exacting work! The guys at the NAMES shows who built running 18-cyl
      Message 2 of 19 , Sep 24, 2013
        jerdal@... wrote:
        >
        > I was absolutely certain that sooner or later someone would attack the
        > discussion and talk about "HOME" shops..... And here it is.....
        >
        > Folks, a "home" shop can be a drill press and a chisel, or it can look
        > like a corporate toolroom. Totally depends on the person.
        >
        Yup, the guys who make model jet engines do it in "home shops", and that
        is some
        very exacting work! The guys at the NAMES shows who built running 18-cyl
        radial engines did it in their home shops, also the guy who built a
        1/4-scale
        Ferrari roadster and the Duesenberg coupe. Carl Johansen who invented the
        gauge block developed all the technology for micron-level measurement and
        surface finishing in his home, too.

        Jon
      • Rick Sparber
        JT, I do not know Jim s motivation but certainly did not take offense. Over the years I have seen many times when a retired professional machinist scratches
        Message 3 of 19 , Sep 24, 2013

          JT,

           

          I do not know Jim’s motivation but certainly did not take offense.

           

          Over the years I have seen many times when a retired professional machinist scratches their head over the kinds of crazy things I enjoying studying. Most of what I do is not practical. It is just fun for me to investigate. Once in a while I do hit something practical but that is not my primary goal.

           

          Thanks for the URL to the museum. In a few months we plan to visit it.

           

          Rick

           

          From: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com [mailto:atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jerdal@...
          Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:58 AM
          To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [atlas_craftsman] "HOME" shops... was "an experimental measuring system"

           




           

          I was absolutely certain that sooner or later someone would attack the discussion and talk about "HOME" shops.....  And here it is.....

           

          Some people CANNOT STAND anything they think is "trying to be better".... Everyone has to come to their level, and if that is a low level, well, anyone that wants to improve is "gitting uppity", or "trying to make themselves out to be better than us", and needs to be clawed back down..

           

          Folks, a "home" shop can be a drill press and a chisel, or it can look like a corporate toolroom.  Totally depends on the person.

           

          All the stuff at this link was made in "HOME" shops...... 

           

           

          Now, remind me again about how all home shops are hack outfits with totally worn-out equipment, making things to tolerances of +- 50 thous....?

           

          JT

           

          ----- Original Message -----

          Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 10:37 PM

          Subject: [atlas_craftsman] RE: new article: An Experimental Measurement System

           

          As the old man that taught me the machinist trade nearly 40yrs ago use to say, "If it has to be that close, it ain't go'an work anyway."

           

          Once, a place where I worked about ten of us where setting around at lunch time talking about measurements. Someone got the idea of all of us using the same set of mic's to measure the same standard.  Out of all of us in the group. Only two people came up with exactly the same reading.  Why, way too many variables came into play for everyone to read the same.  How each person held the mic's, How long they held them. How tight or loose they measured at.  Just to mention a few. 

           

          That's why ALL prints or spec's I've ever seen have a thing called "Tolerance of +/- a given value."  

           

          Just say'in guys, we are talking about HOME MACHINIST and HOME MADE or very old, well worn and abused equipment in most cases.

           

          jim b in wv




        • jtiers
          Offense .... Maybe not quite.... What is truly offensive is the more usual statements that are common, and amount to: I can t measure that close, and don t
          Message 4 of 19 , Sep 24, 2013
            "Offense"....  Maybe not quite....  What is truly offensive is the more usual statements that are common, and amount to: "I can't measure that close, and don't want to, so YOU shouldn't try to do it either, cuz I say so".
             
            The bit about "Just say'in guys, we are talking about HOME MACHINIST and HOME MADE or very old, well worn and abused equipment in most cases" gets close to that, but falls just short of it.
             
            As the poster was a machinist, he ought to know that good machinists can get close tolerances out of worn equipment....  It's notoriously true, down to the famous "Bull O The Woods" cartoon about the shims and whatever that fell out of the machine whenever the temporary replacement machinist moved a handle on the machine.
             
            JT
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 11:22 AM
            Subject: RE: [atlas_craftsman] "HOME" shops... was "an experimental measuring system"

            JT,

             

            I do not know Jim’s motivation but certainly did not take offense.

             

            Over the years I have seen many times when a retired professional machinist scratches their head over the kinds of crazy things I enjoying studying. Most of what I do is not practical. It is just fun for me to investigate. Once in a while I do hit something practical but that is not my primary goal.

             

            Thanks for the URL to the museum. In a few months we plan to visit it.

             

            Rick

             

            From: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com [mailto:atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jerdal@...
            Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:58 AM
            To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [atlas_craftsman] "HOME" shops... was "an experimental measuring system"

             




             

            I was absolutely certain that sooner or later someone would attack the discussion and talk about "HOME" shops.....  And here it is.....

             

            Some people CANNOT STAND anything they think is "trying to be better".... Everyone has to come to their level, and if that is a low level, well, anyone that wants to improve is "gitting uppity", or "trying to make themselves out to be better than us", and needs to be clawed back down..

             

            Folks, a "home" shop can be a drill press and a chisel, or it can look like a corporate toolroom.  Totally depends on the person.

             

            All the stuff at this link was made in "HOME" shops...... 

             

             

            Now, remind me again about how all home shops are hack outfits with totally worn-out equipment, making things to tolerances of +- 50 thous....?

             

            JT

             

            ----- Original Message -----

            Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 10:37 PM

            Subject: [atlas_craftsman] RE: new article: An Experimental Measurement System

             

            As the old man that taught me the machinist trade nearly 40yrs ago use to say, "If it has to be that close, it ain't go'an work anyway."

             

            Once, a place where I worked about ten of us where setting around at lunch time talking about measurements. Someone got the idea of all of us using the same set of mic's to measure the same standard.  Out of all of us in the group. Only two people came up with exactly the same reading.  Why, way too many variables came into play for everyone to read the same.  How each person held the mic's, How long they held them. How tight or loose they measured at.  Just to mention a few. 

             

            That's why ALL prints or spec's I've ever seen have a thing called "Tolerance of +/- a given value."  

             

            Just say'in guys, we are talking about HOME MACHINIST and HOME MADE or very old, well worn and abused equipment in most cases.

             

            jim b in wv




          • Jim
            Jtiers, what the hell is your problem? I read earlier today the post you made in response to a post I made on this subject. I usually don t let post from
            Message 5 of 19 , Sep 24, 2013
              Jtiers, what the hell is your problem?

              I read earlier today the post you made in response to a post I made on
              this subject. I usually don't let post from jackasses bother me. But for
              some reason, it has nawled on me all day. I went to the store to get out
              of the house for a while and clear my head. In doing so I decided it
              wasn't worth responding to you about what I had said earlier. But low
              and behold I get back home and see you have continued to make additional
              statements about me. Now I'm an old man that really don't kiss anyone's
              ass to get along with them anymore. Found out years ago it doesn't do
              any good.

              To start off with, I wasn't making a statement to you, I was responding
              to Rick whom I have watched now for several years. Many of the ideas he
              has came up with seemed "off the wall" to most people at first glance,
              but I have learned to be patient and see where he is going with his
              idea's. Many of which have proven to be quite valuable and informative
              to me. I have the greatest respect for what he does, the post and
              articles he has made on several of the forums or groups I am a member of.

              Now Jtiers, you on the other hand, seem to be "some kind of know it all"
              that I've seen through out my life. You hide behind the anonymity which
              the Internet provides you and wax eloquent about subjects you probably
              know little about, other than what you have read some where. When
              someone says something you may happen to disagree with you jump on your
              high horse an run your mouth. As far as I can tell you only started
              posting to this site near the first of the year. That post started with
              complaining about your post being deleted. I can find no websites or
              pictures of any thing you have actually done, other than to spout off
              and criticize the work someone else has done, or, is doing.

              Now, first you know absolutely nothing about me, what I have done
              through out my life, what I'm doing now, what I can and cannot do.


              <mailto:jerdal@...?subject=Re%3A%20new%20article%3A%20An%20Experimental%20Measurement%20System>


              This statement just plain pisses me off. "Offense".... Maybe not
              quite.... What is truly offensive is the more usual statements that are
              common, and amount to: "I can't measure that close, and don't want to,
              so YOU shouldn't try to do it either, cuz I say so".

              Who the hell are you to make such a statement about me. Someone you know
              nothing about. How many parts have you made for nuclear subs, or how
              many machines have you built that are used to "set lab quality
              standards" for international trade in the coal industry between the U.S.
              and China. Or for that matter how many students have you spent years
              teaching electronics too. All of which I can say "I Have." So before you
              start running your mouth about someone, maybe, just maybe, you need to
              find out a little about them.

              This statement is just what it is. The bit about "Just say'in guys, we
              are talking about HOME MACHINIST and HOME MADE or very old, well worn
              and abused equipment in most cases" gets close to that, but falls just
              short of it.

              Most people on this forum are new to machining and use there equipment
              for hobby purposes. Most I would venture to say DO NOT have new
              equipment and most have picked up used equipment from various sources
              like estate sales, family members, yard sales or auctions. None of which
              are places you would normally buy precession equipment.
              As the poster was a machinist, he ought to know that good machinists can
              get close tolerances out of worn equipment.... It's notoriously true,
              down to the famous "Bull O The Woods" cartoon about the shims and
              whatever that fell out of the machine whenever the temporary replacement
              machinist moved a handle on the machine.

              Jtiers, Your right with the statement above, about a good machinist can
              use junk machines and produce close tolerances. The fist machine I ever
              ran was converted line-shaft drive shaper. If you don't know what that
              is look it it up.

              But as I read and understand this topic, one of Ricks objectives is to
              make a cheap affordable means for the non-professional to obtain a high
              degree of accuracy with minimal skills. This I whole heartily appalled
              him for. As a matter of fact, Rick, I can see your current device being
              coupled to the DRO system you made for the HF lathe being coupled
              together to provide an outstanding DRO using, say a 1 inch. 7 segment
              display unit. Rather than having to use a magnifying glass to read the
              display on the calipers you are currently using. Just a thought, for
              Practical Application.

              Now someone mentioned the the miniature engines and cars people have
              built. I think if you where to ask most of these guys how they get the
              precision to build these machines you will find MOST if not all these
              machines, are made by hand work, much like the clock makers of old. That
              and the level of skill needed to produce those things are far beyond the
              skill level for even very good machinist. In fact I would put it closer
              to an art than skill. The guy that built the Bentley (I believe it was)
              took 20-30 yrs to build. How many of us on this group have that kind of
              dedication, tensity, and skill to do such a project. Not me. I know my
              limits and I would venture to say the same is true for most others on
              this group.

              Now to all the members of this group I want to apologize for going on
              this rant. It's not something I usually do.

              But to Jtiers, all I can say to you, is to give you an invitation to
              KISS MY ASS.


              Jim Blake in WV


              ----- Original Message -----
              *From:* Rick Sparber <mailto:rgsparber@...>
              *To:* atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
              <mailto:atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
              *Sent:* Tuesday, September 24, 2013 11:22 AM
              *Subject:* RE: [atlas_craftsman] "HOME" shops... was "an
              experimental measuring system"

              JT,

              I do not know Jim’s motivation but certainly did not take offense.

              Over the years I have seen many times when a retired professional
              machinist scratches their head over the kinds of crazy things I
              enjoying studying. Most of what I do is not practical. It is just
              fun for me to investigate. Once in a while I do hit something
              practical but that is not my primary goal.

              Thanks for the URL to the museum. In a few months we plan to visit it.

              Rick

              *From:*atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *jerdal@...
              *Sent:* Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:58 AM
              *To:* atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
              *Subject:* [atlas_craftsman] "HOME" shops... was "an experimental
              measuring system"




              I was absolutely certain that sooner or later someone would attack
              the discussion and talk about "HOME" shops..... And here it is.....

              Some people CANNOT STAND anything they think is "trying to be
              better".... Everyone has to come to their level, and if that is a
              low level, well, anyone that wants to improve is "gitting uppity",
              or "trying to make themselves out to be better than us", and needs
              to be clawed back down..

              Folks, a "home" shop can be a drill press and a chisel, or it can
              look like a corporate toolroom. Totally depends on the person.

              All the stuff at this link was made in "HOME" shops......

              http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/facility.htm

              Now, remind me again about how all home shops are hack outfits with
              totally worn-out equipment, making things to tolerances of +- 50
              thous....?

              JT

              ----- Original Message -----

              *From:*jblake9042@... <mailto:jblake9042@...>

              *To:*atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
              <mailto:atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>

              *Sent:*Monday, September 23, 2013 10:37 PM

              *Subject:*[atlas_craftsman] RE: new article: An Experimental
              Measurement System

              As the old man that taught me the machinist trade nearly 40yrs
              ago use to say, "If it has to be that close, it ain't go'an work
              anyway."

              Once, a place where I worked about ten of us where setting
              around at lunch time talking about measurements. Someone got the
              idea of all of us using the same set of mic's to measure the
              same standard. Out of all of us in the group. Only two people
              came up with exactly the same reading. Why, way too many
              variables came into play for everyone to read the same. How each
              person held the mic's, How long they held them. How tight or
              loose they measured at. Just to mention a few.

              That's why ALL prints or spec's I've ever seen have a thing
              called "Tolerance of +/- a given value."

              Just say'in guys, we are talking about HOME MACHINIST and HOME
              MADE or very old, well worn and abused equipment in most cases.

              jim b in wv
            • studmarked
              Rick, As a regular lurker on this forum (I call it Lurk & Learn ) I really enjoy following your projects where I can and I hope they will continue, pushing
              Message 6 of 19 , Sep 25, 2013
                Rick, As a regular 'lurker' on this forum (I call it 'Lurk & Learn') I really enjoy following your projects where I can and I hope they will continue, pushing the envelope of your abilities and the limits of your tooling is the mark of a progressive engineer, the positive responses you get show the affinity other members have for what you are trying to do. I take my hat off to you for even attempting to attain such standards, thanks for letting me share and learn from your projects.

                Phil Sutcliffe Dewsbury UK

                 



                ---In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                JT,

                 

                I do not know Jim’s motivation but certainly did not take offense.

                 

                Over the years I have seen many times when a retired professional machinist scratches their head over the kinds of crazy things I enjoying studying. Most of what I do is not practical. It is just fun for me to investigate. Once in a while I do hit something practical but that is not my primary goal.

                 

                Thanks for the URL to the museum. In a few months we plan to visit it.

                 

                Rick

                 

                From: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com [mailto:atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jerdal@...
                Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:58 AM
                To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [atlas_craftsman] "HOME" shops... was "an experimental measuring system"

                 




                 

                I was absolutely certain that sooner or later someone would attack the discussion and talk about "HOME" shops.....  And here it is.....

                 

                Some people CANNOT STAND anything they think is "trying to be better".... Everyone has to come to their level, and if that is a low level, well, anyone that wants to improve is "gitting uppity", or "trying to make themselves out to be better than us", and needs to be clawed back down..

                 

                Folks, a "home" shop can be a drill press and a chisel, or it can look like a corporate toolroom.  Totally depends on the person.

                 

                All the stuff at this link was made in "HOME" shops...... 

                 

                 

                Now, remind me again about how all home shops are hack outfits with totally worn-out equipment, making things to tolerances of +- 50 thous....?

                 

                JT

                 

                ----- Original Message -----

                Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 10:37 PM

                Subject: [atlas_craftsman] RE: new article: An Experimental Measurement System

                 

                As the old man that taught me the machinist trade nearly 40yrs ago use to say, "If it has to be that close, it ain't go'an work anyway."

                 

                Once, a place where I worked about ten of us where setting around at lunch time talking about measurements. Someone got the idea of all of us using the same set of mic's to measure the same standard.  Out of all of us in the group. Only two people came up with exactly the same reading.  Why, way too many variables came into play for everyone to read the same.  How each person held the mic's, How long they held them. How tight or loose they measured at.  Just to mention a few. 

                 

                That's why ALL prints or spec's I've ever seen have a thing called "Tolerance of +/- a given value."  

                 

                Just say'in guys, we are talking about HOME MACHINIST and HOME MADE or very old, well worn and abused equipment in most cases.

                 

                jim b in wv




              • jtiers
                Jim: I have seldom seen such a nasty post. And I mean that in a good way. If that s what you really think, well there s not much to be done for you. You have
                Message 7 of 19 , Sep 25, 2013
                  Jim:

                  I have seldom seen such a nasty post. And I mean that in a good way.

                  If that's what you really think, well there's not much to be done for you.
                  You have to do it for yourself.

                  I resent it when people start down the path of "this is what a home shop
                  is, and precision has no part in it." It isn't fair to at least half the
                  folks I know who have shops. I've met a number of them around my area, and
                  they do work that is way better than some of what I get back from local
                  commercial shops. And they do it on new imported machines, in most cases,
                  but sometimes on ancient stuff I'd almost rather scrap than fix.

                  If you can do hand work on tiny 4 cylinder engines that run and are so small
                  they can sit on your thumb, complete with valves, spark plugs, and 3 piston
                  rings per piston, you are better than me... those folks used machines.

                  I've been here for 12 years or so, from way way back that I don't even
                  recall. Aside from my own parts (I refurbish old machinery as a hobby) I
                  am, for purposes of this discussion, the model shop machinist for the place
                  I work, making one-offs for our prototypes and test rigs. (It isn't my
                  regular job, but I do it anyway, particularly for parts I design and want to
                  get samples of fast).

                  Anonymity? You seem to know my name.....

                  Now, I think Mr Sparber is fooling himself with the precision adapter for
                  the $12 calipers.... I won't say he shouldn't try, though. And he asked
                  for the assessment, twice, and I provided it, twice.

                  I surely don't know it all.... neither do you.... everyone knows things
                  others don't. Everyone is good at some things and not at others. NONE of
                  us were born knowing anything... we all learned whatever we know. So nobody
                  has any "corner" on knowledge.

                  Calm down and we'll get along fine in the future. Just please quit
                  assuming that home shops are no place for precision..... There are all
                  kinds.

                  JT


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Jim" <jblake9042@...>
                  To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 10:42 PM
                  Subject: [atlas_craftsman] "HOME" shops... was "an experimental measuring
                  system"


                  > Jtiers, what the hell is your problem?
                  >
                  > I read earlier today the post you made in response to a post I made on
                  > this subject. I usually don't let post from jackasses bother me. But for
                  > some reason, it has nawled on me all day. I went to the store to get out
                  > of the house for a while and clear my head. In doing so I decided it
                  > wasn't worth responding to you about what I had said earlier. But low
                  > and behold I get back home and see you have continued to make additional
                  > statements about me. Now I'm an old man that really don't kiss anyone's
                  > ass to get along with them anymore. Found out years ago it doesn't do
                  > any good.
                  >
                  > To start off with, I wasn't making a statement to you, I was responding
                  > to Rick whom I have watched now for several years. Many of the ideas he
                  > has came up with seemed "off the wall" to most people at first glance,
                  > but I have learned to be patient and see where he is going with his
                  > idea's. Many of which have proven to be quite valuable and informative
                  > to me. I have the greatest respect for what he does, the post and
                  > articles he has made on several of the forums or groups I am a member of.
                  >
                  > Now Jtiers, you on the other hand, seem to be "some kind of know it all"
                  > that I've seen through out my life. You hide behind the anonymity which
                  > the Internet provides you and wax eloquent about subjects you probably
                  > know little about, other than what you have read some where. When
                  >
                • Rick Sparber
                  Phil, Thanks for the encouraging words. My insanity is solidly intact and I have no intensions of ending my quest to “till at windmills”. I firmly believe
                  Message 8 of 19 , Sep 25, 2013

                    Phil,

                     

                    Thanks for the encouraging words. My insanity is solidly intact and I have no intensions of ending my quest to “till at windmills”. I firmly believe that if one of my ideas out of 100 is really great, then it was worth the effort. To me, failure is giving up. My primary goal on the measuring system was to learn to program the Arduino and handle the hardware. It has been a roaring success. Now I’m itching to find my next application of this technology!

                     

                    Rick

                     

                    From: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com [mailto:atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of philip.a.sutcliffe@...
                    Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 2:20 AM
                    To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: RE: [atlas_craftsman] &quot;HOME&quot; shops... was &quot;an experimental measuring system&quot;

                     



                    Rick, As a regular 'lurker' on this forum (I call it 'Lurk & Learn') I really enjoy following your projects where I can and I hope they will continue, pushing the envelope of your abilities and the limits of your tooling is the mark of a progressive engineer, the positive responses you get show the affinity other members have for what you are trying to do. I take my hat off to you for even attempting to attain such standards, thanks for letting me share and learn from your projects.

                    Phil Sutcliffe Dewsbury UK

                  • Eggleston Lance
                    Rick, Someone mentioned it before, but I will repeat. Here s a project I would like help with and your Ardunino project may be the solution. I have two igaging
                    Message 9 of 19 , Sep 25, 2013
                      Rick,

                      Someone mentioned it before, but I will repeat.

                      Here's a project I would like help with and your Ardunino
                      project may be the solution.

                      I have two igaging digital DRO units.
                      I have made adapters to mount them longitudinally and
                      cross wise on my 16" SBL.

                      However, in use, the digital counter does not start to move until
                      the cross slide has moved 0.25" and the reading drifts. 
                      They are unusable as is.

                      Might your averaging system apply to make this useable?
                      More info off-line if needed.

                      Also, I'd love to learn how to use the Arduino, am esp interested in the
                      AC power shield and motor controller. 

                      lance
                      ++++

                      On Sep 25, 2013, at 11:55 AM, Rick Sparber wrote:


                      Thanks for the encouraging words. My insanity is solidly intact and I have no intensions of ending my quest to “till at windmills”. I firmly believe that if one of my ideas out of 100 is really great, then it was worth the effort. To me, failure is giving up. My primary goal on the measuring system was to learn to program the Arduino and handle the hardware. It has been a roaring success. Now I’m itching to find my next application of this technology!



                    • Frank
                      Rick, Way off topic, but how about an SI570 Direct Synthesizer with band switching info using an Arduinofor you next project. Frank - W4NHJ - ... Rick, W ay
                      Message 10 of 19 , Sep 25, 2013
                        Rick,

                        Way off topic, but how about an SI570 Direct Synthesizer with band switching info using an Arduino for you next project.

                        Frank - W4NHJ

                        -
                        On 9/25/13 11:55 AM, Rick Sparber wrote:
                         

                        Phil,

                         

                        Thanks for the encouraging words. My insanity is solidly intact and I have no intensions of ending my quest to “till at windmills”. I firmly believe that if one of my ideas out of 100 is really great, then it was worth the effort. To me, failure is giving up. My primary goal on the measuring system was to learn to program the Arduino and handle the hardware. It has been a roaring success. Now I’m itching to find my next application of this technology!

                         

                        Rick

                         

                        From: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com [mailto:atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of philip.a.sutcliffe@...
                        Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 2:20 AM
                        To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: RE: [atlas_craftsman] &quot;HOME&quot; shops... was &quot;an experimental measuring system&quot;

                         



                        Rick, As a regular 'lurker' on this forum (I call it 'Lurk & Learn') I really enjoy following your projects where I can and I hope they will continue, pushing the envelope of your abilities and the limits of your tooling is the mark of a progressive engineer, the positive responses you get show the affinity other members have for what you are trying to do. I take my hat off to you for even attempting to attain such standards, thanks for letting me share and learn from your projects.

                        Phil Sutcliffe Dewsbury UK


                      • Rick Sparber
                        Lance, Something is very wrong with either the igaging DROs or the way they are mounted. If it was me, I would start by trying to understand the root cause of
                        Message 11 of 19 , Sep 25, 2013

                          Lance,

                           

                          Something is very wrong with either the igaging DROs or the way they are mounted. If it was me, I would start by trying to understand the root cause of these problems. Just connecting these DROs to a processor won’t get you better results. For example, how could a computer know what to do during that first 0.25” of movement when the display doesn’t move at all?

                           

                          I took out many books from the library on programming Arduinos. The best of the bunch was the one by Simon Monk. It also helps A LOT to find someone you can contact when you get stumped. I’m very lucky to have a student that knows a lot about Arduinos and the related support systems. The docs range from excellent to awful so it is very difficult to do it all by yourself.

                           

                          If you want a low cost way to get started learning about the Arduino, I suggest the sparkfun.com product called the Pro Micro. It costs $20 + s/h. Connect up a USB cable and you are ready to go. All software is free. The Arduino software development system works well. I wrote over 8K of program with it.

                           

                          Those “shields” do let you avoid getting into electronics but they sure can be expensive. Given my background, I’m happier adding my own circuits to the Arduino.

                           

                          Peace,

                           

                          Rick

                           

                          From: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com [mailto:atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eggleston Lance
                          Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 9:37 AM
                          To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman]an experimental measuring system

                           



                          Rick,

                           

                          Someone mentioned it before, but I will repeat.

                           

                          Here's a project I would like help with and your Ardunino

                          project may be the solution.

                           

                          I have two igaging digital DRO units.

                          I have made adapters to mount them longitudinally and

                          cross wise on my 16" SBL.

                           

                          However, in use, the digital counter does not start to move until

                          the cross slide has moved 0.25" and the reading drifts. 

                          They are unusable as is.

                           

                          Might your averaging system apply to make this useable?

                          More info off-line if needed.

                           

                          Also, I'd love to learn how to use the Arduino, am esp interested in the

                          AC power shield and motor controller. 

                           

                          lance

                          ++++

                           

                          On Sep 25, 2013, at 11:55 AM, Rick Sparber wrote:




                          Thanks for the encouraging words. My insanity is solidly intact and I have no intensions of ending my quest to “till at windmills”. I firmly believe that if one of my ideas out of 100 is really great, then it was worth the effort. To me, failure is giving up. My primary goal on the measuring system was to learn to program the Arduino and handle the hardware. It has been a roaring success. Now I’m itching to find my next application of this technology!

                           

                           




                        • Rick Sparber
                          Frank, I had to look up the SI570 Direct Synthesizer with band switching. My playground is closer to DC. I do think that you are right to think about marrying
                          Message 12 of 19 , Sep 25, 2013

                            Frank,

                             

                            I had to look up the SI570 Direct Synthesizer with band switching. My playground is closer to DC.  I do think that you are right to think about marrying this synthesizer with an Arduino. Are you so sure it hasn’t already been done?

                             

                            Rick

                             

                            From: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com [mailto:atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Frank
                            Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 9:46 AM
                            To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] &quot;HOME&quot; shops... was &quot;an experimental measuring system&quot;

                             




                            Rick,

                            Way off topic, but how about an SI570 Direct Synthesizer with band switching info using an Arduino for you next project.

                            Frank - W4NHJ

                            -

                            On 9/25/13 11:55 AM, Rick Sparber wrote:

                             

                            Phil,

                             

                            Thanks for the encouraging words. My insanity is solidly intact and I have no intensions of ending my quest to “till at windmills”. I firmly believe that if one of my ideas out of 100 is really great, then it was worth the effort. To me, failure is giving up. My primary goal on the measuring system was to learn to program the Arduino and handle the hardware. It has been a roaring success. Now I’m itching to find my next application of this technology!

                             

                            Rick

                             

                            From: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com [mailto:atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of philip.a.sutcliffe@...
                            Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 2:20 AM
                            To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: RE: [atlas_craftsman] &quot;HOME&quot; shops... was &quot;an experimental measuring system&quot;

                             



                            Rick, As a regular 'lurker' on this forum (I call it 'Lurk & Learn') I really enjoy following your projects where I can and I hope they will continue, pushing the envelope of your abilities and the limits of your tooling is the mark of a progressive engineer, the positive responses you get show the affinity other members have for what you are trying to do. I take my hat off to you for even attempting to attain such standards, thanks for letting me share and learn from your projects.

                            Phil Sutcliffe Dewsbury UK





                          • Curt Wuollet
                            There is nothing special about the hardware, so why is the Arduino such a big hit? It s just a minimal implementation of a relatively obscure Atmel processor
                            Message 13 of 19 , Sep 25, 2013
                              There is nothing special about the hardware, so why is the Arduino such a big hit? It's just a minimal implementation of a relatively obscure Atmel processor series. What makes it way more popular than any number of equally viable products? What you are seeing is the powerful effect of Open Hardware, Open Software and most of all, a community. The effort to make uPs more approachable and much more user friendly has payed off on an amazing scale. And a large and active community has every embedded processor maker wishing they knew how to attract a community. And Atmel really didn't have much to do with it. Open Source Software, particularly Embedded Linux and Android, have completely turned the embedded world upside down. And projects like Arduino are promoting interest in embedded applications like we haven't seen since the very early days of the microprocessor. Raspberry PI is another tremendous hit. And that's a very good thing for the future of my chosen field.

                              Regards

                              cww


                              On 09/25/2013 10:31 PM, Rick Sparber wrote:

                              Lance,

                               

                              Something is very wrong with either the igaging DROs or the way they are mounted. If it was me, I would start by trying to understand the root cause of these problems. Just connecting these DROs to a processor won’t get you better results. For example, how could a computer know what to do during that first 0.25” of movement when the display doesn’t move at all?

                               

                              I took out many books from the library on programming Arduinos. The best of the bunch was the one by Simon Monk. It also helps A LOT to find someone you can contact when you get stumped. I’m very lucky to have a student that knows a lot about Arduinos and the related support systems. The docs range from excellent to awful so it is very difficult to do it all by yourself.

                               

                              If you want a low cost way to get started learning about the Arduino, I suggest the sparkfun.com product called the Pro Micro. It costs $20 + s/h. Connect up a USB cable and you are ready to go. All software is free. The Arduino software development system works well. I wrote over 8K of program with it.

                               

                              Those “shields” do let you avoid getting into electronics but they sure can be expensive. Given my background, I’m happier adding my own circuits to the Arduino.

                               

                              Peace,

                               

                              Rick

                               

                              From: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com [mailto:atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eggleston Lance
                              Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 9:37 AM
                              To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman]an experimental measuring system

                               



                              Rick,

                               

                              Someone mentioned it before, but I will repeat.

                               

                              Here's a project I would like help with and your Ardunino

                              project may be the solution.

                               

                              I have two igaging digital DRO units.

                              I have made adapters to mount them longitudinally and

                              cross wise on my 16" SBL.

                               

                              However, in use, the digital counter does not start to move until

                              the cross slide has moved 0.25" and the reading drifts. 

                              They are unusable as is.

                               

                              Might your averaging system apply to make this useable?

                              More info off-line if needed.

                               

                              Also, I'd love to learn how to use the Arduino, am esp interested in the

                              AC power shield and motor controller. 

                               

                              lance

                              ++++

                               

                              On Sep 25, 2013, at 11:55 AM, Rick Sparber wrote:




                              Thanks for the encouraging words. My insanity is solidly intact and I have no intensions of ending my quest to “till at windmills”. I firmly believe that if one of my ideas out of 100 is really great, then it was worth the effort. To me, failure is giving up. My primary goal on the measuring system was to learn to program the Arduino and handle the hardware. It has been a roaring success. Now I’m itching to find my next application of this technology!

                               

                               





                            • jtiers
                              True. One big benefit of it though, is that you can get a reasonable processor, on a PWA, much cheaper than it would be to develop your own PWB and have it
                              Message 14 of 19 , Sep 26, 2013
                                True.
                                 
                                One big benefit of it though, is that you can get a reasonable processor, on a PWA, much cheaper than it would be to develop your own PWB and have it made.  Nothing whatever says you must use the "Arduino" software in any way whatsoever. Many people use the board as a cheap way to getting hardware, and bag the "intended" software entirely.
                                 
                                JT
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 11:54 PM
                                Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman]an experimental measuring system

                                There is nothing special about the hardware, so why is the Arduino such a big hit? It's just a minimal implementation of a relatively obscure Atmel processor series. What makes it way more popular than any number of equally viable products? What you are seeing is the powerful effect of Open Hardware, Open Software and most of all, a community. The effort to make uPs more approachable and much more user friendly has payed off on an amazing scale. And a large and active community has every embedded processor maker wishing they knew how to attract a community. And Atmel really didn't have much to do with it. Open Source Software, particularly Embedded Linux and Android, have completely turned the embedded world upside down. And projects like Arduino are promoting interest in embedded applications like we haven't seen since the very early days of the microprocessor. Raspberry PI is another tremendous hit. And that's a very good thing for the future of my chosen field.

                                Regards

                                cww


                                On 09/25/2013 10:31 PM, Rick Sparber wrote:
                                 
                              • phowell_7
                                Lance, I have to agree with Rick in that something is very wrong with the DRO or the way it s mounted. I just installed an iGaging DRO on my lathe for the
                                Message 15 of 19 , Sep 26, 2013
                                  Lance,

                                  I have to agree with Rick in that something is very wrong with the DRO or the way it's mounted. I just installed an iGaging DRO on my lathe for the carriage. There is no delay in the reading when the carriage is moved and it so far seems to function perfectly. The zero point is even maintained if I don't move the carriage when I turn it on and off. I only have three screws holding the unit on the mount points, one on each end of the scale and one attaching the reader to the carriage itself.

                                  Paul H.

                                   



                                  ---In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                  Lance,

                                   

                                  Something is very wrong with either the igaging DROs or the way they are mounted. If it was me, I would start by trying to understand the root cause of these problems. Just connecting these DROs to a processor won’t get you better results. For example, how could a computer know what to do during that first 0.25” of movement when the display doesn’t move at all?

                                   

                                  I took out many books from the library on programming Arduinos. The best of the bunch was the one by Simon Monk. It also helps A LOT to find someone you can contact when you get stumped. I’m very lucky to have a student that knows a lot about Arduinos and the related support systems. The docs range from excellent to awful so it is very difficult to do it all by yourself.

                                   

                                  If you want a low cost way to get started learning about the Arduino, I suggest the sparkfun.com product called the Pro Micro. It costs $20 + s/h. Connect up a USB cable and you are ready to go. All software is free. The Arduino software development system works well. I wrote over 8K of program with it.

                                   

                                  Those “shields” do let you avoid getting into electronics but they sure can be expensive. Given my background, I’m happier adding my own circuits to the Arduino.

                                   

                                  Peace,

                                   

                                  Rick

                                   

                                  From: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com [mailto:atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eggleston Lance
                                  Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 9:37 AM
                                  To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman]an experimental measuring system

                                   



                                  Rick,

                                   

                                  Someone mentioned it before, but I will repeat.

                                   

                                  Here's a project I would like help with and your Ardunino

                                  project may be the solution.

                                   

                                  I have two igaging digital DRO units.

                                  I have made adapters to mount them longitudinally and

                                  cross wise on my 16" SBL.

                                   

                                  However, in use, the digital counter does not start to move until

                                  the cross slide has moved 0.25" and the reading drifts. 

                                  They are unusable as is.

                                   

                                  Might your averaging system apply to make this useable?

                                  More info off-line if needed.

                                   

                                  Also, I'd love to learn how to use the Arduino, am esp interested in the

                                  AC power shield and motor controller. 

                                   

                                  lance

                                  ++++

                                   

                                  On Sep 25, 2013, at 11:55 AM, Rick Sparber wrote:




                                  Thanks for the encouraging words. My insanity is solidly intact and I have no intensions of ending my quest to “till at windmills”. I firmly believe that if one of my ideas out of 100 is really great, then it was worth the effort. To me, failure is giving up. My primary goal on the measuring system was to learn to program the Arduino and handle the hardware. It has been a roaring success. Now I’m itching to find my next application of this technology!

                                   

                                   




                                • EdwinB
                                  Frank, Google K5BCQ. He has an Si570 DDS kit he sells at cost. 73, Ed - N5KZW
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Sep 26, 2013
                                    Frank, Google K5BCQ. He has an Si570 DDS kit he sells at cost.

                                    73,
                                    Ed - N5KZW

                                    --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, Frank <w4nhj@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Rick,
                                    >
                                    > Way off topic, but how about an SI570 Direct Synthesizer with band
                                    > switching info using an Arduinofor you next project.
                                    >
                                    > Frank - W4NHJ
                                    >
                                    > -
                                    > On 9/25/13 11:55 AM, Rick Sparber wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Phil,
                                    > >
                                    > > Thanks for the encouraging words. My insanity is solidly intact and I
                                    > > have no intensions of ending my quest to “till at windmills”. I firmly
                                    > > believe that if one of my ideas out of 100 is really great, then it
                                    > > was worth the effort. To me, failure is giving up. My primary goal on
                                    > > the measuring system was to learn to program the Arduino and handle
                                    > > the hardware. It has been a roaring success. Now I’m itching to find
                                    > > my next application of this technology!
                                    > >
                                    > > Rick
                                    > >
                                    > > *From:*atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > [mailto:atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of
                                    > > *philip.a.sutcliffe@...
                                    > > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 25, 2013 2:20 AM
                                    > > *To:* atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > *Subject:* RE: RE: [atlas_craftsman] "HOME" shops... was
                                    > > "an experimental measuring system"
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Rick, As a regular 'lurker' on this forum (I call it 'Lurk & Learn') I
                                    > > really enjoy following your projects where I can and I hope they will
                                    > > continue, pushing the envelope of your abilities and the limits of
                                    > > your tooling is the mark of a progressive engineer, the positive
                                    > > responses you get show the affinity other members have for what you
                                    > > are trying to do. I take my hat off to you for even attempting to
                                    > > attain such standards, thanks for letting me share and learn from your
                                    > > projects.
                                    > >
                                    > > Phil Sutcliffe Dewsbury UK
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • Gary Patterson
                                    ... On Sep 26, 2013 10:28 AM, EdwinB wrote: � Frank, Google K5BCQ. He has an Si570 DDS kit he sells at cost. 73, Ed - N5KZW
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Sep 26, 2013
                                      On Sep 26, 2013 10:28 AM, "EdwinB" <n5kzw@...> wrote:
                                       

                                      Frank, Google K5BCQ. He has an Si570 DDS kit he sells at cost.

                                      73,
                                      Ed - N5KZW

                                      --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, Frank <w4nhj@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Rick,
                                      >
                                      > Way off topic, but how about an SI570 Direct Synthesizer with band
                                      > switching info using an Arduinofor you next project.
                                      >
                                      > Frank - W4NHJ
                                      >
                                      > -
                                      > On 9/25/13 11:55 AM, Rick Sparber wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Phil,
                                      > >
                                      > > Thanks for the encouraging words. My insanity is solidly intact and I
                                      > > have no intensions of ending my quest to “till at windmills†. I firmly
                                      > > believe that if one of my ideas out of 100 is really great, then it
                                      > > was worth the effort. To me, failure is giving up. My primary goal on
                                      > > the measuring system was to learn to program the Arduino and handle
                                      > > the hardware. It has been a roaring success. Now I’m itching to find
                                      > > my next application of this technology!
                                      > >
                                      > > Rick
                                      > >
                                      > > *From:*atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > [mailto:atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of
                                      > > *philip.a.sutcliffe@...
                                      > > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 25, 2013 2:20 AM
                                      > > *To:* atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > *Subject:* RE: RE: [atlas_craftsman] "HOME" shops... was
                                      > > "an experimental measuring system"
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Rick, As a regular 'lurker' on this forum (I call it 'Lurk & Learn') I
                                      > > really enjoy following your projects where I can and I hope they will
                                      > > continue, pushing the envelope of your abilities and the limits of
                                      > > your tooling is the mark of a progressive engineer, the positive
                                      > > responses you get show the affinity other members have for what you
                                      > > are trying to do. I take my hat off to you for even attempting to
                                      > > attain such standards, thanks for letting me share and learn from your
                                      > > projects.
                                      > >
                                      > > Phil Sutcliffe Dewsbury UK
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >

                                    • Curt Wuollet
                                      I write in C, but the arduino method is fairly efficient as it s a fairly thin layer on top of C. And it gets people programming without the host of fussy
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Sep 26, 2013
                                        I write in C, but the arduino method is fairly efficient as it's a fairly thin layer on top of C. And it gets people programming without the host of fussy details you need to know to write C for a small processor without an OS. It isn't that spendy making your own boards these days either. I can get three boards for $5/sq.in. and I use PCB on linux so that's free. But i've seen freeduino blanks for $3 which is hard to beat. I like the serial versions which aren't in favor anymore, because USB isn't good for any distance. But yes, even though I can design and make my own boards it's a lot easier to ride the arduino shirttails.
                                        I did design and build a DRO shield, but abandoned it because it would cost more than the iGauging stuff.
                                        Regards

                                        cww 

                                        On 09/26/2013 07:15 AM, jerdal@... wrote:
                                        True.
                                         
                                        One big benefit of it though, is that you can get a reasonable processor, on a PWA, much cheaper than it would be to develop your own PWB and have it made.  Nothing whatever says you must use the "Arduino" software in any way whatsoever. Many people use the board as a cheap way to getting hardware, and bag the "intended" software entirely.
                                         
                                        JT
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 11:54 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman]an experimental measuring system

                                        There is nothing special about the hardware, so why is the Arduino such a big hit? It's just a minimal implementation of a relatively obscure Atmel processor series. What makes it way more popular than any number of equally viable products? What you are seeing is the powerful effect of Open Hardware, Open Software and most of all, a community. The effort to make uPs more approachable and much more user friendly has payed off on an amazing scale. And a large and active community has every embedded processor maker wishing they knew how to attract a community. And Atmel really didn't have much to do with it. Open Source Software, particularly Embedded Linux and Android, have completely turned the embedded world upside down. And projects like Arduino are promoting interest in embedded applications like we haven't seen since the very early days of the microprocessor. Raspberry PI is another tremendous hit. And that's a very good thing for the future of my chosen field.

                                        Regards

                                        cww


                                        On 09/25/2013 10:31 PM, Rick Sparber wrote:
                                         

                                      • Rick Sparber
                                        CWW, I came to the same conclusion about using an Arduino as just a DRO. Beyond the fact that it costs more than an iGauge, it is nothing new. IMHO, the fun is
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Sep 26, 2013

                                          CWW,

                                           

                                          I came to the same conclusion about using an Arduino as just a DRO. Beyond the fact that it costs more than an iGauge, it is nothing new. IMHO, the fun is just beginning when you can pull the caliper data into a processor. Why stop at that point?

                                           

                                          Rick

                                           

                                          From: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com [mailto:atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Curt Wuollet
                                          Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 6:44 PM
                                          To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                          Cc: jerdal@...
                                          Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman]an experimental measuring system

                                           




                                          I write in C, but the arduino method is fairly efficient as it's a fairly thin layer on top of C. And it gets people programming without the host of fussy details you need to know to write C for a small processor without an OS. It isn't that spendy making your own boards these days either. I can get three boards for $5/sq.in. and I use PCB on linux so that's free. But i've seen freeduino blanks for $3 which is hard to beat. I like the serial versions which aren't in favor anymore, because USB isn't good for any distance. But yes, even though I can design and make my own boards it's a lot easier to ride the arduino shirttails.
                                          I did design and build a DRO shield, but abandoned it because it would cost more than the iGauging stuff.
                                          Regards

                                          cww 

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