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updated tool post / chuck / accuracy adjustments

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  • redsouljoe
    I build motorcycles in Seattle and I use a 12in atlas lathe. I m not sure about the exact model, but it uses the quick change gearing. If you can tell me where
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 31, 2007
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      I build motorcycles in Seattle and I use a 12in atlas lathe. I'm not
      sure about the exact model, but it uses the quick change gearing. If
      you can tell me where to look on the lathe, I'll post the model
      numbers and take a few pics of the machine.

      I'm looking for an updated tool post. I want a quick change post but
      I'm not sure which type will fit the lathe. I was looking into a
      Phase II quick change tool post, but again, not sure if it will fit
      and have no clue about their quality. Anyone out there know of a nice
      setup I can look into?

      Also, my chuck seems to have a bit of a wobble, maybe .05-.10 or so.
      Plus the jaws seem to be a bit worn at the end. Is there some
      adjustments to be made on the machine to help with the wobble, or
      should I look for a new chuck? And where is a good quality chuck for
      this machine?

      Also, I've heard about a tool that allows you to cut perfect circular
      radius for ball ends. I know I have a lot of questions, but does
      anyone know of this tool, or where I can pick it up? Thanks a lot for
      your time.
    • Joe R
      The Phase II series 100 is a very good fit. Even though it s Chinese it s of better quality. It s currently on sale at Enco for $89.95 for the piston type.
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 1, 2007
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        The Phase II series 100 is a very good fit. Even though it's Chinese it's of better quality. It's currently on sale at Enco for $89.95 for the piston type. Item NS505-2253 in the April flyer. Here's the free shipping code for purchases over $50. WBARN7 You will have to fit the "T" nut to your compound. A simple job on a milling machine but a circular one can be made on a lathe.
        Joe

        From: redsouljoe
        To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 2:59 AM
        Subject: [atlas_craftsman] updated tool post / chuck / accuracy adjustments


        I build motorcycles in Seattle and I use a 12in atlas lathe. I'm not
        sure about the exact model, but it uses the quick change gearing. If
        you can tell me where to look on the lathe, I'll post the model
        numbers and take a few pics of the machine.

        I'm looking for an updated tool post. I want a quick change post but
        I'm not sure which type will fit the lathe. I was looking into a
        Phase II quick change tool post, but again, not sure if it will fit
        and have no clue about their quality. Anyone out there know of a nice
        setup I can look into?

        Also, my chuck seems to have a bit of a wobble, maybe .05-.10 or so.
        Plus the jaws seem to be a bit worn at the end. Is there some
        adjustments to be made on the machine to help with the wobble, or
        should I look for a new chuck? And where is a good quality chuck for
        this machine?

        Also, I've heard about a tool that allows you to cut perfect circular
        radius for ball ends. I know I have a lot of questions, but does
        anyone know of this tool, or where I can pick it up? Thanks a lot for
        your time.





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Brett Jones
        I m using an unbranded import wedge type AXA sized QCTP that I m very happy with. It s my understanding that AXA and type 100 are the same size. You ll have to
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 1, 2007
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          I'm using an unbranded import wedge type AXA sized QCTP that I'm very
          happy with. It's my understanding that AXA and type 100 are the same
          size. You'll have to mill down the base plate so it fits into the t-slot
          on the compound. I paid around $120 if I remember right.

          This last week I installed a Bison 5" 3 jaw chuck. I went with the plain
          back setup and cut a pre-threaded bison backing plate to fit the chuck.
          Using a 12" length of precision hardened 1" I have kicking around I
          measured .002 tir at 8" or so. I picked this up from Enco, so check
          their site for prices. If you don't want to go to the trouble of fitting
          a backplate you can get the chuck in a direct mount version.

          --
          Brett Jones
          brett@...
        • Jon Elson
          ... The Phase II 100 series is what you want. The piston style should be perfectly adequate for a 12 Craftsman, that s what I used to have. ... Wobble? Do
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 1, 2007
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            redsouljoe wrote:
            > I build motorcycles in Seattle and I use a 12in atlas lathe. I'm not
            > sure about the exact model, but it uses the quick change gearing. If
            > you can tell me where to look on the lathe, I'll post the model
            > numbers and take a few pics of the machine.
            >
            > I'm looking for an updated tool post. I want a quick change post but
            > I'm not sure which type will fit the lathe. I was looking into a
            > Phase II quick change tool post, but again, not sure if it will fit
            > and have no clue about their quality. Anyone out there know of a nice
            > setup I can look into?
            >
            The Phase II 100 series is what you want. The piston style
            should be perfectly adequate for a 12" Craftsman, that's what I
            used to have.
            > Also, my chuck seems to have a bit of a wobble, maybe .05-.10 or so.
            > Plus the jaws seem to be a bit worn at the end. Is there some
            > adjustments to be made on the machine to help with the wobble, or
            > should I look for a new chuck? And where is a good quality chuck for
            > this machine?
            >
            Wobble? Do you mean the chuck can move around on the spindle
            thread? Or that round parts are held off-center? .1" is HUGE!
            Or is that .1 mm? .1 mm would not be shocking on a well-worn
            chuck. .1" might indicate the jaws are not in the right slot.
            The slots and jaws are numbered, and have to go in the right
            order to even come close, but should go in the same slot they
            were originally made for, for best accuracy.

            The jaws can be reground with a die grinder, Dremel or toolpost
            grinder to get rid of the taper on their gripping faces.
            > Also, I've heard about a tool that allows you to cut perfect circular
            > radius for ball ends. I know I have a lot of questions, but does
            > anyone know of this tool, or where I can pick it up? Thanks a lot for
            > your time.
            That is a radius attachement or ball-turning attachement. Check
            eBay, there have been construction articles in some of the hobby
            metalworking magazines, and you can see them in some of the
            machine shop supply catalogs. They are pretty expensive.

            Jon
          • Jon Elson
            ... I believe they are Taiwanese, not mainland China. There used to be a BIG difference, I think there still is at least a substantial difference in QC and
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 1, 2007
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              Joe R wrote:
              > The Phase II series 100 is a very good fit. Even though it's Chinese it's of better quality. It's currently on sale at Enco for $89.95 for the piston type. Item NS505-2253 in the April flyer. Here's the free shipping code for purchases over $50. WBARN7 You will have to fit the "T" nut to your compound. A simple job on a milling machine but a circular one can be made on a lathe.
              I believe they are Taiwanese, not mainland China. There used to
              be a BIG difference, I think there still is at least a
              substantial difference in QC and "fit and finish". You won't
              find a pile of grinder dust in a Phase II tool.

              Jon
            • William Abernathy
              ... The Phase II AXA-compatible post is the way to go. ... Bison (made in Poland makes the best cheap chuck in this size. Before you write off your existing
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 1, 2007
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                redsouljoe wrote:
                > I build motorcycles in Seattle and I use a 12in atlas lathe. I'm not
                > sure about the exact model, but it uses the quick change gearing. If
                > you can tell me where to look on the lathe, I'll post the model
                > numbers and take a few pics of the machine.
                >
                > I'm looking for an updated tool post. I want a quick change post but
                > I'm not sure which type will fit the lathe. I was looking into a
                > Phase II quick change tool post, but again, not sure if it will fit
                > and have no clue about their quality. Anyone out there know of a nice
                > setup I can look into?

                The Phase II AXA-compatible post is the way to go.

                > Also, my chuck seems to have a bit of a wobble, maybe .05-.10 or so.
                > Plus the jaws seem to be a bit worn at the end. Is there some
                > adjustments to be made on the machine to help with the wobble, or
                > should I look for a new chuck? And where is a good quality chuck for
                > this machine?

                Bison (made in Poland makes the best cheap chuck in this size. Before you write
                off your existing chuck, you should do the following:

                1) Inspect the mounting threads on both the chuck and the spindle to make sure
                there's no swarf or other crud there throwing you off.

                2) Take the chuck off its backing plate and make sure the backing plate is true
                on your machine. It's possible for the chuck to run true on its backing plate,
                and the plate to run true on a different lathe, while the plate and chuck mount
                all wiggly on yours. The only way to be sure is to verify that the backing plate
                runs true, and if not, to true it.

                3) If the first two tests pass, then you may be able to regrind the jaws to hold
                true. You need to do this with the jaws loaded.

                >
                > Also, I've heard about a tool that allows you to cut perfect circular
                > radius for ball ends. I know I have a lot of questions, but does
                > anyone know of this tool, or where I can pick it up? Thanks a lot for
                > your time.

                What you're describing is a ball-turning fixture. There are plenty of designs
                out there, some of them in the Files section of this very group. I believe
                LittleMachineShop.com has one for sale that may fit this lathe (It may not, too
                -- but at least it'll give you a good idea for how to build our own!

                Best of luck,

                --William
              • Joe R
                Jon My Phase II tool post very plainly says Made in China . I also have a Harbor Freight one that was made in India. Not so good. Joe ... From: Jon Elson To:
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 2, 2007
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                  Jon

                  My Phase II tool post very plainly says "Made in China". I also have a Harbor Freight one that was made in India. Not so good.

                  Joe
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Jon Elson
                  To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 1:50 PM
                  Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] updated tool post / chuck / accuracy adjustments


                  Joe R wrote:
                  > The Phase II series 100 is a very good fit. Even though it's Chinese it's of better quality. It's currently on sale at Enco for $89.95 for the piston type. Item NS505-2253 in the April flyer. Here's the free shipping code for purchases over $50. WBARN7 You will have to fit the "T" nut to your compound. A simple job on a milling machine but a circular one can be made on a lathe.
                  I believe they are Taiwanese, not mainland China. There used to
                  be a BIG difference, I think there still is at least a
                  substantial difference in QC and "fit and finish". You won't
                  find a pile of grinder dust in a Phase II tool.

                  Jon




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • n5kzw
                  It might also be worthwhile to remove the chuck and put a DTI on the taper inside the spindle to ensure the spindle is not bent. Regards, Ed ... ...
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 2, 2007
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                    It might also be worthwhile to remove the chuck and put a DTI on the
                    taper inside the spindle to ensure the spindle is not bent.

                    Regards,
                    Ed

                    --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, William Abernathy
                    <william@...> wrote:
                    >
                    <SNIP>
                    >
                    > Bison (made in Poland makes the best cheap chuck in this size.
                    Before you write
                    > off your existing chuck, you should do the following:
                    >
                    > 1) Inspect the mounting threads on both the chuck and the spindle to
                    make sure
                    > there's no swarf or other crud there throwing you off.
                    >
                    > 2) Take the chuck off its backing plate and make sure the backing
                    plate is true
                    > on your machine. It's possible for the chuck to run true on its
                    backing plate,
                    > and the plate to run true on a different lathe, while the plate and
                    chuck mount
                    > all wiggly on yours. The only way to be sure is to verify that the
                    backing plate
                    > runs true, and if not, to true it.
                    >
                    > 3) If the first two tests pass, then you may be able to regrind the
                    jaws to hold
                    > true. You need to do this with the jaws loaded.
                    >
                    > <SNIP>
                    >
                    > Best of luck,
                    >
                    > --William
                    >
                  • Steve
                    ... I have the Phase II piston tool post, AXA size on my 12x36. It s pretty good, and I got it for the sale price of $89 (ENCO is like an oriental rug store
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 2, 2007
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                      >3a. Re: updated tool post / chuck / accuracy adjustments Posted by: "William Abernathy" william@...   Yahuselah Sun Apr 1, 2007 10:00 pm (PST)
                      > redsouljoe wrote:
                      >
                      >The Phase II AXA-compatible post is the way to go.
                      >

                      I have the Phase II piston tool post, AXA size on my 12x36. It's pretty good, and I got it for the "sale" price of $89 (ENCO is like an oriental rug store with the sale on this one).

                      I would reommend the wedge post, if you can afford the difference, as the toolholder on the piston post can rock slightly under heavy load. The wedge supports the entire holder, not just in the center.

                      BTW, get as many tool holders as you can - the turning or turning/boring conbination ones. If you have to keep swapping out the bits in them, it ain't quick change. Littlemachineshop.com seems to have the cheapest price, although I do not know anything about the quality, as I have not ordered any from them yet. If anyone has, pleaase add comments.

                      As far as the chuck questions, see:
                      http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?t=76429
                      and
                      http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?t=73256

                      for some good information on truing chucks.

                      Steve

                      ________________________________________
                      PeoplePC Online
                      A better way to Internet
                      http://www.peoplepc.com
                    • redsouljoe
                      http://cgi.ebay.com/BISON-3285-3W856-5IN-3-JAW-THREAD-MOUNT-LATHE- CHUCK_W0QQitemZ130095425275QQcategoryZ25292QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem How does this chuck stack
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 3, 2007
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                        http://cgi.ebay.com/BISON-3285-3W856-5IN-3-JAW-THREAD-MOUNT-LATHE-
                        CHUCK_W0QQitemZ130095425275QQcategoryZ25292QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

                        How does this chuck stack up? I feel like a novice for asking, but what
                        is a backing plate? I can only assume it's a threaded adapter plate
                        that screws on the headstock and attahes to the chuck. The only reason
                        I ask is because I have a chuck that screws directly on the headstock;
                        seems like it cuts out the middle man. Will this threaded chuck fit my
                        lathe?

                        Thank you for all the replies, I'll take my camera to the shop tomorrow
                        to snap a few pics of my lathe and projects.
                      • redsouljoe
                        http://cgi.ebay.com/BISON-3285-3W856-5IN-3-JAW-THREAD-MOUNt-LATHE- CHUCK_W0QQitemZ130095425275QQcategoryZ25292QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem try this link, and if it
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 3, 2007
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                          http://cgi.ebay.com/BISON-3285-3W856-5IN-3-JAW-THREAD-MOUNt-LATHE-
                          CHUCK_W0QQitemZ130095425275QQcategoryZ25292QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

                          try this link, and if it still won't work it's ebay item 130095425275
                        • Jon Elson
                          ... You are right about what the backing plate is. The reason for it is that the plate can be machined to run perfectly true on YOUR lathe spindle. Then, the
                          Message 12 of 16 , Apr 3, 2007
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                            redsouljoe wrote:
                            > http://cgi.ebay.com/BISON-3285-3W856-5IN-3-JAW-THREAD-MOUNT-LATHE-
                            > CHUCK_W0QQitemZ130095425275QQcategoryZ25292QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
                            >
                            > How does this chuck stack up? I feel like a novice for asking, but what
                            > is a backing plate? I can only assume it's a threaded adapter plate
                            > that screws on the headstock and attahes to the chuck. The only reason
                            > I ask is because I have a chuck that screws directly on the headstock;
                            > seems like it cuts out the middle man. Will this threaded chuck fit my
                            > lathe?
                            You are right about what the backing plate is. The reason for
                            it is that the plate can be machined to run perfectly true on
                            YOUR lathe spindle. Then, the precision-machined chuck body
                            will bolt onto a surface that runs exactly true. If there are
                            dings, slight warpage, etc. on the spindle, the chuck will still
                            run true.

                            The 1.5-8 thread should fit any 10 or 12" Atlas or
                            Atlas/Craftsman lathe.

                            Jon
                          • Brett Jones
                            Looks like the auction has closed with a buy it now , did you buy it? I bought and installed a similar Bison chuck through Enco a week ago or so. I think I
                            Message 13 of 16 , Apr 3, 2007
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                              Looks like the auction has closed with a "buy it now", did you buy it? I
                              bought and installed a similar Bison chuck through Enco a week ago or
                              so. I think I paid around $170 for the chuck alone. If this auction was
                              for the same part, it was a very fair price.

                              I got the plain back chuck with a pre-threaded Bison backing plate.
                              Cutting the shoulder on the backing plate was simple enough but drilling
                              the mounting holes would have been a pain had I not had a rotary table
                              to space out the 3 holes in the bolt circle.

                              redsouljoe wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > http://cgi.ebay.com/BISON-3285-3W856-5IN-3-JAW-THREAD-MOUNT-LATHE-
                              > <http://cgi.ebay.com/BISON-3285-3W856-5IN-3-JAW-THREAD-MOUNT-LATHE->
                              > CHUCK_W0QQitemZ130095425275QQcategoryZ25292QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
                              >
                              > How does this chuck stack up? I feel like a novice for asking, but what
                              > is a backing plate? I can only assume it's a threaded adapter plate
                              > that screws on the headstock and attahes to the chuck. The only reason
                              > I ask is because I have a chuck that screws directly on the headstock;
                              > seems like it cuts out the middle man. Will this threaded chuck fit my
                              > lathe?
                              >
                              > Thank you for all the replies, I'll take my camera to the shop tomorrow
                              > to snap a few pics of my lathe and projects.

                              --
                              Brett Jones
                              brett@...
                            • n8as1@aol.com
                              In a message dated 4/3/2007 11:57:19 A.M. Central Daylight Time, brett@5foot2.com writes: I got the plain back chuck with a pre-threaded Bison backing plate.
                              Message 14 of 16 , Apr 3, 2007
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                                In a message dated 4/3/2007 11:57:19 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
                                brett@... writes:

                                I got the plain back chuck with a pre-threaded Bison backing plate.
                                Cutting the shoulder on the backing plate was simple enough but drilling
                                the mounting holes would have been a pain had I not had a rotary table
                                to space out the 3 holes in the bolt circle.




                                FWIW w/ out a rotary ( i have one but think this might be quicker)...last
                                six or so new chucks i fitted had bolt circle dim.on instructions ....measured
                                off finished b/plate od & scribed a circle w/ lathe tool...then indexed &
                                marked w/ crftsmn h/stock indexer, ...used bull gear teeth & a file bearing
                                couple places on bed & h/stock casting for 14 in antique ....made an index bar
                                for gear teeth on wards logan ......
                                best wishes
                                docn8as



                                ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • redsouljoe
                                http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f264/hendrixsolo/Picture045.jpg http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f264/hendrixsolo/Picture047.jpg Here are a few pics of my
                                Message 15 of 16 , Apr 3, 2007
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                                  http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f264/hendrixsolo/Picture045.jpg
                                  http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f264/hendrixsolo/Picture047.jpg

                                  Here are a few pics of my lathe. I plan on giving it a thorough
                                  cleaning and a bit of a polish (chrome, anyone?) but first off I
                                  need to update the lathe to make it perform.

                                  I'm sold on the backing plate/chuck combo rather than just a threaded
                                  chuck. It seems like the much more accurate way to run. Still a few
                                  more questions though...

                                  http://cgi.ebay.com/5-Bison-Chuck-Backplate-1-1-2-
                                  8_W0QQitemZ320099469940QQcategoryZ25292QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

                                  Ebay Item 320099469940

                                  As I understand it, I simply need to mount this plate to the spindle
                                  then face the plate to make it run true for my lathe. After that I
                                  bolt the plate to the chuck and presto.

                                  Since the backplate is made fr a bison chuck, will the chuck have
                                  corresponding bolt holes already drilled in it? The reason I ask is
                                  because I don't have a very accurate drill press or a mill, so I'm
                                  not sure how I would accurately attach the chuck if it doesn't have
                                  holes already.

                                  Thanks again for all the help, I really appreciate it.
                                • William Abernathy
                                  ... You also need to cut a bit of a recess around the edge. When you look at the plain back chuck, you ll see it has a bit of a rim to it. You need to cut
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Apr 4, 2007
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                                    redsouljoe wrote:
                                    > As I understand it, I simply need to mount this plate to the spindle
                                    > then face the plate to make it run true for my lathe. After that I
                                    > bolt the plate to the chuck and presto.

                                    You also need to cut a bit of a recess around the edge. When you look at the
                                    "plain back" chuck, you'll see it has a bit of a rim to it. You need to cut
                                    enough off the edges that you have a solid connection between the plate (male)
                                    and the chuck (female).

                                    Pardon my ASCII...
                                    |
                                    _
                                    |
                                    plate > | < chuck
                                    |
                                    _
                                    |

                                    > Since the backplate is made fr a bison chuck, will the chuck have
                                    > corresponding bolt holes already drilled in it? The reason I ask is
                                    > because I don't have a very accurate drill press or a mill, so I'm
                                    > not sure how I would accurately attach the chuck if it doesn't have
                                    > holes already.

                                    If you can cut the pokey-inny part of the plate accurately with your lathe, then
                                    you can cut your bolt holes with a lot of slop. The accuracy of the bolt holes
                                    is not critical; the accuracy of the plate is.

                                    The only other gotcha with Bison chucks is that they're not always the most
                                    convenient size. My 6" Bison chuck requires a 6 1/4" backing plate. YMMV.

                                    --W
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