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Quick change tool post for 10F

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  • Paul
    Sorry this question has probably been asked previously but I am unable to find answers through a search I am after a quick change tool post for the Atlas 10F
    Message 1 of 17 , Dec 1, 2005
      Sorry this question has probably been asked previously but I am unable
      to find answers through a search

      I am after a quick change tool post for the Atlas 10F and notice there
      are many variations (available on ebay)
      Are there any advantages/disadvantages to the wedge, dovetail, or
      piston types of tool posts. Also there seems to be a large variation
      on post sizes...many being 1&1/2" square, which is smaller than what
      came with my lathe originally,...should I not need something a little
      taller/larger

      many thanks

      Paul
    • Jon Elson
      ... Nearly all of these QC toolposts use a dovetail to repeatably hold the tool holder. The method of clamping is either by expanding one side of the inner
      Message 2 of 17 , Dec 1, 2005
        Paul wrote:

        >Sorry this question has probably been asked previously but I am unable
        >to find answers through a search
        >
        >I am after a quick change tool post for the Atlas 10F and notice there
        >are many variations (available on ebay)
        >Are there any advantages/disadvantages to the wedge, dovetail, or
        >piston types of tool posts. Also there seems to be a large variation
        >on post sizes...many being 1&1/2" square, which is smaller than what
        >came with my lathe originally,...should I not need something a little
        >taller/larger
        >
        >
        Nearly all of these QC toolposts use a dovetail to repeatably hold the
        tool holder. The method of clamping is either by expanding one side of the
        inner dovetail with a tapered wedge, or forcing the holder outward with
        a "piston" or cam-actuated plunger. For the smaller lathes, I really
        don't think
        there is any advantage to the wedge design. The Phase-II 100 series, or any
        compatible with Aloris' or Dorian Tool's AXA series will be fine on these
        lathes. The tool height adjustment range is just fine for them. You
        want to
        get something that is compatible with an industry standard so you can get
        additional holders at a later date, if desired.

        If you get a larger series, you will not be able to lower the tool to
        centerline
        in some cases. Also, the 10" lathes have a "hump" on the back of the
        compound
        slide, and even the 100/AXA series posts interfere with it. Most people
        make a 1/8" or so thick ring to put under the post to clear the hump,
        others grind a corner off the post to clear. I used the Phase-II 100
        series post on my 10" Atlas, and was VERY happy with it. I doubt your
        Atlas was shipped from the factory with a 4-way post. The original
        "lantern"
        post was probably 3/4" diameter. The holders for the QC posts are longer
        than the post is wide, and can hold a tool in each end at the same time with
        minimal extension. It may not actually be more solid than a 4-way post,
        but it is a lot more versatile. The big advantage is total repeatability
        of position. If you know that bringing the leadscrew dial to a reading of
        123 gives you the right final diameter on a part, then you can swap the
        holder,
        swap it back for the next part, and bring the handle to 123, and you
        will get
        the same diameter. If you ever make 2 or more complicated parts that
        need multiple tools, you will come to appreciate this feature!

        Jon
      • Bob May
        The smallest size in the series is usually the right size for your 10 lathe. As to piston vs. wedge (I think taht all of them are dovetail mating surfaces so
        Message 3 of 17 , Dec 1, 2005
          The smallest size in the series is usually the right size for
          your 10" lathe.
          As to piston vs. wedge (I think taht all of them are dovetail
          mating surfaces so that isn't a choice), you sort of need to make
          a choice mostly based upon what floats your balloon more than any
          real difference in performacne, kind of like making a choice
          between a Corvette and a Viper.
          Any of the brand name toolposts will do more than you realllly
          need for them to do so buy whatever you like.
          Bob May
          bobmay at nethere.com
          http: slash /nav.to slash bobmay
          http: slash /bobmay dot astronomy.net
          Replace the obvious words with the proper character.
        • William Abernathy
          Get a Phase II 100-series (Aloris AXA-compatible) post. You can usually get one for 89 bucks on sale from Enco, and it will hold the tool more steadily than
          Message 4 of 17 , Dec 1, 2005
            Get a Phase II 100-series (Aloris AXA-compatible) post. You can usually get one
            for 89 bucks on sale from Enco, and it will hold the tool more steadily than
            the Atlas lathe underneath it can. The distinction between piston and wedge
            makes a difference with larger lathes doing higher-precision work than you'll
            achieve with your Atlas. That, and in the dent in your wallet that a wedge
            holder will make.

            --W

            Paul wrote:
            > Sorry this question has probably been asked previously but I am unable
            > to find answers through a search
            >
            > I am after a quick change tool post for the Atlas 10F and notice there
            > are many variations (available on ebay)
            > Are there any advantages/disadvantages to the wedge, dovetail, or
            > piston types of tool posts. Also there seems to be a large variation
            > on post sizes...many being 1&1/2" square, which is smaller than what
            > came with my lathe originally,...should I not need something a little
            > taller/larger
            >
            > many thanks
            >
            > Paul
          • Steve
            I have the Phase II 100 QC tool post and I love it, but I have noticed one problem. When using the cutoff tool, the holder was located somewhat low. That put
            Message 5 of 17 , Dec 2, 2005
              I have the Phase II 100 QC tool post and I love it, but I have noticed one problem. When using the cutoff tool, the holder was located somewhat low. That put the piston high on the tool post and I got some chatter as the bottom 1/2 of holder was unsupported and it was rocking using the piston as a fulcrum. The wedge holder may not have that problem.

              With all the other tool holders, my experience has been excellent and I would recommend it.

              One minor thing I have found is that the allen screws which tighten the bits are weak. You can feel the metal yielding when you tighten, and some of the heads would not let the allen key in a all. I replaced them with some from Home Depot and they are fine. You may want to order a bunch of the appropriate metric screws from Enco when you order the toolpost (don't remember the size, but I can look it up). You can't use screws with heads, as they won't clear the adjusting knob (been there).

              Steve


              >From: William Abernathy <william@...>
              >Subject: Re: Quick change tool post for 10F
              >Get a Phase II 100-series (Aloris AXA-compatible) post. You can usually get one
              >for 89 bucks on sale from Enco, and it will hold the tool more steadily than
              >the Atlas lathe underneath it can. The distinction between piston and wedge
              >makes a difference with larger lathes doing higher-precision work than you'll
              >achieve with your Atlas. That, and in the dent in your wallet that a wedge
              >holder will make.


              ________________________________________
              PeoplePC Online
              A better way to Internet
              http://www.peoplepc.com
            • Bob May
              Steve, you shouldn t be putting much pressure on the allen screws. Loosen up the lock and move the toolholder up/down and then relock it and you will find
              Message 6 of 17 , Dec 2, 2005
                Steve, you shouldn't be putting much pressure on the allen
                screws. Loosen up the lock and move the toolholder up/down and
                then relock it and you will find that the life of the screws to
                be a lot longer.
                Bob May
                bobmay at nethere.com
                http: slash /nav.to slash bobmay
                http: slash /bobmay dot astronomy.net
                Replace the obvious words with the proper character.
              • Steve
                I don t think I m putting all that much pressure on them. I m only using a small allan wrench, and I m not hammering it. :-) Some of the heads were so
                Message 7 of 17 , Dec 2, 2005
                  I don't think I'm putting all that much pressure on them. I'm only using a small allan wrench, and I'm not hammering it. :-)

                  Some of the heads were so mal-formed that the allen key wouldn't even go in.

                  BTW, I'm talking about the little ones that hold the tool bit in place, not the big allen screw that has the height adjustment nuts on it, which is what you may be referring to. Those are fine.

                  Steve

                  >From: "Bob May" <bobmay@...>
                  >Subject: Re: Re: Quick change tool post for 10F
                  >Steve, you shouldn't be putting much pressure on the allen
                  >screws. Loosen up the lock and move the toolholder up/down and
                  >then relock it and you will find that the life of the screws to
                  >be a lot longer.
                  >Bob May


                  ________________________________________
                  PeoplePC Online
                  A better way to Internet
                  http://www.peoplepc.com
                • Jon Elson
                  ... I m sure he s talking about the screws that hold the 3/8 tools in the holders. And, you DO have to lock them down pretty tight or the tools will slip. I
                  Message 8 of 17 , Dec 2, 2005
                    Bob May wrote:

                    >Steve, you shouldn't be putting much pressure on the allen
                    >screws. Loosen up the lock and move the toolholder up/down and
                    >then relock it and you will find that the life of the screws to
                    >be a lot longer.
                    >
                    >
                    I'm sure he's talking about the screws that hold the 3/8" tools
                    in the holders. And, you DO have to lock them down pretty tight
                    or the tools will slip. I had the same problem, but it was not a very
                    serious one.

                    Jon
                  • Jon Elson
                    ... I believe those setscrews may be metric, but an imperial wrench almost fits it, but is just a little loose. Jon
                    Message 9 of 17 , Dec 2, 2005
                      Steve wrote:

                      >I don't think I'm putting all that much pressure on them. I'm only using a small allan wrench, and I'm not hammering it. :-)
                      >
                      >Some of the heads were so mal-formed that the allen key wouldn't even go in.
                      >
                      >BTW, I'm talking about the little ones that hold the tool bit in place, not the big allen screw that has the height adjustment nuts on it, which is what you may be referring to. Those are fine.
                      >
                      >
                      I believe those setscrews may be metric, but an imperial wrench
                      almost fits it, but is just a little loose.

                      Jon
                    • Paul
                      Thanks for all the comments on the tool post variations and options. I have contacted Enco regarding their excellent offer and asked about postage...only to be
                      Message 10 of 17 , Dec 3, 2005
                        Thanks for all the comments on the tool post variations and options.
                        I have contacted Enco regarding their excellent offer and asked about
                        postage...only to be told that it would cost $218 to ship to the UK...

                        a bit expensive considering many sellers on ebay quote $45 by UPS
                        economy post...I'm looking at this as an option...what do you think
                        folks?

                        item number 7559512060

                        > many thanks
                        >
                        > Paul
                        >
                      • Jon Elson
                        ... That s ridiculous. See if they can send it by international parcel post. I haven t sent anything that heavy by post, but I do send commercial items by
                        Message 11 of 17 , Dec 3, 2005
                          Paul wrote:

                          >Thanks for all the comments on the tool post variations and options.
                          >I have contacted Enco regarding their excellent offer and asked about
                          >postage...only to be told that it would cost $218 to ship to the UK...
                          >
                          >a bit expensive considering many sellers on ebay quote $45 by UPS
                          >economy post...I'm looking at this as an option...what do you think
                          >folks?
                          >
                          >
                          That's ridiculous. See if they can send it by international parcel post.
                          I haven't sent anything that heavy by post, but I do send commercial
                          items by post to all sorts of places, and they are MUCH cheaper, although
                          it can be a bit slower. UPS and all other common carriers are VERY
                          expensive for international. They are just price gouging!

                          Jon
                        • Bob May
                          Then I d replace the screws, retapping for an inch setscrew if desired. I hate it when things like that happen and take measures to insure that they don t
                          Message 12 of 17 , Dec 3, 2005
                            Then I'd replace the screws, retapping for an inch setscrew if
                            desired. I hate it when things like that happen and take
                            measures to insure that they don't happen again. If the spacing
                            is far enough apart, I'd even consider hex or square head bolts
                            rather than the allen screws as I've also found that allen
                            screws are nice buy you can't put much force on them. Even just
                            replacing the end screws with bolts works for me.
                            Bob May
                            bobmay at nethere.com
                            http: slash /nav.to slash bobmay
                            http: slash /bobmay dot astronomy.net
                            Replace the obvious words with the proper character.
                          • Steve
                            I tried replacing just the outer two with hex head metric cap screws, and that gives you a much stouter fastener, although you now have the incovenience of
                            Message 13 of 17 , Dec 4, 2005
                              I tried replacing just the outer two with hex head metric cap screws, and that gives you a much stouter fastener, although you now have the incovenience of having to use two separate allen keys. Cap screws on the inner ones would hit the adjusting nut (the larger knurled one, not the hex), but I'm thinking of turning the bolt heads down a bit and/or using a smaller adjusting adjusting nut for clearance.

                              Steve

                              >From: "Bob May" <bobmay@...>
                              >Subject: Re: Re: Re: Quick change tool post for 10F
                              >I'd even consider hex or square head bolts
                              >rather than the allen screws as I've also found that allen
                              >screws are nice buy you can't put much force on them. Even just
                              >replacing the end screws with bolts works for me.
                              >Bob May


                              ________________________________________
                              PeoplePC Online
                              A better way to Internet
                              http://www.peoplepc.com
                            • Paul
                              Well, I have tried every supplier of reasonabley priced tool posts that I can find and they all want over $120 to ship to the UK....in some cases over
                              Message 14 of 17 , Dec 20, 2005
                                Well, I have tried every supplier of reasonabley priced tool posts that I can find and they all want over $120 to ship to the UK....in some cases over $200:(...for a tool post costing $96 to $125....silly money

                                So finally I have purchased one from Discount Machine Shop from EBAY....I hope it fits after all thisX-(. The postage was only $46...a real bargain compared to the others



                                Thanks for all the help

                                Paul :D


                                --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, Jon Elson <elson@p...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Paul wrote:
                                >
                                > >Thanks for all the comments on the tool post variations and options.
                                > >I have contacted Enco regarding their excellent offer and asked about
                                > >postage...only to be told that it would cost $218 to ship to the UK...
                                > >
                                > >a bit expensive considering many sellers on ebay quote $45 by UPS
                                > >economy post...I'm looking at this as an option...what do you think
                                > >folks?
                                > >
                                > >
                                > That's ridiculous. See if they can send it by international parcel post.
                                > I haven't sent anything that heavy by post, but I do send commercial
                                > items by post to all sorts of places, and they are MUCH cheaper, although
                                > it can be a bit slower. UPS and all other common carriers are VERY
                                > expensive for international. They are just price gouging!
                                >
                                > Jon
                                >




                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Bob May
                                If you re in the UK, why didn t you just go down to your local machine shop supply store and save even that much money? I d suspect that your local store
                                Message 15 of 17 , Dec 20, 2005
                                  If you're in the UK, why didn't you just go down to your local
                                  machine shop supply store and save even that much money? I'd
                                  suspect that your local store would have a much better price than
                                  what you paid.
                                  Bob May
                                  bobmay at nethere.com
                                  http: slash /nav.to slash bobmay
                                  http: slash /bobmay dot astronomy.net
                                  Replace the obvious words with the proper character.
                                • Jon Elson
                                  ... /I just sent a box to the UK yesterday, for $8. Of course, it weighed less than a toolpost. I have shipped PC computers to Europe for about $30, and a
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Dec 20, 2005
                                    Paul wrote:

                                    >Well, I have tried every supplier of reasonabley priced tool posts that I can find and they all want over $120 to ship to the UK....in some cases over $200:(...for a tool post costing $96 to $125....silly money
                                    >
                                    >So finally I have purchased one from Discount Machine Shop from EBAY....I hope it fits after all thisX-(. The postage was only $46...a real bargain compared to the others
                                    >
                                    >
                                    /I just sent a box to the UK yesterday, for $8. Of course, it weighed
                                    less than a
                                    toolpost. I have shipped PC computers to Europe for about $30, and a CNC
                                    motion control system for about $75. That weighed a LOT more than a little
                                    toolpost! All of this is with the US Postal Service.

                                    Jon
                                    /
                                  • Brian Squibb
                                    Paul, You might like to save these UK links http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/ http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/ http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/ I have used these and had no
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Dec 21, 2005
                                      Paul,

                                      You might like to save these UK links

                                      http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/
                                      http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/
                                      http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/


                                      I have used these and had no problems

                                      Brian

                                      Maidstone, Kent


                                      Message: 2
                                      Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 19:21:17 -0000
                                      From: "Paul" <paul.louwil@...>
                                      Subject: Re: Quick change tool post for 10F


                                      Well, I have tried every supplier of reasonabley priced tool posts that I
                                      can find and they all want over $120 to ship to the UK....in some cases over
                                      $200:(...for a tool post costing $96 to $125....silly money

                                      So finally I have purchased one from Discount Machine Shop from EBAY....I
                                      hope it fits after all thisX-(. The postage was only $46...a real bargain
                                      compared to the others



                                      Thanks for all the help

                                      Paul :D
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