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Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Newbe looking for any info on a 6x18

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  • jtiers
    You may want the countershaft anyway...... the slow speed isn t the issue as much as having some power at low speeds. Low speed you get with a motor control.
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 18, 2013
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      You may want the countershaft anyway...... the slow speed isn't the issue
      as much as having some power at low speeds.

      Low speed you get with a motor control. *Power* at low speed you do NOT get
      that way. Power is proportional to speed x torque. When you reduce speed
      with a motor control you do not get any more torque (and you may lose some)
      but speed is reduced, so power is also.

      The only ways to get power at low speeds is either to use a hugely over-size
      motor and deal with the reduction in power at low speed, OR to keep the
      motor speed up and get the low speed from pulleys.

      Since you usually want slower speed to deal with larger diameter workpieces,
      the lack of power may doom you to taking only tiny thread-like chips as the
      workpiece gets bigger. That will get old very fast, even on a small lathe
      that isn't suited to hogging off material to begin with.

      IMO, $400 is getting towards high for a 618, but that depends on
      availability of machines in your area.

      JT

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "curtwuollet" <wideopen1@...>
      To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2013 11:41 PM
      Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Newbe looking for any info on a 6x18


      >I talked to the guy today and he said he'd take $400 for it. He's throwing
      >in a PhaseII AXA QCTP with it that's never been installed.
      > (probably because that's too big for a 6x lathe). And it's more dirty than
      > rusty. I'm thinking about it. I have a DC treadmill motor and a controller
      > that should overcome the lack of a countershaft to get the low speeds for
      > threading, They don't come up locally very often and it turns out I know
      > this guy, used to work at the foundry with me.
      > It's worth a look at least.
      >
      > Regards
    • wa5cab
      OK. With those basic accessories and what looked like good finish condition, if I were looking for one, I d likely go for it. Robert D. In a message dated
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 18, 2013
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        OK.  With those basic accessories and what looked like good finish condition, if I were looking for one, I'd likely go for it.

        Robert D.

        In a message dated 03/18/2013 03:42:40 AM Central Daylight Time, wideopen1@... writes:
        Haven't seen the tool post yet, but I  suppose it's whatever came in the
        box.
        I was thinking the same way, it could make this a reasonably good deal.
        He sent more pictures and everything seems to be there 3 and 4 jaw,
        faceplate, 9 change gears, tailstock chuck, dogs, centers and some tools.
        No visible wear on the gears. No oil visible,  I don't think is has  been
        spun in years.  Worth a 70 mile drive


        Regards

        cww

        wa5cab@... wrote:
        >
        >
        >CWW,
        >
        >That's getting closer to reasonable.  Are there any tool holders with
        >the Phase II TP?  If it is truly unused, you should be able to sell it
        >for 80% of list on eBay.  And being a small part, shipping won't be
        >any trouble.
        >
        >Robert D.
        >
        >In a message dated 03/17/2013 23:41:51 PM Central Daylight Time,
        >wideopen1@... writes:
        >>I talked to the guy today and he said he'd take $400 for it. He's
        >>throwing in a PhaseII AXA QCTP with it that's never been installed.
        >>(probably because that's too big for a 6x lathe). And it's more dirty
        >>than rusty. I'm thinking about it. I have a DC treadmill motor and a
        >>controller that should overcome the lack of a countershaft to get the
        >>low speeds for threading, They don't come up locally very often and
        >>it turns out I know this guy, used to work at the foundry with me.
        >>It's worth a look at least.
        >>
        >>Regards
        >>
        >>cww
        >>
        >>--- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, Curt Wuollet <wideopen1@...>
        >>wrote:
        >>>
        >>>That's about what I was thinking. But it's $500 less than a new
        >>import 9x20.
        >>>The scary part is that it would probably take more work to get the
        >>new one
        >>>really useful. We'll keep watching. I'm sure somebody will jump on
        >>that one.
        >>>
        >>>Regards
        >>>
        >>>cww
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>wa5cab@... wrote:
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>Curt,
        >>>>
        >>>>This is probably a Craftsman 101.07301, made by Atlas and sold by
        >>>>Sears from about 1939 to 1956.  Over the same time period, Atlas made
        >>>>and sold the Model 618.  The only significant difference between the
        >>>>two were the spindle and spindle bearings.  The 618 has Timken tapered
        >>>>roller bearings and the 07301 has split bronze sleeve bearings.
        >>>>AFAIK, all of the remaining specs are the same and accessories and
        >>>>many parts will interchange.
        >>>>
        >>>>In my opinion, $520 for a 101.07301 without countershaft and with only
        >>>>limited tooling/accessories is too high.  For reference, the last year
        >>>>that it was sold new (1956), the 101.07301 included the lathe with
        >>>>power driven carriage, compound, tool post, tailstock and countershaft
        >>>>assembly.  Plus a 4" face plate, one 1/2" lathe dog, full set of 9
        >>>>change gears, one 1/4" cutter, 1MT and 2MT centers,  two wrenches,
        >>>>Allen wrench, motor belt and pulley, and instruction/parts manual.
        >>>>Did not include the Manual of Lathe Operations, any chucks or any
        >>>>accessories.  And sold for $160.00.
        >>>>
        >>>>Generally speaking, selling price today for one of the lathes would be
        >>>>about double the 1960 price (or the original price adjusted to 1960).
        >>>>And the price for accessories between 4X and 8X the 1960 price.
        >>>>That's just a rough order of magnitude and ignores auction feeding
        >>frenzy.
        >>>>
        >>>>Robert Downs - Houston
        >>>>wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
        >>>>MVPA 9480
        >>>>
        >>>>In a message dated 03/15/2013 19:16:41 PM Central Daylight Time,
        >>>>wideopen1@... writes:
        >>>>>Hi I'm Curt Wuollet
        >>>>>
        >>>>>I'm needing a longer lathe and I'm looking at a Craftsman for $520
        >>>>>It's got a strange model number though 101.07371. Definitely an
        >>>>>Atlas, but nothing comes up on google for that model. The usual
        >>>>>sources come up blank too. It's got some tooling but it looks pretty
        >>>>>rusty and I'm wondering if I should pass. No countershaft in the
        >>picture.
        >>>>>
        >>>>>Regards
        >>>>>
        >>>>>cww
        >>>>


      • Curt Wuollet
        It would be nice and I ll see if I can happen upon one if the lathe looks good, But the DC motor and controller I ve got should have enough snus with the belt
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 18, 2013
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          It would be nice and I'll see if I can happen upon one if the lathe
          looks good,
          But the DC motor and controller I've got should have enough snus with the
          belt and back gear reduction, It was running my full size mill drill. Or a
          planetary reducer might be easier to find, The Treadmill motors do produce
          their rated HP at high RPM, but they also torque well at low speeds if you
          can supply enough current. It'll be interesting finding out anyway:^)
          Selling the QCTP will offset the price some.

          Regards

          cww
          jerdal@... wrote:
          > You may want the countershaft anyway...... the slow speed isn't the issue
          > as much as having some power at low speeds.
          >
          > Low speed you get with a motor control. *Power* at low speed you do NOT get
          > that way. Power is proportional to speed x torque. When you reduce speed
          > with a motor control you do not get any more torque (and you may lose some)
          > but speed is reduced, so power is also.
          >
          > The only ways to get power at low speeds is either to use a hugely over-size
          > motor and deal with the reduction in power at low speed, OR to keep the
          > motor speed up and get the low speed from pulleys.
          >
          > Since you usually want slower speed to deal with larger diameter workpieces,
          > the lack of power may doom you to taking only tiny thread-like chips as the
          > workpiece gets bigger. That will get old very fast, even on a small lathe
          > that isn't suited to hogging off material to begin with.
          >
          > IMO, $400 is getting towards high for a 618, but that depends on
          > availability of machines in your area.
          >
          > JT
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "curtwuollet" <wideopen1@...>
          > To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2013 11:41 PM
          > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Newbe looking for any info on a 6x18
          >
          >
          >
          >> I talked to the guy today and he said he'd take $400 for it. He's throwing
          >> in a PhaseII AXA QCTP with it that's never been installed.
          >> (probably because that's too big for a 6x lathe). And it's more dirty than
          >> rusty. I'm thinking about it. I have a DC treadmill motor and a controller
          >> that should overcome the lack of a countershaft to get the low speeds for
          >> threading, They don't come up locally very often and it turns out I know
          >> this guy, used to work at the foundry with me.
          >> It's worth a look at least.
          >>
          >> Regards
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
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          >
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          >
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          > Please submit things you think will be useful to Jon Elson at mailto://elson@...! Groups Links
          >
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          >
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          >
        • Curt Wuollet
          Condition is everything, it s pretty easy to spend a couple hundred on a needy one. $200 is too much for one that s clapped out and a lot of these are pretty
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 18, 2013
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            Condition is everything, it's pretty easy to spend a couple hundred
            on a needy one. $200 is too much for one that's clapped out and
            a lot of these are pretty beat. From the pics, this one looks like it's
            seen low hours and hasn't been used as an anvil or lawn ornament.
            I've seen a couple that were pretty much beat to death.

            Regards

            cww

            wa5cab@... wrote:
            >
            >
            > OK. With those basic accessories and what looked like good finish
            > condition, if I were looking for one, I'd likely go for it.
            >
            > Robert D.
            >
            > In a message dated 03/18/2013 03:42:40 AM Central Daylight Time,
            > wideopen1@... writes:
            >> Haven't seen the tool post yet, but I suppose it's whatever came in the
            >> box.
            >> I was thinking the same way, it could make this a reasonably good deal.
            >> He sent more pictures and everything seems to be there 3 and 4 jaw,
            >> faceplate, 9 change gears, tailstock chuck, dogs, centers and some tools.
            >> No visible wear on the gears. No oil visible, I don't think is has been
            >> spun in years. Worth a 70 mile drive
            >>
            >>
            >> Regards
            >>
            >> cww
            >>
            >> wa5cab@... wrote:
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >CWW,
            >> >
            >> >That's getting closer to reasonable. Are there any tool holders with
            >> >the Phase II TP? If it is truly unused, you should be able to sell it
            >> >for 80% of list on eBay. And being a small part, shipping won't be
            >> >any trouble.
            >> >
            >> >Robert D.
            >> >
            >> >In a message dated 03/17/2013 23:41:51 PM Central Daylight Time,
            >> >wideopen1@... writes:
            >> >>I talked to the guy today and he said he'd take $400 for it. He's
            >> >>throwing in a PhaseII AXA QCTP with it that's never been installed.
            >> >>(probably because that's too big for a 6x lathe). And it's more dirty
            >> >>than rusty. I'm thinking about it. I have a DC treadmill motor and a
            >> >>controller that should overcome the lack of a countershaft to get the
            >> >>low speeds for threading, They don't come up locally very often and
            >> >>it turns out I know this guy, used to work at the foundry with me.
            >> >>It's worth a look at least.
            >> >>
            >> >>Regards
            >> >>
            >> >>cww
            >> >>
            >> >>--- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, Curt Wuollet <wideopen1@...>
            >> >>wrote:
            >> >>>
            >> >>>That's about what I was thinking. But it's $500 less than a new
            >> >>import 9x20.
            >> >>>The scary part is that it would probably take more work to get the
            >> >>new one
            >> >>>really useful. We'll keep watching. I'm sure somebody will jump on
            >> >>that one.
            >> >>>
            >> >>>Regards
            >> >>>
            >> >>>cww
            >> >>>
            >> >>>
            >> >>>
            >> >>>
            >> >>>wa5cab@... wrote:
            >> >>>>
            >> >>>>
            >> >>>>Curt,
            >> >>>>
            >> >>>>This is probably a Craftsman 101.07301, made by Atlas and sold by
            >> >>>>Sears from about 1939 to 1956. Over the same time period, Atlas made
            >> >>>>and sold the Model 618. The only significant difference between the
            >> >>>>two were the spindle and spindle bearings. The 618 has Timken
            >> tapered
            >> >>>>roller bearings and the 07301 has split bronze sleeve bearings.
            >> >>>>AFAIK, all of the remaining specs are the same and accessories and
            >> >>>>many parts will interchange.
            >> >>>>
            >> >>>>In my opinion, $520 for a 101.07301 without countershaft and with
            >> only
            >> >>>>limited tooling/accessories is too high. For reference, the last
            >> year
            >> >>>>that it was sold new (1956), the 101.07301 included the lathe with
            >> >>>>power driven carriage, compound, tool post, tailstock and
            >> countershaft
            >> >>>>assembly. Plus a 4" face plate, one 1/2" lathe dog, full set of 9
            >> >>>>change gears, one 1/4" cutter, 1MT and 2MT centers, two wrenches,
            >> >>>>Allen wrench, motor belt and pulley, and instruction/parts manual.
            >> >>>>Did not include the Manual of Lathe Operations, any chucks or any
            >> >>>>accessories. And sold for $160.00.
            >> >>>>
            >> >>>>Generally speaking, selling price today for one of the lathes
            >> would be
            >> >>>>about double the 1960 price (or the original price adjusted to
            >> 1960).
            >> >>>>And the price for accessories between 4X and 8X the 1960 price.
            >> >>>>That's just a rough order of magnitude and ignores auction feeding
            >> >>frenzy.
            >> >>>>
            >> >>>>Robert Downs - Houston
            >> >>>>wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
            >> >>>>MVPA 9480
            >> >>>>
            >> >>>>In a message dated 03/15/2013 19:16:41 PM Central Daylight Time,
            >> >>>>wideopen1@... writes:
            >> >>>>>Hi I'm Curt Wuollet
            >> >>>>>
            >> >>>>>I'm needing a longer lathe and I'm looking at a Craftsman for $520
            >> >>>>>It's got a strange model number though 101.07371. Definitely an
            >> >>>>>Atlas, but nothing comes up on google for that model. The usual
            >> >>>>>sources come up blank too. It's got some tooling but it looks pretty
            >> >>>>>rusty and I'm wondering if I should pass. No countershaft in the
            >> >>picture.
            >> >>>>>
            >> >>>>>Regards
            >> >>>>>
            >> >>>>>cww
            >> >>>>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Curt Wuollet
            Craftsman 618 followed me home today. I went to look at it and the flash photos made it look a lot worse than it was. In fact, it s got the original paint and
            Message 5 of 11 , Mar 28, 2013
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              Craftsman 618 followed me home today. I went to look at it and the flash
              photos made it look a lot worse than it was. In fact, it's got the
              original paint and doesn't need painting, the places that are bare would
              be in a week anyway. The spindle is tight and the carriage is smooth
              the whole way. The ways have no dings and the leadscrew looks new. The
              half nuts engage deeply and everything feels right. Nothing seems to
              have more than "steel wool and oil" rust anyplace and the fact that it
              has some tells me it hasn't been messed with. So I loaded it up. Have
              to make a proper bench, oil it up and see. I do need a spinner for the
              cross slide handle and the little knob for the gear door, but that's
              about it.

              Regards

              cww

              Curt Wuollet wrote:
              > Condition is everything, it's pretty easy to spend a couple hundred
              > on a needy one. $200 is too much for one that's clapped out and
              > a lot of these are pretty beat. From the pics, this one looks like it's
              > seen low hours and hasn't been used as an anvil or lawn ornament.
              > I've seen a couple that were pretty much beat to death.
              >
              > Regards
              >
              > cww
              >
              > wa5cab@... wrote:
              >
              >> OK. With those basic accessories and what looked like good finish
              >> condition, if I were looking for one, I'd likely go for it.
              >>
              >> Robert D.
              >>
              >> In a message dated 03/18/2013 03:42:40 AM Central Daylight Time,
              >> wideopen1@... writes:
              >>
              >>> Haven't seen the tool post yet, but I suppose it's whatever came in the
              >>> box.
              >>> I was thinking the same way, it could make this a reasonably good deal.
              >>> He sent more pictures and everything seems to be there 3 and 4 jaw,
              >>> faceplate, 9 change gears, tailstock chuck, dogs, centers and some tools.
              >>> No visible wear on the gears. No oil visible, I don't think is has been
              >>> spun in years. Worth a 70 mile drive
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> Regards
              >>>
              >>> cww
              >>>
              >>> wa5cab@... wrote:
              >>>
              >>>> CWW,
              >>>>
              >>>> That's getting closer to reasonable. Are there any tool holders with
              >>>> the Phase II TP? If it is truly unused, you should be able to sell it
              >>>> for 80% of list on eBay. And being a small part, shipping won't be
              >>>> any trouble.
              >>>>
              >>>> Robert D.
              >>>>
              >>>> In a message dated 03/17/2013 23:41:51 PM Central Daylight Time,
              >>>> wideopen1@... writes:
              >>>>
              >>>>> I talked to the guy today and he said he'd take $400 for it. He's
              >>>>> throwing in a PhaseII AXA QCTP with it that's never been installed.
              >>>>> (probably because that's too big for a 6x lathe). And it's more dirty
              >>>>> than rusty. I'm thinking about it. I have a DC treadmill motor and a
              >>>>> controller that should overcome the lack of a countershaft to get the
              >>>>> low speeds for threading, They don't come up locally very often and
              >>>>> it turns out I know this guy, used to work at the foundry with me.
              >>>>> It's worth a look at least.
              >>>>>
              >>>>> Regards
              >>>>>
              >>>>> cww
              >>>>>
              >>>>> --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, Curt Wuollet <wideopen1@...>
              >>>>> wrote:
              >>>>>
              >>>>>> That's about what I was thinking. But it's $500 less than a new
              >>>>>>
              >>>>> import 9x20.
              >>>>>
              >>>>>> The scary part is that it would probably take more work to get the
              >>>>>>
              >>>>> new one
              >>>>>
              >>>>>> really useful. We'll keep watching. I'm sure somebody will jump on
              >>>>>>
              >>>>> that one.
              >>>>>
              >>>>>> Regards
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>> cww
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>> wa5cab@... wrote:
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>>> Curt,
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> This is probably a Craftsman 101.07301, made by Atlas and sold by
              >>>>>>> Sears from about 1939 to 1956. Over the same time period, Atlas made
              >>>>>>> and sold the Model 618. The only significant difference between the
              >>>>>>> two were the spindle and spindle bearings. The 618 has Timken
              >>>>>>>
              >>> tapered
              >>>
              >>>>>>> roller bearings and the 07301 has split bronze sleeve bearings.
              >>>>>>> AFAIK, all of the remaining specs are the same and accessories and
              >>>>>>> many parts will interchange.
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> In my opinion, $520 for a 101.07301 without countershaft and with
              >>>>>>>
              >>> only
              >>>
              >>>>>>> limited tooling/accessories is too high. For reference, the last
              >>>>>>>
              >>> year
              >>>
              >>>>>>> that it was sold new (1956), the 101.07301 included the lathe with
              >>>>>>> power driven carriage, compound, tool post, tailstock and
              >>>>>>>
              >>> countershaft
              >>>
              >>>>>>> assembly. Plus a 4" face plate, one 1/2" lathe dog, full set of 9
              >>>>>>> change gears, one 1/4" cutter, 1MT and 2MT centers, two wrenches,
              >>>>>>> Allen wrench, motor belt and pulley, and instruction/parts manual.
              >>>>>>> Did not include the Manual of Lathe Operations, any chucks or any
              >>>>>>> accessories. And sold for $160.00.
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> Generally speaking, selling price today for one of the lathes
              >>>>>>>
              >>> would be
              >>>
              >>>>>>> about double the 1960 price (or the original price adjusted to
              >>>>>>>
              >>> 1960).
              >>>
              >>>>>>> And the price for accessories between 4X and 8X the 1960 price.
              >>>>>>> That's just a rough order of magnitude and ignores auction feeding
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>> frenzy.
              >>>>>
              >>>>>>> Robert Downs - Houston
              >>>>>>> wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
              >>>>>>> MVPA 9480
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> In a message dated 03/15/2013 19:16:41 PM Central Daylight Time,
              >>>>>>> wideopen1@... writes:
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>>> Hi I'm Curt Wuollet
              >>>>>>>>
              >>>>>>>> I'm needing a longer lathe and I'm looking at a Craftsman for $520
              >>>>>>>> It's got a strange model number though 101.07371. Definitely an
              >>>>>>>> Atlas, but nothing comes up on google for that model. The usual
              >>>>>>>> sources come up blank too. It's got some tooling but it looks pretty
              >>>>>>>> rusty and I'm wondering if I should pass. No countershaft in the
              >>>>>>>>
              >>>>> picture.
              >>>>>
              >>>>>>>> Regards
              >>>>>>>>
              >>>>>>>> cww
              >>>>>>>>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
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              >
              > To see or edit your personal settings, view the photos, files or links http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/
              >
              > The Atlas-Craftsman Wiki is at http://pico-systems.com/cgi-bin/Atlas-wiki/Atlas.cgi
              > Please submit things you think will be useful to Jon Elson at mailto://elson@...! Groups Links
              >
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