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Re: [atlas_craftsman] Hello, new Craftsman Lathe owner

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  • Michael Michalski
    Needless to say we all hate you. =) That looks like one sweet deal there. ________________________________ From: Robert Silas To:
    Message 1 of 24 , Dec 2, 2008
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      Needless to say we all hate you. =) That looks like one sweet deal there.




      ________________________________
      From: Robert Silas <robert.silas@...>
      To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 10:48:58 PM
      Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Hello, new Craftsman Lathe owner


      I see you have a milling attachment too and a very useful black book of
      Lathe operation.
      Robert

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Scott Henion
      To: atlas_craftsman@ yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 9:10 PM
      Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Hello, new Craftsman Lathe owner

      Just picked up a sweet deal on a 12x36 Craftsman. Came with more tooling
      and accessories than I probably ever need. Some I probably will never
      figure out what they do. Full sets of manuals, receipts, parts lists and
      a lathe instruction manual.

      It looks pristine, was well cared for.

      I set up a real quick page on it here: http://shdesigns. org/Craftsman- 12x36/

      First job after setting it up will be to turn a new spindle for the
      useless Craftsman/Dunlap 109 lathe I have. Then sell it for almost as
      much as I bought this one for. ;) I have 2 chucks and lots of tooling
      for it. Have also upgraded gibbs and have fitted a Sherline cross slide.
      Should get good $$ (but still a crappy lathe.)

      Will probably have some questions. I know what most things do. Will be
      posting pics of some of the unknown tooling.

      One question, I want to turn a new spindle for the Dunlap; old one has
      0.003" wear on the bearing area and has a slight warp (who's the idiot
      that thought a hollow 0.550" spindle could turn 6" stock with a 1/2-20
      chuck ;) )

      Curious as to the steel to use. I'm thinking of getting some 1" tool
      steel. I would also think some stainless would be strong enough to use.
      Would like other's opinions. The stock spindle is "hardened" but it
      flexes like mild steel.

      I have turned some tool steel on the dunlap, needed back gear and go
      real slow. I think this one will go even slower.

      The guy who sold it put it on Craig's list, I was first responder and
      picked it up the next day. He had dozens of responses in the day.
      Probably could have sold for well over 2x the price.

      I'm stoked, $500 for more lathe than I'll ever need for hobby use

      Off to play ;) ;) ;)

      No virus found in this incoming message.
      Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com
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      9:31 AM






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Scott Henion
      ... Yes, I deserve that ;). In my defense, I felt real guilty taking all the stuff at the price. I got to the point when he was digging up even more tooling
      Message 2 of 24 , Dec 2, 2008
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        > Michael Michalski wrote:
        >>
        >> Needless to say we all hate you. =) That looks like one sweet deal there.
        >>
        >
        >

        Yes, I deserve that ;). In my defense, I felt real guilty taking all the
        stuff at the price. I got to the point when he was digging up even more
        tooling and accessories that I said enough.

        Seems they come in three types: Used, abused and missing parts. Decent,
        restoreable but priced like they are made of gold. Then every once in a
        while a deal like mine.

        WE HAVE SWARF!

        Wow, it is near silent. Cut 0.030 on a 9/16 12L14 hex bar with ease
        (came with real nice indexed carbide cutters.) A little noise from the
        pin that locks the pulleys to the drive gear; some play there. No
        chatter, nice big tool that stays cool.

        Has top cover mount broken and brazed back together. Works fine. There
        is some dings in the ways; nothing serious.

        I did damage it :(, It tipped on its face when i backed down my driveway
        and slipped out of gear then slammed on brakes (driveway is real steep.)
        Broke the handles off the cross and compound slides. I should be able to
        weld them back together. Did not notice until I had it set up.

        I know I have extra stuff. I have several boring bars and the original
        lantern-type tool holder. No need with the quick-change post (very nice
        even though Chinese.) I'll offer them up here at a steal once I sort out
        the pieces.

        I could not find a model # anywhere.

        <Scott>





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Michael Michalski
        It does look nice,and I thought I got a good deal on my 6 . The tooling is what really makes it too. I think these good deals though are people who have
        Message 3 of 24 , Dec 2, 2008
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          It does look nice,and I thought I got a good deal on my 6". The tooling is what really makes it too.
          I think these good deals though are people who have something around they would rather have go to someone who will use it rather than sit around and rust. I think my atlas was like that. They must have had it for years after its owner died and if they needed the money I would expect them to have held out for something approaching its value. I know I'm like that sometimes. When I moved here to ohio from california I had alot of misc auto tools. Just the normal stuff like wrenches and jack stands. Many of each too,as over the years I had lost them in the garage and just replaced them when I needed to fix something and couldnt find what I needed. When I moved,I of course wanted to get some money for it,but really what was most important was getting rid of all the stuff in the week I had to do it,and not throwing stuff away,I hate to do that. In fact,I had a full sized milling machine in peices I gave away and more than 5 tons of used ceramic floor tile
          (thats right at least 10k pounds,took two truck loads and broke a bolt holding the bed on moving them), sorted into boxes that were perfect and ones that could be cut up for corners or patterns. I also had a 12 foot tall cactus. As time was running out I just put up a big sign on the front lawn rather than haul them to the dump as I would rather have someone use them than have to toss it all. (the cactus ended up planted in a neighbors yard,I hear its about 25' now)




          ________________________________
          From: Scott Henion <shenion@...>
          To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 12:53:38 AM
          Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Hello, new Craftsman Lathe owner


          > Michael Michalski wrote:
          >>
          >> Needless to say we all hate you. =) That looks like one sweet deal there.
          >>
          >
          >

          Yes, I deserve that ;). In my defense, I felt real guilty taking all the
          stuff at the price. I got to the point when he was digging up even more
          tooling and accessories that I said enough.

          Seems they come in three types: Used, abused and missing parts. Decent,
          restoreable but priced like they are made of gold. Then every once in a
          while a deal like mine.

          WE HAVE SWARF!

          Wow, it is near silent. Cut 0.030 on a 9/16 12L14 hex bar with ease
          (came with real nice indexed carbide cutters.) A little noise from the
          pin that locks the pulleys to the drive gear; some play there. No
          chatter, nice big tool that stays cool.

          Has top cover mount broken and brazed back together. Works fine. There
          is some dings in the ways; nothing serious.

          I did damage it :(, It tipped on its face when i backed down my driveway
          and slipped out of gear then slammed on brakes (driveway is real steep.)
          Broke the handles off the cross and compound slides. I should be able to
          weld them back together. Did not notice until I had it set up.

          I know I have extra stuff. I have several boring bars and the original
          lantern-type tool holder. No need with the quick-change post (very nice
          even though Chinese.) I'll offer them up here at a steal once I sort out
          the pieces.

          I could not find a model # anywhere.

          <Scott>

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • n5kzw
          Harry, if you check back through the archives, you will find that the main reason for leveling the lathe is to make sure that the bed is flat (not bowed or
          Message 4 of 24 , Dec 3, 2008
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            Harry, if you check back through the archives, you will find that the
            main reason for leveling the lathe is to make sure that the bed is
            flat (not bowed or twisted). A level is the easiest way for most
            people to achieve that state, but three are other methods. (Google
            Rollie's dad's method.)

            Good luck with your 'new' lathe.

            Regards,
            Ed

            --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <hcapper@...> wrote:
            >
            > This is my first post here. I bought an Atlas 10100 6 inch lathe from
            > a friend and just got it up and running. Initially, I have three
            > questions for the group:
            >
            > (1) The lathe manual points out the importance of making sure the bed
            > is flat. They recommend the use of a machinist level. These are
            > available from $40 up into the hundreds. Wonder far I should go to get
            > the results I need?
            >
            > (2) I am looking at Quick Change Toolpost holder sets on LMC (Little
            > Machine Company). Phase II Hobby Set # 2401 will fit my lathe. It is
            > steel, and costs about $50 more than the aluminum one. Theoretically,
            > the steel ones should be stiffer by 3X, and less prone to chatter. Can
            > anyone tell me whether this is something to be concerned with as a
            > practical matter?
            >
            > (3) The dials on the Cross Slide and Tool Post holders are kind of
            > small and hard to read. Are there any (larger) after-market ones
            > available that would be better?
            >
          • Harry
            Ed: Thanks! I did a Google search and found the article. It is now a part of my growing, permanent information collection. It makes a lot of sense to actually
            Message 5 of 24 , Dec 3, 2008
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              Ed:

              Thanks!

              I did a Google search and found the article. It is now a part of my
              growing, permanent information collection.

              It makes a lot of sense to actually true up the lathe in the manner it
              is being used, and removes a whole layer of manufacturing tolerences.

              I first assumed the article was referring to placing shims between the
              lathe bed feet and the mounting bench, but when I got to read about
              the vertical alignment, it sounds like those shims should be between
              the headstock and the ways. Do I have this right? (It doesn't seem
              that shims placed between the lathe feet and the bench will have any
              effect on the vertical spindle alignment).

              In the first case, we are removing any twisting of the bed that occurs
              when the lathe is fastened down to the bench, and in the second, we
              are making the spindle axis parallel to the ways (as seen from the
              front or back).

              Harry

              --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "n5kzw" <n5kzw@...> wrote:
              >
              > Harry, if you check back through the archives, you will find that the
              > main reason for leveling the lathe is to make sure that the bed is
              > flat (not bowed or twisted). A level is the easiest way for most
              > people to achieve that state, but three are other methods. (Google
              > Rollie's dad's method.)
              >
              > Good luck with your 'new' lathe.
              >
              > Regards,
              > Ed
              >
              > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <hcapper@> wrote:
              > >
              > > This is my first post here. I bought an Atlas 10100 6 inch lathe from
              > > a friend and just got it up and running. Initially, I have three
              > > questions for the group:
              > >
              > > (1) The lathe manual points out the importance of making sure the bed
              > > is flat. They recommend the use of a machinist level. These are
              > > available from $40 up into the hundreds. Wonder far I should go to get
              > > the results I need?
            • Michael Fagan
              The main shimming removes twist by ensuring that the ways are parallel and on the same level. However, it can also fix the vertical alignment issues by making
              Message 6 of 24 , Dec 3, 2008
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                The main shimming removes twist by ensuring that the ways are parallel
                and on the same level. However, it can also fix the vertical
                alignment issues by making some slight adjustments. You can turn a
                test sample to ensure that the machine is not turning taper, but this
                should be corrected by shimming the bed, not the headstock. Only very
                rarely are shims used between the headstock and bed, usually when the
                bed is reground.
                On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 12:51 PM, Harry <hcapper@...> wrote:
                >
                > Ed:
                >
                > Thanks!
                >
                > I did a Google search and found the article. It is now a part of my
                > growing, permanent information collection.
                >
                > It makes a lot of sense to actually true up the lathe in the manner it
                > is being used, and removes a whole layer of manufacturing tolerences.
                >
                > I first assumed the article was referring to placing shims between the
                > lathe bed feet and the mounting bench, but when I got to read about
                > the vertical alignment, it sounds like those shims should be between
                > the headstock and the ways. Do I have this right? (It doesn't seem
                > that shims placed between the lathe feet and the bench will have any
                > effect on the vertical spindle alignment).
                >
                > In the first case, we are removing any twisting of the bed that occurs
                > when the lathe is fastened down to the bench, and in the second, we
                > are making the spindle axis parallel to the ways (as seen from the
                > front or back).
                >
                > Harry
                >
                > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "n5kzw" <n5kzw@...> wrote:
                >>
                >> Harry, if you check back through the archives, you will find that the
                >> main reason for leveling the lathe is to make sure that the bed is
                >> flat (not bowed or twisted). A level is the easiest way for most
                >> people to achieve that state, but three are other methods. (Google
                >> Rollie's dad's method.)
                >>
                >> Good luck with your 'new' lathe.
                >>
                >> Regards,
                >> Ed
                >>
                >> --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <hcapper@> wrote:
                >> >
                >> > This is my first post here. I bought an Atlas 10100 6 inch lathe from
                >> > a friend and just got it up and running. Initially, I have three
                >> > questions for the group:
                >> >
                >> > (1) The lathe manual points out the importance of making sure the bed
                >> > is flat. They recommend the use of a machinist level. These are
                >> > available from $40 up into the hundreds. Wonder far I should go to get
                >> > the results I need?
                >
                >
              • Harry Capper
                Michael: OK- I see now where shimming could correct a bowing issue. Thanks again. Harry ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 24 , Dec 3, 2008
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                  Michael:

                  OK- I see now where shimming could correct a bowing issue. Thanks again.

                  Harry

                  Michael Fagan wrote:
                  >
                  > The main shimming removes twist by ensuring that the ways are parallel
                  > and on the same level. However, it can also fix the vertical
                  > alignment issues by making some slight adjustments. You can turn a
                  > test sample to ensure that the machine is not turning taper, but this
                  > should be corrected by shimming the bed, not the headstock. Only very
                  > rarely are shims used between the headstock and bed, usually when the
                  > bed is reground.
                  > On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 12:51 PM, Harry <hcapper@...
                  > <mailto:hcapper%40verizon.net>> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Ed:
                  > >
                  > > Thanks!
                  > >
                  > > I did a Google search and found the article. It is now a part of my
                  > > growing, permanent information collection.
                  > >
                  > > It makes a lot of sense to actually true up the lathe in the manner it
                  > > is being used, and removes a whole layer of manufacturing tolerences.
                  > >
                  > > I first assumed the article was referring to placing shims between the
                  > > lathe bed feet and the mounting bench, but when I got to read about
                  > > the vertical alignment, it sounds like those shims should be between
                  > > the headstock and the ways. Do I have this right? (It doesn't seem
                  > > that shims placed between the lathe feet and the bench will have any
                  > > effect on the vertical spindle alignment).
                  > >
                  > > In the first case, we are removing any twisting of the bed that occurs
                  > > when the lathe is fastened down to the bench, and in the second, we
                  > > are making the spindle axis parallel to the ways (as seen from the
                  > > front or back).
                  > >
                  > > Harry
                  > >
                  > > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                  > <mailto:atlas_craftsman%40yahoogroups.com>, "n5kzw" <n5kzw@...> wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >> Harry, if you check back through the archives, you will find that the
                  > >> main reason for leveling the lathe is to make sure that the bed is
                  > >> flat (not bowed or twisted). A level is the easiest way for most
                  > >> people to achieve that state, but three are other methods. (Google
                  > >> Rollie's dad's method.)
                  > >>
                  > >> Good luck with your 'new' lathe.
                  > >>
                  > >> Regards,
                  > >> Ed
                  > >>
                  > >> --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                  > <mailto:atlas_craftsman%40yahoogroups.com>, "Harry" <hcapper@> wrote:
                  > >> >
                  > >> > This is my first post here. I bought an Atlas 10100 6 inch lathe from
                  > >> > a friend and just got it up and running. Initially, I have three
                  > >> > questions for the group:
                  > >> >
                  > >> > (1) The lathe manual points out the importance of making sure the bed
                  > >> > is flat. They recommend the use of a machinist level. These are
                  > >> > available from $40 up into the hundreds. Wonder far I should go
                  > to get
                  > >> > the results I need?
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • catboat15@aol.com
                  OK, now I am more than ready to help you out. Send that new looking Atlas here and I will take good care of it for you. No thanks necessary, anything to help
                  Message 8 of 24 , Dec 5, 2008
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                    OK, now I am more than ready to help you out. Send that new looking Atlas
                    here and I will take good care of it for you.
                    No thanks necessary, anything to help out.


                    John Meacham
                    Littlerock, California
                    12 inch Atlas lathe, Mini-mill, band saw and a rusty file.
                    **************Stay in touch with ALL of your friends: update your AIM, Bebo,
                    Facebook, and MySpace pages with just one click. The NEW AOL.com.
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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • catboat15@aol.com
                    When we speak of level, it means only that both ends of the bed are in the same plane and no twist is put into the bed by mounting forces. Otherwise they could
                    Message 9 of 24 , Dec 5, 2008
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                      When we speak of level, it means only that both ends of the bed are in the
                      same plane and no twist is put into the bed by mounting forces. Otherwise they
                      could not use lathes in repair or maintenance trucks and ships etc.



                      OK again "leveling" is not necessary leveling with a machinists level. It
                      is making sure that the bed is not twisted. There was a post called "Rollies
                      Dad's method of leveling a lathe" that does not need anything except a steel
                      shaft and an indicator. Also there is a methond involving a pendulum that does
                      the same job.
                      I have also experimented with a cheap laser pointer by laying it across the
                      ways near the head stock then again at the tail stock end and marking where
                      the dot shows on the far wall of the shop. About the worst thing that can
                      occur when the lathe is not "leveled" is that when turning long stock it will
                      come out tapered.

                      The way a lathe gets out of level is usually due to bolting it down hard
                      onto a wood bench top and when the wood warps (all wood will warp at times) the
                      lathe is put "off level".

                      **************Stay in touch with ALL of your friends: update your AIM, Bebo,
                      Facebook, and MySpace pages with just one click. The NEW AOL.com.
                      (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000012)


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • jerdal@sbcglobal.net
                      ... From: To: Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 12:06 AM Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Quick Change Tool
                      Message 10 of 24 , Dec 6, 2008
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                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: <catboat15@...>
                        To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 12:06 AM
                        Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Quick Change Tool Post, Machinist Level, etc
                        Questions


                        >
                        > When we speak of level, it means only that both ends of the bed are in the
                        > same plane and no twist is put into the bed by mounting forces. Otherwise
                        > they
                        > could not use lathes in repair or maintenance trucks and ships etc.
                        > OK again "leveling" is not necessary leveling with a machinists level.
                        > It
                        > is making sure that the bed is not twisted. There was a post called
                        > "Rollies
                        > Dad's method of leveling a lathe" that does not need anything except a
                        > steel
                        > shaft and an indicator. Also there is a methond involving a pendulum that
                        > does
                        > the same job.

                        The pendulum is not a lot more sensitive than a carpenter's level, unless it
                        is made rather large.

                        The "rollies dads method" is equivalent to the "two collars" standard test
                        for straightness, but IT cannot detect a twisted bed. You have to level the
                        bed FIRST, then "RDM" or the "two collars" can test the alignment of the
                        headstock.

                        neither as generally described can distinguish between a misaligned
                        headstock and a twist in the bed. This is because they have no external
                        reference. As-is, either one can have you twisting the bed into a pretzel
                        trying to compensate for a chip under the headstock, and you would have no
                        means for determining if you are right or wrong.

                        With some changes, it WOULD be possible to detect a misaligned bed with
                        "modified" versions of either one. But it takes more equipment.

                        By far the easiest method is to use a level. That inserts an "external
                        reference" and can be considered an "absolute" method, within reason.*

                        JT

                        * Obviously a level is rather inaccurate if the local variation of direction
                        of gravitational force is significant within the dimensions of the bed of
                        the lathe. This is significant only for better made machines than Atlas.
                        And sizes of bed which are in the area of 30 meters long, not one meter.
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