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New member, and a bearing question

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  • audi200qpilot
    hello, I ve owned my 12 Craftsman model 101.07403 (early 50s manual change- gears metal lathe) for more than 25 years. Bought the lathe from the original
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 5 11:26 PM
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      hello,

      I've owned my 12" Craftsman model 101.07403 (early '50s manual change-
      gears metal lathe) for more than 25 years. Bought the lathe from the
      original owner who used it mostly to trim the skirts of aluminum
      pistons for balancing purposes in his and friends' sports car engines.

      It had no discernible wear, at least that I could detect, and has
      served me as my main home machine shop tool since then, with no
      problems whatsoever. It's accuracy has been only limited by how well
      I can operate it, just a wonderful machine.

      A couple years ago I was in the right place to buy another slightly
      fancier lathe, an updated 10" Southbend clone made in England, and use
      them both in my home hobby shop. It's surprising to me how often I
      find the slightly larger size of the Atlas to be a significant
      advantage, even to the point of making the difference of being able to
      do a job. Whenever I read the commonly repeated advice from
      experienced machinists to buy the biggest lathe you have room for and
      can afford, I understand and agree.

      A friend introduced me to the existence and advantages of VFD
      (variable frequency drive) systems used with 3 phase motors. I will
      soon re-power the Atlas with a new 1.5 hp motor, controlled through a
      VFD. That set-up will provide continuously variable spindle speed at
      the turn of a knob, and with the excess hp, it will still have plenty
      of torque at low speeds. While it's moved out into the middle of my
      shop for that conversion, I'll do a general disassembly and thorough
      clean-up and repaint. I plan to put new roller bearings in the
      headstock at that same time, the right end one seems to be making some
      noise I never noticed before. Did you wonder if I'd never get around
      to the question? Which is, what are the two sizes of spindle bearings
      needed, and what opinions are out there regarding grade of bearings to
      use. I found the parts list in the files section, but the part number
      that's in my original parts list for the front bearing is 10A-9A, but
      that part number isn't shown on page 8 of Clausing's 2005 "Craftsman
      Lathe Parts PDF" in the group's file section. There is a similar
      number, 10A-9C which might be a revised number - $350, so I hope
      that's not it. Anyway, anyone who's done it recently may know all I
      need to know. btw, the file on how to do that particular bearing
      replacement job from member dzibul will prove helpful to me, I'm sure.

      Thanks for reading and for your interest, any tips or advice will be
      appreciated.

      Larry Sciortino, Seattle
    • stormcrow_40291
      ... Hey there, welcome! Your VFD probably has a setting to ensure that constant torque is applied. You don t have to depend on brute-force HP for that. Atlas
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 6 7:59 AM
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        --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "audi200qpilot" <las1940@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > hello,
        >
        > I've owned my 12" Craftsman model 101.07403 (early '50s manual change-
        > gears metal lathe) with a new 1.5 hp motor, controlled through a
        > VFD. That set-up will provide continuously variable spindle speed at
        > the turn of a knob, and with the excess hp, it will still have plenty
        > of torque at low speeds.

        Hey there, welcome!

        Your VFD probably has a setting to ensure that constant torque is
        applied. You don't have to depend on brute-force HP for that. Atlas
        lathes originally came with 1/3 or perhaps 1/2 HP motors. I just
        acquired a 1hp 3-phase - it weights 48 lbs. I am concerned this motor
        is too heavy and may cause a casting to crack. Therefore I won't be
        mounting it to the lathe until I can rig an external support for it.

        So be careful when you mount the 1.5 HP beast - it is surely way
        heavier than the lathe's OEM motor. I shudder to think what would
        happen if a support casting broke while the lathe was running.
      • LouD31M066@aol.com
        The bearings come in two parts, each is marked. You can shop for them on line or look in your yellow pages under bearings to find a local industrial
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 6 9:04 AM
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          The bearings come in two parts, each is marked. You can shop for them
          on line or look in your yellow pages under bearings to find
          a local industrial supplier. A standard bearing should be more than
          sufficient.
          IF a higher grade bearing is offered the price difference will be
          substantial.
          A set of bearings for a 6 inch cost about $35 several years ago locally,
          I have heard mention in past that a set for a 12 inch would be in $125
          range.
          When buying bearings it is best to go as far up the food chain as possible
          to avoid excessive markups.,,bearings of a specific brand and type are about
          the most uniform product sold...so you might as well buy on price.
          Louis



          **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
          (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
          48)


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Steve
          Larry, Everything you wanted to know about bearings: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/message/40999 Steve ...
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 6 9:19 AM
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            Larry,

            Everything you wanted to know about bearings:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/message/40999

            Steve

            >1. New member, and a bearing question Posted by: "audi200qpilot" las1940@...   audi200qpilot Tue Feb 5, 2008 11:26 pm (PST)
            > hello,
            >
            > Which is, what are the two sizes of spindle bearings
            >needed, and what opinions are out there regarding grade of bearings to
            >use. I found the parts list in the files section, but the part number
            >that's in my original parts list for the front bearing is 10A-9A, but
            >that part number isn't shown on page 8 of Clausing's 2005 "Craftsman
            >Lathe Parts PDF" in the group's file section. There is a similar
            >number, 10A-9C which might be a revised number - $350, so I hope
            >that's not it. Anyway, anyone who's done it recently may know all I
            >need to know. btw, the file on how to do that particular bearing
            >replacement job from member dzibul will prove helpful to me, I'm sure.
            >


            ________________________________________
            PeoplePC Online
            A better way to Internet
            http://www.peoplepc.com
          • jwjrotary@verizon.net
            ... I am rebuilding one of my model 403 12 also. I took the bearings out and went to the local bearing store. Big surprise, the outer races were $126 each and
            Message 5 of 11 , Feb 6 10:17 AM
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              >From: audi200qpilot <las1940@...>
              >Date: 2008/02/06 Wed AM 01:26:27 CST
              >To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: [atlas_craftsman] New member, and a bearing question

              >
              >hello,
              >
              >I've owned my 12" Craftsman model 101.07403 (early '50s manual change-
              >gears metal lathe) for more than 25 years. Bought the lathe from the
              >original owner who used it mostly to trim the skirts of aluminum
              >pistons for balancing purposes in his and friends' sports car engines.
              >
              >It had no discernible wear, at least that I could detect, and has
              >served me as my main home machine shop tool since then, with no
              >problems whatsoever. It's accuracy has been only limited by how well
              >I can operate it, just a wonderful machine.
              >
              >A couple years ago I was in the right place to buy another slightly
              >fancier lathe, an updated 10" Southbend clone made in England, and use
              >them both in my home hobby shop. It's surprising to me how often I
              >find the slightly larger size of the Atlas to be a significant
              >advantage, even to the point of making the difference of being able to
              >do a job. Whenever I read the commonly repeated advice from
              >experienced machinists to buy the biggest lathe you have room for and
              >can afford, I understand and agree.
              >
              >A friend introduced me to the existence and advantages of VFD
              >(variable frequency drive) systems used with 3 phase motors. I will
              >soon re-power the Atlas with a new 1.5 hp motor, controlled through a
              >VFD. That set-up will provide continuously variable spindle speed at
              >the turn of a knob, and with the excess hp, it will still have plenty
              >of torque at low speeds. While it's moved out into the middle of my
              >shop for that conversion, I'll do a general disassembly and thorough
              >clean-up and repaint. I plan to put new roller bearings in the
              >headstock at that same time, the right end one seems to be making some
              >noise I never noticed before. Did you wonder if I'd never get around
              >to the question? Which is, what are the two sizes of spindle bearings
              >needed, and what opinions are out there regarding grade of bearings to
              >use. I found the parts list in the files section, but the part number
              >that's in my original parts list for the front bearing is 10A-9A, but
              >that part number isn't shown on page 8 of Clausing's 2005 "Craftsman
              >Lathe Parts PDF" in the group's file section. There is a similar
              >number, 10A-9C which might be a revised number - $350, so I hope
              >that's not it. Anyway, anyone who's done it recently may know all I
              >need to know. btw, the file on how to do that particular bearing
              >replacement job from member dzibul will prove helpful to me, I'm sure.
              >
              >Thanks for reading and for your interest, any tips or advice will be
              >appreciated.
              >
              >Larry Sciortino, Seattle
              >
              >
              I am rebuilding one of my model 403 12" also. I took the bearings out and went to the local bearing store. Big surprise, the outer races were $126 each and the inner were $26 each. I am reusing the original ones whitch are in good shape. BTW, they had a date enscribed on them of 5-3-41. That makes them a little bit older than me.
            • LouD31M066@aol.com
              Price is a shocker. Did you shop around? Louis **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
              Message 6 of 11 , Feb 6 11:51 AM
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                Price is a shocker. Did you shop around?
                Louis



                **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
                (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
                48)


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Lawrence Sciortino
                Hi Louis, no, I have not shopped around yet. I was hoping to get actual bearing numbers/sizes before disassembling mine, so that I can do just that. Larry
                Message 7 of 11 , Feb 6 12:28 PM
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                  Hi Louis,

                  no, I have not shopped around yet. I was hoping to get actual
                  bearing numbers/sizes before disassembling mine, so that I can do
                  just that. Larry

                  On Feb 6, 2008, at 11:51 AM, LouD31M066@... wrote:

                  > Price is a shocker. Did you shop around?
                  > Louis
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Lawrence Sciortino
                  ... Thanks for the comments, Larry ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Message 8 of 11 , Feb 6 12:43 PM
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                    > I have not yet made the VFD purchase, but plan to pay a bit extra
                    > for one that uses the "sensorless vector" circuitry, which
                    > minimizes torque loss as rpm is diminished. The lowest cost VFDs
                    > use frequency/voltage proportional variance, which results in
                    > torque loss or gain as rpm is varied. Your concern about increased
                    > motor weight is well taken. I will take that into consideration,
                    > and if it appears appropriate, do some structural compensation to
                    > beef up the support. The replacement motor I bought is a new
                    > Leeson that I have not yet weighed, but I think is less than your
                    > 48 pounder.
                    >

                    Thanks for the comments, Larry
                    >
                    > Hey there, welcome!
                    >
                    > Your VFD probably has a setting to ensure that constant torque is
                    > applied. You don't have to depend on brute-force HP for that. Atlas
                    > lathes originally came with 1/3 or perhaps 1/2 HP motors. I just
                    > acquired a 1hp 3-phase - it weights 48 lbs. I am concerned this motor
                    > is too heavy and may cause a casting to crack. Therefore I won't be
                    > mounting it to the lathe until I can rig an external support for it.
                    >
                    > So be careful when you mount the 1.5 HP beast - it is surely way
                    > heavier than the lathe's OEM motor. I shudder to think what would
                    > happen if a support casting broke while the lathe was running.
                    >
                    >
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • LouD31M066@aol.com
                    Couple things to bear in mind: 1) Be sure the bearings are at fault before removing... a) remove wick from spindle oilers and flush with WD40 or similar
                    Message 9 of 11 , Feb 6 1:26 PM
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                      Couple things to bear in mind:
                      1) Be sure the bearings are at fault before removing... a) remove
                      wick from spindle oilers and flush with WD40 or similar solvent to remove
                      any varnish and crud then reoil with 20 wt nondetergent
                      b) clean wick material with solvent, reinstall and oil (replace with new
                      wick material if it can not be cleaned)
                      c) read the instruction about setting preload then confirm that yours are
                      properly adjusted.
                      Bearing that are rough or "catch" or are noisy probably need replacement
                      so read and follow the instructions for removal. If one bearing is worn out
                      likely the other is as well, however, do not assume check...it is possible
                      something got into one bearing and ruined it...when removing a bearing
                      bear in mind it is just possible it is a good enough to reuse...read up
                      on do's and don'ts of bearing removal/installation.
                      After you have removed the bearings and races wash them with clean
                      solvent or WD40 and inspect carefully.
                      Spinning dry with compressed air will ruin the bearing as well as pose
                      a hazard if the bearing breaks up and scatters,
                      It is a false economy to mix old and new parts in the same
                      bearing assembly.
                      You will have to make some simple tooling in order to properly remove
                      and replace spindle bearings...specifically washers (large diameter)
                      turned to a just right size to enable you to use a nut and a threaded
                      rod to apply force to remove and install races in headstock casting
                      Can be done easily on a lathe and with some work using drill
                      and file...might be best to turn to close to size before shutting
                      down lathe for repair.
                      Louis



                      **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
                      (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
                      48)


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Lawrence Sciortino
                      Louis, good ideas, and no harm in trying. Thanks, Larry ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Message 10 of 11 , Feb 6 2:14 PM
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                        Louis,

                        good ideas, and no harm in trying. Thanks, Larry



                        On Feb 6, 2008, at 1:26 PM, LouD31M066@... wrote:

                        > Couple things to bear in mind:
                        > 1) Be sure the bearings are at fault before removing... a) remove
                        > wick from spindle oilers and flush with WD40 or similar solvent to
                        > remove
                        > any varnish and crud then reoil with 20 wt nondetergent
                        > b) clean wick material with solvent, reinstall and oil (replace
                        > with new
                        > wick material if it can not be cleaned)
                        > c) read the instruction about setting preload then confirm that
                        > yours are
                        > properly adjusted.
                        > Bearing that are rough or "catch" or are noisy probably need
                        > replacement
                        > so read and follow the instructions for removal. If one bearing is
                        > worn out
                        > likely the other is as well, however, do not assume check...it is
                        > possible
                        > something got into one bearing and ruined it...when removing a bearing
                        > bear in mind it is just possible it is a good enough to
                        > reuse...read up
                        > on do's and don'ts of bearing removal/installation.
                        > After you have removed the bearings and races wash them with clean
                        > solvent or WD40 and inspect carefully.
                        > Spinning dry with compressed air will ruin the bearing as well as pose
                        > a hazard if the bearing breaks up and scatters,
                        > It is a false economy to mix old and new parts in the same
                        > bearing assembly.
                        > You will have to make some simple tooling in order to properly remove
                        > and replace spindle bearings...specifically washers (large diameter)
                        > turned to a just right size to enable you to use a nut and a threaded
                        > rod to apply force to remove and install races in headstock casting
                        > Can be done easily on a lathe and with some work using drill
                        > and file...might be best to turn to close to size before shutting
                        > down lathe for repair.
                        > Louis
                        >
                        > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
                        > (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?
                        > NCID=aolcmp003000000025
                        > 48)
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Mark Alan Stahnke (MAS Consulting)
                        I have been trying for over two months to get removed from this list....I have replied to the unsubscribe AT LEAST 4X as requested and I still keep getting the
                        Message 11 of 11 , Feb 6 2:18 PM
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                          I have been trying for over two months to get removed from this list....I have replied to the unsubscribe AT LEAST 4X as requested and I still keep getting the emails and thats why I am sending to all your attention...PLEASE CAN SOMEONE HAVE ME REMOVED?????
                          THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE.
                          MARK (ps turns out I have a southbend and not Atlas (Ironic)
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: LouD31M066@...
                          To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 1:26 PM
                          Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] New member, and a bearing question


                          Couple things to bear in mind:
                          1) Be sure the bearings are at fault before removing... a) remove
                          wick from spindle oilers and flush with WD40 or similar solvent to remove
                          any varnish and crud then reoil with 20 wt nondetergent
                          b) clean wick material with solvent, reinstall and oil (replace with new
                          wick material if it can not be cleaned)
                          c) read the instruction about setting preload then confirm that yours are
                          properly adjusted.
                          Bearing that are rough or "catch" or are noisy probably need replacement
                          so read and follow the instructions for removal. If one bearing is worn out
                          likely the other is as well, however, do not assume check...it is possible
                          something got into one bearing and ruined it...when removing a bearing
                          bear in mind it is just possible it is a good enough to reuse...read up
                          on do's and don'ts of bearing removal/installation.
                          After you have removed the bearings and races wash them with clean
                          solvent or WD40 and inspect carefully.
                          Spinning dry with compressed air will ruin the bearing as well as pose
                          a hazard if the bearing breaks up and scatters,
                          It is a false economy to mix old and new parts in the same
                          bearing assembly.
                          You will have to make some simple tooling in order to properly remove
                          and replace spindle bearings...specifically washers (large diameter)
                          turned to a just right size to enable you to use a nut and a threaded
                          rod to apply force to remove and install races in headstock casting
                          Can be done easily on a lathe and with some work using drill
                          and file...might be best to turn to close to size before shutting
                          down lathe for repair.
                          Louis

                          **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
                          (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
                          48)

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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