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Re: [atlas_craftsman] Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw

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  • William Warne
    Robert,   I m attaching the manual.  Let me know if it doesn t come through.  I m also uploading some additional pictures which pretty much show the entire
    Message 1 of 23 , Feb 8, 2013
    Robert,
     
    I'm attaching the manual.  Let me know if it doesn't come through.  I'm also uploading some additional pictures which pretty much show the entire assembly (except for the blade raising pawl / ratchet / cam assembly which is difficult to photograph because it is mostly covered by the drive gear housing (I tried to use a bore inspection camera to no avail).  There is a nice fellow, Steve Wan, from China I believe, who is trying to duplicate the design in a slightly smaller format.  I think he might be joining this group if he is not a member already.  His problem has been duplicating the pawl / ratchet / cam assembly.  I think I can get the cam timing for him using a dial indicator and a cam timing protractor, but it's going to be necessary to make a dial indicator extension of around 6-7".  I can get to the cam if I remove the front gear cover which is easy enough since it's only held in place by two screws.  You asked about the number.  The Sears number is 101.22940.
     
    Bill

    --- On Thu, 2/7/13, wa5cab@... <wa5cab@...> wrote:

    From: wa5cab@... <wa5cab@...>
    Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
    To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
    Date: Thursday, February 7, 2013, 4:10 PM

     
    Bill,

    OK.  I see the gear photos. 

    Send the manual to me and I'll either put it into the Bandwaw folder in the group's Files section or put it on atlas_craftsman_projects if it won't fit here (that's one of the group's we use for additional file storage space).  Anyone who needs it can then get it from there.

    Robert D.

    In a message dated 02/07/2013 17:51:11 PM Central Standard Time, williamwarne@... writes:
    Robert,
     
    I just posted (I don't think it's up yet) two pictures of the drive gear backside, which is not shown in the manual and that's the view that shows the cam which operates the lifting pawls.  I'll take some more pictures tonight and try to get the numbers off of it.  There's a PDF manual on the net which I'm happy to forward to anyone who needs it.
     
    Bill

    --- On Thu, 2/7/13, wa5cab@... <wa5cab@...> wrote:


    From: wa5cab@... <wa5cab@...>
    Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Atlas-Clausing(Sears) Powered Hacksaw
    To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
    Date: Thursday, February 7, 2013, 3:43 PM

      Bill,

    I don't think that I've ever seen one of them other than maybe in catalogs.  But what's the model number?  And a photograph or three would be good.

    Robert Downs - Houston
    wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
    MVPA 9480

    In a message dated 02/07/2013 17:04:57 PM Central Standard Time, williamwarne@... writes:
    I have an Atlas-Clausing powered hacksaw that is an amazing little machine.  It's not fast, but it's pretty small and it does the job.  Does anyone in the group have experience with this machine?  I'm planning some "bolt-on" mods that can be reversed if someone wants to restore the machine on down the line.  And I've kept all the parts I've replaced (bolts, etc.)  One of the mods I'd like to do is to add a coolant nozzle and a drip pan.  I would also like to replace the Craftsman stand with a heavier mobile bench.

    Bill


  • Chris
    Guys, That file (manual) is already in the file section of this group. Atlas 4350. That hacksaw was originally made by Covel and then by Atlas. Buy power
    Message 2 of 23 , Feb 8, 2013
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      Guys,
      That file (manual) is already in the file section of this group. Atlas 4350. That hacksaw was originally made by Covel and then by Atlas.
      Buy power hacksaw blades if you want a straight cut. Hand hacksaw blades will work but won't last long and won't cut straight. The blades go on backwards ( teeth pointing towards the rear ) - it's a draw cut machine. The pawls lift the blade on the forward stroke.

      --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, William Warne wrote:
      >
      > Robert,
      >  
      > I just posted (I don't think it's up yet) two pictures of the drive gear backside, which is not shown in the manual and that's the view that shows the cam which operates the lifting pawls.  I'll take some more pictures tonight and try to get the numbers off of it.  There's a PDF manual on the net which I'm happy to forward to anyone who needs it.
      >  
      > Bill
      >
      > --- On Thu, 2/7/13, wa5cab@... wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: wa5cab@...
      > Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
      > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Thursday, February 7, 2013, 3:43 PM
      >
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      > Bill,
      >
      > I don't think that I've ever seen one of them other than maybe in catalogs.  But what's the model number?  And a photograph or three would be good.
      >
      > Robert Downs - Houston
      > wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
      > MVPA 9480
      >
      > In a message dated 02/07/2013 17:04:57 PM Central Standard Time, williamwarne@... writes:
      >
      > I have an Atlas-Clausing powered hacksaw that is an amazing little machine.  It's not fast, but it's pretty small and it does the job.  Does anyone in the group have experience with this machine?  I'm planning some "bolt-on" mods that can be reversed if someone wants to restore the machine on down the line.  And I've kept all the parts I've replaced (bolts, etc.)  One of the mods I'd like to do is to add a coolant nozzle and a drip pan.  I would also like to replace the Craftsman stand with a heavier mobile bench.
      >
      > Bill
      >
    • Chris
      Covel catalog with some ideas for a coolant setup poasted here; http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=4354
      Message 3 of 23 , Feb 8, 2013
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        Covel catalog with some ideas for a coolant setup poasted here;
        http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=4354

        --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" wrote:
        >
        > Guys,
        > That file (manual) is already in the file section of this group. Atlas 4350. That hacksaw was originally made by Covel and then by Atlas.
        > Buy power hacksaw blades if you want a straight cut. Hand hacksaw blades will work but won't last long and won't cut straight. The blades go on backwards ( teeth pointing towards the rear ) - it's a draw cut machine. The pawls lift the blade on the forward stroke.
        >
        > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, William Warne wrote:
        > >
        > > Robert,
        > >  
        > > I just posted (I don't think it's up yet) two pictures of the drive gear backside, which is not shown in the manual and that's the view that shows the cam which operates the lifting pawls.  I'll take some more pictures tonight and try to get the numbers off of it.  There's a PDF manual on the net which I'm happy to forward to anyone who needs it.
        > >  
        > > Bill
        > >
        > > --- On Thu, 2/7/13, wa5cab@ wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > From: wa5cab@
        > > Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
        > > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
        > > Date: Thursday, February 7, 2013, 3:43 PM
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >  
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Bill,
        > >
        > > I don't think that I've ever seen one of them other than maybe in catalogs.  But what's the model number?  And a photograph or three would be good.
        > >
        > > Robert Downs - Houston
        > > wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
        > > MVPA 9480
        > >
        > > In a message dated 02/07/2013 17:04:57 PM Central Standard Time, williamwarne@ writes:
        > >
        > > I have an Atlas-Clausing powered hacksaw that is an amazing little machine.  It's not fast, but it's pretty small and it does the job.  Does anyone in the group have experience with this machine?  I'm planning some "bolt-on" mods that can be reversed if someone wants to restore the machine on down the line.  And I've kept all the parts I've replaced (bolts, etc.)  One of the mods I'd like to do is to add a coolant nozzle and a drip pan.  I would also like to replace the Craftsman stand with a heavier mobile bench.
        > >
        > > Bill
        > >
        >
      • William Warne
        Chris,   Thanks so much for all the wonderful advice.  I did see the comment about the blades and I had intended to follow up on it.  I ve been trying to
        Message 4 of 23 , Feb 9, 2013
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          Chris,
           
          Thanks so much for all the wonderful advice.  I did see the comment about the blades and I had intended to follow up on it.  I've been trying to buy the best blades I can (bi-metal and cobalt), and I didn't know that power hacksaw blades were made that small.  I will do a search, but I have a feeling they may be hard to find.  One of the original pins was in bad shape, the other was replaced with a nail.  I have a whole bunch of stainless steel pins somewhere in the hovel that I call my "shop" and as soon as I find them I'll replace what I'm using now.  If that's not workable I know that HF sells roll pins in a multi-size kit and this is a good excuse to pick one up.  The PDF thing was my boof.  Robert asked me to send it to him and I did that by way of a reply instead of a separate email directly to him.  I'm pretty new at this group thing and I thought, incorrectly, that I could just do a reply.
           
          Thanks again, I need all the advice I can get!
           
          Bill

          --- On Sat, 2/9/13, Chris <chris_peterson@...> wrote:

          From: Chris <chris_peterson@...>
          Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
          To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, February 9, 2013, 5:42 AM

           
          Bob and Bill,
          I replied to your earlier messages but evidently you didn't see or read my comments. That PDF is already in the file section of this group and has been there since '07
          Bill, the hand hacksaw blade you currently have in that saw will not last nor will it cut straight. Search for and buy a power hacksaw blade. The nut and bolt arraignment will work but not as well as the original setup. That was roll pins that are slightly angled away from each other. BTW, the blade should be on the vise side of the blade mounts.
          HTH,
          Chris

          --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, wa5cab@... wrote:
          >
          > Bill,
          >
          > I actually meant send the PDF direct to me. The list owner only recently
          > set the list to allow attachments, mainly I think for the purpose of being
          > able to put up photos of short-time interest. Like to ask or answer a
          > question with. We had an issue shortly after the change where someone (me as it
          > happens) accidently sent a non-photo rather large file to the list instead of
          > to an individual as was intended. And instead of putting it in
          > Messages/Attachments as the option setting said would happen, the Yahoo server sent it
          > to all list members, which caused some problems. It hasn't happened again
          > but I think everyone would prefer it doesn't get another chance to happen
          > again. :-)
          >
          > As you had indicated that your saw was a Craftsman badged model, I was
          > surprised to see that the manual is an Atlas one, not Craftsman. I take it that
          > it isn't the manual that came with your saw. Anyway, it's a much better
          > than average quality scan. I'll make sure it isn't already there and if not,
          > put it in the List's Files section.
          >
          > Interesting that someone is trying to make some. But why is he trying to
          > make a smaller version? I would think there would be a fringe benefit in
          > having it made the same size. That would give owners of the original a spare
          > parts source, as I rather don't think Clausing carries parts for it. You
          > might mention that to him. Although he might want to confirm my assumption
          > first.
          >
          > Robert D.
          >
          > In a message dated 02/08/2013 07:44:52 AM Central Standard Time,
          > williamwarne@... writes:
          > > Robert,
          > >
          > > I'm attaching the manual. Let me know if it doesn't come through. I'm
          > > also uploading some additional pictures which pretty much show the entire
          > > assembly (except for the blade raising pawl / ratchet / cam assembly which is
          > > difficult to photograph because it is mostly covered by the drive gear
          > > housing (I tried to use a bore inspection camera to no avail). There is a
          > > nice fellow, Steve Wan, from China I believe, who is trying to duplicate the
          > > design in a slightly smaller format. I think he might be joining this group
          > > if he is not a member already. His problem has been duplicating the pawl
          > > / ratchet / cam assembly. I think I can get the cam timing for him using a
          > > dial indicator and a cam timing protractor, but it's going to be necessary
          > > to make a dial indicator extension of around 6-7". I can get to the cam
          > > if I remove the front gear cover which is easy enough since it's only held
          > > in place by two screws. You asked about the number. The Sears number is
          > > 101.22940.
          > >
          > > Bill
          > >
          > > --- On Thu, 2/7/13, wa5cab@... wrote:
          > >
          > > >>
          > >> From: wa5cab@...
          > >> Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
          > >> To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
          > >> Date: Thursday, February 7, 2013, 4:10 PM
          > >>
          > >> Bill,
          > >>
          > >> OK. I see the gear photos.
          > >>
          > >> Send the manual to me and I'll either put it into the Bandwaw folder in
          > >> the group's Files section or put it on atlas_craftsman_projects if it won't
          > >> fit here (that's one of the group's we use for additional file storage
          > >> space). Anyone who needs it can then get it from there.
          > >>
          > >> Robert D.
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >
          >
          > Robert & Susan Downs - Houston
          > wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
          > MVPA 9480
          >

        • Jim Peterson
          Bill, I have one of these little gems, and always enjoy seeing it work. It reminds me of a little steam engine with all the rotating and reciprocating and
          Message 5 of 23 , Feb 9, 2013
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            Bill, I have one of these little gems, and always enjoy seeing it work. It reminds me of a little steam engine with all the rotating and reciprocating and nodding motions going on.
            Clausing does stock some parts. I have bought some parts, like the 556-289 Raising Lever Plates, from them. I think SearsPartsDirect also has some parts, but not much other than hardware, but it is worth checking.
            I changed the 642-023 Lifting Arm Roller to a roller bearing. The original roller is approximately 1 inch in diameter, but there doesn't seem to be a roller bearing available in that diameter, so I went up to the next available diameter. I believe that it is 1.125 diameter, so there is .0625 inch increase on the radius. There doesn't seem to be any effect on how the saw works with the increased diameter.
            You should also know that there is a Yahoo group dedicated to this saw, and like me, I am sure you can get lots of good information and advise from the files and members there. Check it out: power_hacksaw@yahoogroups.com

            Good luck with your saw. It is a well-made American classic.

            Jim Peterson
          • William Warne
            Thanks for the heads up Jim!  I did a search but without an underscore between the words.  Computers are so picky!  Have a great weekend.   Bill ... From:
            Message 6 of 23 , Feb 9, 2013
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              Thanks for the heads up Jim!  I did a search but without an underscore between the words.  Computers are so picky!  Have a great weekend.
               
              Bill

              --- On Sat, 2/9/13, Jim Peterson <f4d711@...> wrote:

              From: Jim Peterson <f4d711@...>
              Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
              To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Saturday, February 9, 2013, 7:54 AM

               
              Bill, I have one of these little gems, and always enjoy seeing it work. It reminds me of a little steam engine with all the rotating and reciprocating and nodding motions going on.
              Clausing does stock some parts. I have bought some parts, like the 556-289 Raising Lever Plates, from them. I think SearsPartsDirect also has some parts, but not much other than hardware, but it is worth checking.
              I changed the 642-023 Lifting Arm Roller to a roller bearing. The original roller is approximately 1 inch in diameter, but there doesn't seem to be a roller bearing available in that diameter, so I went up to the next available diameter. I believe that it is 1.125 diameter, so there is .0625 inch increase on the radius. There doesn't seem to be any effect on how the saw works with the increased diameter.
              You should also know that there is a Yahoo group dedicated to this saw, and like me, I am sure you can get lots of good information and advise from the files and members there. Check it out: power_hacksaw@yahoogroups.com

              Good luck with your saw. It is a well-made American classic.

              Jim Peterson

            • William Warne
              ... One of my local places can get the Starrett powered hacksaw blades 10 and 14 TPI which are a fair amount coarser than the ones I m using now. I think
              Message 7 of 23 , Feb 12, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                > --- On Sat, 2/9/13, Chris wrote:
                >
                >
                > From: Chris
                > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
                > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Saturday, February 9, 2013, 5:42 AM
                >Chris,

                One of my local places can get the Starrett powered hacksaw blades 10 and 14 TPI which are a fair amount coarser than the ones I'm using now. I think that's a good thing, but what are your recommendations, say aluminum, on one hand, and steel on the other? I am currently cutting straight at better than 20 thousandths over two inches, what should I expect with the Starrett? The comment about the side on which to mount the blade is something that never occurred to me. I replaced it the way I found it. Seems to me that the way your suggesting might place the blade more centered beneath the reciprocating assembly and that likely would be a good thing. On the other hand, the way it is now I can shift the cut out by 1/4" and, on occasion, that's handy. My thinking on the nut and bolt arrangement was that the head of the stainless steel bolt (a wide, button style head) had a large surface area to hold the blade from shifting and thereby not cutting straight. The pins were almost acting like bearings and allowing the blade to wobble (that may be more the result of condition as opposed to a problem with the design).

                Thanks again for all your wonderful advice!

                Bill
                >
                >
                >  
                >
                >
                >
                > Bob and Bill,
                > I replied to your earlier messages but evidently you didn't see or read my comments. That PDF is already in the file section of this group and has been there since '07
                > Bill, the hand hacksaw blade you currently have in that saw will not last nor will it cut straight. Search for and buy a power hacksaw blade. The nut and bolt arraignment will work but not as well as the original setup. That was roll pins that are slightly angled away from each other. BTW, the blade should be on the vise side of the blade mounts.
                > HTH,
                > Chris
              • Chris
                Bill, The blade TPI is picked based on what thickness material you are planning to cut. This would apply to bandsaw blades as well as power hacksaw blades. The
                Message 8 of 23 , Feb 13, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Bill,
                  The blade TPI is picked based on what thickness material you are planning to cut. This would apply to bandsaw blades as well as power hacksaw blades. The rule of thumb is a minimum of 3 teeth in the work. I've heard that quoted as high as 4 and as low as 2 but nobody ever told me why. Here's why you need at least 3 teeth in your work. Let's say you have a 2 tpi blade. That's 2 teeth in 1 inch or 1 every half inch. Say I want to cut a piece of 1/4" steel. If I'm lucky, when I put my saw frame down to cut, a tooth may be resting on the stock I want to cut. As soon as I move the saw the saw blade will drop in between the teeth onto the stock and the next tooth will ram into the work. One of two things will happen; the saw itself will stop or the tooth will be sheared off of the blade. Thus, the blade TPI must be chosen so that at least 3 teeth are in the stock, in other words, the 3 teeth support the blade. Two tricks to cut that 1/4" with a 2 TPI blade ( if that's the only blade you have ). Lay the stock down so you are cutting the width, not the thickness. Another method is to clamp a piece of wood or waste aluminum stock to your piece to support the blade. You would end up cutting both at the same time. Watch cutting items such as I beams or angle iron. You have to consider the cross section and what will be supporting your blade teeth.Based on the above you can cut .300" or above with the 10 TPI blade and .214" or above with the 14 tpi. Just take 3/TPI to figure your minimum thickness. Now, I know what your next question will be - why not use a 50 tpi blade for everything? If you are cutting thick stock there is nowhere for the chips to go on a high TPI blade. Not as bad on a bandsaw but not good on a hacksaw. Plus each tooth is smaller and removes less material and gets full of swarf quicker. The lower the TPI the faster the cut (in most cases).
                  The blades that you are looking at are 2 or 3 times thicker than a hand hacksaw blade and wider. Those bolts won't last long. The roll pins are hardened. The reason the blade goes on the vice side is that the roll pin retainer holes are angled. If you stand square to the blade, on the side of the saw opposite from the vise, and look straight down the roll pins would form a V ( a rather large one) if you drew lines through the middle of the roll pins. The point of the V would points towards you and the open end of the V would point towards the vise. Thus you must put the blade on the vise side so that when you tension the blade it pulls it into the retainer blocks. If your roll pin holes are wallowed out just drill them to the next larger size. Just remember to angle the holes slightly away from square.
                  A good power hacksaw blade, properly tensioned, will amaze you with how square it can cut- just make sure the fixed jaw on the vise is square to your blade.
                  HTH,
                  CHris

                  --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "William Warne" wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > > --- On Sat, 2/9/13, Chris wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > From: Chris
                  > > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
                  > > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Date: Saturday, February 9, 2013, 5:42 AM
                  > >Chris,
                  >
                  > One of my local places can get the Starrett powered hacksaw blades 10 and 14 TPI which are a fair amount coarser than the ones I'm using now. I think that's a good thing, but what are your recommendations, say aluminum, on one hand, and steel on the other? I am currently cutting straight at better than 20 thousandths over two inches, what should I expect with the Starrett? The comment about the side on which to mount the blade is something that never occurred to me. I replaced it the way I found it. Seems to me that the way your suggesting might place the blade more centered beneath the reciprocating assembly and that likely would be a good thing. On the other hand, the way it is now I can shift the cut out by 1/4" and, on occasion, that's handy. My thinking on the nut and bolt arrangement was that the head of the stainless steel bolt (a wide, button style head) had a large surface area to hold the blade from shifting and thereby not cutting straight. The pins were almost acting like bearings and allowing the blade to wobble (that may be more the result of condition as opposed to a problem with the design).
                  >
                  > Thanks again for all your wonderful advice!
                  >
                  > Bill
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >  
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Bob and Bill,
                  > > I replied to your earlier messages but evidently you didn't see or read my comments. That PDF is already in the file section of this group and has been there since '07
                  > > Bill, the hand hacksaw blade you currently have in that saw will not last nor will it cut straight. Search for and buy a power hacksaw blade. The nut and bolt arraignment will work but not as well as the original setup. That was roll pins that are slightly angled away from each other. BTW, the blade should be on the vise side of the blade mounts.
                  > > HTH,
                  > > Chris
                  >
                • William Warne
                  Chris,   I ran into a snag.  I picked up the Starrett blades yesterday and was excited to try one.  The blades are the right length, 12 , but the holes are
                  Message 9 of 23 , Feb 13, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Chris,
                     
                    I ran into a snag.  I picked up the Starrett blades yesterday and was excited to try one.  The blades are the right length, 12", but the holes are very much larger than the bolts I was using (which were slightly larger than the pins).  The regular blade hole size is roughly 1/8" (and very close to the pin size); the Starrett measures .3294.  If I bore a .3294 hole in the "frame" I'm afraid I'll greatly weaken its integrity, so whether I use a pin or a bolt I think I will need to "step" it so that it has a small diameter for the frame, but a larger diameter for the blade.  Got to admit though, the heavier and taller red and yellow blade looks awfully nice.
                    Bill
                    --- On Wed, 2/13/13, Chris <chris_peterson@...> wrote:

                    From: Chris <chris_peterson@...>
                    Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
                    To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 4:58 AM

                     
                    Bill,
                    The blade TPI is picked based on what thickness material you are planning to cut. This would apply to bandsaw blades as well as power hacksaw blades. The rule of thumb is a minimum of 3 teeth in the work. I've heard that quoted as high as 4 and as low as 2 but nobody ever told me why. Here's why you need at least 3 teeth in your work. Let's say you have a 2 tpi blade. That's 2 teeth in 1 inch or 1 every half inch. Say I want to cut a piece of 1/4" steel. If I'm lucky, when I put my saw frame down to cut, a tooth may be resting on the stock I want to cut. As soon as I move the saw the saw blade will drop in between the teeth onto the stock and the next tooth will ram into the work. One of two things will happen; the saw itself will stop or the tooth will be sheared off of the blade. Thus, the blade TPI must be chosen so that at least 3 teeth are in the stock, in other words, the 3 teeth support the blade. Two tricks to cut that 1/4" with a 2 TPI blade ( if that's the only blade you have ). Lay the stock down so you are cutting the width, not the thickness. Another method is to clamp a piece of wood or waste aluminum stock to your piece to support the blade. You would end up cutting both at the same time. Watch cutting items such as I beams or angle iron. You have to consider the cross section and what will be supporting your blade teeth.Based on the above you can cut .300" or above with the 10 TPI blade and .214" or above with the 14 tpi. Just take 3/TPI to figure your minimum thickness. Now, I know what your next question will be - why not use a 50 tpi blade for everything? If you are cutting thick stock there is nowhere for the chips to go on a high TPI blade. Not as bad on a bandsaw but not good on a hacksaw. Plus each tooth is smaller and removes less material and gets full of swarf quicker. The lower the TPI the faster the cut (in most cases).
                    The blades that you are looking at are 2 or 3 times thicker than a hand hacksaw blade and wider. Those bolts won't last long. The roll pins are hardened. The reason the blade goes on the vice side is that the roll pin retainer holes are angled. If you stand square to the blade, on the side of the saw opposite from the vise, and look straight down the roll pins would form a V ( a rather large one) if you drew lines through the middle of the roll pins. The point of the V would points towards you and the open end of the V would point towards the vise. Thus you must put the blade on the vise side so that when you tension the blade it pulls it into the retainer blocks. If your roll pin holes are wallowed out just drill them to the next larger size. Just remember to angle the holes slightly away from square.
                    A good power hacksaw blade, properly tensioned, will amaze you with how square it can cut- just make sure the fixed jaw on the vise is square to your blade.
                    HTH,
                    CHris

                    --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "William Warne" wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > > --- On Sat, 2/9/13, Chris wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > From: Chris
                    > > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
                    > > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Date: Saturday, February 9, 2013, 5:42 AM
                    > >Chris,
                    >
                    > One of my local places can get the Starrett powered hacksaw blades 10 and 14 TPI which are a fair amount coarser than the ones I'm using now. I think that's a good thing, but what are your recommendations, say aluminum, on one hand, and steel on the other? I am currently cutting straight at better than 20 thousandths over two inches, what should I expect with the Starrett? The comment about the side on which to mount the blade is something that never occurred to me. I replaced it the way I found it. Seems to me that the way your suggesting might place the blade more centered beneath the reciprocating assembly and that likely would be a good thing. On the other hand, the way it is now I can shift the cut out by 1/4" and, on occasion, that's handy. My thinking on the nut and bolt arrangement was that the head of the stainless steel bolt (a wide, button style head) had a large surface area to hold the blade from shifting and thereby not cutting straight. The pins were almost acting like bearings and allowing the blade to wobble (that may be more the result of condition as opposed to a problem with the design).
                    >
                    > Thanks again for all your wonderful advice!
                    >
                    > Bill
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >  
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Bob and Bill,
                    > > I replied to your earlier messages but evidently you didn't see or read my comments. That PDF is already in the file section of this group and has been there since '07
                    > > Bill, the hand hacksaw blade you currently have in that saw will not last nor will it cut straight. Search for and buy a power hacksaw blade. The nut and bolt arraignment will work but not as well as the original setup. That was roll pins that are slightly angled away from each other. BTW, the blade should be on the vise side of the blade mounts.
                    > > HTH,
                    > > Chris
                    >

                  • Charles
                    I have an Atlas power hacksaw, and have never had a problem with the pins being too small. They are their to tension it, so the real problem would be if the
                    Message 10 of 23 , Feb 13, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I have an Atlas power hacksaw, and have never had a problem with the pins being too small.   They are their to tension it, so the real problem would be if the pins were too big.

                      Charles

                    • tim rigg
                      I have recently bought an Atlas 10-F, where will I find the serial no`s. According to smaller timken its from 10-24-40, which makes it seven years older than
                      Message 11 of 23 , Feb 13, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I have recently bought an Atlas 10-F,  where will I find the serial no`s.  According to smaller timken its from 10-24-40, which makes it seven years older than me. I am in the process of restoring it hopefully to somewhere near what it should be, it appears to hve had some abuse in its life.
                        Regards
                        Tim
                      • wa5cab
                        Tim From numerous photos I have seen, the standard or at least most common factory method was to put the serial number on the nameplate, which in those days
                        Message 12 of 23 , Feb 13, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Tim

                          From numerous photos I have seen, the standard or at least most common factory method was to put the serial number on the nameplate, which in those days was attached to the rear of the bed.  I have also seen a few photos of a four- or longer digit number stamped in the front way at the right end.  But it hasn't AFAIK been confirmed that those were factory serial numbers.

                          Robert D.

                          In a message dated 02/13/2013 12:25:11 PM Central Standard Time, tim.rigg7@... writes:
                          I have recently bought an Atlas 10-F,  where will I find the serial no`s.  According to smaller timken its from 10-24-40, which makes it seven years older than me. I am in the process of restoring it hopefully to somewhere near what it should be, it appears to hve had some abuse in its life.
                          Regards
                          Tim
                        • Chris
                          Bill, Read my reply about blade tpi. I talk about the retaining pins and how they are angled. That s why I told you to ditch the bolts and use roll pins.
                          Message 13 of 23 , Feb 13, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Bill,
                            Read my reply about blade tpi. I talk about the retaining pins and how they are angled. That's why I told you to ditch the bolts and use roll pins. Doesn't matter if they are too small since they are angled.
                            Chris

                            --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, William Warne wrote:
                            >
                            > Chris,
                            >  
                            > I ran into a snag.  I picked up the Starrett blades yesterday and was excited to try one.  The blades are the right length, 12", but the holes are very much larger than the bolts I was using (which were slightly larger than the pins).  The regular blade hole size is roughly 1/8" (and very close to the pin size); the Starrett measures .3294.  If I bore a .3294 hole in the "frame" I'm afraid I'll greatly weaken its integrity, so whether I use a pin or a bolt I think I will need to "step" it so that it has a small diameter for the frame, but a larger diameter for the blade.  Got to admit though, the heavier and taller red and yellow blade looks awfully nice.
                            >
                            > Bill
                            > --- On Wed, 2/13/13, Chris wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > From: Chris
                            > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
                            > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                            > Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 4:58 AM
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >  
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Bill,
                            > The blade TPI is picked based on what thickness material you are planning to cut. This would apply to bandsaw blades as well as power hacksaw blades. The rule of thumb is a minimum of 3 teeth in the work. I've heard that quoted as high as 4 and as low as 2 but nobody ever told me why. Here's why you need at least 3 teeth in your work. Let's say you have a 2 tpi blade. That's 2 teeth in 1 inch or 1 every half inch. Say I want to cut a piece of 1/4" steel. If I'm lucky, when I put my saw frame down to cut, a tooth may be resting on the stock I want to cut. As soon as I move the saw the saw blade will drop in between the teeth onto the stock and the next tooth will ram into the work. One of two things will happen; the saw itself will stop or the tooth will be sheared off of the blade. Thus, the blade TPI must be chosen so that at least 3 teeth are in the stock, in other words, the 3 teeth support the blade. Two tricks to cut that 1/4" with a 2 TPI blade (
                            > if that's the only blade you have ). Lay the stock down so you are cutting the width, not the thickness. Another method is to clamp a piece of wood or waste aluminum stock to your piece to support the blade. You would end up cutting both at the same time. Watch cutting items such as I beams or angle iron. You have to consider the cross section and what will be supporting your blade teeth.Based on the above you can cut .300" or above with the 10 TPI blade and .214" or above with the 14 tpi. Just take 3/TPI to figure your minimum thickness. Now, I know what your next question will be - why not use a 50 tpi blade for everything? If you are cutting thick stock there is nowhere for the chips to go on a high TPI blade. Not as bad on a bandsaw but not good on a hacksaw. Plus each tooth is smaller and removes less material and gets full of swarf quicker. The lower the TPI the faster the cut (in most cases).
                            > The blades that you are looking at are 2 or 3 times thicker than a hand hacksaw blade and wider. Those bolts won't last long. The roll pins are hardened. The reason the blade goes on the vice side is that the roll pin retainer holes are angled. If you stand square to the blade, on the side of the saw opposite from the vise, and look straight down the roll pins would form a V ( a rather large one) if you drew lines through the middle of the roll pins. The point of the V would points towards you and the open end of the V would point towards the vise. Thus you must put the blade on the vise side so that when you tension the blade it pulls it into the retainer blocks. If your roll pin holes are wallowed out just drill them to the next larger size. Just remember to angle the holes slightly away from square.
                            > A good power hacksaw blade, properly tensioned, will amaze you with how square it can cut- just make sure the fixed jaw on the vise is square to your blade.
                            > HTH,
                            > CHris
                            >
                            > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "William Warne" wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > > --- On Sat, 2/9/13, Chris wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > From: Chris
                            > > > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
                            > > > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > Date: Saturday, February 9, 2013, 5:42 AM
                            > > >Chris,
                            > >
                            > > One of my local places can get the Starrett powered hacksaw blades 10 and 14 TPI which are a fair amount coarser than the ones I'm using now. I think that's a good thing, but what are your recommendations, say aluminum, on one hand, and steel on the other? I am currently cutting straight at better than 20 thousandths over two inches, what should I expect with the Starrett? The comment about the side on which to mount the blade is something that never occurred to me. I replaced it the way I found it. Seems to me that the way your suggesting might place the blade more centered beneath the reciprocating assembly and that likely would be a good thing. On the other hand, the way it is now I can shift the cut out by 1/4" and, on occasion, that's handy. My thinking on the nut and bolt arrangement was that the head of the stainless steel bolt (a wide, button style head) had a large surface area to hold the blade from shifting and thereby not cutting straight.
                            > The pins were almost acting like bearings and allowing the blade to wobble (that may be more the result of condition as opposed to a problem with the design).
                            > >
                            > > Thanks again for all your wonderful advice!
                            > >
                            > > Bill
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >  
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Bob and Bill,
                            > > > I replied to your earlier messages but evidently you didn't see or read my comments. That PDF is already in the file section of this group and has been there since '07
                            > > > Bill, the hand hacksaw blade you currently have in that saw will not last nor will it cut straight. Search for and buy a power hacksaw blade. The nut and bolt arraignment will work but not as well as the original setup. That was roll pins that are slightly angled away from each other. BTW, the blade should be on the vise side of the blade mounts.
                            > > > HTH,
                            > > > Chris
                            > >
                            >
                          • William Warne
                            Chris,   Sorry, rough day trying to negotiate common sense with the crazies while re-assuring another party that his world isn t really going to end.  I
                            Message 14 of 23 , Feb 13, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Chris,
                               
                              Sorry, rough day trying to negotiate common sense with the crazies while re-assuring another party that his world isn't really going to end.  I feel the need to cut metal!  Anyway, I would have gotten back to you more quickly had the day gone differently. 
                               
                              You've given a lot of good advice.  But I would have to re-angle the hole and put in a larger pin and the smaller pin does have the advantage of being able to use regular blades.  I always like things that use easily obtainable parts -- regular "off the shelf" batteries instead of hard to get special ones, for example.
                               
                              So, just speculating, if the issue is strength of the bolt and the likelihood of fatigue, what if I used a more resilient material, say Titanium?  The surplus place where I generally buy my aluminum sells all sorts of exotic metals.  Just speculating.  And, though I'm not saying that it isn't so (I recognize that I have much to learn), it's not clear to me why a hook would be any more secure than a bolt (quality of the metal aside).  On the other hand, it is clear to me that a "hook" would allow quicker and easier blade changes.
                               
                              I really like the idea of decreasing the TPI by the use of the heavier blades.  There won't be a problem with too few teeth because I use the saw to cut larger size stock (say 2x2 and such).  I can almost see the chips in my mind's eye (a lot nicer than the small ones I get with the regular blade which I believe is 18 TPI).
                               
                              Thanks again for all of your advice,
                               
                              Bill

                              --- On Wed, 2/13/13, Chris <chris_peterson@...> wrote:

                              From: Chris <chris_peterson@...>
                              Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
                              To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 3:39 PM

                               
                              Bill,
                              Read my reply about blade tpi. I talk about the retaining pins and how they are angled. That's why I told you to ditch the bolts and use roll pins. Doesn't matter if they are too small since they are angled.
                              Chris

                              --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, William Warne wrote:
                              >
                              > Chris,
                              >  
                              > I ran into a snag.  I picked up the Starrett blades yesterday and was excited to try one.  The blades are the right length, 12", but the holes are very much larger than the bolts I was using (which were slightly larger than the pins).  The regular blade hole size is roughly 1/8" (and very close to the pin size); the Starrett measures .3294.  If I bore a .3294 hole in the "frame" I'm afraid I'll greatly weaken its integrity, so whether I use a pin or a bolt I think I will need to "step" it so that it has a small diameter for the frame, but a larger diameter for the blade.  Got to admit though, the heavier and taller red and yellow blade looks awfully nice.
                              >
                              > Bill
                              > --- On Wed, 2/13/13, Chris wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > From: Chris
                              > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
                              > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 4:58 AM
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Bill,
                              > The blade TPI is picked based on what thickness material you are planning to cut. This would apply to bandsaw blades as well as power hacksaw blades. The rule of thumb is a minimum of 3 teeth in the work. I've heard that quoted as high as 4 and as low as 2 but nobody ever told me why. Here's why you need at least 3 teeth in your work. Let's say you have a 2 tpi blade. That's 2 teeth in 1 inch or 1 every half inch. Say I want to cut a piece of 1/4" steel. If I'm lucky, when I put my saw frame down to cut, a tooth may be resting on the stock I want to cut. As soon as I move the saw the saw blade will drop in between the teeth onto the stock and the next tooth will ram into the work. One of two things will happen; the saw itself will stop or the tooth will be sheared off of the blade. Thus, the blade TPI must be chosen so that at least 3 teeth are in the stock, in other words, the 3 teeth support the blade. Two tricks to cut that 1/4" with a 2 TPI blade (
                              > if that's the only blade you have ). Lay the stock down so you are cutting the width, not the thickness. Another method is to clamp a piece of wood or waste aluminum stock to your piece to support the blade. You would end up cutting both at the same time. Watch cutting items such as I beams or angle iron. You have to consider the cross section and what will be supporting your blade teeth.Based on the above you can cut .300" or above with the 10 TPI blade and .214" or above with the 14 tpi. Just take 3/TPI to figure your minimum thickness. Now, I know what your next question will be - why not use a 50 tpi blade for everything? If you are cutting thick stock there is nowhere for the chips to go on a high TPI blade. Not as bad on a bandsaw but not good on a hacksaw. Plus each tooth is smaller and removes less material and gets full of swarf quicker. The lower the TPI the faster the cut (in most cases).
                              > The blades that you are looking at are 2 or 3 times thicker than a hand hacksaw blade and wider. Those bolts won't last long. The roll pins are hardened. The reason the blade goes on the vice side is that the roll pin retainer holes are angled. If you stand square to the blade, on the side of the saw opposite from the vise, and look straight down the roll pins would form a V ( a rather large one) if you drew lines through the middle of the roll pins. The point of the V would points towards you and the open end of the V would point towards the vise. Thus you must put the blade on the vise side so that when you tension the blade it pulls it into the retainer blocks. If your roll pin holes are wallowed out just drill them to the next larger size. Just remember to angle the holes slightly away from square.
                              > A good power hacksaw blade, properly tensioned, will amaze you with how square it can cut- just make sure the fixed jaw on the vise is square to your blade.
                              > HTH,
                              > CHris
                              >
                              > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "William Warne" wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > > --- On Sat, 2/9/13, Chris wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > From: Chris
                              > > > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
                              > > > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > Date: Saturday, February 9, 2013, 5:42 AM
                              > > >Chris,
                              > >
                              > > One of my local places can get the Starrett powered hacksaw blades 10 and 14 TPI which are a fair amount coarser than the ones I'm using now. I think that's a good thing, but what are your recommendations, say aluminum, on one hand, and steel on the other? I am currently cutting straight at better than 20 thousandths over two inches, what should I expect with the Starrett? The comment about the side on which to mount the blade is something that never occurred to me. I replaced it the way I found it. Seems to me that the way your suggesting might place the blade more centered beneath the reciprocating assembly and that likely would be a good thing. On the other hand, the way it is now I can shift the cut out by 1/4" and, on occasion, that's handy. My thinking on the nut and bolt arrangement was that the head of the stainless steel bolt (a wide, button style head) had a large surface area to hold the blade from shifting and thereby not cutting straight.
                              > The pins were almost acting like bearings and allowing the blade to wobble (that may be more the result of condition as opposed to a problem with the design).
                              > >
                              > > Thanks again for all your wonderful advice!
                              > >
                              > > Bill
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >  
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Bob and Bill,
                              > > > I replied to your earlier messages but evidently you didn't see or read my comments. That PDF is already in the file section of this group and has been there since '07
                              > > > Bill, the hand hacksaw blade you currently have in that saw will not last nor will it cut straight. Search for and buy a power hacksaw blade. The nut and bolt arraignment will work but not as well as the original setup. That was roll pins that are slightly angled away from each other. BTW, the blade should be on the vise side of the blade mounts.
                              > > > HTH,
                              > > > Chris
                              > >
                              >

                            • Charles
                              Angled pins are the standard way on powered and quality hand hacksaws, if yours are oversize, braze, rebore and reinstall the right size pin. An angled pin
                              Message 15 of 23 , Feb 13, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Angled pins are the standard way on powered and quality hand hacksaws, if yours are oversize, braze, rebore and reinstall the right size pin.   An angled pin will keep the blade on the right track. 

                                Charles
                              • Chris
                                Bill, Think about it. The blade must be under tension to work properly and cut straight. If you nut and bolt it tight enough to hold the blade then you will
                                Message 16 of 23 , Feb 13, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Bill,
                                  Think about it. The blade must be under tension to work properly and cut straight. If you nut and bolt it tight enough to hold the blade then you will have trouble applying the correct tension. If you leave the bolts slightly loose they will bow inwards once you tension the blade. Not conducive to a straight cut. I've been where you are. I once was a blade bolter. I learned. The hard way. I'm trying to save you a ride on the learning curve. Make some new blocks with pins and save the old blocks for your nut/bolt/hand hacksaw blade setup. I'd bet money once you use the pins and that Starett blade you won't use the old rig.
                                  Just my $.02
                                  Chris

                                  --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, William Warne wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Chris,
                                  >  
                                  > Sorry, rough day trying to negotiate common sense with the crazies while re-assuring another party that his world isn't really going to end.  I feel the need to cut metal!  Anyway, I would have gotten back to you more quickly had the day gone differently. 
                                  >  
                                  > You've given a lot of good advice.  But I would have to re-angle the hole and put in a larger pin and the smaller pin does have the advantage of being able to use regular blades.  I always like things that use easily obtainable parts -- regular "off the shelf" batteries instead of hard to get special ones, for example.
                                  >  
                                  > So, just speculating, if the issue is strength of the bolt and the likelihood of fatigue, what if I used a more resilient material, say Titanium?  The surplus place where I generally buy my aluminum sells all sorts of exotic metals.  Just speculating.  And, though I'm not saying that it isn't so (I recognize that I have much to learn), it's not clear to me why a hook would be any more secure than a bolt (quality of the metal aside).  On the other hand, it is clear to me that a "hook" would allow quicker and easier blade changes.
                                  >  
                                  > I really like the idea of decreasing the TPI by the use of the heavier blades.  There won't be a problem with too few teeth because I use the saw to cut larger size stock (say 2x2 and such).  I can almost see the chips in my mind's eye (a lot nicer than the small ones I get with the regular blade which I believe is 18 TPI).
                                  >  
                                  > Thanks again for all of your advice,
                                  >  
                                  > Bill
                                  >
                                  > --- On Wed, 2/13/13, Chris wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > From: Chris
                                  > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
                                  > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 3:39 PM
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Bill,
                                  > Read my reply about blade tpi. I talk about the retaining pins and how they are angled. That's why I told you to ditch the bolts and use roll pins. Doesn't matter if they are too small since they are angled.
                                  > Chris
                                  >
                                  > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, William Warne wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Chris,
                                  > >  
                                  > > I ran into a snag.  I picked up the Starrett blades yesterday and was excited to try one.  The blades are the right length, 12", but the holes are very much larger than the bolts I was using (which were slightly larger than the pins).  The regular blade hole size is roughly 1/8" (and very close to the pin size); the Starrett measures .3294.  If I bore a .3294 hole in the "frame" I'm afraid I'll greatly weaken its integrity, so whether I use a pin or a bolt I think I will need to "step" it so that it has a small diameter for the frame, but a larger diameter for the blade.  Got to admit though, the heavier and taller red and yellow blade looks awfully nice.
                                  > >
                                  > > Bill
                                  > > --- On Wed, 2/13/13, Chris wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > From: Chris
                                  > > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
                                  > > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 4:58 AM
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >  
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Bill,
                                  > > The blade TPI is picked based on what thickness material you are planning to cut. This would apply to bandsaw blades as well as power hacksaw blades. The rule of thumb is a minimum of 3 teeth in the work. I've heard that quoted as high as 4 and as low as 2 but nobody ever told me why. Here's why you need at least 3 teeth in your work. Let's say you have a 2 tpi blade. That's 2 teeth in 1 inch or 1 every half inch. Say I want to cut a piece of 1/4" steel. If I'm lucky, when I put my saw frame down to cut, a tooth may be resting on the stock I want to cut. As soon as I move the saw the saw blade will drop in between the teeth onto the stock and the next tooth will ram into the work. One of two things will happen; the saw itself will stop or the tooth will be sheared off of the blade. Thus, the blade TPI must be chosen so that at least 3 teeth are in the stock, in other words, the 3 teeth support the blade. Two tricks to cut that 1/4" with a 2 TPI blade (
                                  > > if that's the only blade you have ). Lay the stock down so you are cutting the width, not the thickness. Another method is to clamp a piece of wood or waste aluminum stock to your piece to support the blade. You would end up cutting both at the same time. Watch cutting items such as I beams or angle iron. You have to consider the cross section and what will be supporting your blade teeth.Based on the above you can cut .300" or above with the 10 TPI blade and .214" or above with the 14 tpi. Just take 3/TPI to figure your minimum thickness. Now, I know what your next question will be - why not use a 50 tpi blade for everything? If you are cutting thick stock there is nowhere for the chips to go on a high TPI blade. Not as bad on a bandsaw but not good on a hacksaw. Plus each tooth is smaller and removes less material and gets full of swarf quicker. The lower the TPI the faster the cut (in most cases).
                                  > > The blades that you are looking at are 2 or 3 times thicker than a hand hacksaw blade and wider. Those bolts won't last long. The roll pins are hardened. The reason the blade goes on the vice side is that the roll pin retainer holes are angled. If you stand square to the blade, on the side of the saw opposite from the vise, and look straight down the roll pins would form a V ( a rather large one) if you drew lines through the middle of the roll pins. The point of the V would points towards you and the open end of the V would point towards the vise. Thus you must put the blade on the vise side so that when you tension the blade it pulls it into the retainer blocks. If your roll pin holes are wallowed out just drill them to the next larger size. Just remember to angle the holes slightly away from square.
                                  > > A good power hacksaw blade, properly tensioned, will amaze you with how square it can cut- just make sure the fixed jaw on the vise is square to your blade.
                                  > > HTH,
                                  > > CHris
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "William Warne" wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > > --- On Sat, 2/9/13, Chris wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > From: Chris
                                  > > > > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
                                  > > > > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > > Date: Saturday, February 9, 2013, 5:42 AM
                                  > > > >Chris,
                                  > > >
                                  > > > One of my local places can get the Starrett powered hacksaw blades 10 and 14 TPI which are a fair amount coarser than the ones I'm using now. I think that's a good thing, but what are your recommendations, say aluminum, on one hand, and steel on the other? I am currently cutting straight at better than 20 thousandths over two inches, what should I expect with the Starrett? The comment about the side on which to mount the blade is something that never occurred to me. I replaced it the way I found it. Seems to me that the way your suggesting might place the blade more centered beneath the reciprocating assembly and that likely would be a good thing. On the other hand, the way it is now I can shift the cut out by 1/4" and, on occasion, that's handy. My thinking on the nut and bolt arrangement was that the head of the stainless steel bolt (a wide, button style head) had a large surface area to hold the blade from shifting and thereby not cutting
                                  > straight.
                                  > > The pins were almost acting like bearings and allowing the blade to wobble (that may be more the result of condition as opposed to a problem with the design).
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Thanks again for all your wonderful advice!
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Bill
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >  
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Bob and Bill,
                                  > > > > I replied to your earlier messages but evidently you didn't see or read my comments. That PDF is already in the file section of this group and has been there since '07
                                  > > > > Bill, the hand hacksaw blade you currently have in that saw will not last nor will it cut straight. Search for and buy a power hacksaw blade. The nut and bolt arraignment will work but not as well as the original setup. That was roll pins that are slightly angled away from each other. BTW, the blade should be on the vise side of the blade mounts.
                                  > > > > HTH,
                                  > > > > Chris
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • William Warne
                                  Thanks Chris,   I m starting to see what you re saying although I can t quite fully visualize it in my mind yet.  There are a lot of concepts I m still
                                  Message 17 of 23 , Feb 14, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Thanks Chris,
                                     
                                    I'm starting to see what you're saying although I can't quite fully visualize it in my mind yet.  There are a lot of concepts I'm still learning.  But that's the exciting part of life.  We don't have to stop learning.  My biggest problem now is space.  And I'm starting to want everything I see.  Machine work is becoming my "drug" of choice!  :)  Your suggestion is on my project list!

                                    --- On Wed, 2/13/13, Chris <chris_peterson@...> wrote:

                                    From: Chris <chris_peterson@...>
                                    Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
                                    To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 5:30 PM

                                     
                                    Bill,
                                    Think about it. The blade must be under tension to work properly and cut straight. If you nut and bolt it tight enough to hold the blade then you will have trouble applying the correct tension. If you leave the bolts slightly loose they will bow inwards once you tension the blade. Not conducive to a straight cut. I've been where you are. I once was a blade bolter. I learned. The hard way. I'm trying to save you a ride on the learning curve. Make some new blocks with pins and save the old blocks for your nut/bolt/hand hacksaw blade setup. I'd bet money once you use the pins and that Starett blade you won't use the old rig.
                                    Just my $.02
                                    Chris

                                    --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, William Warne wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Chris,
                                    >  
                                    > Sorry, rough day trying to negotiate common sense with the crazies while re-assuring another party that his world isn't really going to end.  I feel the need to cut metal!  Anyway, I would have gotten back to you more quickly had the day gone differently. 
                                    >  
                                    > You've given a lot of good advice.  But I would have to re-angle the hole and put in a larger pin and the smaller pin does have the advantage of being able to use regular blades.  I always like things that use easily obtainable parts -- regular "off the shelf" batteries instead of hard to get special ones, for example.
                                    >  
                                    > So, just speculating, if the issue is strength of the bolt and the likelihood of fatigue, what if I used a more resilient material, say Titanium?  The surplus place where I generally buy my aluminum sells all sorts of exotic metals.  Just speculating.  And, though I'm not saying that it isn't so (I recognize that I have much to learn), it's not clear to me why a hook would be any more secure than a bolt (quality of the metal aside).  On the other hand, it is clear to me that a "hook" would allow quicker and easier blade changes.
                                    >  
                                    > I really like the idea of decreasing the TPI by the use of the heavier blades.  There won't be a problem with too few teeth because I use the saw to cut larger size stock (say 2x2 and such).  I can almost see the chips in my mind's eye (a lot nicer than the small ones I get with the regular blade which I believe is 18 TPI).
                                    >  
                                    > Thanks again for all of your advice,
                                    >  
                                    > Bill
                                    >
                                    > --- On Wed, 2/13/13, Chris wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > From: Chris
                                    > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
                                    > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 3:39 PM
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Bill,
                                    > Read my reply about blade tpi. I talk about the retaining pins and how they are angled. That's why I told you to ditch the bolts and use roll pins. Doesn't matter if they are too small since they are angled.
                                    > Chris
                                    >
                                    > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, William Warne wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Chris,
                                    > >  
                                    > > I ran into a snag.  I picked up the Starrett blades yesterday and was excited to try one.  The blades are the right length, 12", but the holes are very much larger than the bolts I was using (which were slightly larger than the pins).  The regular blade hole size is roughly 1/8" (and very close to the pin size); the Starrett measures .3294.  If I bore a .3294 hole in the "frame" I'm afraid I'll greatly weaken its integrity, so whether I use a pin or a bolt I think I will need to "step" it so that it has a small diameter for the frame, but a larger diameter for the blade.  Got to admit though, the heavier and taller red and yellow blade looks awfully nice.
                                    > >
                                    > > Bill
                                    > > --- On Wed, 2/13/13, Chris wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > From: Chris
                                    > > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
                                    > > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 4:58 AM
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >  
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Bill,
                                    > > The blade TPI is picked based on what thickness material you are planning to cut. This would apply to bandsaw blades as well as power hacksaw blades. The rule of thumb is a minimum of 3 teeth in the work. I've heard that quoted as high as 4 and as low as 2 but nobody ever told me why. Here's why you need at least 3 teeth in your work. Let's say you have a 2 tpi blade. That's 2 teeth in 1 inch or 1 every half inch. Say I want to cut a piece of 1/4" steel. If I'm lucky, when I put my saw frame down to cut, a tooth may be resting on the stock I want to cut. As soon as I move the saw the saw blade will drop in between the teeth onto the stock and the next tooth will ram into the work. One of two things will happen; the saw itself will stop or the tooth will be sheared off of the blade. Thus, the blade TPI must be chosen so that at least 3 teeth are in the stock, in other words, the 3 teeth support the blade. Two tricks to cut that 1/4" with a 2 TPI blade (
                                    > > if that's the only blade you have ). Lay the stock down so you are cutting the width, not the thickness. Another method is to clamp a piece of wood or waste aluminum stock to your piece to support the blade. You would end up cutting both at the same time. Watch cutting items such as I beams or angle iron. You have to consider the cross section and what will be supporting your blade teeth.Based on the above you can cut .300" or above with the 10 TPI blade and .214" or above with the 14 tpi. Just take 3/TPI to figure your minimum thickness. Now, I know what your next question will be - why not use a 50 tpi blade for everything? If you are cutting thick stock there is nowhere for the chips to go on a high TPI blade. Not as bad on a bandsaw but not good on a hacksaw. Plus each tooth is smaller and removes less material and gets full of swarf quicker. The lower the TPI the faster the cut (in most cases).
                                    > > The blades that you are looking at are 2 or 3 times thicker than a hand hacksaw blade and wider. Those bolts won't last long. The roll pins are hardened. The reason the blade goes on the vice side is that the roll pin retainer holes are angled. If you stand square to the blade, on the side of the saw opposite from the vise, and look straight down the roll pins would form a V ( a rather large one) if you drew lines through the middle of the roll pins. The point of the V would points towards you and the open end of the V would point towards the vise. Thus you must put the blade on the vise side so that when you tension the blade it pulls it into the retainer blocks. If your roll pin holes are wallowed out just drill them to the next larger size. Just remember to angle the holes slightly away from square.
                                    > > A good power hacksaw blade, properly tensioned, will amaze you with how square it can cut- just make sure the fixed jaw on the vise is square to your blade.
                                    > > HTH,
                                    > > CHris
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "William Warne" wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > > --- On Sat, 2/9/13, Chris wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > From: Chris
                                    > > > > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
                                    > > > > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > Date: Saturday, February 9, 2013, 5:42 AM
                                    > > > >Chris,
                                    > > >
                                    > > > One of my local places can get the Starrett powered hacksaw blades 10 and 14 TPI which are a fair amount coarser than the ones I'm using now. I think that's a good thing, but what are your recommendations, say aluminum, on one hand, and steel on the other? I am currently cutting straight at better than 20 thousandths over two inches, what should I expect with the Starrett? The comment about the side on which to mount the blade is something that never occurred to me. I replaced it the way I found it. Seems to me that the way your suggesting might place the blade more centered beneath the reciprocating assembly and that likely would be a good thing. On the other hand, the way it is now I can shift the cut out by 1/4" and, on occasion, that's handy. My thinking on the nut and bolt arrangement was that the head of the stainless steel bolt (a wide, button style head) had a large surface area to hold the blade from shifting and thereby not cutting
                                    > straight.
                                    > > The pins were almost acting like bearings and allowing the blade to wobble (that may be more the result of condition as opposed to a problem with the design).
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Thanks again for all your wonderful advice!
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Bill
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >  
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Bob and Bill,
                                    > > > > I replied to your earlier messages but evidently you didn't see or read my comments. That PDF is already in the file section of this group and has been there since '07
                                    > > > > Bill, the hand hacksaw blade you currently have in that saw will not last nor will it cut straight. Search for and buy a power hacksaw blade. The nut and bolt arraignment will work but not as well as the original setup. That was roll pins that are slightly angled away from each other. BTW, the blade should be on the vise side of the blade mounts.
                                    > > > > HTH,
                                    > > > > Chris
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >

                                  • William Warne
                                    Chris,   Two quick questions.  1.  What is the best angle to set the pin?  2.  What are your thoughts regarding the diameter of the pin, assuming we re
                                    Message 18 of 23 , Feb 14, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Chris,
                                       
                                      Two quick questions.  1.  What is the best angle to set the pin?  2.  What are your thoughts regarding the diameter of the pin, assuming we're talking about the Starrett blade?
                                       
                                      Thanks in advance,
                                       
                                      Bill

                                      --- On Thu, 2/14/13, William Warne <williamwarne@...> wrote:

                                      From: William Warne <williamwarne@...>
                                      Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
                                      To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Thursday, February 14, 2013, 4:52 AM

                                       
                                      Thanks Chris,
                                       
                                      I'm starting to see what you're saying although I can't quite fully visualize it in my mind yet.  There are a lot of concepts I'm still learning.  But that's the exciting part of life.  We don't have to stop learning.  My biggest problem now is space.  And I'm starting to want everything I see.  Machine work is becoming my "drug" of choice!  :)  Your suggestion is on my project list!

                                      --- On Wed, 2/13/13, Chris <chris_peterson@...> wrote:

                                      From: Chris <chris_peterson@...>
                                      Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
                                      To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 5:30 PM

                                       
                                      Bill,
                                      Think about it. The blade must be under tension to work properly and cut straight. If you nut and bolt it tight enough to hold the blade then you will have trouble applying the correct tension. If you leave the bolts slightly loose they will bow inwards once you tension the blade. Not conducive to a straight cut. I've been where you are. I once was a blade bolter. I learned. The hard way. I'm trying to save you a ride on the learning curve. Make some new blocks with pins and save the old blocks for your nut/bolt/hand hacksaw blade setup. I'd bet money once you use the pins and that Starett blade you won't use the old rig.
                                      Just my $.02
                                      Chris

                                      --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, William Warne wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Chris,
                                      >  
                                      > Sorry, rough day trying to negotiate common sense with the crazies while re-assuring another party that his world isn't really going to end.  I feel the need to cut metal!  Anyway, I would have gotten back to you more quickly had the day gone differently. 
                                      >  
                                      > You've given a lot of good advice.  But I would have to re-angle the hole and put in a larger pin and the smaller pin does have the advantage of being able to use regular blades.  I always like things that use easily obtainable parts -- regular "off the shelf" batteries instead of hard to get special ones, for example.
                                      >  
                                      > So, just speculating, if the issue is strength of the bolt and the likelihood of fatigue, what if I used a more resilient material, say Titanium?  The surplus place where I generally buy my aluminum sells all sorts of exotic metals.  Just speculating.  And, though I'm not saying that it isn't so (I recognize that I have much to learn), it's not clear to me why a hook would be any more secure than a bolt (quality of the metal aside).  On the other hand, it is clear to me that a "hook" would allow quicker and easier blade changes.
                                      >  
                                      > I really like the idea of decreasing the TPI by the use of the heavier blades.  There won't be a problem with too few teeth because I use the saw to cut larger size stock (say 2x2 and such).  I can almost see the chips in my mind's eye (a lot nicer than the small ones I get with the regular blade which I believe is 18 TPI).
                                      >  
                                      > Thanks again for all of your advice,
                                      >  
                                      > Bill
                                      >
                                      > --- On Wed, 2/13/13, Chris wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > From: Chris
                                      > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
                                      > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 3:39 PM
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >  
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Bill,
                                      > Read my reply about blade tpi. I talk about the retaining pins and how they are angled. That's why I told you to ditch the bolts and use roll pins. Doesn't matter if they are too small since they are angled.
                                      > Chris
                                      >
                                      > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, William Warne wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Chris,
                                      > >  
                                      > > I ran into a snag.  I picked up the Starrett blades yesterday and was excited to try one.  The blades are the right length, 12", but the holes are very much larger than the bolts I was using (which were slightly larger than the pins).  The regular blade hole size is roughly 1/8" (and very close to the pin size); the Starrett measures .3294.  If I bore a .3294 hole in the "frame" I'm afraid I'll greatly weaken its integrity, so whether I use a pin or a bolt I think I will need to "step" it so that it has a small diameter for the frame, but a larger diameter for the blade.  Got to admit though, the heavier and taller red and yellow blade looks awfully nice.
                                      > >
                                      > > Bill
                                      > > --- On Wed, 2/13/13, Chris wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > From: Chris
                                      > > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
                                      > > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 4:58 AM
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >  
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Bill,
                                      > > The blade TPI is picked based on what thickness material you are planning to cut. This would apply to bandsaw blades as well as power hacksaw blades. The rule of thumb is a minimum of 3 teeth in the work. I've heard that quoted as high as 4 and as low as 2 but nobody ever told me why. Here's why you need at least 3 teeth in your work. Let's say you have a 2 tpi blade. That's 2 teeth in 1 inch or 1 every half inch. Say I want to cut a piece of 1/4" steel. If I'm lucky, when I put my saw frame down to cut, a tooth may be resting on the stock I want to cut. As soon as I move the saw the saw blade will drop in between the teeth onto the stock and the next tooth will ram into the work. One of two things will happen; the saw itself will stop or the tooth will be sheared off of the blade. Thus, the blade TPI must be chosen so that at least 3 teeth are in the stock, in other words, the 3 teeth support the blade. Two tricks to cut that 1/4" with a 2 TPI blade (
                                      > > if that's the only blade you have ). Lay the stock down so you are cutting the width, not the thickness. Another method is to clamp a piece of wood or waste aluminum stock to your piece to support the blade. You would end up cutting both at the same time. Watch cutting items such as I beams or angle iron. You have to consider the cross section and what will be supporting your blade teeth.Based on the above you can cut .300" or above with the 10 TPI blade and .214" or above with the 14 tpi. Just take 3/TPI to figure your minimum thickness. Now, I know what your next question will be - why not use a 50 tpi blade for everything? If you are cutting thick stock there is nowhere for the chips to go on a high TPI blade. Not as bad on a bandsaw but not good on a hacksaw. Plus each tooth is smaller and removes less material and gets full of swarf quicker. The lower the TPI the faster the cut (in most cases).
                                      > > The blades that you are looking at are 2 or 3 times thicker than a hand hacksaw blade and wider. Those bolts won't last long. The roll pins are hardened. The reason the blade goes on the vice side is that the roll pin retainer holes are angled. If you stand square to the blade, on the side of the saw opposite from the vise, and look straight down the roll pins would form a V ( a rather large one) if you drew lines through the middle of the roll pins. The point of the V would points towards you and the open end of the V would point towards the vise. Thus you must put the blade on the vise side so that when you tension the blade it pulls it into the retainer blocks. If your roll pin holes are wallowed out just drill them to the next larger size. Just remember to angle the holes slightly away from square.
                                      > > A good power hacksaw blade, properly tensioned, will amaze you with how square it can cut- just make sure the fixed jaw on the vise is square to your blade.
                                      > > HTH,
                                      > > CHris
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "William Warne" wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > > --- On Sat, 2/9/13, Chris wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > From: Chris
                                      > > > > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
                                      > > > > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > > Date: Saturday, February 9, 2013, 5:42 AM
                                      > > > >Chris,
                                      > > >
                                      > > > One of my local places can get the Starrett powered hacksaw blades 10 and 14 TPI which are a fair amount coarser than the ones I'm using now. I think that's a good thing, but what are your recommendations, say aluminum, on one hand, and steel on the other? I am currently cutting straight at better than 20 thousandths over two inches, what should I expect with the Starrett? The comment about the side on which to mount the blade is something that never occurred to me. I replaced it the way I found it. Seems to me that the way your suggesting might place the blade more centered beneath the reciprocating assembly and that likely would be a good thing. On the other hand, the way it is now I can shift the cut out by 1/4" and, on occasion, that's handy. My thinking on the nut and bolt arrangement was that the head of the stainless steel bolt (a wide, button style head) had a large surface area to hold the blade from shifting and thereby not cutting
                                      > straight.
                                      > > The pins were almost acting like bearings and allowing the blade to wobble (that may be more the result of condition as opposed to a problem with the design).
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Thanks again for all your wonderful advice!
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Bill
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >  
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Bob and Bill,
                                      > > > > I replied to your earlier messages but evidently you didn't see or read my comments. That PDF is already in the file section of this group and has been there since '07
                                      > > > > Bill, the hand hacksaw blade you currently have in that saw will not last nor will it cut straight. Search for and buy a power hacksaw blade. The nut and bolt arraignment will work but not as well as the original setup. That was roll pins that are slightly angled away from each other. BTW, the blade should be on the vise side of the blade mounts.
                                      > > > > HTH,
                                      > > > > Chris
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >

                                    • Chris
                                      Bill, The roll pin size is listed in the manual that you have. Look in the parts listing. Angle, I have no clue. If I get a chance this weekend I ll see if I
                                      Message 19 of 23 , Feb 15, 2013
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Bill,
                                        The roll pin size is listed in the manual that you have. Look in the parts listing. Angle, I have no clue. If I get a chance this weekend I'll see if I can get a protractor on mine.
                                        Chris

                                        --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, William Warne <williamwarne@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Chris,
                                        >  
                                        > Two quick questions.  1.  What is the best angle to set the pin?  2.  What are your thoughts regarding the diameter of the pin, assuming we're talking about the Starrett blade?
                                        >  
                                        > Thanks in advance,
                                        >  
                                        > Bill
                                        >
                                        > --- On Thu, 2/14/13, William Warne <williamwarne@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > From: William Warne <williamwarne@...>
                                        > Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
                                        > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Date: Thursday, February 14, 2013, 4:52 AM
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >  
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Thanks Chris,
                                        >  
                                        > I'm starting to see what you're saying although I can't quite fully visualize it in my mind yet.  There are a lot of concepts I'm still learning.  But that's the exciting part of life.  We don't have to stop learning.  My biggest problem now is space.  And I'm starting to want everything I see.  Machine work is becoming my "drug" of choice!  :)  Your suggestion is on my project list!
                                        >
                                        > --- On Wed, 2/13/13, Chris <chris_peterson@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > From: Chris <chris_peterson@...>
                                        > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
                                        > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 5:30 PM
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >  
                                        >
                                        > Bill,
                                        > Think about it. The blade must be under tension to work properly and cut straight. If you nut and bolt it tight enough to hold the blade then you will have trouble applying the correct tension. If you leave the bolts slightly loose they will bow inwards once you tension the blade. Not conducive to a straight cut. I've been where you are. I once was a blade bolter. I learned. The hard way. I'm trying to save you a ride on the learning curve. Make some new blocks with pins and save the old blocks for your nut/bolt/hand hacksaw blade setup. I'd bet money once you use the pins and that Starett blade you won't use the old rig.
                                        > Just my $.02
                                        > Chris
                                        >
                                        > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, William Warne wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Chris,
                                        > >  
                                        > > Sorry, rough day trying to negotiate common sense with the crazies while re-assuring another party that his world isn't really going to end.  I feel the need to cut metal!  Anyway, I would have gotten back to you more quickly had the day gone differently. 
                                        > >  
                                        > > You've given a lot of good advice.  But I would have to re-angle the hole and put in a larger pin and the smaller pin does have the advantage of being able to use regular blades.  I always like things that use easily obtainable parts -- regular "off the shelf" batteries instead of hard to get special ones, for example.
                                        > >  
                                        > > So, just speculating, if the issue is strength of the bolt and the likelihood of fatigue, what if I used a more resilient material, say Titanium?  The surplus place where I generally buy my aluminum sells all sorts of exotic metals.  Just speculating.  And, though I'm not saying that it isn't so (I recognize that I have much to learn), it's not clear to me why a hook would be any more secure than a bolt (quality of the metal aside).  On the other hand, it is clear to me that a "hook" would allow quicker and easier blade changes.
                                        > >  
                                        > > I really like the idea of decreasing the TPI by the use of the heavier blades.  There won't be a problem with too few teeth because I use the saw to cut larger size stock (say 2x2 and such).  I can almost see the chips in my mind's eye (a lot nicer than the small ones I get with the regular blade which I believe is 18 TPI).
                                        > >  
                                        > > Thanks again for all of your advice,
                                        > >  
                                        > > Bill
                                        > >
                                        > > --- On Wed, 2/13/13, Chris wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > From: Chris
                                        > > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
                                        > > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 3:39 PM
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >  
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Bill,
                                        > > Read my reply about blade tpi. I talk about the retaining pins and how they are angled. That's why I told you to ditch the bolts and use roll pins. Doesn't matter if they are too small since they are angled.
                                        > > Chris
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, William Warne wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Chris,
                                        > > >  
                                        > > > I ran into a snag.  I picked up the Starrett blades yesterday and was excited to try one.  The blades are the right length, 12", but the holes are very much larger than the bolts I was using (which were slightly larger than the pins).  The regular blade hole size is roughly 1/8" (and very close to the pin size); the Starrett measures .3294.  If I bore a .3294 hole in the "frame" I'm afraid I'll greatly weaken its integrity, so whether I use a pin or a bolt I think I will need to "step" it so that it has a small diameter for the frame, but a larger diameter for the blade.  Got to admit though, the heavier and taller red and yellow blade looks awfully nice.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Bill
                                        > > > --- On Wed, 2/13/13, Chris wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > From: Chris
                                        > > > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
                                        > > > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 4:58 AM
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >  
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Bill,
                                        > > > The blade TPI is picked based on what thickness material you are planning to cut. This would apply to bandsaw blades as well as power hacksaw blades. The rule of thumb is a minimum of 3 teeth in the work. I've heard that quoted as high as 4 and as low as 2 but nobody ever told me why. Here's why you need at least 3 teeth in your work. Let's say you have a 2 tpi blade. That's 2 teeth in 1 inch or 1 every half inch. Say I want to cut a piece of 1/4" steel. If I'm lucky, when I put my saw frame down to cut, a tooth may be resting on the stock I want to cut. As soon as I move the saw the saw blade will drop in between the teeth onto the stock and the next tooth will ram into the work. One of two things will happen; the saw itself will stop or the tooth will be sheared off of the blade. Thus, the blade TPI must be chosen so that at least 3 teeth are in the stock, in other words, the 3 teeth support the blade. Two tricks to cut that 1/4" with a 2 TPI blade
                                        > (
                                        > > > if that's the only blade you have ). Lay the stock down so you are cutting the width, not the thickness. Another method is to clamp a piece of wood or waste aluminum stock to your piece to support the blade. You would end up cutting both at the same time. Watch cutting items such as I beams or angle iron. You have to consider the cross section and what will be supporting your blade teeth.Based on the above you can cut .300" or above with the 10 TPI blade and .214" or above with the 14 tpi. Just take 3/TPI to figure your minimum thickness. Now, I know what your next question will be - why not use a 50 tpi blade for everything? If you are cutting thick stock there is nowhere for the chips to go on a high TPI blade. Not as bad on a bandsaw but not good on a hacksaw. Plus each tooth is smaller and removes less material and gets full of swarf quicker. The lower the TPI the faster the cut (in most cases).
                                        > > > The blades that you are looking at are 2 or 3 times thicker than a hand hacksaw blade and wider. Those bolts won't last long. The roll pins are hardened. The reason the blade goes on the vice side is that the roll pin retainer holes are angled. If you stand square to the blade, on the side of the saw opposite from the vise, and look straight down the roll pins would form a V ( a rather large one) if you drew lines through the middle of the roll pins. The point of the V would points towards you and the open end of the V would point towards the vise. Thus you must put the blade on the vise side so that when you tension the blade it pulls it into the retainer blocks. If your roll pin holes are wallowed out just drill them to the next larger size. Just remember to angle the holes slightly away from square.
                                        > > > A good power hacksaw blade, properly tensioned, will amaze you with how square it can cut- just make sure the fixed jaw on the vise is square to your blade.
                                        > > > HTH,
                                        > > > CHris
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "William Warne" wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > > --- On Sat, 2/9/13, Chris wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > From: Chris
                                        > > > > > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Atlas-Clausing (Sears) Powered Hacksaw
                                        > > > > > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > > > Date: Saturday, February 9, 2013, 5:42 AM
                                        > > > > >Chris,
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > One of my local places can get the Starrett powered hacksaw blades 10 and 14 TPI which are a fair amount coarser than the ones I'm using now. I think that's a good thing, but what are your recommendations, say aluminum, on one hand, and steel on the other? I am currently cutting straight at better than 20 thousandths over two inches, what should I expect with the Starrett? The comment about the side on which to mount the blade is something that never occurred to me. I replaced it the way I found it. Seems to me that the way your suggesting might place the blade more centered beneath the reciprocating assembly and that likely would be a good thing. On the other hand, the way it is now I can shift the cut out by 1/4" and, on occasion, that's handy. My thinking on the nut and bolt arrangement was that the head of the stainless steel bolt (a wide, button style head) had a large surface area to hold the blade from shifting and thereby not cutting
                                        > > straight.
                                        > > > The pins were almost acting like bearings and allowing the blade to wobble (that may be more the result of condition as opposed to a problem with the design).
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Thanks again for all your wonderful advice!
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Bill
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Bob and Bill,
                                        > > > > > I replied to your earlier messages but evidently you didn't see or read my comments. That PDF is already in the file section of this group and has been there since '07
                                        > > > > > Bill, the hand hacksaw blade you currently have in that saw will not last nor will it cut straight. Search for and buy a power hacksaw blade. The nut and bolt arraignment will work but not as well as the original setup. That was roll pins that are slightly angled away from each other. BTW, the blade should be on the vise side of the blade mounts.
                                        > > > > > HTH,
                                        > > > > > Chris
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
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