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Re: [atlas_craftsman] what year did atlas stop using babbitt bearings on the ...

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  • wa5cab
    Sometime between the end of 1945 and when the 1948 catalogs were printed. Babbit bearing 10 and 12 are in all of the known to me 1945 catalogs (both Atlas
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 4, 2013
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      Sometime between the end of 1945 and when the 1948 catalogs were printed.  Babbit bearing 10" and 12" are in all of the known to me 1945 catalogs (both Atlas and Sears).  They are not in the 1948 catalogs.  I know of no available 1946 or 1947 Atlas catalogs.  Sears apparently did not print Power Tool catalogs those two years.  And the Sears Big Books (general catalogs) have no lathes shown except for the AA 6".  So there is a hole in the record.

      Robert  Downs - Houston
      wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
      MVPA 9480
    • Doc
      Robert my 1957 sears power tool catalog shows /describes the 6 in crftsmn lathe as having bronze bearings .....when i bought a used 6 in from atlas
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 7, 2013
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        Robert
             my 1957 sears power tool catalog shows /describes  the 6 in crftsmn lathe  as having bronze bearings .....when i bought  a  used 6 in  from atlas  supply  in  louisville ,in 1958, he  said it was  originally  sold  the  previous  year & it IS  bronze  bearing  .....something  sticks in  my  mind  that  in 1978 , they were  timpken ....just  NOT  sure
         best  wishes
        doc
        -----Original Message-----
        From: wa5cab <wa5cab@...>
        To: atlas_craftsman <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thu, Jul 4, 2013 6:38 pm
        Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] what year did atlas stop using babbitt bearings on the ...

         
        Sometime between the end of 1945 and when the 1948 catalogs were printed.  Babbit bearing 10" and 12" are in all of the known to me 1945 catalogs (both Atlas and Sears).  They are not in the 1948 catalogs.  I know of no available 1946 or 1947 Atlas catalogs.  Sears apparently did not print Power Tool catalogs those two years.  And the Sears Big Books (general catalogs) have no lathes shown except for the AA 6".  So there is a hole in the record.

        Robert  Downs - Houston
        wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
        MVPA 9480
      • wa5cab
        Doc, That s a different subject from the Subject but what you wrote generally agrees with the timelines that I have on the bronze sleeve bearings in the
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 7, 2013
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          Doc,

          That's a different subject from the Subject but what you wrote generally agrees with the timelines that I have on the bronze sleeve bearings in the Craftsman marked 6" machines.  Atlas built and Sears sold the 101.07301 with bronze sleeve bearings from 1938 (catalog year) until 1957.  The last year that the 101.07301 appears in a Power Tools catalog is 1957.  The first year that the Timken bearing 101.21400 appears in a catalog was Fall 1957 Big Book.  There was no 1958 Power Tools catalog.  So the one that you bought used in 1958, if it was sold the previous year, would be one of the last ones built.  But don't forget that catalog years don't necessarily match calendar years.  The Spring 1957 Big Book, for example, would have been on the street before Christmas 1956. 

          This is another different subject from the Subject but as to your buying a sleeve bearing 6" lathe from an Atlas dealer, it was used.  So could have been a Craftsman.  Do you for sure recall which badge it carried?  The Atlas 618 Timken bearing lathe dates from at least as early as 1937.  I have half a dozen or so Atlas catalogs from the early period.  All of them that show a 6" show it with Timken bearings.  And there isn't any note in the text that says it's also available with sleeve bearings (or split babbit bearings for that matter).

          However, none of that changes my answer to the Subject question, which was about babbit bearing lathes, which means 10" and 12".  Until someone comes up with proof of one sold in 1946 I am calling their last year 1945.

          In a message dated 07/07/2013 20:01:42 PM Central Daylight Time, n8as1@... writes:
          Robert

               my 1957 sears power tool catalog shows /describes  the 6 in crftsmn lathe  as having bronze bearings .....when i bought  a  used 6 in  from atlas  supply  in  louisville ,in 1958, he  said it was  originally  sold  the  previous  year &it IS  bronze  bearing  .....something  sticks in  my  mind  that  in 1978 , they were  timpken ....just  NOT  sure
          best  wishes
          doc


          -----Original Message-----
          From: wa5cab <wa5cab@...>
          To: atlas_craftsman <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thu, Jul 4, 2013 6:38 pm
          Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] what year did atlas stop using babbitt bearings on the ...

           
          Sometime between the end of 1945 and when the 1948 catalogs were printed.  Babbit bearing 10" and 12" are in all of the known to me 1945 catalogs (both Atlas and Sears).  They are not in the 1948 catalogs.  I know of no available 1946 or 1947 Atlas catalogs.  Sears apparently did not print Power Tool catalogs those two years.  And the Sears Big Books (general catalogs) have no lathes shown except for the AA 6".  So there is a hole in the record.

          Robert  Downs - Houston
          wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
          MVPA 9480








          Robert & Susan Downs - Houston
          wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
          MVPA 9480
        • Doc
          Robert two things i did not do ....i didnt read carefully enuf.....& the model numbers are not in readily recalled memory bank also i neglected to
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 8, 2013
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            Robert
               two things  i did not  do ....i didnt  read carefully  enuf.....& the model numbers  are not in readily  recalled memory  bank    
              also  i neglected to state  that  the lathe  i bought in 1958  WAS a crftsmn 6x18 which pretty  much  made my  whole  post  redundant .since you already  had that 1957  date ........i still have it , tooled w/ near  every  accressory xcept a  taper  attach..,covered  w/ a blanket  w/ a  greasy  worn  atlas  manual that was  the only instructor i had  for a few years  ...i well remember  having  spent  the  rent  money  for  it ..$100...( a  miserable  basement  3room  conversion  w/ literally  roaches  dropping  from  the ceiling  ...i remember  my  new wife being  shocked as i  scraped  one off the  pork chop  that  came  from the open  broiler.....that  chop was  too high  on the  hog & too infrequent to be pitched ..
             best  wishes
            doc
             PS ..85 years  ago ,.my  foliks started in a  one room furnished  apartment  w/ a  murphy   bed that  folded out  from the  wall ....we  started in  a crummy basement we  furnished in  early  attic & from driving one block ahead of  the  trash  truck .....my kids started in a  modern  3 bedroom ranch, a cape cod , & a 4 bedroom on 41/2 acres  that  i & my  oldest  son  built  for  them ....my  oldest  g/son  (28),last  year bought a quarter million dollar home  w/ his  100 thou + salary ...............the  story is .probably  not  much different  form many , many  others ....but ,.."aint America  grand " ?????
            -----Original Message-----
            From: wa5cab <wa5cab@...>
            To: atlas_craftsman <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sun, Jul 7, 2013 10:14 pm
            Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] what year did atlas stop using babbitt bearings on the ...

             
            Doc,

            That's a different subject from the Subject but what you wrote generally agrees with the timelines that I have on the bronze sleeve bearings in the Craftsman marked 6" machines.  Atlas built and Sears sold the 101.07301 with bronze sleeve bearings from 1938 (catalog year) until 1957.  The last year that the 101.07301 appears in a Power Tools catalog is 1957.  The first year that the Timken bearing 101.21400 appears in a catalog was Fall 1957 Big Book.  There was no 1958 Power Tools catalog.  So the one that you bought used in 1958, if it was sold the previous year, would be one of the last ones built.  But don't forget that catalog years don't necessarily match calendar years.  The Spring 1957 Big Book, for example, would have been on the street before Christmas 1956. 

            This is another different subject from the Subject but as to your buying a sleeve bearing 6" lathe from an Atlas dealer, it was used.  So could have been a Craftsman.  Do you for sure recall which badge it carried?  The Atlas 618 Timken bearing lathe dates from at least as early as 1937.  I have half a dozen or so Atlas catalogs from the early period.  All of them that show a 6" show it with Timken bearings.  And there isn't any note in the text that says it's also available with sleeve bearings (or split babbit bearings for that matter).

            However, none of that changes my answer to the Subject question, which was about babbit bearing lathes, which means 10" and 12".  Until someone comes up with proof of one sold in 1946 I am calling their last year 1945.

            In a message dated 07/07/2013 20:01:42 PM Central Daylight Time, n8as1@... writes:
            Robert

                 my 1957 sears power tool catalog shows /describes  the 6 in crftsmn lathe  as having bronze bearings .....when i bought  a  used 6 in  from atlas  supply  in  louisville ,in 1958, he  said it was  originally  sold  the  previous  year &it IS  bronze  bearing  .....something  sticks in  my  mind  that  in 1978 , they were  timpken ....just  NOT  sure
            best  wishes
            doc


            -----Original Message-----
            From: wa5cab <wa5cab@...>
            To: atlas_craftsman <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thu, Jul 4, 2013 6:38 pm
            Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] what year did atlas stop using babbitt bearings on the ...

             
            Sometime between the end of 1945 and when the 1948 catalogs were printed.  Babbit bearing 10" and 12" are in all of the known to me 1945 catalogs (both Atlas and Sears).  They are not in the 1948 catalogs.  I know of no available 1946 or 1947 Atlas catalogs.  Sears apparently did not print Power Tool catalogs those two years.  And the Sears Big Books (general catalogs) have no lathes shown except for the AA 6".  So there is a hole in the record.

            Robert  Downs - Houston
            wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
            MVPA 9480








            Robert & Susan Downs - Houston
            wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
            MVPA 9480
          • Dave Pinella
            Is this thing worth looking at? http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/tls/3942463231.html Dave P D
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 17, 2013
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              Is this thing worth looking at?



              Dave P

              D
            • dolphin_79605
              I caught myself wondering the same thing about this one, Mick
              Message 6 of 10 , Jul 17, 2013
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                I caught myself wondering the same thing about this one, Mick

                http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vernon-No-0-milling-machine-with-vertical-mill-attachment-NO-RESERVE-/281133202394?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4174d83bda

                --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, Dave Pinella <dpinella@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Is this thing worth looking at?
                >
                > http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/tls/3942463231.html
                >
                >
                > Dave P
                >
                > D
                >
              • James Rice
                For $500, I d take a chance on it. Tony has a little bit of info on Fray http://www.lathes.co.uk/fray/ so it s an orphan. If it wasn t almost 1K miles from
                Message 7 of 10 , Jul 17, 2013
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                  For $500, I'd take a chance on it.  Tony has a little bit of info on Fray http://www.lathes.co.uk/fray/ so it's an orphan.  If it wasn't almost 1K miles from me, I'd buy it just for the novelty.  It looks like a fairly well built machine.  But I'm a sucker for orphans and basket cases.

                  James, Sherman, Texas


                  On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Dave Pinella <dpinella@...> wrote:
                   


                  Is this thing worth looking at?



                  Dave P

                  D


                • Guenther Paul
                  I am in Sw Michigan. I looked a a fray mill in my area the one with the 2 tables. All i can say make sure all the parts are with the machine, The capacity like
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jul 17, 2013
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                    I am in Sw Michigan. I looked a a fray mill in my area the one with the 2 tables. All i can say make sure all the parts are with the machine, The capacity like size of end mill and travel is very limited more-so then the rungfu's I chose not to buy it. The price range was about the same as the ones being shown
                     
                    GP
                    From: dolphin_79605 <dolphin_79605@...>
                    To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 7:23 PM
                    Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Fray mill
                     
                    I caught myself wondering the same thing about this one, Mick

                    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vernon-No-0-milling-machine-with-vertical-mill-attachment-NO-RESERVE-/281133202394?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4174d83bda

                    --- In mailto:atlas_craftsman%40yahoogroups.com, Dave Pinella <dpinella@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Is this thing worth looking at?
                    >
                    > http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/tls/3942463231.html
                    >
                    >
                    > Dave P
                    >
                    > D
                    >

                     
                  • anthrhodes
                    Dave, The Vernon # 0, which was mentioned immediately after your post, is an interesting small vertical-horizontal mill. It has a universal vertical head but
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jul 18, 2013
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                      Dave,
                       
                      The Vernon # 0, which was mentioned immediately after your post, is an interesting small vertical-horizontal mill. It has a universal vertical head but without a quill the universal functions are pretty much useless. Nevertheless, a nice mill.
                       
                      The Fray 20RH, on the other hand, while probably more limited in capacities, is much more interesting. The work table has the usual X-Y-Z motions plus it appears that the table rotates around the Z-axis for universal feed which is useful when in horizontal mode. Then, with the vertical head mounted on its own X-Y table which can also be rotated around the vertical axis, and the head itself capable of rotation around the nominal Y-axis plus having quill feed, the mill comes close to the universal applications of a small Deckel mill. More so in some respects, not quite as much in others.
                       
                      All I know about it is what I see in the Craigs List listing and a quick glance at Tony Griffiths' site, but, in the right circumstances, I'd find it worth acquiring.
                       
                      Anthony
                      Berkeley, Calif.
                      **************************************************
                      In a message dated Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:17 pm (PDT), Dave Pinella writes:
                      Is this thing worth looking at?

                      http://cincinnati. craigslist. org/tls/39424632 31.html
                    • Guenther Paul
                      There is a fray like this one in my area for sale.  it any one interested i hook you up. I am in SW michigan GP ________________________________ From:
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jul 18, 2013
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                        There is a fray like this one in my area for sale.  it any one interested i hook you up. I am in SW michigan
                         
                        GP
                        From: "anthrhodes@..." <anthrhodes@...>
                        To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2013 12:04 PM
                        Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Fray mill
                         
                        Dave,
                         
                        The Vernon # 0, which was mentioned immediately after your post, is an interesting small vertical-horizontal mill. It has a universal vertical head but without a quill the universal functions are pretty much useless. Nevertheless, a nice mill.
                         
                        The Fray 20RH, on the other hand, while probably more limited in capacities, is much more interesting. The work table has the usual X-Y-Z motions plus it appears that the table rotates around the Z-axis for universal feed which is useful when in horizontal mode. Then, with the vertical head mounted on its own X-Y table which can also be rotated around the vertical axis, and the head itself capable of rotation around the nominal Y-axis plus having quill feed, the mill comes close to the universal applications of a small Deckel mill. More so in some respects, not quite as much in others.
                         
                        All I know about it is what I see in the Craigs List listing and a quick glance at Tony Griffiths' site, but, in the right circumstances, I'd find it worth acquiring.
                         
                        Anthony
                        Berkeley, Calif.
                        **************************************************
                        In a message dated Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:17 pm (PDT), Dave Pinella writes:
                        Is this thing worth looking at?

                        http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/tls/3942463231.html
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