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headstock bearing replacement

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  • morris_taper
    Hello Can anyone point me to a source for the bearing info for a craftsman (atlas) 12x24 change gear lathe... ? thanks Eric
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 19, 2006
      Hello
      Can anyone point me to a source for the bearing info for a
      craftsman (atlas) 12x24 change gear lathe... ? thanks Eric
    • Joe R
      Morris. Are your head stock bearings babbit or Timken roller bearings? If there s a removable cap like on cars with 2 bolts on the crankshaft bearings they
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 20, 2006
        Morris.

        Are your head stock bearings babbit or Timken roller bearings? If there's a removable "cap" like on cars with 2 bolts on the crankshaft bearings they are babbit. Make sure they are always oiled. There's shim packs for adjustments. The Timken roller bearings are replaceable and I believe adjustable. If you need new ones I understand they are not cheap.

        Joe

        ---- Original Message -----
        From: morris_taper
        To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 2:44 AM
        Subject: [atlas_craftsman] headstock bearing replacement


        Hello
        Can anyone point me to a source for the bearing info for a
        craftsman (atlas) 12x24 change gear lathe... ? thanks Eric





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jon Elson
        ... Here s a clip from Tom s message from 2003. As far as I know, all 10 and 12 Timken bearing lathes use the same bearing set. 16150: Big Cone 16284B: Big
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 20, 2006
          morris_taper wrote:

          >Hello
          > Can anyone point me to a source for the bearing info for a
          >craftsman (atlas) 12x24 change gear lathe... ? thanks Eric
          >
          >
          >

          Here's a clip from Tom's message from 2003. As far as I know,
          all 10 and 12" Timken bearing lathes use the same bearing set.

          16150: Big Cone
          16284B: Big Cup
          14125A: Small Cone
          14276B: Small Cup

          Thanks, Tom, for writing it down.

          Jon
        • Dave Clements
          I need some suggestions on how to setup and cut a very thin taper adapter. I have an Indian motorcycle flywheel that was damaged in the taper for pinion
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 27, 2006
            I need some suggestions on how to setup and cut a very thin taper
            adapter. I have an Indian motorcycle flywheel that was damaged in the
            taper for pinion shaft and after it was re cut the taper is too large.
            Since this bike had a taper adapter to allow the use of a smaller
            pinion shaft I would like to cut a thicker adapter.

            Dave Clements
            Sport Scouts & Antique Electronics




            >
          • sherwood shute
            how about a straight pin and then weld it in the hole like they do on japanese cranks-sherwood Dave Clements wrote: I need
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 28, 2006
              how about a straight pin and then weld it in the hole like they do on japanese cranks-sherwood

              Dave Clements <clements@...> wrote: I need some suggestions on how to setup and cut a very thin taper
              adapter. I have an Indian motorcycle flywheel that was damaged in the
              taper for pinion shaft and after it was re cut the taper is too large.
              Since this bike had a taper adapter to allow the use of a smaller
              pinion shaft I would like to cut a thicker adapter.

              Dave Clements
              Sport Scouts & Antique Electronics

              >





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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • William Abernathy
              Carefully measure the taper angle (don t assume! Measure both parts to be sure...), set your compound slide, and start turning. If the inside and outside
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 28, 2006
                Carefully measure the taper angle (don't assume! Measure both parts to be
                sure...), set your compound slide, and start turning. If the inside and outside
                angles are the same, start with the outside cut, because you can more easily
                measure the taper, either as an angle or as thousandths per inch of bed travel,
                and work your way into the part, refining the taper as you go. Once your taper
                is set perfectly on the compound (and you may have to go through a couple of
                tries to get it right), open up the taper ID with a tailstock-mounted drill,
                then bore out the taper using your compound slide-mounted boring bar.

                If the tapers don't match, start by making a mandrel to match the male end of
                the pinion shaft, then bore the inside diameter of your sleeve to fit that
                taper. Then dial in the outside taper on some sacrificial chunk of metal, and
                once you're confident you've got that taper right, mount up your mandrel,
                indicate it true, and cut the outside taper.

                --William

                Dave Clements wrote:
                > I need some suggestions on how to setup and cut a very thin taper
                > adapter. I have an Indian motorcycle flywheel that was damaged in the
                > taper for pinion shaft and after it was re cut the taper is too large.
                > Since this bike had a taper adapter to allow the use of a smaller
                > pinion shaft I would like to cut a thicker adapter.
                >
                > Dave Clements
                > Sport Scouts & Antique Electronics
              • LouD31M066@aol.com
                Sounds to me like a job for a grinder set up to do a tapered cylinder internal and external... always more than one way to do things so others may have a
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 28, 2006
                  Sounds to me like a job for a grinder set up to do a tapered cylinder
                  internal and external...
                  always more than one way to do things so others may have a different
                  suggested/preferred
                  methods
                  1) the first thing is to determine the tapers involved so grinder can be set
                  up to duplicate
                  2) Atlas had a grinder attachment
                  3) Grinding is a subtrade within machine work...you may have a local
                  grinding shop that will
                  not charge an arm and leg if it is more than you feel comfortable doing
                  4) Lathe finish on taper may be too rough for a taper lock
                  Just my opinion
                  Louis



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Jim Bosley
                  Yeah, I think that these are the same numbers as the ones I found on my Ten. Be prepared to spend over $200 for both sets of cones and cups at a distributor,
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 30, 2006
                    Yeah, I think that these are the same numbers as the ones I found on
                    my Ten. Be prepared to spend over $200 for both sets of cones and
                    cups at a distributor, and a little more from Clausing. Least that's
                    what I was quoted recently.

                    As I understand it, you DON'T need the higher-precision bearings.
                    These apparently are custom made by Timken, require an interview with
                    their engineers, require a couple months lead time (they are made to
                    order), and cost, well, one can only guess. Might be cheaper to find
                    a used Hardinge in good condition!

                    I was going to change out my bearings but I couldn't find any visible
                    problems in the set. So I'm going to get everything stripped, get any
                    rust off the castings, and paint the thing, then reassemble. I will
                    test runout after proper assembly and pre-loading. Crossing my
                    fingers that there is still life in the bearing set.

                    Jim



                    --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, Jon Elson <elson@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > morris_taper wrote:
                    >
                    > >Hello
                    > > Can anyone point me to a source for the bearing info for a
                    > >craftsman (atlas) 12x24 change gear lathe... ? thanks Eric
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > Here's a clip from Tom's message from 2003. As far as I know,
                    > all 10 and 12" Timken bearing lathes use the same bearing set.
                    >
                    > 16150: Big Cone
                    > 16284B: Big Cup
                    > 14125A: Small Cone
                    > 14276B: Small Cup
                    >
                    > Thanks, Tom, for writing it down.
                    >
                    > Jon
                    >
                  • Lucas Thompson
                    It doesn t make sense. I replaced mine a month ago and it was something like $42 for all 4 parts shipped. Timken 14125A and a few others I don t have in front
                    Message 9 of 12 , Aug 31, 2006
                      It doesn't make sense. I replaced mine a month ago and it was something
                      like $42 for all 4 parts shipped. Timken 14125A and a few others I don't
                      have in front of me. I started looking up the prices on EB Atmus's site.
                      Those 16284B and 14276B are expensive.The "B" must mean "Gold Plated".
                      My 4800 lathe uses the cheaper non-B versions of the cups.

                      Still the prices of those parts are only $141 from EB Atmus. IME those
                      guys are helpful and fine to deal with.



                      ________________________________

                      From: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Bosley
                      Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 6:49 PM
                      To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: headstock bearing replacement



                      Yeah, I think that these are the same numbers as the ones I found on
                      my Ten. Be prepared to spend over $200 for both sets of cones and
                      cups at a distributor, and a little more from Clausing. Least that's
                      what I was quoted recently.

                      As I understand it, you DON'T need the higher-precision bearings.
                      These apparently are custom made by Timken, require an interview with
                      their engineers, require a couple months lead time (they are made to
                      order), and cost, well, one can only guess. Might be cheaper to find
                      a used Hardinge in good condition!

                      I was going to change out my bearings but I couldn't find any visible
                      problems in the set. So I'm going to get everything stripped, get any
                      rust off the castings, and paint the thing, then reassemble. I will
                      test runout after proper assembly and pre-loading. Crossing my
                      fingers that there is still life in the bearing set.

                      Jim

                      --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                      <mailto:atlas_craftsman%40yahoogroups.com> , Jon Elson <elson@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > morris_taper wrote:
                      >
                      > >Hello
                      > > Can anyone point me to a source for the bearing info for a
                      > >craftsman (atlas) 12x24 change gear lathe... ? thanks Eric
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > Here's a clip from Tom's message from 2003. As far as I know,
                      > all 10 and 12" Timken bearing lathes use the same bearing set.
                      >
                      > 16150: Big Cone
                      > 16284B: Big Cup
                      > 14125A: Small Cone
                      > 14276B: Small Cup
                      >
                      > Thanks, Tom, for writing it down.
                      >
                      > Jon
                      >
                    • Bob May
                      The accuracy of the bearing in manufacturing determines the price. If you chose to use the cheaper bearing, you re probably going to have a bit worse runout
                      Message 10 of 12 , Aug 31, 2006
                        The accuracy of the bearing in manufacturing determines the
                        price. If you chose to use the cheaper bearing, you're probably
                        going to have a bit worse runout and so forth of the spindle than
                        the proper bearings would give. If you're happy with the reduced
                        spec, then, by all means, use the lesser quality bearings.
                        Then again, you may fall into luck with the installation and get
                        all fo the tolerances set in such a way that the bearings run as
                        true as the higher priced spread - tolerance is tolerance and all
                        it says is that it is somewhere in that range of values.
                        Bob May
                        bobmay at nethere.com
                        http: slash /nav.to slash bobmay
                        http: slash /bobmay dot astronomy.net
                        Replace the obvious words with the proper character.
                      • LouD31M066@aol.com
                        For the most part bearing pricing is a function of volume and competition....unique items available from a single source tend to be at the high end of range
                        Message 11 of 12 , Aug 31, 2006
                          For the most part bearing pricing is a function of volume and
                          competition....unique items available from a single source tend to be at the high end of
                          range while garden variety available from several sources tend to be modestly
                          priced. Bearing supplier makes more
                          profit selling a quantity of modestly priced bearings and carries the
                          oddball rare items
                          only as a service to their customers who might need one once every couple of
                          decades.
                          Louis


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Jim Bosley
                          Lucas, At $42, I hope you bought two sets! I can t explain the difference, either. There are a signficant range of prices (I found a part for my hot-tub pump
                          Message 12 of 12 , Sep 1, 2006
                            Lucas,

                            At $42, I hope you bought two sets! I can't explain the difference,
                            either. There are a signficant range of prices (I found a part for my
                            hot-tub pump ranged from $109 to $13 depending upon whom on the
                            internet that I bought it from).

                            Different companies price differently according to business model and
                            market conditions. Some price high and expect low volume, high
                            margin. Some price low and expect high volume on a low margin. Some
                            folks (mostly naive or overly hopeful ebay newbies) price ridiculously
                            high or low. Like the South Bend Heavy Ten that went a few weeks ago
                            for a buy-it-new price of $300.

                            For Timken bearings the "A" suffix means different OD/ID or roller
                            complement. "B" means flanged, so your lathe may use retaining rings
                            or a different bore/shoulder configuration I guess.

                            Thanks for the lead about EB Atmus. I plan to reassemble my lathe
                            after cleaning and and painting to see what my runout looks like
                            before I pop for new bearings. In case others would find it useful:
                            http://www.ebatmus.com/ is the link for this Springfield, Mass,
                            company (I have no affiliation with them).

                            Best,

                            Jim


                            --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "Lucas Thompson"
                            <Lucas.Thompson@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > It doesn't make sense. I replaced mine a month ago and it was something
                            > like $42 for all 4 parts shipped. Timken 14125A and a few others I don't
                            > have in front of me. I started looking up the prices on EB Atmus's site.
                            > Those 16284B and 14276B are expensive.The "B" must mean "Gold Plated".
                            > My 4800 lathe uses the cheaper non-B versions of the cups.
                            >
                            > Still the prices of those parts are only $141 from EB Atmus. IME those
                            > guys are helpful and fine to deal with.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ________________________________
                            >
                            > From: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                            > [mailto:atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Bosley
                            > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 6:49 PM
                            > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: headstock bearing replacement
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yeah, I think that these are the same numbers as the ones I found on
                            > my Ten. Be prepared to spend over $200 for both sets of cones and
                            > cups at a distributor, and a little more from Clausing. Least that's
                            > what I was quoted recently.
                            >
                            > As I understand it, you DON'T need the higher-precision bearings.
                            > These apparently are custom made by Timken, require an interview with
                            > their engineers, require a couple months lead time (they are made to
                            > order), and cost, well, one can only guess. Might be cheaper to find
                            > a used Hardinge in good condition!
                            >
                            > I was going to change out my bearings but I couldn't find any visible
                            > problems in the set. So I'm going to get everything stripped, get any
                            > rust off the castings, and paint the thing, then reassemble. I will
                            > test runout after proper assembly and pre-loading. Crossing my
                            > fingers that there is still life in the bearing set.
                            >
                            > Jim
                            >
                            > --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                            > <mailto:atlas_craftsman%40yahoogroups.com> , Jon Elson <elson@>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > morris_taper wrote:
                            > >
                            > > >Hello
                            > > > Can anyone point me to a source for the bearing info for a
                            > > >craftsman (atlas) 12x24 change gear lathe... ? thanks Eric
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > Here's a clip from Tom's message from 2003. As far as I know,
                            > > all 10 and 12" Timken bearing lathes use the same bearing set.
                            > >
                            > > 16150: Big Cone
                            > > 16284B: Big Cup
                            > > 14125A: Small Cone
                            > > 14276B: Small Cup
                            > >
                            > > Thanks, Tom, for writing it down.
                            > >
                            > > Jon
                            > >
                            >
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