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Re: [atlas_craftsman] RE: This should be easy: Fair value guestimate on 101....

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  • wa5cab
    WRT the prices, they might be taken as what someone posting for sale on this or similar lists might ask. Amongst ourselves, at least most of us would probably
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 29, 2013
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      WRT the prices, they might be taken as what someone posting for sale on this or similar lists might ask.  Amongst ourselves, at least most of us would probably take less than if we went to the not insignificant trouble of listing them on CL or eBay.

      WRT the babbit versus Timken question, short answer is yes.  But not because in equivalent (tight) condition one wouldn't perform as well as the other.  You can today buy and replace the Timken bearings.  But not the babbit ones.  You can remove shims and tighten up the babbits.  But compensating for the increased wear that will occur at the chuck end of the spindle is another matter.  However, at least half of my price reduction was due to no power cross feed.

      Robert D.

      In a message dated 08/29/2013 22:35:44 PM Central Daylight Time, yaeffinhoo@... writes:
      Thanks for the input guys.  In terms of give/sell, all I can say is that every family has their own dynamics and what we have works well enough for us.  Its not out of the question, but not the plan at the moment. 

      Is there a major difference between the value on the roller bearing units and the babbitt units? The estimates you guys tossed out there are still more than I expected to ask for the lathe by quite a bit, but are also substantially lower than the asking or even selling prices for bare lathes of any type or brand that I've seen in the local classifieds or auctions site. Ditto for the accessories.  I know a lot of people have pie in the sky prices in mind, but still, even being patient and shopping for the best deals, I doubt I could match those prices if I was buying instead of selling.




      --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, <bloomingtonmike@...> wrote:

      Someday you will kill to be able to give that lathe away to him for free.

      On Aug 27, 2013 1:49 PM, <yaeffinhoo@...> wrote:
        Afternoon everybody,
      I'm upgrading and will be selling my old Craftsman 12x36 lathe (probably) to my father.  I know about what I'd like to get from it as a "family deal", but I want to make sure that I haven't missed the mark drastically so I don't overcharge him.  I've checked craigslist and ebay, but there seems to be a lot of high asking prices and not a lot of examples showing what they actually sell for.

      Anyway, this is a 101.07383 model with babbitt headstock, and no power cross feed.  It is in very good condition.  Not pristine but it's seen remarkably little use considering its age.  I'll be selling it with a steadyrest, 3 and 4 jaw chucks, lantern toolpost, probably a 4 way quick change tool post, a couple tailstock drill chucks, various centers, faceplate and drive dogs, lots of tool steel, spare motor, milling attachment, two+ sets of change gears and probably a few other odds and ends.

      Forget asking prices, I'm curious to know what everybody thinks a reasonable selling price would be for a combo like this after negotiating with a buyer/seller.  I'm going to get a fair amount less than market value since its staying in the family, but I would like to have a solid idea of market value to begin with.

      Thanks for the input.
      Scott












    • Charles
      I have bought four Atlas 10 inch lathes and never paid more than $300.   The $300 came with change gears, center rest, steady rest, 3 and 4 jaw chucks (both
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 29, 2013
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        I have bought four Atlas 10 inch lathes and never paid more than $300.   The $300 came with change gears, center rest, steady rest, 3 and 4 jaw chucks (both worn)  A bunch of morse taper tools for the tailstock including jacobs chucks and a well made home made taper attachment.   I bought that one twice for $300 (only counting it once though).  Once when I then sold it to a good friend and then again when I bought it from his heirs.  If you are patient and scan the various sales venues everyday, whatever it is that you want can be found cheaply.   Babbit bearings are replaceable as well, though since we are getting to the point that many machinists cannot read a vernier, or even spin a crank  (they work the keyboard) it probably doesn't matter. 

        Charles


        From: "wa5cab@..." <wa5cab@...>


        WRT the prices, they might be taken as what someone posting for sale on this or similar lists might ask.  Amongst ourselves, at least most of us would probably take less than if we went to the not insignificant trouble of listing them on CL or eBay.

        WRT the babbit versus Timken question, short answer is yes.  But not because in equivalent (tight) condition one wouldn't perform as well as the other.  You can today buy and replace the Timken bearings.  But not the babbit ones.  You can remove shims and tighten up the babbits.  But compensating for the increased wear that will occur at the chuck end of the spindle is another matter.  However, at least half of my price reduction was due to no power cross feed.

        Robert D
      • wa5cab
        The problem is that after you have new bearings poured, you still have to line bore them. In a message dated 8/30/2013 1:33:25 PM Central Daylight Time, ...
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 30, 2013
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          The problem is that after you have new bearings poured, you still have to line bore them.

          In a message dated 8/30/2013 1:33:25 PM Central Daylight Time, smith975@... writes:
          Thoughts on Babbitt. I just joined the group this month and have been watching with interest the different posts. I purchased an Atlas 10" TH54 with an assorted amount of tooling at auction for $400.00 it has the Timken bearing head and seems to be in very good shape. I can see several new bearings and everything seems to be tight. It is replacing an older lathe that had a Babbitt head. I had no problems with the Babbitt head except a little heat buildup if running at higher speeds. I have a friend who for years was an active member of an old engine club. Many old engines have Babbitt bearing that need replacing. If you need new Babbitt bearing look for an old engine club in your area and most likely someone will pour you new bearings for the price of the Babbitt. Depending on the Babbitt type (compound of metals) it can be spendy.

          JS


          Robert & Susan Downs - Houston
          wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
          MVPA 9480
        • Scott Henion
          ... Why? They should be the right size when poured and aligned as long as the spindle is set up properly when poured. -- ... Scott G. Henion Craftsman 12x36
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 30, 2013
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            On 8/31/2013 12:56 AM, wa5cab@... wrote:
            The problem is that after you have new bearings poured, you still have to line bore them.

            Why? They should be the right size when poured and aligned as long as the spindle is set up properly when poured.

            --
            ------------------------------------------------------------
            	Scott G. Henion
            Craftsman 12x36 lathe: http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36
            Welding pages and homemade welder: http://shdesigns.org/Welding
            -----------------------------------------------------------------
          • Charles
            I have not done a lathe yet, but I never bored them, just scraped to get the proper clearance. Charles Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 30, 2013
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              I have not done a lathe yet, but I never bored them, just scraped to get the proper clearance.

              Charles

              Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



              From: wa5cab@... <wa5cab@...>;
              To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>;
              Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: This should be easy: Fair value guestimate on 101....
              Sent: Sat, Aug 31, 2013 4:56:43 AM



              The problem is that after you have new bearings poured, you still have to line bore them.

              In a message dated 8/30/2013 1:33:25 PM Central Daylight Time, smith975@... writes:
              Thoughts on Babbitt. I just joined the group this month and have been watching with interest the different posts. I purchased an Atlas 10" TH54 with an assorted amount of tooling at auction for $400.00 it has the Timken bearing head and seems to be in very good shape. I can see several new bearings and everything seems to be tight. It is replacing an older lathe that had a Babbitt head. I had no problems with the Babbitt head except a little heat buildup if running at higher speeds. I have a friend who for years was an active member of an old engine club. Many old engines have Babbitt bearing that need replacing. If you need new Babbitt bearing look for an old engine club in your area and most likely someone will pour you new bearings for the price of the Babbitt. Depending on the Babbitt type (compound of metals) it can be spendy.

              JS


              Robert & Susan Downs - Houston
              wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
              MVPA 9480


            • James Irwin
              You obviously have no clue about how babbitt bearings are poured in place and NOT disturbed once poured. That¹s one of the things we had do do and learn in
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 31, 2013
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                Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: This should be easy:  Fair value guestimate on 101.... You obviously have no clue about how babbitt bearings are poured in place and NOT disturbed once poured.
                That’s one of the things we had do do and learn in machining class as we were making a machine tool from pattern making thru final assembly and test.


                On 8/30/13 11:56 PM, "wa5cab@..." wrote:


                 
                 
                   

                The problem is that after you have new bearings poured, you still have to line bore them.

                In a message dated 8/30/2013 1:33:25 PM Central Daylight Time, smith975@... writes:
                Thoughts on Babbitt. I just joined the group this month and have been watching with interest the different posts. I purchased an Atlas 10" TH54 with an assorted amount of tooling at auction for $400.00 it has the Timken bearing head and seems to be in very good shape. I can see several new bearings and everything seems to be tight. It is replacing an older lathe that had a Babbitt head. I had no problems with the Babbitt head except a little heat buildup if running at higher speeds. I have a friend who for years was an active member of an old engine club. Many old engines have Babbitt bearing that need replacing. If you need new Babbitt bearing look for an old engine club in your area and most likely someone will pour you new bearings for the price of the Babbitt. Depending on the Babbitt type (compound of metals) it can be spendy.

                JS


                Robert & Susan Downs - Houston
                wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
                MVPA 9480

                   


              • jtiers
                Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: This should be easy: Fair value guestimate on 101....Hmmmm.... If poured in place and left, there is a tight clearance... usually
                Message 7 of 9 , Aug 31, 2013
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                  Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: This should be easy:  Fair value guestimate on 101....
                  Hmmmm....
                   
                  If poured in place and left, there is a tight clearance... usually there is some work to scrape them to fit, if you use a "model shaft"  . If you pour around the actual shaft, you still have a tight clearance, but it may wear out to be OK, will be hot for a while.  Probably it will be too close for good oiling, though, depending on the shrinkage.
                   
                  Do you count scraping oil grooves as "disturbing" the babbit?
                   
                  JT
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  To: Atlas
                  Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 5:39 PM
                  Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: This should be easy: Fair value guestimate on 101....

                  You obviously have no clue about how babbitt bearings are poured in place and NOT disturbed once poured.
                  That’s one of the things we had do do and learn in machining class as we were making a machine tool from pattern making thru final assembly and test.

                • James Smith
                  For anyone interested check out Keith Fenner s videos on YouTube. Very good videos of babbit pours and scraping to size. From: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                  Message 8 of 9 , Aug 31, 2013
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                    For anyone interested check out Keith Fenner's videos on YouTube. Very good videos of babbit pours and scraping to size.

                     

                    From: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com [mailto:atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Irwin
                    Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 3:40 PM
                    To: Atlas
                    Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: This should be easy: Fair value guestimate on 101....

                     

                     

                    You obviously have no clue about how babbitt bearings are poured in place and NOT disturbed once poured.
                    That’s one of the things we had do do and learn in machining class as we were making a machine tool from pattern making thru final assembly and test.


                    On 8/30/13 11:56 PM, "wa5cab@..." wrote:


                     
                     
                       

                    The problem is that after you have new bearings poured, you still have to line bore them.

                    In a message dated 8/30/2013 1:33:25 PM Central Daylight Time, smith975@... writes:

                    Thoughts on Babbitt. I just joined the group this month and have been watching with interest the different posts. I purchased an Atlas 10" TH54 with an assorted amount of tooling at auction for $400.00 it has the Timken bearing head and seems to be in very good shape. I can see several new bearings and everything seems to be tight. It is replacing an older lathe that had a Babbitt head. I had no problems with the Babbitt head except a little heat buildup if running at higher speeds. I have a friend who for years was an active member of an old engine club. Many old engines have Babbitt bearing that need replacing. If you need new Babbitt bearing look for an old engine club in your area and most likely someone will pour you new bearings for the price of the Babbitt. Depending on the Babbitt type (compound of metals) it can be spendy.

                    JS



                    Robert & Susan Downs - Houston
                    wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
                    MVPA 9480

                       

                  • wa5cab
                    The practical problem with pouring new babbit bearings using the existing spindle as part of the mold is that you have to be able to place and hold the spindle
                    Message 9 of 9 , Aug 31, 2013
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                      The practical problem with pouring new babbit bearings using the existing spindle as part of the mold is that you have to be able to place and hold the spindle in the correct location.  You need to be able to locate and hold the spindle within probably +/- .005" front to back, +/- .001" up and down, and at a guess .0005" in 12" in both pitch and yaw.  In other words, you need to be able to pour bearings as accurately as the factory originally line bored them.

                      Robert D.

                      In a message dated 8/31/2013 6:27:26 PM Central Daylight Time, jerdal@... writes:
                      Hmmmm....

                       
                      If poured in place and left, there is a tight clearance... usually there is some work to scrape them to fit, if you use a "model shaft"  . If you pour around the actual shaft, you still have a tight clearance, but it may wear out to be OK, will be hot for a while.  Probably it will be too close for good oiling, though, depending on the shrinkage.
                       
                      Do you count scraping oil grooves as "disturbing" the babbit?
                       
                      JT


                      Robert & Susan Downs - Houston
                      wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
                      MVPA 9480
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