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Electronic Threading Gear Box

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  • falcon52@verizon.net
    I bought a Atlas 10F missing the reverse box and all the thread gears It had poured bearings so being UN-informed I bought a Temkin headstock which turned out
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 4, 2011
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      I bought a Atlas 10F missing the reverse box and all the thread gears
      It had poured bearings so being UN-informed I bought a Temkin headstock which turned out to have all the bearings shot, But the seller say he will make good on the deal.. Had I known better I would have bought the craftsman headstock with the reverse lever.. And modded it to work on the 10F..

      Anyways Being a retired Industrial Controls Tech, I decided instead of spending a fortune buying all the missing feed parts.. I am designing a micro-controller controlled stepper motor driven threading feed unit.. Actually it was much simpler than I thought it would be, And can do both inch and metric.. The only problem I'm having is finding a rotary incremental encoder that that has 2000 pulse per revolution or more and can work at 320khz for a max spindle rpm of 2400.. Most encoders are limited to 200khz which in my design would limit the spindle to 1500 rpm... Not that I would thread at 2400 rpm, but the unit has to provide normal turning feeds also..

      The system is simple the encoder is driven 4 time spindle rpm and puts out 8000 pulse per rev which is fed to a divide by any number between 0 and 9999 IC, Which pulses the stepper motor driver.. A home switch and a 1 pulse per spindle rev index pulse sets the thread start point, Which the MCU controls, It also programs the divider to produce the individual thread pitches..

      Any Techies in this group know where I can get a 320khz capable encoder without going broke.. A higher pulse per rev reduces the overdrive needed to the encoder but max encoder frequency is the rpm limiting factor.. Anyone have any interest in this comments are Welcome..

      And before you say it yes I could do this with Mach3 or EMC and a CNC interface.. But in this case I just like the challenge of building a Electronic Gear Box
    • Kay Davis
      Good Morning, Having a Clausing 102 missing all the change gears this is of some interest to me. Can I ask that once the project is complete that you post the
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 4, 2011
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        Good Morning,



        Having a Clausing 102 missing all the change gears this is of some
        interest to me. Can I ask that once the project is complete that you post
        the details in the files section?



        Kay



        From: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of falcon52@...
        Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2011 5:08 AM
        To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Electronic Threading Gear Box





        I bought a Atlas 10F missing the reverse box and all the thread gears
        It had poured bearings so being UN-informed I bought a Temkin headstock
        which turned out to have all the bearings shot, But the seller say he will
        make good on the deal.. Had I known better I would have bought the craftsman
        headstock with the reverse lever.. And modded it to work on the 10F..

        Anyways Being a retired Industrial Controls Tech, I decided instead of
        spending a fortune buying all the missing feed parts.. I am designing a
        micro-controller controlled stepper motor driven threading feed unit..
        Actually it was much simpler than I thought it would be, And can do both
        inch and metric.. The only problem I'm having is finding a rotary
        incremental encoder that that has 2000 pulse per revolution or more and can
        work at 320khz for a max spindle rpm of 2400.. Most encoders are limited to
        200khz which in my design would limit the spindle to 1500 rpm... Not that I
        would thread at 2400 rpm, but the unit has to provide normal turning feeds
        also..

        The system is simple the encoder is driven 4 time spindle rpm and puts out
        8000 pulse per rev which is fed to a divide by any number between 0 and 9999
        IC, Which pulses the stepper motor driver.. A home switch and a 1 pulse per
        spindle rev index pulse sets the thread start point, Which the MCU controls,
        It also programs the divider to produce the individual thread pitches..

        Any Techies in this group know where I can get a 320khz capable encoder
        without going broke.. A higher pulse per rev reduces the overdrive needed to
        the encoder but max encoder frequency is the rpm limiting factor.. Anyone
        have any interest in this comments are Welcome..

        And before you say it yes I could do this with Mach3 or EMC and a CNC
        interface.. But in this case I just like the challenge of building a
        Electronic Gear Box





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Chuck
        Mouser carries these:
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 4, 2011
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          Mouser carries these:

          <http://www.avagotech.com/docs/AV02-1132EN>
          <http://www.mouser.com/Electromechanical/Encoders/_/N-39xfc?P=1z0x0r6&Keyword=rotary+encoder&Ns=Pricing%7c1&FS=True>

          that will go up to 20,000 CPR, But do you really need that resolution? Are you taking pulses off the spindle or motor?

          You might also be able to use another stepper as an encoder. -Chuck-





          On Dec 4, 2011, at 7:53 AM, Kay Davis wrote:

          > Good Morning,
          >
          >
          >
          > Having a Clausing 102 missing all the change gears this is of some
          > interest to me. Can I ask that once the project is complete that you post
          > the details in the files section?
          >
          >
          >
          > Kay
          >
          >
          >
          > From: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of falcon52@...
          > Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2011 5:08 AM
          > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Electronic Threading Gear Box
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I bought a Atlas 10F missing the reverse box and all the thread gears
          > It had poured bearings so being UN-informed I bought a Temkin headstock
          > which turned out to have all the bearings shot, But the seller say he will
          > make good on the deal.. Had I known better I would have bought the craftsman
          > headstock with the reverse lever.. And modded it to work on the 10F..
          >
          > Anyways Being a retired Industrial Controls Tech, I decided instead of
          > spending a fortune buying all the missing feed parts.. I am designing a
          > micro-controller controlled stepper motor driven threading feed unit..
          > Actually it was much simpler than I thought it would be, And can do both
          > inch and metric.. The only problem I'm having is finding a rotary
          > incremental encoder that that has 2000 pulse per revolution or more and can
          > work at 320khz for a max spindle rpm of 2400.. Most encoders are limited to
          > 200khz which in my design would limit the spindle to 1500 rpm... Not that I
          > would thread at 2400 rpm, but the unit has to provide normal turning feeds
          > also..
          >
          > The system is simple the encoder is driven 4 time spindle rpm and puts out
          > 8000 pulse per rev which is fed to a divide by any number between 0 and 9999
          > IC, Which pulses the stepper motor driver.. A home switch and a 1 pulse per
          > spindle rev index pulse sets the thread start point, Which the MCU controls,
          > It also programs the divider to produce the individual thread pitches..
          >
          > Any Techies in this group know where I can get a 320khz capable encoder
          > without going broke.. A higher pulse per rev reduces the overdrive needed to
          > the encoder but max encoder frequency is the rpm limiting factor.. Anyone
          > have any interest in this comments are Welcome..
          >
          > And before you say it yes I could do this with Mach3 or EMC and a CNC
          > interface.. But in this case I just like the challenge of building a
          > Electronic Gear Box
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
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          > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
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          >
          > Atlas-Craftsman Projects list is at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman_projects/
          >
          > To see or edit your personal settings, view the photos, files or links http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/
          >
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          > Please submit things you think will be useful to Jon Elson at mailto://elson@...! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Scott Henion
          ... I don t see why you need such spindle resolution. The ELS ( http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/ ) only has one pule per revolution. More info in the ELS yagoo
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 4, 2011
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            On 12/4/2011 5:08 AM, falcon52@... wrote:
            > The system is simple the encoder is driven 4 time spindle rpm and puts out 8000 pulse per rev which is fed to a divide by any number between 0 and 9999 IC, Which pulses the stepper motor driver.. A home switch and a 1 pulse per spindle rev index pulse sets the thread start point, Which the MCU controls, It also programs the divider to produce the individual thread pitches..
            >
            > Any Techies in this group know where I can get a 320khz capable encoder without going broke.. A higher pulse per rev reduces the overdrive needed to the encoder but max encoder frequency is the rpm limiting factor.. Anyone have any interest in this comments are Welcome..
            >
            > And before you say it yes I could do this with Mach3 or EMC and a CNC interface.. But in this case I just like the challenge of building a Electronic Gear Box
            >

            I don't see why you need such spindle resolution.

            The ELS ( http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/ ) only has one pule per
            revolution. More info in the ELS yagoo group:

            http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/E-LeadScrew/


            --

            ------------------------------------
            Scott G. Henion
            Craftsman 12x36 lathe:
            http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36
            ------------------------------------
          • n2irz
            Reconsider the problem: You do not need precisely synchronized spindle-to-leadscrew motion at 2400 RPM, only when threading. That is, does it matter if the
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 4, 2011
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              Reconsider the problem: You do not need precisely synchronized spindle-to-leadscrew motion at 2400 RPM, only when threading. That is, does it matter if the leadscrew feed is 0.001" or 0.00101" per spindle revolution for turning? Or that it might vary by a few percent during the cut if he spindle slows down?

              If you promise to cut threads at less than 1500 RPM you should be good. At higher speeds, run the leadscrew open loop at some calculated rate and be happy.

              That being said, is 2000 PPR overkill? I'd think that half that is already too much data.

              Don

              PS: Poured babbitt bearings can give better performance than roller bearings. I use the lathe lightly - a few times a month so longevity isn't an issue, and much of my work is at lower spindle speeds but to tight tolerances, so aside from the increased oiling requirements, babbitt is superior for me.

              --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "falcon52@..." <falcon52@...> wrote:
              >
              > I bought a Atlas 10F missing the reverse box and all the thread gears
              > It had poured bearings

              >The only problem I'm having is finding a rotary incremental encoder that that has 2000 pulse per revolution or more and can work at 320khz for a max spindle rpm of 2400.. Most encoders are limited to 200khz which in my design would limit the spindle to 1500 rpm... Not that I would thread at 2400 rpm, but the unit has to provide normal turning feeds also..
            • Ahz
              ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 4, 2011
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                On Dec 4, 2011, at 10:54 AM, Tony Ennis wrote:

                > Babbitt is cheap and allows for very precise bearings. In a properly maintained, adjusted, and oiled lathe, the Babbitt material never comes in contact with the spindle and thus it doesn't wear. The reason there's no contact is that the Babbitt allows for an oil film to form between it and the spindle. The Babbitt bearings in my 1937 Atlas/Craftsman are still decent enough to use though abuse is evident.
                >
                > On Dec 4, 2011, at 10:40 AM, n2irz wrote:
                >>
                >> PS: Poured babbitt bearings can give better performance than roller bearings. I use the lathe lightly - a few times a month so longevity isn't an issue, and much of my work is at lower spindle speeds but to tight tolerances, so aside from the increased oiling requirements, babbitt is superior for me.
                >>
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • falcon52@verizon.net
                In Answer to I don t see why you need such spindle resolution. This Design uses a PIC MCU it does not have the power of a PC nor can it do floating point
                Message 7 of 15 , Dec 4, 2011
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                  In Answer to > I don't see why you need such spindle resolution.

                  This Design uses a PIC MCU it does not have the power of a PC nor can it do floating point math, And only cost $10, It could never do all the calculations needed to account for spindle speed variations from a single index pulse off the spindle..

                  So in order to get around the shortcomings of the PIC, We take a very high encoder frequency and divide it down to different clock frequency's to directly step the stepper motor.. All the PIC Microchip has to do is load the proper divide by number into the counter chip for a given feed or thread and it does all the work .. The PIC now only has to gate the output of the counter on or off in time with the Index Pulse and monitor the Limit switches which will be optical to avoid contact bounce.. Spindle variations are automatically transferred to the stepper so the threads will be exactly the same as if a geared feed were used, Thus the term Electronic Gear Box.. But unlike a gear change atlas It has almost infinite gear ratios and can be changed in seconds.. Each step of the stepper motor moves the carriage 0.00025 of a inch and there are 9999 gear ratios available, Although many are out of the useful range like 1/4 or 1/8th thread per inch.. Might be good for making a barber poll..

                  --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, Scott Henion <shenion@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > On 12/4/2011 5:08 AM, falcon52@... wrote:
                  > > The system is simple the encoder is driven 4 time spindle rpm and puts out 8000 pulse per rev which is fed to a divide by any number between 0 and 9999 IC, Which pulses the stepper motor driver.. A home switch and a 1 pulse per spindle rev index pulse sets the thread start point, Which the MCU controls, It also programs the divider to produce the individual thread pitches..
                  > >
                  > > Any Techies in this group know where I can get a 320khz capable encoder without going broke.. A higher pulse per rev reduces the overdrive needed to the encoder but max encoder frequency is the rpm limiting factor.. Anyone have any interest in this comments are Welcome..
                  > >
                  > > And before you say it yes I could do this with Mach3 or EMC and a CNC interface.. But in this case I just like the challenge of building a Electronic Gear Box
                  > >
                  >
                  > I don't see why you need such spindle resolution.
                  >
                  > The ELS ( http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/ ) only has one pule per
                  > revolution. More info in the ELS yagoo group:
                  >
                  > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/E-LeadScrew/
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  > Scott G. Henion
                  > Craftsman 12x36 lathe:
                  > http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                • rlstrand
                  You should take a cloder look at the ELS project http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/ it is based on a PIC micro (not a PC). They seem to be able to get by with
                  Message 8 of 15 , Dec 5, 2011
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                    You should take a cloder look at the ELS project http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/ it is based on a PIC micro (not a PC). They seem to be able to get by with one pulse per spindle revolution. You may even be able to reuse most of the code from the project.


                    --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "falcon52@..." <falcon52@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > In Answer to > I don't see why you need such spindle resolution.
                    >
                    > This Design uses a PIC MCU it does not have the power of a PC nor can it do floating point math, And only cost $10, It could never do all the calculations needed to account for spindle speed variations from a single index pulse off the spindle..
                    >
                    > So in order to get around the shortcomings of the PIC, We take a very high encoder frequency and divide it down to different clock frequency's to directly step the stepper motor.. All the PIC Microchip has to do is load the proper divide by number into the counter chip for a given feed or thread and it does all the work .. The PIC now only has to gate the output of the counter on or off in time with the Index Pulse and monitor the Limit switches which will be optical to avoid contact bounce.. Spindle variations are automatically transferred to the stepper so the threads will be exactly the same as if a geared feed were used, Thus the term Electronic Gear Box.. But unlike a gear change atlas It has almost infinite gear ratios and can be changed in seconds.. Each step of the stepper motor moves the carriage 0.00025 of a inch and there are 9999 gear ratios available, Although many are out of the useful range like 1/4 or 1/8th thread per inch.. Might be good for making a barber poll..
                    >
                    > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, Scott Henion <shenion@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > On 12/4/2011 5:08 AM, falcon52@ wrote:
                    > > > The system is simple the encoder is driven 4 time spindle rpm and puts out 8000 pulse per rev which is fed to a divide by any number between 0 and 9999 IC, Which pulses the stepper motor driver.. A home switch and a 1 pulse per spindle rev index pulse sets the thread start point, Which the MCU controls, It also programs the divider to produce the individual thread pitches..
                    > > >
                    > > > Any Techies in this group know where I can get a 320khz capable encoder without going broke.. A higher pulse per rev reduces the overdrive needed to the encoder but max encoder frequency is the rpm limiting factor.. Anyone have any interest in this comments are Welcome..
                    > > >
                    > > > And before you say it yes I could do this with Mach3 or EMC and a CNC interface.. But in this case I just like the challenge of building a Electronic Gear Box
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > > I don't see why you need such spindle resolution.
                    > >
                    > > The ELS ( http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/ ) only has one pule per
                    > > revolution. More info in the ELS yagoo group:
                    > >
                    > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/E-LeadScrew/
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------
                    > > Scott G. Henion
                    > > Craftsman 12x36 lathe:
                    > > http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36
                    > > ------------------------------------
                    > >
                    >
                  • falcon52@verizon.net
                    I looked at the ELS Project and it uses a home made encoder.. Its not one pulse per revolution it has 2 pulse inputs a one pulse index and another of what
                    Message 9 of 15 , Dec 5, 2011
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                      I looked at the ELS Project and it uses a home made encoder.. Its not one pulse per revolution it has 2 pulse inputs a one pulse index and another of what looks like a 100 pulse per rev input.. It uses the PIC timer functions and generates the stepper pulses in the PIC.. And operates on the very edge of what the MCU is capable of... I went to the original authors site.. And in his Words He says: "Don't Bother Building It", And He is currently banned from the ELS yahoo website that is touting his project.. His design although works is very limited in accuracy because it tries to do all the functions in the PIC MCU and is thus limited by the processor's short comings... The ELS Project if moved to a PIC32 or ARM7 processor would be Quite Impressive but in its current form its a thumbs down...

                      --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "rlstrand" <rlstrand@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > You should take a cloder look at the ELS project http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/ it is based on a PIC micro (not a PC). They seem to be able to get by with one pulse per spindle revolution. You may even be able to reuse most of the code from the project.
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "falcon52@" <falcon52@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > In Answer to > I don't see why you need such spindle resolution.
                      > >
                      > > This Design uses a PIC MCU it does not have the power of a PC nor can it do floating point math, And only cost $10, It could never do all the calculations needed to account for spindle speed variations from a single index pulse off the spindle..
                      > >
                      > > So in order to get around the shortcomings of the PIC, We take a very high encoder frequency and divide it down to different clock frequency's to directly step the stepper motor.. All the PIC Microchip has to do is load the proper divide by number into the counter chip for a given feed or thread and it does all the work .. The PIC now only has to gate the output of the counter on or off in time with the Index Pulse and monitor the Limit switches which will be optical to avoid contact bounce.. Spindle variations are automatically transferred to the stepper so the threads will be exactly the same as if a geared feed were used, Thus the term Electronic Gear Box.. But unlike a gear change atlas It has almost infinite gear ratios and can be changed in seconds.. Each step of the stepper motor moves the carriage 0.00025 of a inch and there are 9999 gear ratios available, Although many are out of the useful range like 1/4 or 1/8th thread per inch.. Might be good for making a barber poll..
                      > >
                      > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, Scott Henion <shenion@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > On 12/4/2011 5:08 AM, falcon52@ wrote:
                      > > > > The system is simple the encoder is driven 4 time spindle rpm and puts out 8000 pulse per rev which is fed to a divide by any number between 0 and 9999 IC, Which pulses the stepper motor driver.. A home switch and a 1 pulse per spindle rev index pulse sets the thread start point, Which the MCU controls, It also programs the divider to produce the individual thread pitches..
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Any Techies in this group know where I can get a 320khz capable encoder without going broke.. A higher pulse per rev reduces the overdrive needed to the encoder but max encoder frequency is the rpm limiting factor.. Anyone have any interest in this comments are Welcome..
                      > > > >
                      > > > > And before you say it yes I could do this with Mach3 or EMC and a CNC interface.. But in this case I just like the challenge of building a Electronic Gear Box
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > I don't see why you need such spindle resolution.
                      > > >
                      > > > The ELS ( http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/ ) only has one pule per
                      > > > revolution. More info in the ELS yagoo group:
                      > > >
                      > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/E-LeadScrew/
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --
                      > > >
                      > > > ------------------------------------
                      > > > Scott G. Henion
                      > > > Craftsman 12x36 lathe:
                      > > > http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36
                      > > > ------------------------------------
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Mark
                      Scott, I understand that you might prefer to have some headroom on your processor if you are doing it yourself. However, I can assure you the ELS works fine. I
                      Message 10 of 15 , Dec 6, 2011
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                        Scott,

                        I understand that you might prefer to have some headroom on your processor if you are doing it yourself. However, I can assure you the ELS works fine. I have it running on a Sherline lathe at a very fast spindle speed (no back gears on that lathe, only electronic controls). I would suspect that with the Atlas backgears, and a slower spindle speed it would be better as I will be able to take deeper cuts without stalling the motor.

                        My plan is to move it to my 618 Atlas in the future and don't see any inhibitors there. I have found the developer of this product (John Dammeyer) to be very helpful over the years and if somehow he has been banned from his own Yahoo group, I have to believe it was a mistake of some sort.

                        With that said, I have a lot of respect for anybody that wants to enjoy the experience of doing it themselves! I hope you will consider sharing the design and software with this group.

                        Regards,

                        Mark





                        --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "falcon52@..." <falcon52@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I looked at the ELS Project and it uses a home made encoder.. Its not one pulse per revolution it has 2 pulse inputs a one pulse index and another of what looks like a 100 pulse per rev input.. It uses the PIC timer functions and generates the stepper pulses in the PIC.. And operates on the very edge of what the MCU is capable of... I went to the original authors site.. And in his Words He says: "Don't Bother Building It", And He is currently banned from the ELS yahoo website that is touting his project.. His design although works is very limited in accuracy because it tries to do all the functions in the PIC MCU and is thus limited by the processor's short comings... The ELS Project if moved to a PIC32 or ARM7 processor would be Quite Impressive but in its current form its a thumbs down...
                        >
                        > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "rlstrand" <rlstrand@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > You should take a cloder look at the ELS project http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/ it is based on a PIC micro (not a PC). They seem to be able to get by with one pulse per spindle revolution. You may even be able to reuse most of the code from the project.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "falcon52@" <falcon52@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > In Answer to > I don't see why you need such spindle resolution.
                        > > >
                        > > > This Design uses a PIC MCU it does not have the power of a PC nor can it do floating point math, And only cost $10, It could never do all the calculations needed to account for spindle speed variations from a single index pulse off the spindle..
                        > > >
                        > > > So in order to get around the shortcomings of the PIC, We take a very high encoder frequency and divide it down to different clock frequency's to directly step the stepper motor.. All the PIC Microchip has to do is load the proper divide by number into the counter chip for a given feed or thread and it does all the work .. The PIC now only has to gate the output of the counter on or off in time with the Index Pulse and monitor the Limit switches which will be optical to avoid contact bounce.. Spindle variations are automatically transferred to the stepper so the threads will be exactly the same as if a geared feed were used, Thus the term Electronic Gear Box.. But unlike a gear change atlas It has almost infinite gear ratios and can be changed in seconds.. Each step of the stepper motor moves the carriage 0.00025 of a inch and there are 9999 gear ratios available, Although many are out of the useful range like 1/4 or 1/8th thread per inch.. Might be good for making a barber poll..
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, Scott Henion <shenion@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > On 12/4/2011 5:08 AM, falcon52@ wrote:
                        > > > > > The system is simple the encoder is driven 4 time spindle rpm and puts out 8000 pulse per rev which is fed to a divide by any number between 0 and 9999 IC, Which pulses the stepper motor driver.. A home switch and a 1 pulse per spindle rev index pulse sets the thread start point, Which the MCU controls, It also programs the divider to produce the individual thread pitches..
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Any Techies in this group know where I can get a 320khz capable encoder without going broke.. A higher pulse per rev reduces the overdrive needed to the encoder but max encoder frequency is the rpm limiting factor.. Anyone have any interest in this comments are Welcome..
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > And before you say it yes I could do this with Mach3 or EMC and a CNC interface.. But in this case I just like the challenge of building a Electronic Gear Box
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I don't see why you need such spindle resolution.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > The ELS ( http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/ ) only has one pule per
                        > > > > revolution. More info in the ELS yagoo group:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/E-LeadScrew/
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --
                        > > > >
                        > > > > ------------------------------------
                        > > > > Scott G. Henion
                        > > > > Craftsman 12x36 lathe:
                        > > > > http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36
                        > > > > ------------------------------------
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • Mark
                        I know it is bad form to reply to your own reply... ;-) But I couldn t figure out the comment that was made that the original owner was banned from the ELS
                        Message 11 of 15 , Dec 6, 2011
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                          I know it is bad form to reply to your own reply... ;-)

                          But I couldn't figure out the comment that was made that the original owner was "banned from the ELS Yahoo website". Perhaps we are dealing with "Moderator" vs "Owner" roles.

                          John Dammeyer is the *moderator* of the ELS Yahoo group and manufacturers the boards and kits that people buy. He is helpful and very generous with his time when people are trying to assemble or install their kits. As far as I know, he is not banned on any yahoo group. For people without the electronic skills to design their own, I highly recommend this path.

                          The *owner* of the group "Vaso Bovin". Quite frankly, I have not ever seen him on that list so I have no first hand knowledge of his banned or not banned status.

                          Mark


                          --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <mark2382@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Scott,
                          >
                          > I understand that you might prefer to have some headroom on your processor if you are doing it yourself. However, I can assure you the ELS works fine. I have it running on a Sherline lathe at a very fast spindle speed (no back gears on that lathe, only electronic controls). I would suspect that with the Atlas backgears, and a slower spindle speed it would be better as I will be able to take deeper cuts without stalling the motor.
                          >
                          > My plan is to move it to my 618 Atlas in the future and don't see any inhibitors there. I have found the developer of this product (John Dammeyer) to be very helpful over the years and if somehow he has been banned from his own Yahoo group, I have to believe it was a mistake of some sort.
                          >
                          > With that said, I have a lot of respect for anybody that wants to enjoy the experience of doing it themselves! I hope you will consider sharing the design and software with this group.
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          >
                          > Mark
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "falcon52@" <falcon52@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I looked at the ELS Project and it uses a home made encoder.. Its not one pulse per revolution it has 2 pulse inputs a one pulse index and another of what looks like a 100 pulse per rev input.. It uses the PIC timer functions and generates the stepper pulses in the PIC.. And operates on the very edge of what the MCU is capable of... I went to the original authors site.. And in his Words He says: "Don't Bother Building It", And He is currently banned from the ELS yahoo website that is touting his project.. His design although works is very limited in accuracy because it tries to do all the functions in the PIC MCU and is thus limited by the processor's short comings... The ELS Project if moved to a PIC32 or ARM7 processor would be Quite Impressive but in its current form its a thumbs down...
                          > >
                          > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "rlstrand" <rlstrand@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > You should take a cloder look at the ELS project http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/ it is based on a PIC micro (not a PC). They seem to be able to get by with one pulse per spindle revolution. You may even be able to reuse most of the code from the project.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "falcon52@" <falcon52@> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > In Answer to > I don't see why you need such spindle resolution.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > This Design uses a PIC MCU it does not have the power of a PC nor can it do floating point math, And only cost $10, It could never do all the calculations needed to account for spindle speed variations from a single index pulse off the spindle..
                          > > > >
                          > > > > So in order to get around the shortcomings of the PIC, We take a very high encoder frequency and divide it down to different clock frequency's to directly step the stepper motor.. All the PIC Microchip has to do is load the proper divide by number into the counter chip for a given feed or thread and it does all the work .. The PIC now only has to gate the output of the counter on or off in time with the Index Pulse and monitor the Limit switches which will be optical to avoid contact bounce.. Spindle variations are automatically transferred to the stepper so the threads will be exactly the same as if a geared feed were used, Thus the term Electronic Gear Box.. But unlike a gear change atlas It has almost infinite gear ratios and can be changed in seconds.. Each step of the stepper motor moves the carriage 0.00025 of a inch and there are 9999 gear ratios available, Although many are out of the useful range like 1/4 or 1/8th thread per inch.. Might be good for making a barber poll..
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, Scott Henion <shenion@> wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > On 12/4/2011 5:08 AM, falcon52@ wrote:
                          > > > > > > The system is simple the encoder is driven 4 time spindle rpm and puts out 8000 pulse per rev which is fed to a divide by any number between 0 and 9999 IC, Which pulses the stepper motor driver.. A home switch and a 1 pulse per spindle rev index pulse sets the thread start point, Which the MCU controls, It also programs the divider to produce the individual thread pitches..
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Any Techies in this group know where I can get a 320khz capable encoder without going broke.. A higher pulse per rev reduces the overdrive needed to the encoder but max encoder frequency is the rpm limiting factor.. Anyone have any interest in this comments are Welcome..
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > And before you say it yes I could do this with Mach3 or EMC and a CNC interface.. But in this case I just like the challenge of building a Electronic Gear Box
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > I don't see why you need such spindle resolution.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > The ELS ( http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/ ) only has one pule per
                          > > > > > revolution. More info in the ELS yagoo group:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/E-LeadScrew/
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > --
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > ------------------------------------
                          > > > > > Scott G. Henion
                          > > > > > Craftsman 12x36 lathe:
                          > > > > > http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36
                          > > > > > ------------------------------------
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • falcon52@verizon.net
                          As far as I know they are not the originators of the project, The original designer open sourced it and put it in the public domain and that yahoo group picked
                          Message 12 of 15 , Dec 6, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            As far as I know they are not the originators of the project, The original designer open sourced it and put it in the public domain and that yahoo group picked up on it and decided to make a product from it.. The original designer made it to prove a point.. And then hooked his lathe up to a computer running Mach3.. According to him he expressed his opinion of his own project on the ELS group and they banned him.. That's all I can tell you..

                            --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <mark2382@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I know it is bad form to reply to your own reply... ;-)
                            >
                            > But I couldn't figure out the comment that was made that the original owner was "banned from the ELS Yahoo website". Perhaps we are dealing with "Moderator" vs "Owner" roles.
                            >
                            > John Dammeyer is the *moderator* of the ELS Yahoo group and manufacturers the boards and kits that people buy. He is helpful and very generous with his time when people are trying to assemble or install their kits. As far as I know, he is not banned on any yahoo group. For people without the electronic skills to design their own, I highly recommend this path.
                            >
                            > The *owner* of the group "Vaso Bovin". Quite frankly, I have not ever seen him on that list so I have no first hand knowledge of his banned or not banned status.
                            >
                            > Mark
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <mark2382@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Scott,
                            > >
                            > > I understand that you might prefer to have some headroom on your processor if you are doing it yourself. However, I can assure you the ELS works fine. I have it running on a Sherline lathe at a very fast spindle speed (no back gears on that lathe, only electronic controls). I would suspect that with the Atlas backgears, and a slower spindle speed it would be better as I will be able to take deeper cuts without stalling the motor.
                            > >
                            > > My plan is to move it to my 618 Atlas in the future and don't see any inhibitors there. I have found the developer of this product (John Dammeyer) to be very helpful over the years and if somehow he has been banned from his own Yahoo group, I have to believe it was a mistake of some sort.
                            > >
                            > > With that said, I have a lot of respect for anybody that wants to enjoy the experience of doing it themselves! I hope you will consider sharing the design and software with this group.
                            > >
                            > > Regards,
                            > >
                            > > Mark
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "falcon52@" <falcon52@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > I looked at the ELS Project and it uses a home made encoder.. Its not one pulse per revolution it has 2 pulse inputs a one pulse index and another of what looks like a 100 pulse per rev input.. It uses the PIC timer functions and generates the stepper pulses in the PIC.. And operates on the very edge of what the MCU is capable of... I went to the original authors site.. And in his Words He says: "Don't Bother Building It", And He is currently banned from the ELS yahoo website that is touting his project.. His design although works is very limited in accuracy because it tries to do all the functions in the PIC MCU and is thus limited by the processor's short comings... The ELS Project if moved to a PIC32 or ARM7 processor would be Quite Impressive but in its current form its a thumbs down...
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "rlstrand" <rlstrand@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > You should take a cloder look at the ELS project http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/ it is based on a PIC micro (not a PC). They seem to be able to get by with one pulse per spindle revolution. You may even be able to reuse most of the code from the project.
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "falcon52@" <falcon52@> wrote:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > In Answer to > I don't see why you need such spindle resolution.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > This Design uses a PIC MCU it does not have the power of a PC nor can it do floating point math, And only cost $10, It could never do all the calculations needed to account for spindle speed variations from a single index pulse off the spindle..
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > So in order to get around the shortcomings of the PIC, We take a very high encoder frequency and divide it down to different clock frequency's to directly step the stepper motor.. All the PIC Microchip has to do is load the proper divide by number into the counter chip for a given feed or thread and it does all the work .. The PIC now only has to gate the output of the counter on or off in time with the Index Pulse and monitor the Limit switches which will be optical to avoid contact bounce.. Spindle variations are automatically transferred to the stepper so the threads will be exactly the same as if a geared feed were used, Thus the term Electronic Gear Box.. But unlike a gear change atlas It has almost infinite gear ratios and can be changed in seconds.. Each step of the stepper motor moves the carriage 0.00025 of a inch and there are 9999 gear ratios available, Although many are out of the useful range like 1/4 or 1/8th thread per inch.. Might be good for making a barber poll..
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, Scott Henion <shenion@> wrote:
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > On 12/4/2011 5:08 AM, falcon52@ wrote:
                            > > > > > > > The system is simple the encoder is driven 4 time spindle rpm and puts out 8000 pulse per rev which is fed to a divide by any number between 0 and 9999 IC, Which pulses the stepper motor driver.. A home switch and a 1 pulse per spindle rev index pulse sets the thread start point, Which the MCU controls, It also programs the divider to produce the individual thread pitches..
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > Any Techies in this group know where I can get a 320khz capable encoder without going broke.. A higher pulse per rev reduces the overdrive needed to the encoder but max encoder frequency is the rpm limiting factor.. Anyone have any interest in this comments are Welcome..
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > > And before you say it yes I could do this with Mach3 or EMC and a CNC interface.. But in this case I just like the challenge of building a Electronic Gear Box
                            > > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > I don't see why you need such spindle resolution.
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > The ELS ( http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/ ) only has one pule per
                            > > > > > > revolution. More info in the ELS yagoo group:
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/E-LeadScrew/
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > --
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > ------------------------------------
                            > > > > > > Scott G. Henion
                            > > > > > > Craftsman 12x36 lathe:
                            > > > > > > http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36
                            > > > > > > ------------------------------------
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • Rexarino
                            I think you have been misled. You have nothing to gain by belittling other s efforts... The Frog might have been the original design, but it is a long step
                            Message 13 of 15 , Dec 6, 2011
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I think you have been misled. You have nothing to gain by belittling
                              other's efforts...

                              The Frog might have been the original design, but it is a long step from
                              the Frog to the ELS. Although I wasn't in the group for the messages you
                              refer to, I have compared the Frog and the ELS, and I find them to be
                              different creatures.

                              AFAIK, John wrote the code that runs the ELS that John provides boards and
                              components for, at near cost - certainly not very profitable for a man that
                              makes his living writing code. He certainly isn't providing a product that
                              nets him much monetary return, especially as he has been sitting on some of
                              his board and component investment for some time, yet he provides support
                              for all the people that have built or are contemplating building one of
                              these units. The reports indicate that they work well.

                              Rex

                              On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 5:02 PM, falcon52@...
                              <falcon52@...>wrote:

                              > As far as I know they are not the originators of the project, The original
                              > designer open sourced it and put it in the public domain and that yahoo
                              > group picked up on it and decided to make a product from it.. The original
                              > designer made it to prove a point.. And then hooked his lathe up to a
                              > computer running Mach3.. According to him he expressed his opinion of his
                              > own project on the ELS group and they banned him.. That's all I can tell
                              > you..
                              >
                              > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <mark2382@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > I know it is bad form to reply to your own reply... ;-)
                              > >
                              > > But I couldn't figure out the comment that was made that the original
                              > owner was "banned from the ELS Yahoo website". Perhaps we are dealing with
                              > "Moderator" vs "Owner" roles.
                              > >
                              > > John Dammeyer is the *moderator* of the ELS Yahoo group and
                              > manufacturers the boards and kits that people buy. He is helpful and very
                              > generous with his time when people are trying to assemble or install their
                              > kits. As far as I know, he is not banned on any yahoo group. For people
                              > without the electronic skills to design their own, I highly recommend this
                              > path.
                              > >
                              > > The *owner* of the group "Vaso Bovin". Quite frankly, I have not ever
                              > seen him on that list so I have no first hand knowledge of his banned or
                              > not banned status.
                              > >
                              > > Mark
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <mark2382@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Scott,
                              > > >
                              > > > I understand that you might prefer to have some headroom on your
                              > processor if you are doing it yourself. However, I can assure you the ELS
                              > works fine. I have it running on a Sherline lathe at a very fast spindle
                              > speed (no back gears on that lathe, only electronic controls). I would
                              > suspect that with the Atlas backgears, and a slower spindle speed it would
                              > be better as I will be able to take deeper cuts without stalling the motor.
                              > > >
                              > > > My plan is to move it to my 618 Atlas in the future and don't see any
                              > inhibitors there. I have found the developer of this product (John
                              > Dammeyer) to be very helpful over the years and if somehow he has been
                              > banned from his own Yahoo group, I have to believe it was a mistake of some
                              > sort.
                              > > >
                              > > > With that said, I have a lot of respect for anybody that wants to
                              > enjoy the experience of doing it themselves! I hope you will consider
                              > sharing the design and software with this group.
                              > > >
                              > > > Regards,
                              > > >
                              > > > Mark
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "falcon52@" <falcon52@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I looked at the ELS Project and it uses a home made encoder.. Its
                              > not one pulse per revolution it has 2 pulse inputs a one pulse index and
                              > another of what looks like a 100 pulse per rev input.. It uses the PIC
                              > timer functions and generates the stepper pulses in the PIC.. And operates
                              > on the very edge of what the MCU is capable of... I went to the original
                              > authors site.. And in his Words He says: "Don't Bother Building It", And He
                              > is currently banned from the ELS yahoo website that is touting his
                              > project.. His design although works is very limited in accuracy because it
                              > tries to do all the functions in the PIC MCU and is thus limited by the
                              > processor's short comings... The ELS Project if moved to a PIC32 or ARM7
                              > processor would be Quite Impressive but in its current form its a thumbs
                              > down...
                              > > > >
                              > > > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "rlstrand" <rlstrand@>
                              > wrote:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > You should take a cloder look at the ELS project
                              > http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/ it is based on a PIC micro (not a PC).
                              > They seem to be able to get by with one pulse per spindle revolution. You
                              > may even be able to reuse most of the code from the project.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "falcon52@" <falcon52@>
                              > wrote:
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > In Answer to > I don't see why you need such spindle resolution.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > This Design uses a PIC MCU it does not have the power of a PC
                              > nor can it do floating point math, And only cost $10, It could never do all
                              > the calculations needed to account for spindle speed variations from a
                              > single index pulse off the spindle..
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > So in order to get around the shortcomings of the PIC, We take a
                              > very high encoder frequency and divide it down to different clock
                              > frequency's to directly step the stepper motor.. All the PIC Microchip has
                              > to do is load the proper divide by number into the counter chip for a given
                              > feed or thread and it does all the work .. The PIC now only has to gate the
                              > output of the counter on or off in time with the Index Pulse and monitor
                              > the Limit switches which will be optical to avoid contact bounce.. Spindle
                              > variations are automatically transferred to the stepper so the threads will
                              > be exactly the same as if a geared feed were used, Thus the term Electronic
                              > Gear Box.. But unlike a gear change atlas It has almost infinite gear
                              > ratios and can be changed in seconds.. Each step of the stepper motor moves
                              > the carriage 0.00025 of a inch and there are 9999 gear ratios available,
                              > Although many are out of the useful range like 1/4 or 1/8th thread per
                              > inch.. Might be good for making a barber poll..
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, Scott Henion <shenion@>
                              > wrote:
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > On 12/4/2011 5:08 AM, falcon52@ wrote:
                              > > > > > > > > The system is simple the encoder is driven 4 time spindle
                              > rpm and puts out 8000 pulse per rev which is fed to a divide by any number
                              > between 0 and 9999 IC, Which pulses the stepper motor driver.. A home
                              > switch and a 1 pulse per spindle rev index pulse sets the thread start
                              > point, Which the MCU controls, It also programs the divider to produce the
                              > individual thread pitches..
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > Any Techies in this group know where I can get a 320khz
                              > capable encoder without going broke.. A higher pulse per rev reduces the
                              > overdrive needed to the encoder but max encoder frequency is the rpm
                              > limiting factor.. Anyone have any interest in this comments are Welcome..
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > And before you say it yes I could do this with Mach3 or EMC
                              > and a CNC interface.. But in this case I just like the challenge of
                              > building a Electronic Gear Box
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > I don't see why you need such spindle resolution.
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > The ELS ( http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/ ) only has one
                              > pule per
                              > > > > > > > revolution. More info in the ELS yagoo group:
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/E-LeadScrew/
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > --
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > ------------------------------------
                              > > > > > > > Scott G. Henion
                              > > > > > > > Craftsman 12x36 lathe:
                              > > > > > > > http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36
                              > > > > > > > ------------------------------------
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                              > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                              > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              >
                              > Atlas-Craftsman Projects list is at
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman_projects/
                              >
                              > To see or edit your personal settings, view the photos, files or links
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/
                              >
                              > The Atlas-Craftsman Wiki is at
                              > http://pico-systems.com/cgi-bin/Atlas-wiki/Atlas.cgi
                              > Please submit things you think will be useful to Jon Elson at mailto:
                              > //elson@...! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • falcon52@verizon.net
                              Not belittling or praising ELS.. I works and it is what it is.. But you were in error stating it only used one pulse per revolution index pulse.. Which is
                              Message 14 of 15 , Dec 6, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Not belittling or praising ELS.. I works and it is what it is.. But you were in error stating it only used one pulse per revolution index pulse.. Which is where this journey started.. I have never used ELS and I don't know enough about it to pass judgement other than looking at the original authors C-Code.. And the gut feeling that they are asking allot from a PIC MCU.. And unless you have written code for a PIC MCU and know its internal workings and limitations there is no way to explain it to you..

                                --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, Rexarino <rexarino@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I think you have been misled. You have nothing to gain by belittling
                                > other's efforts...
                                >
                                > The Frog might have been the original design, but it is a long step from
                                > the Frog to the ELS. Although I wasn't in the group for the messages you
                                > refer to, I have compared the Frog and the ELS, and I find them to be
                                > different creatures.
                                >
                                > AFAIK, John wrote the code that runs the ELS that John provides boards and
                                > components for, at near cost - certainly not very profitable for a man that
                                > makes his living writing code. He certainly isn't providing a product that
                                > nets him much monetary return, especially as he has been sitting on some of
                                > his board and component investment for some time, yet he provides support
                                > for all the people that have built or are contemplating building one of
                                > these units. The reports indicate that they work well.
                                >
                                > Rex
                                >
                                > On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 5:02 PM, falcon52@...
                                > <falcon52@...>wrote:
                                >
                                > > As far as I know they are not the originators of the project, The original
                                > > designer open sourced it and put it in the public domain and that yahoo
                                > > group picked up on it and decided to make a product from it.. The original
                                > > designer made it to prove a point.. And then hooked his lathe up to a
                                > > computer running Mach3.. According to him he expressed his opinion of his
                                > > own project on the ELS group and they banned him.. That's all I can tell
                                > > you..
                                > >
                                > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <mark2382@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > I know it is bad form to reply to your own reply... ;-)
                                > > >
                                > > > But I couldn't figure out the comment that was made that the original
                                > > owner was "banned from the ELS Yahoo website". Perhaps we are dealing with
                                > > "Moderator" vs "Owner" roles.
                                > > >
                                > > > John Dammeyer is the *moderator* of the ELS Yahoo group and
                                > > manufacturers the boards and kits that people buy. He is helpful and very
                                > > generous with his time when people are trying to assemble or install their
                                > > kits. As far as I know, he is not banned on any yahoo group. For people
                                > > without the electronic skills to design their own, I highly recommend this
                                > > path.
                                > > >
                                > > > The *owner* of the group "Vaso Bovin". Quite frankly, I have not ever
                                > > seen him on that list so I have no first hand knowledge of his banned or
                                > > not banned status.
                                > > >
                                > > > Mark
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <mark2382@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Scott,
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I understand that you might prefer to have some headroom on your
                                > > processor if you are doing it yourself. However, I can assure you the ELS
                                > > works fine. I have it running on a Sherline lathe at a very fast spindle
                                > > speed (no back gears on that lathe, only electronic controls). I would
                                > > suspect that with the Atlas backgears, and a slower spindle speed it would
                                > > be better as I will be able to take deeper cuts without stalling the motor.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > My plan is to move it to my 618 Atlas in the future and don't see any
                                > > inhibitors there. I have found the developer of this product (John
                                > > Dammeyer) to be very helpful over the years and if somehow he has been
                                > > banned from his own Yahoo group, I have to believe it was a mistake of some
                                > > sort.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > With that said, I have a lot of respect for anybody that wants to
                                > > enjoy the experience of doing it themselves! I hope you will consider
                                > > sharing the design and software with this group.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Regards,
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Mark
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "falcon52@" <falcon52@> wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > I looked at the ELS Project and it uses a home made encoder.. Its
                                > > not one pulse per revolution it has 2 pulse inputs a one pulse index and
                                > > another of what looks like a 100 pulse per rev input.. It uses the PIC
                                > > timer functions and generates the stepper pulses in the PIC.. And operates
                                > > on the very edge of what the MCU is capable of... I went to the original
                                > > authors site.. And in his Words He says: "Don't Bother Building It", And He
                                > > is currently banned from the ELS yahoo website that is touting his
                                > > project.. His design although works is very limited in accuracy because it
                                > > tries to do all the functions in the PIC MCU and is thus limited by the
                                > > processor's short comings... The ELS Project if moved to a PIC32 or ARM7
                                > > processor would be Quite Impressive but in its current form its a thumbs
                                > > down...
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "rlstrand" <rlstrand@>
                                > > wrote:
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > You should take a cloder look at the ELS project
                                > > http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/ it is based on a PIC micro (not a PC).
                                > > They seem to be able to get by with one pulse per spindle revolution. You
                                > > may even be able to reuse most of the code from the project.
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "falcon52@" <falcon52@>
                                > > wrote:
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > In Answer to > I don't see why you need such spindle resolution.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > This Design uses a PIC MCU it does not have the power of a PC
                                > > nor can it do floating point math, And only cost $10, It could never do all
                                > > the calculations needed to account for spindle speed variations from a
                                > > single index pulse off the spindle..
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > So in order to get around the shortcomings of the PIC, We take a
                                > > very high encoder frequency and divide it down to different clock
                                > > frequency's to directly step the stepper motor.. All the PIC Microchip has
                                > > to do is load the proper divide by number into the counter chip for a given
                                > > feed or thread and it does all the work .. The PIC now only has to gate the
                                > > output of the counter on or off in time with the Index Pulse and monitor
                                > > the Limit switches which will be optical to avoid contact bounce.. Spindle
                                > > variations are automatically transferred to the stepper so the threads will
                                > > be exactly the same as if a geared feed were used, Thus the term Electronic
                                > > Gear Box.. But unlike a gear change atlas It has almost infinite gear
                                > > ratios and can be changed in seconds.. Each step of the stepper motor moves
                                > > the carriage 0.00025 of a inch and there are 9999 gear ratios available,
                                > > Although many are out of the useful range like 1/4 or 1/8th thread per
                                > > inch.. Might be good for making a barber poll..
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, Scott Henion <shenion@>
                                > > wrote:
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > On 12/4/2011 5:08 AM, falcon52@ wrote:
                                > > > > > > > > > The system is simple the encoder is driven 4 time spindle
                                > > rpm and puts out 8000 pulse per rev which is fed to a divide by any number
                                > > between 0 and 9999 IC, Which pulses the stepper motor driver.. A home
                                > > switch and a 1 pulse per spindle rev index pulse sets the thread start
                                > > point, Which the MCU controls, It also programs the divider to produce the
                                > > individual thread pitches..
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > Any Techies in this group know where I can get a 320khz
                                > > capable encoder without going broke.. A higher pulse per rev reduces the
                                > > overdrive needed to the encoder but max encoder frequency is the rpm
                                > > limiting factor.. Anyone have any interest in this comments are Welcome..
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > > And before you say it yes I could do this with Mach3 or EMC
                                > > and a CNC interface.. But in this case I just like the challenge of
                                > > building a Electronic Gear Box
                                > > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > I don't see why you need such spindle resolution.
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > The ELS ( http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/ ) only has one
                                > > pule per
                                > > > > > > > > revolution. More info in the ELS yagoo group:
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/E-LeadScrew/
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > --
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------
                                > > > > > > > > Scott G. Henion
                                > > > > > > > > Craftsman 12x36 lathe:
                                > > > > > > > > http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36
                                > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ------------------------------------
                                > >
                                > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                                > > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                                > > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                > >
                                > > Atlas-Craftsman Projects list is at
                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman_projects/
                                > >
                                > > To see or edit your personal settings, view the photos, files or links
                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/
                                > >
                                > > The Atlas-Craftsman Wiki is at
                                > > http://pico-systems.com/cgi-bin/Atlas-wiki/Atlas.cgi
                                > > Please submit things you think will be useful to Jon Elson at mailto:
                                > > //elson@...! Groups Links
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                              • jcdammeyer
                                Hi everyone, I d like to introduce myself. I m the designer of what is called the ELS and is one of the types of Electronic Lead Screws discussed on the Yahoo
                                Message 15 of 15 , Dec 6, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi everyone,

                                  I'd like to introduce myself. I'm the designer of what is called the ELS and is one of the types of Electronic Lead Screws discussed on the Yahoo E-Leadscrew group. (It's not the only one discussed).

                                  The E-Leadscrew group was formed exactly 6 years ago after discussusions on an Electronic Lead Screw project were negatively received on the CAD-CAM-CNC-DRO group.

                                  The E-Leadscrew group was formed to serve as the forum for the development of an open source Electronic Lead screw. Unfortunately some of the naysayers from the CAD-CAM group also followed and were not always helpful or interested in developing the product. In fact at times it seemed they were actively sabotaging the project. One of the nice things about Yahoo is that it's possible to go back 6 years in time to see exactly what was said and and by who.

                                  http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/E-LeadScrew/message/426

                                  The above posting really says it all if you want to check it out.

                                  My ELS development was open source from the start and I posted R&D spreadsheets at the beginning of December and started posting code by mid December 2005. My article on the ELS development was published in Circuit Cellar Magazine Issue November 2006.

                                  The ELS I designed and built was clearly a group effort with contributions from many people. One of those was even Art Fenerty, the author of MACH CNC.

                                  If you want to develop your own lead screw I suggest you join the E-Leadscrew group and read through the postings from the beginning. There's a huge amount of information on the merits of single pulse per rev verses multiple pulses. Lots more on the design process.

                                  All projects are a series of compromises. In the case of the ELS there were several. First, the cost of all parts not including the encoder shouldn't be more that $150 including an on board 3A 50V micro-stepping driver. The second was that it should use a DIP package PIC processor so users could replace it themselves. Third it should be easy to use from the persepective of operating a manual lathe. In other words, lose the manual and it shouldn't matter.

                                  Finally, the external bits and pieces shouldn't add significantly to the price. For example, my South Bend 10L has a 1.375" bore and if I wanted a decent multi-line encoder with say 2000 lines I'd have to get one custom made. I looked into that. Wasn't that expensive. Only $70. But I'd have to order 100 pieces to cover the tooling costs.

                                  It's true that I might be able to find something surplus, but what about the next user who wants one and can't source it. So the last criteria for the ELS was that it had to use common parts. That meant no custom membrane keypad. No specialty parts sourced from only one location or supplier. And open source both schematics and code.

                                  I achieved all those goals and I'm proud of what I developed which is one of the reasons I sign my postings with my full name. I hope this has cleared up any ambiguity on the subject.

                                  Best Regards,

                                  John Dammeyer.

                                  --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "falcon52@..." <falcon52@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > As far as I know they are not the originators of the project, The original designer open sourced it and put it in the public domain and that yahoo group picked up on it and decided to make a product from it.. The original designer made it to prove a point.. And then hooked his lathe up to a computer running Mach3.. According to him he expressed his opinion of his own project on the ELS group and they banned him.. That's all I can tell you..
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