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Re: [atlas_craftsman] AdjustTimken Roller Bearing On Craftsman 6-Inch Lathes

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  • bill phelps
    there should be no play in the spindle it should have a preaload i do not know what that is you should be able to find out from someone in this group ... From:
    Message 1 of 15 , Jul 3, 2008
      there should be no play in the spindle it should have a preaload i do not know what that is you should be able to find out from someone in this group



      --- On Thu, 7/3/08, whoafat <wrhoafat@...> wrote:

      From: whoafat <wrhoafat@...>
      Subject: [atlas_craftsman] AdjustTimken Roller Bearing On Craftsman 6-Inch Lathes
      To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 1:12 PM






      I got a 6" Headstock with the timken roller bearings. I noticed a lot
      of play, both radially and axially. However, by just slightly taking up
      the play using the the ajusment collar next to the spindle gear all the
      play was gone. My question is this 'is that normal for a very minute
      amont of play on the order of 0.020" to 0.030" to cause very noticeable
      play, radially?
      thanks for any clarification,
      Wilfred


















      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • catboat15@aol.com
      Yes, a slight adjustment of the bearings takes the play. The reason it seems that so little adjustment makes a large difference is the reason tapered bearings
      Message 2 of 15 , Jul 3, 2008
        Yes, a slight adjustment of the bearings takes the play. The reason it seems
        that so little adjustment makes a large difference is the reason tapered
        bearings are used on the head stock. With a wedge any movement in one direction
        can make a large change in the other direction.

        The Atlas book, as I remember, has the proper amount of pre-load to put on
        the bearings when making this adjustment. (My Atlas book is packed away at
        the present or I would look it up for you)





        **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
        fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • ajxnagy
        You tighten the collar on the back of the spindle until there is no play and then further tighten the collar by about 1 or 2 teeth on the gear. See the
        Message 3 of 15 , Jul 3, 2008
          You tighten the collar on the back of the spindle until there is no play and then further tighten the collar by about 1 or 2 teeth on the gear. See the attached file for a complete description.

          AJ

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: catboat15@...
          To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 4:53 PM
          Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: AdjustTimken Roller Bearing On Craftsman 6-Inch Lathes


          Yes, a slight adjustment of the bearings takes the play. The reason it seems
          that so little adjustment makes a large difference is the reason tapered
          bearings are used on the head stock. With a wedge any movement in one direction
          can make a large change in the other direction.

          The Atlas book, as I remember, has the proper amount of pre-load to put on
          the bearings when making this adjustment. (My Atlas book is packed away at
          the present or I would look it up for you)



          **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
          fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • ajxnagy
          Well I guess you can t attach a file to this newsgroup. Here s a link - we ll see if that works. http://www.atlas-press.com/servicebulletins.htm AJ ... From:
          Message 4 of 15 , Jul 3, 2008
            Well I guess you can't attach a file to this newsgroup.
            Here's a link - we'll see if that works.

            http://www.atlas-press.com/servicebulletins.htm

            AJ
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: ajxnagy
            To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 5:15 PM
            Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: AdjustTimken Roller Bearing On Craftsman 6-Inch Lathes


            You tighten the collar on the back of the spindle until there is no play and then further tighten the collar by about 1 or 2 teeth on the gear. See the attached file for a complete description.

            AJ

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: catboat15@...
            To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 4:53 PM
            Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: AdjustTimken Roller Bearing On Craftsman 6-Inch Lathes

            Yes, a slight adjustment of the bearings takes the play. The reason it seems
            that so little adjustment makes a large difference is the reason tapered
            bearings are used on the head stock. With a wedge any movement in one direction
            can make a large change in the other direction.

            The Atlas book, as I remember, has the proper amount of pre-load to put on
            the bearings when making this adjustment. (My Atlas book is packed away at
            the present or I would look it up for you)

            **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
            fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jon Elson
            ... Due to the taper angle of the bearings, the radial play is nearly as big as the axial play. .030 is probably equal to about two gear teeth on the back of
            Message 5 of 15 , Jul 3, 2008
              whoafat wrote:
              > I got a 6" Headstock with the timken roller bearings. I noticed a lot
              > of play, both radially and axially. However, by just slightly taking up
              > the play using the the ajusment collar next to the spindle gear all the
              > play was gone. My question is this 'is that normal for a very minute
              > amont of play on the order of 0.020" to 0.030" to cause very noticeable
              > play, radially?
              Due to the taper angle of the bearings, the radial play is
              nearly as big as the axial play. .030" is probably equal to
              about two gear teeth on the back of the spindle. So, this
              sounds quite reasonable.

              Jon
            • NuritheTurk@aol.com
              From the Atlas Book: ADJUSTMENT OF TIMKEN BEARINGS Adjustment of the Timken Bearing is not often necessary, but if the spindle spins too freely or play is
              Message 6 of 15 , Jul 4, 2008
                From the Atlas Book:

                ADJUSTMENT OF TIMKEN BEARINGS

                "Adjustment of the Timken Bearing is not often necessary, but if the spindle
                spins too freely or play is noticeable when spindle is pushed back and
                forth, the following simple procedure will adjust the headstock bearings:

                Run the lathe between thirty minutes and an hour to warm up the spindle (a
                temperature rise of 50 degrees F. increases the spindle about .002 inch
                between bearings). Then loosen the set screw A (in Fig. 11) in the thrust nut, B,
                at the extreme left end of the spindle, C, and turn it up to a point where
                play can be detected in the spindle. Advance this thrust nut 1/16 turn past that
                point (equal to two teeth on the spindle gear) in order to provide the
                correct pre-load. Tighten the set screw.

                CARE OF TIMKEN BEARINGS

                "Lathes equipped with Timken bearings can be set to work immediately. Oil the
                bearings every time the lathe is in use with S.A.E. No. 10 motor oil or a
                good grade of machine oil."




                **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
                fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
              • dragonfl1ght
                ... the spindle ... spindle (a ... inch ... thrust nut, B, ... Advance this thrust nut 1/16 turn past that ... immediately. Oil the ... oil or a ...
                Message 7 of 15 , Jul 4, 2008
                  --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, NuritheTurk@... wrote:
                  >
                  > From the Atlas Book:
                  >
                  > ADJUSTMENT OF TIMKEN BEARINGS
                  >
                  > "Adjustment of the Timken Bearing is not often necessary, but if
                  the spindle
                  > spins too freely or play is noticeable when spindle is pushed back and
                  > forth, the following simple procedure will adjust the headstock
                  bearings:
                  >
                  > Run the lathe between thirty minutes and an hour to warm up the
                  spindle (a
                  > temperature rise of 50 degrees F. increases the spindle about .002
                  inch
                  > between bearings). Then loosen the set screw A (in Fig. 11) in the
                  thrust nut, B,
                  > at the extreme left end of the spindle, C, and in the spindle.
                  Advance this thrust nut 1/16 turn past that
                  > point (equal to two teeth on the spindle gear) in order to provide the
                  > correct pre-load. Tighten the set screw.
                  >
                  > CARE OF TIMKEN BEARINGS
                  >
                  > "Lathes equipped with Timken bearings can be set to work
                  immediately. Oil the
                  > bearings every time the lathe is in use with S.A.E. No. 10 motor
                  oil or a
                  > good grade of machine oil."
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
                  > fuel-efficient used cars.
                  (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
                  >

                  I am just about to reassemble my 10" atlas and I just received/read
                  the Atlas Book. I was confused by the above passage. Later in the book
                  (page 15), and in the service note online
                  (http://www.atlas-press.com/tb_6bg.htm - 6" version), they give the
                  same instructions, but WITHOUT preheating the spindle.
                  So the question I ask is to preheat or not to preheat?

                  (ps to be pedantic the instructions are to "... turn it up to a point
                  where NO play can be detected ...")

                  thanks
                • NuritheTurk@aol.com
                  If you don t preheat, and you tighten it down cold, then when it s operating under load and heats up, it will be too tightly loaded and might cause premature
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jul 4, 2008
                    If you don't preheat, and you tighten it down cold, then when it's operating
                    under load and heats up, it will be too tightly loaded and might cause
                    premature bearing wear. IMHO

                    Turk



                    **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
                    fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Jon Elson
                    ... If I understood the instructions from Atlas, it works the other way. The spindle heats up when running fast and expands, REDUCING the bearing preload. Jon
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jul 5, 2008
                      NuritheTurk@... wrote:
                      > If you don't preheat, and you tighten it down cold, then when it's operating
                      > under load and heats up, it will be too tightly loaded and might cause
                      > premature bearing wear. IMHO
                      If I understood the instructions from Atlas, it works the other
                      way. The spindle heats up when running fast and expands,
                      REDUCING the bearing preload.

                      Jon
                    • WILFRED R HOAFAT
                      Turk, I agree and I will follow the recommended 20 minutes plus warmup to get the right conditions, thanks for the info, Wilfred ... From:
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jul 5, 2008
                        Turk,
                        I agree and I will follow the recommended 20 minutes plus warmup to get the right conditions,
                        thanks for the info,
                        Wilfred



                        ----- Original Message ----
                        From: "NuritheTurk@..." <NuritheTurk@...>
                        To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2008 2:51:37 AM
                        Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: AdjustTimken Roller Bearing On Craftsman 6-Inch Lathes


                        If you don't preheat, and you tighten it down cold, then when it's operating
                        under load and heats up, it will be too tightly loaded and might cause
                        premature bearing wear. IMHO

                        Turk

                        ************ **Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
                        fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos. aol.com/used? ncid=aolaut00050 000000007)

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • WILFRED R HOAFAT
                        Dragon* Thanks for the detailed write up. I am glad the you mentioned the time table and grade of oil to use for the bearings, Wilfred ... From: dragonfl1ght
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jul 5, 2008
                          Dragon*
                          Thanks for the detailed write up. I am glad the you mentioned the time table and grade of oil to use for the bearings,
                          Wilfred


                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: dragonfl1ght <dragonflight@...>
                          To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Friday, July 4, 2008 2:16:01 PM
                          Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: AdjustTimken Roller Bearing On Craftsman 6-Inch Lathes


                          --- In atlas_craftsman@ yahoogroups. com, NuritheTurk@ ... wrote:
                          >
                          > From the Atlas Book:
                          >
                          > ADJUSTMENT OF TIMKEN BEARINGS
                          >
                          > "Adjustment of the Timken Bearing is not often necessary, but if
                          the spindle
                          > spins too freely or play is noticeable when spindle is pushed back and
                          > forth, the following simple procedure will adjust the headstock
                          bearings:
                          >
                          > Run the lathe between thirty minutes and an hour to warm up the
                          spindle (a
                          > temperature rise of 50 degrees F. increases the spindle about .002
                          inch
                          > between bearings). Then loosen the set screw A (in Fig. 11) in the
                          thrust nut, B,
                          > at the extreme left end of the spindle, C, and in the spindle.
                          Advance this thrust nut 1/16 turn past that
                          > point (equal to two teeth on the spindle gear) in order to provide the
                          > correct pre-load. Tighten the set screw.
                          >
                          > CARE OF TIMKEN BEARINGS
                          >
                          > "Lathes equipped with Timken bearings can be set to work
                          immediately. Oil the
                          > bearings every time the lathe is in use with S.A.E. No. 10 motor
                          oil or a
                          > good grade of machine oil."
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ************ **Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
                          > fuel-efficient used cars.
                          (http://autos. aol.com/used? ncid=aolaut00050 000000007)
                          >

                          I am just about to reassemble my 10" atlas and I just received/read
                          the Atlas Book. I was confused by the above passage. Later in the book
                          (page 15), and in the service note online
                          (http://www.atlas- press.com/ tb_6bg.htm - 6" version), they give the
                          same instructions, but WITHOUT preheating the spindle.
                          So the question I ask is to preheat or not to preheat?

                          (ps to be pedantic the instructions are to "... turn it up to a point
                          where NO play can be detected ...")

                          thanks



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • WILFRED R HOAFAT
                          I Tome, it is gooed news to hear that a slight corrections will make such a big difference. Otherwise, my specifice headstock might have bean ready for the
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jul 5, 2008
                            I\Tome, it is gooed news to hear that a slight corrections will make such a big difference. Otherwise, my specifice headstock might have bean ready for the scrap yard,
                            thanks for all the info,
                            Wilfred



                            ----- Original Message ----
                            From: ajxnagy <ajxnagy@...>
                            To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Thursday, July 3, 2008 6:30:29 PM
                            Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: AdjustTimken Roller Bearing On Craftsman 6-Inch Lathes


                            Well I guess you can't attach a file to this newsgroup.
                            Here's a link - we'll see if that works.

                            http://www.atlas- press.com/ servicebulletins .htm

                            AJ
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: ajxnagy
                            To: atlas_craftsman@ yahoogroups. com
                            Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 5:15 PM
                            Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: AdjustTimken Roller Bearing On Craftsman 6-Inch Lathes

                            You tighten the collar on the back of the spindle until there is no play and then further tighten the collar by about 1 or 2 teeth on the gear. See the attached file for a complete description.

                            AJ

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: catboat15@aol. com
                            To: atlas_craftsman@ yahoogroups. com
                            Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 4:53 PM
                            Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: AdjustTimken Roller Bearing On Craftsman 6-Inch Lathes

                            Yes, a slight adjustment of the bearings takes the play. The reason it seems
                            that so little adjustment makes a large difference is the reason tapered
                            bearings are used on the head stock. With a wedge any movement in one direction
                            can make a large change in the other direction.

                            The Atlas book, as I remember, has the proper amount of pre-load to put on
                            the bearings when making this adjustment. (My Atlas book is packed away at
                            the present or I would look it up for you)

                            ************ **Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
                            fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos. aol.com/used? ncid=aolaut00050 000000007)

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Donald Jardine
                            ... operating ... (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) ... 1. If the bearings are tightened down cold, and the spindle (and bearings) increase
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jul 6, 2008
                              --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, NuritheTurk@... wrote:
                              >
                              > If you don't preheat, and you tighten it down cold, then when it's
                              operating
                              > under load and heats up, it will be too tightly loaded and might cause
                              > premature bearing wear. IMHO
                              >
                              > Turk
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
                              > fuel-efficient used cars.
                              (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >

                              1. If the bearings are tightened down cold, and the spindle (and
                              bearings) increase in temperature. the spindle expands in length,
                              which results in an -increase- in clearance between the roller cage
                              and the seat, on both bearings. Preload while cold will compress the
                              spindle/bearing components, so that when warm, the preload compression
                              will compensate for the thermal expansion. The amount of preload
                              required is determined by the amount of expansion that will occur as
                              the bearing comes to operating temperature.

                              2. I have been unable to find a reference to adjustment after warmup.
                              Could someone post the URL?

                              Cheers

                              Don
                            • dragonfl1ght
                              Page 10 of the Atlas Manual. This is what was quoted by NuritheTurk a few messages back. Later in the book they give the same instructions but no preheat.
                              Message 14 of 15 , Jul 6, 2008
                                Page 10 of the Atlas Manual. This is what was quoted by NuritheTurk a
                                few messages back. Later in the book they give the same instructions
                                but no preheat.

                                Still don't know whether to preheat or not.

                                mike

                                --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "Donald Jardine" <djardi@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, NuritheTurk@ wrote:
                                > >
                                > > If you don't preheat, and you tighten it down cold, then when it's
                                > operating
                                > > under load and heats up, it will be too tightly loaded and might
                                cause
                                > > premature bearing wear. IMHO
                                > >
                                > > Turk
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
                                > > fuel-efficient used cars.
                                > (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                >
                                > 1. If the bearings are tightened down cold, and the spindle (and
                                > bearings) increase in temperature. the spindle expands in length,
                                > which results in an -increase- in clearance between the roller cage
                                > and the seat, on both bearings. Preload while cold will compress the
                                > spindle/bearing components, so that when warm, the preload compression
                                > will compensate for the thermal expansion. The amount of preload
                                > required is determined by the amount of expansion that will occur as
                                > the bearing comes to operating temperature.
                                >
                                > 2. I have been unable to find a reference to adjustment after warmup.
                                > Could someone post the URL?
                                >
                                > Cheers
                                >
                                > Don
                                >
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