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Re: [atlas_craftsman] Timkin bearing recess

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  • jerry Herrera
    Makes sence. Off they come. This is a great and informative forum. Im really excited on wotking with this lathe.
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 23, 2013
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      Makes sence. Off they come. This is a great and informative forum. Im really excited on wotking with this lathe.

      ------------------------------
      On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 9:48 AM PDT wa5cab@... wrote:

      >Jerry,
      >
      >First, if you cut the riser blocks in half, you'd have 15" swing, not 13".
      >As configured, I don't think you can set up most of the 3-gear combinations
      >on the threading chart, and definitely not the 2-gear ones (I'm counting
      >compound gears as 1 gear). So some of the threads and feeds may not be
      >attainable and some will not be. However, if you make up a compound gear with two
      >of the same gears, and maybe reverse the Front and Back positions from
      >there through to the screw gear, you might be able to get down into the feed
      >range. Remember that although each added gear position reverses the direction
      >of rotation/travel, only compound gears affect the ratio. It's initially a
      >hard concept to get your head around.
      >
      >If it were mine, I would just remove the risers unless I actually had some
      >light work to do that required them.
      >
      >On the chatter, some is no doubt from the presence of the riser blocks.
      >However, I would guess the majority is from the tool post, which even in its
      >normal configuration is none too stiff.
      >
      >As far as the risers being aluminum instead of steel, I doubt that that is
      >much if any of the problem.
      >
      >In a message dated 07/23/2013 09:38:04 AM Central Daylight Time,
      >jerster1959@... writes:
      >>
      >> The PO said that it did chatter. If I cut them down. Say half. To give me
      >> an extra inch. Do you t hink id still be able to do some threading? Just
      >> wondering if the gear he added affects the threading chart setup. Also the
      >> spacers are made of aluminum. Would that cause soms of the chatter?
      >>
      >
      >Robert Downs - Houston
      >wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
      >MVPA 9480
    • anthrhodes
      Jerry and Robert, Of course you can use the original change gear chart. At worst you would have to insert one or two idler gears to span the gap. In fact the
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 24, 2013
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        Jerry and Robert,
         
        Of course you can use the original change gear chart. At worst you would have to insert one or two idler gears to span the gap. In fact the photo shown as an attachment has an idler on the second of three change gear studs. It won't change the drive ratio but will reverse the direction of traverse. No problem because the tumbler reverse will select whichever direction of feed you require.
         
        It would be interesting to see the banjo without any gears installed. It's apparently a 2-arm banjo but it may be longer than standard, in order to reach high enough with the raised spindle.
         
        Anthony
        Berkeley, Calif.
        ********************************************
        In a message dated Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:48 am (PDT), wa5cab writes:
        First, if you cut the riser blocks in half, you'd have 15" swing, not 13".
        As configured, I don't think you can set up most of the 3-gear combinations
        on the threading chart, and definitely not the 2-gear ones (I'm counting
        compound gears as 1 gear). So some of the threads and feeds may not be
        attainable and some will not be. However, if you make up a compound gear with two
        of the same gears, and maybe reverse the Front and Back positions from
        there through to the screw gear, you might be able to get down into the feed
        range. Remember that although each added gear position reverses the direction
        of rotation/travel, only compound gears affect the ratio. It's initially a
        hard concept to get your head around.
      • jerry Herrera
        On the subject of the bearing grades. As im looking for bearings I have noticed some bearings have #3 next to them. Is this the grade? I have found bearings
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 24, 2013
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          On the subject of the bearing grades. As im looking for bearings I have noticed some bearings have #3 next to them. Is this the grade? I have found bearings but I heard that a example TIMKIN 16150 could also be a bearing for a car. Is there another way to make sure I purchase a bearing for a machine and not a car.


          ------------------------------
          On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 4:58 PM PDT wa5cab@... wrote:

          >Rowe & Co., INC, Johnsonburg, NJ, sold me a set of spindle bearings (two
          >cups & two cones) for $132.05 total. I did some checking and they are genuine
          >Timken, actually shipped out of the plant in TN. However, I have not used
          >them yet as after I bought them, I got into some discussions about tapered
          >roller bearing grades. And haven't yet been able to determine what grade
          >these are.
          >
          >On another subject, as you have the original bearings with the dates out,
          >we need to save that information. If you will send me the model number (I
          >presume probably 101.07403) and the serial number I'll put the informaition
          >into the database. We have nearly 300 entries but 95% either have no dates,
          >no serial numbers, or both. And some of the dates that are there are either
          >suspect or obviously wrong.
          >
          >Robert Downs - Houston
          >wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
          >MVPA 9480
          >
          >In a message dated 07/22/2013 17:44:02 PM Central Daylight Time,
          >srjones@... writes:
          >> jerryH,
          >>
          >> Try Amazon:
          >> http://www.amazon.com/Timken-Tapered-Standard-Tolerance-Diameter/dp/B00460H
          >> CCO
          >>
          >> Price $57.44
          >>
          >> Steve
          >>
          >> On 7/22/2013 3:34 PM, jerryH wrote:
          >> >Hi guys. I have disassembled my 12x36 and im now looking to replace my
          >> bearings.
          >> >Kinda dont want to because of the date marked 10-9-45 on them but they
          >> are worn.
          >> >The price for the Timkin 16284-B is 117.86 is the cheapest I have
          >> found so far.
          >> >Is that what everyone else has found it to be? does anybody knoe
          >> anywhere i can get it cheaper?
        • wa5cab
          The term used with tapered roller bearings is Class rather than Grade . But the connotation is the same. ANSI recognizes, from coarse to fine, or from not
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 24, 2013
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            The term used with tapered roller bearings is "Class" rather than "Grade".  But the connotation is the same.

            ANSI recognizes, from coarse to fine, or from not so good to much better, Classes 4, 2, 3, 0 and 00.  Timken currently shows 3, 0, 00 and 000 which they actually call C, B, A and AA.  Grossly oversimplifying the ANSI tables, for tapered roller bearings up to and including 12" diameter, the radial runout limits (which happen to be the main thing that we would be concerned with) versus class are:

            4   .0020"
            2   .0015"
            3   .0003"
            0   .00015"
            00 .000075"

            Note that either 4 or 2 would be OK for light car wheel bearings so I would assume that at least non-Timken bearings bought from an auto parts chain store would be one of those.

            Go to

            http://www.timken.com/en-us/solutions/machinetools/Pages/BearingPrecisionLevels.aspx

            for the only chart I've been able to locate on the Timken site showing precision levels and what the various ones are suitable for.  I have no idea how this chart compares to what would have been available back in 1935 or so when Atlas first offered lathes with Timken bearings.

            This chart lists Class C or 3 as suitable for conventional lathes and milling machines.

            I have not been able to confirm so far that Timken ships nothing today worse than Class 3.  I have a contact that I might be able to get an answer from in a few days.

            If you really want the ANSI/ABEC (for radial ball bearings and some other types) and ANSI/ABMA (for tapered roller bearings) standards they will cost you about $100.00 for a download.

            Robert D.

            In a message dated 07/24/2013 17:32:19 PM Central Daylight Time, jerster1959@... writes:
            On the subject of the bearing grades. As im looking for bearings I have noticed some bearings have #3 next to them. Is this the grade? I have found bearings but I heard that a example TIMKIN 16150 could also be a bearing for a car. Is there another way to make sure I purchase a bearing for a machine and not a car.


            ------------------------------
            On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 4:58 PM PDT wa5cab@... wrote:

            >Rowe &Co., INC, Johnsonburg, NJ, sold me a set of spindle bearings (two
            >cups &two cones) for $132.05 total.  I did some checking and they are genuine
            >Timken, actually shipped out of the plant in TN.  However, I have not used
            >them yet as after I bought them, I got into some discussions about tapered
            >roller bearing grades.  And haven't yet been able to determine what grade
            >these are.
            >
            >On another subject, as you have the original bearings with the dates out,
            >we need to save that information.  If you will send me the model number (I
            >presume probably 101.07403) and the serial number I'll put the informaition
            >into the database.  We have nearly 300  entries but 95% either have no dates,
            >no serial numbers, or both.  And some of the dates that are there are either
            >suspect or obviously wrong.
            >
            >Robert Downs - Houston
            >wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
            >MVPA 9480


            Robert & Susan Downs - Houston
            wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
            MVPA 9480
          • wa5cab
            Can you point me to an example or two showing the 3 ? Robert D. In a message dated 07/24/2013 17:32:19 PM Central Daylight Time,
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 24, 2013
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              Can you point me to an example or two showing the "3"?

              Robert D.

              In a message dated 07/24/2013 17:32:19 PM Central Daylight Time, jerster1959@... writes:
              On the subject of the bearing grades. As im looking for bearings I have noticed some bearings have #3 next to them. Is this the grade? I have found bearings but I heard that a example TIMKIN 16150 could also be a bearing for a car. Is there another way to make sure I purchase a bearing for a machine and not a car.


              ------------------------------
              On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 4:58 PM PDT wa5cab@... wrote:

              >Rowe &Co., INC, Johnsonburg, NJ, sold me a set of spindle bearings (two
              >cups &two cones) for $132.05 total.  I did some checking and they are genuine
              >Timken, actually shipped out of the plant in TN.  However, I have not used
              >them yet as after I bought them, I got into some discussions about tapered
              >roller bearing grades.  And haven't yet been able to determine what grade
              >these are.
              >
              >On another subject, as you have the original bearings with the dates out,
              >we need to save that information.  If you will send me the model number (I
              >presume probably 101.07403) and the serial number I'll put the informaition
              >into the database.  We have nearly 300  entries but 95% either have no dates,
              >no serial numbers, or both.  And some of the dates that are there are either
              >suspect or obviously wrong.
              >
              >Robert Downs - Houston
              >wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
              >MVPA 9480


            • jerry Herrera
              good to know thanks. ________________________________ From: wa5cab@cs.com To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 25, 2013
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                good to know thanks.

                From: "wa5cab@..." <wa5cab@...>
                To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 11:10 PM
                Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Timkin bearing recess
                 
                The term used with tapered roller bearings is "Class" rather than "Grade".  But the connotation is the same.

                ANSI recognizes, from coarse to fine, or from not so good to much better, Classes 4, 2, 3, 0 and 00.  Timken currently shows 3, 0, 00 and 000 which they actually call C, B, A and AA.  Grossly oversimplifying the ANSI tables, for tapered roller bearings up to and including 12" diameter, the radial runout limits (which happen to be the main thing that we would be concerned with) versus class are:

                4   .0020"
                2   .0015"
                3   .0003"
                0   .00015"
                00 .000075"

                Note that either 4 or 2 would be OK for light car wheel bearings so I would assume that at least non-Timken bearings bought from an auto parts chain store would be one of those.

                Go to

                http://www.timken.com/en-us/solutions/machinetools/Pages/BearingPrecisionLevels.aspx

                for the only chart I've been able to locate on the Timken site showing precision levels and what the various ones are suitable for.  I have no idea how this chart compares to what would have been available back in 1935 or so when Atlas first offered lathes with Timken bearings.

                This chart lists Class C or 3 as suitable for conventional lathes and milling machines.

                I have not been able to confirm so far that Timken ships nothing today worse than Class 3.  I have a contact that I might be able to get an answer from in a few days.

                If you really want the ANSI/ABEC (for radial ball bearings and some other types) and ANSI/ABMA (for tapered roller bearings) standards they will cost you about $100.00 for a download.

                Robert D.

                In a message dated 07/24/2013 17:32:19 PM Central Daylight Time, jerster1959@... writes:
                On the subject of the bearing grades. As im looking for bearings I have noticed some bearings have #3 next to them. Is this the grade? I have found bearings but I heard that a example TIMKIN 16150 could also be a bearing for a car. Is there another way to make sure I purchase a bearing for a machine and not a car.


                ------------------------------
                On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 4:58 PM PDT wa5cab@... wrote:

                >Rowe &Co., INC, Johnsonburg, NJ, sold me a set of spindle bearings (two
                >cups &two cones) for $132.05 total.  I did some checking and they are genuine
                >Timken, actually shipped out of the plant in TN.  However, I have not used
                >them yet as after I bought them, I got into some discussions about tapered
                >roller bearing grades.  And haven't yet been able to determine what grade
                >these are.
                >
                >On another subject, as you have the original bearings with the dates out,
                >we need to save that information.  If you will send me the model number (I
                >presume probably 101.07403) and the serial number I'll put the informaition
                >into the database.  We have nearly 300  entries but 95% either have no dates,
                >no serial numbers, or both.  And some of the dates that are there are either
                >suspect or obviously wrong.
                >
                >Robert Downs - Houston
                >wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
                >MVPA 9480


                Robert & Susan Downs - Houston
                wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
                MVPA 9480
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