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Re: [atlas_craftsman] Layout dye

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  • Bob May
    Just about like any paint. Wipe the brush so that it s not carrying too much of the paint (it is a thin lacquer) and then wipe onto the surface you want to
    Message 1 of 14 , May 2 11:15 AM
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      Just about like any paint. Wipe the brush so that it's not carrying too
      much of the paint (it is a thin lacquer) and then wipe onto the surface you
      want to mark. I tend to fill with additional thinner for it after the can
      gets down a bit just to make the color thinner and stretch it out.
      But that was years ago, now I just use a blue or black Magic Marker (the big
      ones that are "permanent") for the work and they work about as well and are
      cheaper and less liable to spill.
      Bob May
      http://nav.to/bobmay
      bobmay@...
      NEW! http://bobmay.astronomy.net
    • jcgerb
      Jon, I do not get how your optical readout looks like. Have a pic ? Am much interested as I do not know how to file!!!!! Jean-Claude, Switzerland
      Message 2 of 14 , May 2 1:39 PM
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        Jon,

        I do not get how your optical readout looks like. Have a pic ? Am much
        interested as I do not know how to file!!!!!

        Jean-Claude, Switzerland
        www.homestead.com/turnandlathe

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Jon Elson" <elson@...>
        To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 8:03 PM
        Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Layout dye


        > HUNLEY31@... wrote:
        >
        > > Hi List,
        > > How do you guys store and apply the blue layout dye? I've been using
        the
        > > can with a brush in cap as purchased. There must be a better way. It's a
        mess
        > > every time I have to use it. This stuff gets everywhere. Thanks,
        >
        > I don't use it anymore. I used to do layout with it, and my holes never
        came
        > out very accurately. I put a type of optical readout (what people used
        befre
        > the DRO)
        > on my mill, and suddenly, everything was on target! No more filing out
        bolt
        > holes to fit the drunken threaded holes. the guys at our shop still use
        it for
        > some work, but they use the spray can variety.
        >
        > Jon
        >
        >
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        >
        >
        >
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        >
        >
      • Jon Elson
        ... The scales look something like a DRO scale, but there is an opening in the front, and you can see a mirror-like glass plate there. If you looked at it
        Message 3 of 14 , May 2 10:12 PM
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          jcgerb wrote:

          > Jon,
          >
          > I do not get how your optical readout looks like. Have a pic ? Am much
          > interested as I do not know how to file!!!!!

          The scales look something like a DRO scale, but there is an opening in
          the front, and you can see a mirror-like glass plate there. If you looked
          at it with a magnifier, you would see little dark stripes and numbers on
          the mirror. There is a readout box that mounts to the saddle (or knee
          for the Y) with a 1" dovetail slide with a little leadscrew on it. It is about

          a 4" cube, with a glass window in the top, and a metal cover that protects
          the glass and shuts off the light bulb. When opened, the light bulb is
          focussed on the scale, and the reflected image is enlarged and
          projected on a ground glass plate in the readout box. There is a
          vernier mechanism that projects a mark like this : ) ( over the scale.
          The vernier is marked from 00 to 99, and sets the thousandths and
          ten-thousandths offset. You can align some reference on the part or
          fixture with an even inch graduation of the scale with the dovetail slide
          and leadscrew, with the vernier set to 00. Then, you set the thous and
          tenthou digits into the vernier, and move so the desired coordinate inch
          and tenth inch number is in the window, and count out the hundredths
          tick marks. Centering the hundredth tick mark between the ) ( marks
          completes the move. This sounds complicated, but it was actually
          pretty easy to use. About as hard as unsing a vernier caliper or
          micrometer.

          But, they are clunky, and you can't set the scale to zero, only the nearest
          inch mark. This led to a bit of calculation and scribbling offsets on the
          prints.

          These units were commonly called "Bridgeport Opticals", and were made
          in the 1960s by VeriScope of Long Island, NY. I found mine in a scrap
          yard for $15, but the scales had gotten water in them and were corroded.
          Still usable, but not as easy to use, as some digits were unreadable.

          Jon
        • huntfamgjc
          BE VERRY CAREFULL WITH THE SPRAY CANS OF LAYOUTDIE IT IS ABOUT 100 TIMES MORE FLAMABLE THAN THE BRUSH ON TYPE!!! Just look at the warning label , most dont
          Message 4 of 14 , May 2 11:40 PM
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            BE VERRY CAREFULL WITH THE SPRAY CANS OF LAYOUTDIE IT IS ABOUT 100
            TIMES MORE FLAMABLE THAN THE BRUSH ON TYPE!!! Just look at the
            warning label , most dont just say flamable , but say "explosive" the
            label will allso list ingreedeants such as propane,aceatone,patrolium
            distilants,and lots of other verry flamable stuff! I saw a guy at a
            shop I once worked in spray some on a shaft that he had just welded
            and was going to redo a step on and the layoutdie burst into flames
            as soon as it hit the shaft!! It had ben 3 or 4 minuts since he
            finished welding it!
            George Hunt


            the guys at our shop still use it for
            some work, but they use the spray can variety.

            Jon
          • Mike Ward
            What is a DRO Scale? ... From: elson [mailto:elson]On Behalf Of Jon Elson Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 12:13 AM To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:
            Message 5 of 14 , May 3 5:26 AM
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              What is a DRO Scale?

              -----Original Message-----
              From: elson [mailto:elson]On Behalf Of Jon Elson
              Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 12:13 AM
              To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Layout dye


              jcgerb wrote:

              > Jon,
              >
              > I do not get how your optical readout looks like. Have a pic ? Am much
              > interested as I do not know how to file!!!!!

              The scales look something like a DRO scale, but there is an opening in
              the front, and you can see a mirror-like glass plate there. If you looked
              at it with a magnifier, you would see little dark stripes and numbers on
              the mirror. There is a readout box that mounts to the saddle (or knee
              for the Y) with a 1" dovetail slide with a little leadscrew on it. It is
              about

              a 4" cube, with a glass window in the top, and a metal cover that protects
              the glass and shuts off the light bulb. When opened, the light bulb is
              focussed on the scale, and the reflected image is enlarged and
              projected on a ground glass plate in the readout box. There is a
              vernier mechanism that projects a mark like this : ) ( over the scale.
              The vernier is marked from 00 to 99, and sets the thousandths and
              ten-thousandths offset. You can align some reference on the part or
              fixture with an even inch graduation of the scale with the dovetail slide
              and leadscrew, with the vernier set to 00. Then, you set the thous and
              tenthou digits into the vernier, and move so the desired coordinate inch
              and tenth inch number is in the window, and count out the hundredths
              tick marks. Centering the hundredth tick mark between the ) ( marks
              completes the move. This sounds complicated, but it was actually
              pretty easy to use. About as hard as unsing a vernier caliper or
              micrometer.

              But, they are clunky, and you can't set the scale to zero, only the nearest
              inch mark. This led to a bit of calculation and scribbling offsets on the
              prints.

              These units were commonly called "Bridgeport Opticals", and were made
              in the 1960s by VeriScope of Long Island, NY. I found mine in a scrap
              yard for $15, but the scales had gotten water in them and were corroded.
              Still usable, but not as easy to use, as some digits were unreadable.

              Jon


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            • glenco2@juno.com
              Mike; a DRO is a digital readout . Home machinist list some in advertisements. Expensive. Glen On Fri, 3 May 2002 07:26:54 -0500 Mike Ward
              Message 6 of 14 , May 3 7:08 AM
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                Mike; a DRO is a digital readout .
                Home machinist list some in advertisements.
                Expensive.
                Glen

                On Fri, 3 May 2002 07:26:54 -0500 "Mike Ward" <MikeWard@...>
                writes:
                > What is a DRO Scale?
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: elson [mailto:elson]On Behalf Of Jon Elson
                > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 12:13 AM
                > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Layout dye
                >
                >
                > jcgerb wrote:
                >
                > > Jon,
                > >
                > > I do not get how your optical readout looks like. Have a pic ? Am
                > much
                > > interested as I do not know how to file!!!!!
                >
                > The scales look something like a DRO scale, but there is an opening
                > in
                > the front, and you can see a mirror-like glass plate there. If you
                > looked
                > at it with a magnifier, you would see little dark stripes and
                > numbers on
                > the mirror. There is a readout box that mounts to the saddle (or
                > knee
                > for the Y) with a 1" dovetail slide with a little leadscrew on it.
                > It is
                > about
                >
                > a 4" cube, with a glass window in the top, and a metal cover that
                > protects
                > the glass and shuts off the light bulb. When opened, the light bulb
                > is
                > focussed on the scale, and the reflected image is enlarged and
                > projected on a ground glass plate in the readout box. There is a
                > vernier mechanism that projects a mark like this : ) ( over the
                > scale.
                > The vernier is marked from 00 to 99, and sets the thousandths and
                > ten-thousandths offset. You can align some reference on the part or
                > fixture with an even inch graduation of the scale with the dovetail
                > slide
                > and leadscrew, with the vernier set to 00. Then, you set the thous
                > and
                > tenthou digits into the vernier, and move so the desired coordinate
                > inch
                > and tenth inch number is in the window, and count out the hundredths
                > tick marks. Centering the hundredth tick mark between the ) ( marks
                > completes the move. This sounds complicated, but it was actually
                > pretty easy to use. About as hard as unsing a vernier caliper or
                > micrometer.
                >
                > But, they are clunky, and you can't set the scale to zero, only the
                > nearest
                > inch mark. This led to a bit of calculation and scribbling offsets
                > on the
                > prints.
                >
                > These units were commonly called "Bridgeport Opticals", and were
                > made
                > in the 1960s by VeriScope of Long Island, NY. I found mine in a
                > scrap
                > yard for $15, but the scales had gotten water in them and were
                > corroded.
                > Still usable, but not as easy to use, as some digits were
                > unreadable.
                >
                > Jon
                >
                >
                > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
                > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >


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              • Jon Elson
                ... A DRO is a Digital Read Out. These have been fitted to milling machines and lathes since the late 1960 s. The classic unit has a rectangular box attached
                Message 7 of 14 , May 3 10:40 AM
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                  Mike Ward wrote:

                  > What is a DRO Scale?

                  A DRO is a Digital Read Out. These have been fitted to milling machines
                  and lathes since the late 1960's. The classic unit has a rectangular box
                  attached to the front of the mill's table, with a read head attached to the
                  saddle (and a similar arrangement for Y axis). The box is about 1" square
                  and as long as the table. It has a glass scale inside with a metal pattern
                  deposited on it to form an optical grating. An analyzer containing a pair of
                  similar gratings and photocells slides along the scale, and the alignment of
                  the analyzer gratings produce a 90 degree phase shift in the brightness
                  of light reaching the 2 sets of photocells as the analyzer moves. This
                  produces the familiar quadrature pattern which allows both distance and
                  direction to be decoded from these signals.

                  These units are commonly called spars, linear encoders, optical scales,
                  glass scales, readout spars, etc.

                  There are other techniques that do the same job with other techniques,
                  such as the magnetosyn, a linear resolver, the Newall ball readout, and
                  the magnetostrictive position detector.

                  A cheaper method uses a wire, pulleys and cheap rotary encoders.

                  Jon
                • Ronald Thibault
                  ... I put mine in a small glass jar, with a screw on lid. In my case a mayonnaise jar. I use acid brushes, and wipe the excess off on the inside if the jar.
                  Message 8 of 14 , May 12 4:14 AM
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                    At 12:26 PM 5/2/02 -0400, you wrote:
                    > Hi List,
                    > How do you guys store and apply the blue layout dye? I've been using the
                    >can with a brush in cap as purchased. There must be a better way. It's a mess
                    >every time I have to use it. This stuff gets everywhere. Thanks,
                    >
                    >
                    >Hank

                    I put mine in a small glass jar, with a screw on lid. In my case a
                    mayonnaise jar. I use acid brushes, and wipe the excess off on the inside
                    if the jar. every now and then I wipe the thread area with acetone, to get
                    rid of any buildup. The brushes can be used several times before the
                    buildup gets to bad, or cleaned in another jar of acetone.

                    Ron Thibault
                    Warrenville, SC USA
                    http://pages.prodigy.net/thibaultr/
                  • (no author)
                    ?ISO-8859-1?B?g50=?= To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To:
                    Message 9 of 14 , May 12 6:55 AM
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                      Use a blue Sharpie permanent marker!

                      Alex
                    • wa9gob@aol.com
                      I use the stuff that comes like shoe polish, it just dabbs on. works good no mess,
                      Message 10 of 14 , May 13 11:00 PM
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                        I use the stuff that comes like shoe polish, it just dabbs on. works good no
                        mess,
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