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Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Looking for 4 jaw chuck

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  • Paul Nance
    Hello- I have ordered from Lathes UK. Their products are good. If you need Atlas manuals, I d order from Atlas/Clausing. Unless you really want to get the CD
    Message 1 of 27 , Apr 3, 2002
      Hello-

      I have ordered from Lathes UK. Their products are good. If you need
      Atlas manuals, I'd order from Atlas/Clausing. Unless you really want to get
      the CD versions which Atlas/Clausing does not offer. If you want anything
      else I've always recieved first rate sharp clear copies.

      Paul N
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Chabannes Rene N Contr ASC/YCD" <Rene.Chabannes@...>
      To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 4:40 AM
      Subject: RE: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Looking for 4 jaw chuck


      > HAs anyone dealt with the British company offering manuals for ald
      machines at: http://www.lathes.co.uk/manuals.htm
      >
      > Rene N. Chabannes (Titan)
      > ASC/YC - Productions Operations
      > C-17 SPO, WPAFB, OH
      > 937-255-1042 (DSN 785-1042)
      > rene.chabannes@...
      >
      >
      > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
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      >
      >
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      >
      >
    • gyachts
      ... I started searching right after posting that, and sure enough I found one that will do the job. I think I might try to make one also. After I get my
      Message 2 of 27 , Apr 3, 2002
        > Check the MSC catalog. They sell threaded and unthreaded back
        > plates. CZ

        I started searching right after posting that, and sure enough I
        found one that will do the job. I think I might try to make one
        also. After I get my boring bar set... I have a small precision
        chuck I bought at a garage sale that is probably from a jewelers
        lathe or something. I would like to make a plate for it to mount
        on. I would also like a plate to use with a center and dogs.

        Thanks for all the great info.

        Greg

        Making chips... No honey I didn't realize it was 3:00am... See all
        these pretty curled chips... Well that name was uncalled for... Be
        right to bed as soon as I finish this...
      • paul_probus
        Congrats. I believe you ve already seen MSC s products, judging by your posts. As far as a 4 Jaw chuck, I believe I ve seen somewhere where the Bison brand
        Message 3 of 27 , Apr 3, 2002
          Congrats. I believe you've already seen MSC's products, judging by
          your posts. As far as a 4 Jaw chuck, I believe I've seen somewhere
          where the Bison brand are good economy chucks, but someone with
          better knowledge of this brand would be better to ask (please chime
          in if you have experience with such brand).

          If you want cheaper to get you through until you can afford better
          (though it may turn out their good enough that you don't
          need "better"), check with Grizzly at:

          www.grizzlyimports.com

          They have cheaper chucks, probably made in China, back plates for the
          chucks and at least one live center set. Dead centers should be
          fairly cheap, I think, even from MSC.

          Another cheap tool source would be Harbor Freight. I haven't paid
          attention to their lathe accessories, but they should be of similar
          quality as Grizzly and typically their stuff is less expensive
          (though that is not the case for everything).

          I can't think of anyone else who would have what you need that is as
          inexpensive as these two companies. Jet products are made by the
          same factories but they tend to put a premium $ on their products
          that I am not sure is justified. Enco seems to be more expensive
          than MSC on the few things I have compared prices on (yet they are
          owned by MSC).

          Hope that helps,
          Paul

          --- In atlas_craftsman@y..., "gyachts" <gyachts@y...> wrote:
          > I to am looking for a 4 jaw chuck for my Atlas 12 incher.
          >
          > I've only had mine for about 2 weeks and just have enough of the
          > grime off to see how sloppy everything is. It looks like I have
          > some slop in the cross travel but it seems to only need new gibs.
          > And the carriage movement via the handle is stiff and has some
          spots
          > where it sticks. It can also be pushed back and forth about 1/2
          > inch.
          > Where should I start with the carriage to tighten everything up?
          >
          > All the threading gears seem to be ok, and the bearings seem to be
          > tight.
          >
          > I only have the 3 jaw chuck and no face plate or dogs.
          >
          > I'm also looking for centers and live centers that fit the tail
          > stock. Can anyone recommend a good solid economical set? I know
          > you get what you pay for, but my wallet is pretty thin right now.
          >
          > Greg Yotz
          > Gridley, Kansas
          > 12 inch Atlas, Minimill, rusty file, dull tools, thin wallet
        • Fred & Liz Lusen
          Paul, I think you have some disinformation there. No way does Harbor Freight begin to even approach the caliber of equipment and accessories that Grizzly
          Message 4 of 27 , Apr 3, 2002
            Paul,

            I think you have some disinformation there. No way does Harbor Freight
            begin to even approach the caliber of equipment and accessories that Grizzly
            markets. I have many pieces from Grizzly including a milling machine and
            also a local HF that I visit occasionally. No comparison between the two.

            Fred Lusen

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "paul_probus" <paul_probus@...>
            To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 2:32 PM
            Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Looking for 4 jaw chuck


            > Congrats. I believe you've already seen MSC's products, judging by
            > your posts. As far as a 4 Jaw chuck, I believe I've seen somewhere
            > where the Bison brand are good economy chucks, but someone with
            > better knowledge of this brand would be better to ask (please chime
            > in if you have experience with such brand).
            >
            > If you want cheaper to get you through until you can afford better
            > (though it may turn out their good enough that you don't
            > need "better"), check with Grizzly at:
            >
            > www.grizzlyimports.com
            >
            > They have cheaper chucks, probably made in China, back plates for the
            > chucks and at least one live center set. Dead centers should be
            > fairly cheap, I think, even from MSC.
            >
            > Another cheap tool source would be Harbor Freight. I haven't paid
            > attention to their lathe accessories, but they should be of similar
            > quality as Grizzly and typically their stuff is less expensive
            > (though that is not the case for everything).
            >
            > I can't think of anyone else who would have what you need that is as
            > inexpensive as these two companies. Jet products are made by the
            > same factories but they tend to put a premium $ on their products
            > that I am not sure is justified. Enco seems to be more expensive
            > than MSC on the few things I have compared prices on (yet they are
            > owned by MSC).
            >
            > Hope that helps,
            > Paul
            >
            > --- In atlas_craftsman@y..., "gyachts" <gyachts@y...> wrote:
            > > I to am looking for a 4 jaw chuck for my Atlas 12 incher.
            > >
            > > I've only had mine for about 2 weeks and just have enough of the
            > > grime off to see how sloppy everything is. It looks like I have
            > > some slop in the cross travel but it seems to only need new gibs.
            > > And the carriage movement via the handle is stiff and has some
            > spots
            > > where it sticks. It can also be pushed back and forth about 1/2
            > > inch.
            > > Where should I start with the carriage to tighten everything up?
            > >
            > > All the threading gears seem to be ok, and the bearings seem to be
            > > tight.
            > >
            > > I only have the 3 jaw chuck and no face plate or dogs.
            > >
            > > I'm also looking for centers and live centers that fit the tail
            > > stock. Can anyone recommend a good solid economical set? I know
            > > you get what you pay for, but my wallet is pretty thin right now.
            > >
            > > Greg Yotz
            > > Gridley, Kansas
            > > 12 inch Atlas, Minimill, rusty file, dull tools, thin wallet
            >
            >
            > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
            > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
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            >
            >
            >
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            >
            >
          • gyachts
            I actually had a chance to meet a gentlemen at an airport about 8 months ago that is the import agent for an Import/Export business. They use to represent
            Message 5 of 27 , Apr 3, 2002
              I actually had a chance to meet a gentlemen at an airport about 8
              months ago that is the import agent for an Import/Export business.
              They use to represent Harbour Freight and several other discount tool
              companies and still do some, though he said HF does all their own now
              in house. He said that in fact some of the equipment that HF,
              Grizzly, Enco, Jet etc sell come from the same factories. He said
              how ever, that there are standards that the different companies use
              when buying and that there is a difference in the machines, but
              sometimes only slight ones. He said it could be anything from paint
              color to the guarenteed accuracy to the type of motor, to the grade
              of casting material. So they all look simular but are not all the
              same. He said sometimes though the cheaper will be the better but
              most times not. He said that sometimes two machines will look
              exactly alike but come from different factories. He said they steal
              each others designs or designers move from company to company over
              there.

              It opened my eyes. Check on everything and pay for what you have to,
              to do the job you want. He said, if you don't mind doing some of
              your own work on a lesser machine to save money, you can come out
              with just as good of machine as the more expensive ones. I try to do
              this when ever I can. He also said that some of the companies here
              invest more cost in operations here before shipment to the customer.
              I can't belive HF does anything. Sometimes they don't even know
              what's in a box they give you.

              Greg
            • jerdal
              ... Also Victor Machinery, www.victornet.com Jerry
              Message 6 of 27 , Apr 3, 2002
                > > Check the MSC catalog. They sell threaded and unthreaded back
                > > plates. CZ

                Also Victor Machinery, www.victornet.com

                Jerry
              • paul_probus
                Fred, I have been reading messages on the internet about metalworking machinery for about seven years now and just about everyone is in agreement that the
                Message 7 of 27 , Apr 4, 2002
                  Fred,

                  I have been reading messages on the internet about metalworking
                  machinery for about seven years now and just about everyone is in
                  agreement that the factory that makes the 9x20 lathe for Grizzly is
                  the same factory that makes the 9x20 for HF and Jet, Enco, etc. The
                  only exception I have found is in the 7x12's. One factory makes the
                  7x12's for Griz. and others, while another factory makes the 7x12
                  that seems to be only carried by Homier. Now as far as Griz., Jet,
                  etc. paying for extra factory prep. I have doubts that they actually
                  do and much of the discussions I have read regarding this are pretty
                  much split 50/50. I have probably read the same number of posts from
                  people complaining about Griz. products as from HF. From what I
                  understand you should not judge the HF displays in their stores.
                  There are a lot of people who have been saying that they reluctantly
                  ordered a machine from HF after seeing the poor quality display
                  model, to find out the one shipped is much better quality than the
                  display model. Whether these people compared their shipped machine
                  to the equivalent Griz. in the show room, I can't answer, I would
                  guess that they have not, though.

                  However, this is all discussion about machines. The original poster
                  wanted to know about getting an inexpensive 4 jaw chuck. Bison,
                  based on what I have read about them, are supposedly pretty good
                  chucks that are inexpensive. I have read that their 5C collet chuck
                  is supposed to be very high quality and rivals the equivalent top of
                  the line brand (is it Royal? or Buck?) collet chuck of similar
                  design. I recommended getting a Griz. 4 Jaw chuck if he were very
                  strapped for cash or he could check out HF, which I am not sure if
                  they sell lathe chucks, I don't have their latest or large catalog.
                  I don't know how good the Griz. or HF chuck would be, it may be as
                  good in quality as the Bison for all I know. If neither one was as
                  good as the Bison, then he could still buy them and use them until he
                  could afford the Bison or save even more for the Buck (top o' the
                  line). Either way, I believe the quality of either the Griz. or HF 4
                  jaw chuck would be good enough as a "temporary" and a "starter" 4 jaw
                  chuck.

                  I'm not saying that my information is correct, I'm just saying that I
                  have done quite a bit of reading on HF, Griz. and others' quality.

                  Paul

                  --- In atlas_craftsman@y..., "Fred & Liz Lusen" <fl.lusen@v...> wrote:
                  > Paul,
                  >
                  > I think you have some disinformation there. No way does Harbor
                  Freight
                  > begin to even approach the caliber of equipment and accessories
                  that Grizzly
                  > markets. I have many pieces from Grizzly including a milling
                  machine and
                  > also a local HF that I visit occasionally. No comparison between
                  the two.
                  >
                  > Fred Lusen
                  >
                • Fred & Liz Lusen
                  Duly noted. Fred ... From: paul_probus To: Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 11:43 AM Subject:
                  Message 8 of 27 , Apr 4, 2002
                    Duly noted.

                    Fred

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "paul_probus" <paul_probus@...>
                    To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 11:43 AM
                    Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Looking for 4 jaw chuck


                    > Fred,
                    >
                    > I have been reading messages on the internet about metalworking
                    > machinery for about seven years now and just about everyone is in
                    > agreement that the factory that makes the 9x20 lathe for Grizzly is
                    > the same factory that makes the 9x20 for HF and Jet, Enco, etc. The
                    > only exception I have found is in the 7x12's. One factory makes the
                    > 7x12's for Griz. and others, while another factory makes the 7x12
                    > that seems to be only carried by Homier. Now as far as Griz., Jet,
                    > etc. paying for extra factory prep. I have doubts that they actually
                    > do and much of the discussions I have read regarding this are pretty
                    > much split 50/50. I have probably read the same number of posts from
                    > people complaining about Griz. products as from HF. From what I
                    > understand you should not judge the HF displays in their stores.
                    > There are a lot of people who have been saying that they reluctantly
                    > ordered a machine from HF after seeing the poor quality display
                    > model, to find out the one shipped is much better quality than the
                    > display model. Whether these people compared their shipped machine
                    > to the equivalent Griz. in the show room, I can't answer, I would
                    > guess that they have not, though.
                    >
                    > However, this is all discussion about machines. The original poster
                    > wanted to know about getting an inexpensive 4 jaw chuck. Bison,
                    > based on what I have read about them, are supposedly pretty good
                    > chucks that are inexpensive. I have read that their 5C collet chuck
                    > is supposed to be very high quality and rivals the equivalent top of
                    > the line brand (is it Royal? or Buck?) collet chuck of similar
                    > design. I recommended getting a Griz. 4 Jaw chuck if he were very
                    > strapped for cash or he could check out HF, which I am not sure if
                    > they sell lathe chucks, I don't have their latest or large catalog.
                    > I don't know how good the Griz. or HF chuck would be, it may be as
                    > good in quality as the Bison for all I know. If neither one was as
                    > good as the Bison, then he could still buy them and use them until he
                    > could afford the Bison or save even more for the Buck (top o' the
                    > line). Either way, I believe the quality of either the Griz. or HF 4
                    > jaw chuck would be good enough as a "temporary" and a "starter" 4 jaw
                    > chuck.
                    >
                    > I'm not saying that my information is correct, I'm just saying that I
                    > have done quite a bit of reading on HF, Griz. and others' quality.
                    >
                    > Paul
                    >
                    > --- In atlas_craftsman@y..., "Fred & Liz Lusen" <fl.lusen@v...> wrote:
                    > > Paul,
                    > >
                    > > I think you have some disinformation there. No way does Harbor
                    > Freight
                    > > begin to even approach the caliber of equipment and accessories
                    > that Grizzly
                    > > markets. I have many pieces from Grizzly including a milling
                    > machine and
                    > > also a local HF that I visit occasionally. No comparison between
                    > the two.
                    > >
                    > > Fred Lusen
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                    > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                    > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                  • paul_probus
                    I have read quite a few posts on this subject in the seven years that I have been reading online information about metalworking and the consensus is about a
                    Message 9 of 27 , Apr 4, 2002
                      I have read quite a few posts on this subject in the seven years that
                      I have been reading online information about metalworking and the
                      consensus is about a 50/50 split on this. I won't say that Griz. and
                      others don't re-pack their products prior to shipping since I don't
                      know, but I have read enough posts to believe that none of them
                      really know what is in the "box". Also there have been enough people
                      who have compared all the different brands to each other that I also
                      believe that there is only a minimal difference between different
                      brands of machines. About the most "radical" change I have seen is
                      Jet's use of an SAE spindle thread on the 9x20. I don't know if that
                      is done at the manufacturer or if that is done by Jet. Close behind
                      is Micro Mark's "all inch" 7x12 lathe, which has a SAE crosslide feed
                      screw and a SAE compound slide feed screw. However, I believe that
                      is a MM modification.

                      Paul


                      --- In atlas_craftsman@y..., "gyachts" <gyachts@y...> wrote:
                      > I actually had a chance to meet a gentlemen at an airport about 8
                      > months ago that is the import agent for an Import/Export business.
                      > They use to represent Harbour Freight and several other discount
                      tool
                      > companies and still do some, though he said HF does all their own
                      now
                      > in house. He said that in fact some of the equipment that HF,
                      > Grizzly, Enco, Jet etc sell come from the same factories. He said
                      > how ever, that there are standards that the different companies use
                      > when buying and that there is a difference in the machines, but
                      > sometimes only slight ones. He said it could be anything from
                      paint
                      > color to the guarenteed accuracy to the type of motor, to the grade
                      > of casting material. So they all look simular but are not all the
                      > same. He said sometimes though the cheaper will be the better but
                      > most times not. He said that sometimes two machines will look
                      > exactly alike but come from different factories. He said they
                      steal
                      > each others designs or designers move from company to company over
                      > there.
                      >
                      > It opened my eyes. Check on everything and pay for what you have
                      to,
                      > to do the job you want. He said, if you don't mind doing some of
                      > your own work on a lesser machine to save money, you can come out
                      > with just as good of machine as the more expensive ones. I try to
                      do
                      > this when ever I can. He also said that some of the companies here
                      > invest more cost in operations here before shipment to the
                      customer.
                      > I can't belive HF does anything. Sometimes they don't even know
                      > what's in a box they give you.
                      >
                      > Greg
                    • Chabannes Rene N Contr ASC/YCD
                      Does anyone have experience with Wholesale Tools? They have, far and away, the lowest cost 4 jaw chucks I ve seen. While I d buy the best I could afford, if
                      Message 10 of 27 , Apr 4, 2002
                        Does anyone have experience with Wholesale Tools? They have, far and away, the lowest cost 4 jaw chucks I've seen. While I'd buy the best I could afford, if pressed, I'd sure look at the Wholesale Tools chucks. You need to go to the last entry under 4 jaw lathe chucks.

                        Rene

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: paul_probus [mailto:paul_probus@...]
                        Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 12:44 PM
                        To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Looking for 4 jaw chuck


                        Fred,

                        I have been reading messages on the internet about metalworking
                        machinery for about seven years now and just about everyone is in
                        agreement that the factory that makes the 9x20 lathe for Grizzly is
                        the same factory that makes the 9x20 for HF and Jet, Enco, etc. The
                        only exception I have found is in the 7x12's. One factory makes the
                        7x12's for Griz. and others, while another factory makes the 7x12
                        that seems to be only carried by Homier. Now as far as Griz., Jet,
                        etc. paying for extra factory prep. I have doubts that they actually
                        do and much of the discussions I have read regarding this are pretty
                        much split 50/50. I have probably read the same number of posts from
                        people complaining about Griz. products as from HF. From what I
                        understand you should not judge the HF displays in their stores.
                        There are a lot of people who have been saying that they reluctantly
                        ordered a machine from HF after seeing the poor quality display
                        model, to find out the one shipped is much better quality than the
                        display model. Whether these people compared their shipped machine
                        to the equivalent Griz. in the show room, I can't answer, I would
                        guess that they have not, though.

                        However, this is all discussion about machines. The original poster
                        wanted to know about getting an inexpensive 4 jaw chuck. Bison,
                        based on what I have read about them, are supposedly pretty good
                        chucks that are inexpensive. I have read that their 5C collet chuck
                        is supposed to be very high quality and rivals the equivalent top of
                        the line brand (is it Royal? or Buck?) collet chuck of similar
                        design. I recommended getting a Griz. 4 Jaw chuck if he were very
                        strapped for cash or he could check out HF, which I am not sure if
                        they sell lathe chucks, I don't have their latest or large catalog.
                        I don't know how good the Griz. or HF chuck would be, it may be as
                        good in quality as the Bison for all I know. If neither one was as
                        good as the Bison, then he could still buy them and use them until he
                        could afford the Bison or save even more for the Buck (top o' the
                        line). Either way, I believe the quality of either the Griz. or HF 4
                        jaw chuck would be good enough as a "temporary" and a "starter" 4 jaw
                        chuck.

                        I'm not saying that my information is correct, I'm just saying that I
                        have done quite a bit of reading on HF, Griz. and others' quality.

                        Paul

                        --- In atlas_craftsman@y..., "Fred & Liz Lusen" <fl.lusen@v...> wrote:
                        > Paul,
                        >
                        > I think you have some disinformation there. No way does Harbor
                        Freight
                        > begin to even approach the caliber of equipment and accessories
                        that Grizzly
                        > markets. I have many pieces from Grizzly including a milling
                        machine and
                        > also a local HF that I visit occasionally. No comparison between
                        the two.
                        >
                        > Fred Lusen
                        >



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                      • PIHPGS@aol.com
                        Hi in the last two years, I have purchased 4 bison 3 jaw chucks w/and w/o threaded back plates, I have found them to be of good quality and at a reasonable
                        Message 11 of 27 , Apr 4, 2002
                          Hi
                          in the last two years, I have purchased 4 bison 3 jaw chucks w/and w/o
                          threaded
                          back plates, I have found them to be of good quality and at a reasonable
                          price.
                          we have purchased sizes from 3 inch live center chucks to 8 inch heavy duty
                          type.

                          chuck
                        • paul_probus
                          Thank you for a definitive answer to Bison quality. As a hobbiest, these would probably be my choice until another one comes along. Paul ... w/o ...
                          Message 12 of 27 , Apr 4, 2002
                            Thank you for a definitive answer to Bison quality. As a hobbiest,
                            these would probably be my choice until another one comes along.

                            Paul

                            --- In atlas_craftsman@y..., PIHPGS@a... wrote:
                            > Hi
                            > in the last two years, I have purchased 4 bison 3 jaw chucks w/and
                            w/o
                            > threaded
                            > back plates, I have found them to be of good quality and at a
                            reasonable
                            > price.
                            > we have purchased sizes from 3 inch live center chucks to 8 inch
                            heavy duty
                            > type.
                            >
                            > chuck
                          • Richard Meredith
                            Try JTS Machinery and Supply. They have a store on eBay, and a real store in Mentor Ohio. The eBay store is all Chinese imports, but they tend to be the
                            Message 13 of 27 , Apr 4, 2002
                              Try JTS Machinery and Supply. They have a store on eBay, and a real store
                              in Mentor Ohio. The eBay store is all Chinese imports, but they tend to be
                              the better quality ones. I have purchased a great deal from them, and they
                              have always made any problem right. Most of their stuff is priced with a
                              buy-it-now price that is below the going auction price for same material.
                              They usually have a selection of plain back three and four jaw chucks at low
                              price. I am using a 3-jaw 6 inch with two piece jaws from them, and I am
                              happy with it. Two piece jaws allow you to mount soft bar stock top jaws
                              that can be fixtured, or bored true for special jobs. If properly done,
                              soft jaws can give equal to or better than collet accuracy.
                              Sincerely, Rich Meredith
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Fred & Liz Lusen" <fl.lusen@...>
                              To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 12:01 PM
                              Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Looking for 4 jaw chuck


                              > Duly noted.
                              >
                              > Fred
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: "paul_probus" <paul_probus@...>
                              > To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 11:43 AM
                              > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Looking for 4 jaw chuck
                              >
                              >
                              > > Fred,
                              > >
                              > > I have been reading messages on the internet about metalworking
                              > > machinery for about seven years now and just about everyone is in
                              > > agreement that the factory that makes the 9x20 lathe for Grizzly is
                              > > the same factory that makes the 9x20 for HF and Jet, Enco, etc. The
                              > > only exception I have found is in the 7x12's. One factory makes the
                              > > 7x12's for Griz. and others, while another factory makes the 7x12
                              > > that seems to be only carried by Homier. Now as far as Griz., Jet,
                              > > etc. paying for extra factory prep. I have doubts that they actually
                              > > do and much of the discussions I have read regarding this are pretty
                              > > much split 50/50. I have probably read the same number of posts from
                              > > people complaining about Griz. products as from HF. From what I
                              > > understand you should not judge the HF displays in their stores.
                              > > There are a lot of people who have been saying that they reluctantly
                              > > ordered a machine from HF after seeing the poor quality display
                              > > model, to find out the one shipped is much better quality than the
                              > > display model. Whether these people compared their shipped machine
                              > > to the equivalent Griz. in the show room, I can't answer, I would
                              > > guess that they have not, though.
                              > >
                              > > However, this is all discussion about machines. The original poster
                              > > wanted to know about getting an inexpensive 4 jaw chuck. Bison,
                              > > based on what I have read about them, are supposedly pretty good
                              > > chucks that are inexpensive. I have read that their 5C collet chuck
                              > > is supposed to be very high quality and rivals the equivalent top of
                              > > the line brand (is it Royal? or Buck?) collet chuck of similar
                              > > design. I recommended getting a Griz. 4 Jaw chuck if he were very
                              > > strapped for cash or he could check out HF, which I am not sure if
                              > > they sell lathe chucks, I don't have their latest or large catalog.
                              > > I don't know how good the Griz. or HF chuck would be, it may be as
                              > > good in quality as the Bison for all I know. If neither one was as
                              > > good as the Bison, then he could still buy them and use them until he
                              > > could afford the Bison or save even more for the Buck (top o' the
                              > > line). Either way, I believe the quality of either the Griz. or HF 4
                              > > jaw chuck would be good enough as a "temporary" and a "starter" 4 jaw
                              > > chuck.
                              > >
                              > > I'm not saying that my information is correct, I'm just saying that I
                              > > have done quite a bit of reading on HF, Griz. and others' quality.
                              > >
                              > > Paul
                              > >
                              > > --- In atlas_craftsman@y..., "Fred & Liz Lusen" <fl.lusen@v...> wrote:
                              > > > Paul,
                              > > >
                              > > > I think you have some disinformation there. No way does Harbor
                              > > Freight
                              > > > begin to even approach the caliber of equipment and accessories
                              > > that Grizzly
                              > > > markets. I have many pieces from Grizzly including a milling
                              > > machine and
                              > > > also a local HF that I visit occasionally. No comparison between
                              > > the two.
                              > > >
                              > > > Fred Lusen
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                              > > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                              > > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                              > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
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                              >
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                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • William Langston
                              Hello folks, If someone can tell me, what is the web address for this Wholesale Tools? Thanks, Bill Langston ...
                              Message 14 of 27 , Apr 4, 2002
                                Hello folks,

                                If someone can tell me, what is the web address for
                                this Wholesale Tools?

                                Thanks,
                                Bill Langston

                                --- Chabannes Rene N Contr ASC/YCD
                                <Rene.Chabannes@...> wrote:
                                > Does anyone have experience with Wholesale Tools?
                                > They have, far and away, the lowest cost 4 jaw
                                > chucks I've seen. While I'd buy the best I could
                                > afford, if pressed, I'd sure look at the Wholesale
                                > Tools chucks. You need to go to the last entry
                                > under 4 jaw lathe chucks.
                                >
                                > Rene
                                >
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: paul_probus [mailto:paul_probus@...]
                                > Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 12:44 PM
                                > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Looking for 4 jaw
                                > chuck
                                >
                                >
                                > Fred,
                                >
                                > I have been reading messages on the internet about
                                > metalworking
                                > machinery for about seven years now and just about
                                > everyone is in
                                > agreement that the factory that makes the 9x20 lathe
                                > for Grizzly is
                                > the same factory that makes the 9x20 for HF and Jet,
                                > Enco, etc. The
                                > only exception I have found is in the 7x12's. One
                                > factory makes the
                                > 7x12's for Griz. and others, while another factory
                                > makes the 7x12
                                > that seems to be only carried by Homier. Now as far
                                > as Griz., Jet,
                                > etc. paying for extra factory prep. I have doubts
                                > that they actually
                                > do and much of the discussions I have read regarding
                                > this are pretty
                                > much split 50/50. I have probably read the same
                                > number of posts from
                                > people complaining about Griz. products as from HF.
                                > From what I
                                > understand you should not judge the HF displays in
                                > their stores.
                                > There are a lot of people who have been saying that
                                > they reluctantly
                                > ordered a machine from HF after seeing the poor
                                > quality display
                                > model, to find out the one shipped is much better
                                > quality than the
                                > display model. Whether these people compared their
                                > shipped machine
                                > to the equivalent Griz. in the show room, I can't
                                > answer, I would
                                > guess that they have not, though.
                                >
                                > However, this is all discussion about machines. The
                                > original poster
                                > wanted to know about getting an inexpensive 4 jaw
                                > chuck. Bison,
                                > based on what I have read about them, are supposedly
                                > pretty good
                                > chucks that are inexpensive. I have read that their
                                > 5C collet chuck
                                > is supposed to be very high quality and rivals the
                                > equivalent top of
                                > the line brand (is it Royal? or Buck?) collet chuck
                                > of similar
                                > design. I recommended getting a Griz. 4 Jaw chuck
                                > if he were very
                                > strapped for cash or he could check out HF, which I
                                > am not sure if
                                > they sell lathe chucks, I don't have their latest or
                                > large catalog.
                                > I don't know how good the Griz. or HF chuck would
                                > be, it may be as
                                > good in quality as the Bison for all I know. If
                                > neither one was as
                                > good as the Bison, then he could still buy them and
                                > use them until he
                                > could afford the Bison or save even more for the
                                > Buck (top o' the
                                > line). Either way, I believe the quality of either
                                > the Griz. or HF 4
                                > jaw chuck would be good enough as a "temporary" and
                                > a "starter" 4 jaw
                                > chuck.
                                >
                                > I'm not saying that my information is correct, I'm
                                > just saying that I
                                > have done quite a bit of reading on HF, Griz. and
                                > others' quality.
                                >
                                > Paul
                                >
                                > --- In atlas_craftsman@y..., "Fred & Liz Lusen"
                                > <fl.lusen@v...> wrote:
                                > > Paul,
                                > >
                                > > I think you have some disinformation there. No
                                > way does Harbor
                                > Freight
                                > > begin to even approach the caliber of equipment
                                > and accessories
                                > that Grizzly
                                > > markets. I have many pieces from Grizzly
                                > including a milling
                                > machine and
                                > > also a local HF that I visit occasionally. No
                                > comparison between
                                > the two.
                                > >
                                > > Fred Lusen
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                                > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                                > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                >
                                >
                                > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                                > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                                > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                >
                                >


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                              • Jon Elson
                                ... No, I m not sure this is true. The factory that makes the RAW CASTINGS is certainly the same - but there is a long way between the castings and the
                                Message 15 of 27 , Apr 4, 2002
                                  paul_probus wrote:

                                  > Fred,
                                  >
                                  > I have been reading messages on the internet about metalworking
                                  > machinery for about seven years now and just about everyone is in
                                  > agreement that the factory that makes the 9x20 lathe for Grizzly is
                                  > the same factory that makes the 9x20 for HF and Jet, Enco, etc.

                                  No, I'm not sure this is true. The factory that makes the RAW CASTINGS
                                  is certainly the same - but there is a long way between the castings
                                  and the finished machines. We aren't used to doing business this
                                  way in the US (or Europe). The company that has the castings made
                                  (possibly an outside foundry) OWNS the molds, or the designs of
                                  the molds, and noone else has access to the raw castings, with the
                                  possible exception of someone at the foundry sneaking an extra
                                  pour in once in a while.

                                  The Chinese business model apparently doesn't look like this. Somebody
                                  makes up the molds and gets castings poured, and then peddles the
                                  castings to large, medium and small shops. And, apparently some of
                                  the shops are REAL small, like a guy who builds one lathe a month
                                  on his back porch!

                                  The original poster

                                  > wanted to know about getting an inexpensive 4 jaw chuck. Bison,
                                  > based on what I have read about them, are supposedly pretty good
                                  > chucks that are inexpensive. I have read that their 5C collet chuck
                                  > is supposed to be very high quality and rivals the equivalent top of
                                  > the line brand (is it Royal? or Buck?) collet chuck of similar
                                  > design. I recommended getting a Griz. 4 Jaw chuck if he were very
                                  > strapped for cash or he could check out HF, which I am not sure if
                                  > they sell lathe chucks, I don't have their latest or large catalog.
                                  > I don't know how good the Griz. or HF chuck would be, it may be as
                                  > good in quality as the Bison for all I know. If neither one was as
                                  > good as the Bison, then he could still buy them and use them until he
                                  > could afford the Bison or save even more for the Buck (top o' the
                                  > line).

                                  I can't say anything abou these lines. I have had great luck with Phase-II,

                                  and got an 8" adjustable 3-jaw chuck from Travers, made by Phase-II.
                                  It is EXCELLENT, the jaws are tighter than any chuck I've ever used
                                  (but then, I've never treated myself to a NEW chuck before.)
                                  It holds anything round with runout near the undetectable limit
                                  without recentering the body.

                                  Jon
                                • Jon Elson
                                  ... I ve bought a fair amount of stuff from them, and have always been satisfied. You should check your items, though, when you get them. I think I got some
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Apr 4, 2002
                                    Chabannes Rene N Contr ASC/YCD wrote:

                                    > Does anyone have experience with Wholesale Tools? They have, far and away, the lowest cost 4 jaw chucks I've seen. While I'd buy the best I could afford, if pressed, I'd sure look at the Wholesale Tools chucks. You need to go to the last entry under 4 jaw lathe chucks.

                                    I've bought a fair amount of stuff from them, and have always been satisfied.
                                    You should check your items, though, when you get them. I think I
                                    got some bad R-8 end mill holders from them, and just on a whim I did
                                    a runout check on them, and they were WAY off. I sent them back, they
                                    verified the problem and replaced them with perfect units. Anyway, I
                                    know I have bought stuff from them with no problems, and an occasional
                                    bad piece can happen to anybody, especially in the import lines.

                                    Jon
                                  • Chabannes Rene N Contr ASC/YCD
                                    The page for the four jaw chucks at a good price is: https://www.wttool.com/wtool/product.asp?dept%5Fid=17590&pf%5Fid=19040011p&sdept%5Fid=100%2C1460%2C17590
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Apr 5, 2002
                                      The page for the four jaw chucks at a good price is: https://www.wttool.com/wtool/product.asp?dept%5Fid=17590&pf%5Fid=19040011p&sdept%5Fid=100%2C1460%2C17590

                                      Rene

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: William Langston [mailto:wrlangstonusa@...]
                                      Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 8:10 PM
                                      To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: RE: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Looking for 4 jaw chuck


                                      Hello folks,

                                      If someone can tell me, what is the web address for
                                      this Wholesale Tools?

                                      Thanks,
                                      Bill Langston

                                      --- Chabannes Rene N Contr ASC/YCD
                                      <Rene.Chabannes@...> wrote:
                                      > Does anyone have experience with Wholesale Tools?
                                      > They have, far and away, the lowest cost 4 jaw
                                      > chucks I've seen. While I'd buy the best I could
                                      > afford, if pressed, I'd sure look at the Wholesale
                                      > Tools chucks. You need to go to the last entry
                                      > under 4 jaw lathe chucks.
                                      >
                                      > Rene
                                      >
                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: paul_probus [mailto:paul_probus@...]
                                      > Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 12:44 PM
                                      > To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Looking for 4 jaw
                                      > chuck
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Fred,
                                      >
                                      > I have been reading messages on the internet about
                                      > metalworking
                                      > machinery for about seven years now and just about
                                      > everyone is in
                                      > agreement that the factory that makes the 9x20 lathe
                                      > for Grizzly is
                                      > the same factory that makes the 9x20 for HF and Jet,
                                      > Enco, etc. The
                                      > only exception I have found is in the 7x12's. One
                                      > factory makes the
                                      > 7x12's for Griz. and others, while another factory
                                      > makes the 7x12
                                      > that seems to be only carried by Homier. Now as far
                                      > as Griz., Jet,
                                      > etc. paying for extra factory prep. I have doubts
                                      > that they actually
                                      > do and much of the discussions I have read regarding
                                      > this are pretty
                                      > much split 50/50. I have probably read the same
                                      > number of posts from
                                      > people complaining about Griz. products as from HF.
                                      > From what I
                                      > understand you should not judge the HF displays in
                                      > their stores.
                                      > There are a lot of people who have been saying that
                                      > they reluctantly
                                      > ordered a machine from HF after seeing the poor
                                      > quality display
                                      > model, to find out the one shipped is much better
                                      > quality than the
                                      > display model. Whether these people compared their
                                      > shipped machine
                                      > to the equivalent Griz. in the show room, I can't
                                      > answer, I would
                                      > guess that they have not, though.
                                      >
                                      > However, this is all discussion about machines. The
                                      > original poster
                                      > wanted to know about getting an inexpensive 4 jaw
                                      > chuck. Bison,
                                      > based on what I have read about them, are supposedly
                                      > pretty good
                                      > chucks that are inexpensive. I have read that their
                                      > 5C collet chuck
                                      > is supposed to be very high quality and rivals the
                                      > equivalent top of
                                      > the line brand (is it Royal? or Buck?) collet chuck
                                      > of similar
                                      > design. I recommended getting a Griz. 4 Jaw chuck
                                      > if he were very
                                      > strapped for cash or he could check out HF, which I
                                      > am not sure if
                                      > they sell lathe chucks, I don't have their latest or
                                      > large catalog.
                                      > I don't know how good the Griz. or HF chuck would
                                      > be, it may be as
                                      > good in quality as the Bison for all I know. If
                                      > neither one was as
                                      > good as the Bison, then he could still buy them and
                                      > use them until he
                                      > could afford the Bison or save even more for the
                                      > Buck (top o' the
                                      > line). Either way, I believe the quality of either
                                      > the Griz. or HF 4
                                      > jaw chuck would be good enough as a "temporary" and
                                      > a "starter" 4 jaw
                                      > chuck.
                                      >
                                      > I'm not saying that my information is correct, I'm
                                      > just saying that I
                                      > have done quite a bit of reading on HF, Griz. and
                                      > others' quality.
                                      >
                                      > Paul
                                      >
                                      > --- In atlas_craftsman@y..., "Fred & Liz Lusen"
                                      > <fl.lusen@v...> wrote:
                                      > > Paul,
                                      > >
                                      > > I think you have some disinformation there. No
                                      > way does Harbor
                                      > Freight
                                      > > begin to even approach the caliber of equipment
                                      > and accessories
                                      > that Grizzly
                                      > > markets. I have many pieces from Grizzly
                                      > including a milling
                                      > machine and
                                      > > also a local HF that I visit occasionally. No
                                      > comparison between
                                      > the two.
                                      > >
                                      > > Fred Lusen
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                                      > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                                      > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                                      > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                                      > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                      >
                                      >


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                                    • Fred & Liz Lusen
                                      One thing I learned a long time ago about the castings (for machines at least) is that they are all controlled by the Government Taiwan. There are 5 grades, A
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Apr 5, 2002
                                        One thing I learned a long time ago about the castings (for machines at
                                        least) is that they are all controlled by the Government Taiwan. There are
                                        5 grades, A through F. Companies like Jet, Grizzly and some others I do not
                                        know of use the best castings to start. Others like General Tool, Harbor
                                        Freight, et all use lesser grades and usually do nothing with them but
                                        assemble the machine. Jet and others also have their own quality control
                                        people at the assembly factories therefore exercising tighter control on the
                                        finished product. It is these kind of things I look for to give some
                                        measure of confidence that I will have to do little or minimal to the
                                        finished machine to satisfy myself. Of course when you look at the same
                                        machine offered by different companies you can see something (hopefully) of
                                        the quality in the price. Personally having dealt with a number of them
                                        over the years and having gotten my hands on a number of machines including
                                        having a Grizzly knee mill I think Jet is over priced. As has been said
                                        many times on this list though, you pays your money and you takes your
                                        chances.

                                        Fred

                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "Jon Elson" <elson@...>
                                        To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 12:31 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Looking for 4 jaw chuck


                                        > paul_probus wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > Fred,
                                        > >
                                        > > I have been reading messages on the internet about metalworking
                                        > > machinery for about seven years now and just about everyone is in
                                        > > agreement that the factory that makes the 9x20 lathe for Grizzly is
                                        > > the same factory that makes the 9x20 for HF and Jet, Enco, etc.
                                        >
                                        > No, I'm not sure this is true. The factory that makes the RAW CASTINGS
                                        > is certainly the same - but there is a long way between the castings
                                        > and the finished machines. We aren't used to doing business this
                                        > way in the US (or Europe). The company that has the castings made
                                        > (possibly an outside foundry) OWNS the molds, or the designs of
                                        > the molds, and noone else has access to the raw castings, with the
                                        > possible exception of someone at the foundry sneaking an extra
                                        > pour in once in a while.
                                        >
                                        > The Chinese business model apparently doesn't look like this. Somebody
                                        > makes up the molds and gets castings poured, and then peddles the
                                        > castings to large, medium and small shops. And, apparently some of
                                        > the shops are REAL small, like a guy who builds one lathe a month
                                        > on his back porch!
                                        >
                                        > The original poster
                                        >
                                        > > wanted to know about getting an inexpensive 4 jaw chuck. Bison,
                                        > > based on what I have read about them, are supposedly pretty good
                                        > > chucks that are inexpensive. I have read that their 5C collet chuck
                                        > > is supposed to be very high quality and rivals the equivalent top of
                                        > > the line brand (is it Royal? or Buck?) collet chuck of similar
                                        > > design. I recommended getting a Griz. 4 Jaw chuck if he were very
                                        > > strapped for cash or he could check out HF, which I am not sure if
                                        > > they sell lathe chucks, I don't have their latest or large catalog.
                                        > > I don't know how good the Griz. or HF chuck would be, it may be as
                                        > > good in quality as the Bison for all I know. If neither one was as
                                        > > good as the Bison, then he could still buy them and use them until he
                                        > > could afford the Bison or save even more for the Buck (top o' the
                                        > > line).
                                        >
                                        > I can't say anything abou these lines. I have had great luck with
                                        Phase-II,
                                        >
                                        > and got an 8" adjustable 3-jaw chuck from Travers, made by Phase-II.
                                        > It is EXCELLENT, the jaws are tighter than any chuck I've ever used
                                        > (but then, I've never treated myself to a NEW chuck before.)
                                        > It holds anything round with runout near the undetectable limit
                                        > without recentering the body.
                                        >
                                        > Jon
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                                        > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                                        > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                        >
                                        >
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