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Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: craftsman keyless chucks, lathe dog usage

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  • n8as1@aol.com
    i have a t/stock for prewar 12x24 crftsmn, 3/8 bed ,missing clamp .....dont know sears # but shud fit all 12 in ( fits my 1972 12x36 as well )works well ,tight
    Message 1 of 23 , Jul 2, 2003
      i have a t/stock for prewar 12x24 crftsmn, 3/8 bed ,missing clamp .....dont
      know sears # but shud fit all 12 in ( fits my 1972 12x36 as well )works well
      ,tight , but sat in a shed for 30 yrs ,so paint is long gone .e mail me at
      n8as1@... if interested
      tnx


      best wishes
      docn8as


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Brian Squibb
      ... Horses for courses. I am just making some engine spacers in stainless. 24mm diameter, 10mm wide with a 8mm bolt hole. The only accuracy here is the
      Message 2 of 23 , Jul 2, 2003
        At 00:57 03/07/2003 -0500, you wrote:
        > So, short pieces can often be turned in the
        >chuck with much less effort to get good alignment. Many, if not
        >most, of the parts I do are quite short, and turning them between
        >centers would require all sorts of fixtures, etc.

        Horses for courses. I am just making some engine spacers in stainless. 24mm
        diameter, 10mm wide with a 8mm bolt hole.

        The only accuracy here is the diameter and holesize. Slightly off centre
        would be unmeasurable and irrelevant. Even the diameter size is not too
        relevant in this context - accuracy of 1/2mm is all that is needed -
        although I am managing about 0.05mm without problems

        Brian
      • lkasdorf
        Thanks for the info- that was the heart of my question. My lathe has babbits that seem to be in great shape- I can chuck up a rod and cannot detect any wiggle
        Message 3 of 23 , Jul 3, 2003
          Thanks for the info- that was the heart of my question. My lathe has
          babbits that seem to be in great shape- I can chuck up a rod and
          cannot detect any wiggle in the spindle. However, I imagine that due
          to the very nature of how babbits are fitted, they will have more
          variability than a good roller bearing.

          I'm plannning to get this machine restored and tweaked, use it as a
          learning tool, and sell it- in hopes of finding that elusive serious
          american lathe, or perhaps even a good asian machine.

          I actually have a lead on a local LeBlond regal 10 for a good price.
          It is apparently a nice solid machine, but it has babbits as well, so
          maybe it wouldn't make sense to get. It is bound to be more accurate
          than this craftsman, but it does not have qc gears, and in fact is
          missing its extra loose change gears.

          Thanks-
          Lynn Kasdorf

          --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, Jon Elson <elson@p...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > lkasdorf wrote:
          >
          > >Thanks for the idea of making a dog. This would be very simple for
          me
          > >to do, and I had not really thought of it.
          > >
          > >You sort of indirectly answered my question about usage of dogs. I
          > >take it that my original assertion was correct, that most work
          these
          > >days is held in a chuck rather than between centers. Not that this
          is
          > >good or bad.. I have zero problem using old techniques, I'm just
          > >trying to understand what the current practice is, and whether
          > >faceplate/dog approach is in fact an old technique.
          > >
          > >I am new to lathe work and am currently learning from the 1937
          book
          > >that came with my lathe, which is indeed from the era of King
          Aurthur
          > >and the Knights of the Indexing Rotary Table...
          > >
          > >
          > Today's lathes, in generally good condition, are much more accurate
          > than the horrible machines that many machinists were forced to use
          > before, say, 1930. With badly worn babbit bearings and such, you
          > couldn't assume the spindle was parallel to the bed. So, anything
          > of any precision had to be done between centers. Modern lathes
          > with roller bearings can usually be assumed to have good alignment
          > between spindle and bed. Also, chucks generally are more accurate
          > today than back when. So, short pieces can often be turned in the
          > chuck with much less effort to get good alignment. Many, if not
          > most, of the parts I do are quite short, and turning them between
          > centers would require all sorts of fixtures, etc.
          >
          > Jon
        • LouD31M066@aol.com
          A gentleman of my aquaintance fitted his TH 42 spindle bearings with a type of sight oilers usually seen on older machinery. Seems to be a good idea and
          Message 4 of 23 , Jul 3, 2003
            A gentleman of my aquaintance fitted his TH 42 spindle bearings with a type
            of sight oilers usually seen on older machinery. Seems to be a good idea and
            probably a very
            good idea for a Babbit bearing equiped machine. One name that comes to mind
            is Lunkenheimer although other brands must abound.
            Louis
          • x xx
            And a thanx from me to Jon who cleared up the chuck v. centres matter also in my mind by answering Lynn. regards Sam lkasdorf wrote:
            Message 5 of 23 , Jul 3, 2003
              And a thanx from me to Jon who cleared up the chuck v. centres matter also in my mind by answering Lynn.

              regards
              Sam

              lkasdorf <lkasdorf@...> wrote:
              Thanks for the info- that was the heart of my question. My lathe has
              babbits that seem to be in great shape- I can chuck up a rod and
              cannot detect any wiggle in the spindle. However, I imagine that due
              to the very nature of how babbits are fitted, they will have more
              variability than a good roller bearing.

              I'm plannning to get this machine restored and tweaked, use it as a
              learning tool, and sell it- in hopes of finding that elusive serious
              american lathe, or perhaps even a good asian machine.

              I actually have a lead on a local LeBlond regal 10 for a good price.
              It is apparently a nice solid machine, but it has babbits as well, so
              maybe it wouldn't make sense to get. It is bound to be more accurate
              than this craftsman, but it does not have qc gears, and in fact is
              missing its extra loose change gears.

              Thanks-
              Lynn Kasdorf

              --- In atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com, Jon Elson wrote:
              >
              >
              > lkasdorf wrote:
              >
              > >Thanks for the idea of making a dog. This would be very simple for
              me
              > >to do, and I had not really thought of it.
              > >
              > >You sort of indirectly answered my question about usage of dogs. I
              > >take it that my original assertion was correct, that most work
              these
              > >days is held in a chuck rather than between centers. Not that this
              is
              > >good or bad.. I have zero problem using old techniques, I'm just
              > >trying to understand what the current practice is, and whether
              > >faceplate/dog approach is in fact an old technique.
              > >
              > >I am new to lathe work and am currently learning from the 1937
              book
              > >that came with my lathe, which is indeed from the era of King
              Aurthur
              > >and the Knights of the Indexing Rotary Table...
              > >
              > >
              > Today's lathes, in generally good condition, are much more accurate
              > than the horrible machines that many machinists were forced to use
              > before, say, 1930. With badly worn babbit bearings and such, you
              > couldn't assume the spindle was parallel to the bed. So, anything
              > of any precision had to be done between centers. Modern lathes
              > with roller bearings can usually be assumed to have good alignment
              > between spindle and bed. Also, chucks generally are more accurate
              > today than back when. So, short pieces can often be turned in the
              > chuck with much less effort to get good alignment. Many, if not
              > most, of the parts I do are quite short, and turning them between
              > centers would require all sorts of fixtures, etc.
              >
              > Jon


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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Bob May
              I don t know about your exact chuck but my Unimat chuck which has the same method of tightening has a set of holes on the chuck itself to provide the holding
              Message 6 of 23 , Jul 3, 2003
                I don't know about your exact chuck but my Unimat chuck which has the same
                method of tightening has a set of holes on the chuck itself to provide the
                holding force. They came with a pair of tommy bars (a straight rod) and the
                jacobs chuck also had the same size rod for the handle so that could also be
                used if you can't find one of the tommy bars temporarily. There basically
                was no stress on the spindle when tighening or loosening the chuck.
                Bob May
                http://nav.to/bobmay
                bobmay@...
                NEW! http://bobmay.astronomy.net
              • n8as1@aol.com
                In a message dated 7/3/2003 9:26:51 AM Central Standard Time, ... be advised that IF leblonde uses 14 pitch gears ,they are obsolete & will have to be custom
                Message 7 of 23 , Jul 3, 2003
                  In a message dated 7/3/2003 9:26:51 AM Central Standard Time,
                  lkasdorf@... writes:

                  > actually have a lead on a local LeBlond regal 10 for a good price.
                  > It is apparently a nice solid machine, but it has babbits as well, so
                  > maybe it wouldn't make sense to get. It is bound to be more accurate
                  > than this craftsman, but it does not have qc gears, and in fact is
                  > missing its extra loose change gears.
                  >

                  be advised that IF leblonde uses 14 pitch gears ,they are obsolete & will
                  have to be custom cut.....boston gear & others are no source...saw one set on
                  ebay in 2 years & it was not complete......recently geared up an 1895
                  Reed(babbit),came as a bit of a shock ...good part was learned to cut gears& met a
                  great mentor...(.which has a very true spindle ).........just because atlas
                  /crftsmn was inexpensive , dont presume it to be inaccurate before prooving it so
                  ...both my 6 X18 & 12x36 will turn a 12 in bar w/in a few tenths(carefully &
                  w/ tlc)...older machines w/ well worn spindle bearings frequently were fitted
                  w/ soft centers so they cud be trued in situ at each usage..........

                  best wishes
                  docn8as

                  BTW...i have .024 shimming up the tailstock on Reed 14x44 !!!!! it also
                  turns 12 inches w/in a few tenths,,,,,,,,,,


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Jon Elson
                  ... That tells you you have a good chuck and spindle, but it does NOT address the condition of the bearings or spindle alignment. What you want to check is
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jul 3, 2003
                    x xx wrote:

                    >And a thanx from me to Jon who cleared up the chuck v. centres matter also in my mind by answering Lynn.
                    >
                    >regards
                    >Sam
                    >
                    >lkasdorf <lkasdorf@...> wrote:
                    >Thanks for the info- that was the heart of my question. My lathe has
                    >babbits that seem to be in great shape- I can chuck up a rod and
                    >cannot detect any wiggle in the spindle.
                    >
                    That tells you you have a good chuck and spindle, but it does NOT
                    address the
                    condition of the bearings or spindle alignment. What you want to check is
                    how much the spindle can move front/back and up/down with a dial indicator.
                    That checks bearing looseness. Then, you put a known round and straight
                    rod (I use some known-good pieces of hardened and ground shafting) in
                    the chuck, with the far end free, and ride a dial indicator on the carriage
                    along the rod, checking both the front and top of the rod for any angle
                    between the rod and the movement of the carriage.

                    > However, I imagine that due
                    >to the very nature of how babbits are fitted, they will have more
                    >variability than a good roller bearing.
                    >
                    >I'm plannning to get this machine restored and tweaked, use it as a
                    >learning tool, and sell it- in hopes of finding that elusive serious
                    >american lathe, or perhaps even a good asian machine.
                    >
                    >I actually have a lead on a local LeBlond regal 10 for a good price.
                    >It is apparently a nice solid machine, but it has babbits as well, so
                    >maybe it wouldn't make sense to get. It is bound to be more accurate
                    >than this craftsman, but it does not have qc gears, and in fact is
                    >missing its extra loose change gears.
                    >
                    >
                    Yikes. I'll never use another lathe with change gears. I find I use the
                    power feed too much, and often change the feed rate every few cuts, too.
                    With the change gears MISSING, you could be in for some serious
                    expense just to make the lathe usable. The spindle bearings could be fine,
                    but you won't know without doing some tests.

                    Jon
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