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Collet Drawbar

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  • Kim Wood
    I have a 12X36 atlas/craftsman 101.2840 and recently obtained a collet draw bar set up for a south bend 9 , the collet adapter is #3 Morse and the collets are
    Message 1 of 17 , May 4, 2003
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      I have a 12X36 atlas/craftsman 101.2840 and recently obtained a collet draw
      bar set up for a south bend 9", the collet adapter is #3 Morse and the
      collets are 3C, the spindle nose is the same size as the south bend so the
      protective cap even fits. My problem is the draw bar is a little too long,
      by some experimentation I have calculated that I need a 1.8" spacer to make
      everything work out.

      My question is for anyone on the list that has a "real" atlas collet draw
      bar and would be willing to measure the length from the shoulder near the
      hand wheel (where the bar buts up against the spindle) to the end of the
      bar where the collets screw on and send it to me or post it on the
      list? 3AT and 3C collets are different in length but I can figure out
      precisely what I need in the way of a spacer if I knew the length of the
      "real" draw bar.

      Thanks
      Kim
    • Kim Wood
      ... Kim
      Message 2 of 17 , May 4, 2003
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        >Saw a typo after I hit send! The model should be 101.28940.


        Kim
      • jerdal
        And don t you need a certain amount of spacer just in order to be able to comfortably turn the drawtube handwheel? I would not worry too much about the extra
        Message 3 of 17 , May 4, 2003
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          And don't you need a certain amount of spacer just in order to be able to
          comfortably turn the drawtube handwheel?

          I would not worry too much about the extra length.

          Jerrold


          > I have a 12X36 atlas/craftsman 101.2840 and recently obtained a collet
          draw
          > bar set up for a south bend 9", the collet adapter is #3 Morse and the
          > collets are 3C, the spindle nose is the same size as the south bend so the
          > protective cap even fits. My problem is the draw bar is a little too
          long,
          > by some experimentation I have calculated that I need a 1.8" spacer to
          make
          > everything work out.
          > My question is for anyone on the list that has a "real" atlas collet draw
          > bar and would be willing to measure the length from the shoulder near the
          > hand wheel (where the bar buts up against the spindle) to the end of the
          > bar where the collets screw on and send it to me or post it on the
          >
        • Kim Wood
          ... I have limited machining experience but I think you are right the overall length is actually handy as it clears the gear guards quite handily. However,
          Message 4 of 17 , May 4, 2003
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            At 08:39 PM 5/4/2003 -0500, you wrote:
            >And don't you need a certain amount of spacer just in order to be able to
            >comfortably turn the drawtube handwheel?
            >
            >I would not worry too much about the extra length.

            I have limited machining experience but I think you are right the overall
            length is actually handy as it clears the gear guards quite
            handily. However, doesn't the draw bar actually pull the collet between
            the shoulder on the hand wheel end and the adapter in the spindle
            nose? The shoulder has to bear on the back end of the spindle or be spaced
            up so it does, doesn't it?

            Kim
          • Kirk M Scammon
            Kim, I picked up a southbend drawbar and collets at a flea market, I didn t get the closer with it though. I made a new closer out some 1.5 inch round stock.
            Message 5 of 17 , May 5, 2003
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              Kim,
              I picked up a southbend drawbar and collets at a flea market, I
              didn't get the closer with it though. I made a new closer out some 1.5
              inch round stock. It stickes out about 2 inches from the front of the
              spindle. That is about the amount same amout that you have to make up. You
              could bore a piece of 1 inch round stock to just fit over the draw bar and
              turn the ends so that they have the same taper ( I think 45 degrees ) one
              internal and the outher external. This would go on the drawbar before
              inserting it into the spindle.

              Kirk
              12x36 A/C and MF mill

              On Sun, 4 May 2003, Kim Wood wrote:

              > At 08:39 PM 5/4/2003 -0500, you wrote:
              > >And don't you need a certain amount of spacer just in order to be able to
              > >comfortably turn the drawtube handwheel?
              > >
              > >I would not worry too much about the extra length.
              >
              > I have limited machining experience but I think you are right the overall
              > length is actually handy as it clears the gear guards quite
              > handily. However, doesn't the draw bar actually pull the collet between
              > the shoulder on the hand wheel end and the adapter in the spindle
              > nose? The shoulder has to bear on the back end of the spindle or be spaced
              > up so it does, doesn't it?
              >
              > Kim
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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              >
              >
            • Sagebush9@aol.com
              Kim, the drawbar for my 12 , 101.28990, is 8-15/16 from the threaded end to where the shoulder contacts the countersunk end of the spindle. This is a setup I
              Message 6 of 17 , May 5, 2003
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                Kim, the drawbar for my 12", 101.28990, is 8-15/16" from the threaded end to
                where the shoulder contacts the countersunk end of the spindle. This is a
                setup I built myself, so may not correspond exactly to a factory-built
                drawbar. I arrived at the length by "trial & error", of course...I would
                think you could arrive at a length for a spacer that will work. You are right
                in that the drawbar has to bear against the end of the spindle to pull the
                collet into the holder.
                HTH, Ron Moorland


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Jerry E. Miller
                ... How Much Do You want For lathe? What Condition? Tooling? Phone Number Address? I Live In Brentwood Which Is Next To Concord.
                Message 7 of 17 , May 5, 2003
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                  Chris Difani wrote:

                  > Folks:
                  >
                  > Please forgive my crass commercialization here, but I know of no better
                  > group to talk to about this.
                  >
                  > I have a Atlas 12" by 48" lathe with quick change, etc., and a Atlas
                  > horizontal mill that I need to sell. I am near Sacramento, CA, 95662. If
                  > anyone is interested, please contact me off list at cdifani@...
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  >
                  > Chris
                  > cdifani@...
                  >
                  > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                  > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                  > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Atlas-Craftsman Projects list is at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman_projects/
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

                  How Much Do You want For lathe?
                  What Condition?
                  Tooling?
                  Phone Number Address?
                  I Live In Brentwood Which Is Next To Concord.
                • rpm2290028
                  Kim, I had a similar problem when I got my 07403, I got most of the parts for the collet setup, including a full set of collets, but couldn t figure out how to
                  Message 8 of 17 , May 5, 2003
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                    Kim, I had a similar problem when I got my 07403, I got most of the
                    parts for the collet setup, including a full set of collets, but
                    couldn't figure out how to close it. You are right, you do need a
                    spacer in between the Drawbar handle and the outer end of the spindle,
                    or the closing action has nothing but air to push against.
                    I used a length of 3/4" copper pipe, as in plumbing, and just trimmed
                    it down until the length was right. My spacer is 2 3/4" long, but I'm
                    not sure if my drawbar is an official Atlas one or one cobbled from
                    another lathe altogether.
                    Good luck, Richard in Los Angeles-
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • jerdal
                    ... spaced ... Yes, but how is that a problem? That is what the spacer reasts on. Often it is coned a bit so it will center Jerrold
                    Message 9 of 17 , May 5, 2003
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                      > I have limited machining experience but I think you are right the overall
                      > length is actually handy as it clears the gear guards quite
                      > handily. However, doesn't the draw bar actually pull the collet between
                      > the shoulder on the hand wheel end and the adapter in the spindle
                      > nose? The shoulder has to bear on the back end of the spindle or be
                      spaced
                      > up so it does, doesn't it?

                      Yes, but how is that a problem? That is what the spacer reasts on. Often it
                      is 'coned" a bit so it will center

                      Jerrold
                    • Kim Wood
                      Yes what you say is true, but the spacer needs to be long enough to engage enough threads on the collet but not too long so it bottoms out on the back of the
                      Message 10 of 17 , May 6, 2003
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                        Yes what you say is true, but the spacer needs to be long enough to engage
                        enough threads on the collet but not too long so it "bottoms" out on the
                        back of the adapter. I have machined a spacer that is slightly coned on
                        one end to center in the spindle now I need to cut it to length, the
                        question was what length?

                        At 11:50 PM 5/5/2003 -0500, you wrote:
                        >Yes, but how is that a problem? That is what the spacer reasts on. Often it
                        >is 'coned" a bit so it will center
                      • jerdal
                        Well, you can measure it! Check the collet in the closer and see how many threads are exposed when seated reasonably. This need not be terribly precise. If
                        Message 11 of 17 , May 7, 2003
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                          Well, you can measure it!
                          Check the collet in the closer and see how many threads are exposed when
                          seated reasonably. This need not be terribly precise.
                          If you count turns so that you are about 2/3 or so of the way to the closer
                          when you assemble without the spacer, you should be there with some room to
                          spare.

                          Give the closer a "tunk" with a piece of wood to seat it. When using the
                          drawbar, that usually will pull it a bit past the hand-tight area, and you
                          need it to be where it will be.

                          Then measure the exposed length while tugging on the drawbar.

                          You can cut spacer a bit long and then count turns as you put the whole
                          thing together. Adjust length to get it where you want it. I would allow
                          room for at least one washer for ease of turning.

                          Jerrold


                          > Yes what you say is true, but the spacer needs to be long enough to engage
                          > enough threads on the collet but not too long so it "bottoms" out on the
                          > back of the adapter. I have machined a spacer that is slightly coned on
                          > one end to center in the spindle now I need to cut it to length, the
                          > question was what length?
                          >
                          > At 11:50 PM 5/5/2003 -0500, you wrote:
                          > >Yes, but how is that a problem? That is what the spacer reasts on. Often
                          it
                          > >is 'coned" a bit so it will center
                        • Kim Wood
                          Thanks for all the help and time, I appreciate it. Kim
                          Message 12 of 17 , May 7, 2003
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                            Thanks for all the help and time, I appreciate it.

                            Kim

                            At 07:57 AM 5/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
                            >Well, you can measure it!
                            >Check the collet in the closer and see how many threads are exposed when
                            >seated reasonably. This need not be terribly precise.
                            >If you count turns so that you are about 2/3 or so of the way to the closer
                            >when you assemble without the spacer, you should be there with some room to
                            >spare.
                            >
                            >Give the closer a "tunk" with a piece of wood to seat it. When using the
                            >drawbar, that usually will pull it a bit past the hand-tight area, and you
                            >need it to be where it will be.
                            >
                            >Then measure the exposed length while tugging on the drawbar.
                            >
                            >You can cut spacer a bit long and then count turns as you put the whole
                            >thing together. Adjust length to get it where you want it. I would allow
                            >room for at least one washer for ease of turning.
                            >
                            >Jerrold
                            >
                            >
                            > > Yes what you say is true, but the spacer needs to be long enough to engage
                            > > enough threads on the collet but not too long so it "bottoms" out on the
                            > > back of the adapter. I have machined a spacer that is slightly coned on
                            > > one end to center in the spindle now I need to cut it to length, the
                            > > question was what length?
                            > >
                            > > At 11:50 PM 5/5/2003 -0500, you wrote:
                            > > >Yes, but how is that a problem? That is what the spacer reasts on. Often
                            >it
                            > > >is 'coned" a bit so it will center
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
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                            >
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                            >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman_projects/
                            >
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                          • Kim Wood
                            Thanks to everyone who offered advice. I finished the spacer for my Collet Drawbar, if any one else is trying to use a south bend 9 collet closer drawbar and
                            Message 13 of 17 , May 11, 2003
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                              Thanks to everyone who offered advice. I finished the spacer for my Collet
                              Drawbar, if any one else is trying to use a south bend 9" collet closer
                              drawbar and spindle adapter on a 12" atlas/craftsman, the necessary spacer
                              over all length worked out to 1.600 inches with a .100 inch long 60 degree
                              taper outer on one end to center on the spindle recess and inner on the
                              other to let the exiting drawbar shoulder center on it, the bore is .750
                              inch. Outer diameter of 1.125 worked OK but it could be smaller if desired
                              or stock was smaller.

                              Kim
                              12X36 Atlas Quick Change
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