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Re: [atlas_craftsman] Taper attachment for Craftsman 6" 101 lathe

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  • Maxwell Sandford
    Careful work practice with an offset tailstock makes fine tapers. No taper attachment is needed. M. T. Sandford
    Message 1 of 18 , Jan 2, 2002
      Careful work practice with an offset tailstock makes fine tapers. No taper
      attachment is needed.

      M. T. Sandford
    • merlinewv
      Howdy- Does anyone know anything about a taper attachment to make Morse taper shanks for different tools for a Craftsman 101-07301 lathe. Who makes them, or
      Message 2 of 18 , Jan 2, 2002
        Howdy-

        Does anyone know anything about a taper attachment to make Morse taper
        shanks for different tools for a Craftsman 101-07301 lathe. Who makes
        them, or where can I get information about purchasing or making one.
        In the Machinint's Handbook, the dimensions for such tapers are
        listed, but all this math would be much easier with an attachment.

        In the latest Grizzly catalog, they list a milling and taper
        attachment for some of their equipment, can the Grizzly milling and
        taper equipment be adapted to my Craftsman lathe. Thanks for you
        assistance.

        merlinev@... Lakewood, Colorado
      • David R. Kuechenmeister
        I think you will be as happy making tapers by offsetting the tailstock. Just check the taper frequently until you have the tailstock adjusted to the correct
        Message 3 of 18 , Jan 2, 2002
          I think you will be as happy making tapers by offsetting the
          tailstock. Just check the taper frequently until you have the
          tailstock adjusted to the correct position. No different than what
          you would have to do with the taper attachment.

          The only difference is finding the starting point. You can do that by
          just making a calculation and offsetting the tailstock from the
          headstock with a rule. The calculation takes the taper and workpiece
          length into account. If you would like I'll look it up and post it
          later.

          Regards,
          Dave

          >Howdy-
          >
          >Does anyone know anything about a taper attachment to make Morse taper
          >shanks for different tools for a Craftsman 101-07301 lathe. Who makes
          >them, or where can I get information about purchasing or making one.
          >In the Machinint's Handbook, the dimensions for such tapers are
          >listed, but all this math would be much easier with an attachment.
          >
          >In the latest Grizzly catalog, they list a milling and taper
          >attachment for some of their equipment, can the Grizzly milling and
          >taper equipment be adapted to my Craftsman lathe. Thanks for you
          >assistance.
          >
          >merlinev@... Lakewood, Colorado
          >
          >
          >TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
          >You do this yourself by sending a message to:
          >atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

          --
          David R. Kuechenmeister mailto:k13@...
          Lawrenceville, GA
        • Maxwell Sandford
          Use a dial indicator instead of a rule. Mount it with magnetic base to read the tailstock offset, and that way you can reset the tailstock to its proper
          Message 4 of 18 , Jan 2, 2002
            Use a dial indicator instead of a rule. Mount it with magnetic base to read
            the tailstock offset, and that way you can reset the tailstock to its proper
            position when you're done cutting the taper. The advice to check the taper
            frequently while cutting is excellent. You'll likely not be exactly right
            with the offset, so when you are getting close mark a chalk-line on the
            taper, remove it and check its fit with a known good female part, and then
            replace it. Use the same lathe-dog position it was in before you removed
            it.

            The formulae and calculations are in the Craftsman lathe manual.

            M. T. Sandford



            > I think you will be as happy making tapers by offsetting the
            > tailstock. Just check the taper frequently until you have the
            > tailstock adjusted to the correct position. No different than what
            > you would have to do with the taper attachment.
            >
            > The only difference is finding the starting point. You can do that by
            > just making a calculation and offsetting the tailstock from the
            > headstock with a rule. The calculation takes the taper and workpiece
            > length into account. If you would like I'll look it up and post it
            > later.
            >
            > Regards,
            > Dave
            >
            > >Howdy-
            > >
            > >Does anyone know anything about a taper attachment to make Morse taper
            > >shanks for different tools for a Craftsman 101-07301 lathe. Who makes
            > >them, or where can I get information about purchasing or making one.
            > >In the Machinint's Handbook, the dimensions for such tapers are
            > >listed, but all this math would be much easier with an attachment.
            > >
            > >In the latest Grizzly catalog, they list a milling and taper
            > >attachment for some of their equipment, can the Grizzly milling and
            > >taper equipment be adapted to my Craftsman lathe. Thanks for you
            > >assistance.
            > >
            > >merlinev@... Lakewood, Colorado
            > >
            > >
            > >TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
            > >You do this yourself by sending a message to:
            > >atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            > --
            > David R. Kuechenmeister mailto:k13@...
            > Lawrenceville, GA
            >
            >
            > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
            > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
            > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • merlinev@AOL.com
            Howdy Thanks for responding to my post. Let me try the offset method. I was afraid that I could not get the tail stock back to the proper relation to the
            Message 5 of 18 , Jan 2, 2002
              Howdy

              Thanks for responding to my post. Let me try the offset method. I was afraid
              that I could not get the tail stock back to the proper relation to the
              headstock. I plan to build a radial engine for my homebuilt airplane, and I
              need the MT taper plus 10° on the crank shaft and the prop hub. But you have
              encouraged me to try the offset method, Again thanks.

              merlinev@... Lakewood, Colorado


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • jerdal
              There is a simple method to get them perfect, namely to use the compound and indicate on your headstock or tailstock inside taper until the compound is
              Message 6 of 18 , Jan 2, 2002
                There is a simple method to get them perfect, namely to use the compound and
                indicate on your headstock or tailstock inside taper until the compound is
                perfectly set to your taper. Then turn up a taper between centers (so you
                can pull the center and check fit easily) and check it. Adjust if required,
                but be sure it is needed before adjusting. Roughness from turning can make
                it seem incorrect.

                Once you have it right, you can make several more. You can finish the rest
                of the tool later as you need them. I suggest making several because it can
                be finicky to get right, and you may as well get use out of the setup.

                Now the 6" may be too limited in travel on the compound to do a full length
                taper, but you may be able to get enough length to fit well, and then turn a
                "bumper" of smaller diameter to allow push-out on what would be the small
                end of the taper. Or you can borrow use of a bigger lathe, maybe.

                You want to use the type indicator with a lever arm at the end, not the
                plunger type.
                Jerry

                You wrote:
                > Does anyone know anything about a taper attachment to make Morse taper
                > shanks for different tools for a Craftsman 101-07301 lathe.
              • s2bello@cs.com
                David, Would you please post the taper formula for the benefit of us newbies. Thanks, SteveB [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 18 , Jan 2, 2002
                  David, Would you please post the taper formula for the benefit of us newbies.
                  Thanks, SteveB


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • catboat15@aol.com
                  In a message dated 1/2/02 12:07:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, merlinev@AOL.com ... I made morse taper attachements for both my 6 and 12 inch Atlas by using
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jan 2, 2002
                    In a message dated 1/2/02 12:07:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, merlinev@...
                    writes:


                    > Does anyone know anything about a taper attachment to make Morse taper
                    > shanks for different tools for a Craftsman 101-07301 lathe.

                    I made morse taper attachements for both my 6 and 12 inch Atlas by using
                    tailstock setover. Start with some oversize stock and you pretty well have
                    to go by cut and try. Measure as well as you can, cut a short section of
                    taper, put a chalk line and twist in the socket. When the chalk line is
                    rubbed off the full length then go ahead and cut the full taper. Time
                    consuming, but many of us have more time than money for our hobbies. If you
                    have an existing taper you can copy just put your known taper between centers
                    and adjust set over till the taper shows the same dti reading the full
                    length. Of course your master taper has to be the same overall length as your
                    work piece.

                    John Meacham
                    High Desert of California, Palmdale, Littlerock.


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • catboat15@aol.com
                    In a message dated 1/2/02 4:07:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, merlinev@AOL.com ... There should be scribed lines on the tailstock housing to line up the centers
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jan 2, 2002
                      In a message dated 1/2/02 4:07:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, merlinev@...
                      writes:


                      > . Let me try the offset method. I was afraid
                      > that I could not get the tail stock back to the proper relation to the
                      > headstock

                      There should be scribed lines on the tailstock housing to line up the centers
                      again. Check by putting a chunk of shafting you know is of constant diam
                      between centers then use your DTI which should read the same headstock end to
                      tailstock end for final adjustements. For a quick setting bring tailstock up
                      to head stock with a center in each. Put a thin rule horizinontally between
                      the centers and pinch it lightly. Any offset in the rule will show whch way
                      to adjust the tailstock to center again.
                      John Meacham
                      High Desert of California, Palmdale, Littlerock.


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Buckshot
                      If you offset the tailstock with the internal measuring spurs of your dial indicator you will have very little trial and error. Buckshot ... From: David R.
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jan 2, 2002
                        If you offset the tailstock with the internal measuring spurs of your dial
                        indicator you will have very little trial and error.

                        Buckshot

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "David R. Kuechenmeister" <k13@...>
                        To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 6:15 PM
                        Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Taper attachment for Craftsman 6" 101 lathe


                        > I think you will be as happy making tapers by offsetting the
                        > tailstock. Just check the taper frequently until you have the
                        > tailstock adjusted to the correct position. No different than what
                        > you would have to do with the taper attachment.
                        >
                        > The only difference is finding the starting point. You can do that by
                        > just making a calculation and offsetting the tailstock from the
                        > headstock with a rule. The calculation takes the taper and workpiece
                        > length into account. If you would like I'll look it up and post it
                        > later.
                        >
                        > Regards,
                        > Dave
                        >
                        > >Howdy-
                        > >
                        > >Does anyone know anything about a taper attachment to make Morse taper
                        > >shanks for different tools for a Craftsman 101-07301 lathe. Who makes
                        > >them, or where can I get information about purchasing or making one.
                        > >In the Machinint's Handbook, the dimensions for such tapers are
                        > >listed, but all this math would be much easier with an attachment.
                        > >
                        > >In the latest Grizzly catalog, they list a milling and taper
                        > >attachment for some of their equipment, can the Grizzly milling and
                        > >taper equipment be adapted to my Craftsman lathe. Thanks for you
                        > >assistance.
                        > >
                        > >merlinev@... Lakewood, Colorado
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                        > >You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                        > >atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        > --
                        > David R. Kuechenmeister mailto:k13@...
                        > Lawrenceville, GA
                        >
                        >
                        > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                        > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                        > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • David R. Kuechenmeister
                        The best alignment tool you can make BEFORE you start fooling with the tailstock is a test bar. Turn both ends of a six inch bar to a precise diameter, say 1
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jan 3, 2002
                          The best alignment tool you can make BEFORE you start fooling with
                          the tailstock is a test bar. Turn both ends of a six inch bar to a
                          precise diameter, say 1 in, for example. Then to realign the
                          tailstock, put the bar between centers indicate off the headstock end
                          with a dial on the compound. Note the reading on the cross-slide
                          collar. Back out away from the test bar, move the cross-slide to the
                          tailstock end of the bar and move it back in to the distance
                          previously indicated on the collar. Then adjust the tailstock to zero
                          out the dial and you have a taper-free setup.

                          Have fun.
                          Dave

                          >Howdy
                          >
                          >Thanks for responding to my post. Let me try the offset method. I was afraid
                          >that I could not get the tail stock back to the proper relation to the
                          >headstock. I plan to build a radial engine for my homebuilt airplane, and I
                          >need the MT taper plus 10° on the crank shaft and the prop hub. But you have
                          >encouraged me to try the offset method, Again thanks.
                          >
                          >merlinev@... Lakewood, Colorado
                          >
                          >
                          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                          >You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                          >atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

                          --
                          David R. Kuechenmeister mailto:k13@...
                          Lawrenceville, GA
                        • Skip Evans
                          I do this just a little different. I built a holder for a dial indicator. This holder is mounted on the compound. To keep from having to make any changes to
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jan 3, 2002
                            I do this just a little different. I built a holder for a dial indicator.
                            This holder is mounted on the compound. To keep from having to make any
                            changes to the cross slide, I pull the dial indicator plunger away from the
                            stock when traversing to the other end of the test bar. My test bar is about
                            12" long and I only turned one end. I flip the test bar between centers. Now
                            that I think about it, would I be better off turning each end?


                            >From: "David R. Kuechenmeister" <k13@...>

                            >Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Taper attachment for Craftsman 6" 101 lathe
                            >Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 07:32:03 -0500
                            >
                            >The best alignment tool you can make BEFORE you start fooling with
                            >the tailstock is a test bar. Turn both ends of a six inch bar to a
                            >precise diameter, say 1 in, for example. Then to realign the
                            >tailstock, put the bar between centers indicate off the headstock end
                            >with a dial on the compound. Note the reading on the cross-slide
                            >collar. Back out away from the test bar, move the cross-slide to the
                            >tailstock end of the bar and move it back in to the distance
                            >previously indicated on the collar. Then adjust the tailstock to zero
                            >out the dial and you have a taper-free setup.
                            >
                            >Have fun.
                            >Dave
                            >

                            Skip_evans@...
                            Alvin, TX
                            http://skipevans.homestead.com

                            "It is easy to take liberty for granted, when you have never had it taken
                            from you."

                            "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to
                            do nothing."


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                          • David R. Kuechenmeister
                            I don t think you need to turn both ends. That s one of the best things about turning between centers-- the work is concentric and you can always flip it end
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jan 3, 2002
                              I don't think you need to turn both ends. That's one of the best
                              things about turning between centers-- the work is concentric and you
                              can always flip it end for end. What I actually did was to turn a
                              bar, then harden and grind it to a constant diameter. That way I can
                              run the indicator up and down the bar and watch the runout. I just
                              thought that was a little too complex for a home shop.

                              >I do this just a little different. I built a holder for a dial indicator.
                              >This holder is mounted on the compound. To keep from having to make any
                              >changes to the cross slide, I pull the dial indicator plunger away from the
                              >stock when traversing to the other end of the test bar. My test bar is about
                              >12" long and I only turned one end. I flip the test bar between centers. Now
                              >that I think about it, would I be better off turning each end?

                              Regards,
                              Dave

                              --
                              David R. Kuechenmeister mailto:k13@...
                              Lawrenceville, GA
                            • David R. Kuechenmeister
                              Sorry, I should have done this last night, but I was out shovelling the first round of snow. Quite a rare thing to do in Atlanta. The offset in inches is :
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jan 3, 2002
                                Sorry, I should have done this last night, but I was out shovelling
                                the first round of snow. Quite a rare thing to do in Atlanta.

                                The offset in inches is :

                                Offset = (tpi * Len)/2, where tpi is taper per inch and Len is
                                workpiece length in inches.

                                or

                                Offset = (tpf * Len)/24, where tpf is taper per foot and Len is as above.

                                If there is a short taper on a long workpiece, i.e. a straight shaft
                                leading into a short taper, the formula is

                                Offset = (Len * (D - d))/(2 * L_t), where Len is overall length, D is
                                the large diameter of the taper, d is the small diameter of the
                                taper, and L_t is the length of the taper.

                                There is going to be some variation in the taper actually cut, so
                                just measure often by blueing the piece and marking lines 1 in apart.
                                Then measure the taper per inch with a micrometer. You can do better
                                if you take the piece out of the lathe and measure the taper with
                                gage blocks and a couple dowel pins or a sine bar. I don't have a
                                slab at home, so if I ever get the vibration in my lathe stopped, I
                                think I'll just mike it .

                                Regards,
                                Dave Kuechenmeister

                                >David, Would you please post the taper formula for the benefit of us newbies.
                                >Thanks, SteveB
                                >
                                >
                                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                                >You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                                >atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

                                --
                                David R. Kuechenmeister mailto:k13@...
                                Lawrenceville, GA
                              • Charles Brumbelow
                                One of the Village Press publications suggested making two identical diameter buttons with center holes/cones. Squeeze the buttons between centers then tweak
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jan 3, 2002
                                  One of the Village Press publications suggested making two identical
                                  diameter buttons with center holes/cones. Squeeze the buttons between
                                  centers then tweak the tailstock until they are precisely aligned at the
                                  seam. For the six inch, one hole probably would be larger than the other
                                  Charles
                                • merlinev@AOL.com
                                  Howdy- Thanks to all who have given suggestions for creating the MT for tools. I plan to try your suggestions along with studying the Machinist s Handbook. I
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Jan 3, 2002
                                    Howdy-

                                    Thanks to all who have given suggestions for creating the MT for tools. I
                                    plan to try your suggestions along with studying the Machinist's Handbook. I
                                    received my Craftsman 6" lathe as 'gift' from a good friend, and am
                                    rebuilding. The parts I received from Mr. Herman have been exactly the
                                    correct items and the lathe is running fine now. Recently, I purchased an old
                                    Benchmaster Mill that I am rebuilding and tooling. Soon I hope to start
                                    making chips. Again thanks for all your wisdom and suggestions.

                                    merlinev@... Lakewood, Colorado
                                  • stevenhkb
                                    Turning Morse tapers is a lot of work, depending on what you need them for consider using a drill taper shank. I have gotten many used dirlls cheap or free,
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Jan 3, 2002
                                      Turning Morse tapers is a lot of work, depending on what you need
                                      them for consider using a drill taper shank. I have gotten many used
                                      dirlls cheap or free, and cut them off or turned down the end so I
                                      could silbraze an extension. The taper end is soft, the drill
                                      portion is hard. All dependes what you intend to do with the MT. MT
                                      drills sell very cheap on ebay. Steve

                                      --- In atlas_craftsman@y..., "jerdal" <jerdal@c...> wrote:
                                      > There is a simple method to get them perfect, namely to use the
                                      compound and
                                      > indicate on your headstock or tailstock inside taper until the
                                      compound is
                                      > perfectly set to your taper. Then turn up a taper between centers
                                      (so you
                                      > can pull the center and check fit easily) and check it. Adjust if
                                      required,
                                      > but be sure it is needed before adjusting. Roughness from turning
                                      can make
                                      > it seem incorrect.
                                      >
                                      > Once you have it right, you can make several more. You can finish
                                      the rest
                                      > of the tool later as you need them. I suggest making several
                                      because it can
                                      > be finicky to get right, and you may as well get use out of the
                                      setup.
                                      >
                                      > Now the 6" may be too limited in travel on the compound to do a
                                      full length
                                      > taper, but you may be able to get enough length to fit well, and
                                      then turn a
                                      > "bumper" of smaller diameter to allow push-out on what would be the
                                      small
                                      > end of the taper. Or you can borrow use of a bigger lathe, maybe.
                                      >
                                      > You want to use the type indicator with a lever arm at the end, not
                                      the
                                      > plunger type.
                                      > Jerry
                                      >
                                      > You wrote:
                                      > > Does anyone know anything about a taper attachment to make Morse
                                      taper
                                      > > shanks for different tools for a Craftsman 101-07301 lathe.
                                    • JA Swann
                                      Howdy David, I m an ex-resident of Lawrenceville myself, now back on home ground( N.E Ohio). Glad to hear (Ya ll) you folks got some of the white stuff to play
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Jan 3, 2002
                                        Howdy David,
                                        I'm an ex-resident of Lawrenceville myself, now
                                        back on home ground( N.E Ohio). Glad to hear (Ya'll)
                                        you folks got some of the white stuff to play in. My
                                        In-Laws are still in L'Ville so we get all the weather
                                        updates daily. Here we have just a tad over 14" on the
                                        ground right now...Enjoy! JA Swann


                                        --- "David R. Kuechenmeister" <k13@...>
                                        wrote:
                                        > Sorry, I should have done this last night, but I was
                                        > out shovelling
                                        > the first round of snow. Quite a rare thing to do in
                                        > Atlanta.


                                        =====
                                        "If you don't stand for something,
                                        You'll fall for anything"

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