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Smooth Cuts??? -

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  • chopped50ford
    First, I made my first cut tonight. What fun. I have an old craftsman (atlas) 6 lathe. It is belt driven. Its approx. 1947-1950 model type to give you an
    Message 1 of 14 , Jan 1, 2004
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      First, I made my first cut tonight. What fun.

      I have an old craftsman (atlas) 6" lathe. It is belt driven. Its
      approx. 1947-1950 model type to give you an idea.

      I noticed when cutting along a 6" piece of mild steel that the cross
      screw turns slightly at the same time not making your cuts smooth.
      almost wavy and full of slight ridges in the material. Basically it
      looks like a tree branch. ( think brass fitting or cross screw is
      worn as well, the rocker tool post moves slightly.

      What do I need to keep the tool from doing this. I have to almost
      hold the cross screw handle in one hand, which does not work,
      because I would slip and make it uneven along the way. Can you lock
      the cross screw?

      How should your tool be cut to make a nice smooth surface on mild
      steel. what belt position should the motor and main pulleys be in
      (RPM)

      Any secrets here that can help me.

      Thanks.
    • Alan Barnett
      Hi ... Its good therapy ! ... What I do is...... put a piece of hex in the 3 jaw chuck, let the tool just touch the bar, on a slow feed observe where the free
      Message 2 of 14 , Jan 1, 2004
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        Hi


        > First, I made my first cut tonight. What fun.

        Its good therapy !

        >
        > I have an old craftsman (atlas) 6" lathe. It is belt driven. Its
        > approx. 1947-1950 model type to give you an idea.
        >
        > I noticed when cutting along a 6" piece of mild steel that the cross
        > screw turns slightly at the same time not making your cuts smooth.
        > almost wavy and full of slight ridges in the material. Basically it
        > looks like a tree branch. ( think brass fitting or cross screw is
        > worn as well, the rocker tool post moves slightly.

        What I do is...... put a piece of hex in the 3 jaw chuck, let the tool just
        touch the bar, on a slow feed observe where the 'free play' is,stop the
        lathe then adjust the jib strips appropriately to eliminate movement, repeat
        this process until the free play has gone, as the compound is not needed for
        most straight cuts I usually lock this up.

        > What do I need to keep the tool from doing this. I have to almost
        > hold the cross screw handle in one hand, which does not work,
        > because I would slip and make it uneven along the way. Can you lock
        > the cross screw?
        >
        > How should your tool be cut to make a nice smooth surface on mild
        > steel. what belt position should the motor and main pulleys be in
        > (RPM)

        The cutting tool must be at center height, use a DTI what ever, make sure
        the tool is at center height to the work use packing under the tool.
        The tool must be sharp, with relief ground on it, have a look on the
        Sheerline site I think they give examples there to give you an idea.
        Always use a centre in the tailstock to support the work when not working
        close to the chuck, as you will get chatter the further you move away from
        the chuck.

        After setting and sharpening the tool advance the tool to the work using the
        cross slide, so its just touching the work (if slackened off start again the
        slide must always advance this compensates for ware) turn the chuck towards
        you by hand, advancing the tool very lightly, your tool should make a neat
        sharp cut, if not re-check your previous steps.

        Speed ? There are charts and formulas for this, I would use the lowest speed
        to start with, (not engaging the bull wheel) then change speed when you have
        got the hang of it.

        PLEASE use safety specs its at this stage you might snap the tool !!

        Regards
        Alan


        > Any secrets here that can help me.
        >
        > Thanks.
        >
        >
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      • mertbaker
        See if you can adjust the slop out of the cros & compoubd slides, & get the backlash in the feed screws to as litlle as possible. You want to adjust the gibs
        Message 3 of 14 , Jan 1, 2004
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          See if you can adjust the slop out of the cros & compoubd slides, & get the
          backlash in the feed screws to as litlle as possible. You want to adjust
          the gibs so you can;t wiggle the slides from side to side, but they slide
          smoothly.
          Mert

          MertBaker@...
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Alan Barnett" <aoyt13@...>
          To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 6:04 AM
          Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Smooth Cuts??? -


          > Hi
          >
          >
          > > First, I made my first cut tonight. What fun.
          >
          > Its good therapy !
          >
          > >
          > > I have an old craftsman (atlas) 6" lathe. It is belt driven. Its
          > > approx. 1947-1950 model type to give you an idea.
          > >
          > > I noticed when cutting along a 6" piece of mild steel that the cross
          > > screw turns slightly at the same time not making your cuts smooth.
          > > almost wavy and full of slight ridges in the material. Basically it
          > > looks like a tree branch. ( think brass fitting or cross screw is
          > > worn as well, the rocker tool post moves slightly.
          >
          > What I do is...... put a piece of hex in the 3 jaw chuck, let the tool
          just
          > touch the bar, on a slow feed observe where the 'free play' is,stop the
          > lathe then adjust the jib strips appropriately to eliminate movement,
          repeat
          > this process until the free play has gone, as the compound is not needed
          for
          > most straight cuts I usually lock this up.
          >
          > > What do I need to keep the tool from doing this. I have to almost
          > > hold the cross screw handle in one hand, which does not work,
          > > because I would slip and make it uneven along the way. Can you lock
          > > the cross screw?
          > >
          > > How should your tool be cut to make a nice smooth surface on mild
          > > steel. what belt position should the motor and main pulleys be in
          > > (RPM)
          >
          > The cutting tool must be at center height, use a DTI what ever, make sure
          > the tool is at center height to the work use packing under the tool.
          > The tool must be sharp, with relief ground on it, have a look on the
          > Sheerline site I think they give examples there to give you an idea.
          > Always use a centre in the tailstock to support the work when not working
          > close to the chuck, as you will get chatter the further you move away from
          > the chuck.
          >
          > After setting and sharpening the tool advance the tool to the work using
          the
          > cross slide, so its just touching the work (if slackened off start again
          the
          > slide must always advance this compensates for ware) turn the chuck
          towards
          > you by hand, advancing the tool very lightly, your tool should make a neat
          > sharp cut, if not re-check your previous steps.
          >
          > Speed ? There are charts and formulas for this, I would use the lowest
          speed
          > to start with, (not engaging the bull wheel) then change speed when you
          have
          > got the hang of it.
          >
          > PLEASE use safety specs its at this stage you might snap the tool !!
          >
          > Regards
          > Alan
          >
          >
          > > Any secrets here that can help me.
          > >
          > > Thanks.
          > >
          > >
          > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
          > > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
          > > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > > Atlas-Craftsman Projects list is at
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman_projects/
          > >
          > > To see or edit your personal settings, view the photos, files or links
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
          > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
          > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
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          >
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          >
          > To see or edit your personal settings, view the photos, files or links
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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          >
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          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
        • stertrac
          You got some good adivce already but your rocker tool post moves? Do you mean the tool holder actually wiggles around? It shouldn t if you tighten it down
          Message 4 of 14 , Jan 1, 2004
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            You got some good adivce already but your rocker tool post moves?
            Do you mean the tool holder actually wiggles around? It shouldn't if
            you tighten it down with no debris between the assorted parts. That
            could cause problems too. That and make sure your actual cutting
            tool is firmly tightened.
          • Buckshot
            ... You need to tighten the gibs on the cross slide and take any play out of the screw with the adjustments provided. ... This varies with the diameter of the
            Message 5 of 14 , Jan 1, 2004
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              Comments in among:

              >
              > What do I need to keep the tool from doing this. I have to almost
              > hold the cross screw handle in one hand, which does not work,
              > because I would slip and make it uneven along the way. Can you lock
              > the cross screw?
              >

              You need to tighten the gibs on the cross slide and take any play out of the
              screw with the adjustments provided.

              >
              > How should your tool be cut to make a nice smooth surface on mild
              > steel. what belt position should the motor and main pulleys be in
              > (RPM)
              >

              This varies with the diameter of the workpiece, the type of material and the
              finish desired (finish can be ignored until nearing final dimensions).

              You get this from a speed and rate of feed chart. You use a formula to find
              the proper speed and rate of feed for your work, then you set your lathe to
              match or come in slightly below these settings. All of this can be gotten
              from the Atlas Manual of Lathe Operations and Machinists Handbook. Tool
              grinding instructions and shapes can be gotten from the same source.

              >
              > Any secrets here that can help me.
              >
              > Thanks.
              >

              Buckshot
            • chopped50ford
              What is a gib? is that the adjustment screws on the side. My play in on the cross-slide unit that moves perpendicular to the lathe. My handle (attatched to
              Message 6 of 14 , Jan 1, 2004
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                What is a gib? is that the adjustment screws on the side. My play
                in on the cross-slide unit that moves perpendicular to the lathe.
                My handle (attatched to the cross-slide screw) shows some play. I
                can grab the top mounted piece (not the tool holder) and actually
                move it by hand or wiggle it ever so slightly.

                Sorry for not knowing the terminology.

                Thanks so far for the help.
              • Brian Sherwood
                Yep. A gib is a piece that goes in between the two halves of a dovetail slide [so named because in cross-section it looks like a furniture dovetail joint]
                Message 7 of 14 , Jan 2, 2004
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                  Yep. A 'gib' is a piece that goes in between the two halves of a
                  dovetail slide [so named because in cross-section it looks like a
                  furniture dovetail joint] on one side. Typically most lathes have a
                  line of setscrews down one side of the cross-slide and another down
                  one side of the compound, that bear on their respective gibs to
                  provide adjustability for wear and also a means to lock their
                  respective slide in place.

                  If I understand you right, you can grab the toolpost [which should be
                  firmly attached to the top half of the compound] and rattle it around-
                  -a pretty good indicator either your compound gib or yuour cross-
                  slide gib is set too loose.
                  [Some machine tools have a tapered gib that works with a wedging
                  action with one adjuster screw on the end but I don't think that
                  applies to yours.]

                  From what pics I have access to, on the Atlas/Cratfsman 6", with the
                  compound crank facing you there's a line of 4 setscrews down the
                  right side of the compound with locknuts on them. There should be a
                  similar arrangement for the cross-slide itself but I can't tell from
                  the pics I have.

                  Anyway try loosening the locknuts on those 4 setscrews and adjusting
                  the setscrews tighter and looser while playing with the amount
                  of 'shake' and cranking on the feed crank, and you'll soon understand
                  how they function.

                  Tell ya hwat--any chance you can post a few pics of your lathe from
                  different angles so we know exactly which model you have and maybe
                  mark a few arrows on them and stuff and email back to you?

                  --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "chopped50ford"
                  <chopped50ford@y...> wrote:
                  > What is a gib? is that the adjustment screws on the side. My play
                  > in on the cross-slide unit that moves perpendicular to the lathe.
                  > My handle (attatched to the cross-slide screw) shows some play. I
                  > can grab the top mounted piece (not the tool holder) and actually
                  > move it by hand or wiggle it ever so slightly.
                  >
                  > Sorry for not knowing the terminology.
                  >
                  > Thanks so far for the help.
                • LouD31M066@aol.com
                  I have said this before ,but, maybe tis time to say it again...do not assume the problem is with gib adjustment...in my case the cross slide casting was warped
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jan 2, 2004
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                    I have said this before ,but, maybe tis time to say it again...do not assume
                    the
                    problem is with gib adjustment...in my case the cross slide casting was
                    warped
                    ...a problem solveable in two ways a) another cross slide or b) a very good
                    person
                    who knows how to setup and precision grind to better than original specs. I
                    was fortunate in having option b available.
                    Test cross slide by setting it on ways toward least worn tail stock end and
                    see
                    if it will set flat or if it rocks...if it does not set flat it was either
                    not made to a very
                    high standard or casting has warped....since dove tail is part of same
                    casting it
                    can not be any better and may be worse. If dove tail surface is not correct
                    it will not
                    have a uniform contact for gib and you will not be able to adjust as it will
                    be too
                    tight in some places and too loose in others sort of like the worn ways
                    situation.
                    Once bed and cross slide (and dove tail) were properly ground
                    I was struck at how a quality snug yet smooth feel was imparted to lathe.
                    I wonder how much chatter is due to uneven bearing surfaces in compound, dove
                    tail
                    cross slide and ways?
                    My 0.000000000002 cents worth
                    Louis


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • chopped50ford
                    My cross way slide is smoth, it moves from play in the cross way screw. Its probably worn...and I need to get another. Im guessing the gib adjustment are the
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jan 4, 2004
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                      My cross way slide is smoth, it moves from play in the cross way
                      screw. Its probably worn...and I need to get another. Im guessing
                      the gib adjustment are the screws on the sides that tighten the
                      crossmovement? I adjusted the easy movement with a little tightness.
                    • chopped50ford
                      Okay, I did adjust the gibs. and tightened it up a bit. As for picts. I would do it if only I knew how. I very much appreciate all of the help im getting so
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jan 4, 2004
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                        Okay, I did adjust the gibs. and tightened it up a bit.

                        As for picts. I would do it if only I knew how.

                        I very much appreciate all of the help im getting so far. Its
                        incredible and too bad we all dont work in the same shop together.

                        cheers!!
                      • Jon Elson
                        ... The gib should be tightened to keep the cross slide from rocking or any looseness. Tightening it to try to compensate for backlash in the screw will just
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jan 4, 2004
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                          chopped50ford wrote:

                          >My cross way slide is smoth, it moves from play in the cross way
                          >screw. Its probably worn...and I need to get another. Im guessing
                          >the gib adjustment are the screws on the sides that tighten the
                          >crossmovement? I adjusted the easy movement with a little tightness.
                          >
                          >
                          The gib should be tightened to keep the cross slide from rocking or any
                          looseness. Tightening it to try to compensate for backlash in the
                          screw will just lead to even faster wear. The nuts on the handle can be
                          adjusted to take out almost all the free play in the thrust bearing for the
                          leadscrew. There is no provision for removing the backlash on the
                          leadscrew/nut, however. (Some high-end lathes have backlash compensating
                          nuts that allow you to reduce backlash to a very small value.) The only
                          solutions I know of are to apply Moglice or other castable liner material
                          in the nut, or to make or buy a new nut. They really aren't that hard to
                          make. (Note that the cross slide screw is LEFT hand! I missed that little
                          detail when I made a new screw and nut!)

                          Jon
                        • mertbaker
                          The cross slide nut was badly worn on one of my lathes. I repairded it with some thread restorer goop from loctite that I bot in an auto parts store. Seems
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jan 4, 2004
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                            The cross slide nut was badly worn on one of my lathes. I repairded it with
                            some "thread restorer" goop from loctite that I bot in an auto parts store.
                            Seems there are several other brands, too. Claim is, the resored nut is
                            equal to grade 5 strength. all I know, is the slop is gone, and to follow
                            the instructions exactly, or else.
                            Mert

                            MertBaker@...
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Jon Elson" <elson@...>
                            To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 9:56 PM
                            Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Smooth Cuts??? -


                            >
                            >
                            > chopped50ford wrote:
                            >
                            > >My cross way slide is smoth, it moves from play in the cross way
                            > >screw. Its probably worn...and I need to get another. Im guessing
                            > >the gib adjustment are the screws on the sides that tighten the
                            > >crossmovement? I adjusted the easy movement with a little tightness.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > The gib should be tightened to keep the cross slide from rocking or any
                            > looseness. Tightening it to try to compensate for backlash in the
                            > screw will just lead to even faster wear. The nuts on the handle can be
                            > adjusted to take out almost all the free play in the thrust bearing for
                            the
                            > leadscrew. There is no provision for removing the backlash on the
                            > leadscrew/nut, however. (Some high-end lathes have backlash compensating
                            > nuts that allow you to reduce backlash to a very small value.) The only
                            > solutions I know of are to apply Moglice or other castable liner material
                            > in the nut, or to make or buy a new nut. They really aren't that hard to
                            > make. (Note that the cross slide screw is LEFT hand! I missed that
                            little
                            > detail when I made a new screw and nut!)
                            >
                            > Jon
                            >
                            >
                            > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                            > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
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                            >
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                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman_projects/
                            >
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                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/
                            >
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                            >
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                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/
                            >
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                          • Kenneth Mayer
                            ... with ... Hmmm...I ll have to try it sometime. ... The saddle dovetails could be worn such that they are no longer parallel. In this case adjusting the gibs
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jan 5, 2004
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                              > Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 02:46:09 -0500
                              > From: "mertbaker" <MertBaker@...>
                              >
                              >The cross slide nut was badly worn on one of my lathes. I repairded it
                              with
                              >some "thread restorer" goop from loctite that I bot in an auto parts store.
                              >Seems there are several other brands, too. Claim is, the resored nut is
                              >equal to grade 5 strength. all I know, is the slop is gone, and to follow
                              >the instructions exactly, or else.


                              Hmmm...I'll have to try it sometime.

                              >> >My cross way slide is smoth, it moves from play in the cross way
                              >> >screw. Its probably worn...and I need to get another. Im guessing
                              >> >the gib adjustment are the screws on the sides that tighten the
                              >> >crossmovement? I adjusted the easy movement with a little tightness.


                              The saddle dovetails could be worn such that they are no longer parallel.
                              In this case adjusting the gibs with the cross-slide backed all the way out
                              will result in it binding as it moves inward. The only cure is to mill the
                              dovetails.

                              >> The gib should be tightened to keep the cross slide from rocking or any
                              >> looseness. Tightening it to try to compensate for backlash in the
                              >> screw will just lead to even faster wear. The nuts on the handle can be
                              >> adjusted to take out almost all the free play in the thrust bearing for
                              >the
                              >> leadscrew. There is no provision for removing the backlash on the
                              >> leadscrew/nut, however. (Some high-end lathes have backlash compensating
                              >> nuts that allow you to reduce backlash to a very small value.) The only
                              >> solutions I know of are to apply Moglice or other castable liner material
                              >> in the nut, or to make or buy a new nut. They really aren't that hard to
                              >> make. (Note that the cross slide screw is LEFT hand! I missed that
                              >little
                              >> detail when I made a new screw and nut!)


                              The current issue (Jan/Feb 2004) of Home Shop Machinist has an article about
                              repairing leadscrew nuts using Moglice. As Mert says, follow the
                              instructions exactly. The other cure for a worn nut is to make or buy a new
                              nut.

                              Ken
                              :-)
                            • chopped50ford
                              I have seen a few people mention its use. I will have to try it. Thanks!!!!
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jan 5, 2004
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                                I have seen a few people mention its use. I will have to try it.

                                Thanks!!!!
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