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Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Manual of lathe operation

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  • thewwl
    Copyright for this upload is nothing to worry about. If the item is copyrighted, it falls under the fair use exception to the general rule of no copying
    Message 1 of 18 , Nov 1, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      Copyright for this upload is nothing to worry about. If the item is
      copyrighted, it falls under the "fair use" exception to the general rule of
      no "copying" unless owner authorized. If the item is not copyrighted or the
      owner's copyright has otherwise expired, then the item is in the public
      domain.

      It is not the intent of the US copyright laws to inhibit the free flow and
      exchange of information. That benefit tot he public is paramount as to all
      copyrights.




      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <xlch58@...>
      To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 3:00 PM
      Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Manual of lathe operation


      > It all depends. Anything published first in the US prior to 1923 is
      > outside of any copyright. Beyond that, it depends on wether the
      > original owner renewed it or not, as US copyright law continues to
      > change.
      >
      > Charles
      >
      >
      > a1anb2003 wrote:
      >
      > >Jacques,
      > > I have bought a manual '10-inch lathe operation and
      > >machinists tables'on a CD I would be willing to upload this to your
      > >site' mind you its 620 meg, I could take some 'stuff' out of it.
      > >
      > >As for copyright ? May be someone could throw some light on that ?
      > >Has it run out ?
      > >
      > >Alan
      > >
      > >--- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "Jacques Le Clainche"
      > ><jleclainche@c...> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >>I keep reading about listers wanting to buy manuals.... and often
      > >>
      > >>
      > >getting
      > >
      > >
      > >>copies bought off eBay. May be we could help each other - for free?
      > >>
      > >>I already have a few old/out of print car manuals on my website -
      > >>
      > >>
      > >see here:
      > >
      > >
      > >>http://www.leclainche.com/hobbycars/manuals.htm
      > >>
      > >>I could start a similar lathe "manuals page" on my website for
      > >>difficult-to-get, out of print manuals. If posted in PDF format,
      > >>
      > >>
      > >any lister
      > >
      > >
      > >>with acrobat reader could download the files and print. Any one
      > >>
      > >>
      > >interested?
      > >
      > >
      > >>Problem might not be space (I have 1 GB of web space), but finding
      > >>
      > >>
      > >listers
      > >
      > >
      > >>willing to scan the manuals and email them to me, or willing to
      > >>
      > >>
      > >send me the
      > >
      > >
      > >>manual(s) for scanning.
      > >>
      > >>The only manual I have is a black cover, Twentieth edition
      > >>
      > >>
      > >(published in
      > >
      > >
      > >>1961), Craftsman "Lathe operation and machinists tables", and I
      > >>
      > >>
      > >believe this
      > >
      > >
      > >>is still available from Sears.
      > >>
      > >>Jacques Le Clainche in San Diego
      > >>http://www.leclainche.com/
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > >TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
      > >You do this yourself by sending a message to:
      > >atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > >
      > >Atlas-Craftsman Projects list is at
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman_projects/
      > >
      > >To see or edit your personal settings, view the photos, files or links
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/
      > >
      > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
      > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
      > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Atlas-Craftsman Projects list is at
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman_projects/
      >
      > To see or edit your personal settings, view the photos, files or links
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
    • Jacques Le Clainche
      thewwl@optonline.net wrote: Copyright for this upload is nothing to worry about. If the item is copyrighted, it falls under the fair use exception to the
      Message 2 of 18 , Nov 1, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        thewwl@... wrote: "Copyright for this upload is nothing to worry
        about. If the item is
        copyrighted, it falls under the "fair use" exception to the general rule of
        no "copying" unless owner authorized. If the item is not copyrighted or the
        owner's copyright has otherwise expired, then the item is in the public
        domain."

        Good... My intention is to only post PDF files of old, out of print manuals,
        and this is meant as a service to fellow list members. I'll start the "lathe
        manuals page" as soon as I get material... Moderator of list OK with all
        that?

        Jacques Le Clainche in San Diego
        http://www.leclainche.com/
      • Earl L. Bower
        The Manual of Lathe Operations is still in print. Better talk to Clausing first before uploading to internet. Earl Bower Bower Machine elbower@access995.com
        Message 3 of 18 , Nov 1, 2003
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          The "Manual of Lathe Operations" is still in print.

          Better talk to Clausing first before uploading to internet.

          Earl Bower
          Bower Machine
          elbower@...

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "a1anb2003" <aoyt13@...>
          To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 2:56 PM
          Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Manual of lathe operation


          > Jacques,
          > I have bought a manual '10-inch lathe operation and
          > machinists tables'on a CD I would be willing to upload this to your
          > site' mind you its 620 meg, I could take some 'stuff' out of it.
          >
          > As for copyright ? May be someone could throw some light on that ?
          > Has it run out ?
          >
        • Marc Sayer
          Fair use applies only to personal use, not to copying for distribution, which is what is being discussed here. The fair use exception will not protect whoever
          Message 4 of 18 , Nov 1, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            Fair use applies only to personal use, not to copying for distribution,
            which is what is being discussed here. The fair use exception will not
            protect whoever puts copyrighted materials on the web for distribution.
            That's why Napster was forced to stop, and why they are now suing those
            who make copyrighted music available on similar sites. However, I doubt
            any copyright holders would do anything about the infringement in the
            case of old lathe manuals because there is no financial incentive to do
            so, at least not yet.

            Jacques Le Clainche wrote:

            > thewwl@... wrote: "Copyright for this upload is nothing to worry
            > about. If the item is
            > copyrighted, it falls under the "fair use" exception to the general rule of
            > no "copying" unless owner authorized. If the item is not copyrighted or the
            > owner's copyright has otherwise expired, then the item is in the public
            > domain."
            >
            > Good... My intention is to only post PDF files of old, out of print manuals,
            > and this is meant as a service to fellow list members. I'll start the "lathe
            > manuals page" as soon as I get material... Moderator of list OK with all
            > that?
            >
            > Jacques Le Clainche in San Diego
            > http://www.leclainche.com/
            >
            >
            >
            > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
            > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
            > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Atlas-Craftsman Projects list is at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman_projects/
            >
            > To see or edit your personal settings, view the photos, files or links http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >

            --
            Marc Sayer
            Journalist, Photographer, Dog Trainer (APDT member #062956)

            Passions -
            Great Danes, auto racing and fast cars, my wife

            Dogs -
            Gracie, Tank, Delilah, PJ, & the rescue dogs

            Cars -
            82 280ZX Turbo, 83 Volvo 245, 93 Ford E150 Tow/dog van
            71 510 Trans Am vintage racer, homebuilt Formula V

            My Homepage - http://gracieland.org

            Deaf Dane Rescue Homepge - http://gracieland.org/DaneRescue/

            Any Dane at the races is a Great Dane!
          • Jacques Le Clainche
            Earl, I would not post anything still in print. The idea is to have a website/resource page, for list members, with posted material which is no longer
            Message 5 of 18 , Nov 1, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              Earl,

              I would not post anything still in print. The idea is to have a
              website/resource page, for list members, with posted material which is no
              longer available in print.

              I was told this discussion is off topic- my apologies to all if it is. I
              sincerely thought it was a relevant topic on this list.

              Jacques Le Clainche in San Diego
              http://www.leclainche.com/


              Earl wrote: The "Manual of Lathe Operations" is still in print.

              Better talk to Clausing first before uploading to internet.
            • x xx
              Sounds plausible. However since we are deling with legal stuff, I think we need to know who you are and what your authority is before Jacques invests effort
              Message 6 of 18 , Nov 1, 2003
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                Sounds plausible. However since we are deling with legal stuff, I think we need to know who you are and what your authority is before Jacques invests effort in the project.

                No offence meant and not belittling you knowledge, just falling into my accountant's habit of wearing both belt and suspenders :-)

                Sam

                thewwl <thewwl@...> wrote:
                Copyright for this upload is nothing to worry about. If the item is
                copyrighted, it falls under the "fair use" exception to the general rule of
                no "copying" unless owner authorized. If the item is not copyrighted or the
                owner's copyright has otherwise expired, then the item is in the public
                domain.

                It is not the intent of the US copyright laws to inhibit the free flow and
                exchange of information. That benefit tot he public is paramount as to all
                copyrights.




                ----- Original Message -----
                From:
                To:
                Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 3:00 PM
                Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Manual of lathe operation


                > It all depends. Anything published first in the US prior to 1923 is
                > outside of any copyright. Beyond that, it depends on wether the
                > original owner renewed it or not, as US copyright law continues to
                > change.
                >
                > Charles
                >
                >
                > a1anb2003 wrote:
                >
                > >Jacques,
                > > I have bought a manual '10-inch lathe operation and
                > >machinists tables'on a CD I would be willing to upload this to your
                > >site' mind you its 620 meg, I could take some 'stuff' out of it.
                > >
                > >As for copyright ? May be someone could throw some light on that ?
                > >Has it run out ?
                > >
                > >Alan
                > >
                > >--- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "Jacques Le Clainche"
                > > wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >>I keep reading about listers wanting to buy manuals.... and often
                > >>
                > >>
                > >getting
                > >
                > >
                > >>copies bought off eBay. May be we could help each other - for free?
                > >>
                > >>I already have a few old/out of print car manuals on my website -
                > >>
                > >>
                > >see here:
                > >
                > >
                > >>http://www.leclainche.com/hobbycars/manuals.htm
                > >>
                > >>I could start a similar lathe "manuals page" on my website for
                > >>difficult-to-get, out of print manuals. If posted in PDF format,
                > >>
                > >>
                > >any lister
                > >
                > >
                > >>with acrobat reader could download the files and print. Any one
                > >>
                > >>
                > >interested?
                > >
                > >
                > >>Problem might not be space (I have 1 GB of web space), but finding
                > >>
                > >>
                > >listers
                > >
                > >
                > >>willing to scan the manuals and email them to me, or willing to
                > >>
                > >>
                > >send me the
                > >
                > >
                > >>manual(s) for scanning.
                > >>
                > >>The only manual I have is a black cover, Twentieth edition
                > >>
                > >>
                > >(published in
                > >
                > >
                > >>1961), Craftsman "Lathe operation and machinists tables", and I
                > >>
                > >>
                > >believe this
                > >
                > >
                > >>is still available from Sears.
                > >>
                > >>Jacques Le Clainche in San Diego
                > >>http://www.leclainche.com/
                > >>
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                > >TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                > >You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                > >atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > >
                > >Atlas-Craftsman Projects list is at
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman_projects/
                > >
                > >To see or edit your personal settings, view the photos, files or links
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/
                > >
                > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Atlas-Craftsman Projects list is at
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman_projects/
                >
                > To see or edit your personal settings, view the photos, files or links
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >



                TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                Atlas-Craftsman Projects list is at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman_projects/

                To see or edit your personal settings, view the photos, files or links http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/

                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




                ---------------------------------
                Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • thewwl
                You miss the point of fair use. Copying and distribution for educational purposes has always been a legitimate and judicially recognized application of the
                Message 7 of 18 , Nov 1, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  You miss the point of fair use. Copying and distribution for "educational
                  purposes" has always been a legitimate and judicially recognized application
                  of the fair use doctrine.

                  Yet again, the purpose of copyright is NOT to interfere with the free flow
                  of ideas and communication amongst members of the public. Frankly, that is
                  the net effect of this discussion.

                  While you correctly point out an absence of financial incentive for an
                  unknown copyright owner to enforce its rights in this case, kindly recognize
                  the negative impact such adverse publicity could generate. Do you recall
                  several years ago when Disney took away cartoon images from a Florida
                  nursery school, complete with crying children? That lawyer lost her job and
                  Disney went through great lengths to make it up to that school and the
                  children. Bottom line is that any reasonable enforcement effort has to be
                  tempered with common sense.

                  I doubt anyone here has anything to worry about in terms of copyright
                  infringement from uploading information for educational use.




                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Marc Sayer" <marc@...>
                  To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 4:29 PM
                  Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Manuals and copyright


                  > Fair use applies only to personal use, not to copying for distribution,
                  > which is what is being discussed here. The fair use exception will not
                  > protect whoever puts copyrighted materials on the web for distribution.
                  > That's why Napster was forced to stop, and why they are now suing those
                  > who make copyrighted music available on similar sites. However, I doubt
                  > any copyright holders would do anything about the infringement in the
                  > case of old lathe manuals because there is no financial incentive to do
                  > so, at least not yet.
                  >
                  > Jacques Le Clainche wrote:
                  >
                  > > thewwl@... wrote: "Copyright for this upload is nothing to
                  worry
                  > > about. If the item is
                  > > copyrighted, it falls under the "fair use" exception to the general
                  rule of
                  > > no "copying" unless owner authorized. If the item is not copyrighted or
                  the
                  > > owner's copyright has otherwise expired, then the item is in the public
                  > > domain."
                  > >
                  > > Good... My intention is to only post PDF files of old, out of print
                  manuals,
                  > > and this is meant as a service to fellow list members. I'll start the
                  "lathe
                  > > manuals page" as soon as I get material... Moderator of list OK with all
                  > > that?
                  > >
                  > > Jacques Le Clainche in San Diego
                  > > http://www.leclainche.com/
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                  > > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                  > > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > >
                  > > Atlas-Craftsman Projects list is at
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman_projects/
                  > >
                  > > To see or edit your personal settings, view the photos, files or links
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/
                  > >
                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Marc Sayer
                  > Journalist, Photographer, Dog Trainer (APDT member #062956)
                  >
                  > Passions -
                  > Great Danes, auto racing and fast cars, my wife
                  >
                  > Dogs -
                  > Gracie, Tank, Delilah, PJ, & the rescue dogs
                  >
                  > Cars -
                  > 82 280ZX Turbo, 83 Volvo 245, 93 Ford E150 Tow/dog van
                  > 71 510 Trans Am vintage racer, homebuilt Formula V
                  >
                  > My Homepage - http://gracieland.org
                  >
                  > Deaf Dane Rescue Homepge - http://gracieland.org/DaneRescue/
                  >
                  > Any Dane at the races is a Great Dane!
                  >
                  >
                  > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                  > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                  > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Atlas-Craftsman Projects list is at
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman_projects/
                  >
                  > To see or edit your personal settings, view the photos, files or links
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • x xx
                  Sounds plausible too. However, I refer to my previous post on this topic. Sam thewwl wrote: You miss the point of fair use. Copying and
                  Message 8 of 18 , Nov 1, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Sounds plausible too. However, I refer to my previous post on this topic.
                    Sam

                    thewwl <thewwl@...> wrote:
                    You miss the point of fair use. Copying and distribution for "educational
                    purposes" has always been a legitimate and judicially recognized application
                    of the fair use doctrine.

                    Yet again, the purpose of copyright is NOT to interfere with the free flow
                    of ideas and communication amongst members of the public. Frankly, that is
                    the net effect of this discussion.

                    While you correctly point out an absence of financial incentive for an
                    unknown copyright owner to enforce its rights in this case, kindly recognize
                    the negative impact such adverse publicity could generate. Do you recall
                    several years ago when Disney took away cartoon images from a Florida
                    nursery school, complete with crying children? That lawyer lost her job and
                    Disney went through great lengths to make it up to that school and the
                    children. Bottom line is that any reasonable enforcement effort has to be
                    tempered with common sense.

                    I doubt anyone here has anything to worry about in terms of copyright
                    infringement from uploading information for educational use.




                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Marc Sayer"
                    To:
                    Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 4:29 PM
                    Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Manuals and copyright


                    > Fair use applies only to personal use, not to copying for distribution,
                    > which is what is being discussed here. The fair use exception will not
                    > protect whoever puts copyrighted materials on the web for distribution.
                    > That's why Napster was forced to stop, and why they are now suing those
                    > who make copyrighted music available on similar sites. However, I doubt
                    > any copyright holders would do anything about the infringement in the
                    > case of old lathe manuals because there is no financial incentive to do
                    > so, at least not yet.
                    >
                    > Jacques Le Clainche wrote:
                    >
                    > > thewwl@... wrote: "Copyright for this upload is nothing to
                    worry
                    > > about. If the item is
                    > > copyrighted, it falls under the "fair use" exception to the general
                    rule of
                    > > no "copying" unless owner authorized. If the item is not copyrighted or
                    the
                    > > owner's copyright has otherwise expired, then the item is in the public
                    > > domain."
                    > >
                    > > Good... My intention is to only post PDF files of old, out of print
                    manuals,
                    > > and this is meant as a service to fellow list members. I'll start the
                    "lathe
                    > > manuals page" as soon as I get material... Moderator of list OK with all
                    > > that?
                    > >
                    > > Jacques Le Clainche in San Diego
                    > > http://www.leclainche.com/
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                    > > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                    > > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > >
                    > > Atlas-Craftsman Projects list is at
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman_projects/
                    > >
                    > > To see or edit your personal settings, view the photos, files or links
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Marc Sayer
                    > Journalist, Photographer, Dog Trainer (APDT member #062956)
                    >
                    > Passions -
                    > Great Danes, auto racing and fast cars, my wife
                    >
                    > Dogs -
                    > Gracie, Tank, Delilah, PJ, & the rescue dogs
                    >
                    > Cars -
                    > 82 280ZX Turbo, 83 Volvo 245, 93 Ford E150 Tow/dog van
                    > 71 510 Trans Am vintage racer, homebuilt Formula V
                    >
                    > My Homepage - http://gracieland.org
                    >
                    > Deaf Dane Rescue Homepge - http://gracieland.org/DaneRescue/
                    >
                    > Any Dane at the races is a Great Dane!
                    >
                    >
                    > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                    > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                    > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Atlas-Craftsman Projects list is at
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman_projects/
                    >
                    > To see or edit your personal settings, view the photos, files or links
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    >



                    TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                    You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                    atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                    Atlas-Craftsman Projects list is at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman_projects/

                    To see or edit your personal settings, view the photos, files or links http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/

                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




                    ---------------------------------
                    Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Buckshot
                    Gentlemen, The Atlas Manual of Lathe Operations and Machinists Tables is still available from Atlas. I would imagine that it is still under copyright since I
                    Message 9 of 18 , Nov 1, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Gentlemen,

                      The Atlas Manual of Lathe Operations and Machinists Tables is still
                      available from Atlas.

                      I would imagine that it is still under copyright since I undertand copyright
                      protection was recently extended to 99 years for currently protected items.

                      I KNOW that the Atlas Manual was updated and reprinted by Atlas in the
                      1970s, so I would imagine it is still protected by copyright.

                      You would be doing them a dis-service in making a product that they still
                      sell for profit available for free in the intenet and I would imagine they
                      might take action against you, and it would also be rather destructive of
                      the support they still provide for the lathes to undercut them in that
                      manner.

                      Buckshot

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: <xlch58@...>
                      To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 3:00 PM
                      Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Manual of lathe operation


                      > It all depends. Anything published first in the US prior to 1923 is
                      > outside of any copyright. Beyond that, it depends on wether the
                      > original owner renewed it or not, as US copyright law continues to
                      > change.
                      >
                      > Charles
                      >
                      >
                      > a1anb2003 wrote:
                      >
                      > >Jacques,
                      > > I have bought a manual '10-inch lathe operation and
                      > >machinists tables'on a CD I would be willing to upload this to your
                      > >site' mind you its 620 meg, I could take some 'stuff' out of it.
                      > >
                      > >As for copyright ? May be someone could throw some light on that ?
                      > >Has it run out ?
                      > >
                      > >Alan
                      > >
                      > >--- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, "Jacques Le Clainche"
                      > ><jleclainche@c...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >>I keep reading about listers wanting to buy manuals.... and often
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >getting
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >>copies bought off eBay. May be we could help each other - for free?
                      > >>
                      > >>I already have a few old/out of print car manuals on my website -
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >see here:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >>http://www.leclainche.com/hobbycars/manuals.htm
                      > >>
                      > >>I could start a similar lathe "manuals page" on my website for
                      > >>difficult-to-get, out of print manuals. If posted in PDF format,
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >any lister
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >>with acrobat reader could download the files and print. Any one
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >interested?
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >>Problem might not be space (I have 1 GB of web space), but finding
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >listers
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >>willing to scan the manuals and email them to me, or willing to
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >send me the
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >>manual(s) for scanning.
                      > >>
                      > >>The only manual I have is a black cover, Twentieth edition
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >(published in
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >>1961), Craftsman "Lathe operation and machinists tables", and I
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >believe this
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >>is still available from Sears.
                      > >>
                      > >>Jacques Le Clainche in San Diego
                      > >>http://www.leclainche.com/
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >
                      > >
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                      > >
                      > >Atlas-Craftsman Projects list is at
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                      > >
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                      > >
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                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
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                      >
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                      >
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                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • LouD31M066@aol.com
                      I tend to agree. Louis
                      Message 10 of 18 , Nov 1, 2003
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                        I tend to agree.
                        Louis
                      • Jacques Le Clainche
                        Buckshot wrote: The Atlas Manual of Lathe Operations and Machinists Tables is still available from Atlas. I would imagine that it is still under copyright
                        Message 11 of 18 , Nov 1, 2003
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                          Buckshot wrote: "The Atlas Manual of Lathe Operations and Machinists Tables
                          is still
                          available from Atlas.

                          I would imagine that it is still under copyright since I understand
                          copyright
                          protection was recently extended to 99 years for currently protected items.

                          I KNOW that the Atlas Manual was updated and reprinted by Atlas in the
                          1970s, so I would imagine it is still protected by copyright.

                          You would be doing them a dis-service in making a product that they still
                          sell for profit available for free in the internet and I would imagine they
                          might take action against you, and it would also be rather destructive of
                          the support they still provide for the lathes to undercut them in that
                          manner."

                          Point taken. Just was an idea - the idea being to help fellow listers by
                          posting out-of-print, unavailable manuals. As I might not know what is
                          available (or not), and as there might be commercial interests I am not
                          aware of, I'll just forget about the whole thing. Sorry I brought it up.

                          JLC
                        • Bob May
                          Two things, don t even try to use JPG compression format for doing pages from a manual unless they are full of pictures which are in color. Images of black
                          Message 12 of 18 , Nov 1, 2003
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                            Two things, don't even try to use JPG compression format for doing pages
                            from a manual unless they are full of pictures which are in color. Images
                            of black and white line drawings and text are best compressed with the GIF
                            format in black and white (the manuals were cheaply produced and are
                            generally of newsprint quality more than anything else) which will compress
                            the file size a lot all by itself - you get a 24:1 compression from full
                            color to B&W alone! In addition, GIF is a lossless format so you won't lose
                            any image quality while JPG is a lossy format that will make text impossible
                            to read at decently high compression ratios.
                            FWIW, there is a guy on the web doing some old car manuals and he's done
                            everything in JPG and the pages can be quite difficult to read as the text
                            is getting very fuzzy from the compression turning black edges gray and
                            spreading out the edges in unusual ways. What is worse is that the files
                            aren't that compressed anyway.
                            Bob May
                            http://nav.to/bobmay
                            bobmay@...
                            NEW! http://bobmay.astronomy.net
                          • jerdal
                            ... of ... the ... I do not believe this is correct. Not that anyone is likely to sue, but....why punch noses that haven t asked for it? I flat do not
                            Message 13 of 18 , Nov 1, 2003
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                              > Copyright for this upload is nothing to worry about. If the item is
                              > copyrighted, it falls under the "fair use" exception to the general rule
                              of
                              > no "copying" unless owner authorized. If the item is not copyrighted or
                              the
                              > owner's copyright has otherwise expired, then the item is in the public
                              > domain.

                              I do not believe this is correct. Not that anyone is likely to sue,
                              but....why punch noses that haven't asked for it?

                              I flat do not understand some things. I see people trying to find cheap
                              substitutes for $10 per gallon way oil, cheap or free copies of manuals
                              available from manufacturers for $5 to $20, etc, etc.

                              I am probably a cheaper skinflint ba##### than most of you, but I don't do
                              THAT stuff. Some of it is false economy, and the rest either is marginal on
                              legal issues or doesn't make sense.

                              Jerrold
                            • Jon Elson
                              ... The fine points of copyright law would be off topic, but making the entire manual for one of the Atlas or Craftsman lathes available on-line should be
                              Message 14 of 18 , Nov 1, 2003
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                                Jacques Le Clainche wrote:

                                >Earl,
                                >
                                >I would not post anything still in print. The idea is to have a
                                >website/resource page, for list members, with posted material which is no
                                >longer available in print.
                                >
                                >I was told this discussion is off topic- my apologies to all if it is. I
                                >sincerely thought it was a relevant topic on this list.
                                >
                                >
                                The fine points of copyright law would be off topic, but making the entire
                                manual for one of the Atlas or Craftsman lathes available on-line should
                                be on-topic enough. We don't want to get in trouble with any of the
                                manufacturers, so we want to be sure that we do this correctly.
                                Somebody certainly has to talk to Clausing about this.

                                Jon
                              • thewwl
                                As a middle ground solution, consider posting only PORTIONS of the manuals leaving some stuff out. ... From: Jon Elson To:
                                Message 15 of 18 , Nov 2, 2003
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                                  As a middle ground solution, consider posting only PORTIONS of the manuals
                                  leaving some stuff out.


                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Jon Elson" <elson@...>
                                  To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 1:23 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Manual of lathe operation


                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Jacques Le Clainche wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >Earl,
                                  > >
                                  > >I would not post anything still in print. The idea is to have a
                                  > >website/resource page, for list members, with posted material which is no
                                  > >longer available in print.
                                  > >
                                  > >I was told this discussion is off topic- my apologies to all if it is. I
                                  > >sincerely thought it was a relevant topic on this list.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > The fine points of copyright law would be off topic, but making the entire
                                  > manual for one of the Atlas or Craftsman lathes available on-line should
                                  > be on-topic enough. We don't want to get in trouble with any of the
                                  > manufacturers, so we want to be sure that we do this correctly.
                                  > Somebody certainly has to talk to Clausing about this.
                                  >
                                  > Jon
                                  >
                                  >
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                                  >
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                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman_projects/
                                  >
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                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/
                                  >
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                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • LouD31M066@aol.com
                                  Right on Louis
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Nov 2, 2003
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                                    Right on
                                    Louis
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